OL: What would you have done as GM?

Never an arrest, never a failed drug test.
The best player at a position of extreme need falls to us unexpectadly and all the room could think of is plqy it safe, remember!
So they froze.
Then they sign a significant free agent..at cornerback.

Was Beatty coming back and Flowers playing RT for his first few years.

Once we cut Beatty I figured we would,sign a LT and move Flowers to RT for the next 1-2 seasons.

has had issues for far longer than the pre-season. But yeah, panty waists!!!!111

In comment 13080117 grizz299 said:

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Never an arrest, never a failed drug test. The best player at a position of extreme need falls to us unexpectadly and all the room could think of is plqy it safe, remember! So they froze. Then they sign a significant free agent..at cornerback.

Tunsil was too much of a liability. We made the right choice.

You simply do,not draft a player in the top 10 with any issues.

Yeah it was only weed but who has time to,take a chance?

Draft Tunsil, put Flowers at RT (which is his more natural position).

or maybe offer Eugene Monroe the LT spot.

Never mind the countless offensive linemen I wanted in the draft.

I'm fine with passing on Tunsil.. Apple was impressive last week and I think he'll prove to be a good pick.

We made a push for Okung and Monroe... Okung went to DEN and Monroe retred.

I would have liked to sign Mitchell Schwartz but he's a RT.. so for everyone who is terribly displeased with Flowers so far, that would not have alleviated the issue.

And not pre-determine their position....but allow the coaches to determine the best 5 OL and where they would play.

There were several LTs .....that wanted to stay as LT....I would have said to them....no promises but do your best....the coaches will determine it

that's what you call concerns that the team still hasn't fixed the OL after about 5 straight years of bad OL performance (including 3 straight losing seasons) and with an aging franchise QB?

Other than the underwhelming crop of journeymen they brought in just prior to the draft. Pickings were slim, and the vast majority came with age or injury concerns. Mitchell Schwartz would have been a nice get, but he was gone pretty quickly. I don't know if we even made him an offer, or if he would've signed with us if we did.

I can also understand the Giants passing any O-Lineman in the draft. It's no secret that I was all about Jack Conklin, but the Titans had the juice to move ahead of us and draft him and, honestly, I don't know if the Giants would've taken him anyway. I would have drafted Apple over Tunsil or Decker, too, and for the next five rounds, I can't fault the Giants for any of their choices vs. the O-Linemen who were still on the board.

What really bugs me, though, and I've said it repeatedly, is how they could fail to bring in even one "Big Ugly" UDFAs. There were several available after the draft - I've posted the list before - that I believe would have, at the very least, improved the quality of our depth.

In comment 13080126 George from PA said:

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And not pre-determine their position....but allow the coaches to determine the best 5 OL and where they would play. There were several LTs .....that wanted to stay as LT....I would have said to them....no promises but do your best....the coaches will determine it

Ok, so which one of those LTs would have signed here, for less than LT money, to compete for the LT spot?

In comment 13080130 chris r said:

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that's what you call concerns that the team still hasn't fixed the OL after about 5 straight years of bad OL performance (including 3 straight losing seasons) and with an aging franchise QB?

You're basing this all after drafting Pugh, Richburg, and Flowers (who is BEGINNING his 2ND year), and two preseason games??????? You can't fix all this shit overnight.

had taken Tunsil but I believe ownership took him off the board. Same thing with Collins last year. GM doesn't have a totally free hand. The owners want to protect the image of the franchise.

In comment 13080120 TyFromQueens said:

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Tunsil was too much of a liability. We made the right choice. You simply do,not draft a player in the top 10 with any issues. Yeah it was only weed but who has time to,take a chance?

Ty, stop putting commas in your posts immediately! They are placed almost as if random.
Thanks.

panties in a bunch. Jesus tap dancing Christ........

That's hilarious.

As for free agents, I think Mitchell Schwartz would have been a great signing and I would have pursued him hard. He didn't exactly sign for cheap but it was well below the deals that Okung and Osemele signed. His cap number never goes over 6 and that's not until the back end of a 5 yr contract. With the Giants cap situation it wouldn't have prohibited them down the road. He's an ascending player and a prototypical RT, so the team could have stuck by their plan to develop Flowers as the LT of the future. 5 years/33 mill isn't a lot when it means you have your starting tackles for the rest of Eli's career.

The FA crop was pretty bare for RTs, but signing Schwartz and retaining Beatty would make the roster a lot deeper at a position of absolute weakness. Even just keeping Beatty would be an improvement. Who knows, maybe he fell off a cliff. I just have a hard time believing he's any worse than Newhouse.

If you're going to go get a major FA OL tell me what major defensive FA you aren't going to get. And it's not just a money factor. You can only sign so many players. There just isn't the time and resources to sign everyone you like. Reese said even he was pleased he got all of his top FA choices to sign. So make a choice but it should be realistic in terms of overall FA acquisitions.

In comment 13080137 MBavaro said:

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In comment 13080130 chris r said: Quote: that's what you call concerns that the team still hasn't fixed the OL after about 5 straight years of bad OL performance (including 3 straight losing seasons) and with an aging franchise QB? You're basing this all after drafting Pugh, Richburg, and Flowers (who is BEGINNING his 2ND year), and two preseason games??????? You can't fix all this shit overnight.

How many year would you like? 10?

The last gasp from last good OL was the Super Bowl in 2011. Since then, they've added three starters. One of which is young yet struggling. Three starters since 2011? A comical right side and literally no backups besides Hart who can't win a starting position on a line with issues.

Com'on, it's hardly been overnight.

In comment 13080124 Giants2012 said:

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or maybe offer Eugene Monroe the LT spot. Never mind the countless offensive linemen I wanted in the draft.

Osemele got $60 million to play guard. Monroes retired.

Try again.

In comment 13080147 BillT said:

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If you're going to go get a major FA OL tell me what major defensive FA you aren't going to get. And it's not just a money factor. You can only sign so many players. There just isn't the time and resources to sign everyone you like. Reese said even he was pleased he got all of his top FA choices to sign. So make a choice but it should be realistic in terms of overall FA acquisitions.

Bill, the Jenkins contract was insane. He's a "decent" CB, no more. If necessary the Giants could have signed a solid cheaper CB nd saved the coin for for the horrific Oline. Maybe even a TE that could block.

In comment 13080143 Dave in Hoboken said:

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That's hilarious.

Thanks for the specfic insight Dave.

Appears they have a lot of players.

Maybe we keep an eye on them
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13080148 Giants2012 said:

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In comment 13080137 MBavaro said: Quote: How many year would you like? 10? Com'on, it's hardly been overnight.

Remember, they are also still catching up from losing two starters in Beatty and Schwartz. That was just last year. We'd all have liked to see more done but given what they got done elsewhere (like on D) is understandable.

It's what you deserve, obviously.

Not very hard to decipher, anyway. This has been far from 'overnight.' You're very welcome, nonetheless. This is all TC's fault! *holds in laughter*

In comment 13080123 Jerz44 said:

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Draft Tunsil, put Flowers at RT (which is his more natural position).

Tunsil isn't even starting let alone playing tackle. He is now a 2nd string guard on the Dolphins. And had a so so showing against an UDFA last week.

In comment 13080153 mrvax said:

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In comment 13080147 BillT said: Quote: If you're going to go get a major FA OL tell me what major defensive FA you aren't going to get. And it's not just a money factor. You can only sign so many players. There just isn't the time and resources to sign everyone you like. Reese said even he was pleased he got all of his top FA choices to sign. So make a choice but it should be realistic in terms of overall FA acquisitions. Bill, the Jenkins contract was insane. He's a "decent" CB, no more. If necessary the Giants could have signed a solid cheaper CB nd saved the coin for for the horrific Oline. Maybe even a TE that could block.

What OL would you have signed with the extra "coin"?

