NFT: Mets vs Rockies Game 1, Degrom Day!

!

last night but the season goes on. Too early to throw in the towel.

I was hoping for 2/3 from STL and 3/4 from COL, so let's at least get half of that and get 3/4 from COL and take it from there.

Rockies best pitcher went last night I believe (as did our worst, who btw, pitched great) so we're well positioned here.

No excuses, LGM!

tough L last night.

Need a big game out of the deGrominator today. Lets get some positive momentum heading into the weekend. There will be some big crowds heading out to Citi for the Piazza festivities.

that this is a day game. Too bad... i would've liked to watch it...

This dude is putting out lineups like they're leading the division. And can afford to drop games

chance that he's out longer than today...

goes 7+ and the lead is big enough that the bullpen doesn't face much pressure.

LGM!

will have to carry the team, looks like there wont be as much help for offense as last season. ugh, should have kept murphy.

But things could be much worse.

62 games to go. An eternity.

Let's get things rolling!

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Next men up, we really need the other guys to step up.

not in the lineup today for the Brewers.

Not really a big advocate for him but would be interesting.

Would that mean Rosario?

I don't think Lucroy is out of the lineup for any other reason than him struggling against lefties.

No way I am dealing Rosario for him.

be beyond furious with Rosario to the Brewers for Lucroy.

John Heyman was on with Mark Malusis about an hour ago and said that the Brewers were asking for Rosario or Conforto (maybe both) and Alderson would not (thankfully do that). Anthony DiComo was on earlier than that and said the same. (he didn't name Rosario or Conforto).

Last year when the division was 2-3 games away and the Nationals struggled, we pounced and it worked (albeit we needed 3 more wins in that WS). However, for a coin flip Wildcard game, I would rather the Mets build a team that will contend for 4-5 years (if thats possible) with Dan Metro and others - does the farm look good for that?

In comment 13048412 Drewcon40 said:

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John Heyman was on with Mark Malusis about an hour ago and said that the Brewers were asking for Rosario or Conforto (maybe both) and Alderson would not (thankfully do that). Anthony DiComo was on earlier than that and said the same. (he didn't name Rosario or Conforto). Last year when the division was 2-3 games away and the Nationals struggled, we pounced and it worked (albeit we needed 3 more wins in that WS). However, for a coin flip Wildcard game, I would rather the Mets build a team that will contend for 4-5 years (if thats possible) with Dan Metro and others - does the farm look good for that?

Comes down to the health of the SP and the ability to keep/replace/add to Cespedes + Conforto and others showing consistency. They have enough in the farm to compete for a WS if they spend/make enough moves to build around what they have. I actually would love adding Lucroy but not for Rosario and Conforto (or either of them).

The most I'd be willing to give up for Lucroy is d'Arnaud + Cecchini or Herrera. I wouldn't give up Rosario or Smith and I absolutely would not give up Conforto.

I'm sure they asked but both are non-starters. Nothing really matters except the market. Last year nobody was willing to give up big assets for Upton, Cespedes, or even Gomez truthfully, despite his contract. If the market for Lucroy is strong we won't get him, if it's not strong we might have a chance if they like TDA and some of our secondary types (Nimmo, Herrera, Cecchini, etc).

but TdA is also out of the lineup today.

In comment 13048451 Eric on Li said:

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but TdA is also out of the lineup today.

Rene Rivera .876 OPS vs. lefties so far this season, .881 his other "good" season 2014

TDA .360 OPS vs. lefties so far (granted very few ab's). I think you are reading too much into it. I think they both simply are getting the day off.

at the last minute of the deadline or not at all.

real upside for the Brewers to play Lucroy today. They obviously are willing to move him. Have him nice and fresh over the weekend with a big performance.

pulls a Murph and inexplicably tries to take third on the throw home which was cut-off. He was out by 15 feet.

watching.

Rivera > d'Arnaud

is behind almost every single hitter, similar pattern as Thor early in his last start.

for not running that out

making a case for gold glove today. Several nice plays on the mound.

