Kaepernick sits during National Anthem

Why should we care?

You don't have to care about this or anything..😎

Between the American flag and the Confederate flag?

Ummm...yeah...whatever, Kap.

...

me sad how poorly we do as a country conveying the role African Americans had in liberating themselves in the Civil War and how proud those black soldiers were carrying the Stars and Stripes into battle.

I think it is ok if he stays as long as he never removes his flag pin.

The 49ers referenced the 'freedom of religion" in their statement may be a clue about where this is coming from.

In comment 13088438 2ndroundKO said:

Quote:

Why should we care?

Seriously 2ndroundKO why be an asshole?

In comment 13088444 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

me sad how poorly we do as a country conveying the role African Americans had in liberating themselves in the Civil War and how proud those black soldiers were carrying the Stars and Stripes into battle.

Great point

its meaningless.

just like BBI...

As Eric said as well in current times the men and women’s lives that have been lost fighting for that flag he obviously has zero knowledge or respect for.

This is what happens if a person spends too much time in California. There are school districts passing out "Pledge Of Allegiance" waivers. If they don't want to stand and recite the pledge, the waiver allows them to sit and stare at their I-phones. Just another sad indication of a country in the decline. Kap just may be suffering from "tattoo poisoning". Here in Houston, the school district has major budget problems. The Board Of Directors decided to close some schools and lay off teachers to save some money. Meanwhile, they have also decided to spend 1.4 million to rename 8 schools because the current names are affiliated with the confederacy. This is what happens when liberals are placed in decision making positions. Its all about political correctness with common sense thrown out the window.

...

that once (if) he can't throw a football accurately any more, nobody cares what he thinks at all. Life can be tough when the high point is when you are 24 years old.

In comment 13088456 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

its meaningless. just like BBI...

Coffee spit!

but I have absolutely zero interest in players speaking out on social issues. I will never criticize them for keeping their social issue opinions to themselves.

Quote:

NFL players are criticized for not speaking out on social issues

some silly, unrelated, cartoonish, talk radio political soapbox.

Yay.

who are still fighting the Civil War. Not just a few, and some in very high positions of power.

And I have the right to think he's an asshole who has an IQ similar to an ice cube.

Maybe it would have raised somebodies social awareness if he was relevant at all.

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media

but it helps to base it on accurate information

In comment 13088482 Vin R said:

Quote:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media

Maybe he should go block traffic on the freeway instead of making millions playing a game. Some people don't know how good they have it.

In comment 13088484 bc4life said:

Quote:

but it helps to base it on accurate information

Bingo.

In comment 13088449 djstat said:

Quote:

In comment 13088438 2ndroundKO said: Quote: Why should we care? Seriously 2ndroundKO why be an asshole?

I'm guessing it's because 2ndroundKO sides with CK on this...

To an end. Let me pull a ryan locte since I'll be irrelevant soon.

"Colin Kaepernick signed a 6 year, $114,000,000 contract with the San Francisco 49ers, including a $12,328,766 signing bonus, $61,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $19,000,000."


So Kap gets to enjoy all the benefits this country offers for hard work and talent, but he wont get off his ass for 3 minutes for our National Anthem ???

I can't wait til he's irrelevant again.

A truly perfect name for you. Perhaps Kap may be setting himself up for a position with the NAACP.

Should have shut up while he had the chance...

Especially young people, take political stands based on the spin the political parties put out there on the issues, especially during an election year.

Fighting social injustice has always been a just cause and the foundation of our country. But for this young man to buy into the idea that the Confederate flag represents the values behind the Stars and Stripes is just another example of not doing your homework and buying into flawed rhetoric.

I feel badly for the fall out he might receive from this action.

In comment 13088498 Named Later said:

Quote:

"Colin Kaepernick signed a 6 year, $114,000,000 contract with the San Francisco 49ers, including a $12,328,766 signing bonus, $61,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $19,000,000." So Kap gets to enjoy all the benefits this country offers for hard work and talent, but he wont get off his ass for 3 minutes for our National Anthem ??? I can't wait til he's irrelevant again.

^^^^^^ Best, if not only, point in the thread and about the incident.

but maybe give him credit for taking a position that will make him more unpopular with part of the fan base and trying to stand up for those who he believes have no voice.

Not saying he's a brain scientist or rocket surgeon but it still is a risky move and taking a stand for something is kind of what we salute in this country.

(However misguided) by showing disrespect. He's entitled to his viewpoint and also entitled to express it, but not by being disrespectful. He's just being s dumbass. As Erix said the degree to which we don't acknowledge fully what African Americans have gone through in our history and what their contribution was during the Civil War for example is sad. If that is he point he's trying to make it needs to be done much better.

In that they seem to want to have very tight control over every aspect of presentation at a game. This seems way more noticeable or even notorious than having the wrong colored shoes or a ribbon on the jersey.

Heather MacDonald of the Manhattan Institute
are police racist ? - ( New Window )

I always thought singing the National Anthem at sporting events was a little odd since we don't expect to do it at other public events. I understand why it is played during the Olympics that makes sense.

I mean you don't go to concerts, movies, award shows or fashion shows and expect to hear the Anthem. Are there any other instances other than political events or 4th of July celebrations where the Anthem is played other than sporting events? Off the top of my head I can't think of any.

In comment 13088510 oghwga said:

Quote:

but maybe give him credit for taking a position that will make him more unpopular with part of the fan base and trying to stand up for those who he believes have no voice. Not saying he's a brain scientist or rocket surgeon but it still is a risky move and taking a stand for something is kind of what we salute in this country.

It's a risky move....in the People's Republic of San Francisco? Are you serious?

In comment 13088513 Dave on the UWS said:

Quote:

(However misguided) by showing disrespect. He's entitled to his viewpoint and also entitled to express it, but not by being disrespectful. He's just being s dumbass. As Erix said the degree to which we don't acknowledge fully what African Americans have gone through in our history and what their contribution was during the Civil War for example is sad. If that is he point he's trying to make it needs to be done much better.

You don't? I guess people who attack politicians and demonstrate with "unfriendly" signs are not making a political statement.

Europe $119-$220

If anyone feels oppressed here in the USA, please leave. Pretty simple

with Kaepernick is I don't understand his protest, which sort of defeats the purpose I'd think.

argument, it just seems pretty short sighted from a practical standpoint. Career on the skids. Who wants an underperforming lightning rod?
Maybe he just doesn't care, or didn't think about how people will react to his stance.

In comment 13088553 Crispino said:

Quote:

argument, it just seems pretty short sighted from a practical standpoint. Career on the skids. Who wants an underperforming lightning rod? Maybe he just doesn't care, or didn't think about how people will react to his stance.

Otoh, there is that 61 ml guaranteed...😀

real guts to do what he did knowing the heat that he was inevitably going to take afterward.

In comment 13088541 DennyInDenville said:

Quote:

Europe $119-$220 If anyone feels oppressed here in the USA, please leave. Pretty simple

I'm not for Kaps actions but this is the dumbest line of thinking.

So any American who is unhappy with how things are run here should leave? Wouldnt standing up for change be a better option?

Again, I'm not condoning Kaps actions just pointing out how stupid your post is.

In comment 13088541 DennyInDenville said:

Quote:

Europe $119-$220 If anyone feels oppressed here in the USA, please leave. Pretty simple

Kaepernick's misguided petulance aside, your point is that there are no examples of legitimately oppressed Americans?

And that, moreover, rather than trying to change things for the better - as those under the heel have done (or tried to do) since America's inception - they should just leave?

Would that be your advice going back decades pre Civil Right bill, pre Lawrence vs Texas, etc. etc. or do you have a specific cutoff date in mind when feelings of oppression are uniformly invalid?

Quote:

which accompanied images of the American and Confederate flags: “The fact that you really believe that there is difference in these flags means that your [sic] ignoring history.”

