People have been talking up Sterling Shepard and Darian Thompson on here based on mini camps and media hype. Is our 1st round pick being ignored/forgotten or are there lower expectations of what he can do during his first year in the league?
rookies while CB Eli Apple is likely the #3 guy playing the outside and maybe some slot CB as the year moves along and he learns.
Personally, I would not be surprised if S/CB B. Jackson doesn't win the slot CB job and leave Apple as essentially the backup CB with limited snaps per game, at least to start the season.
If Eli Apple was considered the opening day starter I think you'd see more articles about him.
RE: WR Shepard and FS D. Thompson: projected starters as Â
rookies while CB Eli Apple is likely the #3 guy playing the outside and maybe some slot CB as the year moves along and he learns.
Personally, I would not be surprised if S/CB B. Jackson doesn't win the slot CB job and leave Apple as essentially the backup CB with limited snaps per game, at least to start the season.
If Eli Apple was considered the opening day starter I think you'd see more articles about him.
Agree, Apple was a BPA pick, and drafted with the idea he could grow into the position.
Apple seems to be more of a very-high-upside guy rather than a plug-and-play guy. Likely because he's so young and raw and there are two bona fide starters in front of him. Kinda like JPP when he was drafted. Apple was a long-term pick, so it's not surprising that his exposure in the short-term is less than some of the other guys who could start right away.
played two defensive snaps in Week 1 of 2015. He wound up playing 528 defensive snaps for the year (46% of total) because of injuries to DRC and Prince, which began Week 2 with DRC's concussion.
So we'll probably see a lot of Apple, regardless of how much he plays Week 1. But I'm not buying that he gets outside preference over Jenkins in the nickel. Giants aren't paying Jenkins a zillion dollars to play the slot
The #10 pick in a draft (we are not talking 25-30) should be a plug in starter sometime in his rookie season. If he is not that type of player or possess that type of skill set then it's a big MISS. You need a top 10 pick to be on the field especially when you were not a playoff team for the past 4 years.
Nickle outside with Jenkins moving inside. This will be about 60% of the defensive plays. Is that a starter?
I thought that too but began to consider S/CB B. Jackson as the potential opening day nickel CB. Some reports say CB Jenkins isn't a "natural" nickel CB. I can't speak to that but if true maybe the Giants make sure Jackson, Apple, Jenkins and Wade are all ready to play nickel CB? Apple may not see time in the slot but may see some time on the outside.
Hard to say right now, but I think we'll know a lot more by the end of the August 12 pre-season game vs Miami. We'll have a few camp reports, insights plus the game tape. With only 13 practices, you have a limited amount of time to learn. I think veterans have a huge advantage for starting opening day if they are talented. A rookie may have more potential and upside but you don't start him out of the gates and cost yourself games and wins when a veteran can help carry you early.
harder then outside. No Boundary to help with WR having a two way go.
I agree. There are far fewer quality slot corners than there are outside corners. It is a different skillset. Some guys can do both but not everyone.
One thing I do believe: the 2016 draft is going to go down as one of our best ones of this century. 2016 reminds me of 2007 for some reason and we know that those young guys learned as the year went and carried us to the SB as much as anyone not named Eli did.
Jumping ahead for 2017, I would not be shocked to see picks 1 to 5 starting: Apple, Shepard, Thompson, Goodson and Perkins and Adams active each game as the 2nd TE behind Tye.
I believe though my belief is based more on faith and a gut feeling than "on the field" production. I also believe our 2014 and 2015 drafts will bear fruit this year and really contribute as well. This team will make a big leap this year as the youth develops, we stay healthy (for once), continuity and energy from a new coaching staff.
I think Reese watched teams trade in front of the Giants to grab players they had their eye on. Apple was just the best of what was left
Why? He's going to play plenty unless hurt, you need to be 5 deep now at CB. Even our 4th CB is going to see a ton of playing time and that's before injuries.
Watching his college highlights, (he stunk) but his physical abilities were off the charts.
So maybe the Giants see the same thing with Apple. He's big, strong, smart, can run and jump - all very important attributes for outside corners. He'll be matching up with the Dez Bryants of the NFL.
Watching his college highlights, (he stunk) but his physical abilities were off the charts.
So maybe the Giants see the same thing with Apple. He's big, strong, smart, can run and jump - all very important attributes for outside corners. He'll be matching up with the Dez Bryants of the NFL.
Some scouts had him as the #2 CB, after Jalen (who may be a FS in the NFL anyway...). He has big upside for sure and yes he'll get snaps this year.
