Papa is on as we speak.
Mentioned Cruz and feels he's going to be fine but to be fair he was looking pretty good last season before going down with the calf. Mentioned what many of us have said that the Giants don't need 2011 Cruz, just need a steady option and he can provide that. Still, need to see Cruz playing in games to believe it.
JPP couldn't tackle or sack anyone last year. The new glove would appear to help JPP's cause this year but Papa needs to see it to believe it.
Take the 5 games they blew with NOTHING on D and flip 3 of them and the Giants are in the playoffs.
I missed some of what was said. Nothing earth shattering but I figured everyone would want to know.
BBI hates everyone pretty equally. lol.
TC is gone because he blew two sure wins due to his clock management flubs. I also think ownership saw TC as the "oldest coach in NFL" and also saw a young guy they liked as a HC in McAdoo; a DC that has HC'ing experience in Spagnolo; and, a change of atmosphere was needed.
Reese was likely kept because it appears his 2014-2015 drafts looked better and they didn't want to overhaul the team completely - YET.
Trust me, if we flop and go 4-12 after spending all that money REESE is gone. Ownership may push for a new GM that won't fire McAdoo if they feel he was a strong HC but lack of depth or whatever caused him to lose another 6 close, close games. Or something like that. It really depends upon how the season goes.
I think the last 3 drafts will end up being graded "above average" and this year the cream will rise to the top and next year we'll peak, assuming we keep UFA's of need moreso than lose them.
Giant 10-6 or 11-5 (Eli, DLine and overall improvement)
Dallas 8-8 or 9-7 (run game carries them to close wins)
Skins 6-10 or 7-9 (hard schedule)
Eagles 5-11 or 6-10 (not very talented overall really)
I'm being kind to Dallas assuming mass protect will keep Romo upright for longer this year but that defense will keep things close. Romo will eventually be lost for a period or the season on a hard hit. His body has takent a beating.
Race (and gender) are cards that are being vastly overplayed these days, ignoring any other factors that may be in play.
You have a president who was elected TWICE by this country, but if someone criticizes his policies; it's "because he black". I heard someone say last night vote for me, I'm a woman - and if elected, the first criticisms will be dismissed "because the country does not respect a woman."
Let's stay with the content, and not the labels.
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Race (and gender) are cards that are being vastly overplayed these days, ignoring any other factors that may be in play.
You have a president who was elected TWICE by this country, but if someone criticizes his policies; it's "because he black". I heard someone say last night vote for me, I'm a woman - and if elected, the first criticisms will be dismissed "because the country does not respect a woman."
Let's stay with the content, and not the labels.
I live by my 3 key words: Grace, Love and Consequences (both our choices and understanding we have no control of others choices which may or may not impact us). Heck, even the bible commands us 365 times "Do not be afraid" (or do not fear), once for each day of the year, because it is FEAR that all too often guides us rather than grace, love, understanding and rational thinking.
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In comment 13049699 drkenneth said:
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In comment 13049696 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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you are talking about a BBI population that produces game threads that would make morons blush.
The vitriol towards Reese is minor compared to some of the shit said on game threads where one guy wanted to rip Fewell's head off and shit down his neck. One guy wanted TC to die on the field. Even Eli gets called a fucking idiot there.
Point is, there are a lot of mouth-breathers here. Some probably could be racist, but let's not gussy it up - most are really just ignorant putzes.
And lest we forget - there was an incident once where death was wished on the owners and one current poster came out and said it was a good thing George Young died.
Racism is trumped by idiocy.
No argument here.
Holy shit, if you have seen the examples that FMiC just posted and agree with his premise, why are you then asking for proof that TC has been insulted and mocked on here as if it never happens. You're like a bipolar internet poster with regards to this subject.
Since you have not been following the discussion, Let me explain also why I am discussing "race". My original post on here (which you responded to) was in response to a post claiming that Race is the main reason why Reese has caught hell. So before you keep stateing "I never brought Race innto it" you need to understand the course of the ongoing conversation
My fault....Coming in the middle here.
Race is not the main reason. Agreed.
It is my view that Reese was made out to be the main reason for this team's failures over the past few seasons.
I saw Coughlin as a part of the problem. That's all.
Reese has taken a lot more shit that Coughlin ever did. Not sure how you can not see this.
I've defended Reese this entire offseason.