It's a popular subject this year and made more fraught by the campaign, in ways regrettable and not so he's weighing in. I think it's too crude, too broad a swathe, especially in this environment.

But going back to Eric's point: to my discredit I've never been a careful student of our Civil War. But a few months ago I read Our Man in Charleston which traces the history of the British Consul (officially at times, not so others) in that city. He was an ardent anti-slaver in the pro-slaver crucible prior to Fort Sumter and for most of the war. His chronicle of the plight of slaves, the inhuman characterization and treatment, and the lengths that whites, rich and poor, went to perpetuate the culture here and the trade with Africa (if I recall accurately, on average 70% of each boatload would die during or as a result of the passage) was just jaw-dropping.

In comment 13088469 Steve in South Jersey said:

Quote:

NFL players are criticized for not speaking out on social issues

NFL players are criticized for not speak out on social issues, but only if they support the positions approved by those doing the criticizing.

In comment 13088541 DennyInDenville said:

Quote:

Europe $119-$220 If anyone feels oppressed here in the USA, please leave. Pretty simple

Huh?

I don't agree with what Kapernick did, but it's his right. And if people want to criticize him, that their's right too.

Fully support your post. You can also add how some high schools are starting later so students can get their rest? Ha ha ha ha ha

In comment 13088565 Metnut said:

Quote:

real guts to do what he did knowing the heat that he was inevitably going to take afterward.

still don't agree with him politically and wouldn't want him on the Giants though

standing for the National Anthem if Kaepernick ever gets to play.

a hell of a lot for granted. Sure, it's a symbol one that has stood the test of time and had the balls to stand up against tyrrany and shit around the world, THAT SYMBOL! The problem with some of you younger guys is you were "educated" by a gathering of leftists who have no regard for country or American exceptionalism. You bitch and complain about the smallest of inconveniences and then disrespect the country that affords you to live with your parents well into adulthood. Try that in El Salvador, Burma, MEXICO! Realize what you have here, you know, that whole Carpe Diem thing? On the topic of the black cause, I played sports scholastically and collegiately with blacks, served with blacks in the Marine Corps and never had one racial incident! In fact, I was looked at as an honorary "brother" of sorts. So, and having said that, Kapernick can kiss my ass and needs to spend more than two weeks in someplace other than the US. This whole disrespect and disregard for the American Symbol is tired and disgusting. When I watch Usain Bolt pay homage to our National Anthem and this wannabe Joe Montana sits there, Fuck Him and all that think it doesn't make a difference. It (the flag) means too much around the world to those that live in repression and squalor and shit in the street. So before you blow it off as some publicity stunt, there is someone, somewhere watching saying, "see, that whole democracy thing doesn't work as well as you think it does" and will do everything thay can to shit on the USA as opposed to in the street! You stomp, burn, rip the flag in front of me and I'm kicking your ass, or die trying and that is not some beer muscles, or cyber gym workout talking here. You get paid millions per year to play a game (marginally at that) you stand the hell up, or sit permanently! Which in Kapernick's case is not too long down the road!

taking millions of American dollars though.

Justin Pugh �@JustinPugh
I will be STANDING during the National Anthem tonight. Thank you to ALL (Gender,Race,Religion)that put your lives on the line for that flag

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color."

I always ask someone who holds such a view of white-oppression: then why do Asians in this country -- not just a selective few at the top, but on average as an ethnic group of tens of millions -- somehow achieve higher education, lower crime rate, and higher income than even the whites, who are supposedly doing all these terrible oppressions from the top?

Are Asian people not color enough to be oppressed by the whites? Or did the white ruling class just somehow forgot to oppress this particular ethnic group? Or is the whites' oppression against the Asians so damn sophisticated and well-hidden that it already goes beyond and deeper than the trivial and mundane stuffs like education, income, and incarceration rate?

In comment 13088586 Marine One said:

Quote:

a hell of a lot for granted. Sure, it's a symbol one that has stood the test of time and had the balls to stand up against tyrrany and shit around the world, THAT SYMBOL! The problem with some of you younger guys is you were "educated" by a gathering of leftists who have no regard for country or American exceptionalism. You bitch and complain about the smallest of inconveniences and then disrespect the country that affords you to live with your parents well into adulthood. Try that in El Salvador, Burma, MEXICO! Realize what you have here, you know, that whole Carpe Diem thing? On the topic of the black cause, I played sports scholastically and collegiately with blacks, served with blacks in the Marine Corps and never had one racial incident! In fact, I was looked at as an honorary "brother" of sorts. So, and having said that, Kapernick can kiss my ass and needs to spend more than two weeks in someplace other than the US. This whole disrespect and disregard for the American Symbol is tired and disgusting. When I watch Usain Bolt pay homage to our National Anthem and this wannabe Joe Montana sits there, Fuck Him and all that think it doesn't make a difference. It (the flag) means too much around the world to those that live in repression and squalor and shit in the street. So before you blow it off as some publicity stunt, there is someone, somewhere watching saying, "see, that whole democracy thing doesn't work as well as you think it does" and will do everything thay can to shit on the USA as opposed to in the street! You stomp, burn, rip the flag in front of me and I'm kicking your ass, or die trying and that is not some beer muscles, or cyber gym workout talking here. You get paid millions per year to play a game (marginally at that) you stand the hell up, or sit permanently! Which in Kapernick's case is not too long down the road!

Jesus Christ.

In comment 13088587 B in ALB said:

Quote:

taking millions of American dollars though.

Why should he? Protesting is just about the most American thing a person can do.

But I have the right to say he doesn't know jack shit about US history. The armies of one of those flags suffered close to 600,000 casualties (killed, wounded, missing) , the majority of them suffered after the Emancipation Proclamation, fighting against slavery.

About Kap and his girlfriend for months now that might put his actions into a little more contex. This reminds me of another high profile athlete who created a stir when he refused to stand for the anthem. I wonder if a name change is coming soon .

In comment 13088458 bigblue1124 said:

Quote:

As Eric said as well in current times the men and women’s lives that have been lost fighting for that flag he obviously has zero knowledge or respect for.

+1

In comment 13088593 LAXin said:

Quote:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color." I always ask someone who holds such a view of white-oppression: then why do Asians in this country -- not just a selective few at the top, but on average as an ethnic group of tens of millions -- somehow achieve higher education, lower crime rate, and higher income than even the whites, who are supposedly doing all these terrible oppressions from the top? Are Asian people not color enough to be oppressed by the whites? Or did the white ruling class just somehow forgot to oppress this particular ethnic group? Or is the whites' oppression against the Asians so damn sophisticated and well-hidden that it already goes beyond and deeper than the trivial and mundane stuffs like education, income, and incarceration rate?

I think it's a result of the socioeconomic divide than race. I'm sure if you separated the violence stats based on personal income rather than simply race the data would look much worse. All these shootings recently (some horrible, some blown out of proportion) haven't exactly been occurring with rich folk.

There may very well be certain underlying causes that link educational/economic opportunity with race, which I believe is the root cause of the problem. But I don't think the police are race-targeting civilians on the streets. There's a bigger issue that's causing this and pointing fingers at the police/government for being racist is just childish.

"Our man in Charleston" sounds fascinating, just downloaded it onto my Kindle (via Amazon)..Thanks for the heads up

Plaguing this country right now, was this really necessary? How about conveying a message of change in a positive context rather than sit there like a spoiled, entitled, and ungrateful child?