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but Rivera needs to start getting more starts.

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Gotta get the runner over in that situation

Here come the RISPFAIL's

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the hanging curve, too many easy outs in this Mets lineup.

Sure enough.. 0-3..

Never ends with this team, man.

Mets are "confident" they will acquire a reliever but they are looking at potential lineup additions first.

Really have to get Wilmer out of the lineup ASAP.. the hitting doesn't belong in this lineup.

I'd go deGrom another inning. he's under 100 pitches and I don't trust anyone else really. Maybe Robles.

But deGrom is only at 97 pitches. He can probably give us one more.

could probably pitch the 8th @ only 97 pitches but figure they'll PH for him with the score 1-0

3 hits.

for deGrom I think with runners on 2nd and 3rd no out.

With 2nd and 3rd no out.. Here come the RISP fails

cespy, IBB?

Give that man a raise.

no out, Lagares will be up.

no DP and no K, that's all I ask

Here we go..

but I'd consider PH-ing Conforto here.

I mean you want Lagares in for his defense at this point, but he's missed some pitches in this game.

one here. Please.

Johnson I guess, but who plays CF now?

So many things happening.. Cespedes intentionally walked, Matz pinch running.. pitching change, Johnson pinch hitting for Lagares... oh, baseball.

In comment 13048712 pjcas18 said:

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Johnson I guess, but who plays CF now?

de Aza I would think. Johnson can play in LF

EXCITING!

LOL.. here we go. There's one failure.

thought we could break this open and maybe finish it up with Goeddel/Bastardo.

In comment 13048716 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

In comment 13048712 pjcas18 said: Quote: Johnson I guess, but who plays CF now? de Aza I would think. Johnson can play in LF

Yep, I would have PH Conforto, but I guess with KJ being 1 for 2 with a HR against the pitcher it made sense.

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he's not a strikeout pitcher I knew Grandy would strikeout.

Now here comes the pop out to end the inning.

You really can't make it up. You knew they wouldn't score, it was just a matter of figuring out how they'd screw it up.

and now DeGrom is out.

.

There it is.

Did anyone doubt for even a second that they wouldn't score? This team doesn't deserve to make the postseason. I've never seen more pathetic situational hitting ever.

In comment 13048700 debo_GIANTS said:

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With 2nd and 3rd no out.. Here come the RISP fails

Called it!

..

play by Flores at 3B

I thought Familia was unavailable? Blevins to close?

Yikes.

Collins will probably try getting 6 outs from Reed and we'll lose the game

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Great. Day game after a blown save last night and he's going right back to him. This should go over real well. Reed still has to get through the 8th first.

CarGo

Nice job, Jerry.

back to Familia. Reed has pitched a lot too, and Familia has been walking a tight rope all season.

Get him back out there and straighten himself out.

K's CarGo. Insurance run? Crazy thought I know...

Here comes the 1-2-3 inning.

In comment 13048753 pjcas18 said:

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back to Familia. Reed has pitched a lot too, and Familia has been walking a tight rope all season. Get him back out there and straighten himself out.

I think he threw like 40+ high stress pitches a half a day ago. Certainly not ideal but I agree with your premise.

day game after a night game when he threw some many pitches last night. I would've rather gone Roebles -> Reed.

Oh well. Time for him Jeurys to get back on track.

I hope he has Robles ready if Familia gets into any trouble. I'd give him a quick hook today. If we blow this game it'll be really, really bad.

time for some fun!

Sigh...

Familia being pinpoint with his control.

he seems all over the place this year.


and that was a terrible throw

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Just fucking put Robles in. This is ridiculous. He's going to cost us the game.

Publicly say he is unavailable and then go right fucking to him. Fuck you Collins.

fired so far.

just awful..

have to be kidding me

!

This is going to be every bit as shitty as the loss to the Padres almost exactly one year ago.

This one especially because you saw it fucking coming 2 innings ahead of time.

Way to go, Terry.

can be traced back to PH-ing for deGrom.

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why the heck is familia in the game? I thought he said that he was unavailable last night?

