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Raanan looking at several Giants roster decisions

Defenderdawg : 8/26/2016 2:12 pm
Analysis of where things stand at a few positions...
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I'd be very surprised (and a little dismayed)  
Big Blue '56 : 8/26/2016 2:16 pm : link
if we carry 5 RBs
Currie was my dark horse 5th Safety in a thread I started a while back  
Klaatu : 8/26/2016 2:19 pm : link
Of course, I expected Cooper Taylor and Bennett Jackson to already be injured, so we'll see what happens.
Just what we need  
lecky : 8/26/2016 2:21 pm : link
The Tight Ends on this team in the backfield and counting on them to make a block.
Yeah, I think Raanan is way off on the 5 RB comment  
ZogZerg : 8/26/2016 2:40 pm : link
It would be a huge shock if they carried 5 RBs.

I think folks forget that coaches see these guys every day and camp and part of the decision will be whether the guy given an opportunity proved enough to stick.
RE: I'd be very surprised (and a little dismayed)  
barens : 8/26/2016 2:42 pm : link
In comment 13087609 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
if we carry 5 RBs


Couldn't agree more...not exactly a position of strength, not sure why more would be better.
Is Williams  
ryanmkeane : 8/26/2016 2:47 pm : link
definitely safe? Jennings-Vereen-Perkins would be the most ideal IMO.
They are keeping more than 3  
Bill L : 8/26/2016 2:49 pm : link
it's likely Rainey and Darkwa are the odd men out.

Also, again,. make an argument that Perkins has shown more than Williams to put them in that order.
Perkins hasn't even played. I think he's a lock though.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/26/2016 2:55 pm : link
Rainey's a goner, and so is one of williams or darkwa.
25-25-3  
giants#1 : 8/26/2016 3:13 pm : link
Was the 'normal' split under TC and I'll assume it'll remain that way for now. Here's how I see the breakdown, with a twist...guys in italics are on the bubble.

Specials
Brown (Bullock game 1)
Wing
DeOssie

(parenthesis are the # on the final 53)

Offense
QB (2): Eli, Nassib - no explanation necessary
WR (6): Beckham, Shepard, Cruz, Davis, Harris, Lewis, King (one of these 2 makes it)
RB (4-5): Jennings, Vereen, Williams, Perkins, Darkwa
TE (3-4): Donnell, Tye, LaCosse, Adams, Johnson
FB (0-1): Whitlock
OL (8-9): Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Newhouse, Hart, pick 3 others

That's 29 total, so 4 are unlikely to make it. One of those 4 will be the loser between Lewis/King (assuming Cruz makes it thru the Jets game healthy). There's a chance they only go with 8 OL and try to get a couple on the PS. You're unlikely to dress more than 8 anyway.

So they essentially have 8-9 spots for RB/TE/FB with probably 4 roster locks in Jennings, Vereen, Tye, and Donnell. That leaves the last 4-5 spots between Williams/Perkins/Darkwa (likely at least 2 from this group) and LaCosse/Adams/Johnson/Whitlock (likely at least 1 more from this group).

Defense
DE (5): JPP, Vernon, Wynn, Owa, Okwara
DT (4): Harrison, Hankins, Bromley Milhouse, Hughes, Nix (1 of the 3 likely makes it)
LB (6-7): Kennard, Goodson, Casillas, Robinson Brinkley, Sheppard, Herzlich, JTT - my gut says whoever loses the starting MLB spot (Brinkley/Sheppard) misses the final cut and to the disappointment of BBI, Herzlich beats out JTT
DBs (9-10): DRC, Apple, Jenkins, Hall, Collins, Thompson, Berhe, Deayon, Wade, McFadden, Taylor, Jackson, M Thompson, Currie - if they want to keep both Brinkley and Sheppard and everyone finishes camp healthy, they might go 9 here and look to get a few of the young guys on the PS.
RE: Perkins hasn't even played. I think he's a lock though.  
giants#1 : 8/26/2016 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13087681 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Rainey's a goner, and so is one of williams or darkwa.


Rainey's got almost no chance.

Seeing how much more carries Williams has seen vs Darkwa/Perkins so far, I wonder if he's closer to the bubble than most think. Might be trying to give him a final chance to shine and making sure they are confident in their eval of him.