He's just trying to get more sittin on the bench reps because he's certainly playing himself there

In comment 13088460 Tark10 said:

Quote:

This is what happens if a person spends too much time in California. There are school districts passing out "Pledge Of Allegiance" waivers. If they don't want to stand and recite the pledge, the waiver allows them to sit and stare at their I-phones. Just another sad indication of a country in the decline. Kap just may be suffering from "tattoo poisoning". Here in Houston, the school district has major budget problems. The Board Of Directors decided to close some schools and lay off teachers to save some money. Meanwhile, they have also decided to spend 1.4 million to rename 8 schools because the current names are affiliated with the confederacy. This is what happens when liberals are placed in decision making positions. Its all about political correctness with common sense thrown out the window.

Hahahahahah what a fucking load of horseshit. You should be ashamed for writing this pointless, partisan, bullshit drivel

In comment 13088541 DennyInDenville said:

Quote:

Europe $119-$220 If anyone feels oppressed here in the USA, please leave. Pretty simple

Not really. People want to make their homes better places for everyone. Pretty simple.

Though re: Kap, I get where you're coming from. But that statement does not apply to everyone.

A fucking piece of shit!

what Kap did was stupid, but I think some of the reactions to it are also kinda crazy.

Kap is a dumbass, this doesn't really surprise me

When you say Kaepernick “needs to spend more than two weeks in someplace other than the US”, would you suggest like New Zealand or Canada or Norway? Would "roughing it" in those countries engender the requisite level of appreciation you believe America deserves?

A 6’4” American male would no doubt have a rooooough time in South Korea (and by that I mean his penis would be so rough from the endless sex he's having with fawning young women).

Really… you can embody and proclaim an appreciation for America minus the over the top rah-rah’ing, complete with the inclusion of trivializing the virtues of the rest of the advanced world. It’s just embarrassing.

.

He doesn't make the first cut. Don't need garbage like that on my team. I'd rather him be a drug addict, wife beater etc than to dishonor the American Flag!

In comment 13088631 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

He doesn't make the first cut. Don't need garbage like that on my team. I'd rather him be a drug addict, wife beater etc than to dishonor the American Flag!

Wife beater? Really?

but this Country has a lot of warts as does any of our families. We are not perfect, we have a lot of wrongs to right, but when I see that Flag I'm reminded that there isn't anywhere else I'd rather be. I know I have the right to disagree with my government and say so. Maybe KP should understand that Flag is the very symbol of why he has the right to his opinion and be a bit more respectful to what it is actually a symbol of! It's not a symbol of oppression, that is very far from the truth! for if it was he'd be in a gulag right now!

at least temporarily.
Hope he invested his US dollars well, because after this year he'll be working for scale, if at all.

their freedoms, get all worked up over someone sitting during the national anthem. Burning the flag - sitting during the national anthem - are two of the most patriotic things I can think of. What other country in the world would allow that? Would honor that?

I can't think of a group more revolting than the KKK. Yet I would protest vigorously for the right of the KKK to march publicly down every street in America. I'd do that because that is what makes my country great. It is only when we silence the rights of others to protest that we better start worrying about our democracy. Because your voice is likely to be the next one silenced.

I'm not so certain some of you would have respected the Young Muhammad Ali in this day and age.

Quote:

Probably just the beginning. Tark10 : 9:51 am : link : reply This is what happens if a person spends too much time in California. There are school districts passing out "Pledge Of Allegiance" waivers. If they don't want to stand and recite the pledge, the waiver allows them to sit and stare at their I-phones. Just another sad indication of a country in the decline. Kap just may be suffering from "tattoo poisoning". Here in Houston, the school district has major budget problems. The Board Of Directors decided to close some schools and lay off teachers to save some money. Meanwhile, they have also decided to spend 1.4 million to rename 8 schools because the current names are affiliated with the confederacy. This is what happens when liberals are placed in decision making positions. Its all about political correctness with common sense thrown out the window.

Shitting in my own mouth would be more enjoyable than reading more of your posts.

Quote:

Some of you people take Marine One : 12:06 pm : link : reply a hell of a lot for granted. Sure, it's a symbol one that has stood the test of time and had the balls to stand up against tyrrany and shit around the world, THAT SYMBOL! The problem with some of you younger guys is you were "educated" by a gathering of leftists who have no regard for country or American exceptionalism. You bitch and complain about the smallest of inconveniences and then disrespect the country that affords you to live with your parents well into adulthood. Try that in El Salvador, Burma, MEXICO! Realize what you have here, you know, that whole Carpe Diem thing? On the topic of the black cause, I played sports scholastically and collegiately with blacks, served with blacks in the Marine Corps and never had one racial incident! In fact, I was looked at as an honorary "brother" of sorts. So, and having said that, Kapernick can kiss my ass and needs to spend more than two weeks in someplace other than the US. This whole disrespect and disregard for the American Symbol is tired and disgusting. When I watch Usain Bolt pay homage to our National Anthem and this wannabe Joe Montana sits there, Fuck Him and all that think it doesn't make a difference. It (the flag) means too much around the world to those that live in repression and squalor and shit in the street. So before you blow it off as some publicity stunt, there is someone, somewhere watching saying, "see, that whole democracy thing doesn't work as well as you think it does" and will do everything thay can to shit on the USA as opposed to in the street! You stomp, burn, rip the flag in front of me and I'm kicking your ass, or die trying and that is not some beer muscles, or cyber gym workout talking here. You get paid millions per year to play a game (marginally at that) you stand the hell up, or sit permanently! Which in Kapernick's case is not too long down the road!

I fought for your right to protest. RESPECT ME. Also if you protest in front of me I'm going to try and physically harm you. -Marine One

Quote:

If I'm the owner after that statement Carl in CT : 1:00 pm : link : reply He doesn't make the first cut. Don't need garbage like that on my team. I'd rather him be a drug addict, wife beater etc than to dishonor the American Flag!

Much rather have women get a beating than see someone unhappy with how things are in this country? Patriotism is fucking weird, man.

Actually he is actually in the Cam Newton category for me .
If anyone is using Roids or whatever it has to be him .
Can Remember him early in his career when he took over
for Alex Smith he is such a friggen jack ass and I hope
he gets decleated every time he touches the FootBall .
It Takes some kind of an asshole not to show common
curtisy during National Anthem .
No matter what his or anyones beliefs are he is a classless
asswipe ..

In comment 13088631 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

He doesn't make the first cut. Don't need garbage like that on my team. I'd rather him be a drug addict, wife beater etc than to dishonor the American Flag!

Obviously you're not smart enough to be in that type of position in the first place.

that doesn't bring harm to others and that's what makes this country great. There isn't going to be a knock on his door tonight or unmarked cars following him in the streets. If he wants to sit while others stand. Fine with me.

As a veteran it bothers me what game day patriots make a big stink out of the national anthem not by singing along or reflecting on what makes this nation what it is but hassling others to get up, take off your hat, take out your earbuds, put down your phone, etc. Hearing the national anthem is important to me. It may not be to you. Fine. I think playing God Bless America at ballgames is a crock of shit. You may not feel the same way. Fine with me.

But NFL is a money game and the money masters aren't going to like this. And it always saddens me when issues like this come up and the vast majority of fans unreflectively side with the people with all the power and all of the money.

but that doesnt mean I am siding with CK.

A few points:

If I am unhappy with something in our society, I should just move to another country and live the life least resistance, rather than try to change it?

Ridiculous. Using that logic, no one should complain about anything. No push to improve anything at all. Just move to another country and shut up. What if MLK, Medgar Evers, Rosa Parks etc had done that?

If I am unhappy with something in our society but also make lots of money in that same society, I should keep my mouth shut.

It is oftentimes wealthy people that have the time, resources, security and platform to make a stand publicly. Just because he makes lots of money in the society that he is displeased with does not make him a hypocrite. It is not like he is making money off racial bias and oppression. That would be hypocritical. Making lots of money should not preclude someone from protesting and exercising their rights.

Not standing during the national anthem in protest is an affront to those who have served.

He is not protesting those who have served. He is utilizing a right that they fought and died to give him. Protesting is one of the most liberating, American things you can do.