This one is fucking disgusting.

in months? Or does he just randomly show up when things are good to tell us how we are all Aholes and then disappear when TC does stuff like this.

In comment 13048794 bhill410 said:

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why the heck is familia in the game? I thought he said that he was unavailable last night?

Because with DeGrom cruising and at 97 pitches through 7 terry PH for him in the eighth with 2 on 0 outs. Which then forced him to go to reed in the 8th instead of the 9th

deserve to lose now

is better than Duda defensively needs to be hit in the back of the head with a shovel.

familia you fuck

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In comment 13048794 bhill410 said:

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why the heck is familia in the game? I thought he said that he was unavailable last night?

because he's the closer ..... or at least he was

TC specifically said he was not available today and Reed would be the closer. Yet here he is.

Familia certainly isn't closing this game.

Terry Collins has pissed me off.

The

Fuck

:'(

Is a moron

In comment 13048802 ZGiants98 said:

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is better than Duda defensively needs to be hit in the back of the head with a shovel.

Loney is light years ahead of duda defensively, it's not even debatable.

As Z said at the time, he should have been in to start the inning. Total WTF moment right there.

and has become unwatchable.

come back here? We're not exactly facing Aroldis Chapman.... LGM!

Before the inning even started I said he should quick hook Familia if he got into any trouble and get Robles in there.. instead, Collins waits for the lead to not only be blown but for us to be trailing to make the move.

And OF FUCKING COURSE, Robles came in and got 2 outs. If he had just taken Familia out when he walked Dahl, we probably win this game.

In comment 13048828 Metnut said:

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come back here? We're not exactly facing Aroldis Chapman.... LGM!

Cmon man, you know how this movie ends. We're going out nice and quiet. Probably 1, 2, 3.

rockies closer comes in 6 pitches 6 strikes.

Familia, with great stuff, comes in and nibbles.

9th takes like half an hour and the bottom of the 9th takes less than 5 minutes

I don't know if I've ever rooted for a team as predictable as this one. The second we failed with the bases loaded and no out, it was pretty clear and when Collins went back to Familia that sealed it.

how you pitch familia if you are that deep in a game and still have both reed and robles healthy.

at the deadline here. And it's not an overreaction I've been saying it for a while.

Walker, Cabrera, Loney, Lagares, TDA, Colon, Verrett Johnson, Grandy, even Cespedes since you know he will opt out.

all should be on the market.

the Mets could probably get better pieces trading Cespedes than they could in a draft pick. Just think similar situation, they gave up Fulmer+ for him a year ago.

Preposterous.

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but if they drop the next 3 games and internally they have no plans to resign ces it may be the smart move. Wont happen, just saying what could be smart.

And it's not as if they have guys significantly underperforming who you would expect to turn it around. You're right that they're unlikely to sell but it would be a smart play.

I'm saying they should be.

think about it, the offense is anemic, they can get these same results with less offense if that's possible.

No position player on this team should be off limits. And many should be shopped starting with the glut of mediocre at-best middle infielders.

In comment 13048865 Greg from LI said:

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And it's not as if they have guys significantly underperforming who you would expect to turn it around. You're right that they're unlikely to sell but it would be a smart play.

I think D'Arnaud and Conforto are significantly underperforming. We're also starting maybe the worst 1B in MLB and will be replacing him with a solid 3 + WAR guy in a few weeks.

I hope Sandy doesn't do a rental, but I'd be fine with standing pat and seeing what happens. 2 games out of a wild card spot with 60 games to go, and being defending NL champions to boot, would be kind of pathetic to waive the white flag IMO.

and find themselves 5 games out by the trade deadline... well... i'd understand the logic better in that case...

think about it if you're two games out of the WC with the worst offense in the league, how is trading away some of that dead weight waving a white flag?

Last in MLB in .avg, 28th in runs, 21st in OPS (thanks to the solo HR), 24th in OBP, 28th in SB's, etc.

and worst in MLB (by a lot) batting with RISP.

