Lots of panties in a bunch this morning after preseason game #2.
So what should have been done? 2015 is over, what would have been your plan going into 2016 to improve the OL.
Please provide specifics.
Draft: Conklin & Stanley were gone. Tunsil had issues.
I have provided a link to 2015 Free agents.
Free agents - (
New Window )
There are a lot more fast guys who can catch the ball on the planet than there are fat mobile guys :)
Who's your #2 WR if we draft a G in the 2nd?
FMiC - I'm hardly a Dallas admirer, I just can't get over the criticism of them while at the same time there is great optimism for our team. It doesn't make sense at all.
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I would have drafted Cody Whitehair in the second round instead of Sharp.
There are a lot more fast guys who can catch the ball on the planet than there are fat mobile guys :)
Who's your #2 WR if we draft a G in the 2nd?
Who's our #2 WR if Shepard wasn't on the board? I agree he looks like the goods but counting on a rookie to carry such a heavy burden is a problem. Better prospects than him have failed or worn down physically and mentally under the added strain of the pro game.
Would you rather we had a 2013 type offseason where we signed Cullen Jenkins, Ryan Mundy, Aaron Ross' corpse, Dan Connor and an always injured Jon Beason?
FMiC - I'm hardly a Dallas admirer, I just can't get over the criticism of them while at the same time there is great optimism for our team. It doesn't make sense at all.
"To me they appear to be the same type of moves that resulted in a team that tried to scrape by to make the playoffs."
Can you expand upon this a bit? What year are you referring to?
What year did the Giants spend $200mil to "scrape by"
You feel the best move(s) were Osemele @ $60m and a 35 year old Anquan Boldin?
Those moves will work, yet singing Vernon and Snacks, etc..."may work, may not"
Like someone said yesterday: It must be lonely being the smartest person in the room.
You come up with some weird shit.
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In comment 13081465 skifaster said:
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I would have drafted Cody Whitehair in the second round instead of Sharp.
There are a lot more fast guys who can catch the ball on the planet than there are fat mobile guys :)
Who's your #2 WR if we draft a G in the 2nd?
Who's our #2 WR if Shepard wasn't on the board? I agree he looks like the goods but counting on a rookie to carry such a heavy burden is a problem. Better prospects than him have failed or worn down physically and mentally under the added strain of the pro game.
Again, you're playing the "GoTerps smart, everyone else dumb" card over and over.
So pairing a reliable #2 WR next to Beckham isn't "Building Something"?
This is the bullshit I'm talking about. We're so wrapped up in wanting to be optimistic that we start calling rookies reliable before they have played a regular season snap. Utterly ridiculous.
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In comment 13081465 skifaster said:
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I would have drafted Cody Whitehair in the second round instead of Sharp.
There are a lot more fast guys who can catch the ball on the planet than there are fat mobile guys :)
Who's your #2 WR if we draft a G in the 2nd?
Who's our #2 WR if Shepard wasn't on the board? I agree he looks like the goods but counting on a rookie to carry such a heavy burden is a problem. Better prospects than him have failed or worn down physically and mentally under the added strain of the pro game.
Let's stay in reality here. Shepard WAS available and WE DID draft him.
You say counting on a rookie to "carry such a heavy burden" is a problem....But starting a rookie G is no big deal?
This is the bullshit I'm talking about. We're so wrapped up in wanting to be optimistic that we start calling rookies reliable before they have played a regular season snap. Utterly ridiculous.
But a rookie G would be reliable?
Are you really this arrogant in real life?
I PRESUME this is what Reese/McAdoo believe they did. I just don't know who the equal or greater value are yet.
LaFell, Sanu.... Benjamin.. Rishard Matthews..
Boldin is a slot guy now. We needed someone who could play on the outside opposite Beckham.
You complain when we "overspend" on FA's and then complain again when we draft a young, cost controlled WR.
There just seems to be no rhyme or reason to your critiques other than expressing disapproval at every turn.
As is starting a rookie OL. Is it not?
