How do these new prospects compare to those that the Yankees gave up to trade for Chapman. The Yankees sent the Reds Rookie Davis, Eric Jagielo, Tony Renda and Caleb Cotham.
though Rojas tweeted that they're getting Cease and Pierce Johnson and no McKinney. Crawford seems more plausible. He's a speed-first CF and a prospect, but he's not a premium one by any means.
Hope they drop a couple of games in Houston so the sale continues. It's sad to watch Girardi manage these games like Game 7 of the World Series so Hal can cling to his hope of selling a few extra tickets in August and September.
RE: Rashad Crawford is the other player, supposedly...
though Rojas tweeted that they're getting Cease and Pierce Johnson and no McKinney. Crawford seems more plausible. He's a speed-first CF and a prospect, but he's not a premium one by any means.
That's the exact package a fake Rosenthal account posted so Rojas may have been caught stealing fake info lol
The Yankees are on the verge of turning a quartet of essentially non-prospects from seven months ago into one of the most valuable young assets in the prospect world in Torres, a pitcher whos had success for them in the past in Adam Warren, another legitimate major league prospect in Billy McKinney, and more. It looks like the kind of return we mightve expected for two-and-a-half reasonably priced years of Miller. Its the kind of return that forces us to once again re-evaluate our perception of a relievers trade value. The kind of return that forces a club like the Royals to think long and hard about selling what theyve got at the back-end of their bullpen, and has to make the Yankees wonder what they could get for their lefty with real trade value. Even considering the possibility of the suspension that loomed over Chapman and suppressed his trade value in the offseason, the difference between what it cost the Yankees to acquire Chapman and what theyre about to receive for him is both staggering and puzzling.
RE: Torres - BA's #27 prospect on the midseason top 100
The Yankes would be insane not to keep shopping Miller, who's the better pitcher right now and under a reasonable contract for two more seasons. They might really bring back a king's ransom for him.
The Yankes would be insane not to keep shopping Miller, who's the better pitcher right now and under a reasonable contract for two more seasons. They might really bring back a king's ransom for him.
And the Indians, Nats and Rangers with their loaded farms are pulling up the trucks...
don't think that Sherman suggested package lands Chris Sale
"If so, the Yankees might find that teams such as the Red Sox and Dodgers have more prospects. But if the Yankees are indeed getting shortstop phenom Gleyber Torres as the key to the Chapman deal from the Cubs, does offering the White Sox a package headed by Torres or Jorge Mateo, Gary Sanchez or Aaron Judge and Luis Severino or James Kaprielian at least get them in the game?"
They already reportedly turned down Gallo/Profar and another unnamed "top" prospect with the White Sox insisting on Mazara
what the Yankees did here. As others have said, excellent asset management across the two trades.
It was a lot of fun watching Chapman. And it looks like the door is still open for a return next season. Wouldn't have to give up the draft pick either to sign him. Cubs taking a big risk.
I'm sure they want to see how the rest of the week goes, but they've got to explore every possible deal for Miller. The RP market is officially insane.
He'll be 30 by the time the Yankees are real contenders again, and he's apparently a head case to boot.
What the Yankees can do with these trades (assuming Beltran and Miller and others go too) is build an excellent young nucleus again, one that will contend for a long time.
The price Miller will command will be huge. The Indians are almost as starved for a championship as the Cubs, and they have a loaded system. Think they're not going to feel compelled to bite the bullet for a relief ace as the potential final piece for a title team?
He'll be 30 by the time the Yankees are real contenders again, and he's apparently a head case to boot.
What the Yankees can do with these trades (assuming Beltran and Miller and others go too) is build an excellent young nucleus again, one that will contend for a long time.
He'll be 30 by the time the Yankees are real contenders again, and he's apparently a head case to boot.
What the Yankees can do with these trades (assuming Beltran and Miller and others go too) is build an excellent young nucleus again, one that will contend for a long time.
The Yankees only where 1 road and 1 home uniform. Nothing to worry about :-)
but seriously, I wouldn't trade prospects for a 30 yr old pitcher
Certainly makes the risk of that happening increase for one thing. For another, what's the point of accumulating assets just to send the best of them away for a guy who isn't going to turn this franchise around by himself?
RE: RE: but seriously, I wouldn't trade prospects for a 30 yr old pitcher
Tampa already has a logjam at SS with Mateo, Avelino, and Estrada already splitting time between 2B/SS and Trenton has Wade and Culver. Granted only Mateo is on Torres' level as a prospect, but the others (aside from Culver) still have some potential.
