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NFT: Knicks Chat: ESPN predicts...

DanMetroMan : 7/26/2016 12:09 pm
Cleveland Cavaliers- 57-25
T-2 Boston Celtics- 51-31
T-2 Toronto Raptors- 51-31
T-4 Detroit Pistons- 45-37
T-4 Indiana Pacers- 45-37
Atlanta Hawks- 44-38
Charlotte Hornets- 43-39
Washington Wizards- 41-41

Knicks-9th place 40-42
If that happens you cannot help but laugh  
robbieballs2003 : 7/26/2016 12:10 pm : link
.
I think that's a bit low  
Greg from LI : 7/26/2016 12:11 pm : link
But hardly unreasonable
40-42  
DanMetroMan : 7/26/2016 12:18 pm : link
would be a disastrous season in my view. Miss the playoffs and pick roughly mid-late teens.
Which is why I thought this path they've followed was a mistake  
Greg from LI : 7/26/2016 12:24 pm : link
I think they'll do better than that, but what if Noah is injured again? What if Rose simply isn't particularly good anymore?
It's because they are  
Carl in CT : 7/26/2016 12:27 pm : link
Trying to start shit. Remember Rose says that we are elite.
difficult to disagree with Greg  
ColHowPepper : 7/26/2016 12:35 pm : link
so many new parts and we won't even know how they will work together, if they will work together, or for how long.

(I'm probably one of the few here who doesn't think KP is a slam dunk for greatness. He took the league by surprise in the first 30 games and, to my eye, had a weak second half, players exploiting his lack of quickness and awareness on (his) D and playing him much tighter on (his) O. I'm optimistic, but with some league wide familiarity with his game, his is going to have to improve significantly to overcome the way he will be played. Yes, I'm sure part of it was fatigue and too much too soon at the NBA level, and yes he will get stronger. I think a key is how Hornacek spreads the floor and decides how best to utilize his game and whether at the 4 or 5 with certain personnel groups. Love Noah's game, but he can't go like he did in his mid-20s.)
Disasterous?  
djm : 7/26/2016 12:50 pm : link
What if they win 40 games while KP goes from phenom to franchise stud player? What if hernangomez plays well and gains experience? It would be anything but a disaster if those things occur. If rose falters the Knicks will be deficient in the backcourt and that may be enough to keep the ceiling low this season but it's not a death blow to the Knicks if that happens.

I get wanting the sexy lottery pick but there's nothing wrong with steady improvement assuming the younngrr players are right in the middle of that improvement.
44-38, 6th seed  
Sean : 7/26/2016 12:58 pm : link
.
if you read the blurb this is their worst case scenario  
nygiants16 : 7/26/2016 1:00 pm : link
basically they said they are predicting major injuries for rose and noah..

it also says if rose and noah are healthy they are severely short changing the knicks...

so basically click bait
RE: Disasterous?  
DanMetroMan : 7/26/2016 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13045514 djm said:
Quote:
What if they win 40 games while KP goes from phenom to franchise stud player? What if hernangomez plays well and gains experience? It would be anything but a disaster if those things occur. If rose falters the Knicks will be deficient in the backcourt and that may be enough to keep the ceiling low this season but it's not a death blow to the Knicks if that happens.

I get wanting the sexy lottery pick but there's nothing wrong with steady improvement assuming the younngrr players are right in the middle of that improvement.


The Knicks won 32 games with Jose Calderon as the starting PG, Carmelo Anthony missing 10 games (where they went something like 1-9), Porzingis missing 10 games and Afflalo the starting 2. If KP emerges as a franchise stud player and they only win 8 more games, miss the playoffs and don't get a premium pick the season was a disaster with the only positive being KP's emergence. If KP is "that good" and they still only win 40 games then what exactly happened? The huge money center they signed sucked/was hurt? Aging Melo was hurt? Rose sucked? It's a disaster.
Again  
DanMetroMan : 7/26/2016 1:05 pm : link
Melo missed 10 games. The Knicks top players in minutes played last year

#2 Aaron Afflalo
#5 Langston Galloway
#6 Jose Calderon
#7 Derrick Williams
#9 Jerian Grant

If KP emerges as some beast and the Knicks can only eek out 8 more wins with this roster something went very, very wrong (likely multiple things).
#superteam  
Vin R : 7/26/2016 1:07 pm : link
.
RE: difficult to disagree with Greg  
Keith : 7/26/2016 1:11 pm : link
In comment 13045481 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
so many new parts and we won't even know how they will work together, if they will work together, or for how long.