Reese takes shit now because he is still with the team and he was called out specifically by the owners for not doing a good job. Why is this so hard to understand?
People also leave out injuries and the fact that Coughlin had input into the roster.
People also leave out injuries and the fact that Coughlin had input into the roster.
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some of the hatred and venom directed at Reese from many fans is sketchy to say the least. Don't tell me his race doesn't play a part. It most certainly does. I'm not naive enough to believe it doesn't.
Well, one poster here referred to him as a "diversity hire," so I won't say you're completely wrong, but I think most of the criticism directed at JR has nothing to do with his race.
People also leave out injuries and the fact that Coughlin had input into the roster.
Well those same excuses could also be applied to Coughlin correct?
Also, curious to know why McAdoo said it's on the coaches to develop the guys that they select? There's an implication there that the previous staff didn't do a great job in that department.
At this point what difference does it make?
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Again- my point is/was that I feel Reese got more shit than he deserved this offseason. People can't separate him from Coughlin.
People also leave out injuries and the fact that Coughlin had input into the roster.
Well those same excuses could also be applied to Coughlin correct?
Of course. But Reese isn't 70 years old, and would have been hired immediately somewhere else. The NFL agrees with me, as he's not coaching anymore. And Coughlin cost us games last year.
You have to evaluate them separately, which many here are unable were/are able to do.
One was a 70 year old who clearly had lost his fastball, had cost us games, had issues choosing coordinators/coaches, and had input on roster.
Reese had some bad drafts, no doubt, but anyone who's paying attention knows shit happens, and injuries were #1 issue.
Coughlin's time is up. It has nothing to do with Reese. He could have been fired years before.
This team hasn't been well coached either. Should have been 8-8 at worst last year.
What a dumb post. Reese had bad drafts and the team suffered brutal injuries. Being 16 - 0 this year won't change that.
Terrible argument. Why would a team spend vet minimum money on an unproven player when they can get a similar guy for less on a rookie deal? You'd probably be surprised if you looked at how many guys don't make it past their rookie deals. For the most part, Reese has drafted well in rounds 1 and 2. Round 3 leaves more to be desired. Teams aren't finding studs in rounds 4-7, those are guys that probably don't see a next contract.
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In comment 13049884 drkenneth said:
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Again- my point is/was that I feel Reese got more shit than he deserved this offseason. People can't separate him from Coughlin.
People also leave out injuries and the fact that Coughlin had input into the roster.
Well those same excuses could also be applied to Coughlin correct?
Of course. But Reese isn't 70 years old, and would have been hired immediately somewhere else. The NFL agrees with me, as he's not coaching anymore. And Coughlin cost us games last year.
You have to evaluate them separately, which many here are unable were/are able to do.
One was a 70 year old who clearly had lost his fastball, had cost us games, had issues choosing coordinators/coaches, and had input on roster.
Reese had some bad drafts, no doubt, but anyone who's paying attention knows shit happens, and injuries were #1 issue.
Coughlin's time is up. It has nothing to do with Reese. He could have been fired years before.
You honestly don't think Reese had input in every one of those situations you list?
The drafts have also improved over the last 3 years. Did Coughlin improve as a coach during that time? I'd say it's very clear that one guy is trending upwards, and the other is trending downwards. Yet, some people can't figure out why Coughlin was shown the door.
Watch if McAdoo gets into the playoffs, people will just say that he benefited from the Giants spending money, and that the team still screwed Coughlin. I'm not so sure that some posters here are Giants fans or actually Coughlin fans.
Want to silence someone that disagrees with you on an issue. Call them a racist, a homophob, a religious nut, etc.
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injuries. Why his fanboys can't admit he's been hit and miss the past few years is pretty hilarious.
The drafts have also improved over the last 3 years. Did Coughlin improve as a coach during that time? I'd say it's very clear that one guy is trending upwards, and the other is trending downwards. Yet, some people can't figure out why Coughlin was shown the door.
Watch if McAdoo gets into the playoffs, people will just say that he benefited from the Giants spending money, and that the team still screwed Coughlin. I'm not so sure that some posters here are Giants fans or actually Coughlin fans.
David, well said. Exactly my thoughts. The fact TC is no longer coaching just reinforces this. The entire NFL agrees.
This gif is mesmerizing. Do you have one with him smoking at local golf courses after he's been told not to?