Yankeesource @YankeeSource 11m11 minutes ago
What would be even crazier is if Chapman comes back to the Yankees so in essence they would have traded just Brendan Ryan.
If they signed Chapman as an FA, they would have traded:
Brendan Ryan, Eric Jagielo, Rookie Davis, Tony Renda, and Caleb Cotham for....
Gleyber Torres, Starlin Castro, Billy McKinney and Rashad Crawford.
he's under contract affordably for 3 more years after this year and can be dealt at any time during that those three years for possibly even better prospects.
It's hard to get legit front of the rotation talent without paying a ton in FA unless you grow it. this could be a rare opportunity to get that at a discount (one the price comes down).
The Yankees have resources to turn things around quicker than most teams.
the crazy factor is the only thing that scares me about him - though I can't say I've heard a history of it, this incident was the first one I heard about - but admittedly haven't been paying attention.
but had to go ALL In.
And their farm is prospect rich, and lots of roster talent is young, sans pitching.
I think Torres is #27, McKinney has all the makings of a MLr.
RE: RE: RE: but seriously, I wouldn't trade prospects for a 30 yr old pitcher
But the Yankees probably won't be ready to do much more than hope for a wild card for 2-3 more years.
Greg,
I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying "I can't see the Yankees trading their chips for a 30 year old" isn't really fair. He has 2.5 seasons before he's a 30 year old pitcher.
I suspect they'll use someone like Wade as a chip to package with someone else like Beltran.
Sorry, should've specified location, not position. I meant will Torres start at Tampa or go straight to Trenton? And what other moves with the aforementioned group will also happen?
but had to go ALL In.
And their farm is prospect rich, and lots of roster talent is young, sans pitching.
I think Torres is #27, McKinney has all the makings of a MLr.
he played this Chapman situation well from the start. When they got him for 10 cents on the dollar from the Reds after the Dodgers trade fell through, the Yankees took a low cost risk. Absorb the suspension and then see what they can do with the big 3. They likely had 2 scenarios worked out. If the Yankees were in first place, or close to it, they'd just assume keep the 3 guys. If not, they would hope that Chapman stayed healthy and remained dominant and start shopping him.
The Yankees had to move him, and they used Miller as a lure to get a bunch of teams in the bidding. Once they more or less took Miller off the market, unless they are blown away, Chapman became the focus. When Chapman hit 105 on the gun, the Yankees almost had to pull the trigger and trade him and not risk him getting hurt, he was at the peak of his game. So Cashman played all these teams against each other and got back a much better package than they gave up to get him. That's smart business in the front office, something we haven't seen much from the Yankees in the past while.
Greg, if we can land a top bat for Miller I'm all for it.
Something like the way we traded away 19 year old Fred McGriff for crap years back. We desperately need hitting...the team sucks and the Stadium is a tomb without better offense.
I'll guess Torres goes to Trenton and Mateo stays in Tampa
Given what the Cubs paid, and the fact that Miller is by far the best of the available reliever, I think they could play the field up enough to get a guy like Gallo from the Rangers or Frazier from the Indians.
and the return for Beltran and whoever else we can deal, We might be half of the way toward trading for Mike Trout. He should play in NY and the Angels can lose without him. Make it so Cashman.
because it inflates Miller's value and if we don't go full rebuild, it actually doesn't leave us noticeably weaker We aren't going to make the playoffs because we have a third closer - we will make it if the older players suddenly turn back the clock the rest of the way.
Since that scenario is unlikely I think this trade just sets the table. I could see Miller and Beltran going for quite a haul and we'll have to see about Nova and some of our overpaid players like Ellsbury and Headley.
RE: If...and that's the big word, if....if they decide to trade Miller
Given what the Cubs paid, and the fact that Miller is by far the best of the available reliever, I think they could play the field up enough to get a guy like Gallo from the Rangers or Frazier from the Indians.
Gallo? Why would we want a guy who profiles to strike out 250 times per season in Texas? That would be 300 in the Bronx. No thanks.
RE: If...and that's the big word, if....if they decide to trade Miller
Given what the Cubs paid, and the fact that Miller is by far the best of the available reliever, I think they could play the field up enough to get a guy like Gallo from the Rangers or Frazier from the Indians.
I don't think Hal will do it. He will trade the guys who's contracts are up, but I don't see him trading off someone under contract for next year, and not with Miller's track record. I would love to see the Yankees do it, but he wants to find a way to keep fans coming the last few months. The past few years he had Mo and Jeter retire, and they found a way to get in as a Wild Card last year. If they deal a guy like Miller, Yankee Stadium will be empty the last 2 months.
