Heads up -- WFAN is at NYG camp today (Beningo Roberts)

In comment 13049934 joeinpa said:

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Always has, always will. But to say racism is the reason behind much of the Reese criticisms is over the top and one more example of how easily this word is thrown at people in today's world. Want to silence someone that disagrees with you on an issue. Call them a racist, a homophob, a religious nut, etc.

My god man I never said racism was THE reason behind much of the criticism. I said it was PART of the backlash.

In comment 13050051 AP in Halfmoon said:

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In comment 13050026 drkenneth said: Quote: In comment 13050017 AP in Halfmoon said: Quote: In comment 13049944 David in LA said: Quote: why did we suck all the other years? Horrendous talent due to injuries and bad picks. I hope you aren't suggesting being up against the cap means you have the talent to win. Or perhaps you're suggesting the Giants had a talented team last year? 2015 Giants were a 9/10 win team on paper last year. That was before they lost their starting LT, #2 WR, 4 safeties, #2 corner, best DT, and their best player on D blew his hand off on the 4th of July. Clearly Reese's fault. They went 6-10. Losing 5 games in final 2 minutes. 4 man RB rotation, the Beckham incident. Not a stretch to say TC cost us 2 games last year. It's not a stretch to say they wouldn't have been in any of those games with lesser coaching. I'm guessing you clowns wanted him gone before each SB season too. Here's a newsflash, Coughlin is gone. I'm sure after the 1st loss you'll be calling for McAdoos head.

So your theory is that Coughlin's coaching got them to 6-10, he was unjustly fired, then not hired buy any other NFL team?

Is that what you're saying?

In comment 13049839 PaulN said:

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On Reese is absolutely ridiculous. If you said to me that there are fans that have made dumb statements and unfair criticism of Reese, I would agree with you 100%, the Giants have done pretty good since he has been GM, he has had some bad drafts but they all have bad drafts, it may be unfair, but it is not due to race at all. Fans are colored blind, they just care about their team winning and really nothing else.

^^^ exactly. I honestly have not come across ANY nagative Reese comments in this forum that to me were racist. We are rooting for a team where more than half of the players are black. Many of those players are criticized and nobody screams racism there.... because there is nothing to see. Results are color blind

That featured Reese's face on a 1970's style pimp outfit. The thread was deleted because of that photo. I feel like we've been pretty respectful of any racial component when it comes to reese. THere are legitimate criticisms to make with him, after all. He's not great with the media, he has thin skin, and though we do not 100% know who is responsible, a lot of his draft picks have not worked out, leading to a serious lack of young depth. There's enough legitimate discussion there that race doesn't even need to be part of it if you wanted to make the argument that somehow he was unfit or undeserving of the job.

In comment 13050061 EricJ said:

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In comment 13049839 PaulN said: Quote: On Reese is absolutely ridiculous. If you said to me that there are fans that have made dumb statements and unfair criticism of Reese, I would agree with you 100%, the Giants have done pretty good since he has been GM, he has had some bad drafts but they all have bad drafts, it may be unfair, but it is not due to race at all. Fans are colored blind, they just care about their team winning and really nothing else. ^^^ exactly. I honestly have not come across ANY nagative Reese comments in this forum that to me were racist. We are rooting for a team where more than half of the players are black. Many of those players are criticized and nobody screams racism there.... because there is nothing to see. Results are color blind

Well... according to at least a poster on here he was an affirmative action hire. So that's pretty racist. No?

And there are older Giants fans who claimed to never like him and attributed all success of the SBs to Coughlin and developing players. Yet they don't want to kill him when players are not developed properly. So ... I'm not sure if that's 'are you a racist' litmus test.

Some of it has to do with the fact that a lot of fans can't see pass Coughlin and Eli. The whole "oh TC and Eli won us two super bowls and oh yeah the rest of those guys helped a little" attitude could be a factor.

when everyone says you need to give draft picks 4 years before evaluating them. Or is that only when they're bad?

especially after the Eli trade.

In comment 13049433 djm said:

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some of the hatred and venom directed at Reese from many fans is sketchy to say the least. Don't tell me his race doesn't play a part. It most certainly does. I'm not naive enough to believe it doesn't.

What stupid stupid "reasoning". The Giants have been awful the past three years and had awful talent and you think racism is why their GM gets criticized? Jesus.

In comment 13049893 Randy in CT said:

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that idiocy might Trump race here.

Again, the only idiocy is those not willing to place blame at the person assembling talent for a team with 3 straight losing seasons despite an in his prime borderline HOF QB. Yes, that includes you.

In comment 13050172 chris r said:

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when everyone says you need to give draft picks 4 years before evaluating them. Or is that only when they're bad?

I think the general rule of thumb is after 3 years you can evaluate a draft thoroughly. But four years is better of course since all draftees are yours for 4 years at least, unless cut of course.

The 2013 draft has 2 starters (Pugh, Hankins); a failed headcase 3rd rounder in Damontre Moore; a 5th rounder Cooper Taylor who might just finally put it all together this year, and later 7th round picks OG Herman (sucked) and RB Cox (sucked) but how many 7th rounders make it. Had we picked better in the 3rd round we'd have had a great draft. It was n't a bad draft as we have backup QB Nassib as well.

The 2014 draft has WR Beckham and OC Richburg, both of whom are among the top 5 at their respective positions in all the NFL. DT Bromley has flashed some and this camp will show his value....or not.

RB Williams has flashed but was maybe mis-used last year. I think he puts it together this year and bulls his way to better numbers and becomes reliable.

S N. Behr will not only make the team but he'll be the third safety and play dime defenses plus all the special teams. He is a hard hitting safety.

LB Kennard, if healthy, will feed off the two DE's and have 8+ sacks as a blitzer and he already is above average against the run. He just has to stay healthy.

S B. Jackson - he may stick as D. Thompson's backup or be placed on the PS as I believe he is eligible. Big question is can he be a nickel CB upgrade over CB Wade and CB Jenkins who may not be cut out for nickel?

I think by the time we get through the first quarter of the season we will seee that 2014 was a hell of a draft.

The 2015 draft "potential" as LT Flowers, S Collins both started though they didn't exactly "shine". DE OWA flashed in limited snaps but he was hurt. S M. Thompson tore his achilles and never had a chance though he did look good in camp. Looks like he has healed and is practicing this year.

WR G. Davis received off-season praise from Eli and that is a good sign for his future. OG / RT B. Hart worked hard during the off-season and hopefully he shows he belongs and can be capable of taking over OG or RT next year as a starter should Newhouse / Jerry leave as UFA's.

And I love our 2016 draft. I just do. Yes, they have played or finished camp but I feel really good about this draft.

that can be evaluated over the past three years. So saying Reese has drafted well over the past 3 years seems to contradict the patience patience mantra when evaluating players. It works both ways. Players can start their careers strongly and fade.

In comment 13050179 chris r said:

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that can be evaluated over the past three years. So saying Reese has drafted well over the past 3 years seems to contradict the patience patience mantra when evaluating players. It works both ways. Players can start their careers strongly and fade.

Quite true. Sometimes young guys flash early, you think they'll improve, but they don't.

As a "pre-camp optimist" and lay evaluator (mediocre at best...) I do believe our drafts have improved these last 3 years. But that is more gut instincts than direct evaluation, quality evaluation. Only the Giants know what they have and likely they too "hope" as much as I do that a kid works HARD and moves up the depth chart.

This is the camp that DT Bromley (bone spurs PUP list for now...) must show he can step up and be a starter, a capable guy, cause if he can't be a starter we likely wasted a top 3 pick. He did flash a little last year so hopefully he does more this camp. Same for S. Bennett Jackson who flashed in camp last year then th ACL went.