Again, you're master plan yesterday was to sign Osemele (who got $60mil to play G, and sign a 35 year old Boldin.
You come around and act like everyone else is crazy.
Teams expect premium draft choices to contribute in year one. We're not asking him to be our best WR. Why do you think teams spent high draft picks on these guys to begin with? So they they add to an embarrassment of riches at the position and further their luxury of depth?
Evans, Benjamin, Matthews, Cooper, Cooks, etc.. the teams that drafted these guys all relied on them to be top targets for their football teams in year one. We did the same thing with Beckham. But now it's not okay to take a WR in the 2nd rd and expect him to be your 2nd best WR?
Just not really understanding the logic.
It does suck that not only did we pass on Tunsil, but missed out on Conklin as well. Apple WILL be a very good player IMO, and in today's NFL you NEED to have a ton of CBs considering your nickel is a defacto starter. So I can't really hate on the pick much.
I will say this though - I think Jenkins contract is absolutely absurd, and even AFTER giving Jenkins that contract, I'd have resigned Prince as well (if he'd agree to it) considering he signed for peanuts compared to Jenkins. I do not think the difference between the two players is anywhere close to their salary differences.
If the reports about being unwilling to move Flowers to RT is true, I can say with confidence that's one difference I'd have made, and would have made a stronger run at Eugene Monroe. I'd have offered a pick as high as the 3rd round for Anthony Davis as well.
Lastly, while I can live with cutting Schwartz (but wouldn't have done it), there's 0 chance I'd have cut Beatty.
If this line was Beatty - Pugh - Richburg - Schwartz - Flowers, then it'd actually be a STRENGTH of the team. Even if you replace Schwartz with Jerry, that's a pretty damn good unit with potential to be great.
Fuck it man, if I was GM I'd be on the phone with Beatty as we speak.
It's your BBI shtick.
Dallas is "building something" yet their QB gets the shit beat out of him, and they've won exactly 2 playoff games in 20 years.
You talk about the Giants spending on "high priced FAs", then suggest spending $60+ million on a G and sign a 35 year old WR.
Then you bitch about spending a #2 on a WR to pair with Beckham.
I'm having a hard tie understand what the fuck your stance is. It's like your just taking shots in the dark here.
What would have made it better was Cordy Glenn in place of Jenkins...they landed almost identical contracts. Idk if Glenn could have been lured from Buffalo, but it would have been huge.
So it was a decent off-season, but I agree legit high expectations are so unfounded and perplexing. They've sucked. They blow games in unbelievable fashion. Injuries, yes. But 6-10 teams who continually miss the playoffs (in a mediocre division no less) despite having an always healthy franchise QB are fully in "prove it" mode. Perhaps beat the Eagles in a meaningful game...something they haven't done since 2011 (Cruz's coming out party).
It does suck that not only did we pass on Tunsil, but missed out on Conklin as well. Apple WILL be a very good player IMO, and in today's NFL you NEED to have a ton of CBs considering your nickel is a defacto starter. So I can't really hate on the pick much.
I will say this though - I think Jenkins contract is absolutely absurd, and even AFTER giving Jenkins that contract, I'd have resigned Prince as well (if he'd agree to it) considering he signed for peanuts compared to Jenkins. I do not think the difference between the two players is anywhere close to their salary differences.
If the reports about being unwilling to move Flowers to RT is true, I can say with confidence that's one difference I'd have made, and would have made a stronger run at Eugene Monroe. I'd have offered a pick as high as the 3rd round for Anthony Davis as well.
Lastly, while I can live with cutting Schwartz (but wouldn't have done it), there's 0 chance I'd have cut Beatty.
If this line was Beatty - Pugh - Richburg - Schwartz - Flowers, then it'd actually be a STRENGTH of the team. Even if you replace Schwartz with Jerry, that's a pretty damn good unit with potential to be great.
Fuck it man, if I was GM I'd be on the phone with Beatty as we speak.
Don't you think if Will Beatty was actually a good LT that someone would have signed him by now? You don't think anyone else in this league needs help at OT?
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There were other players available last year who I think the Giants should have signed in order to address the OL.
It does suck that not only did we pass on Tunsil, but missed out on Conklin as well. Apple WILL be a very good player IMO, and in today's NFL you NEED to have a ton of CBs considering your nickel is a defacto starter. So I can't really hate on the pick much.
I will say this though - I think Jenkins contract is absolutely absurd, and even AFTER giving Jenkins that contract, I'd have resigned Prince as well (if he'd agree to it) considering he signed for peanuts compared to Jenkins. I do not think the difference between the two players is anywhere close to their salary differences.
If the reports about being unwilling to move Flowers to RT is true, I can say with confidence that's one difference I'd have made, and would have made a stronger run at Eugene Monroe. I'd have offered a pick as high as the 3rd round for Anthony Davis as well.
Lastly, while I can live with cutting Schwartz (but wouldn't have done it), there's 0 chance I'd have cut Beatty.
If this line was Beatty - Pugh - Richburg - Schwartz - Flowers, then it'd actually be a STRENGTH of the team. Even if you replace Schwartz with Jerry, that's a pretty damn good unit with potential to be great.
Fuck it man, if I was GM I'd be on the phone with Beatty as we speak.
Don't you think if Will Beatty was actually a good LT that someone would have signed him by now? You don't think anyone else in this league needs help at OT?
Don't forget about the 3rd round pick for Anthony Davis!
LaFell, Sanu.... Benjamin.. Rishard Matthews..
Boldin is a slot guy now. We needed someone who could play on the outside opposite Beckham.
You complain when we "overspend" on FA's and then complain again when we draft a young, cost controlled WR.
There just seems to be no rhyme or reason to your critiques other than expressing disapproval at every turn.
Just to interject, and not for the purposes of taking either side in this debate you've having with Go Terps, I actually think all those WRs except for LaFell would have been EXCELLENT signings. Then again, if signing those players means we don't draft Shepard, I'm glad we didn't.
I'd love Matthews or Sanu in blue.
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In comment 13081585 Sonic Youth said:
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There were other players available last year who I think the Giants should have signed in order to address the OL.
It does suck that not only did we pass on Tunsil, but missed out on Conklin as well. Apple WILL be a very good player IMO, and in today's NFL you NEED to have a ton of CBs considering your nickel is a defacto starter. So I can't really hate on the pick much.
I will say this though - I think Jenkins contract is absolutely absurd, and even AFTER giving Jenkins that contract, I'd have resigned Prince as well (if he'd agree to it) considering he signed for peanuts compared to Jenkins. I do not think the difference between the two players is anywhere close to their salary differences.
If the reports about being unwilling to move Flowers to RT is true, I can say with confidence that's one difference I'd have made, and would have made a stronger run at Eugene Monroe. I'd have offered a pick as high as the 3rd round for Anthony Davis as well.
Lastly, while I can live with cutting Schwartz (but wouldn't have done it), there's 0 chance I'd have cut Beatty.
If this line was Beatty - Pugh - Richburg - Schwartz - Flowers, then it'd actually be a STRENGTH of the team. Even if you replace Schwartz with Jerry, that's a pretty damn good unit with potential to be great.
Fuck it man, if I was GM I'd be on the phone with Beatty as we speak.
Don't you think if Will Beatty was actually a good LT that someone would have signed him by now? You don't think anyone else in this league needs help at OT?
Don't forget about the 3rd round pick for Anthony Davis!
I know trading for Davis has become a BBI meme, but that's not based on him being a bad football player. He's a good to great tackle who has played RT extensively.
As for Beatty being signed already, who knows...but just because someone is currently a FA doesn't automatically mean they can't play, but rather that they are an injury risk nobody wants to take up.
Look at Ahmad Bradshaw. He definitely still has some gas in the tank, but he's an injury risk and nobody will touch him.
Besides, being that we cut Beatty, it's not like there would have been much to lose to hang on to him and see how he performed in camp first. The only thing I can think of is that something happened behind the scenes that we are not privy to.
I really liked the Leon Hall signing, and maybe that doesn't happen if we re-sign Prince, but regardless, the overpay for Jenkins was apparent.
Not sure he has any gas left in the tank, but I'm fairly certain that if the Giants signed him, that's a bad move.
Signing Beatty is a really bad move, not just because the guy is injured, but because he also doesn't want to play here.
It isn't Madden where you just sign players and then control them with the joystick or hit the A button to make them happy.
We have plenty of cap room.
You also suggested signing one player who is retired and one player we cut, and is still unsigned.
Holy shit.
It seems like your post is somewhat of an apologia for JR's performance, yet I can't believe that you really feel he's done an adequate job of addressing the OL in either FA or the draft over the years.
Is it our scouting of OL prospects? We certainly haven't hit on even one low round draft choice since DD. Is it an undervaluing of the position? Doesn't seem to me to be so, given the selections of Pugh and Flowers, some of our FA signings, and our likely pick of Conklin if he'd been there for us. So what exactly is it? Does it come back to scouting?
And, I can understand the cutting of Beatty, who didn't lay it on the line for the team last year. But why would you cut Schwartz, who is at least a relatively competent OG, and a guy who can at least fill in at OT?
Don't you think that something is wrong here?
We have plenty of cap room.
Who gives a shit if we have plenty of cap room? You still have a finite amount of resources that you can only allocate in certain ways. Beckham needs to be resigned soon. Hankins should be resigned as well. If JPP plays well this year, he's going to be resigned also.
And yeah, no shit it's not my money, thanks for pointing that out. Sorry, but it's a pet peeve of mine when people make that statement - literally nobody who makes a statement about overpaying for a player actually cares about how much it "costs" in terms of actually paying out the money. If it was an uncapped league and the Giants could spend whatever they wanted, nobody would give a shit.
Point is that you have a shitload of money tied into a player who isn't much better than Prince, who got peanuts.
Someone else said before that Jenkins and the tackle that went to Oakland got the same amount of money. I'd have rather re-signed Prince and used that money at the tackle spot.
I've been posting all offseason (and frankly for years) about the O-line. I think the o-line was the biggest miscalculation Reese has ever made, and I am generally a big Reese supporter. He fucked it up by not retooling it around 2012/2013. The rebuild of the line started way too late, and the Beatty cut had a feeling of "two step forwards, one step back".
If you give Eli time to throw the ball, he will tear it up. Shit, he's tearing it up in McAdoos offense with this line being garbage as is.
But dedicating resources to the line would have helped the ground game (and in turn, the defense). This is why I'd rather have allocated those resources to a tackle than a CB if Prince could have been resigned for a similar amount to what Jacksonville paid for him.
You also suggested signing one player who is retired and one player we cut, and is still unsigned.
Holy shit.
No shit he wasn't publicly available, but we don't even know if the Giants inquired. I'd have inquired and I'd have offered up to a third round pick. I brought this up because I'd have traded a higher draft choice than most on this board were willing to trade.
And I would be willing to trade such a high pick because of the premium I place on the O-line.
As for the rest of my post "not being based in reality"... well, that's just a bullshit statement.
I went into the offseason wanting to resign Prince, an OT and potentially an OG, sign another DT and DE, and a WR. We addressed most of these positions but there is an absolute glaring hole at OT, and I'd have hedged my bets by signing Rishard Matthews, who didn't get as big of a contract as Jones and Sanu but would have been a fantastic addition to our WR corp.
As valuable as Bradshaw could be, he has to be on the field. The Colts didn't get that from him last year. In effect, any positive contributions were overshadowed by him missing time. That's the same with Prince - even if he's a blanket, if he only plays half a year that isn't good.
The truth is that at that price, you could have signed Jackrabbit AND Prince (although granted, we probably wouldn't have signed Hall at that point)... but like I said to FMiC a minute ago, I think the larger issue is that Prince wasn't going to resign here regardless.
As valuable as Bradshaw could be, he has to be on the field. The Colts didn't get that from him last year. In effect, any positive contributions were overshadowed by him missing time. That's the same with Prince - even if he's a blanket, if he only plays half a year that isn't good.
In my opinion... if singing Prince means you don't have Jenkins, then I agree with you and do not think he's worth ANY price.
If the Giants could have gotten Prince at 6 million for 1 year after giving Jenkins a contract, then yes, I think he'd be absolutely worth the risk.
It seems like your post is somewhat of an apologia for JR's performance, yet I can't believe that you really feel he's done an adequate job of addressing the OL in either FA or the draft over the years.
Is it our scouting of OL prospects? We certainly haven't hit on even one low round draft choice since DD. Is it an undervaluing of the position? Doesn't seem to me to be so, given the selections of Pugh and Flowers, some of our FA signings, and our likely pick of Conklin if he'd been there for us. So what exactly is it? Does it come back to scouting?
And, I can understand the cutting of Beatty, who didn't lay it on the line for the team last year. But why would you cut Schwartz, who is at least a relatively competent OG, and a guy who can at least fill in at OT?
Don't you think that something is wrong here?
Of course I'm not happy with the past few years. I've watched this team my whole life.
I just choose to take a step back, take a deep breath, and look at the big picture. I've seen this team win 4 Super Bowls, 2 in the past 10 years. Yet, we have posters fellating the Cowboys, who have won 2 playoff games in 20 years.
I just have a realistic view of things. Bad drafts happen, and they will happen in the future. Teams aren't built overnight.
The "past few drafts" (2014- Present..You know, after the messiah Gettlemen left) have resulted in 8 starters.
The off-season was a success. Of course we won't know until the games are real, but complaining about it seems like grasping at straws.
The OL simply isn't complete yet. Simple as that. It's easy to say "we should have drafted X player in x round".....The OL needs 2 more starters. We'll most likely have to wait until next year.
And if the OL was complete, the BBI twat-brigade would bitch about something else.
As I've stated before, it's as if 45% of BBI thinks it's 1986, 45% thinks it's Madden, 10% have a reasonable, big-picture view.
There are no complete teams in the NFL. Every team has issues.
If you can't see the drafting is trending upward, then you can't be helped.
Again, OL may have to wait another year. Unless of course, we trade for Anthony Davis, Sign a retired Monroe, and re-sign Beatty, who we cut, and is currently not playing on an NFL team. Brilliant.
The funny thing is I'm not even really ripping Reese that much. I think his moves were great this offseason, I just am not fully on board with Jenkins at that price, and more importantly think he hasn't finished the rebuild he started with the O-line.
He has mismanaged the O-line for years. As another poster said, it's been arguably the biggest problem with this team since 2013. We've had 3 offseasons, it should be rebuilt by now. I've been consistent in wanting to fix this for years. We only have a few more years of Eli left, and we need to do everything in our power to put the right pieces around him. I wanted Martin in 2014 (glad we got OBJ of course though), wanted them to sign Bualaga a year or two ago, wanted Alex Boone/Schwartz/Ouewhatever this year, and was happy they took a tackle when they took Flowers (the pundits said we reached by Reese nails his first round pick, so I have faith in him as a player).
It's just so strange to me that we spent 3 high draft picks on the OL in 2 years, but don't sign any FAs to "complete the set" so to speak.
Fixing the O-line should have been second priority this offseason (after bolstering the defense), and not one thing was done to address it.
It seems like drkenneth's statement is "well there was nothing they could have done to fix the O-line), and I don't think that's true.
Why then when the team decides to agree with those perceptions that it is a wrong move to bring them back.
Personally, I think it is because the OL is a tough area to dissect and as a group, we aren't very knowledgeable on who could be good and who isn't. But it seems odd that posters that pretty much called for Schwartz and Beatty to be gone - now want to have them here as the missing pieces. Just seems like strange logic.
There's a Schwartz I'd take, but he'a a Panther.
But you also have to keep in mind that the Apple pick and the Hall signing were made after Prince was already on Jacksonville. If we resign Prince and Jenkins, we may not take Apple there, or may even still draft Apple but not sign Hall.
Personally, if I could swap Jenkins for Okung/Schwartz/Osemele, and have a starting tackle in addition to Prince+Hall+Apple, I'd go that route. Of course we don't know if things would have shaken out the same way, but that's just my personal opinion.
However, maybe there's something else going on with Prince that we don't know about. It's beyond strange to see the contract numbers for the players ranked around him in the link that the OP posted compared to Princes.
Oh, and while we're talking about potential moves we could have made this offseason, I would have made a very very strong run at Gipson. I am VERY excited to see what Thompson can do, but Gipson has the potential to be an absolute stud and part of our defensive core, and I'm sure we would have adjusted our draft strategy to benefit the team in some other way (maybe taking an interior lineman in the 3rd round, or picking up a RB there instead of in the 5th).
The funny thing is I'm not even really ripping Reese that much. I think his moves were great this offseason, I just am not fully on board with Jenkins at that price, and more importantly think he hasn't finished the rebuild he started with the O-line.
He has mismanaged the O-line for years. As another poster said, it's been arguably the biggest problem with this team since 2013. We've had 3 offseasons, it should be rebuilt by now. I've been consistent in wanting to fix this for years. We only have a few more years of Eli left, and we need to do everything in our power to put the right pieces around him. I wanted Martin in 2014 (glad we got OBJ of course though), wanted them to sign Bualaga a year or two ago, wanted Alex Boone/Schwartz/Ouewhatever this year, and was happy they took a tackle when they took Flowers (the pundits said we reached by Reese nails his first round pick, so I have faith in him as a player).
It's just so strange to me that we spent 3 high draft picks on the OL in 2 years, but don't sign any FAs to "complete the set" so to speak.
Fixing the O-line should have been second priority this offseason (after bolstering the defense), and not one thing was done to address it.
It seems like drkenneth's statement is "well there was nothing they could have done to fix the O-line), and I don't think that's true.
So let's say the GM spend all-available resources on fixing the OL.
What about S?
What about #2 WR?
What about the DL and the pass-rush/Run defense?
What about CB?
You're acting like this team had one hole that needed to be fixed, and it was ignored (which it wasn't).
The current OL has two first rounders, and a 2nd rounder (all 3 drafted since 2013)
I'm not saying the OL is complete, or nothing more could be done. But, you're acting like OL are built over night. They aren't.
Look around the league. Everyone needs OL help. And this isn't Madden. You don't just go to the OT store and pick up what you need. Not everyone wants to play here. There are 31 other teams that have OL needs.
Would have loved a guy like Cordy Glenn (we should have drafted him), but he was not available.
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I don't see you addressing that in your thread. You can't possibly be happy with the last three 6-10 records, or JR's draft record prior to the past few drafts.
It seems like your post is somewhat of an apologia for JR's performance, yet I can't believe that you really feel he's done an adequate job of addressing the OL in either FA or the draft over the years.
Is it our scouting of OL prospects? We certainly haven't hit on even one low round draft choice since DD. Is it an undervaluing of the position? Doesn't seem to me to be so, given the selections of Pugh and Flowers, some of our FA signings, and our likely pick of Conklin if he'd been there for us. So what exactly is it? Does it come back to scouting?
And, I can understand the cutting of Beatty, who didn't lay it on the line for the team last year. But why would you cut Schwartz, who is at least a relatively competent OG, and a guy who can at least fill in at OT?
Don't you think that something is wrong here?
Of course I'm not happy with the past few years. I've watched this team my whole life.
I just choose to take a step back, take a deep breath, and look at the big picture. I've seen this team win 4 Super Bowls, 2 in the past 10 years. Yet, we have posters fellating the Cowboys, who have won 2 playoff games in 20 years.
I just have a realistic view of things. Bad drafts happen, and they will happen in the future. Teams aren't built overnight.
The "past few drafts" (2014- Present..You know, after the messiah Gettlemen left) have resulted in 8 starters.
The off-season was a success. Of course we won't know until the games are real, but complaining about it seems like grasping at straws.
The OL simply isn't complete yet. Simple as that. It's easy to say "we should have drafted X player in x round".....The OL needs 2 more starters. We'll most likely have to wait until next year.
And if the OL was complete, the BBI twat-brigade would bitch about something else.
As I've stated before, it's as if 45% of BBI thinks it's 1986, 45% thinks it's Madden, 10% have a reasonable, big-picture view.
There are no complete teams in the NFL. Every team has issues.
If you can't see the drafting is trending upward, then you can't be helped.
Again, OL may have to wait another year. Unless of course, we trade for Anthony Davis, Sign a retired Monroe, and re-sign Beatty, who we cut, and is currently not playing on an NFL team. Brilliant.
Again, Davis probably wasn't available, but IF he was, are you trying to say it'd have been a bad move to get him on the team?
Can you justify that please? The only argument I can think of is questioning his commitment to football, but he did apply for reinstatement after a year (just like he said he did), and he immediately makes this team far more of a contender.
There were rumblings that Monroe retired because he couldn't find a team that would play him at LT. Would you rather have Flowers/Newhouse at tackle positions, or Monroe/Flowers? Monroe didn't retire right away - he was released.
Thirdly, stop trying to paint everyone with a broad brush. There are people, including myself, who are relatively happy with the GM and the moves the team has made that still think they have managed the offensive line horrendously. And many of us didn't just start talking about the O-line this last offseason, but since before the 2013 season.
You act as if this one offseason is in a bubble. Sure, circumstances change from season to season, but the O-line has been an issue for over 3 seasons now.
And to be honest, I do agree with you in one important way - the O-line IS one starter away from being decent to above average. And THAT is why it's so fucking maddening that Reese couldn't find a way to address it and finish the damn job off.
Jerry and Newhouse are not starters, and it's ridiculous for the Giants to go into the season with them penciled in.
I get the frustration with the OL, I wish the OL was better.
We need a OT. They don't come easy. Just because you think a move should have/could have been made, doesn't make true.
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You can add Mitchell Schwartz to the list of players I'd have considered, provided the Giants could afford it. Also, I didn't realize that drkenneth was actually the OP who started this thread specifically to argue with people are ripping the GM.
The funny thing is I'm not even really ripping Reese that much. I think his moves were great this offseason, I just am not fully on board with Jenkins at that price, and more importantly think he hasn't finished the rebuild he started with the O-line.
He has mismanaged the O-line for years. As another poster said, it's been arguably the biggest problem with this team since 2013. We've had 3 offseasons, it should be rebuilt by now. I've been consistent in wanting to fix this for years. We only have a few more years of Eli left, and we need to do everything in our power to put the right pieces around him. I wanted Martin in 2014 (glad we got OBJ of course though), wanted them to sign Bualaga a year or two ago, wanted Alex Boone/Schwartz/Ouewhatever this year, and was happy they took a tackle when they took Flowers (the pundits said we reached by Reese nails his first round pick, so I have faith in him as a player).
It's just so strange to me that we spent 3 high draft picks on the OL in 2 years, but don't sign any FAs to "complete the set" so to speak.
Fixing the O-line should have been second priority this offseason (after bolstering the defense), and not one thing was done to address it.
It seems like drkenneth's statement is "well there was nothing they could have done to fix the O-line), and I don't think that's true.
So let's say the GM spend all-available resources on fixing the OL.
What about S?
What about #2 WR?
What about the DL and the pass-rush/Run defense?
What about CB?
You're acting like this team had one hole that needed to be fixed, and it was ignored (which it wasn't).
The current OL has two first rounders, and a 2nd rounder (all 3 drafted since 2013)
I'm not saying the OL is complete, or nothing more could be done. But, you're acting like OL are built over night. They aren't.
Look around the league. Everyone needs OL help. And this isn't Madden. You don't just go to the OT store and pick up what you need. Not everyone wants to play here. There are 31 other teams that have OL needs.
