for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Cutting the work email cord entirely while on vacation

Rick5 : 7/26/2016 6:07 pm
How many of you go without checking work email at all during vacations? I usually check it once every couple of days to clear some things out. In June, for the first time ever, I decided I wasn't going to check it at all. I lasted until Thursday of my vacation week and then checked it. Bad idea as it included an email with some moderately disappointing news. Prior to that, not checking it was liberating and I had stopped thinking about work entirely. I will be on vacation next week, and I am removing the email app from my phone's home screen. I am going to make it for my whole vacation this time. The downside is that I will surely have 100+ emails to deal with when I get back, but I think it's worth it.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: anyway, didn't mean to hijack the thread Rick  
Rick5 : 7/26/2016 8:53 pm : link
In comment 13046163 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
just adding my perspective, and in some fields it's not really feasible or in your best interest to cut the work email cord for a variety of reasons.

if you can pull it off though, do it.

I can and will. I was really just curious what others experiences have been. I had already made up my mind before starting the thread. I am not the least bit surprised that the responses cover the whole range.
I've been thinking about this alot recently  
Gap92 : 7/26/2016 9:09 pm : link
I started a new job fairly recently...4 months...informed them of my vacation beforehand. While I'm always very willing to go above and beyond with work, I've firmly decided that spending a full week with my kids without work/school/camp/daycare overrides everything work-related. Clients will live. I will set appropriate/thorough out of office email + phone messages, and if I check my email once, I will be thoroughly ashamed of myself.

As the CFO succinctly put it at a previous company when a key employee left, "well, you know what they say, cemeteries are full of 'irreplaceable' people."

It stayed with me. My time with my kids matters; nothing else comes close.

Rick5  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/26/2016 9:21 pm : link
I have a key guy who told me he wasn't taking his computer or checking messages while on vacation last fall. In our line of work, that places a huge burden on the team and potentially impacts our customers. If things slowed down and I had to make cuts he's the the first to go. It's reality today in some businesses.
Gap  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/26/2016 9:24 pm : link
Checking email occasionally doesn't need to impact time with the kids
RE: Gap  
Gap92 : 7/26/2016 9:31 pm : link
In comment 13046202 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
Checking email occasionally doesn't need to impact time with the kids


I don't disagree in general AP, but in my current role, one email will undoubtedly lead me down a wormhole of calls/emails/false urgency. I'll spare you the details. I certainly don't mean to speak generally, I just meant to speak for me. My apologies if I came across as prescribing advice /judgement for anyone other than me. This is something I struggle with, so I offered up my own conclusion as it may possibly help someone else.
I understand  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/26/2016 9:37 pm : link
I know people, in accounting for example, where it's not critical. I also know about the wormhole. It's a balancing act.
RE: Rick5  
Rick5 : 7/26/2016 10:09 pm : link
In comment 13046198 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
I have a key guy who told me he wasn't taking his computer or checking messages while on vacation last fall. In our line of work, that places a huge burden on the team and potentially impacts our customers. If things slowed down and I had to make cuts he's the the first to go. It's reality today in some businesses.

I am sure it's an issue in some places. Fortunately, nobody has to (or can) do any of my work when I am out, and I don't have to worry about job security.
I used to check it all the time  
Les in TO : 7/26/2016 10:41 pm : link
Now I bust my ass before and after vacation but I completely unplug and I love it - I try to avoid checking my phone period work, news social media
If you have to check emails on vacation, blame it on your manager  
Scyber : 7/26/2016 10:43 pm : link
If any team can't properly manage another team member being out, then it is a poorly run team. Its what I like to call the ROBAB Scenario, you have to ensure that the team can survive anyone getting Run Over By A Bus.

The only time I felt forced to check emails on vacation was when I was job hunting. I will check in on Slack when I'm out, but mostly to participate in the BS/fun rooms we have at work. I've got to keep up with the latest news posted in #pokemon.
I leave my phone and computer at home and completely disconnect  
Patrick77 : 7/26/2016 10:48 pm : link
I have out of office messages with who to contact when I am away. With my job vacation is ruined pretty quick if I start checking calls or emails. Just completely unplug and don't think about it.
Rick, for me having a "real" vacation is  
yatqb : 7/26/2016 11:40 pm : link
worth the headaches I'll face in the first week back. But it's a trade off, as you lay out.
RE: Out of Office Message  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/27/2016 12:25 am : link
In comment 13046054 NYG27 said:
Quote:
Just setup your "Out of Office" message to automatically send a message to anyone that emails you, that you are out of the office for a specific amount of time with very limited access. That you will address all emails once you return.

