That was disgusting to read. Like you said, if this is true, then I would want no part of him on this team. Just like I felt with all the others, Ray Rice, Hardy, etc, I would never in a million years want a domestic abuser on the Giants.
That's rich. Yep, let's wait until Josh kills his next wife and after he's convicted by a jury of his peers, then, and only then, we should suspend him.
Guy seems like a real tough PoS. I guess being a kicker caused him to develop some sort of tough guy complex because he doesn't get to hit guys every day like a lineman.
To hell with domestic abusers and tough guys who take on woman and kids.
It started when his then-wife became pregnant? Even better, jerk wad.
anger management weather he's married or not. If he doesn't go or do well, bye-bye.
WTF is wrong with you assholes? White nights?
Every single line and report in that story starts with "she said..."
The DA never filed charges...
Nothing like the rush to judgement here from folks who can't read critically.
EVERY LINE WAS "SHE SAID".
How about hearing something like "police noted bruises" or "hospital records confirmed contusions" because what's reported in that article is in fact literally "hearsay" and one side of the story.
Nice bolt on though in that photo of her it looks like...
anger management weather he's married or not. If he doesn't go or do well, bye-bye.
WTF is wrong with you assholes? White nights?
Every single line and report in that story starts with "she said..."
The DA never filed charges...
Nothing like the rush to judgement here from folks who can't read critically.
EVERY LINE WAS "SHE SAID".
How about hearing something like "police noted bruises" or "hospital records confirmed contusions" because what's reported in that article is in fact literally "hearsay" and one side of the story.
Nice bolt on though in that photo of her it looks like...
Blue Lou you're argument would be easier to digest if you take a walk around the block and relax before posting. Cripes man
anger management weather he's married or not. If he doesn't go or do well, bye-bye.
WTF is wrong with you assholes? White nights?
Every single line and report in that story starts with "she said..."
The DA never filed charges...
Nothing like the rush to judgement here from folks who can't read critically.
EVERY LINE WAS "SHE SAID".
How about hearing something like "police noted bruises" or "hospital records confirmed contusions" because what's reported in that article is in fact literally "hearsay" and one side of the story.
Nice bolt on though in that photo of her it looks like...
Also, for injuries in arm from being thrown into the mirror and on the floor that caused her pain for months, you would think a single mention to her doctor complaining of soreness would be noted over that same time period. And as for "Genuinely, getting in her son's face". WTF does that mean? A 16 yo is closer to being a man than a helpless boy.
are pretty detailed allegations, going back several years. I think it would be hard to make up all those details and dates. And as someone said, the protection order should be easy to confirm, as should the identity of the handyman who fixed the busted bathroom door.
The Giants need to immediately do some due diligence. But if these allegations are correct then he needs to be immediately released. The allegation that he got angry when his wife was pregnant is particularly evil.
to her corroborating evidence. Medical records where she sought treatment for pain due to her injuries. Photographic evidence of bruises that correspond to the time-frame when the reported injuries occurred. I'm not about to smear a man's reputation and cause him to lose his job based on She Said, Genuinely getting in her son's face, or a busted bathroom door.
Who give a crap about a busted door? Shit is made so cheaply that it doesn't take a tremendous force to break a door jam and to take a door off the hinges.
anger management weather he's married or not. If he doesn't go or do well, bye-bye.
WTF is wrong with you assholes? White nights?
Every single line and report in that story starts with "she said..."
The DA never filed charges...
Nothing like the rush to judgement here from folks who can't read critically.
EVERY LINE WAS "SHE SAID".
How about hearing something like "police noted bruises" or "hospital records confirmed contusions" because what's reported in that article is in fact literally "hearsay" and one side of the story.
Nice bolt on though in that photo of her it looks like...
Lol. So folks are assholes for blistering a guy who...
A) is being accused by his wife of more than 20 incidents of physical abuse B) has the police detail that she "appeared to be genuinely afraid of her husband (Brown)" after two consecutive nights of having been called to their residence
C) resisted arrest until physically forced to comply with officers
D) was reprimanded over a year later by a league under perhaps the most intense microscope regarding domestic violence. Do you think just maybe the NFL exercised their due diligence to ensure that they got this right?
But you'd rather cling to the ridiculous notion that because the case was dropped by county prosecuters Josh Brown must be innocent. Nevermind that it's incredibly difficult to move forward with charges when the victim is unwilling to cooperate, which in the case of battered women is quite typical. It's not as if a woman that may have been assaulted 20 times prior without speaking up wouldn't have a documented history of not voicing her abuse to authorities.
Stick to the wine game and creepily surveying your niece.
Listen to the 911 call. They can both be heard talking while waiting for the cops. Brown sounded calm throughout. He can be heard saying "I don't want to argue", "Thats not going to happen" in response to his wife's demands that he leave. "I'm not leaving my daughter here" also in response to demands he leave.
The last comment is particularly interesting because he says in his press conference that he wants to go home to be with his daughter. He and his wife are currently divorced so does he have custody of the daughter ? Thats interesting to say the least.
What makes one think the Giants haven't already done due diligence?
Why haven't ANY charges been filed by the DA?
Does everyone imagine the police didn't properly investigate?
Was the ex-wife's home examined for the damage she claimed he did?
And yeah, what does it mean "he got in his (16 year old) son's face"? Is that some kind of crime? Now it's a crime to "get in your child's face"?
Frankly, I smell a woman with an agenda. Not sure what her agenda is (money?) but it sure seems like a rush to judgement by most here in response to claims that are literally hearsay.
I'm convinced some of you belong to r/TheRedPill Â
Did she come out publicly with this? If so, I really feel bad for their kids. If this was strictly tl the police then how is it made public? If this happened so many times then did she take pictures? Is there evidence? I hate situations like this. It seems 50/50 of truth to lies when stuff likes this comes out. For every guilty male there seems like a crazy lady. As usual, there are no winners in this. Sad.
My ex girlfriend cheated on me with another dude. To save face, she told people that I beat her. It was totally untrue, but all it took was words from her mouth and I was instantly guilty in peoples eyes.
Maybe Brown beat her, and maybe not. I'm thinking he's innocent until proven guilty.
to her corroborating evidence. Medical records where she sought treatment for pain due to her injuries. Photographic evidence of bruises that correspond to the time-frame when the reported injuries occurred. I'm not about to smear a man's reputation and cause him to lose his job based on She Said, Genuinely getting in her son's face, or a busted bathroom door.
Who give a crap about a busted door? Shit is made so cheaply that it doesn't take a tremendous force to break a door jam and to take a door off the hinges.
You simply don't get it. This isn't a woman that is playing victim and seeking some form of compensation or award based upon abuse that she claimed. She isn't suing Briwn for damages rather the NFL got wind of suspicious activity, investigated, and deemed Brown's actions inappropriate. This is a woman that called the police multiple times out of fear for her and her son's safety and has since removed herself from that situation. She wanted out and got out. The burden is not on the ex-wife to prove why she needed to leave and I'm sure she's not incentivized whatsoever to have Brown suspended.
a guy who...
A) is being accused by his wife of more than 20 incidents of physical abuse
Thats another thing. She accused him of these 20 incidents over a year ago. Don't you think the NFL investigated that allegation ? Don't you think that if there was any evidence of that allegation Brown would have been suspended for a lot longer ? Keep in mind the NFL doesn't need proof beyond a reasonable doubt
My ex girlfriend cheated on me with another dude. To save face, she told people that I beat her. It was totally untrue, but all it took was words from her mouth and I was instantly guilty in peoples eyes.
Maybe Brown beat her, and maybe not. I'm thinking he's innocent until proven guilty.
they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
anger management weather he's married or not. If he doesn't go or do well, bye-bye.
WTF is wrong with you assholes? White nights?
Every single line and report in that story starts with "she said..."
The DA never filed charges...
Nothing like the rush to judgement here from folks who can't read critically.
EVERY LINE WAS "SHE SAID".
How about hearing something like "police noted bruises" or "hospital records confirmed contusions" because what's reported in that article is in fact literally "hearsay" and one side of the story.
Nice bolt on though in that photo of her it looks like...
Lol. So folks are assholes for blistering a guy who...
A) is being accused by his wife of more than 20 incidents of physical abuse B) has the police detail that she "appeared to be genuinely afraid of her husband (Brown)" after two consecutive nights of having been called to their residence
C) resisted arrest until physically forced to comply with officers
D) was reprimanded over a year later by a league under perhaps the most intense microscope regarding domestic violence. Do you think just maybe the NFL exercised their due diligence to ensure that they got this right?
But you'd rather cling to the ridiculous notion that because the case was dropped by county prosecuters Josh Brown must be innocent. Nevermind that it's incredibly difficult to move forward with charges when the victim is unwilling to cooperate, which in the case of battered women is quite typical. It's not as if a woman that may have been assaulted 20 times prior without speaking up wouldn't have a documented history of not voicing her abuse to authorities.
Stick to the wine game and creepily surveying your niece.
Every objection I raised is legitimate.
As for referring to a comment I made what 2 years ago about having a gorgeous niece, who's the creep here?
Not to mention asshole or fuckstick.
Douche...
Yeah, fire the guy on the spot because of a bunch of she said...
And I guarantee you I know more about and have done more to stop domestic violence in my life than you have or will have done in the next 3 lifetimes. I fucking grew up with it punk, an abusive father...
You're the worst kind if bullshit keyboard righteous hero.
What makes one think the Giants haven't already done due diligence?
Why haven't ANY charges been filed by the DA?
Does everyone imagine the police didn't properly investigate?
Was the ex-wife's home examined for the damage she claimed he did?
And yeah, what does it mean "he got in his (16 year old) son's face"? Is that some kind of crime? Now it's a crime to "get in your child's face"?
Frankly, I smell a woman with an agenda. Not sure what her agenda is (money?) but it sure seems like a rush to judgement by most here in response to claims that are literally hearsay.
Why haven't charges been filed? Perhaps because the victim was afraid for her safety and didn't want the embarrassment of going through the process of cooperating with law enforcement? It's not as if that is extremely fucking common. It's not as if the woman didn't divorce her husband and achieve what seemed to have been her ultimate goal of separating from him.
You smell a woman with an agenda? Please, expand upon what this woman has sought and/or stands to gain. The ex-wife has not spoken to the media from what I can tell and more or less allowed this incident to be brushed under the rug for over a year until the NFL proactively responded through their own investigation.
This isn't a case where the female blabs to the media/social media/courts/police/ect and you could rightfully wonder if there are ulterior motives. This is a case in which the female seemingly was exceedingly quite with regards to what she is claiming and was looking to exact almost nothing from the accused other than a separation for her safety.
convict this guy yet. It all absolutely may be true. However, it would not be the first time a wife was claiming to be abused leading up to a divorce. Not that this is the case here, but it could happen so lets watch this all play out.
A very good friend of mine who has never lifted a hand to harm anyone ever found himself in a situation like I was describing. He married into a family that owned car dealerships and he was involved with the business. Wife wanted out and schemed with her parents to divorce him while trying to keep him from having any part of the business. He is watching TV with his kids and the cops come to the door responding to a domestic violence call from the wife. She tried to do this multiple times and after a couple of years it was proven that she invented it all. I am sure there are a thousand stories like that.
Now, to the Giants and Brown... They need to find another kicker now. We don't know where this will end up and the Giants do not want to find themselves without a kicker in the middle of the season or leading into the playoffs.
anger management weather he's married or not. If he doesn't go or do well, bye-bye.
WTF is wrong with you assholes? White nights?
Every single line and report in that story starts with "she said..."
The DA never filed charges...
Nothing like the rush to judgement here from folks who can't read critically.
EVERY LINE WAS "SHE SAID".
How about hearing something like "police noted bruises" or "hospital records confirmed contusions" because what's reported in that article is in fact literally "hearsay" and one side of the story.
Nice bolt on though in that photo of her it looks like...
Lol. So folks are assholes for blistering a guy who...
A) is being accused by his wife of more than 20 incidents of physical abuse B) has the police detail that she "appeared to be genuinely afraid of her husband (Brown)" after two consecutive nights of having been called to their residence
C) resisted arrest until physically forced to comply with officers
D) was reprimanded over a year later by a league under perhaps the most intense microscope regarding domestic violence. Do you think just maybe the NFL exercised their due diligence to ensure that they got this right?
But you'd rather cling to the ridiculous notion that because the case was dropped by county prosecuters Josh Brown must be innocent. Nevermind that it's incredibly difficult to move forward with charges when the victim is unwilling to cooperate, which in the case of battered women is quite typical. It's not as if a woman that may have been assaulted 20 times prior without speaking up wouldn't have a documented history of not voicing her abuse to authorities.
Stick to the wine game and creepily surveying your niece.
Every objection I raised is legitimate.
As for referring to a comment I made what 2 years ago about having a gorgeous niece, who's the creep here?
Not to mention asshole or fuckstick.
Douche...
Yeah, fire the guy on the spot because of a bunch of she said...
And I guarantee you I know more about and have done more to stop domestic violence in my life than you have or will have done in the next 3 lifetimes. I fucking grew up with it punk, an abusive father...
You're the worst kind if bullshit keyboard righteous hero.
