Lots of panties in a bunch this morning after preseason game #2.
So what should have been done? 2015 is over, what would have been your plan going into 2016 to improve the OL.
Please provide specifics.
Draft: Conklin & Stanley were gone. Tunsil had issues.
I have provided a link to 2015 Free agents.
Free agents - (
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If you're going to go get a major FA OL tell me what major defensive FA you aren't going to get. And it's not just a money factor. You can only sign so many players. There just isn't the time and resources to sign everyone you like. Reese said even he was pleased he got all of his top FA choices to sign. So make a choice but it should be realistic in terms of overall FA acquisitions.
That's simply not true, at least not in this case. They had several OL in for visits. If the stars aligned they would have signed. It's not like those guys didn't come here because the FO didn't have enough "time and resources".
I really think signing Schwartz is hard to argue with. Not cheap but wouldn't have broken the bank or hamstrung them in the future. Above average starter. Giants have their OTs for the rest of Eli's career.
He would have been a good signing but I never thought he gave the Giants much chance to sign him. He wasted to play elsewhere and was going to get his money from someone and he did. Just not sure how realistic he was especially with his brother's history here.
Relying on a rookie is not what you want but that's better than standing pat after the way FA worked out (or didn't). And Spriggs is significantly more athletic than Flowers.
In the larger picture, I would have taken the Jets up on the offer of their 2nd round pick to move up in the first.
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45% is 16 years old, and thinks its Madden.
The other 10% is reasonable.
Let's hear your solution since your perception is others have some panty issue while sporting that bra on your head.
I did not see an available upgrade at OT.
Mitchell Schwartz would have been nice, but we just cut his brother, and he may not have been an option.
Not sure how anyone can bitch about our off-season- If you want to say that not going hard after Schwartz was a mistake, I think that's reasonable, but it's a two-way street. Maybe he never wanted to play here (something BBI struggles with)
I was a fan of Conklin, but that didn't happen.
This team isn't perfect. But no team in today's NFL is (another something BBI can wrap their head around).
This is going to be the OL for 2016.
I thought OC Brett Jones played well yesterday. I didn't think he'd make the final 53 but now as thinking he may be the backup OC / OG after Hart.
And lost Shepard to do so. So you want Conklin over Apple and Shepard. No thanks.
So you'd take a project LT over our starting, rookie FS?
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They should have traded up to 8 to take him.
And lost Shepard to do so. So you want Conklin over Apple and Shepard. No thanks.
Wouldn't have cost them a 2.
Saying you'd throw back one of them is a but much.
This past year? You mean 2016? or 2015?
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than recognize the draft both this past year and historically which has led to this mess.
This past year? You mean 2016? or 2015?
The line has stunk for four years which you apparently dismiss as overnight.
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In comment 13080213 jeff57 said:
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They should have traded up to 8 to take him.
And lost Shepard to do so. So you want Conklin over Apple and Shepard. No thanks.
Wouldn't have cost them a 2.
It would have next year, because the Browns also got the Titans' 2017 2nd round pick in addition to their 2016 3rd rounder.
But to rephrase Bill's post, so you would want Conklin over Apple and Darian Thompson? No thanks. And I'm the guy who started a thread that said, "Give me Jack Conklin or give me death."
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In comment 13080213 jeff57 said:
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They should have traded up to 8 to take him.
And lost Shepard to do so. So you want Conklin over Apple and Shepard. No thanks.
Wouldn't have cost them a 2.
Ok, a 3 then. Apple and Thompson for Conklin. Better but still no thanks.
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In comment 13080147 BillT said:
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If you're going to go get a major FA OL tell me what major defensive FA you aren't going to get. And it's not just a money factor. You can only sign so many players. There just isn't the time and resources to sign everyone you like. Reese said even he was pleased he got all of his top FA choices to sign. So make a choice but it should be realistic in terms of overall FA acquisitions.
That's simply not true, at least not in this case. They had several OL in for visits. If the stars aligned they would have signed. It's not like those guys didn't come here because the FO didn't have enough "time and resources".
I really think signing Schwartz is hard to argue with. Not cheap but wouldn't have broken the bank or hamstrung them in the future. Above average starter. Giants have their OTs for the rest of Eli's career.
He would have been a good signing but I never thought he gave the Giants much chance to sign him. He wasted to play elsewhere and was going to get his money from someone and he did. Just not sure how realistic he was especially with his brother's history here.
Its certainly a possibility that Geoff could have tried to steer Mitchell away from the Giants. But if they showed legitimate interest you've gotta think any agent worth his salt would get him in for a visit. And from there it's pretty much all about the money. If the Giants offered the best deal, which wouldn't have been prohibitive going forward, he likely would have signed here. You've gotta think playing for this offense, with a franchise QB and one of the top WRs in the game, in the NY market, would have been an easy sell.
And if not, the point on Beatty remains. It would be tough to convince me he'd be worse than Newhouse. And while he's still currently a FA, does anyone think Newhouse would be scooped up quickly if he were suddenly cut loose? His phone might ring mid season when someone goes down to replace the depth that would theoretically step up. Might.
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In comment 13080219 BillT said:
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In comment 13080213 jeff57 said:
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They should have traded up to 8 to take him.
And lost Shepard to do so. So you want Conklin over Apple and Shepard. No thanks.
Wouldn't have cost them a 2.
It would have next year, because the Browns also got the Titans' 2017 2nd round pick in addition to their 2016 3rd rounder.
But to rephrase Bill's post, so you would want Conklin over Apple and Darian Thompson? No thanks. And I'm the guy who started a thread that said, "Give me Jack Conklin or give me death."
Titans moved up 7 spots, not 2.
Osemele was much too expensive, and Monroe retired.
Passing on Tunsil was also correct. That picture of him with the bong was lethal to any discussion of our drafting him. I won't fault Reese for not taking Tunsil, even if he ends up in the HOF. After Will Hill, we weren't getting involved with any more dope smokers, certainly not with a top ten pick. The problem is that Tunsil falling eliminated our chance to take Conklin. Clark is a project. I'm not sure how much he could help us this year. Going back further, I would have taken Cordy Glenn over David Wilson.
Reese also absolutely had to fix the defense, which was historically bad. The Giants offense was effective last year with this OL. Flowers was a rookie LT playing on a bum ankle, and it was the first year for Richburg at center. Reese probably thought the OL would improve this year just for those reasons, an that still might happen. We have to hope that the current problems are more from a lack of chemistry than talent.
The question though is what the Giants can do now. It won't happen, but I hope they contact Beatty. I do think they will add a few OL from other teams after cuts, and there is an increasing chance that Donnell is gone because of his poor blocking.
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In comment 13080226 Giants2012 said:
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than recognize the draft both this past year and historically which has led to this mess.
This past year? You mean 2016? or 2015?
The line has stunk for four years which you apparently dismiss as overnight.
That's not an answer.
This would very very likely put the team in a position where they can't afford to even try to keep JPP and lead to eventual cap hell.
After that crashed and burned or the team imploded after a Super Bowl run I would be fired and never hired again. But my panties wouldn't be in a bunch so there's that.
The Giants invited Penn for a visit, but he decided to re-sign with Oakland and blew us off. Try again.
Oh, and when are you ever in a good mood? You're about the most miserable SOB I've ever encountered.
Making an "absolute" commitment to Flowers at LT, regardless of circumstances, is a textbook example of an inflexible approach. Even putting aside the question of moving him to RT, what are the Giants plans if Flowers gets injured? Reshuffle the entire line? Or put Stingily at LT? If so, that's a bad plan.
The fact is they are a tackle short. Hart has yet to prove he is at all capable of playing tackle. Newhouse should be a backup at this point in his career. So really, Giants only have one starting caliber tackle on the roster. That's not good when you are in win-now mode and looking for the offense to be a powerhouse.
When you factor in the Giants remaining cap space, not addressing this problem was a major blunder. I'm a Reese supporter. I think he took a lot more heat than he deserved. However, there is just no denying the tackle situation is a fuck up. How big a fuck up remains to be seen.
The oline played well enough to win 10-11 games last season. The D was in dire need of being fixed. But hey... Gotta bash something carry on.
You can't fuck up Flowers' development by shifting him back to RT for a washed up Donald Penn or Okung.
Issue # 137 BBI struggles to comprehend.
This isn't just "Reese being stubborn"
You might want to look up the term 'passive aggressive.' I was pretty direct in my disagreement. Stay obsessed, though.
"lel"
Wait till you see New England's running game this year.
My apologies. Now all of a sudden BBI is sensitive..
Could you name the "numerous LTs that were available in free agency."?
The defense needed the most help and got it.
As for the cap - need money for Odell, Pugh, Hankins, Richburg and maybe JPP. They would have spent another $8 mill or so IF (BIG IF) the right guy was there. He wasn't.
What would I have done? Probably like Jerry - fix the defense and live with the offense.
My top concern entering the off-season was depth at wide receiver and offensive line. The strength of this team is the offense, and little was done to reinforce that side of the ball. This team as a Beckham knee sprain away from major problems.
The plan seems to continue to be to patch holes rather than reinforce strengths.
Wait till you see New England's running game this year.
Pffft. Not with Dion Lewis out for most of the season.
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In comment 13080231 drkenneth said:
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In comment 13080226 Giants2012 said:
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than recognize the draft both this past year and historically which has led to this mess.
This past year? You mean 2016? or 2015?
The line has stunk for four years which you apparently dismiss as overnight.
That's not an answer.
Dismissing the other answers and praising panties isn't a solution either. The Giants have stunk in the draft for years and have failed to build a quality offensive line. They didn't even draft an offensive lineman this year and have drafted so few offensive linemen over the years they've accumulated approx 2.5 starters and nothing else. This build has had enough time for more than this. Preaching panties and overnight indicates you haven't paid close attention at all. Oh, and with approx $20 million in cap space they could have signed Osemele with or without all the defensive signings.
The oline played well enough to win 10-11 games last season. The D was in dire need of being fixed. But hey... Gotta bash something carry on.
granted, the defense needed fixing first and foremost. With that being said, quite a few of those games lost be defense at end of games, could've been nil if the OL could run block within 5 mins at end of those games which would've turned those L's to W's..even if it was 3 games or so. run game has hindered this team and efficiency of the offense and it's because of OL and TE's not doing the basics..run block..that's the problem
Shit, they should have won 8 LAST YEAR, with a god awful defense.
But the OL is a disaster. (Not saying it's good)
This team may not have have won 3 games if Coughlin wasn't coaching.
I guess we'll see how things go.
I guess we'll see how things go.
And not signed Harrison, or Vernon or Jenkins? Ok then.
Once we cut Beatty I figured we would,sign a LT and move Flowers to RT for the next 1-2 seasons.
The FA crop was pretty bare for RTs, but signing Schwartz and retaining Beatty would make the roster a lot deeper at a position of absolute weakness. Even just keeping Beatty would be an improvement. Who knows, maybe he fell off a cliff. I just have a hard time believing he's any worse than Newhouse.