In comment 13080160 Mason said:

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In comment 13080123 Jerz44 said: Quote: Draft Tunsil, put Flowers at RT (which is his more natural position). Tunsil isn't even starting let alone playing tackle. He is now a 2nd string guard on the Dolphins. And had a so so showing against an UDFA last week.

'so-so' is better than what we've seen from this OLine recently.

In comment 13080153 mrvax said:

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In comment 13080147 BillT said: Quote: If you're going to go get a major FA OL tell me what major defensive FA you aren't going to get. And it's not just a money factor. You can only sign so many players. There just isn't the time and resources to sign everyone you like. Reese said even he was pleased he got all of his top FA choices to sign. So make a choice but it should be realistic in terms of overall FA acquisitions. Bill, the Jenkins contract was insane. He's a "decent" CB, no more. If necessary the Giants could have signed a solid cheaper CB nd saved the coin for for the horrific Oline. Maybe even a TE that could block.

Ok, that's fine. If you're not going to sign Jenkins then an OL and/or TE would have been something that he could have gotten done. That's just what I was saying. I'm 50/50 on that solution. It's ok but I think when we see how good this D is we'll be pretty happy with the choices he made.

In comment 13080158 BillT said:

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Remember, they are also still catching up from losing two starters in Beatty and Schwartz. That was just last year. We'd all have liked to see more done but given what they got done elsewhere (like on D) is understandable.

but even if they had those two starters today they still wouldn't have any backups. Now they have three starters with one struggling. They have drafted miserably.

Imagine if Flowers, who is struggling, goes down. Now the team has no offensive tackles. That's pathetic

In comment 13080159 Dave in Hoboken said:

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It's what you deserve, obviously. Not very hard to decipher, anyway. This has been far from 'overnight.' You're very welcome, nonetheless. This is all TC's fault! *holds in laughter*

Do you ever actually contribute? You're like a yappy dog.

This thread is one of those BBI IQ tests.

The decent BBI posters usually contribute, and I enjoy the discussion. Those posters have actual insight, opinions, facts...

Then you have the folks like you and chris r. And the guy who thinks we should have spent $60mil on a G, and have our starting LT be someone who was cut, and now is retired.

BBI would just bitch about something else.

As drkenneth said what OL would you have signed. There is the reality of what's available. Schwatz's brother was the only fit I remembered and I'm not sure that was realistic given his preferences.

In comment 13080167 Giants2012 said:

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In comment 13080158 BillT said: Quote: Remember, they are also still catching up from losing two starters in Beatty and Schwartz. That was just last year. We'd all have liked to see more done but given what they got done elsewhere (like on D) is understandable. but even if they had those two starters today they still wouldn't have any backups.

That's not true, they would have had Jerry and Newhouse.

What would you have done as GM when you found out Josh Brown was an abuser?

Move to rebuild this OL.

It's been the #1 problem since 2013 season.

We have had a franchise QB this whole time and needed to rebuild in free agency and not by the draft.

OL take several years to come into own and a line takes some time to gel. Put it together and it doesn't add up to way to rebuild OL with a QB who has won SBs already in his 30s.

On top of it the Giants have dropped cash like drunken sailors in 2 of these free agency periods.

We should have signed veteran free agent OL from the beginning and used our draft picks on skill positions.

The free agents we did sign, we had gambles at bargain prices.

About the only call that was decent was Geoff Schwartz and unfortunately got injured.

I can remember wanted Evan Dietrich Smith over JD Walton, a signing I never understood in 2014.

I can remember really wanting Mike Iupati in 2015

In terms of this free agency, I wanted Mitchell Schwartz.

We could have gotten Okung and Schwartz for the same price as Vernon and locked the bookend tackles for the rest of Eli career.

What I'm saying though is that the fundamental theory of rebuilding this OL was wrong from the beginning. We should have signed quality free agents as our top priority and not drafted rookie OL in first rounds. It would have changed everything we did.

this team wins 8 games. More if Coughlin didn't shit his pants.

Shit, they should have won 8 LAST YEAR, with a god awful defense.

But the OL is a disaster. (Not saying it's good)

In comment 13080170 drkenneth said:

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In comment 13080159 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: It's what you deserve, obviously. Not very hard to decipher, anyway. This has been far from 'overnight.' You're very welcome, nonetheless. This is all TC's fault! *holds in laughter* Do you ever actually contribute? You're like a yappy dog. This thread is one of those BBI IQ tests. The decent BBI posters usually contribute, and I enjoy the discussion. Those posters have actual insight, opinions, facts... Then you have the folks like you and chris r. And the guy who thinks we should have spent $60mil on a G, and have our starting LT be someone who was cut, and now is retired. BBI would just bitch about something else.

This coming from an idiotic fanboy who did nothing but blame all of the Giants' failures, including the players we drafted and signed, all on the coach. Now, the coach isn't here, and we still major issues on the OLine, TE, and depth ALL over the team.

This isn't "bitching", you moron. This is realistic concern that anyone with a functioning brain would have. Not a surprise that a blind fanboy such as yourself can't see that. You're an embarrassment. But let me guess, this is all TC's fault, right? Lel.

In comment 13080117 grizz299 said:

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Never an arrest, never a failed drug test. The best player at a position of extreme need falls to us unexpectadly and all the room could think of is plqy it safe, remember! So they froze. Then they sign a significant free agent..at cornerback.

I guess you really don't get tired of posting the same thing over and over again, so I will post a reply...again.

Tunsil had more issues than weed. Durability was one. And now he's locked in mortal combat with one of the worst Guards in the league for the starting LG spot in Miami. The idea that he would have been our O-Line savior is, at the very least, debatable.

In case you hadn't noticed, we had the worst (or second worst) pass defense in the league last year. Part of that was due to our lack of a pass-rush, but the woeful play of our CBs (other than DRC), along with their inability to stay healthy (including DRC, who's also getting up there in age) was a big factor, too.

In case you also hadn't noticed, teams are trotting out 3 WR sets about two thirds of the time, 4 WRs about a quarter of the time. Your third CB is essentially a starter. Our third CB, prior to the draft, was Trevin Wade. Not as bad as some made out, but eminently upgradeabe (sic). So, instead of "freezing," as you allege without any evidence to back it up, the Giants drafted the CB who was obviously the one they had ranked highest on their board. The one with the size and speed they've always coveted, and the one with the most proverbial upside. And when they had the chance to sign an additional CB - an accomplished veteran - they did. I don't see where the problem is. You can never have enough good CBs.

There's your alternatives for Jerry and Newhouse and there's your depth.

Coulda done nothing at all.

Must still be betting on (besides Hart) one or more of the young guys to mature.

In comment 13080152 drkenneth said:

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In comment 13080124 Giants2012 said: Quote: or maybe offer Eugene Monroe the LT spot. Never mind the countless offensive linemen I wanted in the draft. Osemele got $60 million to play guard. Monroes retired. Try again.

Hey, I wanted the Giants to draft Osemele and Marcus Cannon years ago. Monroe wanted to be a LT and the Giants told him no apparently.

Try again? You think it takes 10 years to build an OL b/c the Giants have built 2.5 players for the OL in five years. Overnight? Try again.

In comment 13080183 Giants2012 said:

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In comment 13080152 drkenneth said: Quote: In comment 13080124 Giants2012 said: Quote: or maybe offer Eugene Monroe the LT spot. Never mind the countless offensive linemen I wanted in the draft. Osemele got $60 million to play guard. Monroes retired. Try again. Hey, I wanted the Giants to draft Osemele and Marcus Cannon years ago. Monroe wanted to be a LT and the Giants told him no apparently. Try again? You think it takes 10 years to build an OL b/c the Giants have built 2.5 players for the OL in five years. Overnight? Try again.

Meh. Give 'em another 5 years. They'll get it right, eventually. Right...?

Taylor Decker. Though Apple was my favorite CB.

In comment 13080177 twostepgiants said:

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Move to rebuild this OL. It's been the #1 problem since 2013 season. We have had a franchise QB this whole time and needed to rebuild in free agency and not by the draft. OL take several years to come into own and a line takes some time to gel. Put it together and it doesn't add up to way to rebuild OL with a QB who has won SBs already in his 30s. On top of it the Giants have dropped cash like drunken sailors in 2 of these free agency periods. We should have signed veteran free agent OL from the beginning and used our draft picks on skill positions. The free agents we did sign, we had gambles at bargain prices. About the only call that was decent was Geoff Schwartz and unfortunately got injured. I can remember wanted Evan Dietrich Smith over JD Walton, a signing I never understood in 2014. I can remember really wanting Mike Iupati in 2015 In terms of this free agency, I wanted Mitchell Schwartz. We could have gotten Okung and Schwartz for the same price as Vernon and locked the bookend tackles for the rest of Eli career. What I'm saying though is that the fundamental theory of rebuilding this OL was wrong from the beginning. We should have signed quality free agents as our top priority and not drafted rookie OL in first rounds. It would have changed everything we did.

So you wanted Okung and Schwartz over Vernon?

That is crazy talk.

In comment 13080147 BillT said:

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If you're going to go get a major FA OL tell me what major defensive FA you aren't going to get. And it's not just a money factor. You can only sign so many players. There just isn't the time and resources to sign everyone you like. Reese said even he was pleased he got all of his top FA choices to sign. So make a choice but it should be realistic in terms of overall FA acquisitions.

That's simply not true, at least not in this case. They had several OL in for visits. If the stars aligned they would have signed. It's not like those guys didn't come here because the FO didn't have enough "time and resources".

I really think signing Schwartz is hard to argue with. Not cheap but wouldn't have broken the bank or hamstrung them in the future. Above average starter. Giants have their OTs for the rest of Eli's career.

In comment 13080183 Giants2012 said:

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In comment 13080152 drkenneth said: Quote: In comment 13080124 Giants2012 said: Quote: or maybe offer Eugene Monroe the LT spot. Never mind the countless offensive linemen I wanted in the draft. Osemele got $60 million to play guard. Monroes retired. Try again. Hey, I wanted the Giants to draft Osemele and Marcus Cannon years ago. Monroe wanted to be a LT and the Giants told him no apparently. Try again? You think it takes 10 years to build an OL b/c the Giants have built 2.5 players for the OL in five years. Overnight? Try again.

How has it been 10 years? I never said it should take 10 years.

This OL needs at least one more solid starter. Every fucking team in the NFL can say that about some position.

In comment 13080185 Dave in Hoboken said:

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Try again? You think it takes 10 years to build an OL b/c the Giants have built 2.5 players for the OL in five years. Overnight? Try again. Meh. Give 'em another 5 years. They'll get it right, eventually. Right...?

I hope so. We're sporting 19 wins over three years and still need 2.5 players to complete the starting five. Never mind the backups which are non-existent.

In comment 13080177 twostepgiants said:

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What I'm saying though is that the fundamental theory of rebuilding this OL was wrong from the beginning. We should have signed quality free agents as our top priority and not drafted rookie OL in first rounds. It would have changed everything we did.

This I'd disagree with. In any team in today's pass happy NFL that is playing a 4-3 defense the top signing and drafting priorities have to be (in no particular order) WR, DL, DB. You can't be good everywhere and you can't sacrifice talent in these positions for OLs.

45% is 16 years old, and thinks its Madden.

The other 10% is reasonable.

In comment 13080196 drkenneth said:

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45% is 16 years old, and thinks its Madden. The other 10% is reasonable.

Let's hear your solution since your perception is others have some panty issue while sporting that bra on your head.

In comment 13080194 Giants2012 said:

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In comment 13080185 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: Try again? You think it takes 10 years to build an OL b/c the Giants have built 2.5 players for the OL in five years. Overnight? Try again. Meh. Give 'em another 5 years. They'll get it right, eventually. Right...? I hope so. We're sporting 19 wins over three years and still need 2.5 players to complete the starting five. Never mind the backups which are non-existent.

Right? Oh well. At least we're not blind fanboys unlike some on here. So much for the issues magically going away..