I liked the Apple pick simply because next year we could have 3 superb cover corners and solid experienced safeties. We need that. And for those that think DRC will be a cap casualty, I doubt it. you need 3 corners in this league. Lets hope CB Jenkins is the answer in the slot.
We'll see how they end up using him and how well he plays as Â
a rookie. But Eli Apple is not only young, he only has two years of experience in college football. So I think we can expect more from him in the future than we can as a rookie.
Watching his college highlights, (he stunk) but his physical abilities were off the charts.
So maybe the Giants see the same thing with Apple. He's big, strong, smart, can run and jump - all very important attributes for outside corners. He'll be matching up with the Dez Bryants of the NFL.
JPP, 2009, USF: 13 games, 45 tackles (16.5 TFL), 6.5 sacks, 1 INT (returned for a TD). That's your definition of "stunk?"
I should add that of those 13 games, he only started seven. Â
pretty much the replacement for DRC who is 30 and has 3 years (this year included) left on his contract. He can be cut on his final year with $2 million in dead money. Also a high upside backup here.
But who knows, we could see him get a lot of snaps at one of the CB spots in 3 WR sets.
He was making a of arm tackles that were being broken (of QBs & running backs).
I recall that there was a lot of very intense second-guessing of the pick (probably more than I've ever seen for any #1 pick that I can remember). The media was very polarized on the subject (a lot more than even BBI).
He was making a of arm tackles that were being broken (of QBs & running backs).
I recall that there was a lot of very intense second-guessing of the pick (probably more than I've ever seen for any #1 pick that I can remember). The media was very polarized on the subject (a lot more than even BBI).
"In the one (singular) highlight, I saw, he stunk, in that one highlight, so he stunk."
The #10 pick in a draft (we are not talking 25-30) should be a plug in starter sometime in his rookie season. If he is not that type of player or possess that type of skill set then it's a big MISS. You need a top 10 pick to be on the field especially when you were not a playoff team for the past 4 years.
Amen. ESPN had the OSU-MSU replay last night. Apple did not have a good game.
...One thing I do believe: the 2016 draft is going to go down as one of our best ones of this century.
I get the optimism and excitement, but maybe it's a tad early to go there. You do realize there are 84 more years in this century, right?
To date in this century. It is just a gut feeling, just something seems right about this draft. Of all of our picks the guy that worries me most is CB Apple only because we know he is a guy with "upside" potential rather than a polished, ready to go guy. This wasn't an overly deep draft really. I hope the kid is taking snaps every game and shows he can be a #1 CB be the last quarter of the season.
I believe we drafted five starters for 2017 and a #2 TE for 2017 in Adams, behind Tye and Donnell will be gone via UFA.
At CB our pick should have been William Jackson III Â
He was the next CB taken he is polished and led all College in passes defended. I personally do not like Apples work ethic. I look at pictures of him in work outs.
This is what I observe
1. He is not dedicated to the Gym workouts.
I know the Giants weight train, but he hasn't bulked up
By the start of training camp this week, I should see he
has been lifting. and has gotten stronger.
2. His technique is lazy. Not sharp and military precise
He has a laid back energy and still seems like he is
walking to his next class on campus at Ohio State with a back pack. That's why I compare Apple to Mark Haynes who had the same demeanor.
3. It looks to me he puts in minimum effort and only doing what is only required and no going the extra mile with study
4. Apple doesn't seem to be improvising and lacks
intensity. The picture of William Jackson high
enthusiasm in the link says everything about how he
feels about playing football. Link - ( New Window )
RE: At CB our pick should have been William Jackson III Â
He was the next CB taken he is polished and led all College in passes defended. I personally do not like Apples work ethic. I look at pictures of him in work outs.
This is what I observe
1. He is not dedicated to the Gym workouts.
I know the Giants weight train, but he hasn't bulked up
By the start of training camp this week, I should see he
has been lifting. and has gotten stronger.
2. His technique is lazy. Not sharp and military precise
He has a laid back energy and still seems like he is
walking to his next class on campus at Ohio State with a back pack. That's why I compare Apple to Mark Haynes who had the same demeanor.
3. It looks to me he puts in minimum effort and only doing what is only required and no going the extra mile with study
4. Apple doesn't seem to be improvising and lacks
intensity. The picture of William Jackson high
enthusiasm in the link says everything about how he
feels about playing football. Link - ( New Window )
Many say we should have tried to trade down, that maybe Apple or Jackson or an OT would have been there 15-20 range. But it isn't guaranteed anyone would trade with us to move up.
