Tell fanatic Cowboys' fanboy we are dying to hear more from him and Dallas Nation about how their draft "steal" Gregory is going to tear up our franchise LT Flowers bwahaha.
I did not like his loss of self composure and how it reflected on him, the team, the coach and the Giants as an organization. He should have been pulled from the game after the second flare up, long before the attempted head ramming. Norman got inside his head and Odell lost self control and retaliated for whatever provoked him.
I do not appreciate Odell's off field style at all - same with other flamboyant players. I guess it is a cultural and age gap thing. But I don't care for it at all and have less respect for the person with that behavior. Simple truth. Some won't like that open honesty, but, there it is.
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
on from the like/dislike childlike threads...pretty juvenile. The big question is if he is going to use his talent in a "team oriented" manner and win football games to present opportunities to capture championships. Right now he is just a talented guy who can't control himself in games. Let's see the maturity and professional behavior this season and less of the little bitch and kid antics...yeah he's young, time to grow up. Guess he has to if he wants to get paid.
Needs to admittedly tone his ego down. And keep his yap closed.
He should study Jerry rice's off field demeanor and style if he wants to be like him.
And yes Odell behaved badly against Carolina. That was beyond self defense.
I do think sir Charles got this one right.......
BUT, I don't see a guy like Owens or Moss here. Not yet at least. He's not criminal. He's not hurting his team for the most part. He's famous and he's tabloid fodder.
is a little too self-promoting and needs to mature.
Self-defense c'mon, I mean norman started it and the refs didn't help but he tried to take the guy's head off!
OMG! A celebrity professional athlete is too self-promoting? Oh no! How dare he try to continue to brand himself to reap the benefit of his popularity.
these threads are so damn lame. It's so damn funny how alike even grown assed adults are like teenage girls and bored housewives they complain about with regards to how the lives and actions of celebrities have even a sliver of impact on their lives.
OBJ has put up numbers and production level unseen by any players in their first two years. He (along with Eli) has basically been the only thing worth much on this team. Yes, he's had a few moments that are forgettable on the field but none off the field, yet all these grown adults complain about his lifestyle like how teenage girls complain about their favorite popstars. Grow up, girls.
showboating has invited headhunting before and he has been affected by it. He went whacky in Carolina, but he brings it on himself.
I was already hoping Coughlin was going to be replaced, but that game was a pathetic show of a head coach and I liked him a lot less after. it was already obvious about Odell prior to that game
As long as he doesn't beat his spouse or girlfriend, Â
on from the like/dislike childlike threads...pretty juvenile. The big question is if he is going to use his talent in a "team oriented" manner and win football games to present opportunities to capture championships. Right now he is just a talented guy who can't control himself in games. Let's see the maturity and professional behavior this season and less of the little bitch and kid antics...yeah he's young, time to grow up. Guess he has to if he wants to get paid.
Other than the meltdown against Carolina, please tell me about the other games in which OBJ couldn't control himself? Please tell me about all of the other times he showed a lack of maturity and professional behavior? Please tell me about the other times he acted like a little bitch and put his kid antics on display?
Personally, I don't care what he does in the offseason as long as he doesn't break the law. He's a bona fide celebrity in an age where celebrity can come way too easily, but as long as he continues to produce on the field he can go full-on "Instant Face" for all I care.
As a fan make your choice you're not picking strawberries.
I don't like his hair, I don't like some of his comments.
I WOULD HATE HIM IF HE CHANGED BECAUSE OF MY OR YOUR COMMENTS!!!
OD..as the saying goes about these negative commentors..."F--k'em and feed 'em beans" Just do your thing and play. The coaches will aim you in the right direction....on the filed!
for his actions in the Carolina game, but the more than came out about the Panthers wielding a bat on the field pregame and having one of their practice squad players taunting the Giants while they were doing warmups, and then the general dickiness Norman showed the entire year and I became less angry at Odell and more bewildered at how the league allowed the Panthers to bring a bat on the field for multiple games last year.
No doubt Odell needs to mature, but that game was the perfect storm of having ridiculous taunts, the defender opposite you body slam you on the 2nd play of the game, and playing an undefeated team.
Who is remembered more fondly, Jerry Rice or Randy Moss?
Yes I believe in the responsibility of a Pro Athlete, a role model, etc to be better than that. We expect it from our military, our policemen/policewomen, etc and they don't have the fame or the money that pro athletes do.
It may just be his kryptonite. Norman can't compete with him physically so he got in his head. It's sad that is part of the game but it is. It could very well be the one thing that stops him from being the best ever. Can OBJ mature out of it?
All that being said there is no reason he can't fix this. It can very easily be looked back on as immaturity. OBJ vs Norman twice a year will be interesting to watch and will hopefully do great things for both of their career. If OBJ can fix that part of his game, which I believe is his biggest hurdle, he could be the best ever and Norman would end up an afterthought.
is a little too self-promoting and needs to mature.
Self-defense c'mon, I mean norman started it and the refs didn't help but he tried to take the guy's head off!
OMG! A celebrity professional athlete is too self-promoting? Oh no! How dare he try to continue to brand himself to reap the benefit of his popularity.
Nice overreaction, football is a team sport, the guys more concerned with themselves over the team, ala the Carolina game don't win!
Who is remembered more fondly, Jerry Rice or Randy Moss?
Yes I believe in the responsibility of a Pro Athlete, a role model, etc to be better than that. We expect it from our military, our policemen/policewomen, etc and they don't have the fame or the money that pro athletes do.
It may just be his kryptonite. Norman can't compete with him physically so he got in his head. It's sad that is part of the game but it is. It could very well be the one thing that stops him from being the best ever. Can OBJ mature out of it?
All that being said there is no reason he can't fix this. It can very easily be looked back on as immaturity. OBJ vs Norman twice a year will be interesting to watch and will hopefully do great things for both of their career. If OBJ can fix that part of his game, which I believe is his biggest hurdle, he could be the best ever and Norman would end up an afterthought.
I respected Rice, but felt like Moss was a more physically gifted player.
He is a young player who was fighting back, I admit he lost it, and I would have benched him, but I guess I'd rather have him fight back than just take it and become invisible. To me it showed that he wants to win bad, and considers himself the best. His ego got the best of him, but ego is what sets players apart. To sulk away and take it would have sent an equally bad signal, almost a defeatist thing.
He learned his lesson and won't do it again. At lest the experience happened in a meaningless game. This year he will just bear down quietly and burn Norma's butt.
I think the competitive nature of OBJ got the better of him. I think he'll mature this year and if we have Cruz around, he'll also be a positive impact on him, as well. The refs won't let that escalate again this year. It will be interesting to see how the Washington contests go down this year. OBJ needs to learn how to keep Norman's hands off of him, because he's also a grabber. I think OBJ will let his play speak for him this year. We'll see how mature he is after the first game with him, win or lose.
Yes I believe in the responsibility of a Pro Athlete, a role model, etc to be better than that. We expect it from our military, our policemen/policewomen, etc and they don't have the fame or the money that pro athletes do.
is a little too self-promoting and needs to mature.
Self-defense c'mon, I mean norman started it and the refs didn't help but he tried to take the guy's head off!
OMG! A celebrity professional athlete is too self-promoting? Oh no! How dare he try to continue to brand himself to reap the benefit of his popularity.
Nice overreaction, football is a team sport, the guys more concerned with themselves over the team, ala the Carolina game don't win!
Sure thing, bro. Because he was the cause of the Carolina loss and the other losses. Do you even watch our games?
I felt like that game specifically was a time where better coaching would have taken him out of the game and taught him a lesson. He didn't get that coaching, but I think it would have avoided a lot of the "get off my lawn" stuff he's had to deal with. and it could have helped avoid the suspension.
I had no dislike of Coughlin, but I cannot imagine, even remotely, Belichick or Parcells (for example) not noticing that feud escalating and removing the player for a few plays.
Anyway, my affinity is toward more firey emotional players. It's part of the reason I liked LT so much and why I loved guys like Armstead, Shockey, Jacobs, Rolle, etc.
is a little too self-promoting and needs to mature.
Self-defense c'mon, I mean norman started it and the refs didn't help but he tried to take the guy's head off!
OMG! A celebrity professional athlete is too self-promoting? Oh no! How dare he try to continue to brand himself to reap the benefit of his popularity.
Nice overreaction, football is a team sport, the guys more concerned with themselves over the team, ala the Carolina game don't win!
Haha come on bro! The guy was practically in tears when he thought the team quit during that Carolina game. He may be flamboyant and a little immature, but for fucks sake, he obviously cares a TON about winning and losing. He's all heart and busts his tail for himself and the team. Stop questioning that.
What kind of Giant fan dislikes this guy? Are you guys crazy!!?
Here's a quote from Odell in article about his camp Â
“I wanted to do one back home [in New Orleans] as well, but this is my first one so New York’s gonna be my home for a long time, so I felt like might as well start here and then go back home,’’ Beckham said. “Kinda see how this went and obviously it turned out great, so looking forward to doing many more.’’
Sounds to me like a guy who loves his team and city.
I felt like that game specifically was a time where better coaching would have taken him out of the game and taught him a lesson. He didn't get that coaching, but I think it would have avoided a lot of the "get off my lawn" stuff he's had to deal with. and it could have helped avoid the suspension.
I had no dislike of Coughlin, but I cannot imagine, even remotely, Belichick or Parcells (for example) not noticing that feud escalating and removing the player for a few plays.
Anyway, my affinity is toward more firey emotional players. It's part of the reason I liked LT so much and why I loved guys like Armstead, Shockey, Jacobs, Rolle, etc.
I think Coughlin helped seal his fate that day. A guy who claims to be in complete control claims not to have known that his best player is losing it to the point that he can't make plays or focus on the game. Time to go Tom.
but as a fan I defended him and still do. He was goaded the entire game, pre-game the other team had practice players on the field with baseball bats talking shit, and they effectively got into his head.
It was a big learning day for OBJ.
I doubt it happens again.
Yuuuuuuuge TC fan here and he didn't do his job that day, step in, take OBJ out and talk to him/bench him.
wasn't a good day for anyone, especially OBJ. OBJ lost it and our disciplinarian coach didn't do his job, and I'm not even going to get into the refs.
And oh how the years make people forget things. Jerry Rice was known to be selfish and pretty immature himself on the field, so I'm not sure where this idea that he was the consummate professional comes from. To use him as an example of what OBJ should be, come on now.
As far as people talking about his off the field life, who gives a flying fuck how he lives his life as long as he's a law abiding citizen, who is there for the team on game days?
The first is that instead of learning from the Panther game he seems justified in his actions and even had the nerve to take a swipe at his teammates in the recent GQ article. That's alarming.
A lot of players celebrate when they score but his theatrical dances while his teammates are standing there waiting to celebrate with him is just awkward. I'd like to see less of that.
All that being said Odell is 23. He's one of the best players in the league. The organization will do everything they can to keep him and facilitate his growth as a young man. It's all up to him and I think he's capable of being a legendary player for this franchise.
TD celebrations were going on well before Rice and Bavaro with their more subdued takes. Some of them were so elaborate that the NFL stepped in and put the kibosh on them, leading to the No Fun League moniker. Ditto for sack celebrations.
Regardless, the bottom line is that OBJ is an extremely dynamic, ridiculously productive WR who happens to be a fairly typical representative of his generation and their embrace of celebrity and social media. There is absolutely no evidence that he's a bad teammate or a "me-first" guy. Other than one unfortunate incident, there's also no evidence that he's a bad guy on the field or off of it, or that he can't handle the fame that he so richly deserves.
OBJ gets paid to play football, and so far he's shown that he's worth every penny (and then some). He's not paid to be a role model. He's not paid to stifle his natural exuberance or love of the game. He's not paid to be anything other than what he is - one of the best damned WRs I've ever seen. The Giants are lucky to have him.
I never liked grandstanders, I don't care how good they are. I prefer people who don't act like every Touchdown is their first. Like Shockey, I tolerate him and celebrate his production.
Odell has shown thus far into his career that he is a relentless competitor who never takes time off from trying to get better. He wants to be the greatest ever and he wants to win. Losing his composure against a dude who was goading and threatening him on one Sunday afternoon changes none of that for me.
He is a lion. Give me a player like him every single day of the week. He busts his ass and works as hard as anyone in the sport.
I would mostly agree. Ridiculous that people are complaining about OBJ. There are some things he needs to learn about handling fame and not talking too much, but so benign compared to what I have seen from other wr divas.
Tim Duncan's of the world, pretty rare birds. Most players of Odell's talent are egomaniacs -- he has an ego so be it.
Plenty of athletes play with an edge--Micheal Jordan talked shit, LT played with an edge and was no saint. Deion was flashy. They were still effective.
When OBJ hurts Giants with his behavior and his antics in a meaningful way, the holier than thou crowd can then rightfully complain.
he has an image to uphold (whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant) and him staying firm on his stance with the Panther game doesn't necessarily mean he didn't learn his lesson. He feels he stood up for himself and he isn't going to apologize for it, which doesn't mean he didn't learn from the experience.
I think far too often fans interpret player quotes far to literally and only see things as black and white when its everything but. Its all gray and we know little to nothing about what really goes on.
To me, Odell right now is larger than life from an NFL standpoint and he's experienced the highs of fame, with the lows of being a target. He's a celebrity now, in NYC no less, and he's playing that part. If he played on a team I hated, I'm sure I'd dislike him, but until he actually commits a crime or destroys the morale of this team, I have nothing to complain about with him.
I wish he had not handled the Norman situation that way. Â
But a lot of how I'll consider him as a man, and I suppose yes, it will carry over into how I feel about him in blue, will have to do with the first time the Giants play the Redskins this season.
Everybody deserves a second chance to prove themselves after screwing up. It's about growing ... the way I see it.
about Rice when your post jogged my memory into action. You are absolutely right in one respect: Rice and probably that entire 9ers offense bitched and moaned and got more chicken shit PI calls on defenders than any set of receivers in league history.
Your post made me reflect on how much I hated that about the 9ers, they were akin to soccer floppers almost with their constant pointing.
Funny thing two was they ran borderline illegal pick routes more than anyone and were great at it. Nowadays they are called "rub" routes but back then they were picks and illegal.
but as a fan I defended him and still do. He was goaded the entire game, pre-game the other team had practice players on the field with baseball bats talking shit, and they effectively got into his head.
It was a big learning day for OBJ.
I doubt it happens again.
Yuuuuuuuge TC fan here and he didn't do his job that day, step in, take OBJ out and talk to him/bench him.
