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Eli's decision making will make or break this season - duh

mattlawson : 8/21/2016 8:40 pm
After an interception riddled 2010 season - not all of which were his fault - Eli Manning put together a season for the ages... with no running game and no defense the following year to propel his team to another playoff appearance and another amazing Super Bowl victory. He carried the team with sound decision making and doing exactly what he set out to do - reduce turnovers, Focus on the short passing game, and be in a position to win the game in the fourth quarter.

After a successful season in which his offense and his decision-making lead the team to ultimate victory - some coaches were hired away, the Giants became a victim of their own success - and Eli got a bit more away from what delivered his second Lombardy trophy and MVP. 2013 was even worse behind the worst offensive line we've ever seen... And it cost Kevin Gilbride his job.

As plainly as I can say it - Eli Manning needs to get the ball out quick to his weapons - hitting them in motion to create big plays - not only to his WRs but also to the TEs and RBs. This offensive line demands it.

Insistence on running the football to set up the passing game has passed this offensive line by. Eli needs to take command of this offense and pass the ball to set up the run - as opposed to a straightahead running attack. A good short passing game basically is a run game. Lots of teams do it... The Patriots of course being the best example.

Now, We have the tools to do it! Make no mistake this offense is ready for metamorphosis. Shane Vereen and our tight ends catch the ball extremely well. Time to not only utilize it, but plan on it. Make it part of the fabric of the offense - not a last resort.

We're going to have three very speedy wide receivers that can work underneath as well as get over the top. i'd like to see them work underneath and move the chains a hell of a lot more than throwing the deep balls down the sidelines. This offense cannot be what it's been for the last several years, run the ball on first and second down and then a deep pass. Fuck that shit. Even in preseason let's get the ball passed out to RBs and TEs in space so we can see them work it downfield. Our line CLEARLY prefers pass blocking. We have the tools to methodically work the ball down the field 80/20 pass to run. Let's see it.

Eli has the ability to take command - he needs to act on it, step up and throw the ball. The line isn't going to start magically run blocking like it's 2008. Eli needs to lead and set his team up for succes. He's done it many times before, Now it's time to do it again.

LETS GO



35 tds; 14 ints; 4400 yards  
The_Boss : 8/21/2016 8:53 pm : link
That is what Eli did last year, which was virtually equaled the in 2014. He likely puts up similar #'s this year. He is a given, despite it being obvious he doesn't trust his protection. I have relative confidence the D and ST's will hold up their end of the bargain. There are 3 guys, and only 3 guys, who will determine what sort of year 2016 is: Flowers, Jerry, and Newhouse.
agree  
GiantNatty : 8/21/2016 8:54 pm : link
the stubborn insistence with the run is taking the ball out of their best player's hands. been saying it for years. i was hoping we'd see a difference this year but so far it looks exactly the same...
RE: 35 tds; 14 ints; 4400 yards  
mattlawson : 8/21/2016 8:56 pm : link
In comment 13080633 The_Boss said:
Quote:
That is what Eli did last year, which was virtually equaled the in 2014. He likely puts up similar #'s this year. He is a given, despite it being obvious he doesn't trust his protection. I have relative confidence the D and ST's will hold up their end of the bargain. There are 3 guys, and only 3 guys, who will determine what sort of year 2016 is: Flowers, Jerry, and Newhouse.


What was the W/L record again?
RE: agree  
David in LA : 8/21/2016 9:02 pm : link
In comment 13080636 GiantNatty said:
Quote:
the stubborn insistence with the run is taking the ball out of their best player's hands. been saying it for years. i was hoping we'd see a difference this year but so far it looks exactly the same...


I got the sense that yesterday was all about evaluating the running game. The first team opened up the first two series with run run pass. We went up against a good defense yesterday. Jerry Hughes completely overwhelmed the right side, he makes a lot of good pros look bad. If Donnell doesn't whiff and is somehow able to sustain his block outside, I think we would have seen far less 3rd and longs. I'd wager that we open up the playbook when the snaps count.
RE: RE: 35 tds; 14 ints; 4400 yards  
The_Boss : 8/21/2016 9:03 pm : link
In comment 13080640 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 13080633 The_Boss said:


Quote:


That is what Eli did last year, which was virtually equaled the in 2014. He likely puts up similar #'s this year. He is a given, despite it being obvious he doesn't trust his protection. I have relative confidence the D and ST's will hold up their end of the bargain. There are 3 guys, and only 3 guys, who will determine what sort of year 2016 is: Flowers, Jerry, and Newhouse.