I have faith Eli Apple was the right pick at #10. But I also believe we may not see a strong corner until 2017. He needs some work on his technique and if he can add 5 lbs of real muscle that would be all the better.
but if he struggles and his mom feels the need to defend him/play armchair GM she's going to become more annoying than she already is which doesn't seem possible
“He would text me: Can you get this,” Coombs recalls. “There would be lots of conversations about different things that he was watching and ways to get better . . . When other kids might be spending time playing video games or doing something else, Eli’s watching film. He would always have it (his iPad) with him. He would ask for more film."
He is well known for being voracious with studying tape. Link - ( New Window )
“He would text me: Can you get this,” Coombs recalls. “There would be lots of conversations about different things that he was watching and ways to get better . . . When other kids might be spending time playing video games or doing something else, Eli’s watching film. He would always have it (his iPad) with him. He would ask for more film."
He is well known for being voracious with studying tape. Link - ( New Window )
Good stuff, love a hard worker who wants it. Camp will tell us a lot about him.
Is that we have 2 excellent starters in DRC and Jenkins. And yes, Apple is not a natural slot CB and will have to learn there.
Conversely, WR (pending Cruz's health) and Safety are the thinnest positions on the team for starters- so of course we are talking about the rookies we are hopeful about there.
...One thing I do believe: the 2016 draft is going to go down as one of our best ones of this century.
I get the optimism and excitement, but maybe it's a tad early to go there. You do realize there are 84 more years in this century, right?
To date in this century. It is just a gut feeling, just something seems right about this draft. Of all of our picks the guy that worries me most is CB Apple only because we know he is a guy with "upside" potential rather than a polished, ready to go guy. This wasn't an overly deep draft really. I hope the kid is taking snaps every game and shows he can be a #1 CB be the last quarter of the season.
I believe we drafted five starters for 2017 and a #2 TE for 2017 in Adams, behind Tye and Donnell will be gone via UFA.
Cool...to date in this century. You may very well end up being right. There's certainly a lot of potential in this draft class. And the new coaching staff does seem more oriented to using available talent than we've seen in a while. The mere fact that there aren't a lot of posters foaming at the mouth and cursing out Reese for this draft says a lot by itself. Quiet optimism. By now Reese would have been drawn and quartered even before training camp began.
One thing we're going to have to get used to with Eli A. There are going to be too many flags with this guy in the first year. No matter how good the position coach is Eli's tendency to grab when he's beat will come through. That's what he's gotten away with and it will take more than his rookie year to shake. They'll need to work on his confidence in his pure coverage ability, which he certainly seems to have.
RE: At CB our pick should have been William Jackson III Â
He was the next CB taken he is polished and led all College in passes defended. I personally do not like Apples work ethic. I look at pictures of him in work outs.
This is what I observe
1. He is not dedicated to the Gym workouts.
I know the Giants weight train, but he hasn't bulked up
By the start of training camp this week, I should see he
has been lifting. and has gotten stronger.
2. His technique is lazy. Not sharp and military precise
He has a laid back energy and still seems like he is
walking to his next class on campus at Ohio State with a back pack. That's why I compare Apple to Mark Haynes who had the same demeanor.
Wow, not military precise and comparable to Mark Haynes. Out of curiosity, which CBs in the league do you consider to be militarily precise? Mark Haynes may not have been, but he was one hell of a cornerback. Frankly, I'd settle for militarily imprecise but as good as Mark Haynes. Just think about that for a moment, DRC and Mark Haynes in the same defensive backfield. I suspect military preciseness and demeanor wouldn't enter the discussion after a game.
1. He is not dedicated to the Gym workouts.
I know the Giants weight train, but he hasn't bulked up
By the start of training camp this week, I should see he
has been lifting. and has gotten stronger.
The Giants just reported to camp and some shit for brains already can tell somebody's dedication to the weight room.
A historically bad poster just upped his ignorance quotient which I thought was impossible.
1. He is not dedicated to the Gym workouts.
I know the Giants weight train, but he hasn't bulked up
By the start of training camp this week, I should see he
has been lifting. and has gotten stronger.
The Giants just reported to camp and some shit for brains already can tell somebody's dedication to the weight room.
A historically bad poster just upped his ignorance quotient which I thought was impossible.
I'm still waiting for him to explain how he knows that Romeo Okwara weighs between 240 - 250 pounds.
Apple? I thought we drafted the guy in the gas mask? Â
Personally, I would not be surprised if S/CB B. Jackson doesn't win the slot CB job and leave Apple as essentially the backup CB with limited snaps per game, at least to start the season.
If Eli Apple was considered the opening day starter I think you'd see more articles about him.