Do the same with your voicemail at work and you're all set!

Wow, technology allows for that?! Can you give us instructions on using a faucet next?
Thankfully for me...  
RC02XX : 7/27/2016 6:44 am : link
due to the nature of my work, I can't check substantive work emails at all during my vacation, so I'm pretty much spared of having to deal with the day-to-day work related issues when I'm away. However, I do get administrative work emails from my company and the military (HR and other personnel related issues), which I do check daily on my phone. But for the most part, these aren't ever really pressing and usually are meant more for keeping situational awareness for me while I'm away.
RE: I used to check it all the time  
Rick5 : 7/27/2016 6:59 am : link
In comment 13046278 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Now I bust my ass before and after vacation but I completely unplug and I love it - I try to avoid checking my phone period work, news social media

I dropped all social media last October. I actually deleted my facebook account. It was weird for a couple of weeks. Now I don't miss it at all and never even think about it.
I check it on vacation.  
buford : 7/27/2016 7:03 am : link
I put aside an hour in the morning to check emails. Most of it is garbage, but there are always one or two emergencies or pains in the butt that need something RIGHT NOW. It gives me a feeling of security rather than thinking about what disaster can happen when I'm off. My boss and I have that agreement to check email in the am when we are out.
RE: RE: I used to check it all the time  
Rick5 : 7/27/2016 7:23 am : link
In comment 13046361 Rick5 said:
Quote:
In comment 13046278 Les in TO said:


Quote:


Now I bust my ass before and after vacation but I completely unplug and I love it - I try to avoid checking my phone period work, news social media


I dropped all social media last October. I actually deleted my facebook account. It was weird for a couple of weeks. Now I don't miss it at all and never even think about it.

I meant general social media that doesn't have a clear focus (specifically facebook). I would never want to stop talking about the giants or interacting with people on certain music sites.
I think it depends on what you do.  
Mellowmood92 : 7/27/2016 8:24 am : link
I am not a fan of "out of office" automated messages and I've recently stopped using them, although I have a lot of co-workers who put them up when they leave at 3 PM on a Friday.

I'm senior management in my office (mid-size architectural firm) and I deal with clients a lot. Most of them don't expect a response in 30 minutes, but I'd rather either respond to major issues myself later in the day or delegate to someone who can, in the office. I don't look at checking my email for 15-20 minutes a day as a huge inconvenience on vacation - especially if I'm traveling domestically and have my cell phone anyway. We also have a policy where there's always someone else from the office copied on every email, so if I'm away - and my client / engineer / contractor, etc. emails me, there SHOULD be someone in the office to deal with it.. although that's not always the case, which is why i check it. But that's just my preference.
I sort through the crap  
WideRight : 7/27/2016 8:29 am : link
and delete everything that I'm not going to reply to, so when I get back I can focus on stuff that matters.
RE: RE: I try, but  
Beer Man : 7/27/2016 8:36 am : link
In comment 13046134 ctc in ftmyers said:
Quote:
In comment 13046129 Beer Man said:


Quote:


when you receive 60 to 100 emails daily its hard to ignore, much less relax



Really?

So if you dropped dead in the next 2 minutes the world would come to an end?

I think not.
Well that is easy for some to say. Lets say I take a week off, and by some miracle of god I don't drop dead. If during the vacation I ignored the emails notifications on my phone and didn't boot my laptop, I would start the new work week off with anywhere from 400 to 600 emails; not a very good start to a work week. Its like punishment for taking a little time off. I know some have jobs where they don't understand this scenario, but it happens to a great many of us.
I'm an early riser..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/27/2016 8:49 am : link
so I'll usually go out on the porch with a coffee, enjoy the beach or the view and plow through emails for about 30 minutes while the rest of the family is sleeping.