In comment 13048887 pjcas18 said:

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think about it if you're two games out of the WC with the worst offense in the league, how is trading away some of that dead weight waving a white flag? Last in MLB in .avg, 28th in runs, 21st in OPS (thanks to the solo HR), 24th in OBP, 28th in SB's, etc. and worst in MLB (by a lot) batting with RISP.

How is Cespedes dead weight? Trading him is certainly waiving the white flag.

Who else could we even trade? Granderson has nil value and we'd be lucky to get someone to take his contract (Melvin Upton is having a better year, is like 5 years younger, and had close to nil value). Colon would have some (not much though!) value but would be waiving the white flag without anyone to replace.

Reed might get a real prospect but bullpen would be weakend. Maybe you could get single A type of live arm for Neil Walker (and give the ABs to Flores with no downgrade).

Mets are suffering from some bad luck with RISP. Good chance that it'll regress too late to matter but I'm still encouraged that they are getting lots of men on base lately.

but he's not moving the needle offensively enough to keep around. That move would be more about the future, but I still don't consider it waving the white flag.

Trading Thor or deGrom is waving the white flag. Trading Reed or Familia is waving the white flag (despite recent struggles).

Familia asked to pitch.

Not sure i buy it, but that's what's being tweeted

we get swept at home on Mike Piazza weekend, maybe we should see what the offers for Ces are. I'll at least concede that.

Rosario to the DL... what a crappy day.

Two years in a row the Thursday before the trade deadline was horrible and had a Familia blown save.

In comment 13048911 Metnut said:

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we get swept at home on Mike Piazza weekend, maybe we should see what the offers for Ces are. I'll at least concede that. Rosario to the DL... what a crappy day. Two years in a row the Thursday before the trade deadline was horrible and had a Familia blown save.

eerily, they both had back to back blown saves.

Conforto hasnt established anything yet

today and yesterday included. Still a lot of time left in the season. Need to get Cespedes (and Reyes) healthy first and foremost. Also need to get Conforto going - I know ADA has been better lately and had a hit, but with Cespedes out it is asinine to not play Conforto every day in LF.

On a seperate note...

Quote:

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago Sources: #Brewers re-engaged #Mets today on Lucroy. Discussions continuing. No indication that deal is close.

I still anticipate that if a big deal materializes it's most likely to happen at the last minute, with Sandy waiting patiently as he did last year once the Gomez trade fell through.

In comment 13048930 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

today and yesterday included. Still a lot of time left in the season. Need to get Cespedes (and Reyes) healthy first and foremost. Also need to get Conforto going - I know ADA has been better lately and had a hit, but with Cespedes out it is asinine to not play Conforto every day in LF. On a seperate note... Quote: Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago Sources: #Brewers re-engaged #Mets today on Lucroy. Discussions continuing. No indication that deal is close. I still anticipate that if a big deal materializes it's most likely to happen at the last minute, with Sandy waiting patiently as he did last year once the Gomez trade fell through.

How do you know how patient he was?

The Gomez trade was announced on 7/28

It was called off due to Gomez physical on 7/29

it is then rumored the Mets explored several other options including Upton and Jay Bruce.

and the Cespedes trade was announced minutes before the deadline.

So sure, you can say he was patient or you could say he was desperate. The Mets all along were rumored to be uninterested in Cespedes or Upton because they didn't want a rental. And they wound up with a rental (that worked out perfectly), but I'm not sure I'd say it was a result of patience.

Herrera out due to injury
Becerra out of the season
Rosario to the DL

Smith out today, not sure if planned day off, punishment from yesterday, trade, or what

In comment 13048828 Metnut said:

Quote:

come back here? We're not exactly facing Aroldis Chapman.... LGM!

Exactly. Common sense eludes TC. He shouldve gone with Robles and Reed for the last two innings for the win.

For Lucroy. Seems steep.

up rumored Ces to DL (or Reyes?)

Wouldn't be totally thrilled but I'd still probably do it. Absolutely no more than that though.