(I'm probably one of the few here who doesn't think KP is a slam dunk for greatness. He took the league by surprise in the first 30 games and, to my eye, had a weak second half, players exploiting his lack of quickness and awareness on (his) D and playing him much tighter on (his) O. I'm optimistic, but with some league wide familiarity with his game, his is going to have to improve significantly to overcome the way he will be played. Yes, I'm sure part of it was fatigue and too much too soon at the NBA level, and yes he will get stronger. I think a key is how Hornacek spreads the floor and decides how best to utilize his game and whether at the 4 or 5 with certain personnel groups. Love Noah's game, but he can't go like he did in his mid-20s.)


I could not disagree with this more. First off, he has all of the tools for greatness, all of them. The hurdles will be improving his weaknesses(low post game and strength), but they are weaknesses that can be worked on. He's also a very hard worker who started working as soon as the season ended. The only thing that will stop KP from greatness is injury.

40 wins would be a disaster. The Knicks built this team to contend.  
Keith : 7/26/2016 1:27 pm : link
I believe that they can(I did not say will). Obviously the keys are health and Rose's game, but this team has the pieces right now to be a top 4 seed and over the next 2 years, add a few pieces to take them to the next level. If they don't make the playoffs, it will be nothing short of a disaster.
This group has something important.  
Keith : 7/26/2016 1:29 pm : link
Everyone is writing each of these guys off. Rose, Melo and Noah haven been written off to some extent over the past few years. They are all experienced, they've all been on very good teams and know what a good team looks like and they are all really excited for this squad. I'm excited to watch them prove the doubters wrong.
RE: 40 wins would be a disaster. The Knicks built this team to contend.  
Vin R : 7/26/2016 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13045576 Keith said:
Quote:
I believe that they can(I did not say will). Obviously the keys are health and Rose's game, but this team has the pieces right now to be a top 4 seed and over the next 2 years, add a few pieces to take them to the next level. If they don't make the playoffs, it will be nothing short of a disaster.


kmed?
what's better for the  
Enzo : 7/26/2016 1:50 pm : link
franchise long-term? Rose is a complete disaster, they miss the playoffs, and they have to re-address the PG position next summer? Or Rose is good, they win 50 games or so, and they give Rose a huge new contract?
Reputations are a tough thing to shake  
Chris684 : 7/26/2016 1:52 pm : link
But a trio Melo, KP in year 2 and Noah is going to win you 40 games.

If Rose plays anywhere near his pre-injury potential I think they win minimum 44-45.
RE: what's better for the  
DanMetroMan : 7/26/2016 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13045624 Enzo said:
Quote:
franchise long-term? Rose is a complete disaster, they miss the playoffs, and they have to re-address the PG position next summer? Or Rose is good, they win 50 games or so, and they give Rose a huge new contract?


Option 3... Rose is solid enough, Knicks the playoffs, give it a solid run.Chris Paul decides he wants to join Melo and KP.
RE: Again  
TyreeHelmet : 7/26/2016 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13045537 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Melo missed 10 games. The Knicks top players in minutes played last year

#2 Aaron Afflalo
#5 Langston Galloway
#6 Jose Calderon
#7 Derrick Williams
#9 Jerian Grant

If KP emerges as some beast and the Knicks can only eek out 8 more wins with this roster something went very, very wrong (likely multiple things).


Have to agree with Dan here. 40 games would be a disaster.

Jennings would have been the Knicks 3rd best player last year. He's the backup PG this year. I think they win 48-50 wins
Hey Vin.  
Keith : 7/26/2016 2:13 pm : link
If Rose is healthy and plays well, I am fully convinced that Phil will sign him. I think this is the team he wants and he wants to build consistency with this squad. I expect this to be the team we build around for 4 years. We will add pieces(draft picks, ring chasers, exception types) around this group over the next 2 seasons.
RE: RE: what's better for the  
Enzo : 7/26/2016 2:22 pm : link
In comment 13045637 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13045624 Enzo said:


Quote:


franchise long-term? Rose is a complete disaster, they miss the playoffs, and they have to re-address the PG position next summer? Or Rose is good, they win 50 games or so, and they give Rose a huge new contract?



Option 3... Rose is solid enough, Knicks the playoffs, give it a solid run.Chris Paul decides he wants to join Melo and KP.

And if they can't get CP3 or another better option? I don't trust Phil/Mills to make the prudent decision.
When you make these kinds of move in the off season  
steve in ky : 7/26/2016 2:25 pm : link
you expect much higher than 40 wins. So yes that would be a complete fail it were to happen.

That said I expect they will win a lot more than 40
RE: Hey Vin.  
Vin R : 7/26/2016 2:26 pm : link
In comment 13045689 Keith said:
Quote:
If Rose is healthy and plays well, I am fully convinced that Phil will sign him. I think this is the team he wants and he wants to build consistency with this squad. I expect this to be the team we build around for 4 years. We will add pieces(draft picks, ring chasers, exception types) around this group over the next 2 seasons.