When I think back to that pre-game nonsense, it baffles me that the Panthers organization got away with doing it. I suppose baseball bats are benign when it comes to such a violent game. Wonder if they'd have taken it a notch further - wielding toy swords, or even toy guns - how it might have gone.
Taunting opposition in pre-game with baseball bats ... pretty fucking amazing it was allowed to happen, and at OUR stadium! Nuts.
Rice is still a good example of a hard worker and a guy who kept his nose clean off the field. Of course Rice is not perfect. Compare that to Owens, Moss, Carter and Harrison, Rice's closest production peers.
I would mostly agree. Ridiculous that people are complaining about OBJ. There are some things he needs to learn about handling fame and not talking too much, but so benign compared to what I have seen from other wr divas.
Tim Duncan's of the world, pretty rare birds. Most players of Odell's talent are egomaniacs -- he has an ego so be it.
Plenty of athletes play with an edge--Micheal Jordan talked shit, LT played with an edge and was no saint. Deion was flashy. They were still effective.
When OBJ hurts Giants with his behavior and his antics in a meaningful way, the holier than thou crowd can then rightfully complain.
I don't think he will give them that chance.....
I agree, my friend. And as football fans, we've known that the WR position is one filled with egos, and why not? These guys have to believe in themselves to an extreme degree that they are the best out there to make those catches against some of the best defenders in the world.
but that was the only game he ever did anything like that, so, why would I not love the best player on the Giants because he lost his head and tried to kill an asshole? Water under the bridge. This is not the 70s or the 80s, if you dont like his self promoting personality maybe you are expecting NFL stars to act the way players acted 30 or 40 years ago.
I did not like his loss of self composure and how it reflected on him, the team, the coach and the Giants as an organization. He should have been pulled from the game after the second flare up, long before the attempted head ramming. Norman got inside his head and Odell lost self control and retaliated for whatever provoked him.
I do not appreciate Odell's off field style at all - same with other flamboyant players. I guess it is a cultural and age gap thing. But I don't care for it at all and have less respect for the person with that behavior. Simple truth. Some won't like that open honesty, but, there it is.
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
Seriously, it's 2016, and athletes are allowed to have personalities. They're allowed to have opinions of their own and do the things they want to do, good or bad, whether or not you like it. Just be happy he's not out getting tanked every night, beating women, and getting DUI's. I swear some people just find things to bitch about.
Rice is still a good example of a hard worker and a guy who kept his nose clean off the field. Of course Rice is not perfect. Compare that to Owens, Moss, Carter and Harrison, Rice's closest production peers.
But can't this be said about OBJ as well? That he's a hard worker and a guy who kept (and is keeping) his nose clean off the field?
Unless we're going to say that enjoying being young, rich, and famous isn't keeping one's nose clean, I don't see OBJ doing anything off the field that's alarming other than to people (bunch of get off my lawn types), who don't like his lifestyle.
is a little too self-promoting and needs to mature.
Self-defense c'mon, I mean norman started it and the refs didn't help but he tried to take the guy's head off!
OMG! A celebrity professional athlete is too self-promoting? Oh no! How dare he try to continue to brand himself to reap the benefit of his popularity.
Nice overreaction, football is a team sport, the guys more concerned with themselves over the team, ala the Carolina game don't win!
Sure thing, bro. Because he was the cause of the Carolina loss and the other losses. Do you even watch our games?
Check the thread it's "do you like him a little less" and I just made a point where you turn it into an attack. Oh and by the way he did drop a TD pass in that game maybe because he was unfocused due to being more concerned with showing up norman. Anyway it's an opinion thread not right or wrong if you like him more for that so be it.
Rice is still a good example of a hard worker and a guy who kept his nose clean off the field. Of course Rice is not perfect. Compare that to Owens, Moss, Carter and Harrison, Rice's closest production peers.
But can't this be said about OBJ as well? That he's a hard worker and a guy who kept (and is keeping) his nose clean off the field?
Unless we're going to say that enjoying being young, rich, and famous isn't keeping one's nose clean, I don't see OBJ doing anything off the field that's alarming other than to people (bunch of get off my lawn types), who don't like his lifestyle.
That's my take too, fans want their cake while eating it too and don't realize how common this is. I'm not excusing his actions but this will likely be a tiny blip on Odells career. But hey, we could have a guy like Josh Gordon instead..
we have one of the best WRs in the NFL -- and maybe one of the best WRs of all times -- and he shows passion, desire, and a little eccentricity; what's the problem?
I was completely shocked by his behavior that day vs. Norman. I've never seen anything remotely like it in all the years I've watched the NFL and hope to never see this again.
His off-field antics are harmless. Doesn't reflect bad on the Giants at all. Let him have some fun.
He's the most dynamic player the Giants have had since LT, IMO. A few games w/o incident and all will be forgiven. I'm sure other teams will try their best to get Odell to flip out and lose his edge.
Check the thread it's "do you like him a little less" and I just made a point where you turn it into an attack. Oh and by the way he did drop a TD pass in that game maybe because he was unfocused due to being more concerned with showing up norman. Anyway it's an opinion thread not right or wrong if you like him more for that so be it.
First off, I was giving you shit for saying he's too self-promoting. He's a celebrity and trying to establish a brand, so why not be self-promoting. And second, how do you know he dropped the TD pass because he was more focused on showing up Norman? Opinions are one thing, making baseless assertion is another. And if you watched the game, there were far more issues with that game than OBJ alone.
I've never seen anything remotely like it in all the years I've watched the NFL and hope to never see this again.
I've never heard of another team bringing a taunting prop like a bat on the field pre-game, wielded by a sweatpants-wearing practice squad player to boot.
There were a lot of things I saw in that game that I had never seen or rarely seen, including having a player bodyslam another guy right in front of the ref without a penalty getting thrown.
But it is absolutely mind-boggling that the Panthers brought a bat on the field - and people may not know this, but practice squad guys aren't even supposed to be on the field at away games. I believe that violates a rule.
My only caution with Odell is the tabloid fodder. Links with kardashians. And becoming 'too famous'.......
So far so good. But I think he runs the risk of too much celebrity before he earns the hardware. I'd also hope he doesn't run his mouth about Norman anymore.
I never liked grandstanders, I don't care how good they are. I prefer people who don't act like every Touchdown is their first. Like Shockey, I tolerate him and celebrate his production.
Hopefully, he can mature into someone I respect.
DUCK!
It's natural to want to "like" athletes and other performers Â
we admire, but let's face it, we know little about them. I love Odell's talent, he is a joy to watch. The performance against the the Panthers was definitely frustrating, mainly because he was hurting the team, but I chalk it up to a young player learning a lesson. If it happens again, I'll be a little concerned.
Wayyy more after the incident. Showed he's a fighter, not a pretty boy that was going to be intimidated by slurs, pregame bats and bullying. And I bet players around the league respected him way more after it too.
He cant lose his mind like that again, but one time was good to put future defenses on notice that hes not a punk.
I've never seen anything remotely like it in all the years I've watched the NFL and hope to never see this again.
I've never heard of another team bringing a taunting prop like a bat on the field pre-game, wielded by a sweatpants-wearing practice squad player to boot.
There were a lot of things I saw in that game that I had never seen or rarely seen, including having a player bodyslam another guy right in front of the ref without a penalty getting thrown.
But it is absolutely mind-boggling that the Panthers brought a bat on the field - and people may not know this, but practice squad guys aren't even supposed to be on the field at away games. I believe that violates a rule.
Exactly. If you're being threatened with weapons before the game and body slammed during the game, you're not gonna invite the guy over for Sunday biscuits.
I was completely shocked by his behavior that day vs. Norman. I've never seen anything remotely like it in all the years I've watched the NFL and hope to never see this again.
His off-field antics are harmless. Doesn't reflect bad on the Giants at all. Let him have some fun.
He's the most dynamic player the Giants have had since LT, IMO. A few games w/o incident and all will be forgiven. I'm sure other teams will try their best to get Odell to flip out and lose his edge.
So unless you've totally missed this part of Gross Blau Oberst's post, which you stated you agree with:
Quote:
I do not appreciate Odell's off field style at all - same with other flamboyant players. I guess it is a cultural and age gap thing. But I don't care for it at all and have less respect for the person with that behavior. Simple truth. Some won't like that open honesty, but, there it is.
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
You're sort of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
And with your last sentence ("A few games w/o incident and all will be forgiven."), you make it sound like he regularly has incidents. What is there to forgive when for the most part, he doesn't have issues on the field beyond being passionate.
Wayyy more after the incident. Showed he's a fighter, not a pretty boy that was going to be intimidated by slurs, pregame bats and bullying. And I bet players around the league respected him way more after it too.
He cant lose his mind like that again, but one time was good to put future defenses on notice that hes not a punk.
this is beyond stupid. YOu put defenses on notice by BEATING them with your play. Catching the easy TD, not by acting like an idiot
My only caution with Odell is the tabloid fodder. Links with kardashians. And becoming 'too famous'.......
So far so good. But I think he runs the risk of too much celebrity before he earns the hardware. I'd also hope he doesn't run his mouth about Norman anymore.
All mostly benign though.
Eh...I'm not too concerned. Let the young man live it up while he is the toast of the league and town. And who he associates with may be distasteful to many (others may find it just as distasteful if he was siding up to people like Trump or Giuliani, etc.), but as you state, most of what he does is benign.
Shockey was sketchy about doing his actual job to the point where his presence became a net negative despite his enormous talent; this was borne out by how the team played one he was removed from it.
Beckham by all accounts does his job, and he obviously does it extremely well. If he were removed from the picture it's difficult to imagine the team playing better.
Do you tolerate the clownish behavior and move forward. As long as he doesn't incur personal fouls (which has been a problem at times) the clown act is harmless. Showing up opponents is classless, but he isn't being paid to be classy.
My only concern would be that there is more or less an unspoken bounty on him because of it. You can tell that there are a lot of guys in the league that want to be the guy that shot Jesse James.
You're sort of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
And with your last sentence ("A few games w/o incident and all will be forgiven."), you make it sound like he regularly has incidents. What is there to forgive when for the most part, he doesn't have issues on the field beyond being passionate.
Thought about it some more and decided his off field stuff isn't bad at all for a young man.
w/o incident refers to the belief I have that other teams will try their best to knock Odell off his game and lose his cool. I hope they can't do it.
Wayyy more after the incident. Showed he's a fighter, not a pretty boy that was going to be intimidated by slurs, pregame bats and bullying. And I bet players around the league respected him way more after it too.
He cant lose his mind like that again, but one time was good to put future defenses on notice that hes not a punk.
this is beyond stupid. YOu put defenses on notice by BEATING them with your play. Catching the easy TD, not by acting like an idiot
Defenses will try everything to stop a player, on the field schemes as well as psych games. If its known that a player is soft and you can get in his head and bully them, they will exploit that more and more. Especially with OBJ who has the gay rumors surrounding him and the movie star looks, etc.
He needed to defend himself...and guess what... Coughlin agreed and that's why he left him in the game. You have to look at the big picture, not just about penalty yards that hurt the team for that one game, but long term benefit to the development of a player and league perception of them moving forward. Anyway, thats my opinion. Your welcome to cry about the two penalties he got, i personally like him alot more after it.
I still absolutely love him as a player because when I watch him, I feel like I'm seeing greatness.
But I used to defend him as "not DeSean or Dez" for a while. I felt like what differentiated Odell was his intelligence. Off-the field, he's simply a smarter individual than "fake-Crip" DeSean and "overgrown 12 year old" Dez.
But I've come to accept he's closer to those guys in terms of personality than I hoped for. He's absolutely got some Diva qualities on the field. He knows he's a big deal. But he combines some of that DeSean ultra-cockiness with that blind competitive rage like we see from Dez.
Still a guy who can be a generational star, and he seems to have the hunger and work ethic to reach that level. He just needs to calm down a bit on the field.
You're sort of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
And with your last sentence ("A few games w/o incident and all will be forgiven."), you make it sound like he regularly has incidents. What is there to forgive when for the most part, he doesn't have issues on the field beyond being passionate.
Thought about it some more and decided his off field stuff isn't bad at all for a young man.
w/o incident refers to the belief I have that other teams will try their best to knock Odell off his game and lose his cool. I hope they can't do it.
Gotcha...thanks for the clarification...:)
He's a young guy and lost his composure, but.... Â
choke Josh Norman during practice. The guy is an asshole.
As far as Odell goes, sports are a performance-based business. They're not like your kid's 3rd grade play with the goals of "Try(ing) your best and have fun." No one has performed better at the position in his first 2 seasons than Odell. Why would I like him less because he lost his cool in dealing with a CONFIRMED asshole? Why would his dating life have any bearing on how I view him as a player?
RE: He's a young guy and lost his composure, but.... Â
that's forgivable. Now he needs to let it go. His continuing to drag it out disappoints me a bit.
Once again...when was the last time he dragged it back out other than this article? He's been pretty good about not taking the bait whenever Norman would talk shit. Seriously, where are you people seeing his continuing to talk about it?
of dumb bells like Shockey. I don't think it had a lasting effect of my opinion of him, just that I thought he was acting like a bonehead.
The person that I lost respect for was Coughlin. I was an admirer of Coughlin. For a coach that was known as a disciplinarian to let that get so out of hand was ridiculous. He should have parked Beckham on the bench until he cooled down.
The concept of Coughlin as a disciplinarian went out the window in 2007 when he basically let Plax do whatever he wanted. When Steve Smith said that he never saw Plax at practice I was floored.
I mean, other than the Norman thing which is significant Â
Check the thread it's "do you like him a little less" and I just made a point where you turn it into an attack. Oh and by the way he did drop a TD pass in that game maybe because he was unfocused due to being more concerned with showing up norman. Anyway it's an opinion thread not right or wrong if you like him more for that so be it.
First off, I was giving you shit for saying he's too self-promoting. He's a celebrity and trying to establish a brand, so why not be self-promoting. And second, how do you know he dropped the TD pass because he was more focused on showing up Norman? Opinions are one thing, making baseless assertion is another. And if you watched the game, there were far more issues with that game than OBJ alone.
There you go again read what I said "maybe" you turn it into an attack. And yeah I watched the game as much as I could stomach. This is not a "right or wrong " issue which you keep twisting it into. I like odell but like the thread said "a little less" If you don't fine! End of story.
and absolutely cannot happen again, what has he done?
He's guilty of being 22 years old and likking dancing and dressing in expensive clothes.