NOGAF.
Keep sticking to the narrative that a female accuser, who has more or less helped sweep allegations under the rug in an age where she could easily blow this incident up, has ulterior motives. Yep, let's help this woman by digging up a year old incident, which may invoke painful experiences that she's clearly moved on from, and prod her to produce evidence to satiate BlueLou and fellow fans who would burn Zeke Elliot at the spike for anything similar.
You're spouting ignorant, borderline victim-shaming nonsense and you're getting called out on it.
they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
Stop spewing your nonsense. Off the field behavior only matters when it pertains to division rivals. It wasn't LT's fault that the prostitute he screwed in the hotel was 16. But the Cowboys are evil for signing hardy
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
And as likely as your take is - that this ex-wife's wanted to keep this quiet and was afraid to go forward with pressing charges against her ex-husband for fear of reprisal - there are still other possibilities you are dismissing out of hand.
Unless you are a social worker or psychiatrist there's no way you have had the life experiences I have had regarding domestic violence and worse. But I don't rush to judgement, because I am not an a-hole willing to assume a bunch of "she saids" are facts, like you are.
You are jumping to a conclusion with zero hard evidence.
convict this guy yet. It all absolutely may be true. However, it would not be the first time a wife was claiming to be abused leading up to a divorce. Not that this is the case here, but it could happen so lets watch this all play out.
A very good friend of mine who has never lifted a hand to harm anyone ever found himself in a situation like I was describing. He married into a family that owned car dealerships and he was involved with the business. Wife wanted out and schemed with her parents to divorce him while trying to keep him from having any part of the business. He is watching TV with his kids and the cops come to the door responding to a domestic violence call from the wife. She tried to do this multiple times and after a couple of years it was proven that she invented it all. I am sure there are a thousand stories like that.
Now, to the Giants and Brown... They need to find another kicker now. We don't know where this will end up and the Giants do not want to find themselves without a kicker in the middle of the season or leading into the playoffs.
You're absolutely correct in that these situations can be manipulated to the benefit of a dishonest accuser. That being said, in this particular instance the facts lead us to believe that the wife has since moved on without pursuing media attention, money, vengeance, or anything that we could reasonably deduce to benefit her through those accusations. Again, it's not as if this woman is bringing up old claims rather it's simply the NFL acknowledging a shady situation that otherwise would've gone overlooked.
Regarding the Giants doing their own due diligence...Coach McAdoo said that. He had no knowledge of the situation upon being hired. Our coach doesn't know that his kicker may be facing a suspension and were to expect that the Giants underwent reasonable due diligence here?
And I said that last week. My apologies. I was mistaken. It was est1986. That was my fuck up. I was out of line coming at you with that Bullshit.
That said, fuck stains like est and Ned posting idiocy that I somehow support domestic violence is pretty fucked up.
I merely held that the original article left more questions than answers and was irresponsible considering the topic of domestic violence in today's sports.
RE: RE: If the Giants were going to get rid of him, Â
they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
Unless real evidence comes out relating to the statements.
Seems like a physco who Brown would pay off anymore today. She prob got rubbed the wrong way by the way Brown answered the question about being married today and he said " I am now divorced and that is permanent" like a boss
And as likely as your take is - that this ex-wife's wanted to keep this quiet and was afraid to go forward with pressing charges against her ex-husband for fear of reprisal - there are still other possibilities you are dismissing out of hand.
Unless you are a social worker or psychiatrist there's no way you have had the life experiences I have had regarding domestic violence and worse. But I don't rush to judgement, because I am not an a-hole willing to assume a bunch of "she saids" are facts, like you are.
You are jumping to a conclusion with zero hard evidence.
What would satisfy you to conclude that whatever the ex-wife claimed in 2015 and prior actually occurred? I'm assuming you'd require hard evidence, which is just the sort of thing that it seems that this woman was not interested in providing because she simply wanted to move on with her life from her abuser. Simply because a woman may not have wanted to subject herself to the media blitz of public accusation and perhaps the financial hit to her husbands earnings doesn't mean that Brown isn't necessarily guilty. If this woman was nuts or jilted then she'd be incentived to go public but in this case it doesn't appear that she did.
We had an impartial (I'd almost argue partial in that those expect the NFL to side with their player) source investigate an conclude that something inappropriate occurred.
they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
They cut bait with Boley pretty quickly, despite the fact that he was a starter in a super bowl win. And you haven't heard or seen him around the franchise since. It's like he was never here.
Which makes me think perhaps that the Giants have the whole story, unlike us.
in that you don't want it to be true, but you want to believe the alleged victim and you don't want to assume the alleged victim is a liar because of how awful the alleged acts are.
At the same time, because of how awful the alleged acts are, you don't want to assume someone's guilt without corroborating evidence because that label becomes impossible for the accused to shake even if it turns out to be false.
So I'll take the "cop out" position of "if what she said is true, then he's a scumbag who should be kicked off the team. "
there is a lot in that article that can be taken out of context Â
Just as the DA would to move forward with charges.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
Classy...
RE: RE: RE: If the Giants were going to get rid of him, Â
they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
Oh God...*facepalm*
.
That's all you got, you are either idealistic or oblivious!
NFL security does an investigation before handing down suspensions. Their resources are far superior to local law enforcement. I'm not an apologist for the guy but after nfl security did their thing it was determined to be 1 game. Same amount as far leveon bell missing a drug test.
In today's NFL if am investigation revealed 20 instances of domestic violence he would be suspended for at least a year probably much more.
they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
Oh God...*facepalm*
.
That's all you got, you are either idealistic or oblivious!
Sorry. I don't speak moron.
Blue Lou you're not wrong in your thoughts on the matter Â
Despite being a little nutty about it at first. This is the Daily News after all, their first priority is headlines, the truth falls somewhere after that in priority.
I would hope anyone on the Giants would be treated as equally as anyone on the Cowboys when it comes to domestic violence.
There has to be more to the whole story - as I said above, it would be really surprising if it was really this bad and the Giants missed out on the info by failing to do proper due diligence when they first learned of the situation.
That seems like a habitual abuser, I would cut him right now. He is 37, there is no future with this player. I am very surprised the Giants resigned him if they knew this.
RE: RE: RE: If the Giants were going to get rid of him, Â
they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
They cut bait with Boley pretty quickly, despite the fact that he was a starter in a super bowl win. And you haven't heard or seen him around the franchise since. It's like he was never here.
Which makes me think perhaps that the Giants have the whole story, unlike us.
.
Actually they didn't cut bait quickly, re-check your facts!
'It's like he was never here'...I wouldn't go that far.
Just as the DA would to move forward with charges.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
Classy...
You led the opening sentence of your first post by calling people "assholes" for justifiably being upset and/or embarrassed by Josh Brown's actions. I'd say that amounts to some blanket slime shoveling.
The point remains that if you're waiting for hard evidence then you may as will give up because the ex-wife has clearly moved on and hasn't looked to dredge up old demons. This doesn't exonerate Brown in a situation where the evidence seems to be tilted against his case.
Again, what we know is this..
1)There is documentation of police being called and dispatched to the Brown household on consecutive nights
2) In the police report Brown's ex-wife claims 20 incidents of abuse among other things
3) Officers note that Brown's ex-wife looked visibly shaken and fearful of her husband
4) Officers note that Brown was initially uncooperative with them until physically induced to comply
5) The ex-wife doesn't seem to have sought attention from this incident
6) The couple is now divorced
7) The NFL conducted an investigation and ruled to punish Brown
Sure, taken in a vacuum notes 1 & 2 amount to hearsay claims initiated by Brown's ex-wife. Troubling in themselves but granted, hearsay. When we then account for points 3 & 4 I begin to lean a bit more heavily towards believing that something inappropriate occurred. Unless these officers are horrible judges of behavioral cues, the ex-wife is a terrific actress, and Brown was aggitated enough by police to object to their orders then I'm not sure how you could draw the conclusion that this amounts to simple hearsay. Finally, when adding in points 5,6, and 7 I find that the path of least resistance in logic is to conclude that Brown probably acted unethically.
RE: Sounds like Mr. Brown is a piece of shit...... Â
That seems like a habitual abuser, I would cut him right now. He is 37, there is no future with this player. I am very surprised the Giants resigned him if they knew this.
Sounds like your a moron who doesn't believe in getting both sides of a story
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the Giants were going to get rid of him, Â
they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
Oh God...*facepalm*
.
That's all you got, you are either idealistic or oblivious!
Sorry. I don't speak moron.
You must speak asshat shit, like a few others,
speaking of morons. I just look at things the way they are.
If one speaks the truth, that makes him a moron, interesting
theory "Dave from Hoboken'. Oh my, LOL!
Cutting Brown isn't contingent on a preponderance of evidence. Â
There has to be more to the whole story - as I said above, it would be really surprising if it was really this bad and the Giants missed out on the info by failing to do proper due diligence when they first learned of the situation.
What throws me for a loop is that McAdoo mentioned that he hadn't been informed of any pending issues or incidents related to Brown upon his hiring. Did the Giants conduct proper due diligence? If so, why wasn't the HC briefed on an NFL investigation into his starting PK?
I have not listened to the tape but from my experience in DV cases, it sometimes happens that one spouse accuses the other of DV in order to have the other spouse removed from the marital home. This gives the "victim" spouse a strategic advantage in the divorce proceeding. I am not saying that happened here but the description of that tape gave me a hint of that being the case. When I get time I will listen to the tape.
That would be one reason for a spouse to exaggerate DV claim.
On the other hand her claim of a prior order of protection would suggest history of DV.
Like others have suggested, the NFL is very sensitive to these allegations and I would think they thoroughly investigated this before handing out discipline.
RE: Cutting Brown isn't contingent on a preponderance of evidence. Â
But none are described beyond grabbing her wrist and kicking in a door. It doesn't sound like he ever actually hit her and instead only threatened to. How many times did Ralph Kramden say "one of these days, Alice, right in the kisser" and everyone laughed because they knew it wasn't something he would ever do.
I agree with the people who see this as "he said, she said" with not enough detail to condemn Josh Brown (or his wife).
RE: RE: Cutting Brown isn't contingent on a preponderance of evidence. Â
I advocate cutting him - they can always re-sign him later if evidence vindicates him.
And go do you know the team doesn't know all of the evidence?
Do you really think they would have signed him to extension if he was a serial abuser)
I don't - but McAdoo saying he wasn't informed of any incidents regarding Brown makes me suspicious that they do/did. Plus, the suspension came down from the league instead of the Giants suspending him first.
• Head coach Ben McAdoo said he did not learn of Brown's arrest until after he was named head coach in January. McAdoo did not specify when he first learned of the issue. When Brown was arrested, Tom Coughlin was head coach and McAdoo was the team's offensive coordinator.
• McAdoo said the Giants support the league's decision and their stance on personal conduct. McAdoo said he supports Brown "as a man, as a father and as a player," and he treats these types of situations on a case-by-case basis.
• When McAdoo was hired, he told The New York Post's Steve Serby in an interview that the one thing he would not tolerate is domestic violence. But McAdoo said his support for Brown does not change his stance. "I'm a father, I'm a husband, my stance on personal conduct stays the way it is, it stays consistent, it stays strong," McAdoo said. "But I think it's important, as an organization, and in the locker room, to take it on a case-by-case basis."
McAdoo would not go into details about the reason he is comfortable with Brown remaining on the team. "That's something that's private, and I'm not willing to discuss publicly."
I have not listened to the tape but from my experience in DV cases, it sometimes happens that one spouse accuses the other of DV in order to have the other spouse removed from the marital home. This gives the "victim" spouse a strategic advantage in the divorce proceeding. I am not saying that happened here but the description of that tape gave me a hint of that being the case. When I get time I will listen to the tape.
Ugh...scary to read that, Ciggy, but thanks for the info
"Head coach Ben McAdoo said he did not learn of Brown's arrest until after he was named head coach in January. McAdoo did not specify when he first learned of the issue."
I think that's worded poorly, and maybe it's me: I interpret that as saying he didn't know until after he was hired - which could have been any time since, not necessarily in January.
"Head coach Ben McAdoo said he did not learn of Brown's arrest until after he was named head coach in January. McAdoo did not specify when he first learned of the issue."
I think that's worded poorly, and maybe it's me: I interpret that as saying he didn't know until after he was hired - which could have been any time since, not necessarily in January.
I guess, either way, sounds like he, the Giants and the NFL investigated and thought it warranted just a 1-game suspension.
so given the scrutiny domestic violence in the NFL gets I'm thinking we don't have the whole story.
The Giants seem like a pretty conservative organization, and while pragmatic, this isn't like Eli or Odell Beckham if they felt it was a serious enough problem they'd have cut him IMO.
and they still might if any of this is a surprise, but I don't think the Giants were surprised by this, but that's just my opinion.
Just as the DA would to move forward with charges.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
"Head coach Ben McAdoo said he did not learn of Brown's arrest until after he was named head coach in January. McAdoo did not specify when he first learned of the issue."
I think that's worded poorly, and maybe it's me: I interpret that as saying he didn't know until after he was hired - which could have been any time since, not necessarily in January.
My interpretation too.
At the end of the day the situation is what it is unless someone decides to provide more information, and it seems as if the major players (NPI) are incentivized to keep quiet.
"Head coach Ben McAdoo said he did not learn of Brown's arrest until after he was named head coach in January. McAdoo did not specify when he first learned of the issue."
I think that's worded poorly, and maybe it's me: I interpret that as saying he didn't know until after he was hired - which could have been any time since, not necessarily in January.
I guess, either way, sounds like he, the Giants and the NFL investigated and thought it warranted just a 1-game suspension.
so given the scrutiny domestic violence in the NFL gets I'm thinking we don't have the whole story.
The Giants seem like a pretty conservative organization, and while pragmatic, this isn't like Eli or Odell Beckham if they felt it was a serious enough problem they'd have cut him IMO.
and they still might if any of this is a surprise, but I don't think the Giants were surprised by this, but that's just my opinion.
I hope you're right, of course. I think it's a bit disappointing McAdoo says it's a private matter after his DV posturing when hired. I think an explanation is owed when you retreat from a position like that.
RE: RE: Burberry - yes I would want hard evidence. Â
Just as the DA would to move forward with charges.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
"Head coach Ben McAdoo said he did not learn of Brown's arrest until after he was named head coach in January. McAdoo did not specify when he first learned of the issue."
I think that's worded poorly, and maybe it's me: I interpret that as saying he didn't know until after he was hired - which could have been any time since, not necessarily in January.
I guess, either way, sounds like he, the Giants and the NFL investigated and thought it warranted just a 1-game suspension.
so given the scrutiny domestic violence in the NFL gets I'm thinking we don't have the whole story.
The Giants seem like a pretty conservative organization, and while pragmatic, this isn't like Eli or Odell Beckham if they felt it was a serious enough problem they'd have cut him IMO.
and they still might if any of this is a surprise, but I don't think the Giants were surprised by this, but that's just my opinion.
I hope you're right, of course. I think it's a bit disappointing McAdoo says it's a private matter after his DV posturing when hired. I think an explanation is owed when you retreat from a position like that.
He (McAdoo) is being crucified on social media, as is Goodell.
RE: RE: RE: Burberry - yes I would want hard evidence. Â
Just as the DA would to move forward with charges.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
Classy...
What do you expect from a Trump dick rider?
So beta of you. Harambe would be so disappointed.
God you're pathetic.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Burberry - yes I would want hard evidence. Â
Just as the DA would to move forward with charges.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
Classy...
What do you expect from a Trump dick rider?
So beta of you. Harambe would be so disappointed.
God you're pathetic.
2/10
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Burberry - yes I would want hard evidence. Â
Just as the DA would to move forward with charges.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
Classy...
What do you expect from a Trump dick rider?
So beta of you. Harambe would be so disappointed.
God you're pathetic.
2/10
Thank you! That's exactly the ratio of bullshit to facts you've actually spouted off on this site.
Good for you admitting your ignorance.
What does BM's political fandom have to do with anything here? Â
"You led the opening sentence of your first post by calling people "assholes" for justifiably being upset and/or embarrassed by Josh Brown's actions. I'd say that amounts to some blanket slime shoveling."
I called people out for taking that article at face value when it was simply and literally a list of "she said."
As for shoveling slime, calling people assholes for their dumb knee jerk reactions to their own uncritical reading of a piss poor article doesn't compare with dredging up a 2 or more year old personal comment that some folks misinterpreted and other asswipes actually kept in memory.
You sir, are a shit stain, and basically a cretin to jump to the conclusions you jumped to from that article.
Read every single post in this thread and attempt to cipher the intelligent, balanced and cautious ones vs. the pitchforks and oil torches crowd... you like being the leader of the Lynch mob, great, stay with it under the guise of being sensitive to battered women. Phony.
Please tell me what you have done in real life for battered women, and I'll tell you what I have done - off line.
...the team ownership/GM to make a statement about what has transpired and remove their new HC from the crossfire if he does not deserve to be caught in it.
and tells her girlfriend thats there at the time to tell the police that she saw her husband hit his wife. I have seen the same women try and get restraining orders against 4 different men.
"You led the opening sentence of your first post by calling people "assholes" for justifiably being upset and/or embarrassed by Josh Brown's actions. I'd say that amounts to some blanket slime shoveling."
I called people out for taking that article at face value when it was simply and literally a list of "she said."
As for shoveling slime, calling people assholes for their dumb knee jerk reactions to their own uncritical reading of a piss poor article doesn't compare with dredging up a 2 or more year old personal comment that some folks misinterpreted and other asswipes actually kept in memory.
You sir, are a shit stain, and basically a cretin to jump to the conclusions you jumped to from that article.
Read every single post in this thread and attempt to cipher the intelligent, balanced and cautious ones vs. the pitchforks and oil torches crowd... you like being the leader of the Lynch mob, great, stay with it under the guise of being sensitive to battered women. Phony.
Please tell me what you have done in real life for battered women, and I'll tell you what I have done - off line.
If Josh Brown were an African American, we'd be reading nothing or, the exact opposite of what he's posting now. And that's a fact. Believe me.
McAdoo is right, you have to treat these on a case by case basis. This isn't a Greg Hardy situation.
Why is it different? Because Hardys domestic abuse was more aggressive than Browns alleged abuse? If you're a domestic abuser, you are a disgusting human being.
We all have mothers, some sisters, some daughters. Doesn't this make you guys sick? All cases can be different, sure, but it doesn't mean that if guilty, you're not just as much as a scumbag.
I think it's a lot of hearsay. I don't see how you suspend someone for that. Society is just becoming too soft.
I realize you probably weren't meaning to speak legally, but it's not hearsay if she is describing what happened to her. You may not believe her - that's the "she said" part - but it's not hearsay.
McAdoo is right, you have to treat these on a case by case basis. This isn't a Greg Hardy situation.
Why is it different? Because Hardys domestic abuse was more aggressive than Browns alleged abuse? If you're a domestic abuser, you are a disgusting human being.
It's different because there is physical evidence including photos that he beat the crap out of her. With Brown, there is no suggestion that he hit her. The claims are that he grabbed her by her wrist, got in her 16-year old son's face, kicked down a bathroom door, and once said that he wanted to punch her. But no claim that he ever did. So without even a claim that he hit her, I think it's reasonable to take the view that this is a "he said, she said" between two people who didn't belong together.
And I said that last week. My apologies. I was mistaken. It was est1986. That was my fuck up. I was out of line coming at you with that Bullshit.
That said, fuck stains like est and Ned posting idiocy that I somehow support domestic violence is pretty fucked up.
I merely held that the original article left more questions than answers and was irresponsible considering the topic of domestic violence in today's sports.
You are a cry baby and a asshole, lighten up. One picture as a joke and here you are still crying about it? Get over it. Was it really that offensive? I saw you bitch about it originally but threads later your still going on about it, how about you just admit we should cut him, and i'll admit it was dumb thinking Manziel could ever become a better pro/man playing behind a guy like Eli..
Of course Brown wants to get this behind him and if the 20 phone calls are true then he should be released.
There has to be others out there who are aware of this situation.
Why would ex-wife say how bad it was if she wants the money?
Very disappointed in Ben's comments.
Dark Dark day for Giant organization. If they know more which is true then drop him without any money otherwise make their information public.
Of course Brown wants to get this behind him and if the 20 phone calls are true then he should be released.
There has to be others out there who are aware of this situation.
Why would ex-wife say how bad it was if she wants the money?
Very disappointed in Ben's comments.
Dark Dark day for Giant organization. If they know more which is true then drop him without any money otherwise make their information public.
The investigation happened last year, and the charges were dropped. You can read about it.
We've seen that the Giants don't tolerate shit like this Â
So the fact that they backed him when the suspension it and haven't cut him immediately means something. Unless they were blindsided, which I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say no.
Not enough facts. In the absence of facts, people's speculations tend to be driven by their own personal biases. The comments here are more revealing of the individual's making them then they are illuminating of the situation.
Agree that the giants do not need the same level of proof to to cut him as a court would to convict. Also, agree that the Giants likely screwed up and did not have full awareness of this situation ae McAdoo states that he found out after he became head coach, which could be last week for all we know, and when asked if this info impacted the Giants'decision to sign him he punted the question saying that is a question for Jerry.
This makes me think the Giants screwed up and did not know about all of this. Also, I agree that if the new coach is going to talk a big game against domestic violence, he needs to be able to articulate why there are mitigating circumstances this time. He should stick to talking about football because that is his job and now justified or not, he looks foolish.
I hope all involved find peace amd can move forward, that said all I care about here is the Giants and I expect Brown to be cut and frankly it is not that big a loss.
McAdoo is gonna get grilled at his presser. Jerry is probably going to have a presser as well to answer questions about why the Giants decided to re-sign Brown... and Brown is going to have to answer some questions today as well.
in an interview for his charity, which gives money to cystic fibrosis research:
Quote:
Brown recently emerged from the toughest year of his life, which included a self-induced earthquake shattering of his marriage to his wife, Molly. Their relationship was on life-support, with divorce papers being filed.
“My wife didn’t feel like she was important to me and I allowed the environment to change me,” Brown said.
The environment that Brown is talking about is all too common within the world of NFL and being a professional athlete. An immature NFL player opens himself up to all kinds of problems, according to Brown.
“They allow the outside world’s judgement of you to be put on the pedestal, and it’s just not important,” Brown said. “Most men don’t become men because we fear losing what defines manhood to us whether that’s money, multiple women, cars, houses, power, and control. I had to go through that. Thank god for my wife. She said, ‘No more!’ She stood up for herself and it saved my life.”
“I’ve had to change the way that I think, the way that I’ve viewed people, my married life, my children, my role as a man,” Brown said.
Sounds like his relationship wasn't good at all with her.
Agree that the giants do not need the same level of proof to to cut him as a court would to convict. Also, agree that the Giants likely screwed up and did not have full awareness of this situation ae McAdoo states that he found out after he became head coach, which could be last week for all we know, and when asked if this info impacted the Giants'decision to sign him he punted the question saying that is a question for Jerry.
This makes me think the Giants screwed up and did not know about all of this. Also, I agree that if the new coach is going to talk a big game against domestic violence, he needs to be able to articulate why there are mitigating circumstances this time. He should stick to talking about football because that is his job and now justified or not, he looks foolish.
I hope all involved find peace amd can move forward, that said all I care about here is the Giants and I expect Brown to be cut and frankly it is not that big a loss.
For one thing, how is this on McAdoo? He can say whatever he wants, the decision to sign Brown was made last year, and I doubt McAddo, as a rookie head coach, has a say in the Front Office quite yet. So yes, questions should be directed at Reese and Mara. McAdoo doesn't handle contracts.
It sucks.. you don't want any of these allegations to be true and want to believe they're not. But at the same time, how awful it is to dismiss them if this woman really did deal with this type of abusive relationship. Either JB is a really awful guy or his ex wife needs mental help. There's really no ideal resolution here. Obviously as Giants fans we all hope everything is made up and that he didn't really do these things, but..
It still just seems weird to me for all of this to suddenly come out now. Especially with no charges filed for ANY of the things she claimed he had done.
I will be the first one to call for Brown's head if it turns out all of this is true but I can't just sit here and assume it is because that's not really fair either.
Agree that the giants do not need the same level of proof to to cut him as a court would to convict. Also, agree that the Giants likely screwed up and did not have full awareness of this situation ae McAdoo states that he found out after he became head coach, which could be last week for all we know, and when asked if this info impacted the Giants'decision to sign him he punted the question saying that is a question for Jerry.
This makes me think the Giants screwed up and did not know about all of this. Also, I agree that if the new coach is going to talk a big game against domestic violence, he needs to be able to articulate why there are mitigating circumstances this time. He should stick to talking about football because that is his job and now justified or not, he looks foolish.
I hope all involved find peace amd can move forward, that said all I care about here is the Giants and I expect Brown to be cut and frankly it is not that big a loss.
For one thing, how is this on McAdoo? He can say whatever he wants, the decision to sign Brown was made last year, and I doubt McAddo, as a rookie head coach, has a say in the Front Office quite yet. So yes, questions should be directed at Reese and Mara. McAdoo doesn't handle contracts.
Of course he can say whatever he wants. I say stick to the football.
And by the comments, it is a very emotional issue. A lot of the allegations in the article probably COULD be corroborated if they are indeed true - by talking to neighbors, the friends she said she asked for advice from, those who made repairs in the homes after the alleged incidents, police reports, - the medical reports would be harder to come by unless the ex-wife authorized their release. I do think the details were more specific than if she were making things up, though if she were assaulted while she was pregnant, I think she would absolutely remember how far along she was specifically at the time - that part I thought was a bit strange.
As others have noted, we are likely not going to ever know the real and full story here. As also noted, the ex-wife has incentive to not ruin Brown's career as she would lose out on child support - and I'm not even talking about alimony or whatever else she may have got from the divorce - just the child support at least. We haven't heard about any of this before now so she certainly wasn't blowing this up in the media trying to get something out of it. And actually, 2015 isn't that long ago considering that they are now divorced - I'm not sure when the divorce was finalized but the process certainly could have started right after the incident in question.
So, when facts are missing or are uncorroborated, emotion and gut instinct tend to fill in the gaps. I have known of people falsely accused and of victims not taken seriously - it happens on both sides and sucks no matter what. Given what I have read, I do not believe Brown to be innocent here. I think he should be cut.
that difficult to wait for facts to be confirmed before making definitive judgments one way or another?
Because it really seems that way sometimes. Brown has been in the appeals process for this situation for 6 months, but now the public hears snippets, they are ready to castrate him, yet the only thing that's changed from today vs. last week is people read an article.
I don't know why it is so difficult to have people hear the facts (and yes, that might mean not us, but others in charge) and have them make an informed decision instead of running around with pitchforks. If allegations are true, he'll be cut. But doing it today serves little purpose vs. doing it in due time.
I can't be bothered to go through 3 pages of comments, but I love how all of a sudden the press is making this about Ben McAdoo. Typical of this wonderful society in which we now live, it's always someone else's fault. How is this a reflection of Ben McAdoo? I know the press thinks they know all the facts, but they don't and are not equipped or qualified to pass judgement.
Based on the allegations, Josh Brown has some serious anger issues with which he needs to address. Additionally, it sounds like this was a volatile relationship where both parties were agitators (is it possible the tossing of the mail that was portrayed as being brushed off the desk was actually thrown at Josh Brown?). This sounds to me more like mental violence than physical violence which opens another whole can of worms. Neither is acceptable, but one is harder to prove than the other. Just my 2 cents.
This story has absolutely nothing to do with Josh Brown... Â
but it is a story about domestic violence that's been on the news. The divorce settlement of Johnny Depp and Amber Heard was donated to charity to help women suffering through domestic violence. Good for her for donating the entire settlement of $7 million.
Quote:
Los Angeles (CNN)Amber Heard has made good on her promise to give the millions she received from her divorce settlement with Johnny Depp to charity.
Heard distributed her $7 million settlement between two organizations -- Children's Hospital of Los Angeles and the ACLU, which will put its portion of the funds toward efforts to stop violence against women.
"As described in the restraining order and divorce settlement, money played no role for me personally and never has, except to the extent that I could donate it to charity and, in doing so, hopefully help those less able to defend themselves," Heard said in a statement via her publicist. "This is over and above any funds that I have given away in the past and will continue to give away in the future."
Heard and Depp came to the settlement on Tuesday, one day before they were scheduled to appear in court.
Agree that the giants do not need the same level of proof to to cut him as a court would to convict. Also, agree that the Giants likely screwed up and did not have full awareness of this situation ae McAdoo states that he found out after he became head coach, which could be last week for all we know, and when asked if this info impacted the Giants'decision to sign him he punted the question saying that is a question for Jerry.
This makes me think the Giants screwed up and did not know about all of this. Also, I agree that if the new coach is going to talk a big game against domestic violence, he needs to be able to articulate why there are mitigating circumstances this time. He should stick to talking about football because that is his job and now justified or not, he looks foolish.
I hope all involved find peace amd can move forward, that said all I care about here is the Giants and I expect Brown to be cut and frankly it is not that big a loss.
For one thing, how is this on McAdoo? He can say whatever he wants, the decision to sign Brown was made last year, and I doubt McAddo, as a rookie head coach, has a say in the Front Office quite yet. So yes, questions should be directed at Reese and Mara. McAdoo doesn't handle contracts.
Of course he can say whatever he wants. I say stick to the football.
It's really easy to say that, but what is the man supposed to say when he's questioned about what he would do if one of his players had an DV issue?
If he says 'I'd rather stick to football', he gets crucified too, and you know that. The only right and acceptable answer is what he said.
And, again, he's right to refer questions about Brown to the front office. This isn't Tom Coughlin, who had his imprint on every facet of the organization. This is a rookie head coach with potential, but no resume to stand on to speak for the franchise.
It sucks.. you don't want any of these allegations to be true and want to believe they're not. But at the same time, how awful it is to dismiss them if this woman really did deal with this type of abusive relationship. Either JB is a really awful guy or his ex wife needs mental help. There's really no ideal resolution here. Obviously as Giants fans we all hope everything is made up and that he didn't really do these things, but..
It still just seems weird to me for all of this to suddenly come out now. Especially with no charges filed for ANY of the things she claimed he had done.
I will be the first one to call for Brown's head if it turns out all of this is true but I can't just sit here and assume it is because that's not really fair either.
What's considered sufficient evidence? If the story in the OP is corroborated by the guys named (it would be for me)?
Maybe the Giants made calls and it was disproven. I think the Giants owe an explanation at the least. This board (not you specifically, arc - I don't recall your opinion on him) loves piling on Roethlisberger who wasn't charged either.
It feels like there's a high bar that's only set because 'Giants!' that wouldn't otherwise be there if this was an Eagle or Cowboy.
It is the people who want to make a decision today, but the only decision being proposed is to cut him.
I don't see the benefit by cutting him today instead of when the story can be verified (or debunked). If you cut him today and the story is debunked, basically you let rumor win over fact.
Agree that the giants do not need the same level of proof to to cut him as a court would to convict. Also, agree that the Giants likely screwed up and did not have full awareness of this situation ae McAdoo states that he found out after he became head coach, which could be last week for all we know, and when asked if this info impacted the Giants'decision to sign him he punted the question saying that is a question for Jerry.
This makes me think the Giants screwed up and did not know about all of this. Also, I agree that if the new coach is going to talk a big game against domestic violence, he needs to be able to articulate why there are mitigating circumstances this time. He should stick to talking about football because that is his job and now justified or not, he looks foolish.
I hope all involved find peace amd can move forward, that said all I care about here is the Giants and I expect Brown to be cut and frankly it is not that big a loss.
For one thing, how is this on McAdoo? He can say whatever he wants, the decision to sign Brown was made last year, and I doubt McAddo, as a rookie head coach, has a say in the Front Office quite yet. So yes, questions should be directed at Reese and Mara. McAdoo doesn't handle contracts.
Of course he can say whatever he wants. I say stick to the football.
It's really easy to say that, but what is the man supposed to say when he's questioned about what he would do if one of his players had an DV issue?
If he says 'I'd rather stick to football', he gets crucified too, and you know that. The only right and acceptable answer is what he said.
And, again, he's right to refer questions about Brown to the front office. This isn't Tom Coughlin, who had his imprint on every facet of the organization. This is a rookie head coach with potential, but no resume to stand on to speak for the franchise.
Yeah, you have to master the non-answer, tough to do. I do think Brown will ne cut though.
It sucks.. you don't want any of these allegations to be true and want to believe they're not. But at the same time, how awful it is to dismiss them if this woman really did deal with this type of abusive relationship. Either JB is a really awful guy or his ex wife needs mental help. There's really no ideal resolution here. Obviously as Giants fans we all hope everything is made up and that he didn't really do these things, but..
It still just seems weird to me for all of this to suddenly come out now. Especially with no charges filed for ANY of the things she claimed he had done.
I will be the first one to call for Brown's head if it turns out all of this is true but I can't just sit here and assume it is because that's not really fair either.
What's considered sufficient evidence? If the story in the OP is corroborated by the guys named (it would be for me)?
Maybe the Giants made calls and it was disproven. I think the Giants owe an explanation at the least. This board (not you specifically, arc - I don't recall your opinion on him) loves piling on Roethlisberger who wasn't charged either.
It feels like there's a high bar that's only set because 'Giants!' that wouldn't otherwise be there if this was an Eagle or Cowboy.
As fans, we probably will never get all the details or the evidence we'd need to truly make an informed opinion on the matter but if others do come forward and confirm what was reported in the article, it will be tough to look the other way. I do think the Giants likely are and have been aware of more than just the initial incident that was reported on Wednesday.
I think fans are obviously more inclined to think Giants players are innocent until proven guilty while simultaneously employing the reverse mindset for players on rival teams. I try not to do that but it doesn't surprise me that it happens.
Not enough facts. In the absence of facts, people's speculations tend to be driven by their own personal biases. The comments here are more revealing of the individual's making them then they are illuminating of the situation.
...plenty of football players (and men more generally) are assholes and are capable of violence against women. And plenty of women are malicious and conniving.
I don't know who's right or wrong, but over the years I've learned that you often can't go wrong assuming the worst about people.
I have not listened to the tape but from my experience in DV cases, it sometimes happens that one spouse accuses the other of DV in order to have the other spouse removed from the marital home. This gives the "victim" spouse a strategic advantage in the divorce proceeding. I am not saying that happened here but the description of that tape gave me a hint of that being the case. When I get time I will listen to the tape.
That would be one reason for a spouse to exaggerate DV claim.
.
This happened to me during my divorce. My ex called the cops and claimed DV. The cops by law had to remove me from the house even though I did nothing. I did the same thing that Josh did. I wouldn't leave without my daughter. I wasn't leaving her with her crazy mother. The only thing that saved me was my brave daughter standing up to her mother and telling the truth. It back fired on her, I now have complete custody.
It brings to mind a different violent confrontation Â
George Zimmerman - Trayvon Martin. Different versions of facts, people taking emotionally-charged opinions and positions based on their own preconceived biases.
And, on a fair reading of the situation, what did it turn out to be? Two buffoons whose collective stupidity led to a tragic result.
Thankfully, this didn't get to that point. But, again, it's impossible to take any kind of position here based on snippets of the situation taken from one police report.
Not enough facts. In the absence of facts, people's speculations tend to be driven by their own personal biases. The comments here are more revealing of the individual's making them then they are illuminating of the situation.
Winner of the thread.
Yes, I think there's a lot of truth to that. In my case, I remember very vividly the horrible accusations that were made against my uncle by the evil bitch he was married to. She had nothing to gain other than enjoyment at the ordeal she put him through by forcing him to go through the long process of defending himself and having her accusation thrown out with prejudice by the judge. I'm sure it was still worth it for her, though, because she made him suffer. The same could be true in this case. When a relationship goes bad, people can be capable of almost anything. That's why I think the pitchforks should be kept in the shed for the time being until more concrete information comes to light.
George Zimmerman - Trayvon Martin. Different versions of facts, people taking emotionally-charged opinions and positions based on their own preconceived biases
A rush to judgement that had people calling Zimmerman white and then the more muted "White Hispanic" because they simply couldn't even wait for his ethnicity to be known before running with a story.
Not looking good for Josh. The fact that she was able to get a restraining order previously, and that he initially resisted the cops, leads me to believe where there's smoke there's fire.
In the end I just want to know the truth. There should be an investigation. I don't need beyond a reasonable doubt either. If the preponderance of evidence suggests he was violent with his wife more than a few times I would like him to be cut. No place for men like that on our team.
The wife is a psych patient in waiting and her 16 year old son is an asshole? What if Brown is the victim here? The guy is always presumed guilty in domestic issues and that is soooooo wrong!
And that's not an indictment of Brown. Maybe he's a violent POS. Maybe he deserves the opportunity to defend himself. Not debating the merits of the accusations against him or him as human being. But in today's NFL I can't see the Giants letting this follow them around much longer.
The wife is a psych patient in waiting and her 16 year old son is an asshole? What if Brown is the victim here? The guy is always presumed guilty in domestic issues and that is soooooo wrong!
Again, what we know is this..
1)There is documentation of police being called and dispatched to the Brown household on consecutive nights
2) In the police report Brown's ex-wife claims 20 incidents of abuse among other things
3) Officers note that Brown's ex-wife looked visibly shaken and fearful of her husband
4) Officers note that Brown was initially uncooperative with them until physically induced to comply
5) The ex-wife doesn't seem to have sought attention from this incident
6) The couple is now divorced
7) The NFL conducted an investigation and ruled to punish Brown
Sure, taken in a vacuum notes 1 & 2 amount to hearsay claims initiated by Brown's ex-wife. Troubling in themselves but granted, hearsay. When we then account for points 3 & 4 I begin to lean a bit more heavily towards believing that something inappropriate occurred. Unless these officers are horrible judges of behavioral cues, the ex-wife is a terrific actress, and Brown was aggitated enough by police to object to their orders then I'm not sure how you could draw the conclusion that this amounts to simple hearsay. Finally, when adding in points 5,6, and 7 I find that the path of least resistance in logic is to conclude that Brown probably acted unethically.
Since you took the time to delineate your points concisely and absent of vitriol I will respond.
Let me first note that your clear headed response above prompted me to reread the article and listen, as best as I could hear it, to the recorded 911 call that brought the police to the Brown residence and place him under arrest.
Before that though I'd like to clarify a few points.
1) I am not "defending" Brown. I have objected, strongly and vociferously, to those who called for his immediate dismissal from the team. I strongly oppose the rush to judgement, on either side. Meaning I also have no intention to dismiss his wife's allegations as fictions of a raging bitch with an agenda, either.
2) While I have no better knowledge of this case than what is presented in the obviously very partial article (hell it contains an embedded link to Gary Myers's piece "The Giants Should Cut Brown Now".) I have had the personal experience unfortunately of growing up in a toxic environment with a mentally and physically abusive father who abused both my mother and my brothers and I. In retrospect (but it took many, many years to accept it) he was mentally ill. Not to the point of dysfunction in the workaday world, but MI is always a question of degree. He certainly was socially dysfunctional - to the point where he alienated eventually all of his 4 brothers and sister, his friends, etc. He died a man with virtually zero friends. Only one of his siblings attended his funeral, even. And one old friend from college that he hadn't seen in years...
At the urging of my wife I forgave him late in life and he was a good grandpa to my daughters. They only know him as good, and I'm happy for that.
2A) Aside from growing up with my father, my first truly long term relationship (5 years) that ended in breaking off our engagement (we really were good friends and not "in love" enough to peruse marriage with each other) was with a woman who had suffered far worse domestic abuse than I had. She had been raped repeatedly by her stepfather.
Point 2 being I believe I am sensitive to and sympathetic with women who suffer abuse of any sort.
3) I find the Daily News article as written reprehensible. While it sticks to reporting the information the author collected accurately, it also - by the nature of the information collected - smears Josh Brown to the point where now there are many articles published in various sources repeating this information with various twists of "why was the NFL so lenient?" and calls for more severe punishment - without of course having ANY information about the NFL's own probe or about why the DA's office dismissed the charges after only 5 days, a relatively short time to dismissal IMO. Perhaps one of the attorneys here could comment on that. It is ridiculously unfair to suggest what the Giants' team officials should do in response to the information, especially in light of the league's official penalty levied on Brown.
4) Though I maintain my previous position of not passing judgement until more facts are available, I am very troubled by a few parts of the information revealed. Thank goodness the couple have divorced since that phone call to the police was called in.
Now to Burberry's points:
1 & 2) BE admits himself are simply words out of Molly Brown's mouth with ZERO corroborating evidence. BM admits this himself, no need to comment on them further.
3) Troubles me the most. The officers noted that Molly "looked visibly shaken and fearful of her husband." I don't think it's easy to play act and fool the investigating officers. Even though there is nothing in the report about corroborating evidence, and it may well be that Brown's actions that night were nothing more than verbally threatening (if that even), the fact that the woman, crazy though she might be and possibly wrong in perceiving any threat from Brown, the fact the she was quite possibly or likely afraid alone is damning. If Brown was the least bit sensitive to his wife's reaction - again valid and justified or not - he should have walked out that door and gotten some air, and given her some air too. It was more important for Josh Brown to be sensitive that night, than to be "right."
4) I think you are making a hullabaloo about zip. Cops tend to be over sensitive themselves to anyone who doesn't react to their demands like a marine recruit to his drill sergeant. One interpretation of their report is simply that the seated and frustrated Josh Brown didn't leap to his feet instantly at their 1st command. How patient they were for him to react, how and if (even) they repeated the command, if they were polite or playing tough with him (when in fact he was seated and posing probably no threat to anyone once they arrived) is unknown. I don't automatically give the police a pass here, based on too numerous cases we know of police ineptitude - or at the very least a lack of courtesy which might have elicited a different response from JB.
5) So the ex-wife's hasn't "sought attention." What does that prove, or even suggest? Yes it's possible she was fearful of her husband. It's also possible she didn't "seek attention" because she was making up or at least exaggerating stories to hurt Brown and influence or simply expedite their divorce proceedings, too.
6) The couple have (since the incident) divorced. How exactly does that prove or even point to JB's presumed guilt? They were a toxic couple, good thing they divorced, quite possibly end of story. There isn't any specific info about how or why they divorced, beyond once again the ex-wife's specific allegations...
7) The NFL - after a presumably thorough and lengthy investigation with more resources ($$$) levied punishment against JB. Yeah, one whopping single game. Smoke pot and you get 4... If anything, that suggests Brown was a hot head in a troubled marriage that lost his cool rather than walk out the door.
I am not "blaming the victim."
But I sure as hell am not ready to send JB to the gallows, either, without knowing more.
That does it for me on this subject and this thread.
Certainly would need to know more to decide to dump Brown, or in fact to reinstate him after the NFL's suspension is over.
Molly Brown's comments to police -- according to documents obtained by ESPN -- followed Josh Brown's May 2015 arrest on a charge of assault in the fourth degree/domestic violence. She said police were called to their residences more than 10 times and that he sent a letter in April 2014 to friends admitting abusive behavior and lying to make her look bad.
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The Giants were aware of the police being called to their residence in Hoboken, New Jersey, in 2014-15, Molly Brown said. She said the owners of the apartment they were renting were trying to blackmail the couple, and the Giants' attorneys "basically did what they needed to do to make the guy go away."
It's fucking despicable that people are talking shit about Molly Brown in this case. She isn't going to the media, she isn't making a big deal out of it, yet people are saying to "read between the lines", calling her a psycho, and making this a judgement on HER character.
Again, this is separate from however you feel about Brown - but you people trying to shit on her are acting horrendously, and you guys ARE the problem. You guys are the reason that women don't come forward in abusive situations.
Do I know what happened? No, I don't - but I certainly know there isn't enough information out there to make a judgement on HER character...particularly when you also summarily dismiss any evidence that Brown was indeed abusive.
There's history and circumstantial evidence against Brown, but to some, the mere fact that Molly Brown opened her mouth makes HER the bad guy in this scenario.
I'm not saying Josh Brown is a bad person or there is hard evidence against him. It's just bizarre how quickly people are willing to jump all over her when nobody knows what happened yet.
If the details in this story are true, the question is, did the Giants know...if not, how could they not, and if so, why is he still on the team?
Either way, kicker tryouts should start tomorrow.
Please tell me you're being sarcastic, Carl.
Are you a criminal defense lawyer?
To hell with domestic abusers and tough guys who take on woman and kids.
It started when his then-wife became pregnant? Even better, jerk wad.
Two real winners.
WTF is wrong with you assholes? White nights?
Every single line and report in that story starts with "she said..."
The DA never filed charges...
Nothing like the rush to judgement here from folks who can't read critically.
EVERY LINE WAS "SHE SAID".
How about hearing something like "police noted bruises" or "hospital records confirmed contusions" because what's reported in that article is in fact literally "hearsay" and one side of the story.
Nice bolt on though in that photo of her it looks like...
Quote:
anger management weather he's married or not. If he doesn't go or do well, bye-bye.
WTF is wrong with you assholes? White nights?
Every single line and report in that story starts with "she said..."
The DA never filed charges...
Nothing like the rush to judgement here from folks who can't read critically.
EVERY LINE WAS "SHE SAID".
How about hearing something like "police noted bruises" or "hospital records confirmed contusions" because what's reported in that article is in fact literally "hearsay" and one side of the story.
Nice bolt on though in that photo of her it looks like...
Blue Lou you're argument would be easier to digest if you take a walk around the block and relax before posting. Cripes man
Quote:
anger management weather he's married or not. If he doesn't go or do well, bye-bye.
WTF is wrong with you assholes? White nights?
Every single line and report in that story starts with "she said..."
The DA never filed charges...
Nothing like the rush to judgement here from folks who can't read critically.
EVERY LINE WAS "SHE SAID".
How about hearing something like "police noted bruises" or "hospital records confirmed contusions" because what's reported in that article is in fact literally "hearsay" and one side of the story.
Nice bolt on though in that photo of her it looks like...
Also, for injuries in arm from being thrown into the mirror and on the floor that caused her pain for months, you would think a single mention to her doctor complaining of soreness would be noted over that same time period. And as for "Genuinely, getting in her son's face". WTF does that mean? A 16 yo is closer to being a man than a helpless boy.
The Giants need to immediately do some due diligence. But if these allegations are correct then he needs to be immediately released. The allegation that he got angry when his wife was pregnant is particularly evil.
Who give a crap about a busted door? Shit is made so cheaply that it doesn't take a tremendous force to break a door jam and to take a door off the hinges.
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anger management weather he's married or not. If he doesn't go or do well, bye-bye.
WTF is wrong with you assholes? White nights?
Every single line and report in that story starts with "she said..."
The DA never filed charges...
Nothing like the rush to judgement here from folks who can't read critically.
EVERY LINE WAS "SHE SAID".
How about hearing something like "police noted bruises" or "hospital records confirmed contusions" because what's reported in that article is in fact literally "hearsay" and one side of the story.
Nice bolt on though in that photo of her it looks like...
A) is being accused by his wife of more than 20 incidents of physical abuse B) has the police detail that she "appeared to be genuinely afraid of her husband (Brown)" after two consecutive nights of having been called to their residence
C) resisted arrest until physically forced to comply with officers
D) was reprimanded over a year later by a league under perhaps the most intense microscope regarding domestic violence. Do you think just maybe the NFL exercised their due diligence to ensure that they got this right?
But you'd rather cling to the ridiculous notion that because the case was dropped by county prosecuters Josh Brown must be innocent. Nevermind that it's incredibly difficult to move forward with charges when the victim is unwilling to cooperate, which in the case of battered women is quite typical. It's not as if a woman that may have been assaulted 20 times prior without speaking up wouldn't have a documented history of not voicing her abuse to authorities.
Stick to the wine game and creepily surveying your niece.
The last comment is particularly interesting because he says in his press conference that he wants to go home to be with his daughter. He and his wife are currently divorced so does he have custody of the daughter ? Thats interesting to say the least.
Why haven't ANY charges been filed by the DA?
Does everyone imagine the police didn't properly investigate?
Was the ex-wife's home examined for the damage she claimed he did?
And yeah, what does it mean "he got in his (16 year old) son's face"? Is that some kind of crime? Now it's a crime to "get in your child's face"?
Frankly, I smell a woman with an agenda. Not sure what her agenda is (money?) but it sure seems like a rush to judgement by most here in response to claims that are literally hearsay.
Maybe Brown beat her, and maybe not. I'm thinking he's innocent until proven guilty.
Who give a crap about a busted door? Shit is made so cheaply that it doesn't take a tremendous force to break a door jam and to take a door off the hinges.
A) is being accused by his wife of more than 20 incidents of physical abuse
Thats another thing. She accused him of these 20 incidents over a year ago. Don't you think the NFL investigated that allegation ? Don't you think that if there was any evidence of that allegation Brown would have been suspended for a lot longer ? Keep in mind the NFL doesn't need proof beyond a reasonable doubt
Maybe Brown beat her, and maybe not. I'm thinking he's innocent until proven guilty.
Did it happen 20 times?
Quote:
In comment 13076726 mrvax said:
Quote:
anger management weather he's married or not. If he doesn't go or do well, bye-bye.
WTF is wrong with you assholes? White nights?
Every single line and report in that story starts with "she said..."
The DA never filed charges...
Nothing like the rush to judgement here from folks who can't read critically.
EVERY LINE WAS "SHE SAID".
How about hearing something like "police noted bruises" or "hospital records confirmed contusions" because what's reported in that article is in fact literally "hearsay" and one side of the story.
Nice bolt on though in that photo of her it looks like...
Lol. So folks are assholes for blistering a guy who...
A) is being accused by his wife of more than 20 incidents of physical abuse B) has the police detail that she "appeared to be genuinely afraid of her husband (Brown)" after two consecutive nights of having been called to their residence
C) resisted arrest until physically forced to comply with officers
D) was reprimanded over a year later by a league under perhaps the most intense microscope regarding domestic violence. Do you think just maybe the NFL exercised their due diligence to ensure that they got this right?
But you'd rather cling to the ridiculous notion that because the case was dropped by county prosecuters Josh Brown must be innocent. Nevermind that it's incredibly difficult to move forward with charges when the victim is unwilling to cooperate, which in the case of battered women is quite typical. It's not as if a woman that may have been assaulted 20 times prior without speaking up wouldn't have a documented history of not voicing her abuse to authorities.
Stick to the wine game and creepily surveying your niece.
Every objection I raised is legitimate.
As for referring to a comment I made what 2 years ago about having a gorgeous niece, who's the creep here?
Not to mention asshole or fuckstick.
Douche...
Yeah, fire the guy on the spot because of a bunch of she said...
And I guarantee you I know more about and have done more to stop domestic violence in my life than you have or will have done in the next 3 lifetimes. I fucking grew up with it punk, an abusive father...
You're the worst kind if bullshit keyboard righteous hero.
Why haven't ANY charges been filed by the DA?
Does everyone imagine the police didn't properly investigate?
Was the ex-wife's home examined for the damage she claimed he did?
And yeah, what does it mean "he got in his (16 year old) son's face"? Is that some kind of crime? Now it's a crime to "get in your child's face"?
Frankly, I smell a woman with an agenda. Not sure what her agenda is (money?) but it sure seems like a rush to judgement by most here in response to claims that are literally hearsay.
You smell a woman with an agenda? Please, expand upon what this woman has sought and/or stands to gain. The ex-wife has not spoken to the media from what I can tell and more or less allowed this incident to be brushed under the rug for over a year until the NFL proactively responded through their own investigation.
This isn't a case where the female blabs to the media/social media/courts/police/ect and you could rightfully wonder if there are ulterior motives. This is a case in which the female seemingly was exceedingly quite with regards to what she is claiming and was looking to exact almost nothing from the accused other than a separation for her safety.
This isn't rocket science.
- B in ALB
- B in ALB
He may have an identical twin she doesn't know about
Quote:
We don't even know the gender of the accuser !!!