Didn't Lucroy say last year that he didn't want to play in NY though or that he wasn't a "big city guy" ?

That's not exactly what you want to hear from a potential acquisition. You knew a guy like Cespedes was going to embrace the big city so it made a ton of sense. Don't know if that'll be the case with Lucroy.

In comment 13048934 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13048930 Eric on Li said: Quote: today and yesterday included. Still a lot of time left in the season. Need to get Cespedes (and Reyes) healthy first and foremost. Also need to get Conforto going - I know ADA has been better lately and had a hit, but with Cespedes out it is asinine to not play Conforto every day in LF. On a seperate note... Quote: Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago Sources: #Brewers re-engaged #Mets today on Lucroy. Discussions continuing. No indication that deal is close. I still anticipate that if a big deal materializes it's most likely to happen at the last minute, with Sandy waiting patiently as he did last year once the Gomez trade fell through. How do you know how patient he was? The Gomez trade was announced on 7/28 It was called off due to Gomez physical on 7/29 it is then rumored the Mets explored several other options including Upton and Jay Bruce. and the Cespedes trade was announced minutes before the deadline. So sure, you can say he was patient or you could say he was desperate. The Mets all along were rumored to be uninterested in Cespedes or Upton because they didn't want a rental. And they wound up with a rental (that worked out perfectly), but I'm not sure I'd say it was a result of patience.

I disagree with all of this. First, Gomez never really "failed" a physical. Sandy wasn't 100 % satisfied with how it looked so he asked Milwaukee to drop their price (still would have done it if they had). He was under huge pressure from the media to get it done and he passed. After the Cespedes deal was done it was reported Sandy was talking to The Tigers early in the day AND had a deal on the table for Bruce if he wanted it (discussed the night prior). Sandy could have pulled the Bruce trigger at any time on the last day but was still shopping for the best deal. All the way up until the end of the day. I see a ton of patience in there when other GMs would have panicked (see Zambrano deal) but I guess we see what we want.

and Flores for Gomez would have been a major fail.

the trade was agreed to.

you can't rewrite history.

Sandy can't simply say I'm having second thoughts.

Quote:

A baseball official with direct knowledge of the trade confirmed to USA TODAY Sports that an issue with a physical examination nixed the deal. The person spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the matter. The shocking about-face comes after one Milwaukee teammate even posted a photo of the Brewers� Latin players saying goodbye to Gomez on the team flight.

As good as Fulmer might become, and even if Wheeler never comes back beyond a mediocre pitcher, at the time Wheeler and Flores was thought of as a MUCH higher price than the trade for Cespedes.

Anyway, it's irrelevant, I'm not spending any time on this.

I wouldn't call Sandy at last year's trade deadline patient.

Is it risky to trade Cheech IMO. The guy has the range for SS and the arm strength. His offense is profiling like a pure star there if he can figure out the mental gaffes. Man, would it sting to see him go on to become the next Xander Boegarts. On top of that TDA might actually be better than Lucroy over the next few years and is under more control and is younger. Yikes.

Not sure how I'd feel. Guess it helps us in the short term a little.

We now know it was nixed because Milwaukee wouldn't drop their price. Sandy would have still traded for Gomez if they had.

TdA packing in a trade. I mean, face it, he is really nothing special. At some point you need to stop talking about "potential". The guy is a china doll and has proved absolutely nothing. This is his fourth season with the Mets and I'd have to say that he's a pretty big disappointment. He's going to be 28 next season. Not really sure I see much improvement to what he is...which is a pretty mediocre ballplayer. If we can ship him out for a real catcher, I'd be all for it.

He's been injured a lot. I get it. I dont think you're really dreaming on potential anymore though. TDA OPSed over .800 last year and was a huge component of our postseason push. As for this season, it's still a pretty small sample, but he's been hitting since he's been back.

Lucroy has had three healthy seasons in MLB himself and is 31. He also only has one year left on his deal.

I still would feel like TDA is the best bet to be a solution for a few years here.

That being said, I too would swap TDA for Lucroy. No problem there. It's how much we would be adding to that that has me worried.