Does anyone really give a shit about the second wild card, though?
Something like the way we traded away 19 year old Fred McGriff for crap years back. We desperately need hitting...the team sucks and the Stadium is a tomb without better offense.
yat this is something all of the "if only George were still alive" crowd need to memorize. Good post.
RE: RE: Greg, if we can land a top bat for Miller I'm all for it.
Something like the way we traded away 19 year old Fred McGriff for crap years back. We desperately need hitting...the team sucks and the Stadium is a tomb without better offense.
yat this is something all of the "if only George were still alive" crowd need to memorize. Good post.
And Doug Drabek
And Jay Buhner
And Tony Armas Jr...who was spun to Montreal to send Pedro to Boston
Victor, George made a whole bunch of really stupid trades
over the years, as we both know...Ken Phelps, anyone? But he at least swung for the fences and put his wallet where his mouth was. The kids are so much more bottom line than he was. What they seem not to recognize is the way you get fannies in the seats is by investing in the team. The 11 million George paid for the team sure paid off, because he was willing to shell out more money and bring in guys like Reggie and Catfish.
RE: If...and that's the big word, if....if they decide to trade Miller
Given what the Cubs paid, and the fact that Miller is by far the best of the available reliever, I think they could play the field up enough to get a guy like Gallo from the Rangers or Frazier from the Indians.
I want them to put out a "take it or leave it" price on Miller. If no one ponies up, you have the best reliever in baseball for two more years, and the opportunity to trade him in the offseason or at next year's deadline.
RE: Victor, George made a whole bunch of really stupid trades
over the years, as we both know...Ken Phelps, anyone? But he at least swung for the fences and put his wallet where his mouth was. The kids are so much more bottom line than he was. What they seem not to recognize is the way you get fannies in the seats is by investing in the team. The 11 million George paid for the team sure paid off, because he was willing to shell out more money and bring in guys like Reggie and Catfish.
you mean like when the building was empty in the late '80s early 90s due to his complete mismanagement? His buffoonery given free reign nearly destroyed the franchise. The biggest ovation at the Stadium in that period was the night the 2 yr suspension of George was announced.
The Yankees current problem is not that they haven't spent money. It's that they have not spent it unwisely and have too much $$ tied up in players who can't perform any more.
RE: Does anyone really give a shit about the second wild card, though?
Is now that we're about 15 years into the Yankee tax era instituted by Selig, most other teams can also afford to spend with the Yanks in FA.
Big George would have paid through the nose to keep Cano...but few other teams could have or would have beaten us in years or salary either. Now other teams can.
Ellsbury is one prime example of that. The second ARod deal (when we bid against ourselves at Hank's direction) was similarly stupid.
But we're also suffering because the long term deals we had to give guys like CC and Tex have reached the point everyone knew they would, when the guys couldn't cut it any more.
And then there's the non-productive farm system (at least with regard to positional players). Let's not forget that.
The Yankees control this market. They just took the 2nd best reliever available off the market, and hold const-controlled rights to the best.
If they get floored with an offer for Miller, they will take it. If not they keep him and try again next year (either to win or flip him for picks).
Let's not fool ourselves, making the post-season and playing competitive games is still very important to the bottom line. A wildcard/pennant chase is worth millions to the organization, not to mention Girardi's and Cashman's jobs.
RE: Does anyone really give a shit about the second wild card, though?
Also Sherman makes it sound like they're not permanently moving him to 2B, only that he'll get reps there as Mateo's teammate. Avelino and Estrada may struggle to get PT.
Would be to leave Ellsbury stranded before getting back to the Bronx
We've seen some pretty stupid things in baseball (e.g. that 1 FA a year Boras somehow gets 9 figures), but I can't imagine anyone is dumb enough to take Ellsbury off of our hands. I'd call Seattle though.
Would be to leave Ellsbury stranded before getting back to the Bronx
We've seen some pretty stupid things in baseball (e.g. that 1 FA a year Boras somehow gets 9 figures), but I can't imagine anyone is dumb enough to take Ellsbury off of our hands. I'd call Seattle though.
They no longer have an absolute moron as their GM.
5 of the top 100 prospects with 3 in the first 30. I have no doubt that Kap ( if he ever gets healthy) will make the top 100 for next year giving us 6 for 2018.
And we still might not be done.
I get that the return could be huge moving Miller..
This team is not really competing for anything next year either.
shockeyisthebest8056 : 2:38 pm : link : reply
The moron triumvirate needs to get that through their thick skulls and move Miller.
