The guy has a brilliant defensive mind - comes from an impeccable coaching tree - has demonstrated past brilliance as a DC - and now has a candy jar with some players in it to help him.
like most coaches, Spags can be effective if the DL stays healthy and he's able to run his scheme.
And like most coaches, he will be ineffective if there are a lot of injuries and he has to try and cover them up by playing people out of position or will lack the depth needed to have a consistent pass rush.
He has minimal excuses this year, and in 2007 he had three beasts to unleash which was SO much fun to watch.
I've said in previous posts, I am optimistic this year more than in the past couple because we were horrific defensively last year and have no where to go this year but UP.
Offensively I think we will be extremely good.
Spags 2008 Giants Defense held opposing offenses to Â
Personality and "prickness" aside, I wish we could have gone after Schwartz, but perhaps McAdoo didn't want to upset whatever continuity we might have had, in this, his rookie campaign..
least of my worries with the additions we made in the off
season and the Draft all we need is to stay relatively
healthy and I think this defense has the potential to
lead the league in creating turnovers . Easily become a
top ten defense .
We can then compete with Seattle and Carolina two teams
i fear the most if we can get into the post season .
It's only the staring front four. OO and Bromley, the top two rotational DL, have a shitload to prove. I The DL is hardly "loaded" so far as depth in concerned.
Very, very few coaches do it without players and health.
Hopefully this year he gets the health. They have players who can get to the QB and stop the run. They will be so much more athletic up the middle w/o Unga, Dahl and Merriweather and with Collins at his natural position. They are faster in the secondary.
It is all about the pass rush
Yeah, I believe I'll wait and see how his defense does this year. Â
It may take them a little while to gel, but if they can stay relatively healthy they should do very well with Spags at the helm. If they crash and burn, it will be all on him.
Not sure how you can criticize Spags for last year Â
Good coaches can scheme around weakness. However, if you look at the Giant's defense last year, with injuries, and it's tough to conclude that any level of the defense - d-line, lbs, corners, safeties - was even average. Without at least one area of strength, you are just scheming weakness to weakness. This year, hopefully the d-line and corners are an area of strength and lbs and safeties are ascending. If so then you can really evaluate his work.
Defense that played with the heart of last year over a Perry Fewell defense. I always felt like last year we had guys near the guy with ball in his hand. It was certainly not pretty,
I think his scheme is better with the right players, which we went out and got. Should be a vast improvement this year.
All be it with next to zero talent to work with. With that said IMO this is a prove it or loss it year for him, and deservingly so. With McAdoo being moved up I believe the Mara’s had a big influence keeping him on to assist in the transition and both having some familiarity with one another.
He had zero chance with the talent last year but with the money spent and talent brought in he has to win at least for his sake. You cannot be fired from two coordinator positions and a HC position and expect another chance. I believe the D will be light years better than last year but that’s not saying a lot. The D needs to win a few games IMO and not loss any like last year for security.
He has tools this year unlike last and I believe he will use them well.
I Hope
I gave him a pass last year much like I gave Fewell one in 2012 and 2014 because the talent level was simply not sufficient to field a strong defense. Between injuries and what we went into the season with, no one was getting good play out of those units.
This year, I feel we have the personnel to field a quality defense so now the onus is on Spagnuolo to get them playing up to par. I think he will.
Not just bad, historically bad. With two different teams. And it's not like he's the first DC to work with less than ideal talent. Anybody can look good when coaching a team loaded with talent, but it's the guys who know how to work around meager talent and injuries who earn their paycheck. So, yeah, he has a lot to prove.
The 2008 defense was good but I think they also benefited from a dominant ball control offense that never turned it over.
They were better than the 2014 Cowboys defense but that defense benefited the same way and the offense made them look a bit better than they actually were.