Personally, I would not be surprised if S/CB B. Jackson doesn't win the slot CB job and leave Apple as essentially the backup CB with limited snaps per game, at least to start the season.
If Eli Apple was considered the opening day starter I think you'd see more articles about him.
Otherwise
In the NFL he'll be an onfield penalty machine at 15 yards a clip.
So we'll probably see a lot of Apple, regardless of how much he plays Week 1. But I'm not buying that he gets outside preference over Jenkins in the nickel. Giants aren't paying Jenkins a zillion dollars to play the slot
Hard to say right now, but I think we'll know a lot more by the end of the August 12 pre-season game vs Miami. We'll have a few camp reports, insights plus the game tape. With only 13 practices, you have a limited amount of time to learn. I think veterans have a huge advantage for starting opening day if they are talented. A rookie may have more potential and upside but you don't start him out of the gates and cost yourself games and wins when a veteran can help carry you early.
One thing I do believe: the 2016 draft is going to go down as one of our best ones of this century. 2016 reminds me of 2007 for some reason and we know that those young guys learned as the year went and carried us to the SB as much as anyone not named Eli did.
Jumping ahead for 2017, I would not be shocked to see picks 1 to 5 starting: Apple, Shepard, Thompson, Goodson and Perkins and Adams active each game as the 2nd TE behind Tye.
I believe though my belief is based more on faith and a gut feeling than "on the field" production. I also believe our 2014 and 2015 drafts will bear fruit this year and really contribute as well. This team will make a big leap this year as the youth develops, we stay healthy (for once), continuity and energy from a new coaching staff.
Why? He's going to play plenty unless hurt, you need to be 5 deep now at CB. Even our 4th CB is going to see a ton of playing time and that's before injuries.
Watching his college highlights, (he stunk) but his physical abilities were off the charts.
So maybe the Giants see the same thing with Apple. He's big, strong, smart, can run and jump - all very important attributes for outside corners. He'll be matching up with the Dez Bryants of the NFL.
Watching his college highlights, (he stunk) but his physical abilities were off the charts.
So maybe the Giants see the same thing with Apple. He's big, strong, smart, can run and jump - all very important attributes for outside corners. He'll be matching up with the Dez Bryants of the NFL.
I liked the Apple pick simply because next year we could have 3 superb cover corners and solid experienced safeties. We need that. And for those that think DRC will be a cap casualty, I doubt it. you need 3 corners in this league. Lets hope CB Jenkins is the answer in the slot.
Watching his college highlights, (he stunk) but his physical abilities were off the charts.
So maybe the Giants see the same thing with Apple. He's big, strong, smart, can run and jump - all very important attributes for outside corners. He'll be matching up with the Dez Bryants of the NFL.
JPP, 2009, USF: 13 games, 45 tackles (16.5 TFL), 6.5 sacks, 1 INT (returned for a TD). That's your definition of "stunk?"
But who knows, we could see him get a lot of snaps at one of the CB spots in 3 WR sets.
He was making a of arm tackles that were being broken (of QBs & running backs).
I recall that there was a lot of very intense second-guessing of the pick (probably more than I've ever seen for any #1 pick that I can remember). The media was very polarized on the subject (a lot more than even BBI).
I get the optimism and excitement, but maybe it's a tad early to go there. You do realize there are 84 more years in this century, right?
He was making a of arm tackles that were being broken (of QBs & running backs).
I recall that there was a lot of very intense second-guessing of the pick (probably more than I've ever seen for any #1 pick that I can remember). The media was very polarized on the subject (a lot more than even BBI).
"In the one (singular) highlight, I saw, he stunk, in that one highlight, so he stunk."
Is what you just said.
Amen. ESPN had the OSU-MSU replay last night. Apple did not have a good game.
Quote:
...One thing I do believe: the 2016 draft is going to go down as one of our best ones of this century.
I get the optimism and excitement, but maybe it's a tad early to go there. You do realize there are 84 more years in this century, right?
I believe we drafted five starters for 2017 and a #2 TE for 2017 in Adams, behind Tye and Donnell will be gone via UFA.
This is what I observe
1. He is not dedicated to the Gym workouts.
I know the Giants weight train, but he hasn't bulked up
By the start of training camp this week, I should see he
has been lifting. and has gotten stronger.
2. His technique is lazy. Not sharp and military precise
He has a laid back energy and still seems like he is
walking to his next class on campus at Ohio State with a back pack. That's why I compare Apple to Mark Haynes who had the same demeanor.