It is way too stressful to come back and have to wade through several hundred emails and pretty much lose another work day.
Reading this thread again this morning,  
ctc in ftmyers : 7/27/2016 8:53 am : link
Lets go at it from a different angle.

It would appear that there are a lot of anti union, pro right to work people on here.

People firing people because they won't do work for free?

I thought that went out the window a century ago.

That has got to break a few federal labor laws.

An agreement with management to work one day for free every week you are on vacation? (One hour a day every morning to check Emails).

Who the hell in their right mind negotiates a contract like that?

What is the difference between working in a factory for 12 hours a day with no overtime and bringing the factory with you in the form of mobile devices?

The only difference is the scenery changes.

How am I wrong to assume labor rights are receding in this country by reading this thread?

As I said, just a different angle.



RE: Reading this thread again this morning,  
YAJ2112 : 7/27/2016 8:54 am : link
In comment 13046437 ctc in ftmyers said:
Quote:
Lets go at it from a different angle.

It would appear that there are a lot of anti union, pro right to work people on here.

People firing people because they won't do work for free?

I thought that went out the window a century ago.

That has got to break a few federal labor laws.

An agreement with management to work one day for free every week you are on vacation? (One hour a day every morning to check Emails).

Who the hell in their right mind negotiates a contract like that?

What is the difference between working in a factory for 12 hours a day with no overtime and bringing the factory with you in the form of mobile devices?

The only difference is the scenery changes.

How am I wrong to assume labor rights are receding in this country by reading this thread?

As I said, just a different angle.




How much time at work is being spent doing things like reading/posting on BBI? Looking at e-mails for a little bit while on vacation could just be looked at as making up some of that time, no?
I look at it more..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/27/2016 8:59 am : link
as a personal responsibility thing. Look, I'm not unionized, I don't punch a clock. If I have to run out of the office to take care of personal things, nobody is giving me flack. If I want to work from home, I have that freedom.

If I start taking the stance that when I'm on vacation Im shut off, then my boss could take the stance that I need to be at a desk from 8-5. I have to take 1 hour lunches, and I need to check in whenever I leave my work area.

I've chosen to work for companies who value a balance between work and personal time and in turn, I respect that by making myself available. I don't look at checking emails while the rest of my family is sleeping as a hardship, just like if I watch a late-night game during vacation while the rest of the family has gone to bed I don't look at it as a slap. I'm not pulling the laptop out on the beach or at dinners and it is a hell of a lot more relaxing to know I'm not getting blindsided with a wall of shit by being offline for an entire week.
I'm retired  
ctc in ftmyers : 7/27/2016 9:04 am : link
so get off my lawn. The hoses and other critters have have been fed @ 6. Breakfast has been made, laundry is in. On break until horses get turned out @ 10. Then it's grocery store time. Then it must be 5 o'clock somewhere. Just because you're retired doesn't mean you don't punch a clock.

If you can be surfing the net while on work time, you definitely don't have enough pressing work to do.

Which kind of negates the idea that you have to work without getting paid. No?
I don't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/27/2016 9:09 am : link
think I see a point there.

How does an argument morph from labor rights to not having enough pressing work to do, and what does the amount of "pressing work" have to do with anything in the first place?
RE: I look at it more..  
ctc in ftmyers : 7/27/2016 9:09 am : link
In comment 13046446 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
as a personal responsibility thing. Look, I'm not unionized, I don't punch a clock. If I have to run out of the office to take care of personal things, nobody is giving me flack. If I want to work from home, I have that freedom.

If I start taking the stance that when I'm on vacation Im shut off, then my boss could take the stance that I need to be at a desk from 8-5. I have to take 1 hour lunches, and I need to check in whenever I leave my work area.

I've chosen to work for companies who value a balance between work and personal time and in turn, I respect that by making myself available. I don't look at checking emails while the rest of my family is sleeping as a hardship, just like if I watch a late-night game during vacation while the rest of the family has gone to bed I don't look at it as a slap. I'm not pulling the laptop out on the beach or at dinners and it is a hell of a lot more relaxing to know I'm not getting blindsided with a wall of shit by being offline for an entire week.