Pre-Season, he made a very dirty play because he got over-emotional. He's also acted crazy on the sidelines a few times because of how pumped up he is.
I don't want to neuter him, but he needs to chill a little bit.
reach peak performance in part by generating a high dosage of adrenaline and related self-generated stimulants.
The fact that a 22-year-old kid doesn't know fully how to control that doesn't concern me in the slightest. If he had the same issues at, say 28, I would be disappointed. But not now
Here's the thing though. A lot of you guys say you love him but just want him to relax on the field or tone it down a bit.. but that's part of what makes him who he is. He's just wired that way. I know you can be an ultimate competitor without acting that way but Odell is Odell. You just have to realize that it's all part of what makes him tick and what drives him to want to be the greatest.
I always draw the line when a players transgressions are actual off-field crimes/problems. I lose all respect for guys who hit women, put children in danger, etc.
Beckham is a good kid. He's just super, super intense. But that's just who he is and who he always will be. Yes, he will mature a bit as he grows in certain ways.. but I don't expect him to ever be any less fierce on the field.
Look at Steve Smith Sr. Even in his old age, the man still plays like he has a huge chip on his shoulder. It's just who he is.
he invites headhunting, and he shies from it when the defender goes aggressive. In this particular game he decided to retaliate. It hasn't hurt us because the Giants have pretty much sucked donkey balls since he was drafted (not because he was drafted). If we ever do become competitive again, he'll likely hurt the team with this kind of behavior, and then it'll be a matter of whether his plusses outweigh the minusses.
I like having him on the team. he's a net plus. but it's pretty obvious he's got a showboat mentality which many, including myself, find obnoxious. It is not juvenile to say that.
The concept of Coughlin as a disciplinarian went out the window in 2007 when he basically let Plax do whatever he wanted. When Steve Smith said that he never saw Plax at practice I was floored.
That's shocking. Giving star players what they want? However I do remember TC benching Nicks for skipping practice. It was against the Cows in a week we really needed Nick's ass on the field.
Here's the thing though. A lot of you guys say you love him but just want him to relax on the field or tone it down a bit.. but that's part of what makes him who he is. He's just wired that way. I know you can be an ultimate competitor without acting that way but Odell is Odell. You just have to realize that it's all part of what makes him tick and what drives him to want to be the greatest.
I always draw the line when a players transgressions are actual off-field crimes/problems. I lose all respect for guys who hit women, put children in danger, etc.
Beckham is a good kid. He's just super, super intense. But that's just who he is and who he always will be. Yes, he will mature a bit as he grows in certain ways.. but I don't expect him to ever be any less fierce on the field.
Look at Steve Smith Sr. Even in his old age, the man still plays like he has a huge chip on his shoulder. It's just who he is.
Just opened the thread up to say the exact same thing. You can't have it both ways in some scenarios. Not everyone is Eli/Jeter. Not everyone is going to quietly be a star player. Maybe Odell does find that ability one day, but at what cost?
The Panther game was an outlier, IMO. There's simply no way, in my mind, he didn't learn from that experience. He's still going to showboat, he's still going to taunt on occasion, and I can definitely live with it if its within the realm of the rules. As long as he's not soured his place on this team, I have no issues with it.
The concept of Coughlin as a disciplinarian went out the window in 2007 when he basically let Plax do whatever he wanted. When Steve Smith said that he never saw Plax at practice I was floored.
That's shocking. Giving star players what they want? However I do remember TC benching Nicks for skipping practice. It was against the Cows in a week we really needed Nick's ass on the field.
It's one thing to give a star player some leeway, but it's something else to completely let him do what he wasn't at the expense of the team. It's easy to forget because of the gun incident, but things between Plax and the team had already completely broken down well before that point. Coughlin and Reese have a good share of the blame for that.
allowed to think of him as a douchebag, regardless of whether he abuses women and children? why is criminal behavior a prerequisite?
Gee, I don't know.. maybe because there's a major fucking difference between being a criminal and being demonstrative on a football field?
Football is entertainment at the end of the day. It's a sport. Some of you guys need to get over yourselves. Calling a 23 year old kid a "douchebag" because he plays the game with a passion or because there was an isolated incident where he lost his cool after being threatened is really ridiculous.
allowed to think of him as a douchebag, regardless of whether he abuses women and children? why is criminal behavior a prerequisite?
Its well within your right. But if that's what you think after watching him play, watching him with kids, and watching him be completely clean off the field, then I guess I can just as easily think you are a douche too.
is a fine line. I thought Brian Dawkins headhunting and intentionally trying to injure players made him a douche, but off the field, he was the NFL's Man of the Year at least once.
allowed to think of him as a douchebag, regardless of whether he abuses women and children? why is criminal behavior a prerequisite?
He could be a douchebag but he's our douchbag!
This is the crux of the whole thing. Like I said above if he were on the Eagle we'd be calling him a clown and an asshole. Instead we're calling him intense and a competitor. It's all about perspective.
He's a great player and hopefully he keeps his head screwed on straight.
Dawkins also built up a rep over the years of being a dirty player so it was kind of warranted even if he was a good guy off the field. Odell's incident as of now is isolated and not typical of his behavior. If he does something similar again, that will change pretty quickly, but.. hopefully we never need to have that discussion.
Beckham's incident against Carolina wasn't isolated Â
allowed to think of him as a douchebag, regardless of whether he abuses women and children? why is criminal behavior a prerequisite?
Eh...of course you can think of him as a douchebag based on your lifestyle norms and values. His playing style on the field and life style off the field aren't for everyone. It's all a matter of each person's preference.
However, beyond the Panthers game and a few occasions when he's gotten the other team riled up to target him (game against the Rams for example), OBJ has done far far more to help the team than to hurt the team. Matter of fact, he has hurt the team less with all of his antics (which is what most people bitch about) than many of our players have with their actual play on the field.
People make mountains of mole hills when it comes to the way OBJ plays (aside from the outlier event of the Panthers game). So since he hasn't really hurt the team with his on the field acts nor his off the field acts, people do get a bit annoyed when he gets portrayed as this problem child, which he isn't.
I'm pretty sure there aren't any other games where Beckham was launching himself helmet first into another player and swinging at him after every other play. It absolutely was out of character.
Why Norman targeted Beckham over Randle is pretty obvious. Rueben Randle wasn't beating anyone singlehandedly or winning football games. Beckham can. Norman targeted him because he wanted to throw him off his game and because he knew he couldn't cover him.
If being demonstrative is "showing up opponents" than Odell is about one of 50 other WR's in the NFL doing the same thing.
He's a target because no one can cover him one on one and it drives these defenders crazy.
He's been showing people up since his first game here. Norman wasn't the first guy to target him.
Norman is also a clown, but Beckham brings it on himself. There's a reason Norman wasn't going after Randle.
People target Beckham because he shows up opponents. Thus far no one has really made him pay for it, but if he keeps it up it's only a matter of time.
Some of the greatest players showboat and rub it in their opponents' faces. Not sure why this is such a problem with OBJ. I'm sure Cruz doing his salsa isn't really liked by many players either. It's not like he's gone out of his way to "Suh" an opponent with no provocation.
Everything we've heard about this kid is that he's a good kid with an enormous personality. He's a true team player, who lets his emotion drive him to greatness.
Not sure why this is a big deal and why so many people are afraid that he's going to cost this team anything in the future on the field. He'll give far far more to this team than ever take away from it.
I never said he was the only guy showing up opponents Â
There have been too many to count. Personally I don't think it's anything to be proud of but in what seems to be a league (and media/fan landscape) that seems to think it is something to celebrate I'd agree it's a non-issue from a team management standpoint.
I did not like his loss of self composure and how it reflected on him, the team, the coach and the Giants as an organization. He should have been pulled from the game after the second flare up, long before the attempted head ramming. Norman got inside his head and Odell lost self control and retaliated for whatever provoked him.
I do not appreciate Odell's off field style at all - same with other flamboyant players. I guess it is a cultural and age gap thing. But I don't care for it at all and have less respect for the person with that behavior. Simple truth. Some won't like that open honesty, but, there it is.
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
GO GIANTS.
What exactly has Beckham done off the field that you don't "appreciate"?
I'm pretty sure there aren't any other games where Beckham was launching himself helmet first into another player and swinging at him after every other play. It absolutely was out of character.
Beckham was fined after the Bills game in October. Yes it wasn't to the extent of what happened vs Carolina, but it was similar circumstances. He felt the Bills were targeting him and he retaliated against them by throwing punches. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Panthers noted that in the game tape.
I bet some of you had serious character concerns Â
I did not like his loss of self composure and how it reflected on him, the team, the coach and the Giants as an organization. He should have been pulled from the game after the second flare up, long before the attempted head ramming. Norman got inside his head and Odell lost self control and retaliated for whatever provoked him.
I do not appreciate Odell's off field style at all - same with other flamboyant players. I guess it is a cultural and age gap thing. But I don't care for it at all and have less respect for the person with that behavior. Simple truth. Some won't like that open honesty, but, there it is.
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
GO GIANTS.
What exactly has Beckham done off the field that you don't "appreciate"?
"Flamboyant arrogance", whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean. I'm waiting for Limericks Guy to talk about "the elephant in the room".
Wow, he did something in the Buffalo game that happens in nearly every football game. Crazy! What a lunatic. Someone needs to get him off a football field immediately.
Wow, he did something in the Buffalo game that happens in nearly every football game. Crazy! What a lunatic. Someone needs to get him off a football field immediately.
Good lord...
The NFL fines players for throwing punches in nearly ever football game? Crazy!
Wow, he did something in the Buffalo game that happens in nearly every football game. Crazy! What a lunatic. Someone needs to get him off a football field immediately.
Good lord...
The NFL fines players for throwing punches in nearly ever football game? Crazy!
Players are fined all the time. It's not even always reported or made light of. If you haven't noticed that this stuff goes on in most NFL games, you might want to get a nice pair of glasses.
This is hardly comparable to the game against Carolina. Launching yourself head first into someone's earhole is infinitely more dangerous than slapping a player wearing a helmet with your bare hand.
Beckham is a good kid. He's just super, super intense. But that's just who he is and who he always will be. Yes, he will mature a bit as he grows in certain ways.. but I don't expect him to ever be any less fierce on the field.
To me he's the Giants' equivalent to Draymond Green, only far more talented at his respective position. His on-field antics reflect poorly on him especially if you're not a Giants fan, but we all know he's not exactly Bill Romanowski.
You guys are defining fandom. That's kind of the point. The entire basis of being a fan is that you're biased towards the players who play for your team and against the players who play for rivals.
Did anyone think Andre Johnson was a "douchebag" after this incident? Or did you know what kind of dude Finnegan was and know that AJ finally had enough and lost his cool? I don't recall many people holding this against Johnson.
Norman was goading Beckham the same way. Sometimes players lose their composure.
I don't think being a fan of a team is the same thing as applying different standards to the team you're rooting for. At least I don't think that's being a smart or even honest fan.
As an example, remember when we signed Lavar Arrington? While he was with the Redskins he was (correctly) criticized as being an undisciplined player that was generally overrated due to his draft status. But then we signed him and all of a sudden the perspective of most of the people changed; apparently he became a good player once he was a Giant.
Well that's bullshit. It's one thing to root for a team and its players to do well, and quite another to be hold double standards.
There's nothing wrong with rooting for Beckham while acknowledging the possibility that he might be an asshole. Who cares as long as he keeps playing well?
But I am absolutely certain that there isn't a person here that would call him a "good kid" if he played for any other team.
He is 22 years old. He works hard, he is smart, stays out of trouble and really seems to enjoy every bit of his life. Kid is always smiling and having clean fun. No strip clubs, passing out pool side in Vegas or drama.
I feel he is pretty grounded and that is a tribute to the way he was raised.
The fight was a double edge sword for me. He took it to Norman and yes it cost the team and his rep a lot but it also showed how intense he is and isn't going to back down.
Terps.. you're expecting complete objectivity in a situation where it purposely doesn't exist. Of course people changed their tune on Arrington when he came to NY. Fans are generally hopeful. When a player comes here from another team, people always want to believe that the player will be better here or will change for the better. It all comes with the territory.
I hate DeSean Jackson because I have memories of him torching the Giants in crucial spots and because he's now played for 2 of our 3 biggest rivals. Not because he gets up after a tackle sometimes and pushes the guy who tackled him or takes a quick swing at him and not because he celebrates when he scores. I would feel the same way about Beckham if the tables were turned. I would hate him because the Giants couldn't stop him and because he played for a rival. Not because he was demonstrative on the field after a big play or because he scuffled with someone after a play. That shit is all over the league. You literally see it in every game. Guys celebrate, guys scuffle. It's football.
I don't know much about Jackson off the field and don't really care to but I do know that Beckham is a very family oriented guy who is very close with his parents, does good things for kids in his free time and is harmless. I don't think having the type of day he had against the Panthers makes him a "bad kid".. I think by all accounts, he's a 23 year old who is growing up and enjoying his life. He doesn't do anything wrong off the field or anything that is atypical of a kid his age. The disdain from some of these posters is just so ridiculous to me. Give me a break with the holier than thou bullshit. As if no one here ever lost their temper in their early 20's or did something they regret. Stop.
But Odell has had a couple of extra-physical late weird type of plays. He plays after the whistle, sometimes it seems like he doesn't even hear the whistle because he's always running down the field even after being brought down.
Defenses haven't figured out how to stop him. "Toughness and Physicality" are the closest things to question marks as there is in Odell's game. It hasn't always been like the Rams game, but defenses play extra dirty against Odell in general. It's obvious imo. Odell and the Giants as a team probably know this because they see it on tape.
Odell seems to have a "if ur gonna do it to me, I'm gonna repay the favor" type of mindset. This was the case before the Norman thing imo. This was the main thing Cromartie called Odell out on. It was a known thing that Odell gets pissed off if ur extra physical with him, Norman just took it to another level because he saw after 1 series he couldn't keep up with Odell in a fair matchup.
Odell's standing up for himself and I get that. But the Norman thing is absolutely not the only dirty thing he's done in his career so far, even if u want to excuse it as him repaying guys for being dirty on him.
We really really really need to stop comparing this to Andres beat down of Finnegan. Andre embarrassed Finnegan, Odell embarrassed himself for what he did to Norman. Odell let a clearly inferior player in Norman get in his head. He's too good to let anyone get in his head
It is possible to objectively say "You know, this guy Beckham is kind of a dick" and still root for him to continue to play well. These guys aren't our friends.
