WR Depth (Darius Powe and Roger Lewis)

Lewis and Powe make the team, they will likely be inactive (“healthy scratches”) most weeks. Without injuries, neither is likely to “figure heavily in our offensive play,” although Lewis has the best chance to contribute because of his speed. He would have been drafted absent his off the field problems. I don’t think Powe had any such problems, and he was also Goff’s favorite target. But he still wasn’t drafted. Both need a year to adjust to the NFL. I also think Harris will get snaps at WR. Less because Shepard is here, but he isn’t just for ST.

My whole point is injuries HAVE figured heavily in our WR corps for the last decade. My question was how do Powe and Lewis look as far as depth goes... I guess raw is your POV.

If he keeps his head on straight I think he makes this team. Powe is very intriguing and provides this team with something it lacks and that is size. However, from a pure football standpoint I want the more talented player to stick and, to me, that is Lewis. I don't know if either would last on our PS. I would assume not. I think we definitely keep 6 but it is out of the question to keep 7? Who knows?

I think we only keep 4 RBs and we know 3 of them already in Jennings, Vereen, and Perkins. Who will be that next back? Is it possible we only keep 3 backs and stash a guy on the PS?

I think TE is just as intriguing as WR. We have a bunch of number 2 or number 3 starting pitchers here. We don't have an ace but we can make a nice rotation out of them. The problem is who? We have Donnell, Tye, Adams, Malleck, LaCosse, and Johnson. Donnell's neck injury could be a problem for him. I think Tye and Adams are as close to locks as you can get although I wouldn't call them locks yet. Adams' rep is that he is lazy and that will not fly if that is the case. Malleck seems like the best blocker we have. LaCosse has shown signs. Johnson could possibly be added to that close to a lock list but I think he is still battling Whitlock too. They told Johnson that he will be playing all over the field so by that you may say he is a lock but he will have to be effective in all those different roles to do so. So, how many TEs do we keep? I would say 3 at the minimum and the top three as of today would probably be Tye, Johnson, and Adams.

In comment 13044887 adamg said:

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My whole point is injuries HAVE figured heavily in our WR corps for the last decade. My question was how do Powe and Lewis look as far as depth goes... I guess raw is your POV.

Raw UDFA's. I see them on our practice squad though. I think it most likely we carry five wideouts for opening day and have Power, Lewis and Dable on the practice squad.

I'm not sure how many four WR sets the Giants used last year. I honestly don't recall announcers noting they had four wideouts out there. Having five active contributors on gameday sounds right to me.

is very WR friendly so you do not need brain surgeons out there. It is designed to take advantage of a player's ability. You may say these guys are raw but I don't know how much that matters in this offense. In the past you would look for 3rd year WRs to make huge impacts. Now you are seeing rookies make impacts all the time and this offense allows that.

I personally am not seeing the big deal with Dable. He is a great story and seems like a great kid but he is old already. He may not make an impact until he is 30. The upside is limited imo. I would much rather stick with a younger player with upside where, if Cruz only has a little time left, we can transition smoothly with that younger receiver.

at most one of them makes the team, and the odds of that one dressing, let alone contributing, are slim to nil. You completely overlooked Geremy Davis who will probably get some reps even without injuries, as Coach Quinn in lobbying hard for Dwayne Harris to receive less reps on O so that he can play gunner more on STs. Listen to Quinn's interview on Giants Insider at Giants.com.

So basically you are speculating on life in never never land, hopefully. Even Davis will hardly see the field if OBJ, VC & SS remain healthy. But Davis is the "big body" guy in the best position to contribute anything.

OBj, Harris, Shepard, and hopefully Cruz.....after that, it's basically wishful thinking....Davis and White have a slight edge, because they were here last year....the rest, maybe someone steps up and supplants Davis/White....not that Davis and White have strong resumes....

In fact, if Cruz has problems, this puts more pressure on Shepard as a starter, and forces more playing time for Harris....after that, we have a bunch of hopefuls......so depth? Not as much as many think.....

and he is a special teams guy so I would be shocked if he didn't make the team.