If the NY Giants Offense is ranked between 5th and 8th this year
and the NY Giants Defense is ranked anywhere in the top 10 -- then the Giants are not only going to the playoffs -- they are going to make some noise in the playoffs
If the NY Giants Offense is ranked between 5th and 8th this year
and the NY Giants Defense is ranked anywhere in the top 10 -- then the Giants are not only going to the playoffs -- they are going to make some noise in the playoffs
depends on what teams they can beat. The big challenge with this team and also the record idea...is that for the last 4 seasons this team cannot beat any upper tier competition. You do not belong or succeed in the postseason unless you can do it. Will require a team effort and less talk and bravado. A quiet team that goes about their business of beating opponents on their schedule and improving will work wonders toward that goal, not talk...
Injuries late and Plax / Pierce's miscue with the gun cost the Giants the 2008 possible SB win. The first 12 or so games of 2008 the Giants were clearly the NFL's best team, no argument from anyone I'd think. But they unraveled with injuries. Losing Osi didn't help either.
Many wanted Coughlin to retire with Spags as HC when he went to the Rams. He was revered.
Can you blame us? When he went to the Rams he had been having a lot of success; That was before he strung together several mediocre seasons. He has a lot to prove at this point.
There are also many who refuse to place any blame on Spags. It has been 7 years of excuses.
We have gotten bludgeoned - bludgeoned - by almost every good team we've played the last 4 years. Look what MIN did to us last year. Lots to prove before we earn the right to be called contenders
show me. It's been almost 10 years since he's produced Â
agreed. Lou, legit depth in the cap era NFL is very infrequent, and giants in particular are still making up ground from multiple poor drafts.
Without a doubt, just about every team has depth issues in MULTIPLE spots. If you truly analyzed every NFC East team, you'd see all have issues and health is the key. Dallas went 12-4 in 2014 because they stayed extremely healthy overall. They sucked in 2015 because Romo, Bryant and Scandrick - all very key guys, were hurt.
So long as Eli, OBJ, Flowers, Pugh, Richburg stay healthy on offense (irreplaceable) and the DLine plus CB's stay healthy on defense we'll be OK. That is the core, base key list of guys that we just can't lose.
If Spagnuolo is brilliant (and I have no idea whether he is or not)... Â
...his brilliance seems to have gone unappreciated for a very long time. He languished as a position coach in the backwaters of northeastern college football for about fifteen years before getting his first shot in the NFL. Even after he had spent eight seasons in Philly with Reid and Johnson, I don't recall much buzz about him. Was anyone else pursuing him in 2007?
I think one thing is clear about Steve Spagnuolo: he can't transcend a lack of talent. If he doesn't have good players, his defense will be horrible. So in that context, the answer to the OP's question is "no". On the other hand, I have reasonable faith in Spagnuolo's ability to get good results from a good, healthy roster. I guess that's faint praise (I might have said the same of Perry Fewell), but maybe this year not screwing up will be good enough on defense.
RE: If Spagnuolo is brilliant (and I have no idea whether he is or not)... Â
...his brilliance seems to have gone unappreciated for a very long time. He languished as a position coach in the backwaters of northeastern college football for about fifteen years before getting his first shot in the NFL. Even after he had spent eight seasons in Philly with Reid and Johnson, I don't recall much buzz about him. Was anyone else pursuing him in 2007?
I think one thing is clear about Steve Spagnuolo: he can't transcend a lack of talent. If he doesn't have good players, his defense will be horrible. So in that context, the answer to the OP's question is "no". On the other hand, I have reasonable faith in Spagnuolo's ability to get good results from a good, healthy roster. I guess that's faint praise (I might have said the same of Perry Fewell), but maybe this year not screwing up will be good enough on defense.
Iirc, the Vikes
I think its pretty sad and telling that people have to go back almost Â
10 years to support his defensive coaching abilities. For the past 9 years his defenses have not just been bad, they have set historically bad records. I am rooting for him. He really has no excuses this year. We have basically 7 or 8 new starters (counting getting Hankins, JPP, and Kennard back from the beginning).
Lets see what he does. I am rooting for him but I would go so far as to say I believe in him.