Seeing as Darkwa is part of the special teams units and Williams has a much smaller (if any) role there, Darkwa's spot might be more secure at this point.
Need the extra DB more than RB  
JonC : 8/26/2016 3:20 pm : link
They'll probably keep four : Jennings-Vereen-Williams-Perkins
6 CB, 4 S  
JonC : 8/26/2016 3:21 pm : link
with the possibility of keeping a kid like Jackson who can play both, as they've been trying to prep him big time this offseason for the role.
Interesting to read Currie is finally moving up  
JonC : 8/26/2016 3:27 pm : link
I thought he would've made the squad a year ago, ahead of Taylor.
I'm with the school that says 4 RBs and  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/26/2016 3:33 pm : link
Darkwa is out

anyway - all you need to know about this will be shown on Saturday
RE: Need the extra DB more than RB  
giants#1 : 8/26/2016 3:38 pm : link
In comment 13087721 JonC said:
Quote:
They'll probably keep four : Jennings-Vereen-Williams-Perkins


I think it's extra DB vs extra LB.

Offensively, I think its extra RB vs extra TE vs FB. And if they don't like any of the OL depth, they could easily go 8 there and free up an extra spot too.

Granted, they could always go with an unbalanced roster (26 D v 24 O), but I don't think there's a big reason to. In the past they usually do this when there's a bunch of injuries at one position (knock on wood).
Darkwa is going to be the odd man out. He can be the 1st call  
Victor in CT : 8/26/2016 3:39 pm : link
when Jennings gets hurt. Williams has looked good, much quicker. He was too big last year. I think he's going to redeem himself.
RE: I'm with the school that says 4 RBs and  
giants#1 : 8/26/2016 3:39 pm : link
In comment 13087742 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Darkwa is out


That was my first thought too, but if Darkwa is getting all the ST snaps and Williams isn't, don't be surprised if AW is the odd man out.

Granted this all assumes Perkins has shown enough to be a 'lock'. Maybe (likely) he dropped for a reason and hasn't done enough to standout.
...  
JonC : 8/26/2016 3:56 pm : link
>>>I think it's extra DB vs extra LB.

It could be, given JT's late start in camp and Robinson apparently contributing in solid fashion.

Big problems at TE, not sure throwing a 4th on the roster actually matters on the field. El Stinko.

I would think Darkwa has a chance  
BillT : 8/26/2016 4:01 pm : link
I think we'll know if he's the second RB in vs the Jets and gets a significant number of carries. That would show they are giving him a real shot. I like his all around game better than Williams'.
The issue with Darkwa, most likely  
JonC : 8/26/2016 4:03 pm : link
is limited upside and one dimensional.
They will not carry 5 RBs AND a FB  
njm : 8/26/2016 4:05 pm : link
And I'll say it again, unless there is a huge improvement in the blocking by the TE's, they have to carry a FB.
RE: The issue with Darkwa, most likely  
BillT : 8/26/2016 4:51 pm : link
In comment 13087797 JonC said:
Quote:
is limited upside and one dimensional.

Doesn't he run pretty well, catch pretty well and is a top ST guy. Doesn't seem very one dimensional.
RE: They will not carry 5 RBs AND a FB  
BillT : 8/26/2016 4:54 pm : link
In comment 13087803 njm said:
Quote:
And I'll say it again, unless there is a huge improvement in the blocking by the TE's, they have to carry a FB.

That's an interesting thought njm. However, Whitlock seems like the invisible man this summer. Few (if any?) camp reports, little (if any?) game time. Now, they're going to keep him? Stranger things have happened, I guess.
RE: RE: They will not carry 5 RBs AND a FB  
njm : 8/26/2016 5:04 pm : link
In comment 13087890 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 13087803 njm said:


Quote:


And I'll say it again, unless there is a huge improvement in the blocking by the TE's, they have to carry a FB.


That's an interesting thought njm. However, Whitlock seems like the invisible man this summer. Few (if any?) camp reports, little (if any?) game time. Now, they're going to keep him? Stranger things have happened, I guess.


Then they'd have either bring in another FB or another TE.
RE: RE: RE: They will not carry 5 RBs AND a FB  
BillT : 8/26/2016 5:14 pm : link
In comment 13087905 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13087890 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 13087803 njm said:


Quote:


And I'll say it again, unless there is a huge improvement in the blocking by the TE's, they have to carry a FB.


