At this point it appears that 4 WRs are "locks" - OBJ, Shepard, Harris and most likely Davis. Cruz is a lock if healthy, a big if we cannot answer yet. That would make 5 locks.
The front running candidates for a 6th WR roster spot (or 5th and 6th slots if Cruz doesn't make it) currently are, in any order:
Returning vets from last year's roster and practice squad Miles White and Tavarres King.
UDFA rookies Roger Lewis and Darius Powe.
At this point the other FAs and UDFAs are lagging but of course that's subject to change.
Factors to consider are:
1) Value of a 6th WR relative to other positions, ea a 5th RB, a FB, a 4th (or 5th, imo that's nuts) TE, a 10th DB, 9th OL or DL, or 7th LB.
2) Ability of said WR(s) to contribute to STs.
3) Faith in the health of Cruz.
4) Potential upside of the player making the roster vs the odds of losing said player to a waiver claim or that player being plucked from the Giants' PS later.
My guess is that they will keep a 6th WR based primarily on factors 3 & 4 above, keeping in mind also that Quinn wants Harris available for more STs snaps and guessing that Davis as well is asked to contribute to some STs.
I have no idea who among the WR candidates listed above can contribute significantly to STs play; but based on physical attributes my best pull it out of my ass guess would be Powe.
White I don't like. Fast but indifferent hands. In this offense, you need guys who don't drop balls.
Too much upside to get rid of. But that is the issue with a better quality roster.
As of now I would be surprised if they didn't keep King. He's been most impressive guy not named Odell. But you want to see them all in live action, of course.
Another guy playing well enough to stick is R Lewis. There will be tough cuts here. I should say to my eyes Harris has not stood out as much as others but should get a spot on account of specials and being a guy you already know what you have.
As of now I would be surprised if they didn't keep King. He's been most impressive guy not named Odell. But you want to see them all in live action, of course.
Another guy playing well enough to stick is R Lewis. There will be tough cuts here. I should say to my eyes Harris has not stood out as much as others but should get a spot on account of specials and being a guy you already know what you have.
Harris is a perfect #5 WR. The 1-4 WR will get the majority of the WR snaps. Harris can fill in anywhere and do a respectable job while being the main ST returner/gunner, etc.
There is no rule that says if you are doing RB by committee that it has to be a large committee. They will keep no more than 4, although another RB will be on the PS in an extended roster concept.
And again, 4 TEs + FB + Hback in an offense that likes to go 3 or even 4 wide is absurd.
...Victor Cruz will be the last -- and most painful -- camp cut.
(But he could definitely catch on as a Giants spokesperson.)
If you keep 7 where do you go light? TE? RB?? I doubt that they go light on Oline.
This is what I was thinking, primarily based on the training camp reports. However, the hype machine churns out WR training camp stars, and we haven't heard a peep out of any WRs the Giants have cut in the recent past. It will be very, very interesting to see who stays or goes and how many the Giants keep.
I assume that their careers are shortened by injuries.
RBs, WRs, CBs, in that order have the shortest careers. The breakdown is in link below.
Link - ( New Window )
Davis and Cruz (if healthy) make the roster and Powe and Lewis go to the practice squad. If any of the top 6 get injured, then Lewis probably gets the nod. Possible Powe could beat out Davis. But not likely.
Can we see the guy on the field first?
IMO the Cruz issue should have been resolved the same way the Beatty and Schwartz situation was saving them from this problem today. It's not that I want to see him not win the battle to return to the field it's just that the statement make about the other two injured players was let's move on. What we have today is player being brought along slowly still with the hope he can return to form and not have any set backs if asked to give it same the effort the other guys are daily.
As much as we all Love Cruz this latest set back sure
isn't helping .
Will keep an eye on Davis something tells me he is gonna
emerge . I said it last year as well . Sometimes size
matters and with King making noise you got Lewis Powe and
White . All have shown some skills . White is maybe the
2nd or 3rd fastest guy on the team and most likely knows
the playbook . Powe has nice size and is coming on a bit
and Lewis looks like a gamer as well .
I left out Harris who is about average as a WR but the
primary KO/Punt returner and a beast on specials .
So if you count him in 7 is definitely in the cards .
Can we see the guy on the field first?
As for whether we keep six wideouts, I believe special teams abilities will separate the best 53 along with upside potential for this season.
A guy like WR T. King could easily be the #5 wideout, our last wideout, if he can play specials. I believe the goal with WR Harris is to keep him on SPECIALS only duty if at all possible. He is one of the league's 3 best special teamers so lets use him at what he is best at.
Yeah the argument of "why didn't he step up last year?" is simple enough, but let's put it into context comparing Davis's first year to another former 6th round draft pick with a similar quality QB throwing to him: Antonio Brown in 2010.
And the Steelers' offense that year wasn't as close as the Giants in 2015 to the top of the league: they were 12th in scoring and 14th in total yards gained. So let's say they could have used more production from their WRs.
Their leading receivers were in order:
Wallace WR 60/1257/10
Ward WR 59/755/5
Miller TE 42/512/2
Sanders WR 28/376/2
Moore RB 26/205/0
Mendenhall RB 23/167/0
Randle-El WR 22/253/0
Brown WR 16/167/0
No one else caught more than 9
Giants' last year:
OBJ 96/1450/13
Vereen 59/494/4
Randle 57/797/8
Tye 42/464/3
Harris 36/396/4
Donnell 29/223/2
Jennings 29/296/1
No one else caught more than 9...
Giants top 3 WRs caught 189/2643/25
Steelers top 3 WR caught 147/~2390/17
And the Giants got a lot more production from Donnell and Tye than the Steelers got from Heath Miller.
So you could argue the Steelers "badly needed Brown to step up" his first year with even more validity than the "Giants needed Davis to step up" as a rookie.
That argument just doesn't hold water - when compared to the current consensus #1 WR in the entire league.
I assume that their careers are shortened by injuries.
RBs, WRs, CBs, in that order have the shortest careers. The breakdown is in link below. Link - ( New Window )
Thanks for that link Mary!
No doubt. And I worded that poorly...
3 should be LACK OF faith in VC's health. Even if he seems good to go or close enough to that to include him among the initial 53...
Sorry about the shit I gave you yesterday, BTW.
Your point was clear enough re marginal talent at some positions.
Sometimes I'm an asshole...
+1. MacAdoo says hes keeping the best 53. Preseason will bear it out more but all 3 of Lewis,King and Davis are more than deserving right now.
Lots of 3 and 4 WR sets next year. Rotate #4 and possibly #3 liberally based on skill set and design of play especially if Cruz is still nicked up or doesnt make it all the way back.
To me it could be a tough call. I like Harris a lot, but if Cruz becomes healthy and productive and the other receivers continue to show as much promise, I'm not sure what I'd do.
To me it could be a tough call. I like Harris a lot, but if Cruz becomes healthy and productive and the other receivers continue to show as much promise, I'm not sure what I'd do.
Harris is a lock, book it. He might not get a lot of touches as a WR but he's competent at it and he's regarded as not merely the Giants' best all around STs players but one of the entire league's best.
And he's simply a tough guy, something this team has lacked recently. For my money he is absolutely a lock. Plus, let's not anoint guys who show promise like King, Lewis, Powe etc as another VC under wraps. That guy is Shepard, and he stands out well above the FA/UDFA hopefuls. Doesn't he?
Quote:
if Cruz doesn't stay healthy and show some resemblance of his former self. He is 29, coming off two injuries, and hasn't played in almost two years. We would all love to see the old Victor doing the salsa dance in the end-zone, but he still has some significant hurdles to clear.
No doubt. And I worded that poorly...
3 should be LACK OF faith in VC's health. Even if he seems good to go or close enough to that to include him among the initial 53...
Sorry about the shit I gave you yesterday, BTW.
Your point was clear enough re marginal talent at some positions.
Sometimes I'm an asshole...
He can Flip the field as a KR/PR and Defender and he is
one of the best , he seemed to tire a bit because of the
WR reps ....
OL: 9
RB/FB/TE/WR: 14
DL/LB: 15-16
DB: 9-10
ST: 3
At the margins, the composition of those groups, and any trade-offs between positions, will be determined mostly by performance and injuries over the next three weeks. In other words, details like the exact number of WRs on the final roster are completely unknowable. Six is the most likely number; that's about all you can say.
Quote:
What 6 will come down to preseason, I should think.
As of now I would be surprised if they didn't keep King. He's been most impressive guy not named Odell. But you want to see them all in live action, of course.
Another guy playing well enough to stick is R Lewis. There will be tough cuts here. I should say to my eyes Harris has not stood out as much as others but should get a spot on account of specials and being a guy you already know what you have.
Harris is a perfect #5 WR. The 1-4 WR will get the majority of the WR snaps. Harris can fill in anywhere and do a respectable job while being the main ST returner/gunner, etc.
But now with T. King playing so well so far and D. Harris apparently being a ST's guy ONLY now, unless of course injuries ravage, I'd think you need 6 WR's now right? I have not read a single report that speaks to WR D. Harris out catching the ball for even 3rd teamers? Is that right?