and absolutely cannot happen again, what has he done?
He's guilty of being 22 years old and likking dancing and dressing in expensive clothes.
Pre-Season, he made a very dirty play because he got over-emotional. He's also acted crazy on the sidelines a few times because of how pumped up he is.
I don't want to neuter him, but he needs to chill a little bit.
reach peak performance in part by generating a high dosage of adrenaline and related self-generated stimulants.
The fact that a 22-year-old kid doesn't know fully how to control that doesn't concern me in the slightest. If he had the same issues at, say 28, I would be disappointed. But not now
Here's the thing though. A lot of you guys say you love him but just want him to relax on the field or tone it down a bit.. but that's part of what makes him who he is. He's just wired that way. I know you can be an ultimate competitor without acting that way but Odell is Odell. You just have to realize that it's all part of what makes him tick and what drives him to want to be the greatest.
I always draw the line when a players transgressions are actual off-field crimes/problems. I lose all respect for guys who hit women, put children in danger, etc.
Beckham is a good kid. He's just super, super intense. But that's just who he is and who he always will be. Yes, he will mature a bit as he grows in certain ways.. but I don't expect him to ever be any less fierce on the field.
Look at Steve Smith Sr. Even in his old age, the man still plays like he has a huge chip on his shoulder. It's just who he is.
he invites headhunting, and he shies from it when the defender goes aggressive. In this particular game he decided to retaliate. It hasn't hurt us because the Giants have pretty much sucked donkey balls since he was drafted (not because he was drafted). If we ever do become competitive again, he'll likely hurt the team with this kind of behavior, and then it'll be a matter of whether his plusses outweigh the minusses.
I like having him on the team. he's a net plus. but it's pretty obvious he's got a showboat mentality which many, including myself, find obnoxious. It is not juvenile to say that.
The concept of Coughlin as a disciplinarian went out the window in 2007 when he basically let Plax do whatever he wanted. When Steve Smith said that he never saw Plax at practice I was floored.
That's shocking. Giving star players what they want? However I do remember TC benching Nicks for skipping practice. It was against the Cows in a week we really needed Nick's ass on the field.
Here's the thing though. A lot of you guys say you love him but just want him to relax on the field or tone it down a bit.. but that's part of what makes him who he is. He's just wired that way. I know you can be an ultimate competitor without acting that way but Odell is Odell. You just have to realize that it's all part of what makes him tick and what drives him to want to be the greatest.
I always draw the line when a players transgressions are actual off-field crimes/problems. I lose all respect for guys who hit women, put children in danger, etc.
Beckham is a good kid. He's just super, super intense. But that's just who he is and who he always will be. Yes, he will mature a bit as he grows in certain ways.. but I don't expect him to ever be any less fierce on the field.
Look at Steve Smith Sr. Even in his old age, the man still plays like he has a huge chip on his shoulder. It's just who he is.
Just opened the thread up to say the exact same thing. You can't have it both ways in some scenarios. Not everyone is Eli/Jeter. Not everyone is going to quietly be a star player. Maybe Odell does find that ability one day, but at what cost?
The Panther game was an outlier, IMO. There's simply no way, in my mind, he didn't learn from that experience. He's still going to showboat, he's still going to taunt on occasion, and I can definitely live with it if its within the realm of the rules. As long as he's not soured his place on this team, I have no issues with it.
The concept of Coughlin as a disciplinarian went out the window in 2007 when he basically let Plax do whatever he wanted. When Steve Smith said that he never saw Plax at practice I was floored.
That's shocking. Giving star players what they want? However I do remember TC benching Nicks for skipping practice. It was against the Cows in a week we really needed Nick's ass on the field.
It's one thing to give a star player some leeway, but it's something else to completely let him do what he wasn't at the expense of the team. It's easy to forget because of the gun incident, but things between Plax and the team had already completely broken down well before that point. Coughlin and Reese have a good share of the blame for that.
allowed to think of him as a douchebag, regardless of whether he abuses women and children? why is criminal behavior a prerequisite?
Gee, I don't know.. maybe because there's a major fucking difference between being a criminal and being demonstrative on a football field?
Football is entertainment at the end of the day. It's a sport. Some of you guys need to get over yourselves. Calling a 23 year old kid a "douchebag" because he plays the game with a passion or because there was an isolated incident where he lost his cool after being threatened is really ridiculous.
allowed to think of him as a douchebag, regardless of whether he abuses women and children? why is criminal behavior a prerequisite?
Its well within your right. But if that's what you think after watching him play, watching him with kids, and watching him be completely clean off the field, then I guess I can just as easily think you are a douche too.
is a fine line. I thought Brian Dawkins headhunting and intentionally trying to injure players made him a douche, but off the field, he was the NFL's Man of the Year at least once.
allowed to think of him as a douchebag, regardless of whether he abuses women and children? why is criminal behavior a prerequisite?
He could be a douchebag but he's our douchbag!
This is the crux of the whole thing. Like I said above if he were on the Eagle we'd be calling him a clown and an asshole. Instead we're calling him intense and a competitor. It's all about perspective.
He's a great player and hopefully he keeps his head screwed on straight.
Dawkins also built up a rep over the years of being a dirty player so it was kind of warranted even if he was a good guy off the field. Odell's incident as of now is isolated and not typical of his behavior. If he does something similar again, that will change pretty quickly, but.. hopefully we never need to have that discussion.
Beckham's incident against Carolina wasn't isolated
allowed to think of him as a douchebag, regardless of whether he abuses women and children? why is criminal behavior a prerequisite?
Eh...of course you can think of him as a douchebag based on your lifestyle norms and values. His playing style on the field and life style off the field aren't for everyone. It's all a matter of each person's preference.
However, beyond the Panthers game and a few occasions when he's gotten the other team riled up to target him (game against the Rams for example), OBJ has done far far more to help the team than to hurt the team. Matter of fact, he has hurt the team less with all of his antics (which is what most people bitch about) than many of our players have with their actual play on the field.
People make mountains of mole hills when it comes to the way OBJ plays (aside from the outlier event of the Panthers game). So since he hasn't really hurt the team with his on the field acts nor his off the field acts, people do get a bit annoyed when he gets portrayed as this problem child, which he isn't.
I'm pretty sure there aren't any other games where Beckham was launching himself helmet first into another player and swinging at him after every other play. It absolutely was out of character.
Why Norman targeted Beckham over Randle is pretty obvious. Rueben Randle wasn't beating anyone singlehandedly or winning football games. Beckham can. Norman targeted him because he wanted to throw him off his game and because he knew he couldn't cover him.
If being demonstrative is "showing up opponents" than Odell is about one of 50 other WR's in the NFL doing the same thing.
He's a target because no one can cover him one on one and it drives these defenders crazy.
He's been showing people up since his first game here. Norman wasn't the first guy to target him.
Norman is also a clown, but Beckham brings it on himself. There's a reason Norman wasn't going after Randle.
People target Beckham because he shows up opponents. Thus far no one has really made him pay for it, but if he keeps it up it's only a matter of time.
Some of the greatest players showboat and rub it in their opponents' faces. Not sure why this is such a problem with OBJ. I'm sure Cruz doing his salsa isn't really liked by many players either. It's not like he's gone out of his way to "Suh" an opponent with no provocation.
Everything we've heard about this kid is that he's a good kid with an enormous personality. He's a true team player, who lets his emotion drive him to greatness.
Not sure why this is a big deal and why so many people are afraid that he's going to cost this team anything in the future on the field. He'll give far far more to this team than ever take away from it.
I never said he was the only guy showing up opponents
There have been too many to count. Personally I don't think it's anything to be proud of but in what seems to be a league (and media/fan landscape) that seems to think it is something to celebrate I'd agree it's a non-issue from a team management standpoint.
I did not like his loss of self composure and how it reflected on him, the team, the coach and the Giants as an organization. He should have been pulled from the game after the second flare up, long before the attempted head ramming. Norman got inside his head and Odell lost self control and retaliated for whatever provoked him.
I do not appreciate Odell's off field style at all - same with other flamboyant players. I guess it is a cultural and age gap thing. But I don't care for it at all and have less respect for the person with that behavior. Simple truth. Some won't like that open honesty, but, there it is.
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
GO GIANTS.
What exactly has Beckham done off the field that you don't "appreciate"?
I'm pretty sure there aren't any other games where Beckham was launching himself helmet first into another player and swinging at him after every other play. It absolutely was out of character.
Beckham was fined after the Bills game in October. Yes it wasn't to the extent of what happened vs Carolina, but it was similar circumstances. He felt the Bills were targeting him and he retaliated against them by throwing punches. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Panthers noted that in the game tape.
I did not like his loss of self composure and how it reflected on him, the team, the coach and the Giants as an organization. He should have been pulled from the game after the second flare up, long before the attempted head ramming. Norman got inside his head and Odell lost self control and retaliated for whatever provoked him.
I do not appreciate Odell's off field style at all - same with other flamboyant players. I guess it is a cultural and age gap thing. But I don't care for it at all and have less respect for the person with that behavior. Simple truth. Some won't like that open honesty, but, there it is.
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
GO GIANTS.
What exactly has Beckham done off the field that you don't "appreciate"?
"Flamboyant arrogance", whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean. I'm waiting for Limericks Guy to talk about "the elephant in the room".
Wow, he did something in the Buffalo game that happens in nearly every football game. Crazy! What a lunatic. Someone needs to get him off a football field immediately.
Wow, he did something in the Buffalo game that happens in nearly every football game. Crazy! What a lunatic. Someone needs to get him off a football field immediately.
Good lord...
The NFL fines players for throwing punches in nearly ever football game? Crazy!
Wow, he did something in the Buffalo game that happens in nearly every football game. Crazy! What a lunatic. Someone needs to get him off a football field immediately.
Good lord...
The NFL fines players for throwing punches in nearly ever football game? Crazy!
Players are fined all the time. It's not even always reported or made light of. If you haven't noticed that this stuff goes on in most NFL games, you might want to get a nice pair of glasses.
This is hardly comparable to the game against Carolina. Launching yourself head first into someone's earhole is infinitely more dangerous than slapping a player wearing a helmet with your bare hand.
Beckham is a good kid. He's just super, super intense. But that's just who he is and who he always will be. Yes, he will mature a bit as he grows in certain ways.. but I don't expect him to ever be any less fierce on the field.
To me he's the Giants' equivalent to Draymond Green, only far more talented at his respective position. His on-field antics reflect poorly on him especially if you're not a Giants fan, but we all know he's not exactly Bill Romanowski.
You guys are defining fandom. That's kind of the point. The entire basis of being a fan is that you're biased towards the players who play for your team and against the players who play for rivals.
Did anyone think Andre Johnson was a "douchebag" after this incident? Or did you know what kind of dude Finnegan was and know that AJ finally had enough and lost his cool? I don't recall many people holding this against Johnson.
Norman was goading Beckham the same way. Sometimes players lose their composure.
I don't think being a fan of a team is the same thing as applying different standards to the team you're rooting for. At least I don't think that's being a smart or even honest fan.
As an example, remember when we signed Lavar Arrington? While he was with the Redskins he was (correctly) criticized as being an undisciplined player that was generally overrated due to his draft status. But then we signed him and all of a sudden the perspective of most of the people changed; apparently he became a good player once he was a Giant.
Well that's bullshit. It's one thing to root for a team and its players to do well, and quite another to be hold double standards.
There's nothing wrong with rooting for Beckham while acknowledging the possibility that he might be an asshole. Who cares as long as he keeps playing well?
But I am absolutely certain that there isn't a person here that would call him a "good kid" if he played for any other team.
He is 22 years old. He works hard, he is smart, stays out of trouble and really seems to enjoy every bit of his life. Kid is always smiling and having clean fun. No strip clubs, passing out pool side in Vegas or drama.
I feel he is pretty grounded and that is a tribute to the way he was raised.
The fight was a double edge sword for me. He took it to Norman and yes it cost the team and his rep a lot but it also showed how intense he is and isn't going to back down.
Terps.. you're expecting complete objectivity in a situation where it purposely doesn't exist. Of course people changed their tune on Arrington when he came to NY. Fans are generally hopeful. When a player comes here from another team, people always want to believe that the player will be better here or will change for the better. It all comes with the territory.
I hate DeSean Jackson because I have memories of him torching the Giants in crucial spots and because he's now played for 2 of our 3 biggest rivals. Not because he gets up after a tackle sometimes and pushes the guy who tackled him or takes a quick swing at him and not because he celebrates when he scores. I would feel the same way about Beckham if the tables were turned. I would hate him because the Giants couldn't stop him and because he played for a rival. Not because he was demonstrative on the field after a big play or because he scuffled with someone after a play. That shit is all over the league. You literally see it in every game. Guys celebrate, guys scuffle. It's football.
I don't know much about Jackson off the field and don't really care to but I do know that Beckham is a very family oriented guy who is very close with his parents, does good things for kids in his free time and is harmless. I don't think having the type of day he had against the Panthers makes him a "bad kid".. I think by all accounts, he's a 23 year old who is growing up and enjoying his life. He doesn't do anything wrong off the field or anything that is atypical of a kid his age. The disdain from some of these posters is just so ridiculous to me. Give me a break with the holier than thou bullshit. As if no one here ever lost their temper in their early 20's or did something they regret. Stop.
But Odell has had a couple of extra-physical late weird type of plays. He plays after the whistle, sometimes it seems like he doesn't even hear the whistle because he's always running down the field even after being brought down.
Defenses haven't figured out how to stop him. "Toughness and Physicality" are the closest things to question marks as there is in Odell's game. It hasn't always been like the Rams game, but defenses play extra dirty against Odell in general. It's obvious imo. Odell and the Giants as a team probably know this because they see it on tape.
Odell seems to have a "if ur gonna do it to me, I'm gonna repay the favor" type of mindset. This was the case before the Norman thing imo. This was the main thing Cromartie called Odell out on. It was a known thing that Odell gets pissed off if ur extra physical with him, Norman just took it to another level because he saw after 1 series he couldn't keep up with Odell in a fair matchup.
Odell's standing up for himself and I get that. But the Norman thing is absolutely not the only dirty thing he's done in his career so far, even if u want to excuse it as him repaying guys for being dirty on him.
We really really really need to stop comparing this to Andres beat down of Finnegan. Andre embarrassed Finnegan, Odell embarrassed himself for what he did to Norman. Odell let a clearly inferior player in Norman get in his head. He's too good to let anyone get in his head
It is possible to objectively say "You know, this guy Beckham is kind of a dick" and still root for him to continue to play well. These guys aren't our friends.
The bigger question may be why fans need to maintain the illusion that they root for nice people on their sports teams. Look around your work place: you gonna tell me that out of 53 people in your office or whatever there aren't a few gaping assholes?
And I guess here is where my subjectivity comes in. I think someone that touchdown dances like the ones Beckham does are lame, and are generally performed by people like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, and Desean Jackson. I consider those people to be assholes, and I'm probably joined by 95% of Giants fans in that feeling.
But that same 95% doesn't apply the same standard to one of our players. I have a tough time with that.
RE: I bet some of you had serious character concerns
And what Beckham does off the field is of no concern to me. I don't follow him on social media and I don't know why anyone would want to. His personal life is none of my business. I'm talking strictly on the field.
It is possible to objectively say "You know, this guy Beckham is kind of a dick" and still root for him to continue to play well. These guys aren't our friends.
The bigger question may be why fans need to maintain the illusion that they root for nice people on their sports teams. Look around your work place: you gonna tell me that out of 53 people in your office or whatever there aren't a few gaping assholes?
And I guess here is where my subjectivity comes in. I think someone that touchdown dances like the ones Beckham does are lame, and are generally performed by people like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, and Desean Jackson. I consider those people to be assholes, and I'm probably joined by 95% of Giants fans in that feeling.
But that same 95% doesn't apply the same standard to one of our players. I have a tough time with that.
It's the freaking NFL.. it's a super violent sport. Why do I need the players I root for to be "nice" on the football field? Not everyone is Eli Manning and not everyone should be.
But that's not the point. The point is that by all accounts, he's a good dude off the field and that's why I say he's a good kid. If he's not getting in trouble off the field or causing any issues, why would I call him a bad guy or say he's a douchebag? I'd say the same about a player on a rival team. If Jordan Matthews was super demonstrative and fiery on the field but wasn't doing anything wrong off of it I would only dislike him from the standpoint of him being an Eagle.
He plays with a flair and gets emotionally supercharged sometimes. So what. It's part of what makes him great.
I also loved Owens when he was in SF.. the only thing I ever hated about him was that he was an Eagle and a Cowboy. So I guess that's where we differ. I thought he was one of the most dominant WR's I've ever seen and found him entertaining. I just hated when his ability came at our expense. He's a HoF player and one of the best ever. Does it really matter that he celebrated or danced and enjoyed the game he played?
In comment 13047193 Go Terps said:
[quote}There's nothing wrong with rooting for Beckham while acknowledging the possibility that he might be an asshole. Who cares as long as he keeps playing well?
But I am absolutely certain that there isn't a person here that would call him a "good kid" if he played for any other team. [/quote]
And how do you know he's an asshole and not a good kid? Have you got insider information on this that go counter to what many others have stated about him as a person?
And yes, you are right we judge people on the other teams terribly compare to people on our own team. Biggest example is Tony Romo. Do you know how many people on BBI think that Tony Romo is an asshole because he plays for the Cowboys and wears his hat backward with a shit eating grin? Plenty. However, from everything that I've ever read, Tony Romo is one of the nicest and most sincere people in the league.
It is possible to objectively say "You know, this guy Beckham is kind of a dick" and still root for him to continue to play well. These guys aren't our friends.
The bigger question may be why fans need to maintain the illusion that they root for nice people on their sports teams. Look around your work place: you gonna tell me that out of 53 people in your office or whatever there aren't a few gaping assholes?
And I guess here is where my subjectivity comes in. I think someone that touchdown dances like the ones Beckham does are lame, and are generally performed by people like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, and Desean Jackson. I consider those people to be assholes, and I'm probably joined by 95% of Giants fans in that feeling.
But that same 95% doesn't apply the same standard to one of our players. I have a tough time with that.
People hate those guys because they played for rivals
I doubt you would get anywhere close to a majority of people hating Ocho Cinco
He's guilty of being 22 years old and likking dancing and dressing in expensive clothes.
Pre-Season, he made a very dirty play because he got over-emotional. He's also acted crazy on the sidelines a few times because of how pumped up he is.
I don't want to neuter him, but he needs to chill a little bit.
The fact that a 22-year-old kid doesn't know fully how to control that doesn't concern me in the slightest. If he had the same issues at, say 28, I would be disappointed. But not now
I love his production and I hope he can mature and move past those events. But the Carolina game definitely lowered my opinion of him.
I always draw the line when a players transgressions are actual off-field crimes/problems. I lose all respect for guys who hit women, put children in danger, etc.
Beckham is a good kid. He's just super, super intense. But that's just who he is and who he always will be. Yes, he will mature a bit as he grows in certain ways.. but I don't expect him to ever be any less fierce on the field.
Look at Steve Smith Sr. Even in his old age, the man still plays like he has a huge chip on his shoulder. It's just who he is.
he invites headhunting, and he shies from it when the defender goes aggressive. In this particular game he decided to retaliate. It hasn't hurt us because the Giants have pretty much sucked donkey balls since he was drafted (not because he was drafted). If we ever do become competitive again, he'll likely hurt the team with this kind of behavior, and then it'll be a matter of whether his plusses outweigh the minusses.
I like having him on the team. he's a net plus. but it's pretty obvious he's got a showboat mentality which many, including myself, find obnoxious. It is not juvenile to say that.
That's shocking. Giving star players what they want? However I do remember TC benching Nicks for skipping practice. It was against the Cows in a week we really needed Nick's ass on the field.
I always draw the line when a players transgressions are actual off-field crimes/problems. I lose all respect for guys who hit women, put children in danger, etc.
Beckham is a good kid. He's just super, super intense. But that's just who he is and who he always will be. Yes, he will mature a bit as he grows in certain ways.. but I don't expect him to ever be any less fierce on the field.
Look at Steve Smith Sr. Even in his old age, the man still plays like he has a huge chip on his shoulder. It's just who he is.
Just opened the thread up to say the exact same thing. You can't have it both ways in some scenarios. Not everyone is Eli/Jeter. Not everyone is going to quietly be a star player. Maybe Odell does find that ability one day, but at what cost?
The Panther game was an outlier, IMO. There's simply no way, in my mind, he didn't learn from that experience. He's still going to showboat, he's still going to taunt on occasion, and I can definitely live with it if its within the realm of the rules. As long as he's not soured his place on this team, I have no issues with it.
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The concept of Coughlin as a disciplinarian went out the window in 2007 when he basically let Plax do whatever he wanted. When Steve Smith said that he never saw Plax at practice I was floored.
That's shocking. Giving star players what they want? However I do remember TC benching Nicks for skipping practice. It was against the Cows in a week we really needed Nick's ass on the field.
It's one thing to give a star player some leeway, but it's something else to completely let him do what he wasn't at the expense of the team. It's easy to forget because of the gun incident, but things between Plax and the team had already completely broken down well before that point. Coughlin and Reese have a good share of the blame for that.
He could be a douchebag but he's our douchbag!
Gee, I don't know.. maybe because there's a major fucking difference between being a criminal and being demonstrative on a football field?
Football is entertainment at the end of the day. It's a sport. Some of you guys need to get over yourselves. Calling a 23 year old kid a "douchebag" because he plays the game with a passion or because there was an isolated incident where he lost his cool after being threatened is really ridiculous.
Its well within your right. But if that's what you think after watching him play, watching him with kids, and watching him be completely clean off the field, then I guess I can just as easily think you are a douche too.
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allowed to think of him as a douchebag, regardless of whether he abuses women and children? why is criminal behavior a prerequisite?
He could be a douchebag but he's our douchbag!
This is the crux of the whole thing. Like I said above if he were on the Eagle we'd be calling him a clown and an asshole. Instead we're calling him intense and a competitor. It's all about perspective.
He's a great player and hopefully he keeps his head screwed on straight.
Norman is also a clown, but Beckham brings it on himself. There's a reason Norman wasn't going after Randle.
People target Beckham because he shows up opponents. Thus far no one has really made him pay for it, but if he keeps it up it's only a matter of time.
Eh...of course you can think of him as a douchebag based on your lifestyle norms and values. His playing style on the field and life style off the field aren't for everyone. It's all a matter of each person's preference.
However, beyond the Panthers game and a few occasions when he's gotten the other team riled up to target him (game against the Rams for example), OBJ has done far far more to help the team than to hurt the team. Matter of fact, he has hurt the team less with all of his antics (which is what most people bitch about) than many of our players have with their actual play on the field.
People make mountains of mole hills when it comes to the way OBJ plays (aside from the outlier event of the Panthers game). So since he hasn't really hurt the team with his on the field acts nor his off the field acts, people do get a bit annoyed when he gets portrayed as this problem child, which he isn't.
I'm pretty sure there aren't any other games where Beckham was launching himself helmet first into another player and swinging at him after every other play. It absolutely was out of character.
Why Norman targeted Beckham over Randle is pretty obvious. Rueben Randle wasn't beating anyone singlehandedly or winning football games. Beckham can. Norman targeted him because he wanted to throw him off his game and because he knew he couldn't cover him.
If being demonstrative is "showing up opponents" than Odell is about one of 50 other WR's in the NFL doing the same thing.
He's a target because no one can cover him one on one and it drives these defenders crazy.
Norman is also a clown, but Beckham brings it on himself. There's a reason Norman wasn't going after Randle.
People target Beckham because he shows up opponents. Thus far no one has really made him pay for it, but if he keeps it up it's only a matter of time.
Some of the greatest players showboat and rub it in their opponents' faces. Not sure why this is such a problem with OBJ. I'm sure Cruz doing his salsa isn't really liked by many players either. It's not like he's gone out of his way to "Suh" an opponent with no provocation.
Everything we've heard about this kid is that he's a good kid with an enormous personality. He's a true team player, who lets his emotion drive him to greatness.
Not sure why this is a big deal and why so many people are afraid that he's going to cost this team anything in the future on the field. He'll give far far more to this team than ever take away from it.
I do not appreciate Odell's off field style at all - same with other flamboyant players. I guess it is a cultural and age gap thing. But I don't care for it at all and have less respect for the person with that behavior. Simple truth. Some won't like that open honesty, but, there it is.
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
GO GIANTS.
What exactly has Beckham done off the field that you don't "appreciate"?
I'm pretty sure there aren't any other games where Beckham was launching himself helmet first into another player and swinging at him after every other play. It absolutely was out of character.
Beckham was fined after the Bills game in October. Yes it wasn't to the extent of what happened vs Carolina, but it was similar circumstances. He felt the Bills were targeting him and he retaliated against them by throwing punches. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Panthers noted that in the game tape.
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I did not like his loss of self composure and how it reflected on him, the team, the coach and the Giants as an organization. He should have been pulled from the game after the second flare up, long before the attempted head ramming. Norman got inside his head and Odell lost self control and retaliated for whatever provoked him.
I do not appreciate Odell's off field style at all - same with other flamboyant players. I guess it is a cultural and age gap thing. But I don't care for it at all and have less respect for the person with that behavior. Simple truth. Some won't like that open honesty, but, there it is.
I will cheer for him on the field and appreciate his physical talents. But his flamboyant arrogance I can do without.
GO GIANTS.
What exactly has Beckham done off the field that you don't "appreciate"?
"Flamboyant arrogance", whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean. I'm waiting for Limericks Guy to talk about "the elephant in the room".
Good lord...
Good lord...
The NFL fines players for throwing punches in nearly ever football game? Crazy!
I would rather player with fire than one who doesn't give a shit.
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Wow, he did something in the Buffalo game that happens in nearly every football game. Crazy! What a lunatic. Someone needs to get him off a football field immediately.
Good lord...
The NFL fines players for throwing punches in nearly ever football game? Crazy!
Players are fined all the time. It's not even always reported or made light of. If you haven't noticed that this stuff goes on in most NFL games, you might want to get a nice pair of glasses.
This is hardly comparable to the game against Carolina. Launching yourself head first into someone's earhole is infinitely more dangerous than slapping a player wearing a helmet with your bare hand.
Beckham is a good kid. He's just super, super intense. But that's just who he is and who he always will be. Yes, he will mature a bit as he grows in certain ways.. but I don't expect him to ever be any less fierce on the field.
To me he's the Giants' equivalent to Draymond Green, only far more talented at his respective position. His on-field antics reflect poorly on him especially if you're not a Giants fan, but we all know he's not exactly Bill Romanowski.
I'm far less annoyed by Beckham than I am by double standards and hypocrisy by fans.
Guess how long it took me to find this?
Norman was goading Beckham the same way. Sometimes players lose their composure.
As an example, remember when we signed Lavar Arrington? While he was with the Redskins he was (correctly) criticized as being an undisciplined player that was generally overrated due to his draft status. But then we signed him and all of a sudden the perspective of most of the people changed; apparently he became a good player once he was a Giant.
Well that's bullshit. It's one thing to root for a team and its players to do well, and quite another to be hold double standards.
There's nothing wrong with rooting for Beckham while acknowledging the possibility that he might be an asshole. Who cares as long as he keeps playing well?
But I am absolutely certain that there isn't a person here that would call him a "good kid" if he played for any other team.
And what has he done for me...specifically me...to think he isn't a good kid?
He's done nothing to impact my life at all other than make Giants games a little more enjoyable.
I think some of you guys just love to complain about Giant players not living up to your standards...
I feel he is pretty grounded and that is a tribute to the way he was raised.
The fight was a double edge sword for me. He took it to Norman and yes it cost the team and his rep a lot but it also showed how intense he is and isn't going to back down.
I hate DeSean Jackson because I have memories of him torching the Giants in crucial spots and because he's now played for 2 of our 3 biggest rivals. Not because he gets up after a tackle sometimes and pushes the guy who tackled him or takes a quick swing at him and not because he celebrates when he scores. I would feel the same way about Beckham if the tables were turned. I would hate him because the Giants couldn't stop him and because he played for a rival. Not because he was demonstrative on the field after a big play or because he scuffled with someone after a play. That shit is all over the league. You literally see it in every game. Guys celebrate, guys scuffle. It's football.
I don't know much about Jackson off the field and don't really care to but I do know that Beckham is a very family oriented guy who is very close with his parents, does good things for kids in his free time and is harmless. I don't think having the type of day he had against the Panthers makes him a "bad kid".. I think by all accounts, he's a 23 year old who is growing up and enjoying his life. He doesn't do anything wrong off the field or anything that is atypical of a kid his age. The disdain from some of these posters is just so ridiculous to me. Give me a break with the holier than thou bullshit. As if no one here ever lost their temper in their early 20's or did something they regret. Stop.
Defenses haven't figured out how to stop him. "Toughness and Physicality" are the closest things to question marks as there is in Odell's game. It hasn't always been like the Rams game, but defenses play extra dirty against Odell in general. It's obvious imo. Odell and the Giants as a team probably know this because they see it on tape.
Odell seems to have a "if ur gonna do it to me, I'm gonna repay the favor" type of mindset. This was the case before the Norman thing imo. This was the main thing Cromartie called Odell out on. It was a known thing that Odell gets pissed off if ur extra physical with him, Norman just took it to another level because he saw after 1 series he couldn't keep up with Odell in a fair matchup.
Odell's standing up for himself and I get that. But the Norman thing is absolutely not the only dirty thing he's done in his career so far, even if u want to excuse it as him repaying guys for being dirty on him.
We really really really need to stop comparing this to Andres beat down of Finnegan. Andre embarrassed Finnegan, Odell embarrassed himself for what he did to Norman. Odell let a clearly inferior player in Norman get in his head. He's too good to let anyone get in his head
It is possible to objectively say "You know, this guy Beckham is kind of a dick" and still root for him to continue to play well. These guys aren't our friends.
The bigger question may be why fans need to maintain the illusion that they root for nice people on their sports teams. Look around your work place: you gonna tell me that out of 53 people in your office or whatever there aren't a few gaping assholes?
And I guess here is where my subjectivity comes in. I think someone that touchdown dances like the ones Beckham does are lame, and are generally performed by people like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, and Desean Jackson. I consider those people to be assholes, and I'm probably joined by 95% of Giants fans in that feeling.
But that same 95% doesn't apply the same standard to one of our players. I have a tough time with that.
This reminds me of the big furfuffle several years ago with Colin Kaeparnik and the post game presser.
I'm far less annoyed by Beckham than I am by double standards and hypocrisy by fans.
It's called fandom. And by all account, fandom is based around double standards and hypocrisy.
It is possible to objectively say "You know, this guy Beckham is kind of a dick" and still root for him to continue to play well. These guys aren't our friends.
The bigger question may be why fans need to maintain the illusion that they root for nice people on their sports teams. Look around your work place: you gonna tell me that out of 53 people in your office or whatever there aren't a few gaping assholes?
And I guess here is where my subjectivity comes in. I think someone that touchdown dances like the ones Beckham does are lame, and are generally performed by people like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, and Desean Jackson. I consider those people to be assholes, and I'm probably joined by 95% of Giants fans in that feeling.
But that same 95% doesn't apply the same standard to one of our players. I have a tough time with that.
It's the freaking NFL.. it's a super violent sport. Why do I need the players I root for to be "nice" on the football field? Not everyone is Eli Manning and not everyone should be.
But that's not the point. The point is that by all accounts, he's a good dude off the field and that's why I say he's a good kid. If he's not getting in trouble off the field or causing any issues, why would I call him a bad guy or say he's a douchebag? I'd say the same about a player on a rival team. If Jordan Matthews was super demonstrative and fiery on the field but wasn't doing anything wrong off of it I would only dislike him from the standpoint of him being an Eagle.
He plays with a flair and gets emotionally supercharged sometimes. So what. It's part of what makes him great.
I also loved Owens when he was in SF.. the only thing I ever hated about him was that he was an Eagle and a Cowboy. So I guess that's where we differ. I thought he was one of the most dominant WR's I've ever seen and found him entertaining. I just hated when his ability came at our expense. He's a HoF player and one of the best ever. Does it really matter that he celebrated or danced and enjoyed the game he played?
[quote}There's nothing wrong with rooting for Beckham while acknowledging the possibility that he might be an asshole. Who cares as long as he keeps playing well?
But I am absolutely certain that there isn't a person here that would call him a "good kid" if he played for any other team. [/quote]
And how do you know he's an asshole and not a good kid? Have you got insider information on this that go counter to what many others have stated about him as a person?
And yes, you are right we judge people on the other teams terribly compare to people on our own team. Biggest example is Tony Romo. Do you know how many people on BBI think that Tony Romo is an asshole because he plays for the Cowboys and wears his hat backward with a shit eating grin? Plenty. However, from everything that I've ever read, Tony Romo is one of the nicest and most sincere people in the league.
But that's called fandom.
It is possible to objectively say "You know, this guy Beckham is kind of a dick" and still root for him to continue to play well. These guys aren't our friends.
The bigger question may be why fans need to maintain the illusion that they root for nice people on their sports teams. Look around your work place: you gonna tell me that out of 53 people in your office or whatever there aren't a few gaping assholes?
And I guess here is where my subjectivity comes in. I think someone that touchdown dances like the ones Beckham does are lame, and are generally performed by people like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, and Desean Jackson. I consider those people to be assholes, and I'm probably joined by 95% of Giants fans in that feeling.
But that same 95% doesn't apply the same standard to one of our players. I have a tough time with that.
People hate those guys because they played for rivals
I doubt you would get anywhere close to a majority of people hating Ocho Cinco