Fatman

Now that is a reasonable "contract" that works out for both.

You are not being expected to work without some sort of compensation in return.

In fact, I would say it works out in your favor.
it clearly depends  
UConn4523 : 7/27/2016 9:10 am : link
on your company and where you are at within said company.

My company promotes health/wellness and when you are off, you are OFF. Outside of our SVP's and executives, the rest of us are urged to take all of our time off (which is thankfully a ton) and aren't required to check in while out. We have a good out of office system to make sure nothing slips through the cracks while we are out as well.
RE: Reading this thread again this morning,  
pjcas18 : 7/27/2016 9:11 am : link
In comment 13046437 ctc in ftmyers said:
Quote:
Lets go at it from a different angle.

It would appear that there are a lot of anti union, pro right to work people on here.

People firing people because they won't do work for free?

I thought that went out the window a century ago.

That has got to break a few federal labor laws.

An agreement with management to work one day for free every week you are on vacation? (One hour a day every morning to check Emails).

Who the hell in their right mind negotiates a contract like that?

What is the difference between working in a factory for 12 hours a day with no overtime and bringing the factory with you in the form of mobile devices?

The only difference is the scenery changes.

How am I wrong to assume labor rights are receding in this country by reading this thread?

As I said, just a different angle.




For most professionals/white collar workers there is no FLSA, and I don't want to make it sound like a complaint.

But there is no 40 hour work week for most exempt jobs (sales) and there is no union. And it's better that way for everyone.

side note question  
UConn4523 : 7/27/2016 9:13 am : link
I'm guessing most of the married guys on here have wives who work. Those that do and also have kids, did your wives work on maternity? Did their companies crumble while they were out for 2-3+ months?

My wife freaked out about the work thing while she was pregnant but finally caved once we had the baby and decided she wasn't going to check email at all while out for 12 weeks. She prepped her team, delegated, and took her well earned time off. If she can do that for 3 months then I see no reason why I can't do that for a 1 week vacation.
RE: I don't..  
ctc in ftmyers : 7/27/2016 9:15 am : link
In comment 13046454 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
think I see a point there.

How does an argument morph from labor rights to not having enough pressing work to do, and what does the amount of "pressing work" have to do with anything in the first place?


The point is that if you don't have enough work to keep you busy at work, Why would you need to be available to not be busy when off of work?
All jobs are different...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/27/2016 9:19 am : link
work doesn't have to mean that you are slammed from 9-5 every day, and if you aren't you not serve a purpose.

I mean there isn't much wiggle room for a guy on the production line. He's doing a repeatable task over and over and his only time away from that comes in the form of breaks. For my position, a lot of it is based on overseeing projects, directing/managing others on critical decisions, heading up meetings and interacting with customers. There's actually quite a bit of down time.

Checking email or even having the occasional phone conference on vacation is simply a way of maintaining the work schedule so that I'm not behind when I return.
PJ  
ctc in ftmyers : 7/27/2016 9:33 am : link
I understand FLSA very well.

When I made upper middle mgmt in the Fd, we could go union whenever we wanted.

Do to basically an arrangement like Fatman has, that rank still to this day is not union. The benefits outweighed having to come it for a meeting 1 or 2 times a month on a day off. And then only if it didn't fall on your shift.

Labor and administrative law was a graduate class.

Of course arguing one side, then the other were good exercises.

Having been involved in labor/management negotiations for almost 2 decades before the course, I excelled in whatever side I was on when negotiation exercises were held. It was like leading lambs to slaughter.
Ctc  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/27/2016 9:39 am : link
I was referring to a well compensated employee with a flexible work schedule. He's not keeping a time card.
RE: PJ  
pjcas18 : 7/27/2016 9:41 am : link
In comment 13046500 ctc in ftmyers said:
Quote:
I understand FLSA very well.

When I made upper middle mgmt in the Fd, we could go union whenever we wanted.

Do to basically an arrangement like Fatman has, that rank still to this day is not union. The benefits outweighed having to come it for a meeting 1 or 2 times a month on a day off. And then only if it didn't fall on your shift.

Labor and administrative law was a graduate class.

Of course arguing one side, then the other were good exercises.