Heyman is now saying a mystery team has gotten involved and the Mets are behind anyway so who knows.

JULY 28, 7:11pm: The Mets are believed to be �behind� other organizations in pursuit of Lucroy, Jon Heyman of Fan Rag tweets. But it�s still a �fluid� pursuit for one of the best-available players this summer.

Heyman adds that there�s a mystery team involved. There�s another layer of intrigue here, perhaps, as that could be another report on a solitary, unidentified trying organization � or it may represent the second such unknown entrant to the sweepstakes. (See Crasnick�s report referenced below.)

4:29pm: The Brewers have �re-engaged� with the Mets on Lucroy after New York�s initial offer was reportedly deemed light, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter). That doesn�t mean that the sides are anywhere close to a deal, he cautions, but it seems at least that there�s more to discuss.

Adam Rubin ✔@AdamRubinESPN
Believe there is a DL candidate with the Mets that's neither Cespedes nor Reyes. Sounds like an outfielder, though.

Familia to close in the postseason anymore.. He's just too erratic.

is reporting Will Smith to the Mets. WTF is going on. They also reported the Beltran deal. No other confirmation anywhere.

Rhett Bollinger ✔@RhettBollinger
Mystery solved. No trades. It was scrolling potential trade partners based on this article: http://atmlb.com/2aC4oAY https://twitter.com/TwinkieTown/status/758827592044589056 �

saying Lagares to DL

DL.

is going to the DL

?

Devin Lintao
‏@DevinLintaoNY
Hearing that Lucroy deal with #Mets is being held because the team wants to add Jeffress/Smith to the deal as well, can't agree on names.

In comment 13049091 sphinx said:

Quote:

?

And the one RH seemingly banged up and is day to day?

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Caseytheghost @stengelsghost
@DevinLintaoNY @loshernandez29 so would you say that Lucroy to the mets is more likely than not?
Follow
Devin Lintao @DevinLintaoNY
@stengelsghost @loshernandez29 Yes, I'd be willing to go that far, pieces are there in place, Sandy offers low, MIL asking more. > No Budge.

NICE!

James Wagner ✔@ByJamesWagner
Juan Lagares (who has played w/ sprained thumb) likely DL bound & to see doc Fri., per source. @AdamRubinESPN 1st & said surgery possible.

to lose our best CF.

De Aza is becoming irresplaceable now. Good thing he is heating up.

In comment 13049108 spike said:

Quote:

to lose our best CF. De Aza is becoming irresplaceable now. Good thing he is heating up.

Yup. Thank GOD we have him.

Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Posenthal)
1 hour ago - View on Twitter
Source: #Mets acquire Jonathan Lucroy and Jeremy Jeffress from #Brewers in exchange for Travis d'Arnaud, Juan Lagares, and Thomas Szapucki.

Szapucki is in this deal? FUCK.

Ken Posenthal.. fake account. Cmon man.

I would have rather traded Cecchini or even Smith than Szapucki. 20 year old throws high 90's with a curve and CU.

for a 31 year old catcher having a down year.

don't like this at all.

Ken Posenthal. Love twitter.

if Shecky has anything to say right now. lol

Unless we are talking about his defense. "Average Lucroy" is a wRC+ 111 hitter. He's sitting around 120.

Offensively he is Ben Zobrist. For their careers they have both been very hard to strike out, Zobrist walks a little bit more and Lucroy hits for a slightly higher average, their stats are almost exactly the same this year. As we learned last year, that kind of player is fully capable of dominating in the postseason - even without going on an unexpected homerun binge like Murphy.

Plus he's signed next year for like $5M and is a 5 full years younger (though catchers usually break down earlier than others). I don't want to give up Wheeler, Smith or Rosario. Cecchini would hurt but we'd probably have to do it.

of Lucroy's BABIP. It's the highest of his career. It does seem like he is selling out for a little more power to hide the fact that he's making less contact (ie already started his decline most likely)

Ugh.

