I don't really care about the type of people they are off the field as long as they're not criminals (and I'm glad the Giants generally have a high bar when it comes to that stuff).
I enjoy watching Odell. I don't know if he's a good person or not. But I'd still root for him if he threw sticks at people in Central Park like in Big Daddy.
Did anyone think Andre Johnson was a "douchebag" after this incident? Or did you know what kind of dude Finnegan was and know that AJ finally had enough and lost his cool? I don't recall many people holding this against Johnson.
Norman was goading Beckham the same way. Sometimes players lose their composure.
Well I never said Beckham was a "douchebag", but the OPs question was whether I thought less of him. But yes, I thought less of Andre Johnson after that incident.
I don't really care about the type of people they are off the field as long as they're not criminals (and I'm glad the Giants generally have a high bar when it comes to that stuff).
I enjoy watching Odell. I don't know if he's a good person or not. But I'd still root for him if he threw sticks at people in Central Park like in Big Daddy.
People who know him personally have attested to Beckham being a great kid. And don't doubt my words.
The only proof I have that Beckham is an asshole is that he shows up his opponents and plays with no class. That's really just personal preference. I would consider such a person an asshole. Others may not.
I don't think Romo is an asshole because he plays for a rival. That's ridiculous. It just makes him someone I want to see lose.
The only proof I have that Beckham is an asshole is that he shows up his opponents and plays with no class. That's really just personal preference. I would consider such a person an asshole. Others may not.
I don't think Romo is an asshole because he plays for a rival. That's ridiculous. It just makes him someone I want to see lose.
Maybe not you...but you have to admit that Tony Romo is pretty much despised as a person (beyond a football player) on BBI with such flimsy reasons but that's fandom.
I think Odell is savvy enough that he is creating brand
His losing control and possibly costing the Giants a possible playoff chance was inexcusable and hopefully he learned from it and nothing similar will ever happen again.
He needs to keep "Brand Odell" and as far away from the field as possible.
I'm not the one who needs him to be nice. You're the one admitting you hold him to a double standard.
So he's an asshole. So what? I don't feel the need to make a case otherwise and I'm certainly not calling for the Giants to get rid of him because of it.
I don't give a shit what people that I don't know say about how he is off the field. Keep catching touchdowns and don't get suspended.
I'm fine rooting for an asshole. The guy is an incredible football player. Just don't tell me what a nice guy he is when the image he puts out to the world on Sunday is that of a huge asshole. I don't need the reassurance that he is something other than what he is showing me.
I don't really care about the type of people they are off the field as long as they're not criminals (and I'm glad the Giants generally have a high bar when it comes to that stuff).
I enjoy watching Odell. I don't know if he's a good person or not. But I'd still root for him if he threw sticks at people in Central Park like in Big Daddy.
People who know him personally have attested to Beckham being a great kid. And don't doubt my words.
I find that believable. He can be obnoxious on the field but be great off it.
The only proof I have that Beckham is an asshole is that he shows up his opponents and plays with no class. That's really just personal preference. I would consider such a person an asshole. Others may not.
I don't think Romo is an asshole because he plays for a rival. That's ridiculous. It just makes him someone I want to see lose.
Maybe not you...but you have to admit that Tony Romo is pretty much despised as a person (beyond a football player) on BBI with such flimsy reasons but that's fandom.
Yeah, and those people are idiots.
Was I supposed to hate Darrell Green because he played for Washington?
I don't think that's fandom. I think it's stupidity.
Beckham showed immaturity. And it has continued with GQ. This will HURT him to one degree or another, maybe even with marketing himself.
I take into account the fact that he is young, he has a spotlight on him and he is also a fierce competitor. But calling your team out when they are down 35-7 vs Carolina and saying they lost interest by talking about "what are we doing after the game?" was a bad idea and raised eyebrows I'm sure.
If I am Odell, I keep my mouth shut and just play this year. Period end of story.
Who is remembered more fondly, Jerry Rice or Randy Moss?
Yes I believe in the responsibility of a Pro Athlete, a role model, etc to be better than that. We expect it from our military, our policemen/policewomen, etc and they don't have the fame or the money that pro athletes do.
It may just be his kryptonite. Norman can't compete with him physically so he got in his head. It's sad that is part of the game but it is. It could very well be the one thing that stops him from being the best ever. Can OBJ mature out of it?
All that being said there is no reason he can't fix this. It can very easily be looked back on as immaturity. OBJ vs Norman twice a year will be interesting to watch and will hopefully do great things for both of their career. If OBJ can fix that part of his game, which I believe is his biggest hurdle, he could be the best ever and Norman would end up an afterthought.
I respected Rice, but felt like Moss was a more physically gifted player.
Rather face Rice than Moss in their primes.
Point?
Sorry I'm late responding. I totally agree with your opinion on Rice and Moss. That is exactly my point and I guess I didn't make it clear. Who is most commonly regarded as the best WR ever? Hell some would claim Rice to be one of the best players ever. Yet Moss, in my opinion and yours, had more talent. So what's the difference between the two?
If you had to guess right now, outside of an injury, what would be the one thing that could hold Beckham back from being the best ever? It's not talent as his first 2 years have been incredible. I suppose he could retire too early but I doubt that. OBJ needs to decide if he wants to be the greatest ever and supplant Jerry Rice or be the next Terrel Owens, Ocho Cinco, or at best Randy Moss.
I would take one Jerry Rice over two of Randy Moss
Moss had near super human qualities, but he couldn't be counted on to always deliver a good effort. I've brought this up before; I saw Moss play for the 49ers in person at Super Bowl 47. Obviously he was well past his prime, but I was hoping that in his first Super Bowl (and in what turned out to be the last game of his career) he would dig deep. Instead he gave an absolutely pathetic effort. Didn't block, didn't come back to the QB on broken plays, didn't go for the ball over the middle that resulted in the Ed Reed pick. Just a complete dog.
Contrast that with Anquan Boldin in that same game. Boldin was three years younger than Moss but with much more wear and tear, and a fraction of the talent. Boldin played that game like his life depended on it. A man possessed.
Or contrast it with Jerry Rice himself. At age 40 he had 92 catches for the Raiders, and in the Super Bowl played a huge game against a brutal Tampa defense.
Talent is only part of it. Gotta have heart and brains.
Carolina game and IMHO the ref's for some reason were allowing Norman to get away with murder wrt Odell. There were many things that they didn't and couldn't show on TV that the Ref's in one instance I know were looking right at. Norman and the rest of the Carolina Secondary would always seem to do it when they had Beckham isolated buy their bench. I wasn't pleased at all that Odell fell for that BS but I completely understood why.
Recently I noticed that they have first been playing up Beckham then Norman which I assume is their trying to set up some kind of rivalry; IMHO they better review the tapes that I'm sure they have lying around in some closet and see if Norman is really the type of guy that the league wants to hang its hat on.
I'm not the one who needs him to be nice. You're the one admitting you hold him to a double standard.
So he's an asshole. So what? I don't feel the need to make a case otherwise and I'm certainly not calling for the Giants to get rid of him because of it.
I don't give a shit what people that I don't know say about how he is off the field. Keep catching touchdowns and don't get suspended.
I'm fine rooting for an asshole. The guy is an incredible football player. Just don't tell me what a nice guy he is when the image he puts out to the world on Sunday is that of a huge asshole. I don't need the reassurance that he is something other than what he is showing me.
The disagreement here is that you're calling a guy an asshole because of the way he plays football. I've seen and read enough about what he does off the field to hold what I feel is an informed enough opinion that he is not at all an "asshole". Just because he plays with a flair and is a mega intense dude or celebrates after a big play doesn't make him an asshole in my book. Is he Barry Sanders? No, and he doesn't need to be. He's Odell Beckham. I think he acted like a shitty dude on 12/20/15. I also think that was an outlier.
You've already admitted that you know nothing about what he does off the field and don't care to and that's fine. I don't exactly follow his off field life daily but I do know enough to say that he's not a bad kid by any means.
You know who's an asshole? Greg Hardy is an asshole. Ray Rice is an asshole. Guys like that are who I have a problem with. Not guys who go all out on the field and don't do anything wrong off of it.
Like I said. If Beckham was on another team, I'd say the same things I say about someone like DeSean Jackson. I hate the guy, think he's annoying to play against and want to see him get leveled every time he has the football. I'd still respect the talent (even though Beckham is quite a bit better than Jackson). It's just being a fan. So, no.. all of this "if Beckham were an Eagle..." and complaining about a double standard is really just a waste of time.
That's reserved for woman beaters, drug abusers, and drunk drivers.
Let's try to stay in the realm of the reasonable. He likes to dance after touchdowns. That goes back to Billy White Shoes Johnson like half a century ago.
What is it that he does that you think is showing people up? The celebrating? There's just so much of that in this league now that I can't even get bugged about it. The only time celebrating really, really bothers me is when a guy like DaMontre Moore would celebrate a sack in a game we were losing by 3 scores. Or when Santonio Holmes used to catch a 4 yard pass for a 1st down and do the point and drop the ball thing. Shit like that is silly but after a big play or a TD none of it really annoys me.
I also don't think Odell is as hated as you might think. I'm sure guys in this league want to lay him out but there are also times during most games where a defender will take him down and he'll get up and give them a quick pat on the helmet and say "hey, nice play". I think there's still a degree of respect. I'd rather more of that and less of the celebrating but it's just who he is.. I don't think any less of him for it.
Is Dikembe Mutombo an asshole for doing the finger wag?
and that the stuff that's said between them is probably a lot worse than someone wagging a finger, dancing, or high-stepping, right? Your posts reeks of sanctimonious paternalism.
these athletes have thick enough skin not to get hot and bothered about someone celebrating. Don't like Mutombo finger wagging after a block? Dunk on his ass. Don't like Odell dancing? Keep him out of the endzone.
Well there are always going to be plenty of ways to justify acting like an ass. There seem to have been hundreds and thousands of athletes that somehow managed to be motivated without acting like morons.
But there's no doubt a lot of people seem to think it's pretty cool. You've got me there.
Difference opinions is good. Some people will call people assholes for their actions on the field irrespective of their life off of it. Some think that's a bit far. Ah well...not even worth arguing about.
Through your lens, having a bit of fun on the field
I will say that no matter how nice you are in real life, how you treat people on BBI truly makes you an asshole in life. And for that reason, I think we can all agree that Brett is an asshole.
RE: Through your lens, having a bit of fun on the field
equates to acting like an ass. Any form of expression is acting like an ass.
You don't seem to be able to distinguish between celebrating an accomplishment and disrespecting an opponent.
And if Beckham wants to keep showing people up, fine. I'm not calling for him to be benched or traded. He doesn't owe me anything. If he wants to, in my opinion, look like a god damn fool every time he scores a TD that's his prerogative. And it's my prerogative to think he's an asshole.
I don't care. I just take it with a huge mountain of salt when anyone tells me he's a good mood when they're saying it basically just because of the jersey he wears.
No...I actually have family who has personal knowledge of the kind of guy he is...and they have nothing but good thing to say about him. It has nothing to do with the color of his jersey at this point in the discussion.
And the family is a cousin (well, my brother's in-laws), who works for the Giants.
I don't make character assertions about a guy based off of what
You don't? You'd be in a vast minority then, because everyone on this board has been calling guys like Terrell Owens and Desean Jackson (whose behavior I find identical to Beckham's) assholes and worse for years.
No...I actually have family who has personal knowledge of the kind of guy he is...and they have nothing but good thing to say about him. It has nothing to do with the color of his jersey at this point in the discussion.
And the family is a cousin (well, my brother's in-laws), who works for the Giants.
That's great. And he's still a guy that acts like a jerk on the field.
There is nothing Odell has done that is even in the same universe
as TO's antics. If you think the sharpie and kneeling down on the star are in the same ballpark, I guess even spiking the football is crossing the line for you. Even with that level of theatrics, I don't find TO to be an ass for those reasons. I don't recall Odell playing a major role in destroying locker rooms.
Desean I could see. Except Odell doesn't pretend to be a crip, and doesn't owe his agent large sums of money.
When he came into the league, that was the main hole in his scouting report. Kinda small/average and the poor bench press was noteworthy.
In the NFL, it's literally the only question left.
The whole Norman saga showed he still has a ? Next to toughness. And this isn't just about that. It's about him acting out at times against overly physical/dirty opponents in the past. The Buffalo game wasn't just that cheap shot, he was acting funny that entire game. Same with the Panthers game, it wasn't just that dirty missile job it was the entire game. Hes targeted DBs in other games too, the Jax preseason game when he nailed Sergio Brown with a dirty shot. And Malcol Butlers physical play really bothered Odell in that Pats game.
Odell had a 1450/13 season in 15 games. But he dropped like 3 TDs including a couple of very important ones. He can be soo good. He just needs to chill out a bit imo, he can still be highly competitive amd retain that fire.
I enjoy watching Odell. I don't know if he's a good person or not. But I'd still root for him if he threw sticks at people in Central Park like in Big Daddy.
Norman was goading Beckham the same way. Sometimes players lose their composure.
Well I never said Beckham was a "douchebag", but the OPs question was whether I thought less of him. But yes, I thought less of Andre Johnson after that incident.
I enjoy watching Odell. I don't know if he's a good person or not. But I'd still root for him if he threw sticks at people in Central Park like in Big Daddy.
People who know him personally have attested to Beckham being a great kid. And don't doubt my words.
I don't think Romo is an asshole because he plays for a rival. That's ridiculous. It just makes him someone I want to see lose.
I don't think Romo is an asshole because he plays for a rival. That's ridiculous. It just makes him someone I want to see lose.
Maybe not you...but you have to admit that Tony Romo is pretty much despised as a person (beyond a football player) on BBI with such flimsy reasons but that's fandom.
His losing control and possibly costing the Giants a possible playoff chance was inexcusable and hopefully he learned from it and nothing similar will ever happen again.
He needs to keep "Brand Odell" and as far away from the field as possible.
What a time to be alive!
So he's an asshole. So what? I don't feel the need to make a case otherwise and I'm certainly not calling for the Giants to get rid of him because of it.
I don't give a shit what people that I don't know say about how he is off the field. Keep catching touchdowns and don't get suspended.
I'm fine rooting for an asshole. The guy is an incredible football player. Just don't tell me what a nice guy he is when the image he puts out to the world on Sunday is that of a huge asshole. I don't need the reassurance that he is something other than what he is showing me.
Quote:
I don't really care about the type of people they are off the field as long as they're not criminals (and I'm glad the Giants generally have a high bar when it comes to that stuff).
I enjoy watching Odell. I don't know if he's a good person or not. But I'd still root for him if he threw sticks at people in Central Park like in Big Daddy.
People who know him personally have attested to Beckham being a great kid. And don't doubt my words.
I find that believable. He can be obnoxious on the field but be great off it.
I will always doubt your words, though.
Quote:
The only proof I have that Beckham is an asshole is that he shows up his opponents and plays with no class. That's really just personal preference. I would consider such a person an asshole. Others may not.
I don't think Romo is an asshole because he plays for a rival. That's ridiculous. It just makes him someone I want to see lose.
Maybe not you...but you have to admit that Tony Romo is pretty much despised as a person (beyond a football player) on BBI with such flimsy reasons but that's fandom.
Yeah, and those people are idiots.
Was I supposed to hate Darrell Green because he played for Washington?
I don't think that's fandom. I think it's stupidity.
Was I supposed to hate Darrell Green because he played for Washington?
I don't think that's fandom. I think it's stupidity.
Fandom and stupidity also go hand in hand.
I will murder you. Doubt those words at your own risk...
I take into account the fact that he is young, he has a spotlight on him and he is also a fierce competitor. But calling your team out when they are down 35-7 vs Carolina and saying they lost interest by talking about "what are we doing after the game?" was a bad idea and raised eyebrows I'm sure.
If I am Odell, I keep my mouth shut and just play this year. Period end of story.
Finnegan was one of the dirtiest players in football. Norman is just a big mouth with a skill set for coverage, but is a cheap shot hitter.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
Who is remembered more fondly, Jerry Rice or Randy Moss?
Yes I believe in the responsibility of a Pro Athlete, a role model, etc to be better than that. We expect it from our military, our policemen/policewomen, etc and they don't have the fame or the money that pro athletes do.
It may just be his kryptonite. Norman can't compete with him physically so he got in his head. It's sad that is part of the game but it is. It could very well be the one thing that stops him from being the best ever. Can OBJ mature out of it?
All that being said there is no reason he can't fix this. It can very easily be looked back on as immaturity. OBJ vs Norman twice a year will be interesting to watch and will hopefully do great things for both of their career. If OBJ can fix that part of his game, which I believe is his biggest hurdle, he could be the best ever and Norman would end up an afterthought.
I respected Rice, but felt like Moss was a more physically gifted player.
Rather face Rice than Moss in their primes.
Point?
Sorry I'm late responding. I totally agree with your opinion on Rice and Moss. That is exactly my point and I guess I didn't make it clear. Who is most commonly regarded as the best WR ever? Hell some would claim Rice to be one of the best players ever. Yet Moss, in my opinion and yours, had more talent. So what's the difference between the two?
If you had to guess right now, outside of an injury, what would be the one thing that could hold Beckham back from being the best ever? It's not talent as his first 2 years have been incredible. I suppose he could retire too early but I doubt that. OBJ needs to decide if he wants to be the greatest ever and supplant Jerry Rice or be the next Terrel Owens, Ocho Cinco, or at best Randy Moss.
Contrast that with Anquan Boldin in that same game. Boldin was three years younger than Moss but with much more wear and tear, and a fraction of the talent. Boldin played that game like his life depended on it. A man possessed.
Or contrast it with Jerry Rice himself. At age 40 he had 92 catches for the Raiders, and in the Super Bowl played a huge game against a brutal Tampa defense.
Talent is only part of it. Gotta have heart and brains.
Recently I noticed that they have first been playing up Beckham then Norman which I assume is their trying to set up some kind of rivalry; IMHO they better review the tapes that I'm sure they have lying around in some closet and see if Norman is really the type of guy that the league wants to hang its hat on.
My mistake. Somehow I forgot he was in 42.
David. It wasn't? Football reference doesn't have any stats for him beyond that game.
Nevermind, completely forgot he was on SF. The post NE Moss and Oakland Moss never happened in my mind lol.
So he's an asshole. So what? I don't feel the need to make a case otherwise and I'm certainly not calling for the Giants to get rid of him because of it.
I don't give a shit what people that I don't know say about how he is off the field. Keep catching touchdowns and don't get suspended.
I'm fine rooting for an asshole. The guy is an incredible football player. Just don't tell me what a nice guy he is when the image he puts out to the world on Sunday is that of a huge asshole. I don't need the reassurance that he is something other than what he is showing me.
The disagreement here is that you're calling a guy an asshole because of the way he plays football. I've seen and read enough about what he does off the field to hold what I feel is an informed enough opinion that he is not at all an "asshole". Just because he plays with a flair and is a mega intense dude or celebrates after a big play doesn't make him an asshole in my book. Is he Barry Sanders? No, and he doesn't need to be. He's Odell Beckham. I think he acted like a shitty dude on 12/20/15. I also think that was an outlier.
You've already admitted that you know nothing about what he does off the field and don't care to and that's fine. I don't exactly follow his off field life daily but I do know enough to say that he's not a bad kid by any means.
You know who's an asshole? Greg Hardy is an asshole. Ray Rice is an asshole. Guys like that are who I have a problem with. Not guys who go all out on the field and don't do anything wrong off of it.
Like I said. If Beckham was on another team, I'd say the same things I say about someone like DeSean Jackson. I hate the guy, think he's annoying to play against and want to see him get leveled every time he has the football. I'd still respect the talent (even though Beckham is quite a bit better than Jackson). It's just being a fan. So, no.. all of this "if Beckham were an Eagle..." and complaining about a double standard is really just a waste of time.
And like I said I'm fine accepting that he's a shitty dude. If he does his job as well as he's been doing it that's all that fundamentally matters.
Let's try to stay in the realm of the reasonable. He likes to dance after touchdowns. That goes back to Billy White Shoes Johnson like half a century ago.
I also don't think Odell is as hated as you might think. I'm sure guys in this league want to lay him out but there are also times during most games where a defender will take him down and he'll get up and give them a quick pat on the helmet and say "hey, nice play". I think there's still a degree of respect. I'd rather more of that and less of the celebrating but it's just who he is.. I don't think any less of him for it.
He looked pretty damn stupid doing it.
No, I just don't believe in disrespecting other players.
I agree with you that it's happening all over the field. Beckham isn't the only guy doing really shitty dances.
But there's no doubt a lot of people seem to think it's pretty cool. You've got me there.
You don't seem to be able to distinguish between celebrating an accomplishment and disrespecting an opponent.
And if Beckham wants to keep showing people up, fine. I'm not calling for him to be benched or traded. He doesn't owe me anything. If he wants to, in my opinion, look like a god damn fool every time he scores a TD that's his prerogative. And it's my prerogative to think he's an asshole.
I don't care. I just take it with a huge mountain of salt when anyone tells me he's a good mood when they're saying it basically just because of the jersey he wears.
No...I actually have family who has personal knowledge of the kind of guy he is...and they have nothing but good thing to say about him. It has nothing to do with the color of his jersey at this point in the discussion.
And the family is a cousin (well, my brother's in-laws), who works for the Giants.
You don't? You'd be in a vast minority then, because everyone on this board has been calling guys like Terrell Owens and Desean Jackson (whose behavior I find identical to Beckham's) assholes and worse for years.
Quote:
Ugh.
No...I actually have family who has personal knowledge of the kind of guy he is...and they have nothing but good thing to say about him. It has nothing to do with the color of his jersey at this point in the discussion.
And the family is a cousin (well, my brother's in-laws), who works for the Giants.
That's great. And he's still a guy that acts like a jerk on the field.
Desean I could see. Except Odell doesn't pretend to be a crip, and doesn't owe his agent large sums of money.
In the NFL, it's literally the only question left.
The whole Norman saga showed he still has a ? Next to toughness. And this isn't just about that. It's about him acting out at times against overly physical/dirty opponents in the past. The Buffalo game wasn't just that cheap shot, he was acting funny that entire game. Same with the Panthers game, it wasn't just that dirty missile job it was the entire game. Hes targeted DBs in other games too, the Jax preseason game when he nailed Sergio Brown with a dirty shot. And Malcol Butlers physical play really bothered Odell in that Pats game.
Odell had a 1450/13 season in 15 games. But he dropped like 3 TDs including a couple of very important ones. He can be soo good. He just needs to chill out a bit imo, he can still be highly competitive amd retain that fire.