The bigger question may be why fans need to maintain the illusion that they root for nice people on their sports teams. Look around your work place: you gonna tell me that out of 53 people in your office or whatever there aren't a few gaping assholes?
And I guess here is where my subjectivity comes in. I think someone that touchdown dances like the ones Beckham does are lame, and are generally performed by people like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, and Desean Jackson. I consider those people to be assholes, and I'm probably joined by 95% of Giants fans in that feeling.
But that same 95% doesn't apply the same standard to one of our players. I have a tough time with that.
RE: I bet some of you had serious character concerns Â
And what Beckham does off the field is of no concern to me. I don't follow him on social media and I don't know why anyone would want to. His personal life is none of my business. I'm talking strictly on the field.
It is possible to objectively say "You know, this guy Beckham is kind of a dick" and still root for him to continue to play well. These guys aren't our friends.
The bigger question may be why fans need to maintain the illusion that they root for nice people on their sports teams. Look around your work place: you gonna tell me that out of 53 people in your office or whatever there aren't a few gaping assholes?
And I guess here is where my subjectivity comes in. I think someone that touchdown dances like the ones Beckham does are lame, and are generally performed by people like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, and Desean Jackson. I consider those people to be assholes, and I'm probably joined by 95% of Giants fans in that feeling.
But that same 95% doesn't apply the same standard to one of our players. I have a tough time with that.
It's the freaking NFL.. it's a super violent sport. Why do I need the players I root for to be "nice" on the football field? Not everyone is Eli Manning and not everyone should be.
But that's not the point. The point is that by all accounts, he's a good dude off the field and that's why I say he's a good kid. If he's not getting in trouble off the field or causing any issues, why would I call him a bad guy or say he's a douchebag? I'd say the same about a player on a rival team. If Jordan Matthews was super demonstrative and fiery on the field but wasn't doing anything wrong off of it I would only dislike him from the standpoint of him being an Eagle.
He plays with a flair and gets emotionally supercharged sometimes. So what. It's part of what makes him great.
I also loved Owens when he was in SF.. the only thing I ever hated about him was that he was an Eagle and a Cowboy. So I guess that's where we differ. I thought he was one of the most dominant WR's I've ever seen and found him entertaining. I just hated when his ability came at our expense. He's a HoF player and one of the best ever. Does it really matter that he celebrated or danced and enjoyed the game he played?
In comment 13047193 Go Terps said:
[quote}There's nothing wrong with rooting for Beckham while acknowledging the possibility that he might be an asshole. Who cares as long as he keeps playing well?
But I am absolutely certain that there isn't a person here that would call him a "good kid" if he played for any other team. [/quote]
And how do you know he's an asshole and not a good kid? Have you got insider information on this that go counter to what many others have stated about him as a person?
And yes, you are right we judge people on the other teams terribly compare to people on our own team. Biggest example is Tony Romo. Do you know how many people on BBI think that Tony Romo is an asshole because he plays for the Cowboys and wears his hat backward with a shit eating grin? Plenty. However, from everything that I've ever read, Tony Romo is one of the nicest and most sincere people in the league.
It is possible to objectively say "You know, this guy Beckham is kind of a dick" and still root for him to continue to play well. These guys aren't our friends.
The bigger question may be why fans need to maintain the illusion that they root for nice people on their sports teams. Look around your work place: you gonna tell me that out of 53 people in your office or whatever there aren't a few gaping assholes?
And I guess here is where my subjectivity comes in. I think someone that touchdown dances like the ones Beckham does are lame, and are generally performed by people like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, and Desean Jackson. I consider those people to be assholes, and I'm probably joined by 95% of Giants fans in that feeling.
But that same 95% doesn't apply the same standard to one of our players. I have a tough time with that.
People hate those guys because they played for rivals
I doubt you would get anywhere close to a majority of people hating Ocho Cinco
I don't really care about the type of people they are off the field as long as they're not criminals (and I'm glad the Giants generally have a high bar when it comes to that stuff).
I enjoy watching Odell. I don't know if he's a good person or not. But I'd still root for him if he threw sticks at people in Central Park like in Big Daddy.
Did anyone think Andre Johnson was a "douchebag" after this incident? Or did you know what kind of dude Finnegan was and know that AJ finally had enough and lost his cool? I don't recall many people holding this against Johnson.
Norman was goading Beckham the same way. Sometimes players lose their composure.
Well I never said Beckham was a "douchebag", but the OPs question was whether I thought less of him. But yes, I thought less of Andre Johnson after that incident.
I don't really care about the type of people they are off the field as long as they're not criminals (and I'm glad the Giants generally have a high bar when it comes to that stuff).
I enjoy watching Odell. I don't know if he's a good person or not. But I'd still root for him if he threw sticks at people in Central Park like in Big Daddy.
People who know him personally have attested to Beckham being a great kid. And don't doubt my words.
The only proof I have that Beckham is an asshole is that he shows up his opponents and plays with no class. That's really just personal preference. I would consider such a person an asshole. Others may not.
I don't think Romo is an asshole because he plays for a rival. That's ridiculous. It just makes him someone I want to see lose.
The only proof I have that Beckham is an asshole is that he shows up his opponents and plays with no class. That's really just personal preference. I would consider such a person an asshole. Others may not.
I don't think Romo is an asshole because he plays for a rival. That's ridiculous. It just makes him someone I want to see lose.
Maybe not you...but you have to admit that Tony Romo is pretty much despised as a person (beyond a football player) on BBI with such flimsy reasons but that's fandom.
I think Odell is savvy enough that he is creating brand Â
His losing control and possibly costing the Giants a possible playoff chance was inexcusable and hopefully he learned from it and nothing similar will ever happen again.
He needs to keep "Brand Odell" and as far away from the field as possible.
I'm not the one who needs him to be nice. You're the one admitting you hold him to a double standard.
So he's an asshole. So what? I don't feel the need to make a case otherwise and I'm certainly not calling for the Giants to get rid of him because of it.
I don't give a shit what people that I don't know say about how he is off the field. Keep catching touchdowns and don't get suspended.
I'm fine rooting for an asshole. The guy is an incredible football player. Just don't tell me what a nice guy he is when the image he puts out to the world on Sunday is that of a huge asshole. I don't need the reassurance that he is something other than what he is showing me.
I don't really care about the type of people they are off the field as long as they're not criminals (and I'm glad the Giants generally have a high bar when it comes to that stuff).
I enjoy watching Odell. I don't know if he's a good person or not. But I'd still root for him if he threw sticks at people in Central Park like in Big Daddy.
People who know him personally have attested to Beckham being a great kid. And don't doubt my words.
I find that believable. He can be obnoxious on the field but be great off it.
The only proof I have that Beckham is an asshole is that he shows up his opponents and plays with no class. That's really just personal preference. I would consider such a person an asshole. Others may not.
I don't think Romo is an asshole because he plays for a rival. That's ridiculous. It just makes him someone I want to see lose.
Maybe not you...but you have to admit that Tony Romo is pretty much despised as a person (beyond a football player) on BBI with such flimsy reasons but that's fandom.
Yeah, and those people are idiots.
Was I supposed to hate Darrell Green because he played for Washington?
I don't think that's fandom. I think it's stupidity.
Beckham showed immaturity. And it has continued with GQ. This will HURT him to one degree or another, maybe even with marketing himself.
I take into account the fact that he is young, he has a spotlight on him and he is also a fierce competitor. But calling your team out when they are down 35-7 vs Carolina and saying they lost interest by talking about "what are we doing after the game?" was a bad idea and raised eyebrows I'm sure.
If I am Odell, I keep my mouth shut and just play this year. Period end of story.
Who is remembered more fondly, Jerry Rice or Randy Moss?
Yes I believe in the responsibility of a Pro Athlete, a role model, etc to be better than that. We expect it from our military, our policemen/policewomen, etc and they don't have the fame or the money that pro athletes do.
It may just be his kryptonite. Norman can't compete with him physically so he got in his head. It's sad that is part of the game but it is. It could very well be the one thing that stops him from being the best ever. Can OBJ mature out of it?
All that being said there is no reason he can't fix this. It can very easily be looked back on as immaturity. OBJ vs Norman twice a year will be interesting to watch and will hopefully do great things for both of their career. If OBJ can fix that part of his game, which I believe is his biggest hurdle, he could be the best ever and Norman would end up an afterthought.
I respected Rice, but felt like Moss was a more physically gifted player.
Rather face Rice than Moss in their primes.
Point?
Sorry I'm late responding. I totally agree with your opinion on Rice and Moss. That is exactly my point and I guess I didn't make it clear. Who is most commonly regarded as the best WR ever? Hell some would claim Rice to be one of the best players ever. Yet Moss, in my opinion and yours, had more talent. So what's the difference between the two?
If you had to guess right now, outside of an injury, what would be the one thing that could hold Beckham back from being the best ever? It's not talent as his first 2 years have been incredible. I suppose he could retire too early but I doubt that. OBJ needs to decide if he wants to be the greatest ever and supplant Jerry Rice or be the next Terrel Owens, Ocho Cinco, or at best Randy Moss.
I would take one Jerry Rice over two of Randy Moss Â
Moss had near super human qualities, but he couldn't be counted on to always deliver a good effort. I've brought this up before; I saw Moss play for the 49ers in person at Super Bowl 47. Obviously he was well past his prime, but I was hoping that in his first Super Bowl (and in what turned out to be the last game of his career) he would dig deep. Instead he gave an absolutely pathetic effort. Didn't block, didn't come back to the QB on broken plays, didn't go for the ball over the middle that resulted in the Ed Reed pick. Just a complete dog.
Contrast that with Anquan Boldin in that same game. Boldin was three years younger than Moss but with much more wear and tear, and a fraction of the talent. Boldin played that game like his life depended on it. A man possessed.
Or contrast it with Jerry Rice himself. At age 40 he had 92 catches for the Raiders, and in the Super Bowl played a huge game against a brutal Tampa defense.
Talent is only part of it. Gotta have heart and brains.
Carolina game and IMHO the ref's for some reason were allowing Norman to get away with murder wrt Odell. There were many things that they didn't and couldn't show on TV that the Ref's in one instance I know were looking right at. Norman and the rest of the Carolina Secondary would always seem to do it when they had Beckham isolated buy their bench. I wasn't pleased at all that Odell fell for that BS but I completely understood why.
Recently I noticed that they have first been playing up Beckham then Norman which I assume is their trying to set up some kind of rivalry; IMHO they better review the tapes that I'm sure they have lying around in some closet and see if Norman is really the type of guy that the league wants to hang its hat on.
I'm not the one who needs him to be nice. You're the one admitting you hold him to a double standard.
So he's an asshole. So what? I don't feel the need to make a case otherwise and I'm certainly not calling for the Giants to get rid of him because of it.
I don't give a shit what people that I don't know say about how he is off the field. Keep catching touchdowns and don't get suspended.
I'm fine rooting for an asshole. The guy is an incredible football player. Just don't tell me what a nice guy he is when the image he puts out to the world on Sunday is that of a huge asshole. I don't need the reassurance that he is something other than what he is showing me.
The disagreement here is that you're calling a guy an asshole because of the way he plays football. I've seen and read enough about what he does off the field to hold what I feel is an informed enough opinion that he is not at all an "asshole". Just because he plays with a flair and is a mega intense dude or celebrates after a big play doesn't make him an asshole in my book. Is he Barry Sanders? No, and he doesn't need to be. He's Odell Beckham. I think he acted like a shitty dude on 12/20/15. I also think that was an outlier.
You've already admitted that you know nothing about what he does off the field and don't care to and that's fine. I don't exactly follow his off field life daily but I do know enough to say that he's not a bad kid by any means.
You know who's an asshole? Greg Hardy is an asshole. Ray Rice is an asshole. Guys like that are who I have a problem with. Not guys who go all out on the field and don't do anything wrong off of it.
Like I said. If Beckham was on another team, I'd say the same things I say about someone like DeSean Jackson. I hate the guy, think he's annoying to play against and want to see him get leveled every time he has the football. I'd still respect the talent (even though Beckham is quite a bit better than Jackson). It's just being a fan. So, no.. all of this "if Beckham were an Eagle..." and complaining about a double standard is really just a waste of time.
That's reserved for woman beaters, drug abusers, and drunk drivers.
Let's try to stay in the realm of the reasonable. He likes to dance after touchdowns. That goes back to Billy White Shoes Johnson like half a century ago.
What is it that he does that you think is showing people up? The celebrating? There's just so much of that in this league now that I can't even get bugged about it. The only time celebrating really, really bothers me is when a guy like DaMontre Moore would celebrate a sack in a game we were losing by 3 scores. Or when Santonio Holmes used to catch a 4 yard pass for a 1st down and do the point and drop the ball thing. Shit like that is silly but after a big play or a TD none of it really annoys me.
I also don't think Odell is as hated as you might think. I'm sure guys in this league want to lay him out but there are also times during most games where a defender will take him down and he'll get up and give them a quick pat on the helmet and say "hey, nice play". I think there's still a degree of respect. I'd rather more of that and less of the celebrating but it's just who he is.. I don't think any less of him for it.
Is Dikembe Mutombo an asshole for doing the finger wag? Â
and that the stuff that's said between them is probably a lot worse than someone wagging a finger, dancing, or high-stepping, right? Your posts reeks of sanctimonious paternalism.
these athletes have thick enough skin not to get hot and bothered about someone celebrating. Don't like Mutombo finger wagging after a block? Dunk on his ass. Don't like Odell dancing? Keep him out of the endzone.
Well there are always going to be plenty of ways to justify acting like an ass. There seem to have been hundreds and thousands of athletes that somehow managed to be motivated without acting like morons.
But there's no doubt a lot of people seem to think it's pretty cool. You've got me there.
Difference opinions is good. Some people will call people assholes for their actions on the field irrespective of their life off of it. Some think that's a bit far. Ah well...not even worth arguing about.
Through your lens, having a bit of fun on the field Â
I will say that no matter how nice you are in real life, how you treat people on BBI truly makes you an asshole in life. And for that reason, I think we can all agree that Brett is an asshole.
RE: Through your lens, having a bit of fun on the field Â
equates to acting like an ass. Any form of expression is acting like an ass.
You don't seem to be able to distinguish between celebrating an accomplishment and disrespecting an opponent.
And if Beckham wants to keep showing people up, fine. I'm not calling for him to be benched or traded. He doesn't owe me anything. If he wants to, in my opinion, look like a god damn fool every time he scores a TD that's his prerogative. And it's my prerogative to think he's an asshole.
