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Giants rated 28TH in time of possession in 2015!

idinkido : 7/24/2016 7:36 am
Washington was 6TH and Cowboys 13TH ( Eagles 32). If we can get good QB protection, we will probably see greater big yardage passing plays. But as Parcels use to say winning the time of possession wins games. So BBI: What do you expect to see the Giants do to improve our time of possession? Will Johnson at FB and improved TE blocking be the difference in fixing our running game to the point where on third or fourth downs we finally are able to move the chains? Will we see more outlet passes and greater use of Vereen or Perkins? Which of our runners will be the real deal? Can our OL keep Eli healthy and effective?
Amen  
Bluesbreaker : 7/24/2016 8:35 am : link
I still want a RT we need to be able to run the damn
ball consistently or it will be more of the same 4th
quarter losses and FG's instead of TD's
Got to be able to run more effectively to have strong TOP  
Jimmy Googs : 7/24/2016 8:46 am : link
particularly on 3rd and short to keep the chains moving.

In 2015 we simply and plainly did not.

In fact, by mid-season Giants were throwing on 3rd/Short more than I have ever seen them in recent memory...

Time of possession  
Doomster : 7/24/2016 9:06 am : link
is not about just the offense, it's also about the defense getting off the field...
RE: Time of possession  
PatersonPlank : 7/24/2016 9:34 am : link
In comment 13043215 Doomster said:
Quote:
is not about just the offense, it's also about the defense getting off the field...


I agree with this 100%. Time and time again the Giants offense would only get 1 chance in a quarter of football. They needed to go 4-4 on time consuming drives. In my view this is a combination of lousy defense and lack of a real running game (one where we could run when we had too). Our running game was only effective when they D was looking for a pass.
RE: Time of possession  
Klaatu : 7/24/2016 9:38 am : link
In comment 13043215 Doomster said:
Quote:
is not about just the offense, it's also about the defense getting off the field...


We had the worst of both worlds last year. Hooray for our side!
RE: Time of possession  
SGMen : 7/24/2016 9:43 am : link
In comment 13043215 Doomster said:
Quote:
is not about just the offense, it's also about the defense getting off the field...
Exactly!

I see our run defense improving by leaps and bounds. The starting DL has four "above average" run defenders. SLB Kennard is an above average run defender. MLB Brinkley, whom I now believe will be the opening day 1st and 2nd down starter, is solid against the run but not the pass. WLB Robinson is fast and I believe an upgrade over JT Thomas and Casillas. Robinson will move to MLB on 3rd downs or clear cut passing downs. I actually see us sort of rotating linebackers a bit more than we'd probably like and Goodson will see time as the season progresses.

The point: our talent level for run defense is much much better this year than last year. At least on paper. We will also play S L. Collins closer to the LOS along with S N. Behre and both of them are beasts tackling.

Next, we will run the ball better. The last four games in 2015 we ran effectively and that will carry over along with improved talent and experience. We now have a real FB in Johnson who will help the ground game immensely. I believe RG Jerry worked harder this off-season than any lineman may have as he went to AZ to an OL camp to master technique.

I believe TE Tye improved as the season went in the blocking and receiving departments and he helps the ground game right off the bat plus he'll catch those short passes and be Eli's safety valve. I look for Tye to have a big year.

I'm going to guess we finish between 10 to 15 in terms of time of possession this year. I'm thinking our own run game finishes in the late teens. All of this is contingent on our staying fairly healthy, of course, and some luck too. :)
RE: Time of possession  
Beer Man : 7/24/2016 10:11 am : link
In comment 13043215 Doomster said:
Quote:
is not about just the offense, it's also about the defense getting off the field...
It all starts with the running game. And since the Giants did nothing to improve the right side of the O-line, I would not expect a big improvement to that.
It's Beckham's fault  
dune69 : 7/24/2016 10:11 am : link
he scores too quickly!
The D couldn't get off the field  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 10:15 am : link
Not surprising
A good stat  
Mark from Jersey : 7/24/2016 10:43 am : link
to complement this one would be 3 & out percentages or drives under 6 plays.