Because people of color have proudly served this country since The Revolution and including the Civil War, he is uneducated and is disrespectful to them and their memory.

I feel comfortable saying that every minority in history has proudly fought for our country. So using that logic no one can protest using our national symbols without being deemed uneducated and disrespectful to those minorities who proudly served.

What if a Native American protested the United States stance on several land disputes? What if they refused to stand for the National Anthem? Are they uneducated because of the invaluable and proud service of the code talkers in WWII?

I think this is a pretty ineffective way for CK to go about it and I would be interested to know what he is doing behind the scenes to help this cause and ultimately
I do not think it will inspire the change he is looking for. That said, I do not think he is a bad guy for exercising his rights as an American.

.

Or not - I think the basis of his protest is more than a little silly, but if he is willing to accept the consequences of his protest in an effort to effect positive change, reasonable disagreement over where this country is and how it should proceed is fine.

Too bad he's sucked in recent years.

In comment 13088645 baadbill said:

Quote:

their freedoms, get all worked up over someone sitting during the national anthem. Burning the flag - sitting during the national anthem - are two of the most patriotic things I can think of. What other country in the world would allow that? Would honor that? I can't think of a group more revolting than the KKK. Yet I would protest vigorously for the right of the KKK to march publicly down every street in America. I'd do that because that is what makes my country great. It is only when we silence the rights of others to protest that we better start worrying about our democracy. Because your voice is likely to be the next one silenced.

While I get your point, I would hope you can find just a few more patriotic things to do than burn a flag or sit your ass during the anthem...

It's just that he has the absolute right to be one.

to an issue where you think the US is in the wrong. Say for example Guantanamo.

But this is just so poorly thought out and articulated it's hard to take as anything more than juvenile insolence.

In comment 13088677 Bill L said:

Quote:

It's just that he has the absolute right to be one.

I don't think hypocrite means what you think it means.

I've seen people suggest Kaep leave "their" country, while this country was stolen from natives. 🤔

In comment 13088673 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

In comment 13088645 baadbill said: Quote: their freedoms, get all worked up over someone sitting during the national anthem. Burning the flag - sitting during the national anthem - are two of the most patriotic things I can think of. What other country in the world would allow that? Would honor that? I can't think of a group more revolting than the KKK. Yet I would protest vigorously for the right of the KKK to march publicly down every street in America. I'd do that because that is what makes my country great. It is only when we silence the rights of others to protest that we better start worrying about our democracy. Because your voice is likely to be the next one silenced. While I get your point, I would hope you can find just a few more patriotic things to do than burn a flag or sit your ass during the anthem...

Actually, I honestly can't think of anything more patriotic than to hand him the flag and a match to burn it - while at the same time disputing whatever it is he's protesting.

It's pretty ironic that the ones who get most worked up about "respecting" America and her symbols are really not much different than the fanatic fringe who kill people for making fun of the Koran. Freedom and tolerance are what make this country great. It's when either one is threatened that I'll begin to worry.

Do I agree with his right to protest in this manner? Yes, he has the 1st amendment right

In comment 13088653 David in LA said:

Quote:

I'm not so certain some of you would have respected the Young Muhammad Ali in this day and age.

100% supported Ali back in the day..One of the very few sport's idols in my life

In comment 13088687 Capt. Don said:

Quote:

In comment 13088677 Bill L said: Quote: It's just that he has the absolute right to be one. I don't think hypocrite means what you think it means.

hes not protesting an issue; it's a rejection of the country through its symbols. So yeah, glomming its benefits is hypocritical.

But he's still free to be one. He's sheltered and nurtured by the country, and still allowed to behave as he wishes.

'Blackish'.

will be over and done too quick as well.

How about Kap grabs a gun and stands a post somewhere. I would think that would be more patriotic Bill...

.

Because it is very hard to watch him try to play QB. Defensive coordinators in the NFL are evil oppressors that have denied CK the chance to succeed because of his color. Whatever color that is.

He is no brighter off the field than he is on. He needs to visit a library.

In comment 13088699 MOOPS said:

Quote:

'Blackish'.

That's an awful joke, come on.

.

if he didnt take the 17 million dollars that this country pays him a year out of protest.

In comment 13088713 moespree said:

Quote:

.

Leftist agrees with leftist, film at 11

In comment 13088702 Jimmy Googs said:

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will be over and done too quick as well. How about Kap grabs a gun and stands a post somewhere. I would think that would be more patriotic Bill...

Jimmy, I usually agree with virtually all of your posts. But I have to disagree regarding my views on what differentiates America from the majority of the rest of the world. The right to hold views - and take positions - others might find abhorrent. It is what separates us from police states. In my mind, it is the single most important feature that makes America the great country she is.

In comment 13088710 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13088699 MOOPS said: Quote: 'Blackish'. That's an awful joke, come on.

Why do you think I'm joking?
You don't watch the show?

In comment 13088710 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13088699 MOOPS said: Quote: 'Blackish'. That's an awful joke, come on.

I think he's being serious. Do you watch the show, they sometimes take current event social issues and incorporate them into the comedy, very well done in some cases.

If you disrespect the flag that so many brave men and women defended and died for than you and I will have a confrontation.

In comment 13088645 baadbill said:

Quote:

their freedoms, get all worked up over someone sitting during the national anthem. Burning the flag - sitting during the national anthem - are two of the most patriotic things I can think of. What other country in the world would allow that? Would honor that? I can't think of a group more revolting than the KKK. Yet I would protest vigorously for the right of the KKK to march publicly down every street in America. I'd do that because that is what makes my country great. It is only when we silence the rights of others to protest that we better start worrying about our democracy. Because your voice is likely to be the next one silenced.

+1

I have absolutely no problem with what KP did

I just read our posts again. I probably wasn't being clear. I don't consider the act of burning the flag (or sitting during the national anthem) patriotic. What is patriotic is those of us who will stand up for Kaepernick' right to do so (i.e. the act of handing him the flag to burn). HE isn't being patriotic - the person disagreeing with him but at the same time handing him the flag to burn is the true patriot.

In comment 13088724 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 13088713 moespree said: Quote: . Leftist agrees with leftist, film at 11

Did I say I agreed with him? I said I see no problem with protesting. And I don't. He's allowed to do it. Whether you or I or anyone else likes it or not. I don't appreciate you putting what you think I am or am not on me.

In comment 13088735 GeorgeFox said:

Quote:

If you disrespect the flag that so many brave men and women defended and died for than you and I will have a confrontation.

If you think people died for a flag rather than the rights and freedoms that it represents, that is called irony.

In comment 13088726 baadbill said:

Quote:

In comment 13088702 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: will be over and done too quick as well. How about Kap grabs a gun and stands a post somewhere. I would think that would be more patriotic Bill... Jimmy, I usually agree with virtually all of your posts. But I have to disagree regarding my views on what differentiates America from the majority of the rest of the world. The right to hold views - and take positions - others might find abhorrent. It is what separates us from police states. In my mind, it is the single most important feature that makes America the great country she is.

I agree that our right to protest is a incredibly important right. No debate from me as you and are aligned on that.

I just find it easy to find the "fake in the crowd" who prefers simple grandstanding gestures to be a protest versus a the guy who is willing to meaningfully stand by what he believes.

Appreciate your candor...

In comment 13088733 MOOPS said:

Quote:

In comment 13088710 David in LA said: Quote: In comment 13088699 MOOPS said: Quote: 'Blackish'. That's an awful joke, come on. Why do you think I'm joking? You don't watch the show?

I've seen a few episodes, but I don't watch network tv much anymore. Just seemed to be a bit tongue and cheekish of a comment.