But what I don't get is the idea that the team needs to get younger and stockpile talent but they would give up a dominant young player to do that. They still will need a closer to be competitive once they have young talent.
I'm not opposed to them selling Miller - they just better have the Brinks truck backed up for him.
This team is not really competing for anything next year either.
shockeyisthebest8056 : 2:38 pm : link : reply
The moron triumvirate needs to get that through their thick skulls and move Miller.
But what I don't get is the idea that the team needs to get younger and stockpile talent but they would give up a dominant young player to do that. They still will need a closer to be competitive once they have young talent.
I'm not opposed to them selling Miller - they just better have the Brinks truck backed up for him.
They would still have Betances to close. And while I like Miller a lot, I just don't trust relievers to not fall off of a cliff. And he's not old but not young either. Think he's over 30.
They'll get a haul for Miller if they want to move him, hope they do.
over the years, as we both know...Ken Phelps, anyone? But he at least swung for the fences and put his wallet where his mouth was. The kids are so much more bottom line than he was. What they seem not to recognize is the way you get fannies in the seats is by investing in the team. The 11 million George paid for the team sure paid off, because he was willing to shell out more money and bring in guys like Reggie and Catfish.
you mean like when the building was empty in the late '80s early 90s due to his complete mismanagement? His buffoonery given free reign nearly destroyed the franchise. The biggest ovation at the Stadium in that period was the night the 2 yr suspension of George was announced.
The Yankees current problem is not that they haven't spent money. It's that they have not spent it unwisely and have too much $$ tied up in players who can't perform any more.
Except, the Stadium was hardly empty in the late 80s. The were 3rd in the AL in 87, 2nd in the AL in 88 (their highest per game average of the decade) and 8th in the AL in 89 with 2.1M fans. In fact, the only years in the 80s they didn't draw over 2M were 84 and 81 (strike shortened season with an average draw of over 30K).
Of course attendance dropped from there and was actually worse in 1995 (a playoff season) than at any point in the 80s.
Don't rule out Eovaldi from the back of the bullpen mix
With his stuff, but problems getting through a lineup 2-3 times, the move to the pen made sense. They may like adding his heat to form another big 3.
I like this deal and would even be fine following it up with a deal including Miller or Betances.
I like sale as a pitcher, but I think dealing for him defeats the purpose of trading guys like Chapman, Miller, Beltran, etc. The entire point is get younger and aquire as much talent as possible. Why would you turn around and package much of that talent for a pitcher who is not likely to make a significant difference to the team's fortunes in the next 1-2 years?
Vincente Campos to AAA, which is interesting in its own right.
whoa - didnt campos throw smoke before the injury? Like high 90s? very interesting. Time to make room for some kids, lets go Cash...
Hahaha
Donnie Collins
@DonnieCollinsTT
Baseball is an awesome game played in a small world. Vicente Campos will make his AAA debut tonight against Buffalo and Jesus Montero.
Bringing back Warren and promoting Severino, I think
With these moves and some more, there will be a handful of youngsters competing for jobs on the big club, plus a number of names trying to start the year moving to AA or AAA.
If guys like Campos and Severino and Judge et al. don't pan out, it won't be all that interesting. It will be pretty sad here for a while.
The problem is that Yankee fans need to be prepared for it not panning out immediately. Some of them are going to struggle, and if we boo them into oblivion after 100 ABs we're going to send the FO a message about whether we actually do have the patience to rebuild.
good stuff about the prospects. He spoke highly of Severino's character and work ethic, said he's doing well, but still seems like he has some command issues to work out. He's getting by on pure stuff, still needs to hit spots consistently.
If guys like Campos and Severino and Judge et al. don't pan out, it won't be all that interesting. It will be pretty sad here for a while.
The problem is that Yankee fans need to be prepared for it not panning out immediately. Some of them are going to struggle, and if we boo them into oblivion after 100 ABs we're going to send the FO a message about whether we actually do have the patience to rebuild.
Excellent point. And, even if they do pan out, we have a lot of needs. By "panning out" I mean that those types of names have to be in the Bronx for a decent amount of time next season and be reasonably good. They have to show they can handle the big leagues. They don't need to be stars now, but eventually in 2018 or 2019 they will need to be.
last week. Was hitting 95 through the 6th. Gave up a double and HR to the first two batters and then didn't give up another run. Think he walked two, but his control seemed decent for as hard as he was throwing.