But we all know the defense had a hard time getting off the field last year. How many 3rd and longs were converted against this team last year? Seemed like this occurred too often.
RE: Time of possession  
BigBlueinChicago : 7/24/2016 10:47 am : link
In comment 13043215 Doomster said:
Quote:
is not about just the offense, it's also about the defense getting off the field...


But the last two years, we all knew the Giants defense stunk, so it was unrealistic to ask them to make plays and stops they were incapable of making.

This is why it was on the offense (particularly last year) to shield the defense from its awfulness and put games away when the had the chance to and extend drives to allow them to breathe.

Now they have better players this season. But even now, I still want to shield them. I want to allow the key guys on the defensive line to play 50-60 snaps, than 65 to 75.
I expect to see  
Vegas Steve : 7/24/2016 10:59 am : link
A changing of the guard at TE . In order to protect Newhouse, a blocking TE with some short area receiving skill will be added to the roster.

Unless Larry Donnel blocking skills have vastly improved, which is not likely, I believe one of the youngsters,
La Cross or RM will win Larry's roster spot.

With a solid in line blocker added to the line our running game and pass protection will improve.

I believe that this is the Giants brain trusts master plan. Which would explain why we have not signed a RT or any Tackle so far this off season
RE: A good stat  
SGMen : 7/24/2016 11:00 am : link
In comment 13043270 Mark from Jersey said:
Quote:
to complement this one would be 3 & out percentages or drives under 6 plays.

But we all know the defense had a hard time getting off the field last year. How many 3rd and longs were converted against this team last year? Seemed like this occurred too often.
We had no pass rush and no "middle of the field pass defenders of merit" - it was wide open and teams knew it and attacked. I believe we had the NFL's worst pass defense last year, by far. I'm not talking about stats because they don't tell the whole story always. I'm talking about just watching the games and how often we seemed to get gouged - wide open gouged.

I believe if we had the "normal or average" amount of injuries last year we'd have won the weak NFC East division. I mean, you can say that about Dallas too since Romo and Bryant and Scandrick went down for them.

My point: we lost 6 games last year in the last 2 minutes because our defense was horrible and gassed late. We have upgraded at many positions; we have guys returning especially in the secondary; and, I believe we had a heck of a draft. I just feel really good about this draft. If we win 4 of those six games this year we are 10-6 and likely division champs.

But honestly, I think we could be 11-5 and super solid. It is contingent on our staying healthy and getting healthy (Cruz, Hankins, Jackson, Behre, Donnell, etc.). Get out of camp healthy and start the season 3-0 against the NFC. The trips to MN and Green Bay will not be easy but I'm hoping we win at least one of them. A good start and a strong finish with oour rookie class taking more and more snaps will go a long way in our making a run this year.
I was amazed last season,  
Doomster : 7/24/2016 11:08 am : link
I expect to see
Vegas Steve : 10:59 am : link : reply
A changing of the guard at TE . In order to protect Newhouse, a blocking TE with some short area receiving skill will be added to the roster.

Unless Larry Donnel blocking skills have vastly improved, which is not likely, I believe one of the youngsters,
La Cross or RM will win Larry's roster spot.

With a solid in line blocker added to the line our running game and pass protection will improve.

I believe that this is the Giants brain trusts master plan. Which would explain why we have not signed a RT or any Tackle so far this off season



that we did not see more chip blocks from the TE position on the right side of the line.....hell, the opposition has been doing that to us for years...we rush four, their front 5 plus a TE, and even a RB chips a block before going out into the flat for a pass....four against 6 or 7? And you wonder why we don't have more sacks? Because we don't have linebackers and DB's who are quick enough and strong enough to be factors in the blitz.....how many times have we seen guys blitz, and get neutralized by a running back?
We need to improve our TOP, but  
Bramton1 : 7/24/2016 11:49 am : link
quoting Parcells here is dangerous. Totally different offensive schemes. The current team would use the run to open up the passing game. Parcells used the run to set up more runs. You'll never see the kind of TOP that Parcells was famous for.
Not a big surprise.  
TC : 7/24/2016 11:53 am : link
If the defense can't get off the field and the offense has trouble converting 3rd downs, this is likely to happen.