In comment 13088724 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 13088713 moespree said: Quote: . Leftist agrees with leftist, film at 11

Political correctness hypocrisy. Not breaking.

of Rights as much as anyone. But during the Vietnam War, I was a protester against it, and standing up for the National Anthem felt to me like expressing acceptance for that war. So I might well have not stood up for the Anthem at that time. Not addressing Kap specifically, but you can make a statement about a particular issue without rejecting the values the Constitution espouses.

but I view the National Anthem and the flag not as support for the police or the government, but for the soldiers who have sacrificed their lives to provide the freedoms and liberty we all enjoy today.

I view disrespecting the flag and/or the National Anthem as not protesting actions or policies the government or police or even the justice system, but disrespectful to the men and women in uniform.

If that's your goal (colloquially your), I don't get it.

I just find it so conflicted the NFL allows protests like "Hands up Don't Shoot" for the Rams, Beyonce at the SB, they don't require you to stand for the National Anthem which is a protest I guess in Kaepernick's case against the police, but you want to put a decal on your helmet with the arm and arm logo for the citizens and police in Dallas - they reject it.

Sounds like they limit free speech when it's not consistent with their goals.

From a retired Colonel.....semper fi brother!!

In comment 13088781 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

but I view the National Anthem and the flag not as support for the police or the government, but for the soldiers who have sacrificed their lives to provide the freedoms and liberty we all enjoy today. I view disrespecting the flag and/or the National Anthem as not protesting actions or policies the government or police or even the justice system, but disrespectful to the men and women in uniform. If that's your goal (colloquially your), I don't get it. I just find it so conflicted the NFL allows protests like "Hands up Don't Shoot" for the Rams, Beyonce at the SB, they don't require you to stand for the National Anthem which is a protest I guess in Kaepernick's case against the police, but you want to put a decal on your helmet with the arm and arm logo for the citizens and police in Dallas - they reject it. Sounds like they limit free speech when it's not consistent with their goals.

The only one who's required to do anything in your examples is the person being forced to stand up.

To me, the national anthem is supposed to represent what this country stands for. It's spirit. That is not only the military.

In comment 13088802 jeff57 said:

Quote:

In comment 13088781 pjcas18 said: Quote: but I view the National Anthem and the flag not as support for the police or the government, but for the soldiers who have sacrificed their lives to provide the freedoms and liberty we all enjoy today. I view disrespecting the flag and/or the National Anthem as not protesting actions or policies the government or police or even the justice system, but disrespectful to the men and women in uniform. If that's your goal (colloquially your), I don't get it. I just find it so conflicted the NFL allows protests like "Hands up Don't Shoot" for the Rams, Beyonce at the SB, they don't require you to stand for the National Anthem which is a protest I guess in Kaepernick's case against the police, but you want to put a decal on your helmet with the arm and arm logo for the citizens and police in Dallas - they reject it. Sounds like they limit free speech when it's not consistent with their goals. The only one who's required to do anything in your examples is the person being forced to stand up. To me, the national anthem is supposed to represent what this country stands for. It's spirit. That is not only the military.

Required yes. No one is required to show respect.

Did you ever go to a sporting event "Please stand up and remove your hats for the singing of the National Anthem"

Almost everyone does. but when a person on a pulpit doesn't it's meaningful. to me.

but I do respect his choice, I just find his reasoning suspect. And yes, hypocritical.

but it is his right to do it.

What I don't want to ever hear from him is a complaint one day how he is losing out on something because of backlash to his actions. He believes in it enough to do it then own it and every negative that comes a along with it. When he misses out on some endorsement or gets cut as soon as his skills hint at diminishing don't cry about it.

In comment 13088781 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

but I view the National Anthem and the flag not as support for the police or the government, but for the soldiers who have sacrificed their lives to provide the freedoms and liberty we all enjoy today. I view disrespecting the flag and/or the National Anthem as not protesting actions or policies the government or police or even the justice system, but disrespectful to the men and women in uniform.

I don't associate the American flag or national anthem with soldiers unless it is the Revolutionary War. But, if I did associate those symbols with soldiers dying to protect those freedoms, then my protecting those freedoms is the greatest way I can think of to honor those who died for those very freedoms.

And my point is that I can't think of a greater way to illustrate the freedom of America than for American's to stand up for the rights of protesters to protest (and especially to stand up for protesters who espouse something we may not agree with). It isn't the protester who is necessarily being patriotic.

A group of Nazis marching down main street in a small Illinois town isn't something most Americans would agree with or favor. Certainly the Nazis aren't being patriotic. But get a few hundred Americans to protest for the rights of the Nazis to march - or for them to burn the flag - all the while hating Nazis - now THAT is being patriotic - and would be a great honor to those who sacrificed their lives to protect those rights.

In comment 13088830 steve in ky said:

Quote:

but it is his right to do it. What I don't want to ever hear from him is a complaint one day how he is losing out on something because of backlash to his actions. He believes in it enough to do it then own it and every negative that comes a along with it. When he misses out on some endorsement or gets cut as soon as his skills hint at diminishing don't cry about it.

he already said if he loses his NFL career or endorsements over it then he knows he was right.

I think NFL endorsements should be more about on-field and marketability so he should lose endorsements as a backup QB, but he's set it up now to make it about race.

In comment 13088631 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

He doesn't make the first cut. Don't need garbage like that on my team. I'd rather him be a drug addict, wife beater etc than to dishonor the American Flag!

Im going to periodically repost this gem, until something even dumber comes up on this thread.

In comment 13088846 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13088830 steve in ky said: Quote: but it is his right to do it. What I don't want to ever hear from him is a complaint one day how he is losing out on something because of backlash to his actions. He believes in it enough to do it then own it and every negative that comes a along with it. When he misses out on some endorsement or gets cut as soon as his skills hint at diminishing don't cry about it. he already said if he loses his NFL career or endorsements over it then he knows he was right. I think NFL endorsements should be more about on-field and marketability so he should lose endorsements as a backup QB, but he's set it up now to make it about race.

You think endorsements should be more about on-field and marketability, but marketability also encompasses off the field. Seems like this topic has you really fired up.

In comment 13088837 baadbill said:

Quote:

In comment 13088781 pjcas18 said: Quote: but I view the National Anthem and the flag not as support for the police or the government, but for the soldiers who have sacrificed their lives to provide the freedoms and liberty we all enjoy today. I view disrespecting the flag and/or the National Anthem as not protesting actions or policies the government or police or even the justice system, but disrespectful to the men and women in uniform. I don't associate the American flag or national anthem with soldiers unless it is the Revolutionary War. But, if I did associate those symbols with soldiers dying to protect those freedoms, then my protecting those freedoms is the greatest way I can think of to honor those who died for those very freedoms. And my point is that I can't think of a greater way to illustrate the freedom of America than for American's to stand up for the rights of protesters to protest (and especially to stand up for protesters who espouse something we may not agree with). It isn't the protester who is necessarily being patriotic. A group of Nazis marching down main street in a small Illinois town isn't something most Americans would agree with or favor. Certainly the Nazis aren't being patriotic. But get a few hundred Americans to protest for the rights of the Nazis to march - or for them to burn the flag - all the while hating Nazis - now THAT is being patriotic - and would be a great honor to those who sacrificed their lives to protect those rights.

I agree with you almost completely other than the flag, but that's just my personal opinion.

but there's no better example of this than Westboro Baptist Church or other hate groups protesting military funerals and then bikers or veterans blocking out the protests of the Westboro Baptist Church so families can bury their deceased in privacy.

First Amendment in action.

In comment 13088854 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13088846 pjcas18 said: Quote: In comment 13088830 steve in ky said: Quote: but it is his right to do it. What I don't want to ever hear from him is a complaint one day how he is losing out on something because of backlash to his actions. He believes in it enough to do it then own it and every negative that comes a along with it. When he misses out on some endorsement or gets cut as soon as his skills hint at diminishing don't cry about it. he already said if he loses his NFL career or endorsements over it then he knows he was right. I think NFL endorsements should be more about on-field and marketability so he should lose endorsements as a backup QB, but he's set it up now to make it about race. You think endorsements should be more about on-field and marketability, but marketability also encompasses off the field. Seems like this topic has you really fired up.