- B in ALB
He may have an identical twin she doesn't know about
Oh look! Two idiot have aligned. Congrats!
A very good friend of mine who has never lifted a hand to harm anyone ever found himself in a situation like I was describing. He married into a family that owned car dealerships and he was involved with the business. Wife wanted out and schemed with her parents to divorce him while trying to keep him from having any part of the business. He is watching TV with his kids and the cops come to the door responding to a domestic violence call from the wife. She tried to do this multiple times and after a couple of years it was proven that she invented it all. I am sure there are a thousand stories like that.
Now, to the Giants and Brown... They need to find another kicker now. We don't know where this will end up and the Giants do not want to find themselves without a kicker in the middle of the season or leading into the playoffs.
Quote:
In comment 13076737 BlueLou said:
Quote:
In comment 13076726 mrvax said:
Quote:
anger management weather he's married or not. If he doesn't go or do well, bye-bye.
WTF is wrong with you assholes? White nights?
Every single line and report in that story starts with "she said..."
The DA never filed charges...
Nothing like the rush to judgement here from folks who can't read critically.
EVERY LINE WAS "SHE SAID".
How about hearing something like "police noted bruises" or "hospital records confirmed contusions" because what's reported in that article is in fact literally "hearsay" and one side of the story.
Nice bolt on though in that photo of her it looks like...
Lol. So folks are assholes for blistering a guy who...
A) is being accused by his wife of more than 20 incidents of physical abuse B) has the police detail that she "appeared to be genuinely afraid of her husband (Brown)" after two consecutive nights of having been called to their residence
C) resisted arrest until physically forced to comply with officers
D) was reprimanded over a year later by a league under perhaps the most intense microscope regarding domestic violence. Do you think just maybe the NFL exercised their due diligence to ensure that they got this right?
But you'd rather cling to the ridiculous notion that because the case was dropped by county prosecuters Josh Brown must be innocent. Nevermind that it's incredibly difficult to move forward with charges when the victim is unwilling to cooperate, which in the case of battered women is quite typical. It's not as if a woman that may have been assaulted 20 times prior without speaking up wouldn't have a documented history of not voicing her abuse to authorities.
Stick to the wine game and creepily surveying your niece.
Every objection I raised is legitimate.
As for referring to a comment I made what 2 years ago about having a gorgeous niece, who's the creep here?
Not to mention asshole or fuckstick.
Douche...
Yeah, fire the guy on the spot because of a bunch of she said...
And I guarantee you I know more about and have done more to stop domestic violence in my life than you have or will have done in the next 3 lifetimes. I fucking grew up with it punk, an abusive father...
You're the worst kind if bullshit keyboard righteous hero.
Keep sticking to the narrative that a female accuser, who has more or less helped sweep allegations under the rug in an age where she could easily blow this incident up, has ulterior motives. Yep, let's help this woman by digging up a year old incident, which may invoke painful experiences that she's clearly moved on from, and prod her to produce evidence to satiate BlueLou and fellow fans who would burn Zeke Elliot at the spike for anything similar.
You're spouting ignorant, borderline victim-shaming nonsense and you're getting called out on it.
Quote:
In comment 13076804 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
We don't even know the gender of the accuser !!!
- B in ALB
He may have an identical twin she doesn't know about
Oh look! Two idiot have aligned. Congrats!
Speaking of fabrication. Still waiting for this dope to show where i posted the Giants should obtain Johnny Manziel for Eli to tudor.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
Quote:
they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
Stop spewing your nonsense. Off the field behavior only matters when it pertains to division rivals. It wasn't LT's fault that the prostitute he screwed in the hotel was 16. But the Cowboys are evil for signing hardy
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
As much or more so than my take.
And as likely as your take is - that this ex-wife's wanted to keep this quiet and was afraid to go forward with pressing charges against her ex-husband for fear of reprisal - there are still other possibilities you are dismissing out of hand.
Unless you are a social worker or psychiatrist there's no way you have had the life experiences I have had regarding domestic violence and worse. But I don't rush to judgement, because I am not an a-hole willing to assume a bunch of "she saids" are facts, like you are.
You are jumping to a conclusion with zero hard evidence.
Going to be tough to stomach if this story grows.
A very good friend of mine who has never lifted a hand to harm anyone ever found himself in a situation like I was describing. He married into a family that owned car dealerships and he was involved with the business. Wife wanted out and schemed with her parents to divorce him while trying to keep him from having any part of the business. He is watching TV with his kids and the cops come to the door responding to a domestic violence call from the wife. She tried to do this multiple times and after a couple of years it was proven that she invented it all. I am sure there are a thousand stories like that.
Now, to the Giants and Brown... They need to find another kicker now. We don't know where this will end up and the Giants do not want to find themselves without a kicker in the middle of the season or leading into the playoffs.
Regarding the Giants doing their own due diligence...Coach McAdoo said that. He had no knowledge of the situation upon being hired. Our coach doesn't know that his kicker may be facing a suspension and were to expect that the Giants underwent reasonable due diligence here?
That said, fuck stains like est and Ned posting idiocy that I somehow support domestic violence is pretty fucked up.
I merely held that the original article left more questions than answers and was irresponsible considering the topic of domestic violence in today's sports.
Quote:
they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
Oh God...*facepalm*
I could be wrong tho.
What a brilliant well thought out response to a situation where none of us know or will ever know both sides of the story
Good job
Seems like a physco who Brown would pay off anymore today. She prob got rubbed the wrong way by the way Brown answered the question about being married today and he said " I am now divorced and that is permanent" like a boss
As much or more so than my take.
And as likely as your take is - that this ex-wife's wanted to keep this quiet and was afraid to go forward with pressing charges against her ex-husband for fear of reprisal - there are still other possibilities you are dismissing out of hand.
Unless you are a social worker or psychiatrist there's no way you have had the life experiences I have had regarding domestic violence and worse. But I don't rush to judgement, because I am not an a-hole willing to assume a bunch of "she saids" are facts, like you are.
You are jumping to a conclusion with zero hard evidence.
We had an impartial (I'd almost argue partial in that those expect the NFL to side with their player) source investigate an conclude that something inappropriate occurred.
Good man. All is well. Look forward to posting with you
Quote:
they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
They cut bait with Boley pretty quickly, despite the fact that he was a starter in a super bowl win. And you haven't heard or seen him around the franchise since. It's like he was never here.
Which makes me think perhaps that the Giants have the whole story, unlike us.
Quote:
And I said that last week. My apologies. I was mistaken. It was est1986. That was my fuck up. I was out of line coming at you with that Bullshit.
Good man. All is well. Look forward to posting with you
Cool brother. Thanks.
At the same time, because of how awful the alleged acts are, you don't want to assume someone's guilt without corroborating evidence because that label becomes impossible for the accused to shake even if it turns out to be false.
So I'll take the "cop out" position of "if what she said is true, then he's a scumbag who should be kicked off the team. "
Did she go out and buy extravagant stuff? Did she piss him off after he paid for a Hawaiian vacation.
Did she sleep with another guy?
You see taking stuff out of context can work both ways.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
Classy...
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In comment 13076796 Dave in Hoboken said:
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they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
Oh God...*facepalm*
That's all you got, you are either idealistic or oblivious!
In today's NFL if am investigation revealed 20 instances of domestic violence he would be suspended for at least a year probably much more.
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In comment 13076819 Carson53 said:
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In comment 13076796 Dave in Hoboken said:
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they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
Oh God...*facepalm*
.
That's all you got, you are either idealistic or oblivious!
Sorry. I don't speak moron.
I would hope anyone on the Giants would be treated as equally as anyone on the Cowboys when it comes to domestic violence.
There has to be more to the whole story - as I said above, it would be really surprising if it was really this bad and the Giants missed out on the info by failing to do proper due diligence when they first learned of the situation.
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In comment 13076796 Dave in Hoboken said:
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they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
They cut bait with Boley pretty quickly, despite the fact that he was a starter in a super bowl win. And you haven't heard or seen him around the franchise since. It's like he was never here.
Which makes me think perhaps that the Giants have the whole story, unlike us.
Actually they didn't cut bait quickly, re-check your facts!
'It's like he was never here'...I wouldn't go that far.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
Classy...
The point remains that if you're waiting for hard evidence then you may as will give up because the ex-wife has clearly moved on and hasn't looked to dredge up old demons. This doesn't exonerate Brown in a situation where the evidence seems to be tilted against his case.
Again, what we know is this..
1)There is documentation of police being called and dispatched to the Brown household on consecutive nights
2) In the police report Brown's ex-wife claims 20 incidents of abuse among other things
3) Officers note that Brown's ex-wife looked visibly shaken and fearful of her husband
4) Officers note that Brown was initially uncooperative with them until physically induced to comply
5) The ex-wife doesn't seem to have sought attention from this incident
6) The couple is now divorced
7) The NFL conducted an investigation and ruled to punish Brown
Sure, taken in a vacuum notes 1 & 2 amount to hearsay claims initiated by Brown's ex-wife. Troubling in themselves but granted, hearsay. When we then account for points 3 & 4 I begin to lean a bit more heavily towards believing that something inappropriate occurred. Unless these officers are horrible judges of behavioral cues, the ex-wife is a terrific actress, and Brown was aggitated enough by police to object to their orders then I'm not sure how you could draw the conclusion that this amounts to simple hearsay. Finally, when adding in points 5,6, and 7 I find that the path of least resistance in logic is to conclude that Brown probably acted unethically.
Sounds like your a moron who doesn't believe in getting both sides of a story
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In comment 13076832 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 13076819 Carson53 said:
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In comment 13076796 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
they would've gotten rid of him awhile ago, considering this stuff took place in 2015. He wouldn't have been here in training camp, and still here. They are keeping him.
.
The Giants didn't get rid of him, they actually re-signed
him instead....
Boley had a domestic violence issue when he was here too. John Jerry and his infamous teammates with the Fins.
It looks like Coach Mac has quickly learned
how to speak with a forked tongue too!
You can be a Giants fan, just don't think of them of having
this pristine reputation, that part is crapola.
Oh God...*facepalm*
.
That's all you got, you are either idealistic or oblivious!
Sorry. I don't speak moron.
You must speak asshat shit, like a few others,
speaking of morons. I just look at things the way they are.
If one speaks the truth, that makes him a moron, interesting
theory "Dave from Hoboken'. Oh my, LOL!
There has to be more to the whole story - as I said above, it would be really surprising if it was really this bad and the Giants missed out on the info by failing to do proper due diligence when they first learned of the situation.
That would be one reason for a spouse to exaggerate DV claim.
On the other hand her claim of a prior order of protection would suggest history of DV.
Like others have suggested, the NFL is very sensitive to these allegations and I would think they thoroughly investigated this before handing out discipline.
And go do you know the team doesn't know all of the evidence?
Do you really think they would have signed him to extension if he was a serial abuser)
1) He shouldn't be guilty until proven innocent
2) I'm sure the Giants have everything.
I agree with the people who see this as "he said, she said" with not enough detail to condemn Josh Brown (or his wife).
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I advocate cutting him - they can always re-sign him later if evidence vindicates him.
And go do you know the team doesn't know all of the evidence?
Do you really think they would have signed him to extension if he was a serial abuser)
I don't - but McAdoo saying he wasn't informed of any incidents regarding Brown makes me suspicious that they do/did. Plus, the suspension came down from the league instead of the Giants suspending him first.
I think the Giants fucked up here.
• Head coach Ben McAdoo said he did not learn of Brown's arrest until after he was named head coach in January. McAdoo did not specify when he first learned of the issue. When Brown was arrested, Tom Coughlin was head coach and McAdoo was the team's offensive coordinator.
• McAdoo said the Giants support the league's decision and their stance on personal conduct. McAdoo said he supports Brown "as a man, as a father and as a player," and he treats these types of situations on a case-by-case basis.
• When McAdoo was hired, he told The New York Post's Steve Serby in an interview that the one thing he would not tolerate is domestic violence. But McAdoo said his support for Brown does not change his stance. "I'm a father, I'm a husband, my stance on personal conduct stays the way it is, it stays consistent, it stays strong," McAdoo said. "But I think it's important, as an organization, and in the locker room, to take it on a case-by-case basis."
McAdoo would not go into details about the reason he is comfortable with Brown remaining on the team. "That's something that's private, and I'm not willing to discuss publicly."
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We don't even know the gender of the accuser !!!
- B in ALB
He may have an identical twin she doesn't know about
I think that's worded poorly, and maybe it's me: I interpret that as saying he didn't know until after he was hired - which could have been any time since, not necessarily in January.
I'd rather have Querns.
I think that's worded poorly, and maybe it's me: I interpret that as saying he didn't know until after he was hired - which could have been any time since, not necessarily in January.
I guess, either way, sounds like he, the Giants and the NFL investigated and thought it warranted just a 1-game suspension.
so given the scrutiny domestic violence in the NFL gets I'm thinking we don't have the whole story.
The Giants seem like a pretty conservative organization, and while pragmatic, this isn't like Eli or Odell Beckham if they felt it was a serious enough problem they'd have cut him IMO.
and they still might if any of this is a surprise, but I don't think the Giants were surprised by this, but that's just my opinion.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
Classy...
What do you expect from a Trump dick rider?
I think that's worded poorly, and maybe it's me: I interpret that as saying he didn't know until after he was hired - which could have been any time since, not necessarily in January.
At the end of the day the situation is what it is unless someone decides to provide more information, and it seems as if the major players (NPI) are incentivized to keep quiet.
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"Head coach Ben McAdoo said he did not learn of Brown's arrest until after he was named head coach in January. McAdoo did not specify when he first learned of the issue."
I think that's worded poorly, and maybe it's me: I interpret that as saying he didn't know until after he was hired - which could have been any time since, not necessarily in January.
I guess, either way, sounds like he, the Giants and the NFL investigated and thought it warranted just a 1-game suspension.
so given the scrutiny domestic violence in the NFL gets I'm thinking we don't have the whole story.
The Giants seem like a pretty conservative organization, and while pragmatic, this isn't like Eli or Odell Beckham if they felt it was a serious enough problem they'd have cut him IMO.
and they still might if any of this is a surprise, but I don't think the Giants were surprised by this, but that's just my opinion.
I hope you're right, of course. I think it's a bit disappointing McAdoo says it's a private matter after his DV posturing when hired. I think an explanation is owed when you retreat from a position like that.
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Just as the DA would to move forward with charges.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
Classy...
What do you expect from a Trump dick rider?
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In comment 13076893 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
"Head coach Ben McAdoo said he did not learn of Brown's arrest until after he was named head coach in January. McAdoo did not specify when he first learned of the issue."
I think that's worded poorly, and maybe it's me: I interpret that as saying he didn't know until after he was hired - which could have been any time since, not necessarily in January.
I guess, either way, sounds like he, the Giants and the NFL investigated and thought it warranted just a 1-game suspension.
so given the scrutiny domestic violence in the NFL gets I'm thinking we don't have the whole story.
The Giants seem like a pretty conservative organization, and while pragmatic, this isn't like Eli or Odell Beckham if they felt it was a serious enough problem they'd have cut him IMO.
and they still might if any of this is a surprise, but I don't think the Giants were surprised by this, but that's just my opinion.
I hope you're right, of course. I think it's a bit disappointing McAdoo says it's a private matter after his DV posturing when hired. I think an explanation is owed when you retreat from a position like that.
He (McAdoo) is being crucified on social media, as is Goodell.
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In comment 13076855 BlueLou said:
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Just as the DA would to move forward with charges.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
Classy...
What do you expect from a Trump dick rider?
So beta of you. Harambe would be so disappointed.
God you're pathetic.
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In comment 13076897 Kulish29 said:
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In comment 13076855 BlueLou said:
Quote:
Just as the DA would to move forward with charges.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
Classy...
What do you expect from a Trump dick rider?
So beta of you. Harambe would be so disappointed.
God you're pathetic.
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In comment 13076901 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
In comment 13076897 Kulish29 said:
Quote:
In comment 13076855 BlueLou said:
Quote:
Just as the DA would to move forward with charges.
As several others have noted, she could have plenty of reasons to lie or exaggerate her claims. Her husband losing a game check or three isn't as important to her as alimony and child support and whatever their real property settlement was.
And in divorce cases isn't the lower earning partner with custody if the children incentivized (is that a word?) to spend exorbitantly to make claims about maintaining her and her children's life styles? Doesn't filing false claims against her husband potentially benefit her in the divorce settlement process?
Do we know the timing of the accusations and the divorce proceedings?
Your stance is "getting called out" a lot more than mine, BTW, in case you're keeping count. In fact the only one "calling me out" is you, and you decided to resort to slime shoveling in the process.
Classy...
What do you expect from a Trump dick rider?
So beta of you. Harambe would be so disappointed.
God you're pathetic.
2/10
Thank you! That's exactly the ratio of bullshit to facts you've actually spouted off on this site.
Good for you admitting your ignorance.
"You led the opening sentence of your first post by calling people "assholes" for justifiably being upset and/or embarrassed by Josh Brown's actions. I'd say that amounts to some blanket slime shoveling."
I called people out for taking that article at face value when it was simply and literally a list of "she said."
As for shoveling slime, calling people assholes for their dumb knee jerk reactions to their own uncritical reading of a piss poor article doesn't compare with dredging up a 2 or more year old personal comment that some folks misinterpreted and other asswipes actually kept in memory.
You sir, are a shit stain, and basically a cretin to jump to the conclusions you jumped to from that article.
Read every single post in this thread and attempt to cipher the intelligent, balanced and cautious ones vs. the pitchforks and oil torches crowd... you like being the leader of the Lynch mob, great, stay with it under the guise of being sensitive to battered women. Phony.
Please tell me what you have done in real life for battered women, and I'll tell you what I have done - off line.
"You led the opening sentence of your first post by calling people "assholes" for justifiably being upset and/or embarrassed by Josh Brown's actions. I'd say that amounts to some blanket slime shoveling."
I called people out for taking that article at face value when it was simply and literally a list of "she said."
As for shoveling slime, calling people assholes for their dumb knee jerk reactions to their own uncritical reading of a piss poor article doesn't compare with dredging up a 2 or more year old personal comment that some folks misinterpreted and other asswipes actually kept in memory.
You sir, are a shit stain, and basically a cretin to jump to the conclusions you jumped to from that article.
Read every single post in this thread and attempt to cipher the intelligent, balanced and cautious ones vs. the pitchforks and oil torches crowd... you like being the leader of the Lynch mob, great, stay with it under the guise of being sensitive to battered women. Phony.
Please tell me what you have done in real life for battered women, and I'll tell you what I have done - off line.
If Josh Brown were an African American, we'd be reading nothing or, the exact opposite of what he's posting now. And that's a fact. Believe me.
Why is it different? Because Hardys domestic abuse was more aggressive than Browns alleged abuse? If you're a domestic abuser, you are a disgusting human being.
We all have mothers, some sisters, some daughters. Doesn't this make you guys sick? All cases can be different, sure, but it doesn't mean that if guilty, you're not just as much as a scumbag.
I realize you probably weren't meaning to speak legally, but it's not hearsay if she is describing what happened to her. You may not believe her - that's the "she said" part - but it's not hearsay.
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McAdoo is right, you have to treat these on a case by case basis. This isn't a Greg Hardy situation.
Why is it different? Because Hardys domestic abuse was more aggressive than Browns alleged abuse? If you're a domestic abuser, you are a disgusting human being.
That said, fuck stains like est and Ned posting idiocy that I somehow support domestic violence is pretty fucked up.
I merely held that the original article left more questions than answers and was irresponsible considering the topic of domestic violence in today's sports.
You are a cry baby and a asshole, lighten up. One picture as a joke and here you are still crying about it? Get over it. Was it really that offensive? I saw you bitch about it originally but threads later your still going on about it, how about you just admit we should cut him, and i'll admit it was dumb thinking Manziel could ever become a better pro/man playing behind a guy like Eli..
Interesting how all of this was kept silent for so long.
If Josh Brown were an African American, we'd be reading nothing or, the exact opposite of what he's posting now. And that's a fact. Believe me.
You sure about that?
Link - ( New Window )
There has to be others out there who are aware of this situation.
Why would ex-wife say how bad it was if she wants the money?
Very disappointed in Ben's comments.
Dark Dark day for Giant organization. If they know more which is true then drop him without any money otherwise make their information public.
Interesting how all of this was kept silent for so long.
So was the Rolling Stone UVA story, which turned out to be completely fabricated.
There has to be others out there who are aware of this situation.
Why would ex-wife say how bad it was if she wants the money?
Very disappointed in Ben's comments.
Dark Dark day for Giant organization. If they know more which is true then drop him without any money otherwise make their information public.
The investigation happened last year, and the charges were dropped. You can read about it.
The Giants have been aware of this since the arrest. This isn't news to them.
This makes me think the Giants screwed up and did not know about all of this. Also, I agree that if the new coach is going to talk a big game against domestic violence, he needs to be able to articulate why there are mitigating circumstances this time. He should stick to talking about football because that is his job and now justified or not, he looks foolish.
I hope all involved find peace amd can move forward, that said all I care about here is the Giants and I expect Brown to be cut and frankly it is not that big a loss.
“My wife didn’t feel like she was important to me and I allowed the environment to change me,” Brown said.
The environment that Brown is talking about is all too common within the world of NFL and being a professional athlete. An immature NFL player opens himself up to all kinds of problems, according to Brown.
“They allow the outside world’s judgement of you to be put on the pedestal, and it’s just not important,” Brown said. “Most men don’t become men because we fear losing what defines manhood to us whether that’s money, multiple women, cars, houses, power, and control. I had to go through that. Thank god for my wife. She said, ‘No more!’ She stood up for herself and it saved my life.”
“I’ve had to change the way that I think, the way that I’ve viewed people, my married life, my children, my role as a man,” Brown said.
Sounds like his relationship wasn't good at all with her.
This makes me think the Giants screwed up and did not know about all of this. Also, I agree that if the new coach is going to talk a big game against domestic violence, he needs to be able to articulate why there are mitigating circumstances this time. He should stick to talking about football because that is his job and now justified or not, he looks foolish.
I hope all involved find peace amd can move forward, that said all I care about here is the Giants and I expect Brown to be cut and frankly it is not that big a loss.
For one thing, how is this on McAdoo? He can say whatever he wants, the decision to sign Brown was made last year, and I doubt McAddo, as a rookie head coach, has a say in the Front Office quite yet. So yes, questions should be directed at Reese and Mara. McAdoo doesn't handle contracts.
It still just seems weird to me for all of this to suddenly come out now. Especially with no charges filed for ANY of the things she claimed he had done.
I will be the first one to call for Brown's head if it turns out all of this is true but I can't just sit here and assume it is because that's not really fair either.
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Agree that the giants do not need the same level of proof to to cut him as a court would to convict. Also, agree that the Giants likely screwed up and did not have full awareness of this situation ae McAdoo states that he found out after he became head coach, which could be last week for all we know, and when asked if this info impacted the Giants'decision to sign him he punted the question saying that is a question for Jerry.
This makes me think the Giants screwed up and did not know about all of this. Also, I agree that if the new coach is going to talk a big game against domestic violence, he needs to be able to articulate why there are mitigating circumstances this time. He should stick to talking about football because that is his job and now justified or not, he looks foolish.
I hope all involved find peace amd can move forward, that said all I care about here is the Giants and I expect Brown to be cut and frankly it is not that big a loss.
For one thing, how is this on McAdoo? He can say whatever he wants, the decision to sign Brown was made last year, and I doubt McAddo, as a rookie head coach, has a say in the Front Office quite yet. So yes, questions should be directed at Reese and Mara. McAdoo doesn't handle contracts.
Of course he can say whatever he wants. I say stick to the football.
As others have noted, we are likely not going to ever know the real and full story here. As also noted, the ex-wife has incentive to not ruin Brown's career as she would lose out on child support - and I'm not even talking about alimony or whatever else she may have got from the divorce - just the child support at least. We haven't heard about any of this before now so she certainly wasn't blowing this up in the media trying to get something out of it. And actually, 2015 isn't that long ago considering that they are now divorced - I'm not sure when the divorce was finalized but the process certainly could have started right after the incident in question.
So, when facts are missing or are uncorroborated, emotion and gut instinct tend to fill in the gaps. I have known of people falsely accused and of victims not taken seriously - it happens on both sides and sucks no matter what. Given what I have read, I do not believe Brown to be innocent here. I think he should be cut.
Because it really seems that way sometimes. Brown has been in the appeals process for this situation for 6 months, but now the public hears snippets, they are ready to castrate him, yet the only thing that's changed from today vs. last week is people read an article.
I don't know why it is so difficult to have people hear the facts (and yes, that might mean not us, but others in charge) and have them make an informed decision instead of running around with pitchforks. If allegations are true, he'll be cut. But doing it today serves little purpose vs. doing it in due time.
Based on the allegations, Josh Brown has some serious anger issues with which he needs to address. Additionally, it sounds like this was a volatile relationship where both parties were agitators (is it possible the tossing of the mail that was portrayed as being brushed off the desk was actually thrown at Josh Brown?). This sounds to me more like mental violence than physical violence which opens another whole can of worms. Neither is acceptable, but one is harder to prove than the other. Just my 2 cents.
Heard distributed her $7 million settlement between two organizations -- Children's Hospital of Los Angeles and the ACLU, which will put its portion of the funds toward efforts to stop violence against women.
"As described in the restraining order and divorce settlement, money played no role for me personally and never has, except to the extent that I could donate it to charity and, in doing so, hopefully help those less able to defend themselves," Heard said in a statement via her publicist. "This is over and above any funds that I have given away in the past and will continue to give away in the future."
Heard and Depp came to the settlement on Tuesday, one day before they were scheduled to appear in court.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 13076993 rocco8112 said:
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Agree that the giants do not need the same level of proof to to cut him as a court would to convict. Also, agree that the Giants likely screwed up and did not have full awareness of this situation ae McAdoo states that he found out after he became head coach, which could be last week for all we know, and when asked if this info impacted the Giants'decision to sign him he punted the question saying that is a question for Jerry.