Matt Ehalt @MattEhalt
Apparently Brewers in stage of trying to get teams' best/*final offers (<96 hours left). Last I heard they wanted d'Arnaud in any deal.

Remember Beltran the year before we got Delgado? Other than Braun there's pretty much nothing in the Milwaukee lineup and he's been hitting 4th behind Braun all year. With Chris Carter (hitting .219 with 130 k's) behind him he's still hitting .300, his power is up, and he's striking out more - which certainly supports the "selling out for power" argument. Put him 3rd behind Granderson/Reyes and ahead of Cespedes and I think he's getting a lot of big hits.

I just hate giving up the farm for a very "win now" short term fix.

Lucroy's home/road splits are a little scary too. He hits MUCH better in Milwaukee.

In the least his BABIP likely puts him right at his career average of a wRC+ of 111. That's certainly great for a catcher but can TDA give us that? I think it's likely after what he showed last year.

This one is a tough one. I really wanted Cespedes at last year's deadline. Plugged a huge hole and was a clear difference maker. I dont know....

despite any similarities in the numbers it's extremely unlikely TdA gains enough consistency to become a 3-4-5 hitter in the middle of this season. On the scale of probabilities I'd say it's at least twice as likely he breaks his collarbone in a cab.

Could be right. But it is the small upgrade this year worth TDA developing and becoming clearly better the next three years? And what if players like Cheech and Smith are going the other way?

I just feel ickey all over about this. Of course I'll get on board if it happens though. Just hope the package isn't too big.

and I don't consider it a minor upgrade. We've gotten the 4th least amount of production from our catchers this year, we'd be moving up to 2nd or 3rd most probably. That's not a small upgrade.

I agree about the prospects going the other way though. Losing either Smith or Cecchini would hurt. I'd far prefer trading Nimmo or Herrera.

when TDA was out for two months. Obviously, Plawecki brought that WAY down. TDA has been league average-ish since he's been back (100) with potential for more (last year 130s). Lucroy is a 111 hitter (yeah its 121 but his BABIP tells me he's probably the same guy). I consider that a minor upgrade offensively.

but I'll bite. In almost 1000 ABs TdA's career wRC+ is 103. His career batting average is .245 (exactly what he's hitting right now). He's 27 years old, at some point he has to start producing for more than a month at a time.

Also since he broke out in 2012, Lucory's average wRC+ is significantly higher than 111. The straight average of the 5 years listed below is 119, and the actual weighted average is likely over 120 since he only played in 100 games last year.

2012 - 135
2013 - 116
2014 - 132 - all star and 4th in MVP voting
2015 - 93
2016 - 121 - all star

is better than D'Arnaud this year, and has hit better than D'Ardaud throughout his career. He's also a superb defensive catcher. He makes the Mets better both in 2016 and 2017.

I think the Mets should put a good offer together, but not go overboard. D'Arnaud and Smith (if they throw in their reliever who is cost controlled for another 3+ years) might be the max I'm willing to go. Rosario and Conforto (Brewers apparently asked for both) I wouldn't trade straight up for Lucroy.

His numbers arent better than Verretts

In comment 13049265 spike said:

Quote:

His numbers arent better than Verretts

Wow, they gave away Naylor, who I LOVE!!!!!

For cheap. Seems like a lot. Goes to show how valuable starting pitching is. We are lucky to even have guys like Verrett and Gilmartin who can fill in.

In comment 13049150 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

but I'll bite. In almost 1000 ABs TdA's career wRC+ is 103. His career batting average is .245 (exactly what he's hitting right now). He's 27 years old, at some point he has to start producing for more than a month at a time. Also since he broke out in 2012, Lucory's average wRC+ is significantly higher than 111. The straight average of the 5 years listed below is 119, and the actual weighted average is likely over 120 since he only played in 100 games last year. 2012 - 135 2013 - 116 2014 - 132 - all star and 4th in MVP voting 2015 - 93 2016 - 121 - all star

Well just because you think it's stupid, doesn't make it so. I'm still waiting for you to show me something better that encompasses more. Basically, all you did was show me Lucroy has a bigger sample and both of their top end years are similar.

doesn't just go to the league leader in wRC+ every year. That's why there's a batting champion and the triple crown is a significant and rare achievement. You dumbing everying down to 1 stat is the football equivalent of saying Eli Manning is worse than Ryan Fitzpatrick because he had a lower QBR. Even the best stats can be misleading in a vacuum.

