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Offensive Line - and TEs -

B in ALB : 8/20/2016 10:54 pm
I was debating whether to weigh in on this tonight but here goes. And granted - I did not watch the second half of today's game - I recorded it - so any spoilers left out are appreciated. Having played against and with some household names and coached both sides of the line I'd like to add some brief points if you'll bear with me.

It was not a good first half performance from the OL. That's easy to see. But I'm going to maintain some semblance of optimism for now (very little, holy shit) - especially considering it's the 2nd preseason game and honestly, they haven't really practiced as a cohesive unit...at all yet.

Line play - especially on the OL - is about the unit. It's not as easy as saying - "Flowers sucks!" "Hart got steamrolled!" "Richburg is garbage!" The whole is definitely, without question, no doubt about it greater than the sum of its parts - and the forest is greater than just its trees. It's about synergy and trust. Tonight we saw a unit that was at worst shape than the Giants' OL ending the 2015 season. And I can be somewhat optimistic because we will not see this unit comprised of its parts like today's game to start Game 1 in 2016. (pretty fucked up was to view it right? ugggh)

Flowers - the first thing I noticed was how stiff in the hips he was and how he seems to lack flexibility right from his first step. I was surprised to see this. He was reaching rather than establishing his base and punching through the defender. His bucket and kick step was short, forced, slow off the snap and oddly tentative. His kick step was so slow and short that the defender had no choice but to skinny either shoulder, rip low and surge. There was absolutely no reason to engage with Flowers tonight. He was a statue. And when his feet worked a bit, he failed with his hands and arms. Holding. He played really high in the torso and seemed to lunge at times - almost as if his legs, butt and hips were in complete disarray with his upper body. He seemed unsure in both stance and start. A really poor performance today. However, he was on a fast track, he's had limited snaps so far in a live environment, he played with a new LG and two TEs who had no fucking clue what they were doing. I didn't see a two-back set shaded strong where they allowed a back to chip or fit an oncoming rusher (are the Giants really going to do this without a FB at this point? - I'd be surprised if that doesn't change and something else is installed). Flowers was on an island in the truest sense of the term and he struggled. A good blocking TE (or one who knows what the fuck he's doing - we'll get to that in a bit) and his LG will help a ton.

Hart - he looked overmatched on the strong side and really had issues with his footwork and protection calls. Again, a lack of familiarity with his linemates, against a well-coached and hungry DLine foaming at the mouth to replace some knuckleheads - he was bad. The jury is definitely still out and I'll hold judgement until he proves otherwise at RG.

The right side of the line is a huge concern of mine. Cohesion, reps as a unit and honestly - talent and ability - along with the complete lack of any help from a blocking TE - and it's hard to see how this could possibly be a passable unit over a 16 game season. One of the posters - EricJ perhaps - mentioned his concerns about the right side of the line and how they should have signed three new players to augment a crew that struggled mightily over the last two seasons. I don't think he's wrong, folks.

Look - I wish I could come on here and say - Flowers lacked his linemate Pugh - as did Richburg and that's why they struggled. The weak side is a work in progress and it's only the second preseason game. Stay tuned.

BUT - when I see players like Will Tye not checking his protection and chopping his route - Nassib failing to call out a blitz and adjust the protection and the ensuing sack fumble...something ain't right. What is going on? How are they getting better in practice?

Donnell can't block a lick. Teams know this. They'll zone it, blitz, stunt, delay and roll all day long

This stuff from the TEs is easy. You learn this in JV and HS football. You don't just put your head in the dirt and run a stop route without checking your protection.

You don't lunge like a pop warner kid and hope you make contact in a space of 18 inches. Donnell looked like he's never played football before - he thought he was blocking a Jpad or a sled. Did he forget the count? Was he hung over? What the fuck was he doing out there? If I graded him tonight out I'd discuss cutting him. Awful.

So yes - I'm disappointed in tonight's performance and I'm starting to get concerned that the OL wasn't addressed with more vehemence and attention in the offseason - especially with the money available.

All that said, we have to rely on the experts in the room. The player personnel folks constructing the team. The scouts watching the film. The coaches evaluating the players. And the players performing.

It's early fellow Giants fans. Too early to call it a day. But it's getting fucking close. I hope that this was the wakeup call needed to right this ship. Just remember - it's only preseason.

Sorry for the length. It's all I can come up with at this late hour. I'll watch the game again and focus on some keys. Thanks for reading if you got all the way through.
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RE: RE: We're  
est1986 : 8/21/2016 6:51 pm : link
In comment 13080108 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13080104 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


treating B in ALB like a fucking O-Line connoisseur at this point?

How fall we've fallen....



And before you get your panties in a twist, that was a joke.

As I mentioned in another thread, not sure why we cut bait with Pope out of nowhere. Our TE blocking has gone to shit since then. Shockey, Boss, Marty B, all strong blockers.


As long as I'm not the only one that knows B in ALB wears panties and they tend to get easily twisted lol
resign Bear Pascoe  
Paulie Walnuts : 8/21/2016 7:22 pm : link
as a blocker when NEW England cuts him
RE: RE: RE: We're  
B in ALB : 8/21/2016 7:31 pm : link
In comment 13080536 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13080108 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13080104 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


treating B in ALB like a fucking O-Line connoisseur at this point?

How fall we've fallen....



And before you get your panties in a twist, that was a joke.

As I mentioned in another thread, not sure why we cut bait with Pope out of nowhere. Our TE blocking has gone to shit since then. Shockey, Boss, Marty B, all strong blockers.



As long as I'm not the only one that knows B in ALB wears panties and they tend to get easily twisted lol


Haha. Only on my head est.
Nate Chandler - LT  
mrvax : 8/21/2016 7:37 pm : link
is available but recovering from injury. I'd look into that.
Austin Wentworth - RT  
mrvax : 8/21/2016 7:39 pm : link
but is he still injured?
Tyler Polumbus - LT  
mrvax : 8/21/2016 7:41 pm : link
I wonder if he's injured?

There are a bunch to look into.
est  
B in ALB : 8/21/2016 7:45 pm : link
I'll be honest with you here. I grew up in a home filled with violence. I didnt take your joke well and I didn't appreciate it.
Honestly..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/21/2016 7:47 pm : link
this is the type of post I want to shove in people's faces when they claim that everyone is a pollyanna or people are loathe to criticize the players or coaches.

If every negative post was written with thought and insight, ther'd be a heck of a lot less complaining because there is a lot of meat in the OP to discuss instead of trying to dissect - McAdoo sucks!

Even radar would have a hard time taking contrarian stands on threads like this.

Bang up job and great insight!
RE: RE: Thanks B.  
SGMen : 8/21/2016 7:58 pm : link
In comment 13080222 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13079750 section125 said:


Quote:


Guys might be right about LaCosse being the best TE.




Lacosse's blocking yesterday can be described in a single word: "Ole'" He's definitely up for the Jonas Seawright Award this year. The only decent block I saw out of a TE yesterday was the block by Adams playing H-Back that Banks pointed out.

The OL had cohesion issues due to Pugh's absence and has little depth. The thought of in season injuries is very concerning.
It iis funny but TE Lacosse has done well in camp but only "so so" in the pre-season games. He needs to shine this week in all areas else it is the PS again.
Donnell isn't just a complete failure as a blocker.  
Mr. Bungle : 8/21/2016 8:30 pm : link
He inexplicably does forward rolls into tacklers in the open field, which is so fundamentally unsound, it boggles the mind that he ever made it to the pros with such a lack of basic running instincts.

And not only that, he's pulled up in routes and he's run many weak routes, causing interceptions and near-interceptions. So, he's not a superb (one-dimensional) receiving option, either.

That 3-TD first half in D.C. was nice and all. But outside of that unusual game, there are probably 40-50 tight ends in the NFL who offer more than Donnell does. He absolutely should not be the Giants' starting tight end. I'm not convinced he even deserves a roster spot.
I had to assume that  
SwirlingEddie : 8/21/2016 8:54 pm : link
the team was/is trying something new, scheme-wise and/or technique-wise. It was the only way I could process the blocking performance. Not only was it obviously bad, but players seemed to regress from last year.
Last year  
skifaster : 8/22/2016 9:57 am : link
I think one of the issues with the defense last year was the amount of time they had to play because the offense couldn't run the ball and control the clock.

Maybe this coming off season we can improve the offensive line so that we can keep the defense off the field.
Here's a telling still from the Buffalo game film  
Bluenatic : 8/22/2016 10:03 am : link
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