But there are reasons to hope for better, at least on the defensive side of the ball.
We ranked 28th because  
est1986 : 7/24/2016 12:01 pm : link
We got jack shit out of our run game and our defense was terrible on third down. We did nothing at all to improve the run game and we spent 200 million on JPP and OV to rush the passer on 3rd down, Janoris Jenkins to man cover and create turnovers and Damon Harrison to stuff the run early putting us in better spots on third down. So hopefully we can at the very least crack the top 15 in TOP this season, I think that's optimistic.
I still cannot believe  
mrvax : 7/24/2016 12:06 pm : link
Chip Kelly claimed that TOP was a totally meaningless stat. Eagles finished 32nd. Ask his players if he is correct. TOP is very important in many facets of the game.
...  
christian : 7/24/2016 12:10 pm : link
If the rumblings are true and Macadoo has a more traditional WCO in the cards, Vareen is a huge key to more TOP.
I think  
Metnut : 7/24/2016 12:11 pm : link
TOP is a pretty overrated stat and doesn't really correlate to winning more football games. I'm much more concerned about the amount of points per possession the giants offense scores and the amount of points per possession the giants defense gives up.

Denver was 21st in time of possession last year and seemed to do fine and it didn't affect their defense. New England's time of possession is below the league average routinely and they contend for a super bowl every year.
Inconsistent running game and poor defense  
UberAlias : 7/24/2016 12:22 pm : link
especially inability to stop the run, are the problem. Weak TOP is merely the symptom.
RE: I think  
SGMen : 7/24/2016 12:44 pm : link
In comment 13043337 Metnut said:
Quote:
TOP is a pretty overrated stat and doesn't really correlate to winning more football games. I'm much more concerned about the amount of points per possession the giants offense scores and the amount of points per possession the giants defense gives up.

Denver was 21st in time of possession last year and seemed to do fine and it didn't affect their defense. New England's time of possession is below the league average routinely and they contend for a super bowl every year.
Time of possession is a bit over-rated. But the greater your time of possession the greater your offensive opportunities. You just have to score TD's and not get FG's. You win in the NFL by outscoring your opponent and however that is done it is done: quick deep strikes are best actually. Over and done TD!

If our running game is "middle of the pack" as I suspect it will be that is more than enough for Eli to work with. We just have to score TD's in the redzone this year and I think with FB Johnson leading the way we'll be better in short yardage than before.

I also think TE Tye will be a redzone threat along with WR's Victor Cruz and Sheppard, both guys who can cut on a dime and be open. Last, RB Vereen is now year #2 in this offense and I have a feeling he will catch more balls and have more TD's this year, a lot more TD's.

Doomster w the key point  
area junc : 7/24/2016 12:59 pm : link
Whats made the giants borderline unwatchable the last 4 years is a historically bad defense which u knew going into every game left our O w 0% margin for error. Non-competitive in any real sense. An ugly, hopeless feeling giants fans know all too well.

For the 1st time since the end of 2011 we appear to have a defense. That should take the offense to another level without the pressure to score every touch
No shocker. Soft O-Line that's atrocious in run blocking.  
Emlen'sGremlins : 7/24/2016 1:02 pm : link
Plus McAdoo's play calling left a lot to be desired when trying to close out games.
Good point about defense not being able to get off the field!  
idinkido : 7/24/2016 1:57 pm : link
TOP is important because if you keep the ball the opposing defense often ends up tired and plays sloppy. Second, only one team holds the ball and keeping it away from the opposing team often gets them out of their rhythm and limits their play calling especially if they are trailing.
RE: Doomster w the key point  
SGMen : 7/24/2016 2:28 pm : link
In comment 13043367 area junc said:
Quote:
Whats made the giants borderline unwatchable the last 4 years is a historically bad defense which u knew going into every game left our O w 0% margin for error. Non-competitive in any real sense. An ugly, hopeless feeling giants fans know all too well.