RE: I think its pretty sad and telling that people have to go back almost Â
10 years to support his defensive coaching abilities. For the past 9 years his defenses have not just been bad, they have set historically bad records. I am rooting for him. He really has no excuses this year. We have basically 7 or 8 new starters (counting getting Hankins, JPP, and Kennard back from the beginning).
Lets see what he does. I am rooting for him but I would go so far as to say I believe in him.
As I look at Spags, he is a simple read: when the team has talent he excels and when it doesn't he sucks
The historically bad NY Giants of 2015 had limited talent and many injuries (Hankins, OWA, Ayers, Prince, Behre, Jackson, JT Thomas, Beason, JPP, etc.) as well as age with DT Jenkins, S Meriweather.
This year Spags has no excuses. This assumes we stay relatively healthy, of course. Spags also really need for Apple, Goodson, Thompson to develop and make an impact as the season moves along. I really like all three to be factors by season's end when we make our playoff run.
Finally, the youth (year 1, 2 and 3) have to develop. We can't have "scholarship" backups, guys who are on the team because they are bodies and we need them and have no options. That would suck. So DT Bromley, DE OWA, DE Wynn (improved or not?), S Behre, S Collins, S Jackson must all iprove and show they belong in the NFL as starter capable.
like most coaches, Spags can be effective if the DL stays healthy and he's able to run his scheme.
And like most coaches, he will be ineffective if there are a lot of injuries and he has to try and cover them up by playing people out of position or will lack the depth needed to have a consistent pass rush.
Even after he had spent eight seasons in Philly with Reid and Johnson, I don't recall much buzz about him. Was anyone else pursuing him in 2007?
Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Iirc, the Vikes
Childress inquired about Spagnuolo in 2006, but the Eagles said no and the Vikes hired Tomlin. In 2007, Coughlin hired Spagnuolo before Minnesota could pursue him as a replacement for Tomlin, who landed the Pittsburgh job the same day. Timing aside, though, you're right: there was some interest elsewhere.
That said, Minnesota's interest doesn't say much about Spagnuolo's League-wide reputation. He and Childress had worked together under Reid the previous seven years. It does confirm that he was well-regarded on the Philly staff, which is worth something. BTW, that's why Spags wasn't allowed to interview in 2006, when it looked as though Johnson might leave and a replacement could be needed.
JonC -- come on -- the team of 2008 was a dominant team until the last part of the season
And like most coaches, he will be ineffective if there are a lot of injuries and he has to try and cover them up by playing people out of position or will lack the depth needed to have a consistent pass rush.
If 2007 was a blip then what was 2008 when his defense played better with no Strahan?
I've said in previous posts, I am optimistic this year more than in the past couple because we were horrific defensively last year and have no where to go this year but UP.
Offensively I think we will be extremely good.
correction 18 points per game
sorry 42 sacks and 17 interceptions
I'm having calculator problems
season and the Draft all we need is to stay relatively
healthy and I think this defense has the potential to
lead the league in creating turnovers . Easily become a
top ten defense .
We can then compete with Seattle and Carolina two teams
i fear the most if we can get into the post season .
Agree the starters look great, but depth?
Hopefully this year he gets the health. They have players who can get to the QB and stop the run. They will be so much more athletic up the middle w/o Unga, Dahl and Merriweather and with Collins at his natural position. They are faster in the secondary.
It is all about the pass rush
I think his scheme is better with the right players, which we went out and got. Should be a vast improvement this year.
He had zero chance with the talent last year but with the money spent and talent brought in he has to win at least for his sake. You cannot be fired from two coordinator positions and a HC position and expect another chance. I believe the D will be light years better than last year but that’s not saying a lot. The D needs to win a few games IMO and not loss any like last year for security.
He has tools this year unlike last and I believe he will use them well.
I Hope
This year, I feel we have the personnel to field a quality defense so now the onus is on Spagnuolo to get them playing up to par. I think he will.