Horrendous talent due to injuries and bad picks. I hope you aren't suggesting being up against the cap means you have the talent to win. Or perhaps you're suggesting the Giants had a talented team last year?
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injuries. Why his fanboys can't admit he's been hit and miss the past few years is pretty hilarious.
The drafts have also improved over the last 3 years. Did Coughlin improve as a coach during that time? I'd say it's very clear that one guy is trending upwards, and the other is trending downwards. Yet, some people can't figure out why Coughlin was shown the door.
Watch if McAdoo gets into the playoffs, people will just say that he benefited from the Giants spending money, and that the team still screwed Coughlin. I'm not so sure that some posters here are Giants fans or actually Coughlin fans.
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why did we suck all the other years?
Horrendous talent due to injuries and bad picks. I hope you aren't suggesting being up against the cap means you have the talent to win. Or perhaps you're suggesting the Giants had a talented team last year?
2015 Giants were a 9/10 win team on paper last year. That was before they lost their starting LT, #2 WR, 4 safeties, #2 corner, best DT, and their best player on D blew his hand off on the 4th of July. Clearly Reese's fault.
They went 6-10. Losing 5 games in final 2 minutes. 4 man RB rotation, the Beckham incident. Not a stretch to say TC cost us 2 games last year.
Some fans don't deserve to win.
Maybe it was Coughlin
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injuries. Why his fanboys can't admit he's been hit and miss the past few years is pretty hilarious.
The drafts have also improved over the last 3 years. Did Coughlin improve as a coach during that time? I'd say it's very clear that one guy is trending upwards, and the other is trending downwards. Yet, some people can't figure out why Coughlin was shown the door.
Watch if McAdoo gets into the playoffs, people will just say that he benefited from the Giants spending money, and that the team still screwed Coughlin. I'm not so sure that some posters here are Giants fans or actually Coughlin fans.
Hey, I have no dog in this fight. I wanted TC gone after 2014. But since TC has been gone, Reese fanboys have become just as bad as TC's were when he was still here. I mean, for God's sakes, we just had someone (not you) say last year's team was a 9/10 on paper. Yeah...um, no.
I'm not TC defender, as you know. But while TC is not a coach anymore, it is important to point out that he is also 70 years old. And while he is not a coach, he now has a pretty important job in the NFL that he got hired for this week. I'm willing to bet my life-savings that Reese won't be in the NFL, let alone a GM, at age 70. Just saying.
That's 8-8. You don't think losing all the players they did cost them another 2?
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In comment 13049944 David in LA said:
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why did we suck all the other years?
Horrendous talent due to injuries and bad picks. I hope you aren't suggesting being up against the cap means you have the talent to win. Or perhaps you're suggesting the Giants had a talented team last year?
2015 Giants were a 9/10 win team on paper last year. That was before they lost their starting LT, #2 WR, 4 safeties, #2 corner, best DT, and their best player on D blew his hand off on the 4th of July. Clearly Reese's fault.
They went 6-10. Losing 5 games in final 2 minutes. 4 man RB rotation, the Beckham incident. Not a stretch to say TC cost us 2 games last year.
It's not a stretch to say they wouldn't have been in any of those games with lesser coaching.
I'm guessing you clowns wanted him gone before each SB season too.
Here's a newsflash, Coughlin is gone. I'm sure after the 1st loss you'll be calling for McAdoos head.
Want to silence someone that disagrees with you on an issue. Call them a racist, a homophob, a religious nut, etc.
My god man I never said racism was THE reason behind much of the criticism. I said it was PART of the backlash.
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In comment 13050017 AP in Halfmoon said:
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In comment 13049944 David in LA said:
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why did we suck all the other years?
Horrendous talent due to injuries and bad picks. I hope you aren't suggesting being up against the cap means you have the talent to win. Or perhaps you're suggesting the Giants had a talented team last year?
2015 Giants were a 9/10 win team on paper last year. That was before they lost their starting LT, #2 WR, 4 safeties, #2 corner, best DT, and their best player on D blew his hand off on the 4th of July. Clearly Reese's fault.
They went 6-10. Losing 5 games in final 2 minutes. 4 man RB rotation, the Beckham incident. Not a stretch to say TC cost us 2 games last year.
It's not a stretch to say they wouldn't have been in any of those games with lesser coaching.
I'm guessing you clowns wanted him gone before each SB season too.