Having been involved in labor/management negotiations for almost 2 decades before the course, I excelled in whatever side I was on when negotiation exercises were held. It was like leading lambs to slaughter.


I'm speaking specifically of non-labor, non-municipal, public service jobs - aka corporate America.

there are very few unions and very little care paid to work/life balance. it's all right to work and no there is nothing federally preventing anyone from firing you for any reason as long as its not discrimination (which is very hard to prove).

People make choices about both survival and comfort, first you want to survive (and feed your family) next you want it to be as comfortable for you doing so, so you make choices.

Besides, I love my family more than anything else in this world, but I strongly feel like we don't need to spend every waking minute together, even on a family vacation. Most of the time depending on what we do and where we are - for example if we're at the beach renting a house on the Cape, at night after dinner I'll pour a glass of scotch, maybe fire up the computer, respond to any emails I need to, check up on the latest world events, and shut it down.

seems perfectly normal and acceptable to me, and expected.
What Fat Man said  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/27/2016 9:42 am : link
.
When I'm away for a week  
Matt M. : 7/27/2016 9:45 am : link
I'll check my email once a day for about 10 minutes. This allows me to a) be prepared and organized when I return, b) reply to any pressing questions, and c) stay in touch with my staff if needed.
Problem with ignoring them when you are away  
Hades07 : 7/27/2016 9:46 am : link
Is you can spend the whole first day back just muddling through what is in there. I suggest if you have somebody there you can trust and is authorized to see the same emails you get. Have that person manage your inbox. Clear out unimportant stuff. Summarize the ones that have information you need but don't need to respond. Put the ones that need a response from you in a folder for you to look at when you get back. Then you can check out while you are away.
And I say that in the spirit  
Matt M. : 7/27/2016 9:46 am : link
of FatMan's and pjcas' comments. It is not about being married to the job or not knowing how to enjoy oneself or neglecting the family. It is simply taking a little bit of down time each day, as a lot of what I do is via email.
Last December  
Mike in Long Beach : 7/27/2016 10:15 am : link
I had to set up a Member Alert for our customers that there'd be modified hours during the upcoming holiday break....

Did so from a bar in the middle of a pool in Puerto Rico.

Our generation often has the luxury of working from home when we need to, but we also often have the burden of being on-call 24/7 - 365. It's a very new and weird dynamic.

For the most part, yes, you need to set up some boundaries. Perhaps tell them that you will check in once every 3 days in case of an emergency or something, but for the most part, you should enjoy your vacation and be off the grid.
I check it when I have a quiet moment.  
Section331 : 7/27/2016 10:25 am : link
It's not a big deal, and doesn't add to my stress. I want to make sure that I don't have clients who need something. I can easily forward it to someone who can help them.
I check it for ME, not for anyone else.  
Aaroninma : 7/27/2016 10:39 am : link
Im a buyer and GM for a small chain of wine/cheese shops in Central MA, we have like 50 employees total. When anyone, let alone me, takes vaca, its felt.

There will always be things that come up that can be handled with 10 mins of shooting off an email, a quick call to the store, etc. Checking in, every now an then allows me to fix a small issue instead of coming back to a bigger one next week.

It actually allows me to enjoy my vacation more.
I have to be available 24\7\365  
PeterinAtlanta : 7/27/2016 10:52 am : link
They give me a phone with email and I have to answer it.
RE: Reading this thread again this morning,  
buford : 7/27/2016 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13046437 ctc in ftmyers said:
Quote:
Lets go at it from a different angle.

It would appear that there are a lot of anti union, pro right to work people on here.

People firing people because they won't do work for free?

I thought that went out the window a century ago.

That has got to break a few federal labor laws.

An agreement with management to work one day for free every week you are on vacation? (One hour a day every morning to check Emails).

Who the hell in their right mind negotiates a contract like that?

What is the difference between working in a factory for 12 hours a day with no overtime and bringing the factory with you in the form of mobile devices?

The only difference is the scenery changes.

How am I wrong to assume labor rights are receding in this country by reading this thread?