Not fire up, but bored. Any time you make yourself controversial, you impact your marketability. Not sure how that's contrary to what I said.

if you're good enough on-field (like Peyton Manning or LT) your off-field issues don't impact your marketability as much.

In comment 13088513 Dave on the UWS said:

Quote:

(However misguided) by showing disrespect. He's entitled to his viewpoint and also entitled to express it, but not by being disrespectful. He's just being s dumbass. As Erix said the degree to which we don't acknowledge fully what African Americans have gone through in our history and what their contribution was during the Civil War for example is sad. If that is he point he's trying to make it needs to be done much better.

Tell that to Tark10.

irrelevant whether I agree with his stance on the issue he's chosen. Tired of the age of vanilla athletes who put remaining noncontroversial to sponsors ahead of speaking to their ideals. Time will tell on Kap. Ali was crucified by enormous segments of population when he refused induction, and that certainly changed. Good to see a young man speak his mind in spite of the likely consequences.

art of protesting by sitting on the bench.

He can't even beat out Gabbert for the starting gig...

.

In comment 13088735 GeorgeFox said:

Quote:

If you disrespect the flag that so many brave men and women defended and died for than you and I will have a confrontation.

Bless you

Don't die for a piece of cloth, they die for their comrades, families and the principles of a nation, including the right to protest and speak freely.

The idea that it is somehow laudable to threaten violence on those that choose to utilize those freedoms is disturbing, and Paulie's hot take as a veteran of the Great Polish War of '80 is unsurprising.

In comment 13088846 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13088830 steve in ky said: Quote: but it is his right to do it. What I don't want to ever hear from him is a complaint one day how he is losing out on something because of backlash to his actions. He believes in it enough to do it then own it and every negative that comes a along with it. When he misses out on some endorsement or gets cut as soon as his skills hint at diminishing don't cry about it. he already said if he loses his NFL career or endorsements over it then he knows he was right. I think NFL endorsements should be more about on-field and marketability so he should lose endorsements as a backup QB, but he's set it up now to make it about race.

which doesn't make much sense, since pulling endorsements would be as much a statement as was his. He can protest but no one said he could do it with impunity. Not sure how he could begrudge someone for acting as he did.

In comment 13088950 Rob in CT/NYC said:

Quote:

Don't die for a piece of cloth, they die for their comrades, families and the principles of a nation, including the right to protest and speak freely. The idea that it is somehow laudable to threaten violence on those that choose to utilize those freedoms is disturbing, and Paulie's hot take as a veteran of the Great Polish War of '80 is unsurprising.

Agree with the second part completely, but many of those people who die for exactly what you say in the first part consider the piece of cloth symbolic of those things.

I have a rich military history in my family, in fact I'm the first generation to NOT serve so it's certainly possible I feel a little guilt or over-sensitivity because of that, but they all take disrespecting the flag personally and as an affront to their service.

The WWII veterans in my family definitely different than my father who is a Vietnam veteran and didn't receive a heroes welcome like other wars, but it's still the same sentiment among most of my family which had a big influence on my values.

I wouldn't suggest it's not someone's right to protest in any legal manner, including burning the flag, but how people legally react to that protest is also their right.

That many people conflate their service or their love of country with the treatment of the flag - symbols have power, which is why we argue over the display of a swastika or the stars and bars.

Practically speaking, however, no one's service is diminished by what happens to a piece of cloth...the anger comes from the perception of the beliefs of the person behind the action.

That's the most effective action, IMO.

.

Freedom isn't free. It costs $1.05!

I dunno about your lives but I belong to and love and strive for better for lots of flawed things with flawed pasts. Myself, my family, friends, companies and the USA.

But that's something I learned the hard way over time belonging to and striving for better with flawed things. Myself prime amongst them.

Like yet, when I was younger I was much more sure protest was standing up.

It's good to stand up. Feels righteous. Judges others in the process...always feels good for awhile. It's a lot tougher to consider how to do the right thing and be quietly effective at moving the needle forward.


Imho

Like Yat

In comment 13088977 Rob in CT/NYC said:

Quote:

That many people conflate their service or their love of country with the treatment of the flag - symbols have power, which is why we argue over the display of a swastika or the stars and bars. Practically speaking, however, no one's service is diminished by what happens to a piece of cloth...the anger comes from the perception of the beliefs of the person behind the action.

No argument from me with that. I do the last part of your last sentence is human nature though and explains a lot of behavior.

if you want respect, give respect.

In comment 13088994 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13088977 Rob in CT/NYC said: Quote: That many people conflate their service or their love of country with the treatment of the flag - symbols have power, which is why we argue over the display of a swastika or the stars and bars. Practically speaking, however, no one's service is diminished by what happens to a piece of cloth...the anger comes from the perception of the beliefs of the person behind the action. No argument from me with that. I do the last part of your last sentence is human nature though and explains a lot of behavior.

I do *think* the last part...

In comment 13088696 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

100% supported Ali back in the day..One of the very few sport's idols in my life

I don't know what universe you were living in back then, Doc, but a hell of a lot of people didn't support what he did. I can't find any polling, but this article shows that even in the sports world many didn't support him. He certainly became an icon over time, but back in '66 he was a lightning rod.
Link - ( New Window )

Sometimes it's very hard to know how to make an impact, or what the ramifications of your actions will be. "Black Lives Matter" has had the impact of, imo, turning a lot of folks against the protesters, and to the justification of (to say the least) problematic decisions by some in the law enforcement community. And our protests in the '60s led to the generation gap and Nixon's election; certainly not what us protesters were hoping for.

Sadly, it takes a great deal of wisdom to figure out the short and long term consequences of some behaviors...and even well thought out actions can be propagandized against effectively in such a divided citizenry.

In comment 13088697 Bill L said:

Quote:

hes not protesting an issue; it's a rejection of the country through its symbols. So yeah, glomming its benefits is hypocritical. But he's still free to be one. He's sheltered and nurtured by the country, and still allowed to behave as he wishes.

You seem to be assuming that there is one way of being an American and that if someone does not conform to it they should leave the country or if they stay they are a hypocrite.

Kaepernick is every bit as American as you are and has a right to assert his vision of what HIS country should be.

Thoreau refused to pay his taxes because he did not support a war. This has been taught in most high schools for years as an exemplary act of freedom of thought and individual liberty. What Kaep did is mild compared to what Thoreau did.

In comment 13089035 Bill in UT said:

Quote:

In comment 13088696 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: 100% supported Ali back in the day..One of the very few sport's idols in my life I don't know what universe you were living in back then, Doc, but a hell of a lot of people didn't support what he did. I can't find any polling, but this article shows that even in the sports world many didn't support him. He certainly became an icon over time, but back in '66 he was a lightning rod. Link - ( New Window )

And a helluva lot did support him. I'd say it was split. College kids and anti-war protesters sided with him, the Vets and political establishment didn't..Cosell did a lot for him..

In comment 13088448 Andy Sky said:

Quote:

The 49ers referenced the 'freedom of religion" in their statement may be a clue about where this is coming from.

Um, what?

In comment 13089074 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 13088448 Andy Sky said: Quote: The 49ers referenced the 'freedom of religion" in their statement may be a clue about where this is coming from. Um, what?

He's black so it's possible he's a Muslim which means he hates America

I served.

And one of the things I served for was to defend the right for CK to do exactly what he did.

Forced allegiance is no allegiance. It's fascism.

enforcement personnel lead you to conclude that you can's support the flag and the government? Does that include the President?

but he's quite a bit of a self promoter for a punter. He's a bro version of Kluwe.

