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The national anthem is and always will be a special part of the pre-game ceremony,” the team said in a statement issued to PFT. “It is an opportunity to honor our country and reflect on the great liberties we are afforded as its citizens. In respecting such American principles as freedom of religion and freedom of expression, we recognize the right of an individual to choose to participate, or not, in our celebration of the national anthem.” It’s unclear why Kaepernick sat. However, Kaepernick retweeted the following message on Thursday, which accompanied images of the American and Confederate flags: “The fact that you really believe that there is difference in these flags means that your [sic] ignoring history.” At a time when NFL players are criticized for not speaking out on social issues, Kaepernick has provided a very significant and conspicuous gesture. As the team noted, it’s his right to do so. But given that Kaepernick opted to make a stand by sitting during the traditional pregame honoring of the country and its flag — which is so tightly woven into the DNA of the NFL — there surely will be a reaction. |
Ohh well in that case...
Come on man, do you honestly believe that? When people yell "pigs" when a patrol car cruises by is that always with an asterisk of "I only mean it if you are the bad ones"? CK had plenty of time to make an excuse for a pretty obvious passive aggressive shot at police.
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it's supposed to represent rogue cops who still hold their positions, that are creating a dangerous environment not just for the community, but also the good cops with good intentions.
If that were actually true, then it would still go back to the early point about him having serious deficiencies in his messaging. He sits for the anthem and then has to go back and say it's because of this and not meant to disrespect them, he wears the fidel shirt but it's to message this and not to say that, he wears the socks but then has to clarify that it's meant to disrespect these but not disrespect them....Maybe if he wants to say something, criticize someone, whatever, maybe he should find a way to do it so that whatever he is saying pertains directly and specifically to the topic that interests him? Rather than making his target so specific and so general that it encompasses people and areas that he (supposedly) never meant to include.
Translation: He should protest in a more quiet manner that doesn't make headlines, or in a manner that I deem more palatable so we don't get people talking outside of their comfort zones.
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it's supposed to represent rogue cops who still hold their positions, that are creating a dangerous environment not just for the community, but also the good cops with good intentions.
Ohh well in that case...
Come on man, do you honestly believe that? When people yell "pigs" when a patrol car cruises by is that always with an asterisk of "I only mean it if you are the bad ones"? CK had plenty of time to make an excuse for a pretty obvious passive aggressive shot at police.
People rushed out to make their own interpretations without asking him himself what statement the socks were supposed to make.
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it's supposed to represent rogue cops who still hold their positions, that are creating a dangerous environment not just for the community, but also the good cops with good intentions.
Ohh well in that case...
Come on man, do you honestly believe that? When people yell "pigs" when a patrol car cruises by is that always with an asterisk of "I only mean it if you are the bad ones"? CK had plenty of time to make an excuse for a pretty obvious passive aggressive shot at police.
Weak answer he gave, too. Makes him look bad.
Colin can protest in anyway he damn well pleases. But that doesn't mean he's not going to get called out on something when he does something out there or something that doesn't exactly help his protest.
Its a bad look, and its incredibly hard to take him seriously, which is why I don't. He's tarnishing what should be a meaningful and strong message by acting like a child.
I know if you thought about that explanation you'd find it just as flimsy as someone wearing a confederate shirt but saying it only stands for "the good" part of Southern Heritage.
you can't pick and choose who you plan to offend when you do something intentionally offensive.
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it's supposed to represent rogue cops who still hold their positions, that are creating a dangerous environment not just for the community, but also the good cops with good intentions.
I know if you thought about that explanation you'd find it just as flimsy as someone wearing a confederate shirt but saying it only stands for "the good" part of Southern Heritage.
you can't pick and choose who you plan to offend when you do something intentionally offensive.
PJ, but there's a stark difference in offending what you're born with, than a small percentage of a specific occupation.
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In comment 13098255 David in LA said:
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it's supposed to represent rogue cops who still hold their positions, that are creating a dangerous environment not just for the community, but also the good cops with good intentions.
I know if you thought about that explanation you'd find it just as flimsy as someone wearing a confederate shirt but saying it only stands for "the good" part of Southern Heritage.
you can't pick and choose who you plan to offend when you do something intentionally offensive.