3. It looks to me he puts in minimum effort and only doing what is only required and no going the extra mile with study
4. Apple doesn't seem to be improvising and lacks
intensity. The picture of William Jackson high
enthusiasm in the link says everything about how he
feels about playing football.
Link - ( New Window )
This is what I observe
1. He is not dedicated to the Gym workouts.
I know the Giants weight train, but he hasn't bulked up
By the start of training camp this week, I should see he
has been lifting. and has gotten stronger.
2. His technique is lazy. Not sharp and military precise
He has a laid back energy and still seems like he is
walking to his next class on campus at Ohio State with a back pack. That's why I compare Apple to Mark Haynes who had the same demeanor.
3. It looks to me he puts in minimum effort and only doing what is only required and no going the extra mile with study
4. Apple doesn't seem to be improvising and lacks
intensity. The picture of William Jackson high
enthusiasm in the link says everything about how he
feels about playing football. Link - ( New Window )
I have faith Eli Apple was the right pick at #10. But I also believe we may not see a strong corner until 2017. He needs some work on his technique and if he can add 5 lbs of real muscle that would be all the better.
He is well known for being voracious with studying tape.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
“He would text me: Can you get this,” Coombs recalls. “There would be lots of conversations about different things that he was watching and ways to get better . . . When other kids might be spending time playing video games or doing something else, Eli’s watching film. He would always have it (his iPad) with him. He would ask for more film."
He is well known for being voracious with studying tape. Link - ( New Window )
Conversely, WR (pending Cruz's health) and Safety are the thinnest positions on the team for starters- so of course we are talking about the rookies we are hopeful about there.
Quote:
In comment 13047319 SGMen said:
Quote:
...One thing I do believe: the 2016 draft is going to go down as one of our best ones of this century.
I get the optimism and excitement, but maybe it's a tad early to go there. You do realize there are 84 more years in this century, right?
To date in this century. It is just a gut feeling, just something seems right about this draft. Of all of our picks the guy that worries me most is CB Apple only because we know he is a guy with "upside" potential rather than a polished, ready to go guy. This wasn't an overly deep draft really. I hope the kid is taking snaps every game and shows he can be a #1 CB be the last quarter of the season.
I believe we drafted five starters for 2017 and a #2 TE for 2017 in Adams, behind Tye and Donnell will be gone via UFA.
Cool...to date in this century. You may very well end up being right. There's certainly a lot of potential in this draft class. And the new coaching staff does seem more oriented to using available talent than we've seen in a while. The mere fact that there aren't a lot of posters foaming at the mouth and cursing out Reese for this draft says a lot by itself. Quiet optimism. By now Reese would have been drawn and quartered even before training camp began.
One thing we're going to have to get used to with Eli A. There are going to be too many flags with this guy in the first year. No matter how good the position coach is Eli's tendency to grab when he's beat will come through. That's what he's gotten away with and it will take more than his rookie year to shake. They'll need to work on his confidence in his pure coverage ability, which he certainly seems to have.
This is what I observe
1. He is not dedicated to the Gym workouts.
I know the Giants weight train, but he hasn't bulked up
By the start of training camp this week, I should see he
has been lifting. and has gotten stronger.
2. His technique is lazy. Not sharp and military precise
He has a laid back energy and still seems like he is
walking to his next class on campus at Ohio State with a back pack. That's why I compare Apple to Mark Haynes who had the same demeanor.
Wow, not military precise and comparable to Mark Haynes. Out of curiosity, which CBs in the league do you consider to be militarily precise? Mark Haynes may not have been, but he was one hell of a cornerback. Frankly, I'd settle for militarily imprecise but as good as Mark Haynes. Just think about that for a moment, DRC and Mark Haynes in the same defensive backfield. I suspect military preciseness and demeanor wouldn't enter the discussion after a game.
I know the Giants weight train, but he hasn't bulked up
By the start of training camp this week, I should see he
has been lifting. and has gotten stronger.
The Giants just reported to camp and some shit for brains already can tell somebody's dedication to the weight room.
A historically bad poster just upped his ignorance quotient which I thought was impossible.
Quote:
1. He is not dedicated to the Gym workouts.
I know the Giants weight train, but he hasn't bulked up
By the start of training camp this week, I should see he
has been lifting. and has gotten stronger.
The Giants just reported to camp and some shit for brains already can tell somebody's dedication to the weight room.
A historically bad poster just upped his ignorance quotient which I thought was impossible.
I'm still waiting for him to explain how he knows that Romeo Okwara weighs between 240 - 250 pounds.
No that's the guy who occasionally smokes out of an apple.