They were better than the 2014 Cowboys defense but that defense benefited the same way and the offense made them look a bit better than they actually were.
Link - ( New Window )
If the NY Giants Offense is ranked between 5th and 8th this year
and the NY Giants Defense is ranked anywhere in the top 10 -- then the Giants are not only going to the playoffs -- they are going to make some noise in the playoffs
If the NY Giants Offense is ranked between 5th and 8th this year
and the NY Giants Defense is ranked anywhere in the top 10 -- then the Giants are not only going to the playoffs -- they are going to make some noise in the playoffs
depends on what teams they can beat. The big challenge with this team and also the record idea...is that for the last 4 seasons this team cannot beat any upper tier competition. You do not belong or succeed in the postseason unless you can do it. Will require a team effort and less talk and bravado. A quiet team that goes about their business of beating opponents on their schedule and improving will work wonders toward that goal, not talk...
Can you blame us? When he went to the Rams he had been having a lot of success; That was before he strung together several mediocre seasons. He has a lot to prove at this point.
There are also many who refuse to place any blame on Spags. It has been 7 years of excuses.
Do you believe this is one of the creepiest videos ever made?
So long as Eli, OBJ, Flowers, Pugh, Richburg stay healthy on offense (irreplaceable) and the DLine plus CB's stay healthy on defense we'll be OK. That is the core, base key list of guys that we just can't lose.
I think one thing is clear about Steve Spagnuolo: he can't transcend a lack of talent. If he doesn't have good players, his defense will be horrible. So in that context, the answer to the OP's question is "no". On the other hand, I have reasonable faith in Spagnuolo's ability to get good results from a good, healthy roster. I guess that's faint praise (I might have said the same of Perry Fewell), but maybe this year not screwing up will be good enough on defense.
I think one thing is clear about Steve Spagnuolo: he can't transcend a lack of talent. If he doesn't have good players, his defense will be horrible. So in that context, the answer to the OP's question is "no". On the other hand, I have reasonable faith in Spagnuolo's ability to get good results from a good, healthy roster. I guess that's faint praise (I might have said the same of Perry Fewell), but maybe this year not screwing up will be good enough on defense.
Iirc, the Vikes
Lets see what he does. I am rooting for him but I would go so far as to say I believe in him.
Lets see what he does. I am rooting for him but I would go so far as to say I believe in him.
The historically bad NY Giants of 2015 had limited talent and many injuries (Hankins, OWA, Ayers, Prince, Behre, Jackson, JT Thomas, Beason, JPP, etc.) as well as age with DT Jenkins, S Meriweather.
This year Spags has no excuses. This assumes we stay relatively healthy, of course. Spags also really need for Apple, Goodson, Thompson to develop and make an impact as the season moves along. I really like all three to be factors by season's end when we make our playoff run.
Finally, the youth (year 1, 2 and 3) have to develop. We can't have "scholarship" backups, guys who are on the team because they are bodies and we need them and have no options. That would suck. So DT Bromley, DE OWA, DE Wynn (improved or not?), S Behre, S Collins, S Jackson must all iprove and show they belong in the NFL as starter capable.
And like most coaches, he will be ineffective if there are a lot of injuries and he has to try and cover them up by playing people out of position or will lack the depth needed to have a consistent pass rush.
well said sir
Big Blue '56 said:
Childress inquired about Spagnuolo in 2006, but the Eagles said no and the Vikes hired Tomlin. In 2007, Coughlin hired Spagnuolo before Minnesota could pursue him as a replacement for Tomlin, who landed the Pittsburgh job the same day. Timing aside, though, you're right: there was some interest elsewhere.
That said, Minnesota's interest doesn't say much about Spagnuolo's League-wide reputation. He and Childress had worked together under Reid the previous seven years. It does confirm that he was well-regarded on the Philly staff, which is worth something. BTW, that's why Spags wasn't allowed to interview in 2006, when it looked as though Johnson might leave and a replacement could be needed.