What was the W/L record again?


You're missing my point. Eli can very well put up elite level passing numbers, the D could be at worst middle of the pack, and the ST's (due to improved bottom of the roster talent) should be even stronger than last year. But that can all be rendered meaningless if Newhouse, Jerry, and Flowers perform like fringe NFL offensive linemen, as they have thus far. They play well, which seems far fetched right now, this can be a 10-11 win team. They play like they have this preseason, this is likely the 5th consecutive season missing the playoffs.
Good teams can win with 1, maybe 2, weak links  
The_Boss : 8/21/2016 9:10 pm : link
On the OL. Look at the Packers, Seahawks, and Steelers as examples. The NYG problem is they have 3, of which 2 were among the worst at their position league wide at OT and the 3rd is an average to below average RG, depending on your POV. Add to that a stable of TE's who are immune to blocking and the situation on the OL is critical.
I'm going in expecting a much better D  
mattlawson : 8/21/2016 9:27 pm : link
They will keep us in games. But the line is not a road grading run blocking line. And they aren't even a pulling line... They suck at run blocking period. They are much better as a unit pass blocking - so my point is we need to go with it. Play to our strengths ... And Eli needs to get the ball out to the underneath guys and keep the chains moving. I know he last 2 years he's been much better statistically and they put up points ... This is about controlling the game like you would if you were running the ball. High % plays that pick up first downs and keep our defense off the field. What I saw out of the first two games was an over emphasis on running the ball.

If coach wants to be a heavy handed team - our strength is NOT a downhill run game. It's passing the ball and getting backs and TEs in space to catch and run. Time to see it.
David in LA  
GiantNatty : 8/21/2016 9:57 pm : link
certainly possible and i hope so. but why not see if your pass blocking is and route running are where they need to be given that there are more moving parts with the passing game than with the running game?
Eli & OL  
stretch234 : 8/22/2016 7:10 am : link
The fact is last year, he did not have to unload the ball early due to the OL. The vast majority of games, Eli had plenty of time to throw the ball. This notion that he had to get the ball out due to the OL is simply not true.

This OL is a much better pass blocking OL than run blocking OL
How can you make a prediction..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/22/2016 8:27 am : link
like this based off of 2 preseason games, including one where Eli didn't play?

Quote:
gree
GiantNatty : 8/21/2016 8:54 pm : link : reply
the stubborn insistence with the run is taking the ball out of their best player's hands. been saying it for years. i was hoping we'd see a difference this year but so far it looks exactly the same...


A lot of coaches use preseason to evaluate things they don't have a handle on. Parcells used to use preseason as a way of figuring out who were going to be his key backups.

We don't have history on McAdoo, but based on sitting Eli week 1, I'm pretty sure, he's trying to figure out what he has in Nassib, the running game and the OL. How often or not we are running in preseason should bear little resemblance to what will happen in the regular season.
RE: 35 tds; 14 ints; 4400 yards  
djstat : 8/22/2016 8:47 am : link
In comment 13080633 The_Boss said:
Quote:
That is what Eli did last year, which was virtually equaled the in 2014. He likely puts up similar #'s this year. He is a given, despite it being obvious he doesn't trust his protection. I have relative confidence the D and ST's will hold up their end of the bargain. There are 3 guys, and only 3 guys, who will determine what sort of year 2016 is: Flowers, Jerry, and Newhouse.
What are the boss of? Only three guys will determine the success? May be the dumbest comment I have ever heard. There are 11 starters on offense. Those three players can be all world but if the other 8 starters don't do their jobs well it doesn't matter.