This makes me think the Giants screwed up and did not know about all of this. Also, I agree that if the new coach is going to talk a big game against domestic violence, he needs to be able to articulate why there are mitigating circumstances this time. He should stick to talking about football because that is his job and now justified or not, he looks foolish.
I hope all involved find peace amd can move forward, that said all I care about here is the Giants and I expect Brown to be cut and frankly it is not that big a loss.
For one thing, how is this on McAdoo? He can say whatever he wants, the decision to sign Brown was made last year, and I doubt McAddo, as a rookie head coach, has a say in the Front Office quite yet. So yes, questions should be directed at Reese and Mara. McAdoo doesn't handle contracts.
Of course he can say whatever he wants. I say stick to the football.
It's really easy to say that, but what is the man supposed to say when he's questioned about what he would do if one of his players had an DV issue?
If he says 'I'd rather stick to football', he gets crucified too, and you know that. The only right and acceptable answer is what he said.
And, again, he's right to refer questions about Brown to the front office. This isn't Tom Coughlin, who had his imprint on every facet of the organization. This is a rookie head coach with potential, but no resume to stand on to speak for the franchise.
It still just seems weird to me for all of this to suddenly come out now. Especially with no charges filed for ANY of the things she claimed he had done.
I will be the first one to call for Brown's head if it turns out all of this is true but I can't just sit here and assume it is because that's not really fair either.
What's considered sufficient evidence? If the story in the OP is corroborated by the guys named (it would be for me)?
Maybe the Giants made calls and it was disproven. I think the Giants owe an explanation at the least. This board (not you specifically, arc - I don't recall your opinion on him) loves piling on Roethlisberger who wasn't charged either.
It feels like there's a high bar that's only set because 'Giants!' that wouldn't otherwise be there if this was an Eagle or Cowboy.
It is the people who want to make a decision today, but the only decision being proposed is to cut him.
I don't see the benefit by cutting him today instead of when the story can be verified (or debunked). If you cut him today and the story is debunked, basically you let rumor win over fact.
I'd be disappointed (and a bit surprised) if they knew this prior to re-signing him. It's rare for them to read the room so wrong.
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In comment 13077013 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 13076993 rocco8112 said:
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Agree that the giants do not need the same level of proof to to cut him as a court would to convict. Also, agree that the Giants likely screwed up and did not have full awareness of this situation ae McAdoo states that he found out after he became head coach, which could be last week for all we know, and when asked if this info impacted the Giants'decision to sign him he punted the question saying that is a question for Jerry.
This makes me think the Giants screwed up and did not know about all of this. Also, I agree that if the new coach is going to talk a big game against domestic violence, he needs to be able to articulate why there are mitigating circumstances this time. He should stick to talking about football because that is his job and now justified or not, he looks foolish.
I hope all involved find peace amd can move forward, that said all I care about here is the Giants and I expect Brown to be cut and frankly it is not that big a loss.
For one thing, how is this on McAdoo? He can say whatever he wants, the decision to sign Brown was made last year, and I doubt McAddo, as a rookie head coach, has a say in the Front Office quite yet. So yes, questions should be directed at Reese and Mara. McAdoo doesn't handle contracts.
Of course he can say whatever he wants. I say stick to the football.
It's really easy to say that, but what is the man supposed to say when he's questioned about what he would do if one of his players had an DV issue?
If he says 'I'd rather stick to football', he gets crucified too, and you know that. The only right and acceptable answer is what he said.
And, again, he's right to refer questions about Brown to the front office. This isn't Tom Coughlin, who had his imprint on every facet of the organization. This is a rookie head coach with potential, but no resume to stand on to speak for the franchise.
Yeah, you have to master the non-answer, tough to do. I do think Brown will ne cut though.
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It sucks.. you don't want any of these allegations to be true and want to believe they're not. But at the same time, how awful it is to dismiss them if this woman really did deal with this type of abusive relationship. Either JB is a really awful guy or his ex wife needs mental help. There's really no ideal resolution here. Obviously as Giants fans we all hope everything is made up and that he didn't really do these things, but..
It still just seems weird to me for all of this to suddenly come out now. Especially with no charges filed for ANY of the things she claimed he had done.
I will be the first one to call for Brown's head if it turns out all of this is true but I can't just sit here and assume it is because that's not really fair either.
What's considered sufficient evidence? If the story in the OP is corroborated by the guys named (it would be for me)?
Maybe the Giants made calls and it was disproven. I think the Giants owe an explanation at the least. This board (not you specifically, arc - I don't recall your opinion on him) loves piling on Roethlisberger who wasn't charged either.
It feels like there's a high bar that's only set because 'Giants!' that wouldn't otherwise be there if this was an Eagle or Cowboy.
As fans, we probably will never get all the details or the evidence we'd need to truly make an informed opinion on the matter but if others do come forward and confirm what was reported in the article, it will be tough to look the other way. I do think the Giants likely are and have been aware of more than just the initial incident that was reported on Wednesday.
I think fans are obviously more inclined to think Giants players are innocent until proven guilty while simultaneously employing the reverse mindset for players on rival teams. I try not to do that but it doesn't surprise me that it happens.
Winner of the thread.
I don't know who's right or wrong, but over the years I've learned that you often can't go wrong assuming the worst about people.
That would be one reason for a spouse to exaggerate DV claim.
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This happened to me during my divorce. My ex called the cops and claimed DV. The cops by law had to remove me from the house even though I did nothing. I did the same thing that Josh did. I wouldn't leave without my daughter. I wasn't leaving her with her crazy mother. The only thing that saved me was my brave daughter standing up to her mother and telling the truth. It back fired on her, I now have complete custody.
And, on a fair reading of the situation, what did it turn out to be? Two buffoons whose collective stupidity led to a tragic result.
Thankfully, this didn't get to that point. But, again, it's impossible to take any kind of position here based on snippets of the situation taken from one police report.
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Not enough facts. In the absence of facts, people's speculations tend to be driven by their own personal biases. The comments here are more revealing of the individual's making them then they are illuminating of the situation.
Winner of the thread.
Yes, I think there's a lot of truth to that. In my case, I remember very vividly the horrible accusations that were made against my uncle by the evil bitch he was married to. She had nothing to gain other than enjoyment at the ordeal she put him through by forcing him to go through the long process of defending himself and having her accusation thrown out with prejudice by the judge. I'm sure it was still worth it for her, though, because she made him suffer. The same could be true in this case. When a relationship goes bad, people can be capable of almost anything. That's why I think the pitchforks should be kept in the shed for the time being until more concrete information comes to light.
A rush to judgement that had people calling Zimmerman white and then the more muted "White Hispanic" because they simply couldn't even wait for his ethnicity to be known before running with a story.
Not looking good for Josh. The fact that she was able to get a restraining order previously, and that he initially resisted the cops, leads me to believe where there's smoke there's fire.
Maybe he should hire Ray Lewis to help deal with any witnesses.
Again, what we know is this..
1)There is documentation of police being called and dispatched to the Brown household on consecutive nights
2) In the police report Brown's ex-wife claims 20 incidents of abuse among other things
3) Officers note that Brown's ex-wife looked visibly shaken and fearful of her husband
4) Officers note that Brown was initially uncooperative with them until physically induced to comply
5) The ex-wife doesn't seem to have sought attention from this incident
6) The couple is now divorced
7) The NFL conducted an investigation and ruled to punish Brown
Sure, taken in a vacuum notes 1 & 2 amount to hearsay claims initiated by Brown's ex-wife. Troubling in themselves but granted, hearsay. When we then account for points 3 & 4 I begin to lean a bit more heavily towards believing that something inappropriate occurred. Unless these officers are horrible judges of behavioral cues, the ex-wife is a terrific actress, and Brown was aggitated enough by police to object to their orders then I'm not sure how you could draw the conclusion that this amounts to simple hearsay. Finally, when adding in points 5,6, and 7 I find that the path of least resistance in logic is to conclude that Brown probably acted unethically.
Since you took the time to delineate your points concisely and absent of vitriol I will respond.
Let me first note that your clear headed response above prompted me to reread the article and listen, as best as I could hear it, to the recorded 911 call that brought the police to the Brown residence and place him under arrest.
Before that though I'd like to clarify a few points.
1) I am not "defending" Brown. I have objected, strongly and vociferously, to those who called for his immediate dismissal from the team. I strongly oppose the rush to judgement, on either side. Meaning I also have no intention to dismiss his wife's allegations as fictions of a raging bitch with an agenda, either.
2) While I have no better knowledge of this case than what is presented in the obviously very partial article (hell it contains an embedded link to Gary Myers's piece "The Giants Should Cut Brown Now".) I have had the personal experience unfortunately of growing up in a toxic environment with a mentally and physically abusive father who abused both my mother and my brothers and I. In retrospect (but it took many, many years to accept it) he was mentally ill. Not to the point of dysfunction in the workaday world, but MI is always a question of degree. He certainly was socially dysfunctional - to the point where he alienated eventually all of his 4 brothers and sister, his friends, etc. He died a man with virtually zero friends. Only one of his siblings attended his funeral, even. And one old friend from college that he hadn't seen in years...
At the urging of my wife I forgave him late in life and he was a good grandpa to my daughters. They only know him as good, and I'm happy for that.
2A) Aside from growing up with my father, my first truly long term relationship (5 years) that ended in breaking off our engagement (we really were good friends and not "in love" enough to peruse marriage with each other) was with a woman who had suffered far worse domestic abuse than I had. She had been raped repeatedly by her stepfather.
Point 2 being I believe I am sensitive to and sympathetic with women who suffer abuse of any sort.
3) I find the Daily News article as written reprehensible. While it sticks to reporting the information the author collected accurately, it also - by the nature of the information collected - smears Josh Brown to the point where now there are many articles published in various sources repeating this information with various twists of "why was the NFL so lenient?" and calls for more severe punishment - without of course having ANY information about the NFL's own probe or about why the DA's office dismissed the charges after only 5 days, a relatively short time to dismissal IMO. Perhaps one of the attorneys here could comment on that. It is ridiculously unfair to suggest what the Giants' team officials should do in response to the information, especially in light of the league's official penalty levied on Brown.
4) Though I maintain my previous position of not passing judgement until more facts are available, I am very troubled by a few parts of the information revealed. Thank goodness the couple have divorced since that phone call to the police was called in.
Now to Burberry's points:
1 & 2) BE admits himself are simply words out of Molly Brown's mouth with ZERO corroborating evidence. BM admits this himself, no need to comment on them further.
3) Troubles me the most. The officers noted that Molly "looked visibly shaken and fearful of her husband." I don't think it's easy to play act and fool the investigating officers. Even though there is nothing in the report about corroborating evidence, and it may well be that Brown's actions that night were nothing more than verbally threatening (if that even), the fact that the woman, crazy though she might be and possibly wrong in perceiving any threat from Brown, the fact the she was quite possibly or likely afraid alone is damning. If Brown was the least bit sensitive to his wife's reaction - again valid and justified or not - he should have walked out that door and gotten some air, and given her some air too. It was more important for Josh Brown to be sensitive that night, than to be "right."
4) I think you are making a hullabaloo about zip. Cops tend to be over sensitive themselves to anyone who doesn't react to their demands like a marine recruit to his drill sergeant. One interpretation of their report is simply that the seated and frustrated Josh Brown didn't leap to his feet instantly at their 1st command. How patient they were for him to react, how and if (even) they repeated the command, if they were polite or playing tough with him (when in fact he was seated and posing probably no threat to anyone once they arrived) is unknown. I don't automatically give the police a pass here, based on too numerous cases we know of police ineptitude - or at the very least a lack of courtesy which might have elicited a different response from JB.
5) So the ex-wife's hasn't "sought attention." What does that prove, or even suggest? Yes it's possible she was fearful of her husband. It's also possible she didn't "seek attention" because she was making up or at least exaggerating stories to hurt Brown and influence or simply expedite their divorce proceedings, too.
6) The couple have (since the incident) divorced. How exactly does that prove or even point to JB's presumed guilt? They were a toxic couple, good thing they divorced, quite possibly end of story. There isn't any specific info about how or why they divorced, beyond once again the ex-wife's specific allegations...
7) The NFL - after a presumably thorough and lengthy investigation with more resources ($$$) levied punishment against JB. Yeah, one whopping single game. Smoke pot and you get 4... If anything, that suggests Brown was a hot head in a troubled marriage that lost his cool rather than walk out the door.
I am not "blaming the victim."
But I sure as hell am not ready to send JB to the gallows, either, without knowing more.
That does it for me on this subject and this thread.
Certainly would need to know more to decide to dump Brown, or in fact to reinstate him after the NFL's suspension is over.
ESPN - ( New Window )
Again, this is separate from however you feel about Brown - but you people trying to shit on her are acting horrendously, and you guys ARE the problem. You guys are the reason that women don't come forward in abusive situations.
Do I know what happened? No, I don't - but I certainly know there isn't enough information out there to make a judgement on HER character...particularly when you also summarily dismiss any evidence that Brown was indeed abusive.
There's history and circumstantial evidence against Brown, but to some, the mere fact that Molly Brown opened her mouth makes HER the bad guy in this scenario.
Awful