As I said, just a different angle.




ctc, most of us don't work union jobs and don't want to. And business goes on whether you are on vacation or not. Unless it's an official holiday, clients are working and that means you are working. I don't think there is any right not to have to check email on vacation or time off. This isn't France, for heaven's sake.
RE: RE: I don't..  
buford : 7/27/2016 12:52 pm : link
In comment 13046467 ctc in ftmyers said:
Quote:
In comment 13046454 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


think I see a point there.

How does an argument morph from labor rights to not having enough pressing work to do, and what does the amount of "pressing work" have to do with anything in the first place?



The point is that if you don't have enough work to keep you busy at work, Why would you need to be available to not be busy when off of work?


Because we are not seamstresses in a sweatshop. Stuff comes up at the last minute all the time. Outside occurrences effect our day. Clients have last minute requests. Shit happens.
RE: When I'm away for a week  
jpennyva : 7/27/2016 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13046530 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I'll check my email once a day for about 10 minutes. This allows me to a) be prepared and organized when I return, b) reply to any pressing questions, and c) stay in touch with my staff if needed.


Exactly! I like deleting the junk before I get back and the few minutes a day it takes to do it is worthwhile to me. I also occasionally get personal email at work and might want to see one of those.
It is a sidebar to the discussion here..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/27/2016 1:34 pm : link
but being on vacation isn't what it used to be where you'd send away to AAA to get the latest TripMaps, bring your Traveler's Checks to pay for stuff, and only have a terribly expensive hotel room phone or the pay phone on the corner to use to call people.

With technology advances, there's a good chance that as you are "relaxing", you are also taking selfies, Facebooking, texting and sending personal email, all while standing in front of the Hoover Dam or another landmark. Or maybe instead of reading a book at the beach, you're reading the Kindle or on social media.

Tying some work into that doesn't seem so onerous anymore. And I'm still not really sure what the point was above in regards to unions and negotiating contracts with your employer. It isn't the 40's anymore.
For me,  
Randy in CT : 7/27/2016 1:38 pm : link
family comes first so no worky work when vacationing. Unless it is dire, figure it out yourself.
When I'm on vacation  
Davisian : 7/27/2016 1:53 pm : link
Most grownups I'm with really wish I brought my work with me.

RE: I check my work email on vacations  
Chris in Philly : 7/27/2016 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13046098 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
because due to modern accessibility people expect an immediate response to everything and feel like their unimportant bullshit is the most important thing to mankind.

if you don't reply in 5 minutes or worse they get your out of office message they email your boss who then has to find someone else to help and it just creates this enormous pile of shit attached to your name. God forbid your boss is out too and the shit reaches your bosses boss, that's never good and even though companies tout a "work life balance" they don't mean it or care about it, especially the higher up you get on the org chart.

So reality is no, you really can't take a work free vacation, if you're in some hugely unimportant technology related fields.

But...once you've become seasoned at your job, you find ways to respond subtly to make it seem like you care and are "working on something" but you're on the golf course or at Disney, or deep sea fishing, etc. and truthfully don't give a shit about the problem this person has but you prefer to not get hassled about it.

it's part art, part science, but it really helps keep the shit off your back.



This is like a classic Greg Giraldo rant. Bravo, sir...
RE: RE: I check my work email on vacations  
pjcas18 : 7/27/2016 2:13 pm : link
In comment 13047128 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 13046098 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


because due to modern accessibility people expect an immediate response to everything and feel like their unimportant bullshit is the most important thing to mankind.

if you don't reply in 5 minutes or worse they get your out of office message they email your boss who then has to find someone else to help and it just creates this enormous pile of shit attached to your name. God forbid your boss is out too and the shit reaches your bosses boss, that's never good and even though companies tout a "work life balance" they don't mean it or care about it, especially the higher up you get on the org chart.

So reality is no, you really can't take a work free vacation, if you're in some hugely unimportant technology related fields.

But...once you've become seasoned at your job, you find ways to respond subtly to make it seem like you care and are "working on something" but you're on the golf course or at Disney, or deep sea fishing, etc. and truthfully don't give a shit about the problem this person has but you prefer to not get hassled about it.

it's part art, part science, but it really helps keep the shit off your back.





This is like a classic Greg Giraldo rant. Bravo, sir...


He was kind of a hero of mine.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner