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What if Cruz is only the eighth or ninth best wr on the roster?

ChicagoMarty : 8/4/2016 5:35 pm
Yes I know it is still real early and yes I know Cruz has more experience than many. And yes I am aware of how hard Cruz has worked and what a wonderful and moving story his comeback is...

But do we really want to take a chance on losing one of the young wrs that are shining right now?

Tavarres King

Roger Lewis

Darius Powe


These are the guys I'm talking about. They are making plays and competing hard. Will it be for naught?

Beckam, Shepherd, Harris are likely locks for obvious reasons

But is Cruz a Lock?

Myles White may be the fastest player on the team and now has a full year in the system under his belt. Could be a tough cut under any circumstance

Geremy Davis has been making plays. A late round draft choice but still a draft choice and you know how JR hates cutting draft choices. Davis has some height and could be a nice red zone target. Another tough cut...

Sure we might get lucky and cut one or two of the above noted non locks but wouldn't you hate to see one of the young guys picked up by another team and really shine?

Cruz could still shake off the rust and start making some plays but is it too soon to start wondering about what needs to be done if he doesn't?
If we have to cut him, you're doing it.  
Klaatu : 8/4/2016 5:37 pm : link
.....
As you said Marty, it's really early.  
Big Blue '56 : 8/4/2016 5:41 pm : link
Not sure I agree that anyone's shining at this point given there's been no contact, full pad workouts, etc..Let's see how they look during the actual pre-season games and even then, their snaps will be rather limited..

Cruz is a known commodity re route-running, taking hits and so on..Obviously the big question is, what has he lost?
If Cruz is only 8th or 9th best WR on roster  
Jimmy Googs : 8/4/2016 5:42 pm : link
then we should have the greatest collection of receivers in the history of the NFL.

somehow I think he will "sneak on" the roster Marty...
If we have to cut him  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 8/4/2016 5:42 pm : link
Hopefully he understands that it is time to retire. Because if he is the real Cruz, he doesn't get cut. But if he physically can't perform, then it is not going to make any difference to go and try and play for someone else.
If a healthy Cruz is the 8th or 9th best WR on roster...  
kinard : 8/4/2016 5:43 pm : link
...we should all be ordering our Super Bowl tickets now.

I know that he hasn't played in a couple years but its easy to forget what an outstanding player he was. If he can come back to 85% of that player (especially if Sheppard is the real deal) he's probably the fourth best receiver (at worst) on the roster and will be an invaluable asset to the team.
With the talent they have at the position right now,  
Mark C : 8/4/2016 5:46 pm : link
I think Harris will go back to being basically a full-time special teamer. He's a serious threat as a returner, and I'd think they'd want him there instead of trying to stretch him into a #3 WR, as they did out of necessity last season.

As for Cruz, unless he's still injured, I think his floor on the team at this point is as a slot receiver exclusively. He's been hurt, he hasn't forgotten how to play football. No way this roster has seven or eight WRs better than him, unless he simply can't run anymore.
💍  
rdt288 : 8/4/2016 5:54 pm : link
5th
If he's the 8th best WR on the roster  
Old Dirty Beckham : 8/4/2016 5:55 pm : link
it's because he's finished not because the other guys are any good.

Outside of the top four "names" the odds of the other guys being anything other than generic camp fodder are pretty slim.
What if Cruz is the best WR on the roster?  
Milton : 8/4/2016 5:57 pm : link
Let's say his speed and quickness return--as does the mental telepathy he has with Eli--and come February we hear Belichick barking "this is a Cruz and OBJ game" on the sideline.
Cruz  
NJLCO : 8/4/2016 6:00 pm : link
If his health is not in question and he can not perform at the level of these other guys I believe Mac will cut him. We can't get caught with assuming the guys going to come around...he has until the first week in September to prove he stays. This is a business first and the G Men owe us fans the best product on the field each Sunday.
RE: If he's the 8th best WR on the roster  
Jimmy Googs : 8/4/2016 6:02 pm : link
In comment 13057805 Old Dirty Beckham said:
Quote:
it's because he's finished not because the other guys are any good.

Outside of the top four "names" the odds of the other guys being anything other than generic camp fodder are pretty slim.


Some of those guys should turn into more than just camp fodder. There is some talent there...just need playing time and targets.
Wasn't  
mitch300 : 8/4/2016 6:11 pm : link
Cruz pretty much camp fodder when he was signed. You never who emerges as the next "Cruz"
If he's the 8th or 9th best receiver on the....  
Crispino : 8/4/2016 6:29 pm : link
roster he's gonna get cut. Pretty simple.
"The Giants are really going to regret letting David Douglas go"  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/4/2016 6:30 pm : link
Guys, don't fall into the trap of drooling over 11 on 11 stars. Let's at least watch the preseason games.
Ok, I'll play with "worst case scenario" moves on Cruz  
SGMen : 8/4/2016 6:31 pm : link
If WR Victor Cruz clearly has lost a step; has clearly lost the ability to separate even in short areas; well, the Giants will cut him under McAdoo and wish him the BEST. Some team will pick him up and try him but the Giants will know by the end of camp, if not sooner, what they have in him.

If he is cut, we'll search the waiver wire for a veteran replacement.

Locks if Cruz is cut: OBJ, Shepard, Davis, Harris, ??? (I think the best veteran plus a youngster like Myles White who at least has experience). Or maybe the Giants keep just White as the 5th and see how things go as the season moves along?

But it would suck if Cruz didn't make it back 99%.
If his ship has sailed  
xman : 8/4/2016 6:36 pm : link
you move on. This is a business not a love story.
How many Corey Washingtons  
section125 : 8/4/2016 6:37 pm : link
have we had?

If Cruz is healthy, he's making the team. He is a known commodity.

Now if he truly is #8 or #9 we eat a big number and walk away.
Marty for a guy of your perception this is a pretty weak post.  
BlueLou : 8/4/2016 6:43 pm : link
Way too early.

Almost surely one at least of these "7 or 8" guys "better than Cruz" will end up on IR.

Cruz minus half a step is still Steve Smith Jr and a valuable possession WR.

Even if Cruz falls all the way to the 7th best WR among them, his experience and value to "the room" earns him a spot in the roster over guy #6.

Old Dirty Beckham dumb post. By now it's pretty clear the guys clamoring for the last one or two WR slots aren't the typical roster filler types that would simply be "lucky to make any team's 53."

Tavarres King was in fact a 5th round draft pick. Myles White was a small school project lark for GB, but was hand picked by Mac for the Giants and has top end speed, not to mention familiarity with Mac's O. Roger Lewis would have been drafted in the middle rounds if not for his stumble (in high school!) with the law AND a poor combine that didn't confirm his pretty clear "on the field" speed seen over and over on his college tape.
RE: If his ship has sailed  
Boy Cord : 8/4/2016 6:55 pm : link
In comment 13057873 xman said:
Quote:
you move on. This is a business not a love story.


LOFL!! I'm stealing that line.
I love the time of year when players look terrible in pre-season  
Larry in Pencilvania : 8/4/2016 7:05 pm : link
And this place erupts like someone screwed your mother
Based on no inside info...  
hitchchops2 : 8/4/2016 7:08 pm : link
...I was told by a NFL player that he expected Cruz to retire before the season begins...this was just his opinion, he knew nothing specific about Cruz and his injury.
they gave him some good guaranteed money  
fkap : 8/4/2016 8:04 pm : link
unless he's totally shot, he's on the roster.

if he's the eighth or ninth best WR, he's totally shot and is laughing all the way to the bank while lamenting what could have been, and will not be on the roster.

next question from captain obvious?
RE: Based on no inside info...  
BlueLou : 8/4/2016 8:10 pm : link
In comment 13057905 hitchchops2 said:
Quote:
...I was told by a NFL player that he expected Cruz to retire before the season begins...this was just his opinion, he knew nothing specific about Cruz and his injury.


LOL. Methinks you kinda missed the boat on what "inside info" means.

"Inside info" from someone who knows zilch!!! Where is Fats?
if..  
tony71 : 8/4/2016 8:19 pm : link
if Cruz is that bad then he will just be cut for the second time.I mean come on..if the Jets cut him,how hard will it be for the Giants to cut him?
If Cruz stays healthy...  
Torrag : 8/4/2016 8:21 pm : link
...he's a top three receiver on this team at worst.

If he doesn't his career is likely over sooner than later.
What if, what if the Earth's gravitational field failed ....  
Manny in CA : 8/4/2016 8:26 pm : link

All of a sudden, we're all flying off it's surface into outer space (right behind the moon) !

If Cruz is done, he's gone, period (no mystery).

But, where, why, is this smelly stuff gurgling to the surface ?
Com'on  
Giants2012 : 8/4/2016 8:28 pm : link
As of today the team doesn't even have a proven #2 considering Cruz hasn't played for a long while and the others have proven pretty close to nothing.

If he's the 8th best, he still makes the 53  
YorkAveGiant : 8/4/2016 8:31 pm : link
Because at the very least, he will be a good decoy who maybe won't drop passes when he dies get open unlike last years 3 till Harris took over. The. If by week 4 he's a liability, that knee or calf might just flare up....
RE: What if, what if the Earth's gravitational field failed ....  
Giants2012 : 8/4/2016 8:35 pm : link
In comment 13057971 Manny in CA said:
Quote:

All of a sudden, we're all flying off it's surface into outer space (right behind the moon) !



Damn, i might have to buy some costume jewelry for the trip
Lmao  
est1986 : 8/4/2016 8:36 pm : link
What if Odell is only the sixth or seventh best WR on the roster? Do we cut him or is he trade bait?
Correct, inside info was the wrong phrase...  
hitchchops2 : 8/4/2016 8:47 pm : link
...but the player is on the Giants, although he admitted to hardly knowing Cruz. Would speculation be a better term?
Marty -- I love you but  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/4/2016 9:01 pm : link
the Giants do not have 8 or 9 genuine NFL receivers on board

OBJ
Shepard
Davis
Harris

are the cream

the jury is still out on Cruz

then there are the rest -- if Cruz falls into the rest then the swill at the bottom is murky -- it's really hard to judge the level of talent of the rest of these guys -- I'm not high on Myles White by the way -- but there jsut isn;t a great way to evaluate the rest of these guys - they are going up against 3rd teamers at practice
gidie  
ChicagoMarty : 8/4/2016 9:22 pm : link
And I love you too

I did not say the Jints had 8 or 9 NFL quality receivers on their current roster

I do posit the question though what if Cruz is ranked as the #8 or 9 wr on the team?

As you put it, that would put Cruz in with the swill

So then what happens?

If Cruz is rated somewhere between #5 and #8 for the purposes of this discussion what do you do with him?

Historically those wr's at the bottom of the totem pole had to be effective special teasers to make the final roster

While you may not be high on White I was under the impression that he was an effective gunner on kr

I am not clear on what ST role Lewis or Powe or the others could bring but I would think their respective athletic talent might also qualify them for a gunner role.

Can anyone at this point really see Cruz as a gunner?

How about KR?

Probably not

So while the consensus on this thread appears to be if Cruz is only #8 or #9 wr he is out, what if he is #6 or #7 and does not provide any ST role and his roster selection eliminates a young wr with tantalizing upside as the scouts like to say?
These kinds of things usually have a way of working themselves out  
steve in ky : 8/4/2016 9:27 pm : link
.
and perhaps they will  
ChicagoMarty : 8/4/2016 9:32 pm : link
the preseason games will be key obviously

But what if no one gets hurt by some miracle and more than one young guy makes some big plays while the vets chill ?

Some tough decisions coming up at wr...
What if Eli Manning is the 3rd best quarterback?  
WillieYoung : 8/4/2016 9:36 pm : link
Give me a break.
RE: Lmao  
David in LA : 8/4/2016 9:39 pm : link
In comment 13057992 est1986 said:
Quote:
What if Odell is only the sixth or seventh best WR on the roster? Do we cut him or is he trade bait?


Has Odell missed 2 seasons of football? Not remotely the same scenario here.
RE: RE: Lmao  
est1986 : 8/4/2016 10:22 pm : link
In comment 13058075 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 13057992 est1986 said:


Quote:


What if Odell is only the sixth or seventh best WR on the roster? Do we cut him or is he trade bait?



Has Odell missed 2 seasons of football? Not remotely the same scenario here.


Cruz is not going anywhere is the point...
I sort of read this post as a simple "what if Cruz doesn't have it...  
SGMen : 8/4/2016 10:33 pm : link
....anymore?" What if he loses that step and that bit of cut & explosion and so forth. In that case, does he stick as the 5th receiver or does he get cut?

Football is brutal and the Giants and new coach McAdoo will do what they must: cut Cruz with best wishes for his hard work, for his 2011 which got us to a SB in the midst of 7 seasons with but one playoff appearance.
Well, normally you would say  
Beer Man : 8/5/2016 10:43 am : link
if that is the case, he won't be on the final 53 man roster. Not sure what the cap implications are for Cruz, but that could also factor in.
RE: RE: RE: Lmao  
Giants2012 : 8/5/2016 10:48 am : link
In comment 13058126 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13058075 David in LA said:


Quote:


In comment 13057992 est1986 said:


Quote:


What if Odell is only the sixth or seventh best WR on the roster? Do we cut him or is he trade bait?



Has Odell missed 2 seasons of football? Not remotely the same scenario here.



Cruz is not going anywhere is the point...


He misses a lot
Confusing dragon..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/5/2016 10:51 am : link
with dorgan takes down many a poster, just like confusing Chicago Marty with Marty in Albany does too.

One is a guy who provides excellent camp reviews and the other one is a drooling invalid.
RE: Based on no inside info...  
RC02XX : 8/5/2016 10:55 am : link
In comment 13057905 hitchchops2 said:
Quote:
...I was told by a NFL player that he expected Cruz to retire before the season begins...this was just his opinion, he knew nothing specific about Cruz and his injury.


How is that an inside info? He has knows nothing specific about Cruz or his injury but since he's an NFL player, his opinion is inside info? Come on.
Every training camp the WRs look 'incredible'  
RobCarpenter : 8/5/2016 11:39 am : link
only to fade to obscurity.
Is that something like  
Doomster : 8/5/2016 12:11 pm : link
What if, what if the Earth's gravitational field failed ....
Manny in CA : 8/4/2016 8:26 pm : link : reply

All of a sudden, we're all flying off it's surface into outer space (right behind the moon) !

Carousel?

From the business standpoint  
OldPolack : 8/5/2016 12:42 pm : link
is his salary worth his contribution to the team?
RE: From the business standpoint  
SGMen : 8/5/2016 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13058831 OldPolack said:
Quote:
is his salary worth his contribution to the team?
I have no clue what the "cap savings" would be if Cruz was cut when we put together the 53 man rosters, but if he clearly isn't the man he once was you'd have to say "Bye and thank you so much for 2011" and pray the youth steps up.

I was first thinking we'd bring in a veteran WR to replace Cruz, a surprise cut. Now I wonder if we'd go with our youth including UDFA's like Roger Lewis or Powe or Dable?

My faith tells me to believe Cruz will come back strong and produce. We truly need him to flourish and lead this year and I believe in my heart he will do just that: be effective and worth of his salary. At least for this year. Next year is a different story.

If Cruz is a 6-700-6 type guy who just can't accelerate for longer gains anymore than you adjust accordingly. Injuries suck, they just do, and you play with the hand you are dealt.
Preseason  
Hollenb1 : 8/6/2016 2:24 pm : link
I'm still holding on to the hope that when he gets an opponent across from him, something will click. I know they say you can't practice soft and play hard, but Cruz may be that guy that needs someone in an unfamiliar Jersey to help him get his mind right. Also, is there any chance that he's going at 80℅ right now, or is he for sure going full speed?
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