Also in his best year (last year) TdA only played in 67 games - so saying their "best seasons are comparable" is nonsense. Lucroy's best season he was 4th in the MVP voting. TdA has never even sniffed 4th in the all star voting at his own position. TdA has flashed comparable potential, but at this point he is Jared Saltalamachia until proven otherwise. Lucroy on the other hand is easily one of the top 2-3 players at his position.

"The Mets have chatted with the Pirates about a possible Jon Niese return, SB Nation�s Chris Cotillo tweets. New York has previously been suggested to have some interest in the lefty, who was dealt from New York to Pittsburgh over the winter. As before, though, the Mets don�t appear to be prioritizing starting pitching, given that the club has reasonable back-of-the-rotation options at hand with Zack Wheeler still working toward a return"


Can we send Walker back?
Niese? - ( New Window )

No idea where we'd play him (1B maybe if we're concerned about Duda? he's played 3 games there in his career). Doesn't seem like there's a match there at all unless maybe we're planning to send Granderson the other way? But then we'd still have 3 starting caliber COF'ers who can't or don't want to be moved to CF.

In comment 13049740 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

doesn't just go to the league leader in wRC+ every year. That's why there's a batting champion and the triple crown is a significant and rare achievement. You dumbing everying down to 1 stat is the football equivalent of saying Eli Manning is worse than Ryan Fitzpatrick because he had a lower QBR. Even the best stats can be misleading in a vacuum. Also in his best year (last year) TdA only played in 67 games - so saying their "best seasons are comparable" is nonsense. Lucroy's best season he was 4th in the MVP voting. TdA has never even sniffed 4th in the all star voting at his own position. TdA has flashed comparable potential, but at this point he is Jared Saltalamachia until proven otherwise. Lucroy on the other hand is easily one of the top 2-3 players at his position.

Holy shit dude. It isn't even remotely the same thing as QBR. lol. Bill James called OPS the truest measure of a players offensive production in the fucking 1970s!! Time magazine called James one of the most influential people in the world but I suppose Eric on LI knows more than Bill James?? Since the 1970s, we have taken OPS and made it even better. We now have a way to use OPS and adjust for park factors, leagues, and even time periods and we have even reduced it down to a nice easy formula. The object of the game if you are trying to create offense is to not make outs. How much damage you do while not making said outs is what it's all about. It isn't rocket science. Any second-grade child can figure out that batting average is an incomplete stat. A guy that is hitting .300 with zero home runs or extra base ability isn't as valuable as a .300 hitter who has 30 HR. Just give it up. Stop fighting it. Welcome to 2016.

As for your other points, do you even research anything before you type it? You know who was the league leader in wRC+ last year?? Bryce fucking Harper. You know what he did last year? Win the MV fucking P. You know who are the leaders now? Mike Trout, Josh Donaldson, and David Ortiz. All freaking MVP candidates this year. You know who has the best team offense in baseball? The freaking Red Sox. You know who has the highest team wRC+ in baseball?? The freaking Red Sox.

I have no issue if you want to discuss other stats. Discuss whatever you want. Batting average, RBIs, what color socks players use on Tuesdays... I really dont care... But they are crumbs in comparison to something like wRC+ or OPS+ in terms of the overall pie.

I also have no doubt with Statcast being released to the public now something will come along that's even better, and even more refined. Its going to happen. Until then, this is what we got and this is what I use for a quick reference.

because for some reason I keep doing it. Next time i'll skip posting just look up wRC+ to save time.

In comment 13049819 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

because for some reason I keep doing it. Next time i'll skip posting just look up wRC+ to save time.

Haha. Tool.