LOL...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/22/2016 8:51 am : link
Quote:
There are 3 guys, and only 3 guys, who will determine what sort of year 2016 is: Flowers, Jerry, and Newhouse


I'm pretty sure comments like this are made where the poster thinks he's got an excellent point, but all it really does is expose them as complete idiots with little grasp on a team sport.

3 OL are going to determine the fate of the season, despite having a complete other side of the ball and special teams? Not to mention that all of those 3 were part of an offense last year that was decent.

Just an idiotic throw-away line
This team's success will depend on the success of the O-line  
joe48 : 8/22/2016 10:00 am : link
If we can somehow block better and open some holes plus protect Eli we will have a chance at a division title. SOS equals 7-9 or 8-8. End of story.
RE: LOL...  
Old Dirty Beckham : 8/22/2016 10:09 am : link
In comment 13080918 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


There are 3 guys, and only 3 guys, who will determine what sort of year 2016 is: Flowers, Jerry, and Newhouse



I'm pretty sure comments like this are made where the poster thinks he's got an excellent point, but all it really does is expose them as complete idiots with little grasp on a team sport.

3 OL are going to determine the fate of the season, despite having a complete other side of the ball and special teams? Not to mention that all of those 3 were part of an offense last year that was decent.

Just an idiotic throw-away line


You really are a piece of shit. All you do is insult other posters. I remember when Eric called you out on it and you threw a hissy fit and declared you were "leaving BBI." Too bad you're not a man of your word.
You are the..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/22/2016 10:17 am : link
piece of shit. At least I call out stupid posts instead of just crusading against the coaches and front office of the team I'm supposedly rooting for.

Do you see me insulting posters who don't sound like idiots?

Am I ripping B in ALB for his excellent take on the state of the OL? Do I rip anything dorgan posts about x's and o's? Do I rip the great work Sy does every year on draft prospects?

You know who I rip? some fuckstick who thinks the balance of the season hinges on 3 players. If you only see the posts where I'm ripping somebody, you have a greater lack of awareness than I already thought.
RE: You are the..  
Old Dirty Beckham : 8/22/2016 10:35 am : link
In comment 13081072 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
piece of shit. At least I call out stupid posts instead of just crusading against the coaches and front office of the team I'm supposedly rooting for.

Do you see me insulting posters who don't sound like idiots?

Am I ripping B in ALB for his excellent take on the state of the OL? Do I rip anything dorgan posts about x's and o's? Do I rip the great work Sy does every year on draft prospects?

You know who I rip? some fuckstick who thinks the balance of the season hinges on 3 players. If you only see the posts where I'm ripping somebody, you have a greater lack of awareness than I already thought.


Couldnt you simply ignore the posts you dont like instead of resorting to name calling and insults?

What makes me a piece of shit? You may not like the content of my posts but I dont insult and belittle other posters (except you of course).

You ignored my comment about your little hissy fit. My gut tells me you have little social interaction outside of this site so you came back after you realized nobody gave a shit you were gone. You're an angry guy, it's pretty obvious. It's just a football message board. If you dont care for someone's post you can either respectfully disagree or move on. It's not that hard.
RE: RE: You are the..  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/22/2016 10:45 am : link
In comment 13081107 Old Dirty Beckham said:
Quote:
My gut tells me you have little social interaction outside of this site so you came back after you realized nobody gave a shit you were gone. You're an angry guy, it's pretty obvious. It's just a football message board. If you dont care for someone's post you can either respectfully disagree or move on. It's not that hard.


ODB - your gut would be wrong. There is a vast body of evidence that Fatman has vast social interactions outside of this site. He is a passionate guy with very strong opinions, many of which I share.

There are way too many posters who crawl out of the woodwork like lemmings and say the stupidest things -- and it can be quite irritating. I guess you can choose to ignore it -- Fatman likes to swing at it. We are an ornery community here -- a large core of us place a high value on knowledgable discourse, and have little patience for lemming like or chicken little like behavior.
...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/22/2016 10:55 am : link
Quote:
You ignored my comment about your little hissy fit


I didn't post on BBI for 3 months from January on. There were a bunch of idiot trolls posing as Reese haters and then about 20 incarnations of the Simo brothers allowed to come back and posts drivel until outed. That's part of the online community - policing behaviors so the mods don't have to do everything. I stepped away from that and it looks like I wasn't the only one realizing there were some ridiculously shitty posters and a slew of dupes posting with one agenda.

