he can stay healthy, and I didn't trust a Trevin Wade
for the record. I don't think they felt comfortable with
the Apple of your eye playing the slot. You don't sign a
Jenkins to a big contract to play the slot, not how it works
in the NFL.
a torn Achilles in 2013. He kind of goes against the grain of what they are trying to do (i.e. younger and healthier). I agree with most that he's coming in to let Apple ease into his role.
Not complaining. It's a good signing but CB will still be a need in the future. They will be down to Jenkins and Apple in a year or two IMHO.
I would think we would have drafted replacements in a few years
there were plenty of this type signings during Coughlin's tenure. lots of them. the problem is that they rarely worked out. to be fair, some did work out.
only time will tell whether this works out or is just part of the general trend.
this year is an exceedingly high expenditure, but the idea that TC never had any money to spend is baloney. he brought in big ticket players and moderate ticket players and low cost ticket players. some of each worked. a lot of each didn't. anyone who thinks TC (and the relevant position coaches) weren't involved in the acquisition process please see me about a slightly used bridge.
for most of TC's tenure here, weren't we mostly up against the cap? Sure he brought in guys, but perhaps not the guys he would have wanted here for just a few million more. It didn't work out, but we could have signed any of the OTs we interviewed if they wanted to be here or possibly play ORT. We never could have done that even at the 2nd tier level, when we were strangled by the cap. This year, for example, we made huge monetary signings and STILL had plenty left over to sign whoever we wanted to, imv..
Our huge FA signings under TC didn't leave all that much around for quality depth, imo
we were under the gun for some of his tenure. but usually, we had enough to make a big ticket FA almost every year. we had enough to bring in some medium ticket FA.
The last several years of his tenure, especially, we weren't rolling in dough, but we weren't starving street urchins, either. in the early years, he had a lot of swing and a miss on players of all tiers, which was part of why they were cap strapped during the middle years (they borrowed a lot of money in restructures during the early mid years which then compounded the problem).
You get what you pay for when it comes to guys who have been around as long as Hall. And I'm guessing that when they say "up to $2M" it means that a chunk of that $2M comes in the form of snap count. It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't even make the 53 man roster or if he starts the year at the bottom of the DB depth chart. When a vet CB languishes for as long as he did in free agency and then signs for a pittance, it's not because he was biding his time looking for the right situation.
owes a lot to not being able to draft worth a darn. resigning a draftee is the same as bringing in a FA, IMO. when you don't have to resign your drafted players, it opens up a lot of money.
for most of TC's tenure here, weren't we mostly up against the cap? Sure he brought in guys, but perhaps not the guys he would have wanted here for just a few million more. It didn't work out, but we could have signed any of the OTs we interviewed if they wanted to be here or possibly play ORT. We never could have done that even at the 2nd tier level, when we were strangled by the cap. This year, for example, we made huge monetary signings and STILL had plenty left over to sign whoever we wanted to, imv..
Our huge FA signings under TC didn't leave all that much around for quality depth, imo
Agree? Disagree? I miss Albany
During Coughlin's tenure they made Kareem McKenzie the highest paid RT in the league. At the same time they signed Plaxico Burress and Antonio Pierce.
They didn't exactly break the bank to re-sign Shaun O'Hara, but thanks to Andre Gurode they had to put a big dent in it. When O'Hara retired, they give David Baas a very nice contract. Luckily, they didn't have to do the same to keep David Diehl in the fold.
They made Antrel Rolle the highest paid safety in the league, and at the same time they shelled out big bucks for Chris Canty and Michael Boley.
That's just a few of the bigger names off the top of my head.
assistant to the NFL director of operations must be shaking his head yet again when he hears this news. So went the days when the latest acquisition was named Mike Harris or Chiquie Brown. Unlike quite a few of the veteran Giants on the current roster, Hall has been on teams that win ball games. He's a zone-oriented corner, which makes him a nice complement to the other three who are basically man covers. The DC likes to camouflage his Three-Deep and make believe he is in 2 and vice versa so Leon's dexterity and overall brightness will be a welcome addition.
for most of TC's tenure here, weren't we mostly up against the cap? Sure he brought in guys, but perhaps not the guys he would have wanted here for just a few million more. It didn't work out, but we could have signed any of the OTs we interviewed if they wanted to be here or possibly play ORT. We never could have done that even at the 2nd tier level, when we were strangled by the cap. This year, for example, we made huge monetary signings and STILL had plenty left over to sign whoever we wanted to, imv..
Our huge FA signings under TC didn't leave all that much around for quality depth, imo
Agree? Disagree? I miss Albany
During Coughlin's tenure they made Kareem McKenzie the highest paid RT in the league. At the same time they signed Plaxico Burress and Antonio Pierce.
They didn't exactly break the bank to re-sign Shaun O'Hara, but thanks to Andre Gurode they had to put a big dent in it. When O'Hara retired, they give David Baas a very nice contract. Luckily, they didn't have to do the same to keep David Diehl in the fold.
They made Antrel Rolle the highest paid safety in the league, and at the same time they shelled out big bucks for Chris Canty and Michael Boley.
That's just a few of the bigger names off the top of my head.
True. But my point was after most of those signings, we were then choking against the cap with no real chance to sign the quality depth WE CAN NOW if we so choose. Yes? No?
there were plenty of this type signings during Coughlin's tenure. lots of them. the problem is that they rarely worked out. to be fair, some did work out.
only time will tell whether this works out or is just part of the general trend.
this year is an exceedingly high expenditure, but the idea that TC never had any money to spend is baloney. he brought in big ticket players and moderate ticket players and low cost ticket players. some of each worked. a lot of each didn't. anyone who thinks TC (and the relevant position coaches) weren't involved in the acquisition process please see me about a slightly used bridge.
fkap. I meant recently. I know they made many big FA signings during TC tenure overall.
You would hope that the bulk of your quality depth would come from your later-round draftees, UDFAs, and the like. That's one area where the Giants have consistently missed the mark in recent years. Some of their lower profile UFA signings have worked out...kind of, like Sean Locklear, but quite a few haven't...some safeties come to mind...and a guy like Shaun Andrews who just couldn't stay healthy.
a lot of the players in the list were returning FA, some of them coming in.
As I recall, a lot of them were minimum wage, but a lot of them got middle class dollars, and one or two were 1%ers.
but, most importantly, 2 years later, most of them are no longer on the team. that's a class where there was a moderate amount spent, and not much return on the investment. it's part of the reason TC is no longer on the team. here's the 2014 FA - ( New Window )
Where he's technically a CB playing inside and they'll deploy him to cover pass catching TEs. Similar to Grant a few years ago. Spags loves that CB/S hybrid.
Exactly. You need at least 4 starting-quality CB's, you need at least 7 starting-quality OL.
I look at 2007, and am still amazed that we came out of that trainwreck with excellent corner play in the playoffs. Webster was riding the bench that year, injuries got him back on the field.
Where he's technically a CB playing inside and they'll deploy him to cover pass catching TEs. Similar to Grant a few years ago. Spags loves that CB/S hybrid.
You are right I think Hall will play a very similar role to the one that Deon Grant and Antrel Rolle played. Hall will see a lot of time at safety in nickel and dime packages. I think Landon Collins will also be lined up as a LB/S in the same packages.
Where he's technically a CB playing inside and they'll deploy him to cover pass catching TEs. Similar to Grant a few years ago. Spags loves that CB/S hybrid.
Could pay huge dividends against Witten and Jordan Reed
...at that price it's a no brainer. A very young and inexperienced secondary(Collins 2nd year, Apple/both Thompsons essentially rookies), Berhe and Bennett(still cutting their teeth) gets another veteran presence to lean on.
Where he's technically a CB playing inside and they'll deploy him to cover pass catching TEs. Similar to Grant a few years ago. Spags loves that CB/S hybrid.
Could pay huge dividends against Witten and Jordan Reed
Interesting, I always thought of a nickel corner as the guy who covers the interior slot receiver. I guess that could be a TE / Hback but more likely a 3rd wideout. If Hall can contain the middle of the field for us and our starting corners handle the outside exceptionally we are a much better defense overnight.
We need HALL to flourish at nickel; for MLB K. Robinson to be superb in coverage; and, just stay healthy please!
owes a lot to not being able to draft worth a darn. resigning a draftee is the same as bringing in a FA, IMO. when you don't have to resign your drafted playersy.
Bingo
The draft choices never earned that 2nd or third contract so the money is plenty.
Here's a note from Jordan Raanan's practice report: Â
The Giants ran more than a few plays with cornerbacks Janoris Jenkins, Eli Apple, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Trevin Wade on the field together, along with safeties Landon Collins and Darian Thompson. With the Giants now strong at cornerback (especially after signing veteran Leon Hall), this could take the place of the three-safety looks they have favored for years. It’s probably not a coincidence that they put four cornerbacks on the field at the same time this summer before three safeties.
Of the five players listed, ask yourself who Leon Hall is going to replace. If your answer is not Trevin Wade, I'd say you were wrong.
And if they do go with three safeties and one of them is Hall, that's fine, but the other two will most likely be Thompson and Collins again.
On passing downs, for sure. Landon Collins would need to show a lot improvement against the pass this camp and early season to make me change my opinion on that move!
Landon Collins was horrible in coverage last year along with everyone else not named DRC.
There is a reason the team has never had a rookie start all 16 games at the position before. But of course, the book is written, courtesy of BBI publishing.
On passing downs, for sure. Landon Collins would need to show a lot improvement against the pass this camp and early season to make me change my opinion on that move!
Landon Collins was horrible in coverage last year along with everyone else not named DRC.
Your opinion will change the first time one of the beats says something nice about Collins.
My guess is Hall has been brought in to help mentor the young Â
safties and DBs on this roster as much as anything else. À la Madison and Grant. He's still better than any nickel CB right now on the roster if he can stay healthy.
ChiMarty - now by far the biggest need is a solid right side OL to bump Newhouse to the bench. Far more than another DB.
You do realize Collins was playing out of position last year as a FS. Coverage has never been his strong suit bur perhaps having to play it last year made him a better overall player in the long run. Playing SS this season & having a FS next to him in Thompson(I'll be surprised if it's anyone else) who runs the back 4 is only going to make him that much better
for the record. I don't think they felt comfortable with
the Apple of your eye playing the slot. You don't sign a
Jenkins to a big contract to play the slot, not how it works
in the NFL.
Not complaining. It's a good signing but CB will still be a need in the future. They will be down to Jenkins and Apple in a year or two IMHO.
I would think we would have drafted replacements in a few years
Indeed I am. As you know, I left BBI last night after having posted he left the building without a contract..What a terrific surprise
I smiled when I saw your handle. I knew you'd love this..:)
only time will tell whether this works out or is just part of the general trend.
this year is an exceedingly high expenditure, but the idea that TC never had any money to spend is baloney. he brought in big ticket players and moderate ticket players and low cost ticket players. some of each worked. a lot of each didn't. anyone who thinks TC (and the relevant position coaches) weren't involved in the acquisition process please see me about a slightly used bridge.
Our huge FA signings under TC didn't leave all that much around for quality depth, imo
Agree? Disagree? I miss Albany
The last several years of his tenure, especially, we weren't rolling in dough, but we weren't starving street urchins, either. in the early years, he had a lot of swing and a miss on players of all tiers, which was part of why they were cap strapped during the middle years (they borrowed a lot of money in restructures during the early mid years which then compounded the problem).
Our huge FA signings under TC didn't leave all that much around for quality depth, imo
Agree? Disagree? I miss Albany
During Coughlin's tenure they made Kareem McKenzie the highest paid RT in the league. At the same time they signed Plaxico Burress and Antonio Pierce.
They didn't exactly break the bank to re-sign Shaun O'Hara, but thanks to Andre Gurode they had to put a big dent in it. When O'Hara retired, they give David Baas a very nice contract. Luckily, they didn't have to do the same to keep David Diehl in the fold.
They made Antrel Rolle the highest paid safety in the league, and at the same time they shelled out big bucks for Chris Canty and Michael Boley.
That's just a few of the bigger names off the top of my head.
Quote:
for most of TC's tenure here, weren't we mostly up against the cap? Sure he brought in guys, but perhaps not the guys he would have wanted here for just a few million more. It didn't work out, but we could have signed any of the OTs we interviewed if they wanted to be here or possibly play ORT. We never could have done that even at the 2nd tier level, when we were strangled by the cap. This year, for example, we made huge monetary signings and STILL had plenty left over to sign whoever we wanted to, imv..
Our huge FA signings under TC didn't leave all that much around for quality depth, imo
Agree? Disagree? I miss Albany
During Coughlin's tenure they made Kareem McKenzie the highest paid RT in the league. At the same time they signed Plaxico Burress and Antonio Pierce.
They didn't exactly break the bank to re-sign Shaun O'Hara, but thanks to Andre Gurode they had to put a big dent in it. When O'Hara retired, they give David Baas a very nice contract. Luckily, they didn't have to do the same to keep David Diehl in the fold.
They made Antrel Rolle the highest paid safety in the league, and at the same time they shelled out big bucks for Chris Canty and Michael Boley.
That's just a few of the bigger names off the top of my head.
True. But my point was after most of those signings, we were then choking against the cap with no real chance to sign the quality depth WE CAN NOW if we so choose. Yes? No?
only time will tell whether this works out or is just part of the general trend.
this year is an exceedingly high expenditure, but the idea that TC never had any money to spend is baloney. he brought in big ticket players and moderate ticket players and low cost ticket players. some of each worked. a lot of each didn't. anyone who thinks TC (and the relevant position coaches) weren't involved in the acquisition process please see me about a slightly used bridge.
fkap. I meant recently. I know they made many big FA signings during TC tenure overall.
*sigh*
You don't draft for today; You draft for tomorrow. CB is a premium position.
When DRC is gone Apple won't be a "wasted pick".
Are you actually this dumb?
As I recall, a lot of them were minimum wage, but a lot of them got middle class dollars, and one or two were 1%ers.
but, most importantly, 2 years later, most of them are no longer on the team. that's a class where there was a moderate amount spent, and not much return on the investment. it's part of the reason TC is no longer on the team.
here's the 2014 FA - ( New Window )
He's a physical player. He can play that position this season for Giants.
He's a physical player. He can play that position this season for Giants.
Thats what I'm hoping.
Spags said Hall will begin playing inside at CB. #GiantsCamp
I look at 2007, and am still amazed that we came out of that trainwreck with excellent corner play in the playoffs. Webster was riding the bench that year, injuries got him back on the field.
You are right I think Hall will play a very similar role to the one that Deon Grant and Antrel Rolle played. Hall will see a lot of time at safety in nickel and dime packages. I think Landon Collins will also be lined up as a LB/S in the same packages.
It was. But Spags Part I deployed that hybrid guy too. Grant just stands out because he was really really good in that role.
Quote:
Regardless, I thought the idea was to send Trevin Wade to the bench, not Darian Thompson.
It was. But Spags Part I deployed that hybrid guy too. Grant just stands out because he was really really good in that role.
Who did Spags use in that role, McQuarters? He was about the same size as Hall.
Could pay huge dividends against Witten and Jordan Reed
Quote:
In comment 13057479 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Regardless, I thought the idea was to send Trevin Wade to the bench, not Darian Thompson.
It was. But Spags Part I deployed that hybrid guy too. Grant just stands out because he was really really good in that role.
Who did Spags use in that role, McQuarters? He was about the same size as Hall.
McQuarters and Dockery.
Quote:
In comment 13057498 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In comment 13057479 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Regardless, I thought the idea was to send Trevin Wade to the bench, not Darian Thompson.
It was. But Spags Part I deployed that hybrid guy too. Grant just stands out because he was really really good in that role.
Who did Spags use in that role, McQuarters? He was about the same size as Hall.
McQuarters and Dockery.
That can't be right. I was told by a very credible insider source that Spags likes big people in that role, like Ross and T2.
Quote:
Where he's technically a CB playing inside and they'll deploy him to cover pass catching TEs. Similar to Grant a few years ago. Spags loves that CB/S hybrid.
Could pay huge dividends against Witten and Jordan Reed
We need HALL to flourish at nickel; for MLB K. Robinson to be superb in coverage; and, just stay healthy please!
Long yardage and I think maybe we see more of this - some dime stuff with one backer, slot receiver and TE both pressed.
Bingo
The draft choices never earned that 2nd or third contract so the money is plenty.
The Giants ran more than a few plays with cornerbacks Janoris Jenkins, Eli Apple, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Trevin Wade on the field together, along with safeties Landon Collins and Darian Thompson. With the Giants now strong at cornerback (especially after signing veteran Leon Hall), this could take the place of the three-safety looks they have favored for years. It’s probably not a coincidence that they put four cornerbacks on the field at the same time this summer before three safeties.
Of the five players listed, ask yourself who Leon Hall is going to replace. If your answer is not Trevin Wade, I'd say you were wrong.
And if they do go with three safeties and one of them is Hall, that's fine, but the other two will most likely be Thompson and Collins again.
Landon Collins was horrible in coverage last year along with everyone else not named DRC.
So who's your third safety? Thompson, Hall, and ?
Quote:
with Hall in a NY minute
On passing downs, for sure. Landon Collins would need to show a lot improvement against the pass this camp and early season to make me change my opinion on that move!
Landon Collins was horrible in coverage last year along with everyone else not named DRC.
Your opinion will change the first time one of the beats says something nice about Collins.
ChiMarty - now by far the biggest need is a solid right side OL to bump Newhouse to the bench. Far more than another DB.
You do realize Collins was playing out of position last year as a FS. Coverage has never been his strong suit bur perhaps having to play it last year made him a better overall player in the long run. Playing SS this season & having a FS next to him in Thompson(I'll be surprised if it's anyone else) who runs the back 4 is only going to make him that much better