I was just talking to my friend about Sterling Shepard. He was really high on Shepard coming out of college. He thought he was the top WR in the draft & thought he should've been a top 15 pick. My friend is a Bucs fan & was pissed off when they didn't get him. That just got me thinking about our wide receivers this year & the potential they have. I'm only 27 so I never got to see our LBs when we had LT, Banks & Carson. I think this is the most excited I've ever been for a single position.
Our WRs are so young & are very versatile. Obviously it starts with Odell who IMO is the best WR in the league. He's broken basically every record possible for a player through his first 2 years & he's missed 5 games in that time. He's also done it as the only threat on the team. Nobody was worried about Rueben Randle or rookie UDFA Will Tye.
Hopefully we will have Cruz back. I don't think he will be his old self, but I still think he can be a very productive WR. He was at his best when he was the 2nd option. Just based on his past he's going to draw attention. That should open things up for Odell.
Sterling Shepard hasn't played yet, but his game translates very well to the NFL. He's very smart so I doubt we see him make the same mistakes that Randle made. When I watched him in college the only comparison that came to mind was a poor man's Odell. Numerous beat writers have said he has been our best player during training camp. Guys like Eli & Odell are included in that. I really feel like he will be in contention for rookie of the year. It wouldn't shock me to see him have 1,000+ yards & 7+ TDs.
Dwayne Harris did pretty well as our 3rd WR this year. He's a tough SOB that will take the tough hits. He should be even better then last year as he goes from seeing 2nd/3rd CBs to 5th/6th CBs.
Then we have young guys that are bigger then the first 4. They are strictly outside WRs, but they have potential to be very good red zone targets. Every camp report I read says Geremy Davis has been a complete stud so far. Lance Zierlein from nfl.com said he is a poor man's Kevin White. He's getting reps against our top CBs & is winning consistently. He will rarely see CBs as talented as DRC/Janoris/Hall.
I assume we are going to keep 6 WRs this year. Not sure who the 6th WR will be, but I'm leaning towards Roger Lewis. He's extremely talented & we got lucky he fell in our lap as an UDFA. He got into trouble in HS & hasn't had any problems since then. I've read quite a few scouting reports that said if you remove the off field concerns he would have been picked somewhere between the late 2nd to early 4th round. He's another one that's basically only an outside WR. He's got good size with good arm length. He's a very good hands catcher & has a good catch radius. He's got good game speed & is very good at getting deep & making plays on the long ball. He played in 14 games last year. He had 1544 yards & 16 TDs for Bowling Green. He's got a ton of potential & I think he is a great fit for McAdoo's offense. I think he can make an impact if he's given the playing time.
It really wouldn't shock me to see Eli throw for over 5,000+ yards & 45+ TDs. Sorry for the long post. Was watching the Bucs & Eagles game. I was thanking my lucky stars that our WR corp isn't like the Eagles. Their WR corp seems pretty brutal. Most likely Rueben Randle & Nelson Agholor are their starting outside WRs. They combined last year for 1,080 yards & 9 TDs. Most of it was Randle, but he had a HOF QB throwing to him & seeing single coverage across from a guy who has the potential to be a HOF WR. The QB & WR across from him are huge downgrades this year. Jordan Matthews is a good slot WR, but he doesn't scare opposing defenses. I'm just hoping our guys stay healthy & we get to see how good they can be. Am I crazy in thinking our WRs are going to be that good?
Optimism is what everyone should feel right now. It's feasible but not likely Eli goes for 5k.
Why don't you think it's feasible? He was about 500 short of 4500 last year. Odell missed a game. His #2 WR could barely run the correct routes. No Victor Cruz & Larry Donnell. An Undrafted rookie free agent starting at TE. An Oline with 3 guys who were playing their position for the 1st time. Dwayne Harris was our 3rd WR & now he is our 5th WR. So much better from top to bottom.
I also think with McAdoo in charge we pass the ball more. Coughlin wanted to keep a balance just for the sake of keeping a balance. Even if the run game was doing terrible. I don't see that happening with McAdoo nor should it.
I predict Eli will have 5,000 yards; 45 TD's, 9 interceptions. It isn't that he hits those numbers exactly but rather is in that ballpark. Why do I predict his best season ever? Here are the main reasons:
1. Year #3 of the offense and he has now mastered it.
2. Odell Beckham Jr. will be a SUPER beast this year.
3. Our TE's will be improved, both in blocking & receiving.
4. The OL has continuity, year #2 together. LT E. Flowers should be improved; LG Pugh is year #2 and bigger at OG; OC Richburg is year #3 and ready to be the NFC's best OC; J. Jerry looks improved and is ready to have his best season; RT R. Newhouse we'll have to live with for another year.
5. I think RB Williams, Dwarka and Perkins will all be better. Not sure who sticks between Dwarka and Williams but both are close.
6. ST's should be solid again, even better on punt coverage and returns and this means longer fields / shorter fields and more opportunities for Eli.
I honestly believe that if this team can finally stay healthy this year, we'll be rocking and rolling come the last 3 - 4 games of the season.
And then the Giants draft a player who has a very similar skill set... Sterling Shepard, very precise route runner, great explosiveness, very good hands, with upper tier athleticism. The only thing these two receivers don't have is size... which is mitigated by their separation ability and leaping ability.
But where they lack size, Geremy Davis does not. Davis will have a role on this team, I believe. Davis has the ability to be a red zone threat with his size and strength. He has a full season under his belt, and from camp reports looks to have been putting in the work to get better.
And then there is Victor Cruz. We have seen what he's capable of, and everyone wants to see him salsa-ing in the endzone again. With two offseasons to get that knee stronger, there is some level of confidence that this season, he can make significant contributions. But at this point, it would be a bonus.
Add in Dwayne Harris, who, if he has the ball in space, has great speed and agility to break big plays. And when he's not asked to do that, will be a dangerous factor on special teams as a returner and gunner.
I believe Tavarres King will win the job as the 6th receiver, IF THERE IS ONE (a big if because I expect the Giants to carry 4 tight ends), as he has had an exceptional camp.
There is so much that this group can do. Obviously, with Odell's superlative ability, it makes things much easier on the other receivers. And if Shepard is what everyone believes him to be, this could be a very special group that does indeed propel Eli to a career year as well as an offense that can lead the team to a winning season.
WR #6 is definitely T. King right now. The thing about him is he is 26, knows the offense as he was on the PS last year and through OTA's and camp this year, and seems to have finally "put it together" and such. But I temper that statement with lets see how he does tomorrow night and where he practices on Sunday. I think Sunday's lineups will be telling as the coaches begin to align players as Team #1, Team #2, and Team #3 more.
But predicting anything more than "adequate" FOR any other receiving option on the team is foolhardy - with the exception of Vereen who is a fine, proven RB pass catcher.
That only changes when/if we discover that Cruz is healthy and resembles his former self.
Until then, all the rest of the WRs and TEs on the team are jags. Get real.
Just 3 more weeks to go, of our continued healthy off-season, and I'm right there with you.
If they are Jags (debatable) so what? You have brillance on this team if Jags is really another word for "capable" well you win with some "brilliant" and some "capable"
But I think we have more than that. Tye came on last year and was finding seams deep and making beautiful in full stride catches. With Stoney Brook for his training ground, his improvement in year two should be exponential. Same for Davis, this long striding big and aggressive receiver should be perfect and compliment OBJ and Shepard.
Harris was really knew to WR last year. I think that just by strength of numbers between King, Lewis and Powe (sp?) one strong receiver HAS to emerge.
I see Vereen as being remarkable this year....and that's if he never catches a ball. How can you play deep to stop OBJ and leave a linebacker to try to contain Vereen?
This corp of WR's, plus a "capable" tight end who can also get deep AND Vereen is a defensive co-ordinators nightmare.
I have never been as optimistic in sixty years of watching the Giants.
I just wish we had some depth on the oline and maybe one more player there.
I see a top five defense and a top five offense with superb specials this year. And I see .....well, I have to control the gushing..
What it comes down to is which guys consistently catch the ball. Drops and penalties are drive killers. We know that OBJ and Sheppard are special (not sure if Sheppard has dropped a pass in camp yet). Cruz a little less so. Harris and White are guys that will have their share of unnecessary drops.
Where do the remaining guys fit in to that? Powe, Lewis, Davis, King and KJ Maye all can run. Which ones can be relied on to consistently catch the ball?
And so while it would be great to see Eli have another great statistical year, if the D is better and the offense is more balanced, they might have more modest numbers -- but say, a 10-6 season if the injuries don't kill them again.
But predicting anything more than "adequate" FOR any other receiving option on the team is foolhardy - with the exception of Vereen who is a fine, proven RB pass catcher.
That only changes when/if we discover that Cruz is healthy and resembles his former self.
Until then, all the rest of the WRs and TEs on the team are jags. Get real.
You criticize others for predicting good performances for the "other" receiving options but then you project them as jags with no better info than they have.
And so while it would be great to see Eli have another great statistical year, if the D is better and the offense is more balanced, they might have more modest numbers -- but say, a 10-6 season if the injuries don't kill them again.
My thoughts exactly. If our defense is better we don't need to chuck the ball as much and if our offense is capable we won't average less than 4 yards a carry and can control the time of possession.
I'm not at all a fan of Ruben Randle but he was more than productive as a WR2 the last 2 years and would still be lofty to expect a rookie to come in and immediately replace 100% of his production.
If our team is better Eli will be better than last year by advanced numbers not outright numbers. The real key is our run game and defensive line.
Special teams is going to be how any of these guys make the roster. I feel like we're crowning these guys as "talented" wayyyy too early.
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But predicting anything more than "adequate" FOR any other receiving option on the team is foolhardy - with the exception of Vereen who is a fine, proven RB pass catcher.
That only changes when/if we discover that Cruz is healthy and resembles his former self.
Until then, all the rest of the WRs and TEs on the team are jags. Get real.
You criticize others for predicting good performances for the "other" receiving options but then you project them as jags with no better info than they have.
Well yes I do, that's exactly my point.
Shepard is having a great camp; and that is on top of him being a top 5 WR prospect and terrific - not good, not very good, but truly terrific college highlights tape.
Davis is having a very good camp, a significantly better one than last year. While that is cause for optimism, it doesn't put him anywhere near the class of Mario Manningham, our #3 WR in 2011 who was projected as a first round draft pick until he failed a weed test and scored like a 7 on the wonderlic test.
Does anyone remember raves about Victor Cruz his first year DURING CAMP before the preseason games began? I don't. I recall he caught everyone's notice after he lit the hell up the Jets' 2nd or 3rd team DBs. And the legendary Rex audio " who the F is this guy? Let's get a man over him!" Then he burned (IIRC) double coverage too...
I hope Davis is as good as he has looked in camp, but it seems to me a lot of his good plays weren't against our starting CBs, but against guys that won't make the 53.
So yes I apply different standards of evaluation to guys doing GREAT in camp who were high draft picks and have an estimable collegiate pedigree than to guys who the draft pundits graded as "reaches" in the 6th round like Davis. His college tape isn't remotely comparable to Shepard's and therefore I view his "very good" training camp in a different light.
Perhaps "jag" is too strong a term but I don't mean BAD, I mean easily replaceable or nothing special.
Special teams is going to be how any of these guys make the roster. I feel like we're crowning these guys as "talented" wayyyy too early.
In YANKEES report, but then FMIC pointed out that NOT FIELDING the punts may well have been the whole point of the drill.
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trying to field punts. I'm trying to recover the article or camp report where I found that.
Special teams is going to be how any of these guys make the roster. I feel like we're crowning these guys as "talented" wayyyy too early.
In YANKEES report, but then FMIC pointed out that NOT FIELDING the punts may well have been the whole point of the drill.
Gotcha, thanks.
That said I believe Shepard is going to pose more of a
problem for defenses more so than RR .
The Underneath stuff short patterns moving both he and
Odell around could actually open things up for Davis
Throw in Donnell and whoever comes in as a 4th WR .
It will be pick your poison and the trickle down effect
for the run game when the safeties won't be able to
cheat up in the run game .
Lets stay healthy and see the cram rise to the top .
King Lewis Powe hopefully all have a chance to show something tonight . Prayers to stay healthy tonight .
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In comment 13067182 BlueLou said
Perhaps "jag" is too strong a term but I don't mean BAD, I mean easily replaceable or nothing special.
But again, you don't know if that's true any more than those who tout them as being good, estimable collegiate pedigree or not. Did Cruz turn out to be easily replaceable or nothing special. You would have said so in his first camp.
If Cruz is a 50-600-4 type of guy just barely getting open in the slot and scaring no one, well, we won't so super dynamic. Dynamic maybe, but that means rookie WR S. Shepard, has to be a 75-1000-7 type guy. That is asking a lot.
WR Geremy Davis may be a force by mid-season as he learns, along with WR T. King (he sticks). I hope the Giants are not forced to use veteran WR D. Harris in the role of WR because that would mean the youth has not developed.
Big IF however.
Washington was like Barden. A big guy who couldn't get separation at the NFL level. The good news is that at least one of King, Lewis, or Powe appears worthy of being on the team, albeit as the last WR.
OBJ seems to be refining another small part of his game and was challenged by Eli this offseason to be even better, which means we havent even see the best of what hes got to offer yet. Don't be surprised, health provided, if OBJ is pushing for 130 catches and 2,000 yards.
Shepard, by all accounts is a quick study and natural at WR. I expect him to come in and have a Steve Smith (NYG) type rookie impact year one. Eli loves a security blanket that can get open for first downs, and I believe Shep will be a chain mover.
If this groin injury is truly nothing and not related to anything else, I expect Cruz to come back and be the "Amani Toomer of 2007" veteran presence on the WR corps and make the big catches when needed, but not necessarily be a star.
Then the crop of Davis(making the team), Lewis(might have the best overall talent of the non-starters_, King, Powe, and White all provide certain strengths to fill out the bottom 4-6.
Harris an emergency guy for the slot if someone goes down.
This is as good of a WR crops as we have had since 2007, with a much more experienced Eli and better system. Watch out (health provided as always).
If not for that friend, he would probably have spent 20 years in jail. That's a fairly traumatic even for an 18 year old to deal with. Nevertheless, by his senior year in college he got his act together and finished as he second leading receiver in the nation.
So, we are not talking about some obscure walk-on. We are talking about an NFL caliber talent whose career was derailed by off the field issues.
So, if he is so good, why wasn't he drafted? My guess would be that teams were reluctant to take a guy with sexual assault in his background because it is such a hot button issue today. Even though Lewis was vindicated and obviously did not rape anyone, he pleaded guilty to a lesser charge as part of plea bargain. IMO that's why he fell to free agency.
I'm not saying he is going to be a star. But Rick's claim about his potential is 100% accurate.
King is 26 and on his 4th team with 2 career receptions.
If not for that friend, he would probably have spent 20 years in jail. That's a fairly traumatic even for an 18 year old to deal with. Nevertheless, by his senior year in college he got his act together and finished as he second leading receiver in the nation.
So, we are not talking about some obscure walk-on. We are talking about an NFL caliber talent whose career was derailed by off the field issues.
So, if he is so good, why wasn't he drafted? My guess would be that teams were reluctant to take a guy with sexual assault in his background because it is such a hot button issue today. Even though Lewis was vindicated and obviously did not rape anyone, he pleaded guilty to a lesser charge as part of plea bargain. IMO that's why he fell to free agency.
I'm not saying he is going to be a star. But Rick's claim about his potential is 100% accurate.
Terrible this kind of stuff happens, both ways of course.
And so while it would be great to see Eli have another great statistical year, if the D is better and the offense is more balanced, they might have more modest numbers -- but say, a 10-6 season if the injuries don't kill them again.
Well said, David. Couldn't agree more.
And so while it would be great to see Eli have another great statistical year, if the D is better and the offense is more balanced, they might have more modest numbers -- but say, a 10-6 season if the injuries don't kill them again.
That's not really true. Here are the seasons of 5000+ yards:
Peyton (2013 - DEN): 5,477 yds; +207 pt differential
Brees (2011 - NO): 5,476 yds; +208 pts
Brady (2011 - NE): 5,235 yds; +171 pts
Brees (2012 - NO): 5,177 yds; +7 pts
Brees (2013 - NO): 5,162 yds; +110 pts
Marino (1984 - MIA): 5,084 yds; +215 pts
Brees (2008 - NO): 5,069 yds; +70 pts
Stafford (2011 - DET): 5,038 yds; +87 pts
The bold years are where the average margin of victory was <7 pts/game and one of those (Brees, 2013) is right at 7 pts/game. The other 4 seasons saw teams with double digit margins of victory.
Rape. A friend of mine spent 7 months in jail awaiting trial for a false rape allegation by his "girlfriend" who later recanted before a judge, admitted she made it up due to her anger with him, and well got no time or punishment. He lost his job and what little money he had!!!! No hardcore evidence, he likely would have won in trial but who knows?
Terrible this kind of stuff happens, both ways of course.
That's the problem right now: no one wants to prosecute for false allegations and testimony because of the negative press that will arise about "silencing victims."
I don't have kids, but often hear people on BBI and elsewhere going o about their daughters. And I understand that. But what about the people with sons? No one here worried about their son going to college and having a little bit too much to drink and winding up accused of sexual assault, even though the woman was just as drunk and seemed to consent? Or worried about someone making a false accusation because there is no penalty for doing so in most cases? A young man's life being ruined for something that in the past would have been handled by the kids themselves and their mutual friends with apologies. I don't get why we don't hear from parents with sons. I know I sure as hell would be worried about my son if he was going away to college.
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Rape. A friend of mine spent 7 months in jail awaiting trial for a false rape allegation by his "girlfriend" who later recanted before a judge, admitted she made it up due to her anger with him, and well got no time or punishment. He lost his job and what little money he had!!!! No hardcore evidence, he likely would have won in trial but who knows?
Terrible this kind of stuff happens, both ways of course.
That's the problem right now: no one wants to prosecute for false allegations and testimony because of the negative press that will arise about "silencing victims."
I don't have kids, but often hear people on BBI and elsewhere going o about their daughters. And I understand that. But what about the people with sons? No one here worried about their son going to college and having a little bit too much to drink and winding up accused of sexual assault, even though the woman was just as drunk and seemed to consent? Or worried about someone making a false accusation because there is no penalty for doing so in most cases? A young man's life being ruined for something that in the past would have been handled by the kids themselves and their mutual friends with apologies. I don't get why we don't hear from parents with sons. I know I sure as hell would be worried about my son if he was going away to college.