Hey Yat. I hope you and your family are well

I think a large percentage disagree with KP on this.

Anyway, my question is how does this end? In week 4 does he stand and then announce to the press that enough progress has been made? What is the progress he seeks? Is he blaming solely the police and not anyone on the other side? What exactly is he trying to get to here?

professionals sports league should not be allowed to involve anything related to the game (including pre-game activities) as a forum for their political or social views including any form of protest. That's my humble opinion.

In comment 13089151 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

I think a large percentage disagree with KP on this. Anyway, my question is how does this end? In week 4 does he stand and then announce to the press that enough progress has been made? What is the progress he seeks? Is he blaming solely the police and not anyone on the other side? What exactly is he trying to get to here?

What are you talking about? Enough progress regarding what? The article quoted said: "It’s unclear why Kaepernick sat." I don't think BBI is agreeing or disagreeing with KP's position seeing that nobody knows wtf he is protesting (and maybe he was just avoiding vomiting or something).

I think most people on this thread were merely stating that whatever his reason for sitting, it was his right to do so. America hasn't quite yet reached the point where you have to stand the way Germans did during Nazi Germany. I would hope most of us sing the anthem because we want to - not because it's some mandatory ritual.

In comment 13089101 Wuphat said:

Quote:

one of the things I served for was to defend the right for CK to do exactly what he did. Forced allegiance is no allegiance. It's fascism.

A lost point in this. Thank you.

In comment 13089165 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 13089101 Wuphat said: Quote: one of the things I served for was to defend the right for CK to do exactly what he did. Forced allegiance is no allegiance. It's fascism. A lost point in this. Thank you.

someone forced him to stand?

In comment 13089160 baadbill said:

Quote:

In comment 13089151 PatersonPlank said: Quote: I think a large percentage disagree with KP on this. Anyway, my question is how does this end? In week 4 does he stand and then announce to the press that enough progress has been made? What is the progress he seeks? Is he blaming solely the police and not anyone on the other side? What exactly is he trying to get to here? What are you talking about? Enough progress regarding what? The article quoted said: "It’s unclear why Kaepernick sat." I don't think BBI is agreeing or disagreeing with KP's position seeing that nobody knows wtf he is protesting (and maybe he was just avoiding vomiting or something). I think most people on this thread were merely stating that whatever his reason for sitting, it was his right to do so. America hasn't quite yet reached the point where you have to stand the way Germans did during Nazi Germany. I would hope most of us sing the anthem because we want to - not because it's some mandatory ritual.

Wow, relax. That is my question to KP. Ok he exercised his right to sit. Is this a one time sit, or an every week thing? If its more than a 1 time thing what does he hope to achieve and what is the end? These are my questions to KP when I think about this.

In comment 13089167 Bill L said:

Quote:

In comment 13089165 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 13089101 Wuphat said: Quote: one of the things I served for was to defend the right for CK to do exactly what he did. Forced allegiance is no allegiance. It's fascism. A lost point in this. Thank you. someone forced him to stand?

Obviously not, but the expectation from the masses that you stand no matter what is what he was talking about.

every professional NFL player will turn their back to the flag during the National Anthem based on whatever issues they personally have with society and politics?

In comment 13089172 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 13089167 Bill L said: Quote: In comment 13089165 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 13089101 Wuphat said: Quote: one of the things I served for was to defend the right for CK to do exactly what he did. Forced allegiance is no allegiance. It's fascism. A lost point in this. Thank you. someone forced him to stand? Obviously not, but the expectation from the masses that you stand no matter what is what he was talking about.

i don't know if expectation equates to facsism. And exceeding his right shouldn't prevent others from criticizing him or even responding by not patronizing him (e.g., if someone actually were to pull an endorsement). We're still a ways away from the kind of forced allegiance he analogizes it to be.

He's just practicing for the regular season where he'll have his a$$ firmly planted on the pine.

In comment 13089170 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

In comment 13089160 baadbill said: Quote: In comment 13089151 PatersonPlank said: Quote: I think a large percentage disagree with KP on this. Anyway, my question is how does this end? In week 4 does he stand and then announce to the press that enough progress has been made? What is the progress he seeks? Is he blaming solely the police and not anyone on the other side? What exactly is he trying to get to here? What are you talking about? Enough progress regarding what? The article quoted said: "It’s unclear why Kaepernick sat." I don't think BBI is agreeing or disagreeing with KP's position seeing that nobody knows wtf he is protesting (and maybe he was just avoiding vomiting or something). I think most people on this thread were merely stating that whatever his reason for sitting, it was his right to do so. America hasn't quite yet reached the point where you have to stand the way Germans did during Nazi Germany. I would hope most of us sing the anthem because we want to - not because it's some mandatory ritual. Wow, relax. That is my question to KP. Ok he exercised his right to sit. Is this a one time sit, or an every week thing? If its more than a 1 time thing what does he hope to achieve and what is the end? These are my questions to KP when I think about this.

I just read the other thread about Pugh and it appears KP was trying to make a point about police treatment of african american men. He's probably been effective to the extent a lot of people are talking about why he sat during the national anthem. But most of the discussion I've seen isn't about WHY he sat but rather whether sitting during the national anthem is ever appropriate (insinuating that if you don't recite the pledge of allegiance you don't deserve to be an American - any more than those who refused to salute/recite Heil Hitler didn't deserve to be Nazis).

In comment 13089179 Bill L said:

Quote:

In comment 13089172 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 13089167 Bill L said: Quote: In comment 13089165 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 13089101 Wuphat said: Quote: one of the things I served for was to defend the right for CK to do exactly what he did. Forced allegiance is no allegiance. It's fascism. A lost point in this. Thank you. someone forced him to stand? Obviously not, but the expectation from the masses that you stand no matter what is what he was talking about. i don't know if expectation equates to facsism. And exceeding his right shouldn't prevent others from criticizing him or even responding by not patronizing him (e.g., if someone actually were to pull an endorsement). We're still a ways away from the kind of forced allegiance he analogizes it to be.

If we're being fully honest, it's a telling reminder that people don't seem to recall the principles this country was founded on. America was born out of dissent and disobedience in the face of perceived injustice. It's funny to see the mob demanding that he 'fall in line', when what he's referencing is a very real problem the country faces. There's nothing wrong with it, just like there was nothing wrong with John Carlos making a political statement during the olympics. Yes, people have the right to criticise him, but why would you criticise someone who is making a statement against the strained race relations that are being put on display all over the country?

In comment 13089185 baadbill said:

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In comment 13089170 PatersonPlank said: Quote: In comment 13089160 baadbill said: Quote: In comment 13089151 PatersonPlank said: Quote: I think a large percentage disagree with KP on this. Anyway, my question is how does this end? In week 4 does he stand and then announce to the press that enough progress has been made? What is the progress he seeks? Is he blaming solely the police and not anyone on the other side? What exactly is he trying to get to here? What are you talking about? Enough progress regarding what? The article quoted said: "It’s unclear why Kaepernick sat." I don't think BBI is agreeing or disagreeing with KP's position seeing that nobody knows wtf he is protesting (and maybe he was just avoiding vomiting or something). I think most people on this thread were merely stating that whatever his reason for sitting, it was his right to do so. America hasn't quite yet reached the point where you have to stand the way Germans did during Nazi Germany. I would hope most of us sing the anthem because we want to - not because it's some mandatory ritual. Wow, relax. That is my question to KP. Ok he exercised his right to sit. Is this a one time sit, or an every week thing? If its more than a 1 time thing what does he hope to achieve and what is the end? These are my questions to KP when I think about this. I just read the other thread about Pugh and it appears KP was trying to make a point about police treatment of african american men. He's probably been effective to the extent a lot of people are talking about why he sat during the national anthem. But most of the discussion I've seen isn't about WHY he sat but rather whether sitting during the national anthem is ever appropriate (insinuating that if you don't recite the pledge of allegiance you don't deserve to be an American - any more than those who refused to salute/recite Heil Hitler didn't deserve to be Nazis).