I don't care. I just take it with a huge mountain of salt when anyone tells me he's a good mood when they're saying it basically just because of the jersey he wears.
No...I actually have family who has personal knowledge of the kind of guy he is...and they have nothing but good thing to say about him. It has nothing to do with the color of his jersey at this point in the discussion.
And the family is a cousin (well, my brother's in-laws), who works for the Giants.
I don't make character assertions about a guy based off of what Â
You don't? You'd be in a vast minority then, because everyone on this board has been calling guys like Terrell Owens and Desean Jackson (whose behavior I find identical to Beckham's) assholes and worse for years.
No...I actually have family who has personal knowledge of the kind of guy he is...and they have nothing but good thing to say about him. It has nothing to do with the color of his jersey at this point in the discussion.
And the family is a cousin (well, my brother's in-laws), who works for the Giants.
That's great. And he's still a guy that acts like a jerk on the field.
There is nothing Odell has done that is even in the same universe Â
as TO's antics. If you think the sharpie and kneeling down on the star are in the same ballpark, I guess even spiking the football is crossing the line for you. Even with that level of theatrics, I don't find TO to be an ass for those reasons. I don't recall Odell playing a major role in destroying locker rooms.
Desean I could see. Except Odell doesn't pretend to be a crip, and doesn't owe his agent large sums of money.
When he came into the league, that was the main hole in his scouting report. Kinda small/average and the poor bench press was noteworthy.
In the NFL, it's literally the only question left.
The whole Norman saga showed he still has a ? Next to toughness. And this isn't just about that. It's about him acting out at times against overly physical/dirty opponents in the past. The Buffalo game wasn't just that cheap shot, he was acting funny that entire game. Same with the Panthers game, it wasn't just that dirty missile job it was the entire game. Hes targeted DBs in other games too, the Jax preseason game when he nailed Sergio Brown with a dirty shot. And Malcol Butlers physical play really bothered Odell in that Pats game.
Odell had a 1450/13 season in 15 games. But he dropped like 3 TDs including a couple of very important ones. He can be soo good. He just needs to chill out a bit imo, he can still be highly competitive amd retain that fire.
and this thread finally brought me in. I can't believe there are actually fans nitpicking possibly the best player we've ever had at that position smh. It's mind boggling that if a player shows extreme passion for the game, the disdain for losing, high work ethic and ridiculous competitive nature it can be somehow overshadowed by his off field personality lol. Never been in any kind of off field trouble and he's simply living the life of a rich 23 year old. The Carolina game, of course it was overboard, but he'll mature. It's easy to forget that he's basically still a kid and I'm sure that most 23 year olds put in the same spotlight as Odell would be way worse. Let the man grow into himself..But quick background of myself...Die hard since the Dave Brown era that we'd like to forget lol (I was young and that's when I started understanding the game) Been through the debacles with you all (Minnesota 97, Baltimore SB, San Fran 02 (worst one to me, I got physically sick after that one, seriously)...and been through 2 out of the 4 Super Bowls we have of course. Born in 86, so that one and 90 of course I won't remember.
RE: RE: I don't make character assertions about a guy based off of what Â
You don't? You'd be in a vast minority then, because everyone on this board has been calling guys like Terrell Owens and Desean Jackson (whose behavior I find identical to Beckham's) assholes and worse for years.
Next time Beckham runs out to the star at midfield at Cowboys stadium or breaks out a sharpie......etc...etc.
Comparing him to T.O. Is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen on this board.
No because I'm not an 85 year old with a stick up my ass Â
The guy is the best player that I've ever seen in blue (didn't see LT). I'm not a sanctimonious person that will throw that away because a 23 year old lost his cool when he was targeted for a whole game. No one here has lost their cool before? All of the people that "can't root for him" get over yourselves, you're not morally superior.
Look, it's okay to not be okay with the expressiveness. That's Â
a generational thing. Everyone's allowed their own take on it, within reason.
He's incredibly talented and also has room to grow up.
I'm pretty conservative when it comes to expressiveness. However, to "like him less" or not be able to root for him when he's had two of the best seasons a young WR has ever had is complete self righteousness. There's no two ways about it. If this were Freddie Mitchell or someone I'd understand it.
that he was willing to defend himself after a few bunches of trash threatened his career before the game started with bats. Fuck that noise. You can't let people like that get away with that shit.
a generational thing. Everyone's allowed their own take on it, within reason.
He's incredibly talented and also has room to grow up.
I'm pretty conservative when it comes to expressiveness. However, to "like him less" or not be able to root for him when he's had two of the best seasons a young WR has ever had is complete self righteousness. There's no two ways about it. If this were Freddie Mitchell or someone I'd understand it.
So you're a great guy if you act like a jerk but score lots of touchdowns. Got it.
I guess fandom and stupidity really do go hand in hand.
a generational thing. Everyone's allowed their own take on it, within reason.
He's incredibly talented and also has room to grow up.
I'm pretty conservative when it comes to expressiveness. However, to "like him less" or not be able to root for him when he's had two of the best seasons a young WR has ever had is complete self righteousness. There's no two ways about it. If this were Freddie Mitchell or someone I'd understand it.
So you're a great guy if you act like a jerk but score lots of touchdowns. Got it.
I guess fandom and stupidity really do go hand in hand.
No one said he's a great guy, Jesus. This is a strawman argument. Just that it's incredibly self righteous to not be able to root for him like many say given that he's has the possibility of being our best player since LT. If you want choir boys go to church. The fuck do you care if he's a jerk?
I've said multiple times that I don't care at all that he's a jerk. The people getting upset are the ones that can't seem to accept the possibility that a great Giants player can also be a jerk. Instead of calling him out on his ridiculous on field behavior we hear rationalizations about his intensity, everybody else does it, etc. It's irrational and it's hypocrisy, but that's already been pointed out here.
I've said multiple times that I don't care at all that he's a jerk. The people getting upset are the ones that can't seem to accept the possibility that a great Giants player can also be a jerk. Instead of calling him out on his ridiculous on field behavior we hear rationalizations about his intensity, everybody else does it, etc. It's irrational and it's hypocrisy, but that's already been pointed out here.
I see a lot less "rationalizations and hypocrisy" among most fans here than I see, as Ronnie put it so well, a hesitancy to leap from a dislike of his show boating obnoxious on the field behavior to labeling him a jerk, an idiot, a dumbass, or a bad person.
From your side you see rationalizations and hypocrisy, from the other side people see your judgemental disapprobation, narrow mindedness, and sanctimonious attitude.
I choose to rationalize and be hypocritical in your eyes than assume your views, which are no less a leap of faith. A documented leap of faith it appears by dint of reports of OBJs off field behavior.
Do you dislike Cruz as well for his salsa dance TD celebration? If not, what is the distinction?
If you haven't heard it I suggest you listen to Cruz's interview from yesterday I think on Giants.com. He talks about the reversal of roles he and Odell have had from first Cruz encouraging and mentoring Odell through his first training camp and first quarter of his rookie season struggle to get past his hamstring injury, to the way Odell has encouraged and mentored Cruz through his struggle to come back from the patella tendon and calf surgeries.
By any account, Cruz portrays Odell as an excellent, caring, intelligent and passionate team mate.
Maybe that will alter your opinion of Beckham - at least slightly.
He needs to grow up a little but he's hardly worn any act thin....
That wasn't an act in the sense you mean. It was an act of self-defense.
From a rehab clinic.
I don t know The kid other than as a player for the team I root for. In that Arena the total picture has been much more good than bad.
Your post has a lot in common with today s talking heads. Create an invalid story line then spen time trying to discuss it as if it s balid
Self-defense c'mon, I mean norman started it and the refs didn't help but he tried to take the guy's head off!
I do not appreciate Odell's off field style at all - same with other flamboyant players. I guess it is a cultural and age gap thing. But I don't care for it at all and have less respect for the person with that behavior. Simple truth. Some won't like that open honesty, but, there it is.
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
GO GIANTS.
He has time to change my mind, lets see how he handles himself facing this guy twice this year.
I'm just not sure about Odell at this point, can he conduct himself like an adult NFL player? Or is he going to be a bipolar diva...
this. I wish he'd just shut up and play.
He should study Jerry rice's off field demeanor and style if he wants to be like him.
And yes Odell behaved badly against Carolina. That was beyond self defense.
I do think sir Charles got this one right.......
BUT, I don't see a guy like Owens or Moss here. Not yet at least. He's not criminal. He's not hurting his team for the most part. He's famous and he's tabloid fodder.
Self-defense c'mon, I mean norman started it and the refs didn't help but he tried to take the guy's head off!
OMG! A celebrity professional athlete is too self-promoting? Oh no! How dare he try to continue to brand himself to reap the benefit of his popularity.
OBJ has put up numbers and production level unseen by any players in their first two years. He (along with Eli) has basically been the only thing worth much on this team. Yes, he's had a few moments that are forgettable on the field but none off the field, yet all these grown adults complain about his lifestyle like how teenage girls complain about their favorite popstars. Grow up, girls.
I was already hoping Coughlin was going to be replaced, but that game was a pathetic show of a head coach and I liked him a lot less after. it was already obvious about Odell prior to that game
He needs to clean up SOME onfield stuff that could cost us, but he's a talent I can easily root for
"I don't like the way he lives his life because I don't live like that..."
Just think about that line of thinking...bahahaha...talk about lame.
Other than the meltdown against Carolina, please tell me about the other games in which OBJ couldn't control himself? Please tell me about all of the other times he showed a lack of maturity and professional behavior? Please tell me about the other times he acted like a little bitch and put his kid antics on display?
Personally, I don't care what he does in the offseason as long as he doesn't break the law. He's a bona fide celebrity in an age where celebrity can come way too easily, but as long as he continues to produce on the field he can go full-on "Instant Face" for all I care.
This is his package!
Balls to the wall, putting it all out there.
As a fan make your choice you're not picking strawberries.
I don't like his hair, I don't like some of his comments.
I WOULD HATE HIM IF HE CHANGED BECAUSE OF MY OR YOUR COMMENTS!!!
OD..as the saying goes about these negative commentors..."F--k'em and feed 'em beans" Just do your thing and play. The coaches will aim you in the right direction....on the filed!
Where it counts.
No doubt Odell needs to mature, but that game was the perfect storm of having ridiculous taunts, the defender opposite you body slam you on the 2nd play of the game, and playing an undefeated team.
Yes I believe in the responsibility of a Pro Athlete, a role model, etc to be better than that. We expect it from our military, our policemen/policewomen, etc and they don't have the fame or the money that pro athletes do.
It may just be his kryptonite. Norman can't compete with him physically so he got in his head. It's sad that is part of the game but it is. It could very well be the one thing that stops him from being the best ever. Can OBJ mature out of it?
All that being said there is no reason he can't fix this. It can very easily be looked back on as immaturity. OBJ vs Norman twice a year will be interesting to watch and will hopefully do great things for both of their career. If OBJ can fix that part of his game, which I believe is his biggest hurdle, he could be the best ever and Norman would end up an afterthought.
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is a little too self-promoting and needs to mature.
Self-defense c'mon, I mean norman started it and the refs didn't help but he tried to take the guy's head off!
OMG! A celebrity professional athlete is too self-promoting? Oh no! How dare he try to continue to brand himself to reap the benefit of his popularity.
Nice overreaction, football is a team sport, the guys more concerned with themselves over the team, ala the Carolina game don't win!
Yes I believe in the responsibility of a Pro Athlete, a role model, etc to be better than that. We expect it from our military, our policemen/policewomen, etc and they don't have the fame or the money that pro athletes do.
It may just be his kryptonite. Norman can't compete with him physically so he got in his head. It's sad that is part of the game but it is. It could very well be the one thing that stops him from being the best ever. Can OBJ mature out of it?
All that being said there is no reason he can't fix this. It can very easily be looked back on as immaturity. OBJ vs Norman twice a year will be interesting to watch and will hopefully do great things for both of their career. If OBJ can fix that part of his game, which I believe is his biggest hurdle, he could be the best ever and Norman would end up an afterthought.
I respected Rice, but felt like Moss was a more physically gifted player.
Rather face Rice than Moss in their primes.
Point?
Setting aside the Carolina game, give me another on-field example of OBJ putting himself above the team?
The only thing I regret is that he was a small figure (due to the Carolina meltdown) in the train of thought that led to Coughlin's firing.
He learned his lesson and won't do it again. At lest the experience happened in a meaningless game. This year he will just bear down quietly and burn Norma's butt.
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In comment 13046360 gmenatlarge said:
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is a little too self-promoting and needs to mature.
Self-defense c'mon, I mean norman started it and the refs didn't help but he tried to take the guy's head off!
OMG! A celebrity professional athlete is too self-promoting? Oh no! How dare he try to continue to brand himself to reap the benefit of his popularity.
Nice overreaction, football is a team sport, the guys more concerned with themselves over the team, ala the Carolina game don't win!
Sure thing, bro. Because he was the cause of the Carolina loss and the other losses. Do you even watch our games?
He talked about that guy once in the interview and had been pretty quiet about it. Not sure where he kept talking about him.
I had no dislike of Coughlin, but I cannot imagine, even remotely, Belichick or Parcells (for example) not noticing that feud escalating and removing the player for a few plays.
Anyway, my affinity is toward more firey emotional players. It's part of the reason I liked LT so much and why I loved guys like Armstead, Shockey, Jacobs, Rolle, etc.
The list of players who put themselves above the team but still win is pretty long, including Josh Norman last year.
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In comment 13046360 gmenatlarge said:
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is a little too self-promoting and needs to mature.
Self-defense c'mon, I mean norman started it and the refs didn't help but he tried to take the guy's head off!
OMG! A celebrity professional athlete is too self-promoting? Oh no! How dare he try to continue to brand himself to reap the benefit of his popularity.
Nice overreaction, football is a team sport, the guys more concerned with themselves over the team, ala the Carolina game don't win!
Haha come on bro! The guy was practically in tears when he thought the team quit during that Carolina game. He may be flamboyant and a little immature, but for fucks sake, he obviously cares a TON about winning and losing. He's all heart and busts his tail for himself and the team. Stop questioning that.
What kind of Giant fan dislikes this guy? Are you guys crazy!!?
“I wanted to do one back home [in New Orleans] as well, but this is my first one so New York’s gonna be my home for a long time, so I felt like might as well start here and then go back home,’’ Beckham said. “Kinda see how this went and obviously it turned out great, so looking forward to doing many more.’’