I think I'll take a break each year - no need to spend the entire time in the dead on the season to discuss things. In the down season, I'll post on soccer threads or video game threads and leave the rest for the masses.
RE: ...  
Klaatu : 8/22/2016 11:12 am : link
In comment 13081148 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


You ignored my comment about your little hissy fit



I didn't post on BBI for 3 months from January on. There were a bunch of idiot trolls posing as Reese haters and then about 20 incarnations of the Simo brothers allowed to come back and posts drivel until outed. That's part of the online community - policing behaviors so the mods don't have to do everything. I stepped away from that and it looks like I wasn't the only one realizing there were some ridiculously shitty posters and a slew of dupes posting with one agenda.

I think I'll take a break each year - no need to spend the entire time in the dead on the season to discuss things. In the down season, I'll post on soccer threads or video game threads and leave the rest for the masses.


I took a time-out, myself, last year. Way too many Reese-bashing trolls (like that ghost718 guy), who offer nothing constructive, just take swipes at Reese every chance they get.
RE: LOL...  
The_Boss : 8/22/2016 11:56 am : link
In comment 13080918 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


There are 3 guys, and only 3 guys, who will determine what sort of year 2016 is: Flowers, Jerry, and Newhouse



I'm pretty sure comments like this are made where the poster thinks he's got an excellent point, but all it really does is expose them as complete idiots with little grasp on a team sport.

3 OL are going to determine the fate of the season, despite having a complete other side of the ball and special teams? Not to mention that all of those 3 were part of an offense last year that was decent.

Just an idiotic throw-away line

Are you really the cock sucking douchebag you play on this site in real life too? Don't question me. This team was 6-10 last year because the D blew ass AND the OL held back the offense from being better. Maybe if we didn't suck in the red zone or were able to run the ball just a little, maybe they win another 2-3 games. What to know why the OL sucked? Jerry, Newhouse, and Flowers. The latter being graded among the worst in the entire league. Want to know why they've sucked thru 2 preseason games? Jerry, Newhouse, and Flowers. Now go fuck yourself...assuming you can still find your dick you fat fuck
Another guy..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/22/2016 12:14 pm : link
who assumes I'm fat. Love it.
well this escalated quickly...  
mattlawson : 8/22/2016 12:16 pm : link
to name calling
RE: Another guy..  
The_Boss : 8/22/2016 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13081309 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
who assumes I'm fat. Love it.


Not fat? Who cares.
However, cock sucking douchebag does apply.
If I'm a douchebag cocksucker..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/22/2016 12:35 pm : link
for thinking you have a really shitty take on things, I guess I'll suck somebody dry with pleasure.

Tons better than boiling things down to a ridiculous throwaway line that 3 players hold the key to the season, all 3 of whom were part of a 6th ranked offense last year, but why float stats and reason to somebody that's stupid enough to speak in absolutes.
RE: If I'm a douchebag cocksucker..  
The_Boss : 8/22/2016 12:55 pm : link
In comment 13081359 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
for thinking you have a really shitty take on things, I guess I'll suck somebody dry with pleasure.

Tons better than boiling things down to a ridiculous throwaway line that 3 players hold the key to the season, all 3 of whom were part of a 6th ranked offense last year, but why float stats and reason to somebody that's stupid enough to speak in absolutes.


OK chief. Whatever you say. It's not a throwaway line when the 3 players in question are, to be blunt, horeshit players at the moment. And 2 of them graded out last year among the worst OT's in the sport. It's hard to win consistently with 3 weak links on a 5 man unit (as well as TE's who are seemingly immune to blocking). So yes, I'll maintain my premise: if those 3 play like we are (sadly) accustomed to, your weekends in January won't be including any NYG games on tv....
I'd expect..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/22/2016 1:12 pm : link
nothing else than for you to be proud to stand by your shitty comments.
RE: I'd expect..  
The_Boss : 8/22/2016 1:29 pm : link
In comment 13081449 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
nothing else than for you to be proud to stand by your shitty comments.