PJ, but there's a stark difference in offending what you're born with, than a small percentage of a specific occupation.
that's not the point and this is just my opinion. wearing socks that have pigs with police hats on is offensive to almost 100% of police men and women. not just the ones he is intending to offend or has issue with.
Just like wearing a confederate flag shirt regardless of your intentions is offensive to almost 100% of African Americans.
you can't use the n-word and say "I wasn't talking about you (colloquially) when I used it"
hate and prejudice don't work selectively that way.
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In comment 13098255 David in LA said:
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it's supposed to represent rogue cops who still hold their positions, that are creating a dangerous environment not just for the community, but also the good cops with good intentions.
If that were actually true, then it would still go back to the early point about him having serious deficiencies in his messaging. He sits for the anthem and then has to go back and say it's because of this and not meant to disrespect them, he wears the fidel shirt but it's to message this and not to say that, he wears the socks but then has to clarify that it's meant to disrespect these but not disrespect them....Maybe if he wants to say something, criticize someone, whatever, maybe he should find a way to do it so that whatever he is saying pertains directly and specifically to the topic that interests him? Rather than making his target so specific and so general that it encompasses people and areas that he (supposedly) never meant to include.
Translation: He should protest in a more quiet manner that doesn't make headlines, or in a manner that I deem more palatable so we don't get people talking outside of their comfort zones.
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In comment 13098255 David in LA said:
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it's supposed to represent rogue cops who still hold their positions, that are creating a dangerous environment not just for the community, but also the good cops with good intentions.
I know if you thought about that explanation you'd find it just as flimsy as someone wearing a confederate shirt but saying it only stands for "the good" part of Southern Heritage.
you can't pick and choose who you plan to offend when you do something intentionally offensive.
PJ, but there's a stark difference in offending what you're born with, than a small percentage of a specific occupation.
Probably, I can't say that I remember that brouhaha. I see what you're saying here. I cringe when parents make comments to their children when pointing out garbage men and telling them to stay in school so that's not them someday. There's an implied stigma against blue collar jobs (implied classism), which we don't encourage our kids enough that it's ok to consider a trade that's not white collar.
The point of the criticism is that Kap is a jackass. Dave is taking the ad hominem arguments and turning them into dismissals of real issues.
Yet no one has come on and said the oppression reference by Kap isn't an issue.
And just when you thought the lazy and cheap protestations couldn't be augmented, he wears cops are pigs socks... what a precocious fuck.
And if that was his intention, he's naive as fuck to think people would be OK with that explanation. Try and name any symbol in history that is meant as a slap at just a segment of a segment. If I wear a swastika, would people buy my reasoning that I'm doing it in an ironic protest of uppity Aryans?
The other reason it is farcical is because David, you wouldn't be so forgiving if the symbol was any type of slap at minorities, intended or not.
You're wrong. The REAL issue is that Kap is a jackass, stealing the NFL's huge audience in order to push an agenda he knows too little about.
The headline has Kap's name. It's self-aggrandizing, cheap politics that was transparent from the get-got, except for ideologues like yourself apparently.
And if that was his intention, he's naive as fuck to think people would be OK with that explanation. Try and name any symbol in history that is meant as a slap at just a segment of a segment. If I wear a swastika, would people buy my reasoning that I'm doing it in an ironic protest of uppity Aryans?
The other reason it is farcical is because David, you wouldn't be so forgiving if the symbol was any type of slap at minorities, intended or not.
To your first point, he didn't think it through. It doesn't invalidate the reason why he's sitting. It just invalidates him to certain audiences. However, the point is he's drawing attention to himself as a vessel for a serious issue. The dialogue between us is focused on the smaller fish that needs to be fried.
Your second point: There's often implied inherent inferiority when making remarks about minorities based on ethnicity, that's why it's not in the same ballpark as a remark on someone's occupation. That's why I'm less forgiving on slaps on minorities.
I'm not deciding anything for you. You can choose to think how you want. I have my reasons for my opinions on these issues, because I think they are important. You can choose to hear me out, or you can continue to be defensive of every talking point that makes you uncomfortable. Part of maturity is also being able to decipher what the main issue really is, and what else is tertiary to the cause itself. Colin's socks, and shirt is minutia compared to the bad apples that make good cops look bad.
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it seems that people will quickly affirm that, but then focus intently on all the other stuff.
You're wrong. The REAL issue is that Kap is a jackass, stealing the NFL's huge audience in order to push an agenda he knows too little about.
The headline has Kap's name. It's self-aggrandizing, cheap politics that was transparent from the get-got, except for ideologues like yourself apparently.
Oh really? People stopped watching the NFL? The audience will be there for a while, because the NFL is a money printing machine. One of the talking points floated around about athletes is that they don't leverage their celebrity enough towards causes, but when they choose to do so, they are now self aggrandizing.
That's your problem. Anyone that doesn't agree with you is either "uncomfortable" or racist. It's your calling card.
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In comment 13098810 David in LA said:
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it seems that people will quickly affirm that, but then focus intently on all the other stuff.
You're wrong. The REAL issue is that Kap is a jackass, stealing the NFL's huge audience in order to push an agenda he knows too little about.
The headline has Kap's name. It's self-aggrandizing, cheap politics that was transparent from the get-got, except for ideologues like yourself apparently.
Oh really? People stopped watching the NFL? The audience will be there for a while, because the NFL is a money printing machine. One of the talking points floated around about athletes is that they don't leverage their celebrity enough towards causes, but when they choose to do so, they are now self aggrandizing.
Ok, King of Take It Out of Context.
The topic is Colin Kaepernick. He's the only person I'm talking about (re: self-aggrandizing), aside from you and your willful ignorance, supercilious nonsense, and talking past and above people
Get that in your head, douchebag. You aren't the only one who cares about politics and issues of violence. And dropping to your knees for Kaepernick does absolutely NOTHING to help those causes, especially when no one denies those issues.
Keep talking around the topic though. You've done it for 6 pages now...
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I didn't drop down from the cosmos to tell you what's offensive or not. I think remarks on ethnicity is much worse than an occupational comment. To me it's in a different stratosphere.
i guess people are entitled to different scales for offensiveness, but even less offensive is still offensive. So, why ignore it altogether?
I personally wouldn't do the socks or the shirt, my point is that any perceived miscue on his part shouldn't take away from us talking about what he's trying to draw attention to. We shouldn't expect athletes to be as polished as a politician who has been around the block. He's an imperfect spokesperson, so what?
Then you should criticize HIS protest. He's sullying the issue by diminishing it and making it easier to dismiss.
That's great. But I'm sure people that get shot at while sitting in a squad car simply because they are wearing the uniform may feel a bit differently. These simple "remarks" that you speak of often have consequences at some level, and if CK is truly trying to help the situation, wearing those socks sure isn't the way to go about it. You may think it's insignificant, but it's not. Not by a long stretch. It's feeding the idea that cops are pigs. And this isn't helping anything.
Somehow you keep missing my point. The greater grievance is the one that should be addressed first.
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We should pay attention to the message that he was sending by not standing for the national anthem, because it's important. But we should dismiss the message that he was sending by wearing cop hating socks out onto the field, because, well, I'm not quite sure why. You can't have it both ways.
Somehow you keep missing my point. The greater grievance is the one that should be addressed first.
Alright. Let's address it. You go first...
It could be just a tee shirt. OR.. he CK trying to say something? We will find out I am sure.
It could be just a tee shirt. OR.. he CK trying to say something? We will find out I am sure.
This was covered like five or six pages ago.
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is he now a Fidel Castro fan? People weren't oppressed in Cuba were they?
It could be just a tee shirt. OR.. he CK trying to say something? We will find out I am sure.
This was covered like five or six pages ago.
sorry...was not reading 14 pages of the thread
David in LA : 10:13 pm : link : reply
because he's perceived to be an attention starved whore? He's an attention starved whore, yeah, but what he aired out was still legitimate.
And because Canseco was such a buffoon, none of his claims were ever investigated seriously. You've gotten to the point where you're making the same arguments we are without knowing it!
Just like Canseco. It isn't talking past one another - you keep thinking that no matter how derelict the messenger is in getting his point across that we need to discuss the message.
To give an example from BBI - people who rip on the team may have a point valid to discuss, but if their handle is ReeseEatsCock and all he keeps posting is "Reese sucks!" is it incumbent on us to give him an ear?
You aren't being consistent on how you approach other topics and I say this as someone who treats you with respect that you've earned. Had you been one of the usual suspects being this obtuse, you can bet I would've given at least a couple "fucktard" callouts by now:)
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