In comment 13089188 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 13089179 Bill L said: Quote: In comment 13089172 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 13089167 Bill L said: Quote: In comment 13089165 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 13089101 Wuphat said: Quote: one of the things I served for was to defend the right for CK to do exactly what he did. Forced allegiance is no allegiance. It's fascism. A lost point in this. Thank you. someone forced him to stand? Obviously not, but the expectation from the masses that you stand no matter what is what he was talking about. i don't know if expectation equates to facsism. And exceeding his right shouldn't prevent others from criticizing him or even responding by not patronizing him (e.g., if someone actually were to pull an endorsement). We're still a ways away from the kind of forced allegiance he analogizes it to be. If we're being fully honest, it's a telling reminder that people don't seem to recall the principles this country was founded on. America was born out of dissent and disobedience in the face of perceived injustice. It's funny to see the mob demanding that he 'fall in line', when what he's referencing is a very real problem the country faces. There's nothing wrong with it, just like there was nothing wrong with John Carlos making a political statement during the olympics. Yes, people have the right to criticise him, but why would you criticise someone who is making a statement against the strained race relations that are being put on display all over the country?

not sure he's protesting strained race relations as opposed to making a statement about what he believes about police wrt race relations. Further, his mode was not a protest against a particular aspect of the country but the country itself and encompassed everything. And, you can find plenty to criticize about him and the Mexico City athletes wrt time and place etc. the right to criticize is always as inherent and, being someone else's expression, of no less worth than the expression being criticized.

I don't care if he or anyone else stands during the National Anthem. Or outs their hands on their hearts. The wearing of baseball caps irritates me but that's more ignorant douches than political statement. To each their own. But I just don't see qualitative differences between the actions and reactions.

He didn't say anything about police, he specifically cited the entire country. So, I'm not going to try to parse a meaning behind them other than what seems a pretty clear stance.

I don't believe in tying the flag to the government or the police, but plenty of people do the same thing. I think there's definitely part of the country that doesn't look at the flag with a great sense of pride because of the things that have been going on.

For me, the flag and the anthem are more about the idea and the intention of America, not a representation of the agenda of whatever political party may be making decisions at the time. For people with a different perspective, it's probably more difficult to separate the two.

In comment 13089206 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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He didn't say anything about police, he specifically cited the entire country. So, I'm not going to try to parse a meaning behind them other than what seems a pretty clear stance. I don't believe in tying the flag to the government or the police, but plenty of people do the same thing. I think there's definitely part of the country that doesn't look at the flag with a great sense of pride because of the things that have been going on. For me, the flag and the anthem are more about the idea and the intention of America, not a representation of the agenda of whatever political party may be making decisions at the time. For people with a different perspective, it's probably more difficult to separate the two.

His last sentence isn't about the police?

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"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

In comment 13089159 JPinstripes said:

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professionals sports league should not be allowed to involve anything related to the game (including pre-game activities) as a forum for their political or social views including any form of protest. That's my humble opinion.

Agreed, he is a professional and his main concern should be maximizing his ability to play and helping his team win. Anything else is a distraction and an insult to his teammates, the franchise that pays him very well, the fans and the game itself.

That said, his career is disintegrating and this is a pathetic attention grab. Remember when this guy was the next big thing? It is very hard to be a franchise QB, to carry the mail for a team year in and year out. It might be the most difficult job in sports.

The best response to these antics should be a resounding who cares. Unless you are a 'niner looking to build a good season. Then you have to care about where this guy's priorities are.

In comment 13088586 Marine One said:

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a hell of a lot for granted. Sure, it's a symbol one that has stood the test of time and had the balls to stand up against tyrrany and shit around the world, THAT SYMBOL! The problem with some of you younger guys is you were "educated" by a gathering of leftists who have no regard for country or American exceptionalism. You bitch and complain about the smallest of inconveniences and then disrespect the country that affords you to live with your parents well into adulthood. Try that in El Salvador, Burma, MEXICO! Realize what you have here, you know, that whole Carpe Diem thing? On the topic of the black cause, I played sports scholastically and collegiately with blacks, served with blacks in the Marine Corps and never had one racial incident! In fact, I was looked at as an honorary "brother" of sorts. So, and having said that, Kapernick can kiss my ass and needs to spend more than two weeks in someplace other than the US. This whole disrespect and disregard for the American Symbol is tired and disgusting. When I watch Usain Bolt pay homage to our National Anthem and this wannabe Joe Montana sits there, Fuck Him and all that think it doesn't make a difference. It (the flag) means too much around the world to those that live in repression and squalor and shit in the street. So before you blow it off as some publicity stunt, there is someone, somewhere watching saying, "see, that whole democracy thing doesn't work as well as you think it does" and will do everything thay can to shit on the USA as opposed to in the street! You stomp, burn, rip the flag in front of me and I'm kicking your ass, or die trying and that is not some beer muscles, or cyber gym workout talking here. You get paid millions per year to play a game (marginally at that) you stand the hell up, or sit permanently! Which in Kapernick's case is not too long down the road!

From one Marine to another (including George Fox below, who happens to be a former GySgt), I'm going to be honest with you and mean no disrespect. Responses like this and others on here don't paint you or others in a good light. The ideals of the Corps and the military writ large aren't about bashing and flying off the handles for perceived disrespect of a piece of cloth or a song. It is about serving the nation and its citizens to allow them to make such personal political choices that are guaranteed by the Constitution without your own personal honor being so offended that you make statements that border on being embarrassing. Of course you can be offended, but posts like this are a bit embarrassing.

I don't agree with what Kap did or what his stance is, but in the grand scheme of things we deal with on a daily basis, it's so irrelevant that I'm not sure it's even all that newsworthy, let alone something for me to get all bent out of shape about.

In comment 13089179 Bill L said:

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In comment 13089172 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 13089167 Bill L said: Quote: In comment 13089165 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 13089101 Wuphat said: Quote: one of the things I served for was to defend the right for CK to do exactly what he did. Forced allegiance is no allegiance. It's fascism. A lost point in this. Thank you. someone forced him to stand? Obviously not, but the expectation from the masses that you stand no matter what is what he was talking about. i don't know if expectation equates to facsism. And exceeding his right shouldn't prevent others from criticizing him or even responding by not patronizing him (e.g., if someone actually were to pull an endorsement). We're still a ways away from the kind of forced allegiance he analogizes it to be.

Wuphat' point wasn't about Kap specifically as much as a response to Marine One and his post regarding threatened violence against those disparaging the symbols that he holds dear. You're getting close to radar land sometimes with some of your responses.

He's been an appeal to authority poster for years.

In comment 13089226 David in LA said:

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He's been an appeal to authority poster for years.

im not exactly sure what that means.

And Ronnie, respect your opinion on that. And I'm not even sure you're wrong. I will say that it's not my intention to be contrary. But the conversation was CK and I felt that the quoted statement was hyperbolic. But to the extent that I continued to participate or extend the discussion, your point is taken.

In comment 13088460 Tark10 said:

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This is what happens if a person spends too much time in California. There are school districts passing out "Pledge Of Allegiance" waivers. If they don't want to stand and recite the pledge, the waiver allows them to sit and stare at their I-phones. Just another sad indication of a country in the decline. Kap just may be suffering from "tattoo poisoning". Here in Houston, the school district has major budget problems. The Board Of Directors decided to close some schools and lay off teachers to save some money. Meanwhile, they have also decided to spend 1.4 million to rename 8 schools because the current names are affiliated with the confederacy. This is what happens when liberals are placed in decision making positions. