for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Sterling Shepard Question

kash94 : 7/27/2016 1:59 pm
Had a quick and random question about Shepard. So all reports seem great so far and even when the Giants drafted him, people were gushing.

One question I had was why he fell to the 2nd round? Furthermore, several other receivers were drafted ahead of him? Is it because he's more of a slot guy or what?

Just wondering what his potential negatives could be.
His height  
gidiefor : Mod : 7/27/2016 2:06 pm : link
....
Really, it was all about his size  
jlukes : 7/27/2016 2:13 pm : link
he was my favorite WR in the draft, so I can't tell you why he didn't go in the 1st round - I am just happy he lasted
I have not a clue  
Hades07 : 7/27/2016 2:15 pm : link
Why any of the WR were drafted ahead of him. I am no expert, but he looked to be the best WR in this class to me. Though in most of the recent drafts he would not have been. This was a weak class of WR imo.
I honestly don't follow the draft...  
okiegiant : 7/27/2016 2:16 pm : link
but I was hoping Shepard would end up a Giant.

I was bouncing off the walls when he was selected!
I hate to say it  
GeorgeAdams33 : 7/27/2016 2:17 pm : link
..but I read somewhere that he'd had a few concussions. This could be scaring teams off a bit on some players with all of the concerns and potential lawsuits.
Why did Tom Brady  
Fred in Atlanta : 7/27/2016 2:18 pm : link
last to the sixth round? It is impossible to completely figure out the draft.
RE: His height  
BillT : 7/27/2016 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13047131 gidiefor said:
Quote:
....

Yup. And he ran in the high 4.4s not the high 4.3s. Two more inches or a .1 and he's in top of the first round. That said, his route running and ball skills will show leaving him for us in the 2nd was their mistake and our good fortune.
people look at it like  
Randy in CT : 7/27/2016 2:21 pm : link
"Why didn't the other 32 teams take him if he's so great??"

The reality is that teams have value boards and positional needs.

Also, maybe we were smarter than other teams (or not).
I think most teams, due to his size and skillset, saw him as a #3  
SGMen : 7/27/2016 2:22 pm : link
wideout in the slot, possibly a #2, but not a #1.

The guys that went ahead of him have potentially more "upside" and possible #1 WR skills.

I loved the Shepard pick and do believe he'll produce year 1 right out of the gates.
Height, concussions, some felt he was only a slot guy  
robbieballs2003 : 7/27/2016 2:24 pm : link
Plus, different strokes for different folks. Treadwell was a bigger WR. Cleveland loved Coleman's speed and quickness but overlooked his route running. Fuller is a home run threat which helps out Houston. Doctson is raw but reminds me of AJ Green and Washington needs help on the outside. So, I don't think it is necessarily fair to judge him on where he got drafted.
Based on a google search he had 1 concussion in 2013  
WillieYoung : 7/27/2016 2:29 pm : link
Don't think that was a factor in dropping to the second. Size was.
Well....  
est1986 : 7/27/2016 2:31 pm : link
Coleman has more of that "special" player potential, higher ceiling, elite movement, maybe the next best route runner behind Shepard. 1 of just 2 WR I would have took over Shepard.

Fuller is the burner of the Draft (Although, Kolby Listenbee 5th rounder from Buffalo is too). Fastest guy in the draft, potential big play guy BUT hands of stone, I prefer Shepard. Houston wanted someone to take the top off the Defense, should compliment Hopkins well.

Doctson is well-rounded overall, has a big frame. Can go up and get it, can run routes fairly well, has good hands. But I don't see any star potential in him but I know a lot of people on BBI liked him coming out. Cousins needs a weapon and he can step up and be productive for Washington year 1.

Treadwell just made a ton of plays at Ole Miss, a lot of people said he is a similar player to Dez Bryant or that he has potential to be that player I would have took Treadwell over Shepard but there was no chance of Treadwell falling out of Round 1. I almost thought we would take Treadwell at 10. He can go up and get it against anyone in this league.

With all that said, Shepard is a small guy, shifty, fast but quicker than fast. Has elite jumping ability which helps him play bigger and gives us hope he can man more than just the slot spot. I was shocked as were many others that he lasted to our second pick. One of the rare times I was screaming at the TV for us to draft someone and we actually did. I think Shepard holds his own against any first round WR and I think everyone else knows this too.
RE: Well....  
arcarsenal : 7/27/2016 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13047178 est1986 said:
Quote:
Coleman has more of that "special" player potential, higher ceiling, elite movement, maybe the next best route runner behind Shepard. 1 of just 2 WR I would have took over Shepard.

Fuller is the burner of the Draft (Although, Kolby Listenbee 5th rounder from Buffalo is too). Fastest guy in the draft, potential big play guy BUT hands of stone, I prefer Shepard. Houston wanted someone to take the top off the Defense, should compliment Hopkins well.

Doctson is well-rounded overall, has a big frame. Can go up and get it, can run routes fairly well, has good hands. But I don't see any star potential in him but I know a lot of people on BBI liked him coming out. Cousins needs a weapon and he can step up and be productive for Washington year 1.

Treadwell just made a ton of plays at Ole Miss, a lot of people said he is a similar player to Dez Bryant or that he has potential to be that player I would have took Treadwell over Shepard but there was no chance of Treadwell falling out of Round 1. I almost thought we would take Treadwell at 10. He can go up and get it against anyone in this league.

With all that said, Shepard is a small guy, shifty, fast but quicker than fast. Has elite jumping ability which helps him play bigger and gives us hope he can man more than just the slot spot. I was shocked as were many others that he lasted to our second pick. One of the rare times I was screaming at the TV for us to draft someone and we actually did. I think Shepard holds his own against any first round WR and I think everyone else knows this too.


Corey Coleman is absolutely not the "best route runner behind Shepard".. the biggest knock on Coleman is exactly that. His route running. He ran a very limited tree in Briles' offense.

That's not to say he can't become a good route runner or won't be but there's really little evidence to make that type of claim.
I love Coleman as a prospect  
robbieballs2003 : 7/27/2016 2:41 pm : link
But he was very raw in terms of route running. It doesn't mean he cannot be great at it. In fact, I think Hue has already gotten through to him and he can be special.
He caught my eye his junior year at OU  
dune69 : 7/27/2016 2:45 pm : link
and I watched several games his senior year. I was so excited he fell to us and also excited we did not pass on him. It will take time, but he will be an exciting Giant player. He's a tough kid.
One thing not mentioned in the responses is that you are perhaps  
BlueLou : 7/27/2016 2:55 pm : link
Asking the wrong question. The proper question is what elevated Shepard into the early 2nd round to the 5th WR selected? Because before his senior year at Oklahoma he was graded to be in the group from 10-20 of all the 2016 WR prospects.

He was a good player for Oklahoma over his entire career there, but not "special" until his senior season.

So he was a bit under the radar for some scouts.
I'm not sure what you read or watched  
est1986 : 7/27/2016 3:00 pm : link
But from what I saw Coleman could move better than Shepard.. His routes weren't as crispy but his movement alone was special, he has OBJ type agility from what I saw, he was lazy when he wasn't the target. But he can move and I believe he will excel as a route runner in this league.
RE: Why did Tom Brady  
Beer Man : 7/27/2016 3:07 pm : link
In comment 13047156 Fred in Atlanta said:
Quote:
last to the sixth round? It is impossible to completely figure out the draft.
He was a rather unexciting, unspectacular college QB. He was drafted into the right pro-system for his skills and blossomed as success built on success.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/27/2016 3:07 pm : link
Coleman is more explosive than Shepard and has huge potential. There's just no evidence that he's a great route runner yet. He only ran a limited set of routes at Baylor. Almost everything he ran was a 9 or a curl. And on a big chunk of plays that went in the other direction, he didn't even do anything at all.

He basically ran no outs, comebacks or digs and to be a great NFL reciever, you have to be able to run all of these crisply.

He was also basically never asked to block nor does he have a great catching radius (a lot of body catching) but those are separate issues.

Love the potential but he's a very raw prospect.
Dude, the reports out of Cleveland's spring practices were that  
BlueLou : 7/27/2016 3:08 pm : link
Coleman has a loooong way to go to learn to run pass routes.

So I wouldn't go around bragging "I saw it myself watching him play at Baylor" because that leaves only 2 possibilities. Either you are lying, or you don't know what the heck you are watching.

Which is OK (the latter) we are not a bunch of pro scouts here.

But I wouldn't be arguing about it too much...
RE: I'm not sure what you read or watched  
robbieballs2003 : 7/27/2016 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13047222 est1986 said:
Quote:
But from what I saw Coleman could move better than Shepard.. His routes weren't as crispy but his movement alone was special, he has OBJ type agility from what I saw, he was lazy when he wasn't the target. But he can move and I believe he will excel as a route runner in this league.


I thought the same until someone told me that is how he was coached up. He isn't "lazy". He was coached not to do anything on run plays. Crazy, I know. But the coach's memtality was to conserve your energy for running routes.
Simple Answer  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/27/2016 3:27 pm : link
GMs are going to take gambles on younger/taller WRs that have a legit chance of being dominate outside receivers.

Sterling can certainly play outside, but his height and skillset is best suited for the slot.

He is not ever going to be Randy Moss, or Calvin Johnson. He can however be like Victor Cruz, and that's what we needed.
For all the reasons already list, most teams didn't see him as a #1WR  
Watson : 7/27/2016 3:30 pm : link
But had New England not lost their 1st round pick, don't think it would have been surprising for Sterling Shepard to be a Patriot instead.
RE: RE: I'm not sure what you read or watched  
est1986 : 7/27/2016 3:31 pm : link
In comment 13047252 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13047222 est1986 said:


Quote:


But from what I saw Coleman could move better than Shepard.. His routes weren't as crispy but his movement alone was special, he has OBJ type agility from what I saw, he was lazy when he wasn't the target. But he can move and I believe he will excel as a route runner in this league.



I thought the same until someone told me that is how he was coached up. He isn't "lazy". He was coached not to do anything on run plays. Crazy, I know. But the coach's memtality was to conserve your energy for running routes.


That's crazy. Ok. We shall see how he does in the pros.
RE: Dude, the reports out of Cleveland's spring practices were that  
est1986 : 7/27/2016 3:35 pm : link
In comment 13047237 BlueLou said:
Quote:
Coleman has a loooong way to go to learn to run pass routes.

So I wouldn't go around bragging "I saw it myself watching him play at Baylor" because that leaves only 2 possibilities. Either you are lying, or you don't know what the heck you are watching.

Which is OK (the latter) we are not a bunch of pro scouts here.

But I wouldn't be arguing about it too much...


Practice?? Spring.. Practice??? Lol your right dude no one is arguing as far as I see. And your right no scout just a big fan like yourself. I still stand by what I've wrote we shall see soon enough they will need him to produce early. And i did say "maybe the 2nd best route runner.."
RE: I hate to say it  
BMac : 7/27/2016 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13047154 GeorgeAdams33 said:
Quote:
..but I read somewhere that he'd had a few concussions. This could be scaring teams off a bit on some players with all of the concerns and potential lawsuits.


Funny, I keep seeing this concussion mantra but can't find any evidence that he's any more (or less) susceptible to concussion than any other player. I'd be shocked and would look askance at any player who supposedly never suffered a concussion and would suspect that it was just never reported.
RE: For all the reasons already list, most teams didn't see him as a #1WR  
SGMen : 7/27/2016 5:18 pm : link
In comment 13047276 Watson said:
Quote:
But had New England not lost their 1st round pick, don't think it would have been surprising for Sterling Shepard to be a Patriot instead.
Many before the draft were saying he is a "New England Patriots" kind of wideout with those short, quick cut routes.

My understanding is that Shepard was likely the most "NFL ready" wideout and that he'd certainly be a superb slot receiver in the NFL. Today's 3rd receiver gets almost as many snaps as the #2 WR. I think Shepard will do fine as a #2 wideout, but for this year he won't beat out a healthy WR V. Cruz. Not yet, maybe next year.
height and doesn't have the great speed  
chris r : 7/27/2016 6:26 pm : link
that overcomes that draft position wise.
Teams can not help themselves and get caught up in height,weight,speed  
Coach Mason : 7/27/2016 6:26 pm : link
And forget the single most important factor that defines a good receiver: route running.

Almost every excellent route running receiver in college seems to have at least some success in the NFL and its been Reeses pattern with almost all his recievers hes chosen in the top 2 rounds.

Smith,Nicks,OBJ,Shepard, Randle. All superior route runners in college. Randles demise was work ethic and desire but even with that he was at least moderately productive.
RE: RE: Why did Tom Brady  
Simms11 : 7/27/2016 6:49 pm : link
In comment 13047234 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13047156 Fred in Atlanta said:


Quote:


last to the sixth round? It is impossible to completely figure out the draft.

He was a rather unexciting, unspectacular college QB. He was drafted into the right pro-system for his skills and blossomed as success built on success.


Brady also didn't have the measurables coming out. He was a skinny lanky dude until he got into a pro workout routine. He was also only a starter like 1 year.
Because NE didn't have a first round pick  
KWALL2 : 7/27/2016 7:40 pm : link
They would have been all over Shepard.

Vikings will regret the choice they made. Treadwells Mike Williams type game won't work especially with that QB. He won't get open enough and the QB won't go his way.

Other WRs you can see why they went earlier especially Coleman and Fuller who can run past anybody.
Biggest part of route running  
KWALL2 : 7/27/2016 7:44 pm : link
Is planting, exploding out of the cut, and COD. Coleman has it. He will get open consistently in the NFL. His route running is not an issue.

This is why NFL guys go for the speed and explosion. If it's elite the route running isn't difficult.
RE: Biggest part of route running  
est1986 : 7/27/2016 8:44 pm : link
In comment 13047572 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Is planting, exploding out of the cut, and COD. Coleman has it. He will get open consistently in the NFL. His route running is not an issue.

This is why NFL guys go for the speed and explosion. If it's elite the route running isn't difficult.


Agreed re Coleman
ESPN or NFL Network kept playing a segment on Sterling  
SHO'NUFF : 7/28/2016 1:26 am : link
over and over again the morning of the 2nd round draft...I admired his character and commitment after his father passed and was hoping the Giants would draft him based on that alone. Then I started watching more on him just before our pick and I really wanted him. After the draft, with all the discussion, reports and more analysis, I'm ecstatic about the pick.
RE: ESPN or NFL Network kept playing a segment on Sterling  
SGMen : 7/28/2016 2:10 am : link
In comment 13047917 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
over and over again the morning of the 2nd round draft...I admired his character and commitment after his father passed and was hoping the Giants would draft him based on that alone. Then I started watching more on him just before our pick and I really wanted him. After the draft, with all the discussion, reports and more analysis, I'm ecstatic about the pick.
I too am ecstatic about the pick. He was definitely the best wide receiver available at #40 pick. He'll contribute game 1 and all season long. Maybe not #2 numbers but decent enough.

I think our first five picks ar all starters in 2017 and #6 TE Adams is the #2 TE behind Tye. It is of course but a gut feeling but Iike the feeling I have about this draft.
He was my favorite player  
Phil in LA : 7/28/2016 2:17 am : link
in the draft. And he was my favorite player for the Giants the year before but he didn't come out. If Cruz (who wasn't drafted) can come back -- this is checkmate.
RE: He was my favorite player  
SGMen : 7/28/2016 2:35 am : link
In comment 13047922 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
in the draft. And he was my favorite player for the Giants the year before but he didn't come out. If Cruz (who wasn't drafted) can come back -- this is checkmate.
With OBJ drawing double coverage, both Cruz and Shepard need to "feed" off him and get those easier catches. Move the chains and break one here and there.

I believe they'll go deep to Cruz at least once vs Dallas,likely in the first half, to show them he can still run and be a viable threat. That will keep the safeties honest and help our run game.

Look for Eli to have his best deep game year ever.
I like the optimism, just throwing some caution out there  
David in LA : 7/28/2016 2:48 am : link
We have two good, reliable OL in Richburg and Pugh. All we know about Flowers is that he can play through pain. We still have to see if he's made significant strides in the technique department. The right side of the OL has been beaten up enough this offseason around here. On top of that, still have lots of questions about our RB's. Can Jennings be durable? Can Andre Williams bounce back from last year? I'm optimistic about Perkins' potential, but I don't know if he's ready for a lead role yet. Vereen has his niche already established as a 3rd down back and someone that comes on the field in passing situations. I'm not saying we can't do it, just highlighting a lot of questions that are going to be answered this year.
RE: I like the optimism, just throwing some caution out there  
SGMen : 7/28/2016 2:54 am : link
In comment 13047931 David in LA said:
Quote:
We have two good, reliable OL in Richburg and Pugh. All we know about Flowers is that he can play through pain. We still have to see if he's made significant strides in the technique department. The right side of the OL has been beaten up enough this offseason around here. On top of that, still have lots of questions about our RB's. Can Jennings be durable? Can Andre Williams bounce back from last year? I'm optimistic about Perkins' potential, but I don't know if he's ready for a lead role yet. Vereen has his niche already established as a 3rd down back and someone that comes on the field in passing situations. I'm not saying we can't do it, just highlighting a lot of questions that are going to be answered this year.
You speak the truth. Pre-season optimism is part of my game, always has been even when I clearly knew better (ex. the Dave Brown years....yikes).

There is no guarantee R. Jennings, A. Williams or O. Dwarka are the answer as top back. I mean, would you be totally shocked if Jennings was released at the end of camp and Rainey is named the starter? Nothing would surprise me right now.

You have to believe LT E. Flowers improves. Had we taken Tunsil at #10 (he went #13) over Apple, well, we'll always be wondering should he develop to be a standout tackle. He feel from potential first pick in draft to #13 for a reason but I am not sure what the reason truly is. Giants passed on him so that was telling.
I doubt Jennings gets cut  
Bluesbreaker : 7/28/2016 8:24 am : link
I don't like whats behind him Bobby Rainey was my surprize
roster pick who most think is camp fodder .
IF Perkins develops that would be best case scenario .
Darkwa need's to stay healthy or Williams all of a sudden
blossoms (which I doubt) .
We can ill afford to over use Jennings and to me he is a Key
player on the team I think not only as a tough runner but
a true leader and he did block a punt as well .
I think Williams is the odd man out unless he actually
shows Vast improvement .
.  
arcarsenal : 7/28/2016 9:37 am : link
Jennings is not getting cut. I don't know why that keeps getting mentioned here. He's the best all around back we have right now. Durability is certainly a concern and it's not saying much that he's 1st on the DC right now given the group we have.. but that's just what it is right now. He's a solid RB.
RE: I have not a clue  
NYDCBlue : 7/28/2016 6:05 pm : link
In comment 13047146 Hades07 said:
Quote:
Why any of the WR were drafted ahead of him. I am no expert, but he looked to be the best WR in this class to me. Though in most of the recent drafts he would not have been. This was a weak class of WR imo.


Wow, BBI is tripping. He has legitimate size limitations. Maybe be is talented enough to be a #2 guy, which is what we need, given our glut of #3 guys, however, no one here expects him to be our #1 guy. We already have Beckham.
So....  
KWALL2 : 7/28/2016 7:42 pm : link
He has legitimate size limitations and maybe he can be a #2 because we have Beckham (who is exactly the same size).

Who's trippin here?
RE: So....  
NYDCBlue : 7/29/2016 12:23 am : link
In comment 13049010 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
He has legitimate size limitations and maybe he can be a #2 because we have Beckham (who is exactly the same size).

Who's trippin here?



You.... Shepherd is shorter than Beckham. About an inch and a half or more. Beckham is also faster.
RE: .  
SGMen : 7/29/2016 12:40 am : link
In comment 13048089 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Jennings is not getting cut. I don't know why that keeps getting mentioned here. He's the best all around back we have right now. Durability is certainly a concern and it's not saying much that he's 1st on the DC right now given the group we have.. but that's just what it is right now. He's a solid RB.
But we are all assuming that at age 31 Jennings can still be the guy he was at the end of last year. All I am saying is that a guy at RB can lose his ability quickly. A 1/4 step of quickness makes him pedestrian.

Look at the history of the NFL and you'll find age 31 normally shows big fall off in terms of production. So if guys like Williams, Dwarka and Rainey all show well in camp along with rookie Perkins you could see him a "surprise cut" . Chances are 1 out of say 20 that happens, sure, but to say at 31 Mr. jennings is the same guy well we just can't be sure until the pre-season games.
Back to the Corner