Nice to see ya back!
Enzo  
DanMetroMan : 7/26/2016 2:27 pm : link
I fully admit I doubt Chris Paul is a Knick. Just think he would be a ridiculously good fit (I mean he's a HOFer) so he's a good fit with any team. Seems to me barring major injury he will be in his prime for at least as long as Melo is here.
It  
DanMetroMan : 7/26/2016 2:36 pm : link
should also be noted that 40 wins based on last years totals would put the Knicks 11th in wins in the East and 20th most wins in the NBA. What exactly would be the positive to take from that? Somehow KP is a breakout monster, Phil had a good off-season with Noah/Rose/Lee/Jennings and they still only win 8 more than last year? I don't see any realistic scenario where the Knicks win 40 games and people are happy with this past off-season. If they miss the playoffs Phil didn't do a very good job. I'm not expecting a title or title contention but playoffs or bust. You gave "long" deals to Lee and Noah because you felt this was building toward something. That something needs to include wins this season.
The Knicks will win at least 50 games this season  
Keith : 7/26/2016 2:46 pm : link
and finish in the 4 seed. They will win a round, Rose will stay relatively healthy(65 games played) and the Knicks will sign Rose to a 3 year max deal. They will continue to add talent around this core group and contend next season. My prediction.

Vin, thanks for having me. Whats your favorite NBA team this year? lol
RE: The Knicks will win at least 50 games this season  
Vin R : 7/26/2016 2:51 pm : link
In comment 13045750 Keith said:
Quote:
and finish in the 4 seed. They will win a round, Rose will stay relatively healthy(65 games played) and the Knicks will sign Rose to a 3 year max deal. They will continue to add talent around this core group and contend next season. My prediction.

Vin, thanks for having me. Whats your favorite NBA team this year? lol


Tough choice this year.. Thinking about taking my rooting talents to Golden State


Kidding.. Just watching for fun, still root for Detroit to do good
RE: RE: Again  
Deej : 7/26/2016 3:04 pm : link
In comment 13045683 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:

Jennings would have been the Knicks 3rd best player last year. He's the backup PG this year. I think they win 48-50 wins


By no measure is this correct. By PER he would have been 6th best. By WS48 he would have been 7th best, behind Calderon and Galloway. By BPM he would have been 8th best.

No, it is fair to have expectations for Jennings to be better than he was last year because of injury recovery. OTOH, there is a reason we got him for dirt cheap in a league desperate for guards who can do something.
I would make a funny title and scare the shit out of all of yous, but  
Anakim : 7/26/2016 3:58 pm : link
I don't want to give you all heart attacks
bahaha  
Enzo : 7/26/2016 4:03 pm : link
Quote:
amare Stoudemire has signed a contract with the Knicks and announced that he'll retire, the club announced.

favorite Amare moments?  
Enzo : 7/26/2016 4:12 pm : link
-hurting his back doing a trick dunk in warmups before a playoff game (which wrecked the next season)?
-punching the glass casing around the fire extinguisher in Miami?
-converting to Judaism?
-Amber Rose?
-the offseason where he allegedly grew two inches?
-his hour long documentary on Epix?
-calling someone a f*g on twitter?

He'll be missed!
RE: I would make a funny title and scare the shit out of all of yous, but  
Anakim : 7/26/2016 4:14 pm : link
In comment 13045883 Anakim said:
Quote:
I don't want to give you all heart attacks


Kristaps PorzingisVerified account
‏@kporzee
Looking for a moving company in nyc asap please.
Good for Amare, always like him.  
Keith : 7/26/2016 4:23 pm : link
The guy always busted his butt. He wasn't very lucky with injuries but that's not his fault. He always did he best to get back on the court and most guys would have quit a long time ago.
Amar'e's  
DanMetroMan : 7/26/2016 4:26 pm : link
wine bath was pretty good, claiming he was now taller after having his back properly aligned was good too
RE: favorite Amare moments?  
Greg from LI : 7/26/2016 4:29 pm : link
In comment 13045912 Enzo said:
Quote:

-converting to Judaism?


As long as it was for the right reasons - ie, not for the jokes.
RE: Good for Amare, always like him.  
Enzo : 7/26/2016 4:37 pm : link
In comment 13045927 Keith said:
Quote:
The guy always busted his butt. He wasn't very lucky with injuries but that's not his fault.

except for the two that were his fault - with both taking place during the playoffs.
Man, you've become really negative. What happened to you?  
Keith : 7/26/2016 4:38 pm : link
I'll give you the hand, but hurting his back in warmups? Everyone does that and not everyone gets hurt.
I just hope the  
Hollywood Marc : 7/26/2016 6:21 pm : link
gambling sites have the Knicks at 40 wins. I think they easily top that with somewhere from around 47-52 wins. Though I thought the same this past year and they barley bested the 28.5 I took them at.
RE: The Knicks will win at least 50 games this season  
Coach Mason : 7/26/2016 10:27 pm : link
In comment 13045750 Keith said:
Quote:
and finish in the 4 seed. They will win a round, Rose will stay relatively healthy(65 games played) and the Knicks will sign Rose to a 3 year max deal. They will continue to add talent around this core group and contend next season. My prediction.

Vin, thanks for having me. Whats your favorite NBA team this year? lol


Im rooting like heck for Rose this year but it doesnt make sense to sign him to a max deal unless he plays close to MVP Rose AND we feel the injury bug is behind him. The alternatives are just too good in Paul and Westbrook.

If we couldve went over the cap for him thats one thing but its mitigated by a 30mill cap hold.
RE: I just hope the  
Del Shofner : 7/26/2016 10:32 pm : link
In comment 13046061 Hollywood Marc said:
Quote:
gambling sites have the Knicks at 40 wins. I think they easily top that with somewhere from around 47-52 wins. Though I thought the same this past year and they barley bested the 28.5 I took them at.


I like the optimism but I think 47-52 is a little high. I'm thinking more in the 45-48 range. But who knows - let's see them play a little first.
The Amare contract was one of the 3 worst in the history of  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/27/2016 12:26 am : link
NY sports. I don't share the warm feelings for him many appear to.
Hard to see them being 9th.  
Beezer : 7/27/2016 9:57 am : link
7 or 8, sure. Anything above is bonus.

To finish 9th I'd think they'd have to lose one or a combo of Rose, Melo or Kris for half or more of the season.

A relatively healthy Knicks team, constructed this way, doesn't miss the playoffs, imo.
So if the Knicks improve by 8-10 games  
djm : 7/27/2016 10:26 am : link
And KP is a huge reason why it will be a disaster? No it won't. It will be a disappointment but the team will still be fine from an asset mgmt pov and be positioned for better things to come. They will probably do better than 40 wins but context matters here. It's all about KP. Rose is practically house money. The Knicks could win 42 games with Noah playing well. Their backcourt could struggle again and that could hold the Knicks back.

Whatever it's a not worth arguing over but disaster is a strong word to use. Disaster encompsasses a team with absolutely no hope. That wouldn't be the case here.

Knicks will hover around 45-54 wins.

RE: So if the Knicks improve by 8-10 games  
DanMetroMan : 7/27/2016 10:37 am : link
In comment 13046654 djm said:
Quote:
And KP is a huge reason why it will be a disaster? No it won't. It will be a disappointment but the team will still be fine from an asset mgmt pov and be positioned for better things to come. They will probably do better than 40 wins but context matters here. It's all about KP. Rose is practically house money. The Knicks could win 42 games with Noah playing well. Their backcourt could struggle again and that could hold the Knicks back.

Whatever it's a not worth arguing over but disaster is a strong word to use. Disaster encompsasses a team with absolutely no hope. That wouldn't be the case here.

Knicks will hover around 45-54 wins.


If KP is a monster than a lot has to go wrong for them to finish 2 games under .500. They have Carmelo Anthony, Courtney Lee, Joakim Noah, Derrick Rose, Jennings, + the 2 Euros + Lance Thomas etc etc. 40 wins is bottom 3rd of the league in wins. Yes, a disaster. Maybe it would be a disaster with a silver lining being KP but it would also almost certainly mean Phil's off-season signings were busts. Not just one. Multiple.
The  
DanMetroMan : 7/27/2016 10:42 am : link
always excellent Chris Herring on how to use Noah
Link - ( New Window )
Hey guys it's me Latrell Sprewell  
DanMetroMan : 7/27/2016 11:11 am : link
RE: The Amare contract was one of the 3 worst in the history of  
Deej : 7/27/2016 11:22 am : link
In comment 13046328 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
NY sports. I don't share the warm feelings for him many appear to.


No, it wasnt.
+1, Deej.  
yatqb : 7/27/2016 12:33 pm : link
A stupid contract, certainly, but it's not close to the worst 3.
Huh?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/27/2016 12:48 pm : link
He barely earned 20% (at best) of an intractable contract that seriously harmed the team's ability to improve itself beyond a certain level. These are the results of the 3 playoff series he played in... was injured and became ineffective, injured himself with a tantrum, and contributed next to nothing in the third series.
only bright side to  
Enzo : 7/27/2016 1:04 pm : link
that deal was that it didn't go 6 years.
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