For the 1st time since the end of 2011 we appear to have a defense. That should take the offense to another level without the pressure to score every touch
Bad drafting and an ungodly amount of injuries led to our poor defenses...and less than results. We lost 6 game last year in the last 2 minutes because our tired defense couldn't hold anyone from scoring. The middle of the field was always wide open. We couldn't touch a QB late in a game.

I too believe this year's defense will be much improved so long as we get and stay healthy. The starting four DL's plus our starting CB's and S L. Collins at the LOS will carry this defense if those guys all stay healthy. You can lose a guy like say MLB Brinkley, or LB Casillas but you can't lose the guys I listed without a dropoff in talent.

If this defense stays healthy and the DL has an effective rotation with OWA, Wynn, Bromley and Nix we will have a good season on defense. We will be top notch against the run and good enough against the pass. But we must stay healthy because depth isn't there.
RE: I still cannot believe  
BigBlueinChicago : 7/24/2016 4:55 pm : link
In comment 13043330 mrvax said:
Quote:
Chip Kelly claimed that TOP was a totally meaningless stat. Eagles finished 32nd. Ask his players if he is correct. TOP is very important in many facets of the game.


TOP is meaningless if you consistently score TD's when you have possession on offense.

But if you don't score TD's, what happens? You put your defense (if they are poor) in a bad situation. You know they are bad and the opposing offense can move the ball on you and not only limit your possessions, but also put points on the board.

I can understand the theory. Unlike college where you can tilt the talent gap in your favor, in the NFL teams are too even in talent to have that work to the extent he would like.
RE: No shocker. Soft O-Line that's atrocious in run blocking.  
BigBlueinChicago : 7/24/2016 5:04 pm : link
In comment 13043371 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
Plus McAdoo's play calling left a lot to be desired when trying to close out games.


You can't creatively play call against atrocious run blocking.

If you know your offensive line when it is 3rd and less than 3 yards can't run the ball and you have to put it in the air, that is a problem that plays right into the hands of the defense.

It's like playing with one arm tied behind you going in.

The defense knows you're more than likely not going to run because you stink at it and so they can put their resources into pass rushing or coverage.

The end result is what you have seen the last few years. 3rd down failures when it comes to short yardage and bigger than that, red zone failures because the space is so clogged up down there inside the 20 with defenders that it's hard to make plays without a threat of a positive run.
We need to be in more manageable 3rd downs  
David in LA : 7/24/2016 5:13 pm : link
Hopefully, Will Johnson gives us a boost, John Jerry's offseason work pays dividends, one of our TE's emerges in the run blocking department, and someone like Bobby Hart shows enough in camp to be an upgrade from Newhouse. If Solari can get Flowers to clean up his technique, I think we will show to have a solid ground attack.
RE: We need to be in more manageable 3rd downs  
SGMen : 7/24/2016 5:28 pm : link
In comment 13043524 David in LA said:
Quote:
Hopefully, Will Johnson gives us a boost, John Jerry's offseason work pays dividends, one of our TE's emerges in the run blocking department, and someone like Bobby Hart shows enough in camp to be an upgrade from Newhouse. If Solari can get Flowers to clean up his technique, I think we will show to have a solid ground attack.
I'm hopeful for RG / RT Bobby Hart, that he progresses and challenges. But Newhouse is a veteran with starting experience and he can pass protect well enough. I have high hopes Hart will challenge enough this year that we know we have our RT of the future.
I'm not as down on Newhouse as most of this board  
David in LA : 7/24/2016 5:35 pm : link
but I think he'd be solid depth/insurance as a backup swing tackle. If Hart proves to be the better player, and that slides Newhouse to backup, I think our line gets better and deeper. I can't wait for the camp reports to see how the position battles shake out this summer.
RE: I'm not as down on Newhouse as most of this board  
SGMen : 7/24/2016 5:42 pm : link
In comment 13043534 David in LA said:
Quote:
but I think he'd be solid depth/insurance as a backup swing tackle. If Hart proves to be the better player, and that slides Newhouse to backup, I think our line gets better and deeper. I can't wait for the camp reports to see how the position battles shake out this summer.
I'm with you there, all the way. Hart could become the short yardage OT type, who knows, but you have to hope we found a gem.
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