In comment 13044900 robbieballs2003 said:

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is very WR friendly so you do not need brain surgeons out there. It is designed to take advantage of a player's ability. You may say these guys are raw but I don't know how much that matters in this offense. In the past you would look for 3rd year WRs to make huge impacts. Now you are seeing rookies make impacts all the time and this offense allows that. I personally am not seeing the big deal with Dable. He is a great story and seems like a great kid but he is old already. He may not make an impact until he is 30. The upside is limited imo. I would much rather stick with a younger player with upside where, if Cruz only has a little time left, we can transition smoothly with that younger receiver.

Dable is just very physical. If he does well in camp I was thinking "redzone threat" due to his jumping and hands. But at 28, I agree that his upside is likely limited. Camp will be quite interesting.

If there is one besides crying Doom! The Giants have no WR depth?!

In comment 13044940 robbieballs2003 said:

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and he is a special teams guy so I would be shocked if he didn't make the team.

I believe our key five wideouts are going to be OBJ, Cruz, Shepard, Harris and G. Davis. No way G. Davis doesn't make the team.

I would not be shocked if we picked up a veteran wideout during camp to be the #6 should WR D. Harris be given special teams only duties. I just think D. Harris is the guy who give Cruz, OBJ or Shepard a breather here and there during games.

the LAST THING they will do is pick up an aging FA WR.

With Lewis, Powe, Dable, King, Maye and others already in camp. Book it.

In comment 13044953 BlueLou said:

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the LAST THING they will do is pick up an aging FA WR. With Lewis, Powe, Dable, King, Maye and others already in camp. Book it.

You are probably right. McAdoo will likely look to develop from the ground up. I really hope at least ONE of our UDFA's develop into a legit wideout. My money is on Powe right now but that is a total guess.

depending on ST play. With todays aerial show I can see them carrying 7 WR

In comment 13044966 xman said:

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depending on ST play. With todays aerial show I can see them carrying 7 WR

Special teams play is key. If you have 7 wideouts, where do you "cut back" to make room? It is a numbers game but agree specials is a big determinant. I just don't think we are "7 WR's deep" talent / specials wise.

I do believe we could carry five safeties though IF all of them look good: D. Thompson, M. Thompson, C. Taylor, B. Jackson, L. Collins, N. Behre and J. Currie all with some talent and competing. My gut tells me all but Taylor and Currie stick.

It's QB-WR communication. If a WR fits in well with what Eli expects well then....

heading into camp this year. And while I value experience highly, I hope they don't sacrifice talent for experience if the ability is impressive enough.

I'd love the Giants to be able to add a bigger WR to their roster, like Powe or Dable. I guess I have to concede that Dable is likely just too raw, but in pure physical ability he's one of the most impressive rookie WR's I've seen on video.

And spare me the low level of competition argument. He's not any slower, weaker, less agile or has poorer ball skills when playing against a higher caliber of competition. It's about learning technique (A big job for where he's coming from,) getting the feel of the game, and getting the experience. Some players coming from so far back learn more quickly, but unfortunately, some don't.

In comment 13045057 TC said:

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heading into camp this year. And while I value experience highly, I hope they don't sacrifice talent for experience if the ability is impressive enough. I'd love the Giants to be able to add a bigger WR to their roster, like Powe or Dable. I guess I have to concede that Dable is likely just too raw, but in pure physical ability he's one of the most impressive rookie WR's I've seen on video. And spare me the low level of competition argument. He's not any slower, weaker, less agile or has poorer ball skills when playing against a higher caliber of competition. It's about learning technique (A big job for where he's coming from,) getting the feel of the game, and getting the experience. Some players coming from so far back learn more quickly, but unfortunately, some don't.

WR Dable looks like a beast on video. A shame he didn't come to the Giants five or six years ago and try out. 2 years on a practice squad and some game experience at the end of his second season and who knows.

I hope Powe or Lewis work out and become Cruz II. That would be exciting.

In comment 13044939 Doomster said:

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OBj, Harris, Shepard, and hopefully Cruz.....after that, it's basically wishful thinking....Davis and White have a slight edge, because they were here last year....the rest, maybe someone steps up and supplants Davis/White....not that Davis and White have strong resumes.... In fact, if Cruz has problems, this puts more pressure on Shepard as a starter, and forces more playing time for Harris....after that, we have a bunch of hopefuls......so depth? Not as much as many think.....