Sounds to me like a guy who loves his team and city.
I had no dislike of Coughlin, but I cannot imagine, even remotely, Belichick or Parcells (for example) not noticing that feud escalating and removing the player for a few plays.
Anyway, my affinity is toward more firey emotional players. It's part of the reason I liked LT so much and why I loved guys like Armstead, Shockey, Jacobs, Rolle, etc.
I think Coughlin helped seal his fate that day. A guy who claims to be in complete control claims not to have known that his best player is losing it to the point that he can't make plays or focus on the game. Time to go Tom.
It was a big learning day for OBJ.
I doubt it happens again.
Yuuuuuuuge TC fan here and he didn't do his job that day, step in, take OBJ out and talk to him/bench him.
And oh how the years make people forget things. Jerry Rice was known to be selfish and pretty immature himself on the field, so I'm not sure where this idea that he was the consummate professional comes from. To use him as an example of what OBJ should be, come on now.
As far as people talking about his off the field life, who gives a flying fuck how he lives his life as long as he's a law abiding citizen, who is there for the team on game days?
A lot of players celebrate when they score but his theatrical dances while his teammates are standing there waiting to celebrate with him is just awkward. I'd like to see less of that.
All that being said Odell is 23. He's one of the best players in the league. The organization will do everything they can to keep him and facilitate his growth as a young man. It's all up to him and I think he's capable of being a legendary player for this franchise.
Regardless, the bottom line is that OBJ is an extremely dynamic, ridiculously productive WR who happens to be a fairly typical representative of his generation and their embrace of celebrity and social media. There is absolutely no evidence that he's a bad teammate or a "me-first" guy. Other than one unfortunate incident, there's also no evidence that he's a bad guy on the field or off of it, or that he can't handle the fame that he so richly deserves.
OBJ gets paid to play football, and so far he's shown that he's worth every penny (and then some). He's not paid to be a role model. He's not paid to stifle his natural exuberance or love of the game. He's not paid to be anything other than what he is - one of the best damned WRs I've ever seen. The Giants are lucky to have him.
Hopefully, he can mature into someone I respect.
Odell has shown thus far into his career that he is a relentless competitor who never takes time off from trying to get better. He wants to be the greatest ever and he wants to win. Losing his composure against a dude who was goading and threatening him on one Sunday afternoon changes none of that for me.
He is a lion. Give me a player like him every single day of the week. He busts his ass and works as hard as anyone in the sport.
Tim Duncan's of the world, pretty rare birds. Most players of Odell's talent are egomaniacs -- he has an ego so be it.
Plenty of athletes play with an edge--Micheal Jordan talked shit, LT played with an edge and was no saint. Deion was flashy. They were still effective.
When OBJ hurts Giants with his behavior and his antics in a meaningful way, the holier than thou crowd can then rightfully complain.
I don't think he will give them that chance.....
I think far too often fans interpret player quotes far to literally and only see things as black and white when its everything but. Its all gray and we know little to nothing about what really goes on.
To me, Odell right now is larger than life from an NFL standpoint and he's experienced the highs of fame, with the lows of being a target. He's a celebrity now, in NYC no less, and he's playing that part. If he played on a team I hated, I'm sure I'd dislike him, but until he actually commits a crime or destroys the morale of this team, I have nothing to complain about with him.
I love Odell the player. So fun to watch.
But a lot of how I'll consider him as a man, and I suppose yes, it will carry over into how I feel about him in blue, will have to do with the first time the Giants play the Redskins this season.
Everybody deserves a second chance to prove themselves after screwing up. It's about growing ... the way I see it.
I'm looking for him to take care of business.
Your post made me reflect on how much I hated that about the 9ers, they were akin to soccer floppers almost with their constant pointing.
Funny thing two was they ran borderline illegal pick routes more than anyone and were great at it. Nowadays they are called "rub" routes but back then they were picks and illegal.
It was a big learning day for OBJ.
I doubt it happens again.
Yuuuuuuuge TC fan here and he didn't do his job that day, step in, take OBJ out and talk to him/bench him.
When I think back to that pre-game nonsense, it baffles me that the Panthers organization got away with doing it. I suppose baseball bats are benign when it comes to such a violent game. Wonder if they'd have taken it a notch further - wielding toy swords, or even toy guns - how it might have gone.
Taunting opposition in pre-game with baseball bats ... pretty fucking amazing it was allowed to happen, and at OUR stadium! Nuts.
Tim Duncan's of the world, pretty rare birds. Most players of Odell's talent are egomaniacs -- he has an ego so be it.
Plenty of athletes play with an edge--Micheal Jordan talked shit, LT played with an edge and was no saint. Deion was flashy. They were still effective.
When OBJ hurts Giants with his behavior and his antics in a meaningful way, the holier than thou crowd can then rightfully complain.
I don't think he will give them that chance.....
I agree, my friend. And as football fans, we've known that the WR position is one filled with egos, and why not? These guys have to believe in themselves to an extreme degree that they are the best out there to make those catches against some of the best defenders in the world.
I do not appreciate Odell's off field style at all - same with other flamboyant players. I guess it is a cultural and age gap thing. But I don't care for it at all and have less respect for the person with that behavior. Simple truth. Some won't like that open honesty, but, there it is.
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
GO GIANTS.
I feel the same. Maybe b/c I'm 56 though.
But can't this be said about OBJ as well? That he's a hard worker and a guy who kept (and is keeping) his nose clean off the field?
Unless we're going to say that enjoying being young, rich, and famous isn't keeping one's nose clean, I don't see OBJ doing anything off the field that's alarming other than to people (bunch of get off my lawn types), who don't like his lifestyle.
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In comment 13046392 RC02XX said:
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In comment 13046360 gmenatlarge said:
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is a little too self-promoting and needs to mature.
Self-defense c'mon, I mean norman started it and the refs didn't help but he tried to take the guy's head off!
OMG! A celebrity professional athlete is too self-promoting? Oh no! How dare he try to continue to brand himself to reap the benefit of his popularity.
Nice overreaction, football is a team sport, the guys more concerned with themselves over the team, ala the Carolina game don't win!
Sure thing, bro. Because he was the cause of the Carolina loss and the other losses. Do you even watch our games?
Check the thread it's "do you like him a little less" and I just made a point where you turn it into an attack. Oh and by the way he did drop a TD pass in that game maybe because he was unfocused due to being more concerned with showing up norman. Anyway it's an opinion thread not right or wrong if you like him more for that so be it.
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Rice is still a good example of a hard worker and a guy who kept his nose clean off the field. Of course Rice is not perfect. Compare that to Owens, Moss, Carter and Harrison, Rice's closest production peers.
But can't this be said about OBJ as well? That he's a hard worker and a guy who kept (and is keeping) his nose clean off the field?
Unless we're going to say that enjoying being young, rich, and famous isn't keeping one's nose clean, I don't see OBJ doing anything off the field that's alarming other than to people (bunch of get off my lawn types), who don't like his lifestyle.
That's my take too, fans want their cake while eating it too and don't realize how common this is. I'm not excusing his actions but this will likely be a tiny blip on Odells career. But hey, we could have a guy like Josh Gordon instead..
His off-field antics are harmless. Doesn't reflect bad on the Giants at all. Let him have some fun.
He's the most dynamic player the Giants have had since LT, IMO. A few games w/o incident and all will be forgiven. I'm sure other teams will try their best to get Odell to flip out and lose his edge.
First off, I was giving you shit for saying he's too self-promoting. He's a celebrity and trying to establish a brand, so why not be self-promoting. And second, how do you know he dropped the TD pass because he was more focused on showing up Norman? Opinions are one thing, making baseless assertion is another. And if you watched the game, there were far more issues with that game than OBJ alone.
I've never heard of another team bringing a taunting prop like a bat on the field pre-game, wielded by a sweatpants-wearing practice squad player to boot.
There were a lot of things I saw in that game that I had never seen or rarely seen, including having a player bodyslam another guy right in front of the ref without a penalty getting thrown.
But it is absolutely mind-boggling that the Panthers brought a bat on the field - and people may not know this, but practice squad guys aren't even supposed to be on the field at away games. I believe that violates a rule.
So far so good. But I think he runs the risk of too much celebrity before he earns the hardware. I'd also hope he doesn't run his mouth about Norman anymore.
All mostly benign though.
Hopefully, he can mature into someone I respect.
DUCK!
I think it's disgusting.
He cant lose his mind like that again, but one time was good to put future defenses on notice that hes not a punk.
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I've never seen anything remotely like it in all the years I've watched the NFL and hope to never see this again.
I've never heard of another team bringing a taunting prop like a bat on the field pre-game, wielded by a sweatpants-wearing practice squad player to boot.
There were a lot of things I saw in that game that I had never seen or rarely seen, including having a player bodyslam another guy right in front of the ref without a penalty getting thrown.
But it is absolutely mind-boggling that the Panthers brought a bat on the field - and people may not know this, but practice squad guys aren't even supposed to be on the field at away games. I believe that violates a rule.
Exactly. If you're being threatened with weapons before the game and body slammed during the game, you're not gonna invite the guy over for Sunday biscuits.
His off-field antics are harmless. Doesn't reflect bad on the Giants at all. Let him have some fun.
He's the most dynamic player the Giants have had since LT, IMO. A few games w/o incident and all will be forgiven. I'm sure other teams will try their best to get Odell to flip out and lose his edge.
So unless you've totally missed this part of Gross Blau Oberst's post, which you stated you agree with:
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
You're sort of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
And with your last sentence ("A few games w/o incident and all will be forgiven."), you make it sound like he regularly has incidents. What is there to forgive when for the most part, he doesn't have issues on the field beyond being passionate.
He cant lose his mind like that again, but one time was good to put future defenses on notice that hes not a punk.
this is beyond stupid. YOu put defenses on notice by BEATING them with your play. Catching the easy TD, not by acting like an idiot
All I care about is him showing up on game day and giving 100 percent.
I have no reason to believe the Carolina game was anything more than an anomaly...I also think the Panthers got away with a lot of crap.
So far so good. But I think he runs the risk of too much celebrity before he earns the hardware. I'd also hope he doesn't run his mouth about Norman anymore.
All mostly benign though.
Eh...I'm not too concerned. Let the young man live it up while he is the toast of the league and town. And who he associates with may be distasteful to many (others may find it just as distasteful if he was siding up to people like Trump or Giuliani, etc.), but as you state, most of what he does is benign.
Beckham by all accounts does his job, and he obviously does it extremely well. If he were removed from the picture it's difficult to imagine the team playing better.
Do you tolerate the clownish behavior and move forward. As long as he doesn't incur personal fouls (which has been a problem at times) the clown act is harmless. Showing up opponents is classless, but he isn't being paid to be classy.
My only concern would be that there is more or less an unspoken bounty on him because of it. You can tell that there are a lot of guys in the league that want to be the guy that shot Jesse James.
You're sort of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
And with your last sentence ("A few games w/o incident and all will be forgiven."), you make it sound like he regularly has incidents. What is there to forgive when for the most part, he doesn't have issues on the field beyond being passionate.
Thought about it some more and decided his off field stuff isn't bad at all for a young man.
w/o incident refers to the belief I have that other teams will try their best to knock Odell off his game and lose his cool. I hope they can't do it.
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Wayyy more after the incident. Showed he's a fighter, not a pretty boy that was going to be intimidated by slurs, pregame bats and bullying. And I bet players around the league respected him way more after it too.
He cant lose his mind like that again, but one time was good to put future defenses on notice that hes not a punk.
this is beyond stupid. YOu put defenses on notice by BEATING them with your play. Catching the easy TD, not by acting like an idiot
Defenses will try everything to stop a player, on the field schemes as well as psych games. If its known that a player is soft and you can get in his head and bully them, they will exploit that more and more. Especially with OBJ who has the gay rumors surrounding him and the movie star looks, etc.
He needed to defend himself...and guess what... Coughlin agreed and that's why he left him in the game. You have to look at the big picture, not just about penalty yards that hurt the team for that one game, but long term benefit to the development of a player and league perception of them moving forward. Anyway, thats my opinion. Your welcome to cry about the two penalties he got, i personally like him alot more after it.
But I used to defend him as "not DeSean or Dez" for a while. I felt like what differentiated Odell was his intelligence. Off-the field, he's simply a smarter individual than "fake-Crip" DeSean and "overgrown 12 year old" Dez.
But I've come to accept he's closer to those guys in terms of personality than I hoped for. He's absolutely got some Diva qualities on the field. He knows he's a big deal. But he combines some of that DeSean ultra-cockiness with that blind competitive rage like we see from Dez.
Still a guy who can be a generational star, and he seems to have the hunger and work ethic to reach that level. He just needs to calm down a bit on the field.
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You're sort of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
And with your last sentence ("A few games w/o incident and all will be forgiven."), you make it sound like he regularly has incidents. What is there to forgive when for the most part, he doesn't have issues on the field beyond being passionate.
Thought about it some more and decided his off field stuff isn't bad at all for a young man.
w/o incident refers to the belief I have that other teams will try their best to knock Odell off his game and lose his cool. I hope they can't do it.
Gotcha...thanks for the clarification...:)
As far as Odell goes, sports are a performance-based business. They're not like your kid's 3rd grade play with the goals of "Try(ing) your best and have fun." No one has performed better at the position in his first 2 seasons than Odell. Why would I like him less because he lost his cool in dealing with a CONFIRMED asshole? Why would his dating life have any bearing on how I view him as a player?
Once again...when was the last time he dragged it back out other than this article? He's been pretty good about not taking the bait whenever Norman would talk shit. Seriously, where are you people seeing his continuing to talk about it?
The person that I lost respect for was Coughlin. I was an admirer of Coughlin. For a coach that was known as a disciplinarian to let that get so out of hand was ridiculous. He should have parked Beckham on the bench until he cooled down.
He's guilty of being 22 years old and likking dancing and dressing in expensive clothes.
He's guilty of being 22 years old and likking dancing and dressing in expensive clothes.
On this thread alone I asked the same question to two different posters. Still waiting for an answer.
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Check the thread it's "do you like him a little less" and I just made a point where you turn it into an attack. Oh and by the way he did drop a TD pass in that game maybe because he was unfocused due to being more concerned with showing up norman. Anyway it's an opinion thread not right or wrong if you like him more for that so be it.
First off, I was giving you shit for saying he's too self-promoting. He's a celebrity and trying to establish a brand, so why not be self-promoting. And second, how do you know he dropped the TD pass because he was more focused on showing up Norman? Opinions are one thing, making baseless assertion is another. And if you watched the game, there were far more issues with that game than OBJ alone.
There you go again read what I said "maybe" you turn it into an attack. And yeah I watched the game as much as I could stomach. This is not a "right or wrong " issue which you keep twisting it into. I like odell but like the thread said "a little less" If you don't fine! End of story.
Imagine of the other guys had half the heart and hunger that he does. I also like the way he handled it and owned it in the end.
I'm so sick of Giants "fans" who criticized him for it. As if they would have all conducted themselves any differently
He's guilty of being 22 years old and likking dancing and dressing in expensive clothes.
Pre-Season, he made a very dirty play because he got over-emotional. He's also acted crazy on the sidelines a few times because of how pumped up he is.
I don't want to neuter him, but he needs to chill a little bit.
The fact that a 22-year-old kid doesn't know fully how to control that doesn't concern me in the slightest. If he had the same issues at, say 28, I would be disappointed. But not now
I love his production and I hope he can mature and move past those events. But the Carolina game definitely lowered my opinion of him.
I always draw the line when a players transgressions are actual off-field crimes/problems. I lose all respect for guys who hit women, put children in danger, etc.
Beckham is a good kid. He's just super, super intense. But that's just who he is and who he always will be. Yes, he will mature a bit as he grows in certain ways.. but I don't expect him to ever be any less fierce on the field.
Look at Steve Smith Sr. Even in his old age, the man still plays like he has a huge chip on his shoulder. It's just who he is.
he invites headhunting, and he shies from it when the defender goes aggressive. In this particular game he decided to retaliate. It hasn't hurt us because the Giants have pretty much sucked donkey balls since he was drafted (not because he was drafted). If we ever do become competitive again, he'll likely hurt the team with this kind of behavior, and then it'll be a matter of whether his plusses outweigh the minusses.
I like having him on the team. he's a net plus. but it's pretty obvious he's got a showboat mentality which many, including myself, find obnoxious. It is not juvenile to say that.
That's shocking. Giving star players what they want? However I do remember TC benching Nicks for skipping practice. It was against the Cows in a week we really needed Nick's ass on the field.
I always draw the line when a players transgressions are actual off-field crimes/problems. I lose all respect for guys who hit women, put children in danger, etc.
Beckham is a good kid. He's just super, super intense. But that's just who he is and who he always will be. Yes, he will mature a bit as he grows in certain ways.. but I don't expect him to ever be any less fierce on the field.
Look at Steve Smith Sr. Even in his old age, the man still plays like he has a huge chip on his shoulder. It's just who he is.
Just opened the thread up to say the exact same thing. You can't have it both ways in some scenarios. Not everyone is Eli/Jeter. Not everyone is going to quietly be a star player. Maybe Odell does find that ability one day, but at what cost?
The Panther game was an outlier, IMO. There's simply no way, in my mind, he didn't learn from that experience. He's still going to showboat, he's still going to taunt on occasion, and I can definitely live with it if its within the realm of the rules. As long as he's not soured his place on this team, I have no issues with it.
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The concept of Coughlin as a disciplinarian went out the window in 2007 when he basically let Plax do whatever he wanted. When Steve Smith said that he never saw Plax at practice I was floored.
That's shocking. Giving star players what they want? However I do remember TC benching Nicks for skipping practice. It was against the Cows in a week we really needed Nick's ass on the field.
It's one thing to give a star player some leeway, but it's something else to completely let him do what he wasn't at the expense of the team. It's easy to forget because of the gun incident, but things between Plax and the team had already completely broken down well before that point. Coughlin and Reese have a good share of the blame for that.
He could be a douchebag but he's our douchbag!
Gee, I don't know.. maybe because there's a major fucking difference between being a criminal and being demonstrative on a football field?
Football is entertainment at the end of the day. It's a sport. Some of you guys need to get over yourselves. Calling a 23 year old kid a "douchebag" because he plays the game with a passion or because there was an isolated incident where he lost his cool after being threatened is really ridiculous.
Its well within your right. But if that's what you think after watching him play, watching him with kids, and watching him be completely clean off the field, then I guess I can just as easily think you are a douche too.
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allowed to think of him as a douchebag, regardless of whether he abuses women and children? why is criminal behavior a prerequisite?
He could be a douchebag but he's our douchbag!
This is the crux of the whole thing. Like I said above if he were on the Eagle we'd be calling him a clown and an asshole. Instead we're calling him intense and a competitor. It's all about perspective.
He's a great player and hopefully he keeps his head screwed on straight.
Norman is also a clown, but Beckham brings it on himself. There's a reason Norman wasn't going after Randle.
People target Beckham because he shows up opponents. Thus far no one has really made him pay for it, but if he keeps it up it's only a matter of time.
Eh...of course you can think of him as a douchebag based on your lifestyle norms and values. His playing style on the field and life style off the field aren't for everyone. It's all a matter of each person's preference.
However, beyond the Panthers game and a few occasions when he's gotten the other team riled up to target him (game against the Rams for example), OBJ has done far far more to help the team than to hurt the team. Matter of fact, he has hurt the team less with all of his antics (which is what most people bitch about) than many of our players have with their actual play on the field.
People make mountains of mole hills when it comes to the way OBJ plays (aside from the outlier event of the Panthers game). So since he hasn't really hurt the team with his on the field acts nor his off the field acts, people do get a bit annoyed when he gets portrayed as this problem child, which he isn't.
I'm pretty sure there aren't any other games where Beckham was launching himself helmet first into another player and swinging at him after every other play. It absolutely was out of character.
Why Norman targeted Beckham over Randle is pretty obvious. Rueben Randle wasn't beating anyone singlehandedly or winning football games. Beckham can. Norman targeted him because he wanted to throw him off his game and because he knew he couldn't cover him.
If being demonstrative is "showing up opponents" than Odell is about one of 50 other WR's in the NFL doing the same thing.
He's a target because no one can cover him one on one and it drives these defenders crazy.
Norman is also a clown, but Beckham brings it on himself. There's a reason Norman wasn't going after Randle.
People target Beckham because he shows up opponents. Thus far no one has really made him pay for it, but if he keeps it up it's only a matter of time.
Some of the greatest players showboat and rub it in their opponents' faces. Not sure why this is such a problem with OBJ. I'm sure Cruz doing his salsa isn't really liked by many players either. It's not like he's gone out of his way to "Suh" an opponent with no provocation.
Everything we've heard about this kid is that he's a good kid with an enormous personality. He's a true team player, who lets his emotion drive him to greatness.
Not sure why this is a big deal and why so many people are afraid that he's going to cost this team anything in the future on the field. He'll give far far more to this team than ever take away from it.
I do not appreciate Odell's off field style at all - same with other flamboyant players. I guess it is a cultural and age gap thing. But I don't care for it at all and have less respect for the person with that behavior. Simple truth. Some won't like that open honesty, but, there it is.
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
GO GIANTS.
What exactly has Beckham done off the field that you don't "appreciate"?
I'm pretty sure there aren't any other games where Beckham was launching himself helmet first into another player and swinging at him after every other play. It absolutely was out of character.
Beckham was fined after the Bills game in October. Yes it wasn't to the extent of what happened vs Carolina, but it was similar circumstances. He felt the Bills were targeting him and he retaliated against them by throwing punches. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Panthers noted that in the game tape.
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I did not like his loss of self composure and how it reflected on him, the team, the coach and the Giants as an organization. He should have been pulled from the game after the second flare up, long before the attempted head ramming. Norman got inside his head and Odell lost self control and retaliated for whatever provoked him.
I do not appreciate Odell's off field style at all - same with other flamboyant players. I guess it is a cultural and age gap thing. But I don't care for it at all and have less respect for the person with that behavior. Simple truth. Some won't like that open honesty, but, there it is.
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
GO GIANTS.
What exactly has Beckham done off the field that you don't "appreciate"?
"Flamboyant arrogance", whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean. I'm waiting for Limericks Guy to talk about "the elephant in the room".
Good lord...
Good lord...
The NFL fines players for throwing punches in nearly ever football game? Crazy!
I would rather player with fire than one who doesn't give a shit.
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Wow, he did something in the Buffalo game that happens in nearly every football game. Crazy! What a lunatic. Someone needs to get him off a football field immediately.
Good lord...
The NFL fines players for throwing punches in nearly ever football game? Crazy!
Players are fined all the time. It's not even always reported or made light of. If you haven't noticed that this stuff goes on in most NFL games, you might want to get a nice pair of glasses.
This is hardly comparable to the game against Carolina. Launching yourself head first into someone's earhole is infinitely more dangerous than slapping a player wearing a helmet with your bare hand.
Beckham is a good kid. He's just super, super intense. But that's just who he is and who he always will be. Yes, he will mature a bit as he grows in certain ways.. but I don't expect him to ever be any less fierce on the field.
To me he's the Giants' equivalent to Draymond Green, only far more talented at his respective position. His on-field antics reflect poorly on him especially if you're not a Giants fan, but we all know he's not exactly Bill Romanowski.
I'm far less annoyed by Beckham than I am by double standards and hypocrisy by fans.
Guess how long it took me to find this?
Norman was goading Beckham the same way. Sometimes players lose their composure.
As an example, remember when we signed Lavar Arrington? While he was with the Redskins he was (correctly) criticized as being an undisciplined player that was generally overrated due to his draft status. But then we signed him and all of a sudden the perspective of most of the people changed; apparently he became a good player once he was a Giant.
Well that's bullshit. It's one thing to root for a team and its players to do well, and quite another to be hold double standards.
There's nothing wrong with rooting for Beckham while acknowledging the possibility that he might be an asshole. Who cares as long as he keeps playing well?
But I am absolutely certain that there isn't a person here that would call him a "good kid" if he played for any other team.
And what has he done for me...specifically me...to think he isn't a good kid?
He's done nothing to impact my life at all other than make Giants games a little more enjoyable.
I think some of you guys just love to complain about Giant players not living up to your standards...
I feel he is pretty grounded and that is a tribute to the way he was raised.
The fight was a double edge sword for me. He took it to Norman and yes it cost the team and his rep a lot but it also showed how intense he is and isn't going to back down.
I hate DeSean Jackson because I have memories of him torching the Giants in crucial spots and because he's now played for 2 of our 3 biggest rivals. Not because he gets up after a tackle sometimes and pushes the guy who tackled him or takes a quick swing at him and not because he celebrates when he scores. I would feel the same way about Beckham if the tables were turned. I would hate him because the Giants couldn't stop him and because he played for a rival. Not because he was demonstrative on the field after a big play or because he scuffled with someone after a play. That shit is all over the league. You literally see it in every game. Guys celebrate, guys scuffle. It's football.
I don't know much about Jackson off the field and don't really care to but I do know that Beckham is a very family oriented guy who is very close with his parents, does good things for kids in his free time and is harmless. I don't think having the type of day he had against the Panthers makes him a "bad kid".. I think by all accounts, he's a 23 year old who is growing up and enjoying his life. He doesn't do anything wrong off the field or anything that is atypical of a kid his age. The disdain from some of these posters is just so ridiculous to me. Give me a break with the holier than thou bullshit. As if no one here ever lost their temper in their early 20's or did something they regret. Stop.
Defenses haven't figured out how to stop him. "Toughness and Physicality" are the closest things to question marks as there is in Odell's game. It hasn't always been like the Rams game, but defenses play extra dirty against Odell in general. It's obvious imo. Odell and the Giants as a team probably know this because they see it on tape.
Odell seems to have a "if ur gonna do it to me, I'm gonna repay the favor" type of mindset. This was the case before the Norman thing imo. This was the main thing Cromartie called Odell out on. It was a known thing that Odell gets pissed off if ur extra physical with him, Norman just took it to another level because he saw after 1 series he couldn't keep up with Odell in a fair matchup.
Odell's standing up for himself and I get that. But the Norman thing is absolutely not the only dirty thing he's done in his career so far, even if u want to excuse it as him repaying guys for being dirty on him.
We really really really need to stop comparing this to Andres beat down of Finnegan. Andre embarrassed Finnegan, Odell embarrassed himself for what he did to Norman. Odell let a clearly inferior player in Norman get in his head. He's too good to let anyone get in his head
It is possible to objectively say "You know, this guy Beckham is kind of a dick" and still root for him to continue to play well. These guys aren't our friends.
The bigger question may be why fans need to maintain the illusion that they root for nice people on their sports teams. Look around your work place: you gonna tell me that out of 53 people in your office or whatever there aren't a few gaping assholes?
And I guess here is where my subjectivity comes in. I think someone that touchdown dances like the ones Beckham does are lame, and are generally performed by people like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, and Desean Jackson. I consider those people to be assholes, and I'm probably joined by 95% of Giants fans in that feeling.
But that same 95% doesn't apply the same standard to one of our players. I have a tough time with that.
This reminds me of the big furfuffle several years ago with Colin Kaeparnik and the post game presser.
I'm far less annoyed by Beckham than I am by double standards and hypocrisy by fans.
It's called fandom. And by all account, fandom is based around double standards and hypocrisy.
It is possible to objectively say "You know, this guy Beckham is kind of a dick" and still root for him to continue to play well. These guys aren't our friends.
The bigger question may be why fans need to maintain the illusion that they root for nice people on their sports teams. Look around your work place: you gonna tell me that out of 53 people in your office or whatever there aren't a few gaping assholes?
And I guess here is where my subjectivity comes in. I think someone that touchdown dances like the ones Beckham does are lame, and are generally performed by people like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, and Desean Jackson. I consider those people to be assholes, and I'm probably joined by 95% of Giants fans in that feeling.
But that same 95% doesn't apply the same standard to one of our players. I have a tough time with that.
It's the freaking NFL.. it's a super violent sport. Why do I need the players I root for to be "nice" on the football field? Not everyone is Eli Manning and not everyone should be.
But that's not the point. The point is that by all accounts, he's a good dude off the field and that's why I say he's a good kid. If he's not getting in trouble off the field or causing any issues, why would I call him a bad guy or say he's a douchebag? I'd say the same about a player on a rival team. If Jordan Matthews was super demonstrative and fiery on the field but wasn't doing anything wrong off of it I would only dislike him from the standpoint of him being an Eagle.
He plays with a flair and gets emotionally supercharged sometimes. So what. It's part of what makes him great.
I also loved Owens when he was in SF.. the only thing I ever hated about him was that he was an Eagle and a Cowboy. So I guess that's where we differ. I thought he was one of the most dominant WR's I've ever seen and found him entertaining. I just hated when his ability came at our expense. He's a HoF player and one of the best ever. Does it really matter that he celebrated or danced and enjoyed the game he played?
[quote}There's nothing wrong with rooting for Beckham while acknowledging the possibility that he might be an asshole. Who cares as long as he keeps playing well?
But I am absolutely certain that there isn't a person here that would call him a "good kid" if he played for any other team. [/quote]
And how do you know he's an asshole and not a good kid? Have you got insider information on this that go counter to what many others have stated about him as a person?
And yes, you are right we judge people on the other teams terribly compare to people on our own team. Biggest example is Tony Romo. Do you know how many people on BBI think that Tony Romo is an asshole because he plays for the Cowboys and wears his hat backward with a shit eating grin? Plenty. However, from everything that I've ever read, Tony Romo is one of the nicest and most sincere people in the league.
But that's called fandom.
It is possible to objectively say "You know, this guy Beckham is kind of a dick" and still root for him to continue to play well. These guys aren't our friends.
The bigger question may be why fans need to maintain the illusion that they root for nice people on their sports teams. Look around your work place: you gonna tell me that out of 53 people in your office or whatever there aren't a few gaping assholes?
And I guess here is where my subjectivity comes in. I think someone that touchdown dances like the ones Beckham does are lame, and are generally performed by people like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, and Desean Jackson. I consider those people to be assholes, and I'm probably joined by 95% of Giants fans in that feeling.
But that same 95% doesn't apply the same standard to one of our players. I have a tough time with that.
People hate those guys because they played for rivals
I doubt you would get anywhere close to a majority of people hating Ocho Cinco
I enjoy watching Odell. I don't know if he's a good person or not. But I'd still root for him if he threw sticks at people in Central Park like in Big Daddy.
Norman was goading Beckham the same way. Sometimes players lose their composure.
Well I never said Beckham was a "douchebag", but the OPs question was whether I thought less of him. But yes, I thought less of Andre Johnson after that incident.
I enjoy watching Odell. I don't know if he's a good person or not. But I'd still root for him if he threw sticks at people in Central Park like in Big Daddy.
People who know him personally have attested to Beckham being a great kid. And don't doubt my words.
I don't think Romo is an asshole because he plays for a rival. That's ridiculous. It just makes him someone I want to see lose.
I don't think Romo is an asshole because he plays for a rival. That's ridiculous. It just makes him someone I want to see lose.
Maybe not you...but you have to admit that Tony Romo is pretty much despised as a person (beyond a football player) on BBI with such flimsy reasons but that's fandom.
His losing control and possibly costing the Giants a possible playoff chance was inexcusable and hopefully he learned from it and nothing similar will ever happen again.
He needs to keep "Brand Odell" and as far away from the field as possible.
What a time to be alive!
So he's an asshole. So what? I don't feel the need to make a case otherwise and I'm certainly not calling for the Giants to get rid of him because of it.
I don't give a shit what people that I don't know say about how he is off the field. Keep catching touchdowns and don't get suspended.
I'm fine rooting for an asshole. The guy is an incredible football player. Just don't tell me what a nice guy he is when the image he puts out to the world on Sunday is that of a huge asshole. I don't need the reassurance that he is something other than what he is showing me.
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I don't really care about the type of people they are off the field as long as they're not criminals (and I'm glad the Giants generally have a high bar when it comes to that stuff).
I enjoy watching Odell. I don't know if he's a good person or not. But I'd still root for him if he threw sticks at people in Central Park like in Big Daddy.
People who know him personally have attested to Beckham being a great kid. And don't doubt my words.
I find that believable. He can be obnoxious on the field but be great off it.
I will always doubt your words, though.
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The only proof I have that Beckham is an asshole is that he shows up his opponents and plays with no class. That's really just personal preference. I would consider such a person an asshole. Others may not.
I don't think Romo is an asshole because he plays for a rival. That's ridiculous. It just makes him someone I want to see lose.
Maybe not you...but you have to admit that Tony Romo is pretty much despised as a person (beyond a football player) on BBI with such flimsy reasons but that's fandom.
Yeah, and those people are idiots.
Was I supposed to hate Darrell Green because he played for Washington?
I don't think that's fandom. I think it's stupidity.
Was I supposed to hate Darrell Green because he played for Washington?
I don't think that's fandom. I think it's stupidity.
Fandom and stupidity also go hand in hand.
I will murder you. Doubt those words at your own risk...
I take into account the fact that he is young, he has a spotlight on him and he is also a fierce competitor. But calling your team out when they are down 35-7 vs Carolina and saying they lost interest by talking about "what are we doing after the game?" was a bad idea and raised eyebrows I'm sure.
If I am Odell, I keep my mouth shut and just play this year. Period end of story.
Finnegan was one of the dirtiest players in football. Norman is just a big mouth with a skill set for coverage, but is a cheap shot hitter.
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Who is remembered more fondly, Jerry Rice or Randy Moss?
Yes I believe in the responsibility of a Pro Athlete, a role model, etc to be better than that. We expect it from our military, our policemen/policewomen, etc and they don't have the fame or the money that pro athletes do.
It may just be his kryptonite. Norman can't compete with him physically so he got in his head. It's sad that is part of the game but it is. It could very well be the one thing that stops him from being the best ever. Can OBJ mature out of it?
All that being said there is no reason he can't fix this. It can very easily be looked back on as immaturity. OBJ vs Norman twice a year will be interesting to watch and will hopefully do great things for both of their career. If OBJ can fix that part of his game, which I believe is his biggest hurdle, he could be the best ever and Norman would end up an afterthought.
I respected Rice, but felt like Moss was a more physically gifted player.
Rather face Rice than Moss in their primes.
Point?
Sorry I'm late responding. I totally agree with your opinion on Rice and Moss. That is exactly my point and I guess I didn't make it clear. Who is most commonly regarded as the best WR ever? Hell some would claim Rice to be one of the best players ever. Yet Moss, in my opinion and yours, had more talent. So what's the difference between the two?
If you had to guess right now, outside of an injury, what would be the one thing that could hold Beckham back from being the best ever? It's not talent as his first 2 years have been incredible. I suppose he could retire too early but I doubt that. OBJ needs to decide if he wants to be the greatest ever and supplant Jerry Rice or be the next Terrel Owens, Ocho Cinco, or at best Randy Moss.
Contrast that with Anquan Boldin in that same game. Boldin was three years younger than Moss but with much more wear and tear, and a fraction of the talent. Boldin played that game like his life depended on it. A man possessed.
Or contrast it with Jerry Rice himself. At age 40 he had 92 catches for the Raiders, and in the Super Bowl played a huge game against a brutal Tampa defense.
Talent is only part of it. Gotta have heart and brains.
Recently I noticed that they have first been playing up Beckham then Norman which I assume is their trying to set up some kind of rivalry; IMHO they better review the tapes that I'm sure they have lying around in some closet and see if Norman is really the type of guy that the league wants to hang its hat on.
My mistake. Somehow I forgot he was in 42.
David. It wasn't? Football reference doesn't have any stats for him beyond that game.
Nevermind, completely forgot he was on SF. The post NE Moss and Oakland Moss never happened in my mind lol.
So he's an asshole. So what? I don't feel the need to make a case otherwise and I'm certainly not calling for the Giants to get rid of him because of it.
I don't give a shit what people that I don't know say about how he is off the field. Keep catching touchdowns and don't get suspended.
I'm fine rooting for an asshole. The guy is an incredible football player. Just don't tell me what a nice guy he is when the image he puts out to the world on Sunday is that of a huge asshole. I don't need the reassurance that he is something other than what he is showing me.
The disagreement here is that you're calling a guy an asshole because of the way he plays football. I've seen and read enough about what he does off the field to hold what I feel is an informed enough opinion that he is not at all an "asshole". Just because he plays with a flair and is a mega intense dude or celebrates after a big play doesn't make him an asshole in my book. Is he Barry Sanders? No, and he doesn't need to be. He's Odell Beckham. I think he acted like a shitty dude on 12/20/15. I also think that was an outlier.
You've already admitted that you know nothing about what he does off the field and don't care to and that's fine. I don't exactly follow his off field life daily but I do know enough to say that he's not a bad kid by any means.
You know who's an asshole? Greg Hardy is an asshole. Ray Rice is an asshole. Guys like that are who I have a problem with. Not guys who go all out on the field and don't do anything wrong off of it.
Like I said. If Beckham was on another team, I'd say the same things I say about someone like DeSean Jackson. I hate the guy, think he's annoying to play against and want to see him get leveled every time he has the football. I'd still respect the talent (even though Beckham is quite a bit better than Jackson). It's just being a fan. So, no.. all of this "if Beckham were an Eagle..." and complaining about a double standard is really just a waste of time.
And like I said I'm fine accepting that he's a shitty dude. If he does his job as well as he's been doing it that's all that fundamentally matters.
Let's try to stay in the realm of the reasonable. He likes to dance after touchdowns. That goes back to Billy White Shoes Johnson like half a century ago.
I also don't think Odell is as hated as you might think. I'm sure guys in this league want to lay him out but there are also times during most games where a defender will take him down and he'll get up and give them a quick pat on the helmet and say "hey, nice play". I think there's still a degree of respect. I'd rather more of that and less of the celebrating but it's just who he is.. I don't think any less of him for it.
He looked pretty damn stupid doing it.
No, I just don't believe in disrespecting other players.
I agree with you that it's happening all over the field. Beckham isn't the only guy doing really shitty dances.
But there's no doubt a lot of people seem to think it's pretty cool. You've got me there.
You don't seem to be able to distinguish between celebrating an accomplishment and disrespecting an opponent.
And if Beckham wants to keep showing people up, fine. I'm not calling for him to be benched or traded. He doesn't owe me anything. If he wants to, in my opinion, look like a god damn fool every time he scores a TD that's his prerogative. And it's my prerogative to think he's an asshole.
I don't care. I just take it with a huge mountain of salt when anyone tells me he's a good mood when they're saying it basically just because of the jersey he wears.
No...I actually have family who has personal knowledge of the kind of guy he is...and they have nothing but good thing to say about him. It has nothing to do with the color of his jersey at this point in the discussion.
And the family is a cousin (well, my brother's in-laws), who works for the Giants.
You don't? You'd be in a vast minority then, because everyone on this board has been calling guys like Terrell Owens and Desean Jackson (whose behavior I find identical to Beckham's) assholes and worse for years.
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Ugh.
No...I actually have family who has personal knowledge of the kind of guy he is...and they have nothing but good thing to say about him. It has nothing to do with the color of his jersey at this point in the discussion.
And the family is a cousin (well, my brother's in-laws), who works for the Giants.
That's great. And he's still a guy that acts like a jerk on the field.
Desean I could see. Except Odell doesn't pretend to be a crip, and doesn't owe his agent large sums of money.
In the NFL, it's literally the only question left.
The whole Norman saga showed he still has a ? Next to toughness. And this isn't just about that. It's about him acting out at times against overly physical/dirty opponents in the past. The Buffalo game wasn't just that cheap shot, he was acting funny that entire game. Same with the Panthers game, it wasn't just that dirty missile job it was the entire game. Hes targeted DBs in other games too, the Jax preseason game when he nailed Sergio Brown with a dirty shot. And Malcol Butlers physical play really bothered Odell in that Pats game.
Odell had a 1450/13 season in 15 games. But he dropped like 3 TDs including a couple of very important ones. He can be soo good. He just needs to chill out a bit imo, he can still be highly competitive amd retain that fire.
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they do on the field.
You don't? You'd be in a vast minority then, because everyone on this board has been calling guys like Terrell Owens and Desean Jackson (whose behavior I find identical to Beckham's) assholes and worse for years.
Next time Beckham runs out to the star at midfield at Cowboys stadium or breaks out a sharpie......etc...etc.
Comparing him to T.O. Is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen on this board.
He's incredibly talented and also has room to grow up.
He's incredibly talented and also has room to grow up.
I'm pretty conservative when it comes to expressiveness. However, to "like him less" or not be able to root for him when he's had two of the best seasons a young WR has ever had is complete self righteousness. There's no two ways about it. If this were Freddie Mitchell or someone I'd understand it.
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a generational thing. Everyone's allowed their own take on it, within reason.
He's incredibly talented and also has room to grow up.
I'm pretty conservative when it comes to expressiveness. However, to "like him less" or not be able to root for him when he's had two of the best seasons a young WR has ever had is complete self righteousness. There's no two ways about it. If this were Freddie Mitchell or someone I'd understand it.
So you're a great guy if you act like a jerk but score lots of touchdowns. Got it.
I guess fandom and stupidity really do go hand in hand.
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In comment 13047877 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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a generational thing. Everyone's allowed their own take on it, within reason.
He's incredibly talented and also has room to grow up.
I'm pretty conservative when it comes to expressiveness. However, to "like him less" or not be able to root for him when he's had two of the best seasons a young WR has ever had is complete self righteousness. There's no two ways about it. If this were Freddie Mitchell or someone I'd understand it.
So you're a great guy if you act like a jerk but score lots of touchdowns. Got it.
I guess fandom and stupidity really do go hand in hand.
No one said he's a great guy, Jesus. This is a strawman argument. Just that it's incredibly self righteous to not be able to root for him like many say given that he's has the possibility of being our best player since LT. If you want choir boys go to church. The fuck do you care if he's a jerk?
I see a lot less "rationalizations and hypocrisy" among most fans here than I see, as Ronnie put it so well, a hesitancy to leap from a dislike of his show boating obnoxious on the field behavior to labeling him a jerk, an idiot, a dumbass, or a bad person.
From your side you see rationalizations and hypocrisy, from the other side people see your judgemental disapprobation, narrow mindedness, and sanctimonious attitude.
I choose to rationalize and be hypocritical in your eyes than assume your views, which are no less a leap of faith. A documented leap of faith it appears by dint of reports of OBJs off field behavior.
If you haven't heard it I suggest you listen to Cruz's interview from yesterday I think on Giants.com. He talks about the reversal of roles he and Odell have had from first Cruz encouraging and mentoring Odell through his first training camp and first quarter of his rookie season struggle to get past his hamstring injury, to the way Odell has encouraged and mentored Cruz through his struggle to come back from the patella tendon and calf surgeries.
By any account, Cruz portrays Odell as an excellent, caring, intelligent and passionate team mate.
Maybe that will alter your opinion of Beckham - at least slightly.