I was expecting a better showing than what he gave early in the year. I think he still has a shot to be a very good pitcher in the majors. I have yet to see Campos. How much of a shot does he have to start the year in the Bronx next season?
last week. Was hitting 95 through the 6th. Gave up a double and HR to the first two batters and then didn't give up another run. Think he walked two, but his control seemed decent for as hard as he was throwing.
good to hear.
I like the deal for both clubs. Cashman did well trading for him.
I would think it'll hurt more paying "X" for someone significantly worse than Chapman than the really strong package the Cubs gave up. I mean barring injury Chapman is a great reliever and the Cubs can pay him through the nose if they want to keep him. The teams giving up B+ prospects for a Tyler Clippard are the ones who will regret it.
RE: RE: Yeah, I think if you are in the market for a reliever
I would think it'll hurt more paying "X" for someone significantly worse than Chapman than the really strong package the Cubs gave up. I mean barring injury Chapman is a great reliever and the Cubs can pay him through the nose if they want to keep him. The teams giving up B+ prospects for a Tyler Clippard are the ones who will regret it.
I think the Chapman trade probably hurt the Indians the most. I doubt the Royals trade their closer in their division. The Yanks have Miller, but his price tag just went up- and now you have to hold off the Rangers and the Nats.
I wonder whether the Indians try and jump to the front of the line by making the Yanks an offer they can't refuse on Miller today or tomorrow and try to avoid deadline issues?
RE: MLB.com puts Torres #1 on Yankees prospect list
Mateo and Judge 2,3 and then McKinney goes #4, ahead of sanchez Link - ( New Window )
from that link, sounds like Torres could play 2d or 3d:
"Torres seemed a half-step quicker in 2015, enhancing his chances of staying at shortstop. While his range may be just average, his instincts and strong arm allow him to make plays. If he has to change positions, he'd profile well offensively and defensively at either second or third base."
If guys like Campos and Severino and Judge et al. don't pan out, it won't be all that interesting. It will be pretty sad here for a while.
The problem is that Yankee fans need to be prepared for it not panning out immediately. Some of them are going to struggle, and if we boo them into oblivion after 100 ABs we're going to send the FO a message about whether we actually do have the patience to rebuild.
Bingo, Duned. We can't put added pressure on kids who will likely take a while to come into their own. It's funny, but Yankee fans are more spoiled nowadays than in the 70s, when the team really stunk.
And we have a long way to go before we're a championship-level club once again. Pretty hard to replace the stars we had during our championship run. You don't find guys like that too often unless you're picking at the top off the first round and/or do an amazing job in INT FA.
Remember a few weeks ago when Randal got too full of himself (what else is new) and thought his tough guy talk about how I was wrong that Cashman was making great trades was the truth.
Remember a few weeks ago when Randal got too full of himself (what else is new) and thought his tough guy talk about how I was wrong that Cashman was making great trades was the truth.
Where is Randal today?
He was complaining that Cashman didn't hold out for a better deal.
Sanchez is only 2 years older, outhitting him at a higher level at a premium position.
Callis said to ignore the top 30. He said Torres is the Yankees #1 prospect, McKinney will drop off their top 100 and will be "reranked" accordingly.
Of course McKinney will be dropped- he's a Yankee prospect.
That's not really fair. He said they don't update the rankings in-season (cited Bregman being listed as #18 as one that stands out). You look at McKinney's numbers and tell me he's top 100 but dropped because he was a Yankee. It's not like he came into the year #25, he was #88 and having a bad year. MLB.com just removes names that are ineligible and when top 100 pre-season guys are traded they automatically rank higher than others. That's their algorithm.
could be a great trade partner for the Yankees. They have quite a few nice minor league pieces and just missed out on Chapman. If I'm Cleveland I deal for Miller AND Lucroy. They can win the WS this season.
There had been words that there may be an extension involved earlier. Not clear yet all the specifics.
If the Yanks go into a rebuild they need to add pitching prospects. Makes no sense to spend on hitting if you are in a rebuild.
That's the exact package a fake Rosenthal account posted so Rojas may have been caught stealing fake info lol
Link - ( New Window )
It's 24 on the latest MLB.com rating and according to them, Chicago Cubs Prospects (#1), SS Prospects (#8)
Rookie Davis
Eric Jagielo
Tony Renda
Caleb Cotham
Brendan Ryan
for
Gleyber Torres
Billy McKinney
Starlin Castro
One other guy (potentially)
In their defense, Cubs fans aren't exactly used to things working out for them.
Sounds like a solid haul for the Yanks
Theo Epstein may as well pick out his HOF bust if that happens. Being instrumental in the Cubs and and Red Sox WS droughts ending.
And the Indians, Nats and Rangers with their loaded farms are pulling up the trucks...
Since 2010, Aroldis Chapman has 1,513 pitches at 100 MPH or faster, more than next 18 pitchers on list COMBINED.
Link - ( New Window )
"If so, the Yankees might find that teams such as the Red Sox and Dodgers have more prospects. But if the Yankees are indeed getting shortstop phenom Gleyber Torres as the key to the Chapman deal from the Cubs, does offering the White Sox a package headed by Torres or Jorge Mateo, Gary Sanchez or Aaron Judge and Luis Severino or James Kaprielian at least get them in the game?"
They already reportedly turned down Gallo/Profar and another unnamed "top" prospect with the White Sox insisting on Mazara
It was a lot of fun watching Chapman. And it looks like the door is still open for a return next season. Wouldn't have to give up the draft pick either to sign him. Cubs taking a big risk.
I'm sure they want to see how the rest of the week goes, but they've got to explore every possible deal for Miller. The RP market is officially insane.
What the Yankees can do with these trades (assuming Beltran and Miller and others go too) is build an excellent young nucleus again, one that will contend for a long time.
What the Yankees can do with these trades (assuming Beltran and Miller and others go too) is build an excellent young nucleus again, one that will contend for a long time.
+1
Unless a team unloads its truck of major prospects
What the Yankees can do with these trades (assuming Beltran and Miller and others go too) is build an excellent young nucleus again, one that will contend for a long time.
The Yankees only where 1 road and 1 home uniform. Nothing to worry about :-)
Sale is 27. 28 next season.
Certainly makes the risk of that happening increase for one thing. For another, what's the point of accumulating assets just to send the best of them away for a guy who isn't going to turn this franchise around by himself?
Quote:
at this stage of the Yankees development.
Sale is 27. 28 next season.
But the Yankees probably won't be ready to do much more than hope for a wild card for 2-3 more years.
What would be even crazier is if Chapman comes back to the Yankees so in essence they would have traded just Brendan Ryan.
If they signed Chapman as an FA, they would have traded:
Brendan Ryan, Eric Jagielo, Rookie Davis, Tony Renda, and Caleb Cotham for....
Gleyber Torres, Starlin Castro, Billy McKinney and Rashad Crawford.
It's hard to get legit front of the rotation talent without paying a ton in FA unless you grow it. this could be a rare opportunity to get that at a discount (one the price comes down).
The Yankees have resources to turn things around quicker than most teams.
the crazy factor is the only thing that scares me about him - though I can't say I've heard a history of it, this incident was the first one I heard about - but admittedly haven't been paying attention.
And their farm is prospect rich, and lots of roster talent is young, sans pitching.
I think Torres is #27, McKinney has all the makings of a MLr.
Quote:
In comment 13044280 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
at this stage of the Yankees development.
Sale is 27. 28 next season.
But the Yankees probably won't be ready to do much more than hope for a wild card for 2-3 more years.
Greg,
I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying "I can't see the Yankees trading their chips for a 30 year old" isn't really fair. He has 2.5 seasons before he's a 30 year old pitcher.
Sorry, should've specified location, not position. I meant will Torres start at Tampa or go straight to Trenton? And what other moves with the aforementioned group will also happen?
And their farm is prospect rich, and lots of roster talent is young, sans pitching.
I think Torres is #27, McKinney has all the makings of a MLr.
McKinney has not been hitting at AA.
The Yankees had to move him, and they used Miller as a lure to get a bunch of teams in the bidding. Once they more or less took Miller off the market, unless they are blown away, Chapman became the focus. When Chapman hit 105 on the gun, the Yankees almost had to pull the trigger and trade him and not risk him getting hurt, he was at the peak of his game. So Cashman played all these teams against each other and got back a much better package than they gave up to get him. That's smart business in the front office, something we haven't seen much from the Yankees in the past while.
Since that scenario is unlikely I think this trade just sets the table. I could see Miller and Beltran going for quite a haul and we'll have to see about Nova and some of our overpaid players like Ellsbury and Headley.
Gallo? Why would we want a guy who profiles to strike out 250 times per season in Texas? That would be 300 in the Bronx. No thanks.
I don't think Hal will do it. He will trade the guys who's contracts are up, but I don't see him trading off someone under contract for next year, and not with Miller's track record. I would love to see the Yankees do it, but he wants to find a way to keep fans coming the last few months. The past few years he had Mo and Jeter retire, and they found a way to get in as a Wild Card last year. If they deal a guy like Miller, Yankee Stadium will be empty the last 2 months.
yat this is something all of the "if only George were still alive" crowd need to memorize. Good post.