Other than disparaging/insulting posters, what value do you actually bring to these forums? I see nothing but other posters shitting on you constantly. At what point does that become tiresome?? (Que some condescending bullshit line...have I gotten you figured out yet?)
Hmm..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/22/2016 1:45 pm : link
seems like you only see the posts you want to see.

Tell me where I'm belittling anyone on these posts from today or yesterday:
Quote:
Jon..
FatMan in Charlotte : 12:32 pm : link : reply
I agree. But it is an inexact science. The probability of Cruz getting back to form that we know is slim. The probability of Nicks ever returning to form was unlikely.

Even with injuries, All Pro players are going to get the benefit of the doubt - whether that's correct or not.

To be sure - it has had an impact on us, but the injury situation has made things that are normally a slower decline at certain positions like OL or S (and even WR) and accelerated it to a critical need.


Quote:
Terps..
FatMan in Charlotte : 1:21 pm : link : reply
in a way it is semantics, but this stance is one that happens a lot here:

Quote:
This team has been dog shit for three years but I'm out of line pointing out that Dallas is better?


BBI'ers tend to hold Dallas on a pedestal despite them really winning hardly anything of meaning for the past 21 years. Sean Lee is still feared as a great player, while his mirror image Jon Beason was a useless piece of shit.

Every one of their linemen are massive studs while we have complete crap, yet whose QB has been hurt three of the past 4 years?

Reese was asleep at the wheel for not signing McCain and really should have lowered his character concerns to take a look at Hardy.

I mean, Dallas was 3 games out of 1st when Romo came back last year and even Eric predicted that Dallas would win the division, despite the fact that the Giants were a self-destructing last drive away from winning the opener when Romo was healthy.

I know this next statement doesn't apply to you because you appreciate the SB wins, but a lot of people really tout Dallas as a powerhouse and even a model we should aspire to, yet they haven't won shit and last year we saw what happened when they have a Giants-like situation with injuries. This year, we'll see how they handle having an atrocious defense.


Here's a comment where I realize I don't know a whole lot

Quote:
If I were GM..
FatMan in Charlotte : 9:37 am : link : reply
my first priority would be to try an upgrade the league's worst D, which is exactly what happened.

For the OL, I'm not sure what I'd do since evaluating line play is really tough as a fan. Telling you who I'd sign would just be an exercise in knowing names and basing it off of reputations others have graded.

what I would've done is continue to invest draft picks on the line like reese has done. About the only difference is that I'd have tried to bring in as many bodies as possible to compete for spots using a success in numbers type of model. But then again - that might take away from the plan to develop the talent they have. Not sure there is a right answer here and I'm not knowledgeable enough the OL players around the league to provide specific names.


Another post where I'm not ripping anyone and commenting that I'm not an expert
Quote:
I think the OL..
FatMan in Charlotte : 10:07 am : link : reply
is adequate enough to keep us a top 10 offense. Solari's coaching should pay dividends as well.

I'm the first to admit that evaluating the OL is tough because it is the unit on the field that the average fan has the least amount of info. Most of us don't know what to look for and we sure as hell don't know what the scheme is supposed to be to see if the players are adhering to it properly. The "name players" we know are ones that talking heads discuss, but we have very little first-hand knowledge on who is good and who isn't.

And to proclaim the OL shitty, great or mediocre based on two preseason games is pretty bad. It is even bad to make a determination after 4 preseason games, but people do it anyway. My take is that the OL needs to maintain status quo from last year and teh improvements on the D should translate into 3-4 more wins, which will be good enough for a playoff berth.


These are just a few examples from the past two days. If I'm ripping you, it is because I think you're posting shitty stuff.
I guess..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/23/2016 8:54 am : link
the Boss didn't want to make a retort.

Typical - hit and run.
RE: Another guy..  
dep026 : 8/23/2016 9:00 am : link
In comment 13081309 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
who assumes I'm fat. Love it.


I dont consider myself fat. I am jolly. Nothing wrong with that....haha
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