Here's a newsflash, Coughlin is gone. I'm sure after the 1st loss you'll be calling for McAdoos head.
So your theory is that Coughlin's coaching got them to 6-10, he was unjustly fired, then not hired buy any other NFL team?
Is that what you're saying?
^^^ exactly. I honestly have not come across ANY nagative Reese comments in this forum that to me were racist. We are rooting for a team where more than half of the players are black. Many of those players are criticized and nobody screams racism there.... because there is nothing to see. Results are color blind
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On Reese is absolutely ridiculous. If you said to me that there are fans that have made dumb statements and unfair criticism of Reese, I would agree with you 100%, the Giants have done pretty good since he has been GM, he has had some bad drafts but they all have bad drafts, it may be unfair, but it is not due to race at all. Fans are colored blind, they just care about their team winning and really nothing else.
^^^ exactly. I honestly have not come across ANY nagative Reese comments in this forum that to me were racist. We are rooting for a team where more than half of the players are black. Many of those players are criticized and nobody screams racism there.... because there is nothing to see. Results are color blind
Well... according to at least a poster on here he was an affirmative action hire. So that's pretty racist. No?
And there are older Giants fans who claimed to never like him and attributed all success of the SBs to Coughlin and developing players. Yet they don't want to kill him when players are not developed properly. So ... I'm not sure if that's 'are you a racist' litmus test.
Some of it has to do with the fact that a lot of fans can't see pass Coughlin and Eli. The whole "oh TC and Eli won us two super bowls and oh yeah the rest of those guys helped a little" attitude could be a factor.
What stupid stupid "reasoning". The Giants have been awful the past three years and had awful talent and you think racism is why their GM gets criticized? Jesus.
Again, the only idiocy is those not willing to place blame at the person assembling talent for a team with 3 straight losing seasons despite an in his prime borderline HOF QB. Yes, that includes you.
The 2013 draft has 2 starters (Pugh, Hankins); a failed headcase 3rd rounder in Damontre Moore; a 5th rounder Cooper Taylor who might just finally put it all together this year, and later 7th round picks OG Herman (sucked) and RB Cox (sucked) but how many 7th rounders make it. Had we picked better in the 3rd round we'd have had a great draft. It was n't a bad draft as we have backup QB Nassib as well.
The 2014 draft has WR Beckham and OC Richburg, both of whom are among the top 5 at their respective positions in all the NFL. DT Bromley has flashed some and this camp will show his value....or not.
RB Williams has flashed but was maybe mis-used last year. I think he puts it together this year and bulls his way to better numbers and becomes reliable.
S N. Behr will not only make the team but he'll be the third safety and play dime defenses plus all the special teams. He is a hard hitting safety.
LB Kennard, if healthy, will feed off the two DE's and have 8+ sacks as a blitzer and he already is above average against the run. He just has to stay healthy.
S B. Jackson - he may stick as D. Thompson's backup or be placed on the PS as I believe he is eligible. Big question is can he be a nickel CB upgrade over CB Wade and CB Jenkins who may not be cut out for nickel?
I think by the time we get through the first quarter of the season we will seee that 2014 was a hell of a draft.
The 2015 draft "potential" as LT Flowers, S Collins both started though they didn't exactly "shine". DE OWA flashed in limited snaps but he was hurt. S M. Thompson tore his achilles and never had a chance though he did look good in camp. Looks like he has healed and is practicing this year.
WR G. Davis received off-season praise from Eli and that is a good sign for his future. OG / RT B. Hart worked hard during the off-season and hopefully he shows he belongs and can be capable of taking over OG or RT next year as a starter should Newhouse / Jerry leave as UFA's.
And I love our 2016 draft. I just do. Yes, they have played or finished camp but I feel really good about this draft.
As a "pre-camp optimist" and lay evaluator (mediocre at best...) I do believe our drafts have improved these last 3 years. But that is more gut instincts than direct evaluation, quality evaluation. Only the Giants know what they have and likely they too "hope" as much as I do that a kid works HARD and moves up the depth chart.
This is the camp that DT Bromley (bone spurs PUP list for now...) must show he can step up and be a starter, a capable guy, cause if he can't be a starter we likely wasted a top 3 pick. He did flash a little last year so hopefully he does more this camp. Same for S. Bennett Jackson who flashed in camp last year then th ACL went.