That's an interesting thought njm. However, Whitlock seems like the invisible man this summer. Few (if any?) camp reports, little (if any?) game time. Now, they're going to keep him? Stranger things have happened, I guess.



Then they'd have either bring in another FB or another TE.

I agree that someone who can block well is needed. I've been down on Donnell because it's been clear for a couple of years now he just can't block. It's going to be interesting.
what a shame it would be  
area junc : 8/26/2016 5:23 pm : link
if we kept andre williams over darkwa.

darkwa is a better RB and a better special teams player. that decision will show us a lot about whether we've learned our lesson upstairs
BillT  
JonC : 8/26/2016 5:51 pm : link
Darkwa runs pretty well between the tackles when he's got a hole. He's decisive with good vision. But as a runner he's not often running sweeps or getting to edge, and probing the edges is big in forcing defenses to account for more of the field. He's got ok hands and ok pass pro. AW has his own warts, but upside potential is key when you're talking about the third tailback. He's good on specials but they're more likely to keep a LB who's good on specials.
Bigger need moving forward  
JonC : 8/26/2016 5:55 pm : link
is an upgrade at #1 tailback.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/26/2016 5:58 pm : link
Quote:
what a shame it would be
area junc : 5:23 pm : link : reply
if we kept andre williams over darkwa.

darkwa is a better RB and a better special teams player. that decision will show us a lot about whether we've learned our lesson upstairs


Lessons learned, huh?

Peachy talking about that....
RE: BillT  
BillT : 8/26/2016 6:13 pm : link
In comment 13087955 JonC said:
Quote:
Darkwa runs pretty well between the tackles when he's got a hole. He's decisive with good vision. But as a runner he's not often running sweeps or getting to edge, and probing the edges is big in forcing defenses to account for more of the field. He's got ok hands and ok pass pro. AW has his own warts, but upside potential is key when you're talking about the third tailback. He's good on specials but they're more likely to keep a LB who's good on specials.

Which is why I said he wasn't one dimensional. Williams is a more physical runner but I don't see him as any better at "running sweeps or getting to edge, and probing the edges is big in forcing defenses to account for more of the field." He certainly isn't the pass receiver Darkwa is and not the STer either. I can live with whoever they choose.
Opinions will vary  
JonC : 8/26/2016 6:19 pm : link
The darkwa/AW decision is more about future expectations and ceiling. AW seems to have a ton of internal support.
RE: Opinions will vary  
BillT : 8/26/2016 6:25 pm : link
In comment 13087987 JonC said:
Quote:
The darkwa/AW decision is more about future expectations and ceiling. AW seems to have a ton of internal support.

Agreed.
Haven't been impressed with Jennings at all so far  
Mason : 8/26/2016 10:25 pm : link
Williams has looked like the best RB in preseason besides Vereen. I don't get the hype with Jennings. People point to his garbage season running stats. I don't know but when it counts the most the guy seems to either cough up the ball or can't get going.
Williams hasn't proven he's even a  
LauderdaleMatty : 8/26/2016 10:42 pm : link
Competent back up. Until he can learn to catch he's a huge liability and a huge clue it's a run when he's in. Easily the most one dimentional RB of the group. Can Darkwa be stashed on the PS? He may not have any more upside but Williams shouldn't be taking away snaps from anyone healthy.

Let's not pretend the Giants don't hold on to draft picks that don't prove shit for years. Moss, Beckum, Adrien Robinson and Barden spring to mind. Williams has had some success running. My guess is w Jennigns likely on his last year They pray he can develop. Don't think it happmesnbut he's been given another chance most 4th rounders doesn't get w other teams

I prefer Darkwa to Williams based on what I've seen...  
Milton : 8/26/2016 10:57 pm : link
I also prefer Nikita Whitlock to Williams based on what I've seen. But I don't get to see everything so I'll trust the judgment of the coaches.

I'm guessing:
RB: Jennings, Vereen, Darkwa, Perkins
H-Back: Will Johnson
TE: Donnell, Tye, LaCosse, Adams

p.s.--I know most of BBI thinks Tye is the biggest lock out of al the TE's, but I think his roster spot is vulnerable. They like Donnell's experience and catching radius in the green zone, LaCosse is the most complete, and Adams has the biggest upside. If they only keep three TE's, Tye could actually be the odd man out.
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