Would have loved a guy like Cordy Glenn (we should have drafted him), but he was not available.
Actually, no, that's NOT what I'm acting like. I'm acting like they didn't complete the job this year when they had an opportunity to.
And no, again, I'm not acting like there was one hole on the team (I literally said above there wasn't).
Your post is built on an unrealistic premise, because it would NOT take "all available resources" to fix the O-line. They needed one player, maybe two. They'd only need a guard if they at least hung on to Beatty to see what he could do. Besides, you said it yourself - there IS still cap room on this team, though a sizable portion needs to be earmarked for OBJ, JPP, and Hankins (in that order, IMO).
Basically these are the scenarios that I'd have mix and matched from to fill those holes (and keep in mind, the Giants actually DID do a lot of these moves).
S - My first choice would have been to sign Gipson, but if not, I'd have drafted a player (they did).
#2 WR - same as above, I'd have tried hard to sign Matthews, Sanu, Benjamin, or Kearse. Out of those players, I'd have targeted Sanu and Matthews because I think they are the best values. I'd probably still have drafted a WR in addition, so I wouldn't change the Sterling pick.
Defense - I like what they did on defense and have no qualms, but I've already gone over Prince vs Jenkins. My personal opinion is that I would have signed Hall and Prince, while still drafting Apple. I'd use the money that went to Jenkins to fix the OL. I'd aggressively explore a trade for Davis if I couldn't land an OL in FA. Did they? Was he even available? I have no idea, but I do know that Anthony Davis makes this team MUCH better, and IMO I'd rather have him than next year's 3rd round pick, which off the top of my head has actually historically been Reese's worst round.
So there you have it...I'd have probably made many of the same moves the Giants actually did make, but would have explored Gipson, Davis, and Sanu/Matthews to a much greater degree.
Personally, I'd rather have spent the money on Gipson than Jenkins considering it happened before the draft.
I suspect we'll add one or two more off waivers before the season starts (at least I hope so) but we're gonna be scrambling a lot all year to overcome a poor OL if we don't land someone who can play effectively. It's a shame to waste another year of Eli to a ineffective OL.
Reese I'm sure knows this better than anyone. I simply can't imagine he's feeling good about the right side of the line or about the probable starting LT. Platitudes about there being no complete teams doesn't change that. Big difference on Sundays between serviceable players and bad ones. A bad LT can sink an entire season.
I get the frustration with the OL, I wish the OL was better.
We need a OT. They don't come easy. Just because you think a move should have/could have been made, doesn't make true.
And this is exactly why I'm saying the O-line woes aren't relegated to this offseason alone, and this is exactly why I'm saying I wouldn't have cut Beatty until training camp started.
Let's set aside the fact that there is probably some team chemistry related reason to cut Beatty (just for argument's sake)... what is the downside in bringing him back to try and sure up the ONE glaring hole we have on the line? What was the point of cutting him so early? It just doesn't make sense to me with the information we have available.
What's annoying about the tackle position is that this hole has been there for quite some time. When we had Beatty, we didn't have Flowers. We get Flowers, we cut Beatty.
In 2015, I'd have made a run at Bryan Bulaga, who can play both the guard and tackle spot. He's not a world beater per se, but he's versatile, and would not prevent the Giants from drafting Flowers. Signing Bulaga would give the Giants the flexibility to still build the line with the players they want, but at least cover their ass if they ended up with a hole at T or G.
While BBI has no shortage of reactionaries, it doesn't make sense to frame the critics of the O-line as being exclusively within that context.
it's been one of the weakest units on the team since 2013 and is arguably the most important unit on a football team. Are you really perplexed that people aren't satisfied that literally *nothing* was done to improve the unit?
I would have loved Cordy, Osemele, or Schwartz. Would have been great to add another upgrade on the OL. But it's clear those guys were never options, as there are 31 other teams vying for OL talent.
Below is a list of all FA OL signings for 2016.
OL FA 2016 - ( New Window )