Quote:
Something like the way we traded away 19 year old Fred McGriff for crap years back. We desperately need hitting...the team sucks and the Stadium is a tomb without better offense.
yat this is something all of the "if only George were still alive" crowd need to memorize. Good post.
And Doug Drabek
And Jay Buhner
And Tony Armas Jr...who was spun to Montreal to send Pedro to Boston
I want them to put out a "take it or leave it" price on Miller. If no one ponies up, you have the best reliever in baseball for two more years, and the opportunity to trade him in the offseason or at next year's deadline.
you mean like when the building was empty in the late '80s early 90s due to his complete mismanagement? His buffoonery given free reign nearly destroyed the franchise. The biggest ovation at the Stadium in that period was the night the 2 yr suspension of George was announced.
The Yankees current problem is not that they haven't spent money. It's that they have not spent it unwisely and have too much $$ tied up in players who can't perform any more.
It was only fun because the Sox sucked so bad. This year, it would be a pretty empty achievement.
Big George would have paid through the nose to keep Cano...but few other teams could have or would have beaten us in years or salary either. Now other teams can.
But we're also suffering because the long term deals we had to give guys like CC and Tex have reached the point everyone knew they would, when the guys couldn't cut it any more.
And then there's the non-productive farm system (at least with regard to positional players). Let's not forget that.
If they get floored with an offer for Miller, they will take it. If not they keep him and try again next year (either to win or flip him for picks).
Let's not fool ourselves, making the post-season and playing competitive games is still very important to the bottom line. A wildcard/pennant chase is worth millions to the organization, not to mention Girardi's and Cashman's jobs.
Yea it's called making the postseason
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Tried to see if anyone posted this yet, but it's hard to wade through the exited chattering.
I'm pumped though. Finally have some hope to get the young talent around the league that seemingly avoids a Bronx landing spot.
We've seen some pretty stupid things in baseball (e.g. that 1 FA a year Boras somehow gets 9 figures), but I can't imagine anyone is dumb enough to take Ellsbury off of our hands. I'd call Seattle though.
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Would be to leave Ellsbury stranded before getting back to the Bronx
We've seen some pretty stupid things in baseball (e.g. that 1 FA a year Boras somehow gets 9 figures), but I can't imagine anyone is dumb enough to take Ellsbury off of our hands. I'd call Seattle though.
They no longer have an absolute moron as their GM.
And we still might not be done.
shockeyisthebest8056 : 2:38 pm : link : reply
The moron triumvirate needs to get that through their thick skulls and move Miller.
But what I don't get is the idea that the team needs to get younger and stockpile talent but they would give up a dominant young player to do that. They still will need a closer to be competitive once they have young talent.
I'm not opposed to them selling Miller - they just better have the Brinks truck backed up for him.
whoa - didnt campos throw smoke before the injury? Like high 90s? very interesting. Time to make room for some kids, lets go Cash...
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This team is not really competing for anything next year either.
shockeyisthebest8056 : 2:38 pm : link : reply
The moron triumvirate needs to get that through their thick skulls and move Miller.
But what I don't get is the idea that the team needs to get younger and stockpile talent but they would give up a dominant young player to do that. They still will need a closer to be competitive once they have young talent.
I'm not opposed to them selling Miller - they just better have the Brinks truck backed up for him.
They would still have Betances to close. And while I like Miller a lot, I just don't trust relievers to not fall off of a cliff. And he's not old but not young either. Think he's over 30.
They'll get a haul for Miller if they want to move him, hope they do.
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over the years, as we both know...Ken Phelps, anyone? But he at least swung for the fences and put his wallet where his mouth was. The kids are so much more bottom line than he was. What they seem not to recognize is the way you get fannies in the seats is by investing in the team. The 11 million George paid for the team sure paid off, because he was willing to shell out more money and bring in guys like Reggie and Catfish.
you mean like when the building was empty in the late '80s early 90s due to his complete mismanagement? His buffoonery given free reign nearly destroyed the franchise. The biggest ovation at the Stadium in that period was the night the 2 yr suspension of George was announced.
The Yankees current problem is not that they haven't spent money. It's that they have not spent it unwisely and have too much $$ tied up in players who can't perform any more.
Of course attendance dropped from there and was actually worse in 1995 (a playoff season) than at any point in the 80s.
I like this deal and would even be fine following it up with a deal including Miller or Betances.