Take a gander at the rest of the league and tell me where we rank depth wise. I have my doubts that you could tell me much about any of the guys that are the 4th, 5th, and 6th WR on other teams' depth charts. The Patriots offense tailed off down the stretch when Edelman went down. The Packers had trouble adjusting without Jordy Nelson.

They both bring skill sets to the table look at Cruz he came
out of nowhere . Powe has nice size and enough speed to
have on the practice squad .
Lewis just seems like a playmaker with his own set of skills
Hope for the best if one or both pan out we would have
great depth at WR ..

surprised if the Giants don't carry WR's, which means that there will be fights for 3 remaining slots after OBJ, Cruz, Shepard and Harris

will probably have a WR or two this year.

Giants will almost surely carry 6 WRs, although 1 will be inactive if other positions are healthy enough to dress a full complement.

Giants may carry 2 WRs on PS based on performance, but that would be the max.

Because of the different skillsets, and Powe having multiple good college receivers competing for touchs at Cal, it is very difficult to substantiate that Lewis is the more talented player.

What exactly is your point here Doomster?
BlueLou : 7/25/2016 9:11 pm : link : reply
If there is one besides crying Doom! The Giants have no WR depth?!

Haven't we heard this rhetoric before? The last 4 seasons it's hope springs eternal for our WR group, and then the shit hits the fan....we have seen Nicks go down, we let Manningham go, Cruz go down, Randle never was the receiver we thought he'd be......last year, we brought back Nicks, instead of giving Davis and White more playing time....why? I think you know why......

It's easy to play, plug and play with players before the season starts.....but it can look totally different after the starting gun goes off....

Basically, all we had last season, was OBj, Randle, and Harris.....Harris was forced to play more than expected, because Cruz never showed up, and Randle's knees were a problem....

What has changed from last season? the only change is Shepard, a rookie, is replacing Randle.....he can be a huge upgrade if he runs his routes correctly....but he is still a rookie....we kind of look at him as the second coming of OBj...but until we actually see him play against pros, it's all speculation.....

Harris played well, last season, for a guy who did not have much experience at WR....he is valuable on ST's....he took some shots as a WR that affected his ST's play....I don't think he has the frame to do both effectively, if he has to play a lot of WR.....

That's why Cruz is the key.....if he can come back, and be an effective WR, this takes pressure off of Shepard, and allows him to transition into the offense much easier....but we have heard the glowing reports onCruz before, so until he gets out there, and STAYS out there, we just don't know....I have my fingers crossed....those four guys are our receivers......after that, it's all wishful thinking on depth....if one of them comes out of the pack, and becomes an effective receiver, it will be a huge plus.....

We are due for a break, from the WR group, which has had it's share of injuries.....if they are healthy, and the OL gives Eli the time, this offense can be downright scary....but if Cruz goes down, and if Shepard is on the wrong side of the learning curve, the depth after them is not really there....too many guys, with no experience.....

I'm almost certain that barring injury, Larry Donnell will be a starting TE this year. He's a good red zone target and is the only proven receiving TE even though he has his warts.

The WRs that don't make the final 53 should be safe on the practice squad.

Of course injuries are a factor, but they either happen or they don't.

The buzz about Shepard is truly unprecedented, it's far from a "we've heard this story before." Because, since OBJ was injured during his rookie pre-season, there wasn't as much "buzz" about OBJ even as there has been about Shepard. Of course there remains the question of how ANY rookie will react once the bullets fly, but if our DC says Shepard "looks like OBJ" on his practice film... well I am inclined to believe him. Lastly there's been plenty of nice buzz about Davis too, and the kid showed he can catch the ball running with and against the 1s, in shorts anyway.

We haven't been this deep at WR since Nicks/Cruz/Manningham in 2011. And we know where those guys took us.

The promised land, hallelujah!

If Cruz comes back and Davis/Harris are our 4th and 5th WRs, we're cooking with gaz!

it won't hit the deep WR corps. It will be an OL or DL that goes down.

I just out-doomed you.

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I will be a little surprised if the Giants don't carry WR's,

I bet they carry WR's too. Maybe several of them ;)

In comment 13045518 Bob in Vt said:

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Quote: I will be a little surprised if the Giants don't carry WR's, I bet they carry WR's too. Maybe several of them ;)

5,000 Quatloos says they don't!

never noticed that!

Meant that I'll be surprised they don't keep 7 WR's.

In comment 13045538 Klaatu said:

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In comment 13045518 Bob in Vt said: Quote: Quote: I will be a little surprised if the Giants don't carry WR's, I bet they carry WR's too. Maybe several of them ;) 5,000 Quatloos says they don't!

What movie is "quatloos" from ? Alien Nation ?

The Star Trek: TOS episode, "The Gamesters of Triskelion."

of course.

shall be surprised.

isn't in the mix. If Cruz is the 2nd best WR on the team and puts up career numbers, then the Giants might have the best War group in the league. On the other hand if you can imagine this group without Cruz - it's Beckham and Shepard and Davis. Totally different dynamic and suddenly Giants aren't even in the discussion of best in the league.

In comment 13046108 baadbill said:

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isn't in the mix. If Cruz is the 2nd best WR on the team and puts up career numbers, then the Giants might have the best War group in the league. On the other hand if you can imagine this group without Cruz - it's Beckham and Shepard and Davis. Totally different dynamic and suddenly Giants aren't even in the discussion of best in the league.

How much deeper are these other teams around the league? I highly doubt you could tell me much about any of the guys that aren't top 3 WR's on their respective teams. See my examples of the Patriots and Packers having trouble adjusting without Edelman and Nelson.

In comment 13046112 David in LA said:

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In comment 13046108 baadbill said: Quote: isn't in the mix. If Cruz is the 2nd best WR on the team and puts up career numbers, then the Giants might have the best War group in the league. On the other hand if you can imagine this group without Cruz - it's Beckham and Shepard and Davis. Totally different dynamic and suddenly Giants aren't even in the discussion of best in the league. How much deeper are these other teams around the league? I highly doubt you could tell me much about any of the guys that aren't top 3 WR's on their respective teams. See my examples of the Patriots and Packers having trouble adjusting without Edelman and Nelson.

I was think of almost the same point David, who are these teams with more than 2 fine receivers? Well the Redskins for sure with Jackson, Garçon, Crowder, and now Doctson counting of course Jordan Reed. Packers have a few young guys with promise like Adams, Montgomery, Janis, Abbrederis, and more open guys like Nelson and Cobb if healthy... They also have rookie UDFA Trevor Pryce who may be a better Cal product than Powe - certainly more of a deep threat guy.

are suggesting. Teams lose a starter, the backups are most likely not as good, so the offense skips a beat. It's not rocket science, but a few guys here seem to be under the impression that we should be stocked with potential pro bowlers as the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th WR..

Is the true wild card what will they do with him as camp opens and how will he help or hurt the young guys is key. Will he be PUP, limited or a full go to start camp and depending on his status who steps up or in as needed. I don't know what to say about Cruz it's been so long since he has been on the field hard for me to believe we will see the same player ever again.

Our roster,barring injury, will look like this I'm thinking:
QB: Manning, Nassib
RB: Jennings, Williams, Rainey, Perkins, Vereen
FB: Johnson
TE: Tye, Donnell, Lacosse, Adams
WR: OBJ, Cruz, Shepard, Davis, Harris
LT: Flowers
LG: Pugh, Gettis
OC: Richburg, Brett Jones
RG: Jerry, Hart
RT: Newhouse, Stingley

Why four TE's over 7 wideouts? I think LaCosse is the best blocker, by far, of the bunch and we'll keep a guy who can by our 3rd and short TE and who plays speciials over a pure development wideout with special teams. It is just a hunch. Donnell's contract ends so my thinking is with our depth he won't be resigned.

Now, the Giants may carry a 6th WR over a fourth TE. Just not sold on Power, Lewis, Dable or anyone else over TE Lacosse or TE Adams. Unless Adams looks bad and they put him the on the practice squad or an injury hits.

In comment 13046195 SGMen said:

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Now, the Giants may carry a 6th WR over a fourth TE. Just not sold on Power, Lewis, Dable or anyone else over TE Lacosse or TE Adams. Unless Adams looks bad and they put him the on the practice squad or an injury hits.

Five running backs? Take away Rainey and give me Lewis.