I like sale as a pitcher, but I think dealing for him defeats the purpose of trading guys like Chapman, Miller, Beltran, etc. The entire point is get younger and aquire as much talent as possible. Why would you turn around and package much of that talent for a pitcher who is not likely to make a significant difference to the team's fortunes in the next 1-2 years?
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Vincente Campos to AAA, which is interesting in its own right.
whoa - didnt campos throw smoke before the injury? Like high 90s? very interesting. Time to make room for some kids, lets go Cash...
Hahaha
Donnie Collins
@DonnieCollinsTT
Baseball is an awesome game played in a small world. Vicente Campos will make his AAA debut tonight against Buffalo and Jesus Montero.
The problem is that Yankee fans need to be prepared for it not panning out immediately. Some of them are going to struggle, and if we boo them into oblivion after 100 ABs we're going to send the FO a message about whether we actually do have the patience to rebuild.
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If guys like Campos and Severino and Judge et al. don't pan out, it won't be all that interesting. It will be pretty sad here for a while.
The problem is that Yankee fans need to be prepared for it not panning out immediately. Some of them are going to struggle, and if we boo them into oblivion after 100 ABs we're going to send the FO a message about whether we actually do have the patience to rebuild.
good to hear.
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I would think it'll hurt more paying "X" for someone significantly worse than Chapman than the really strong package the Cubs gave up. I mean barring injury Chapman is a great reliever and the Cubs can pay him through the nose if they want to keep him. The teams giving up B+ prospects for a Tyler Clippard are the ones who will regret it.
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you're not psyched with the Cubs right now.
I would think it'll hurt more paying "X" for someone significantly worse than Chapman than the really strong package the Cubs gave up. I mean barring injury Chapman is a great reliever and the Cubs can pay him through the nose if they want to keep him. The teams giving up B+ prospects for a Tyler Clippard are the ones who will regret it.
I think the Chapman trade probably hurt the Indians the most. I doubt the Royals trade their closer in their division. The Yanks have Miller, but his price tag just went up- and now you have to hold off the Rangers and the Nats.
I wonder whether the Indians try and jump to the front of the line by making the Yanks an offer they can't refuse on Miller today or tomorrow and try to avoid deadline issues?
from that link, sounds like Torres could play 2d or 3d:
"Torres seemed a half-step quicker in 2015, enhancing his chances of staying at shortstop. While his range may be just average, his instincts and strong arm allow him to make plays. If he has to change positions, he'd profile well offensively and defensively at either second or third base."
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If guys like Campos and Severino and Judge et al. don't pan out, it won't be all that interesting. It will be pretty sad here for a while.
The problem is that Yankee fans need to be prepared for it not panning out immediately. Some of them are going to struggle, and if we boo them into oblivion after 100 ABs we're going to send the FO a message about whether we actually do have the patience to rebuild.
Bingo, Duned. We can't put added pressure on kids who will likely take a while to come into their own. It's funny, but Yankee fans are more spoiled nowadays than in the 70s, when the team really stunk.
And we have a long way to go before we're a championship-level club once again. Pretty hard to replace the stars we had during our championship run. You don't find guys like that too often unless you're picking at the top off the first round and/or do an amazing job in INT FA.
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Where is Randal today?
They changed it. It was probably a mistake, they have Sanchez ranked higher in their top 100 (50 vs 75).
Where is Randal today?
He was complaining that Cashman didn't hold out for a better deal.
Callis said to ignore the top 30. He said Torres is the Yankees #1 prospect, McKinney will drop off their top 100 and will be "reranked" accordingly.
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Sanchez is only 2 years older, outhitting him at a higher level at a premium position.
Callis said to ignore the top 30. He said Torres is the Yankees #1 prospect, McKinney will drop off their top 100 and will be "reranked" accordingly.
Of course McKinney will be dropped- he's a Yankee prospect.
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In comment 13044784 Greg from LI said:
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Sanchez is only 2 years older, outhitting him at a higher level at a premium position.
Callis said to ignore the top 30. He said Torres is the Yankees #1 prospect, McKinney will drop off their top 100 and will be "reranked" accordingly.
Of course McKinney will be dropped- he's a Yankee prospect.
That's not really fair. He said they don't update the rankings in-season (cited Bregman being listed as #18 as one that stands out). You look at McKinney's numbers and tell me he's top 100 but dropped because he was a Yankee. It's not like he came into the year #25, he was #88 and having a bad year. MLB.com just removes names that are ineligible and when top 100 pre-season guys are traded they automatically rank higher than others. That's their algorithm.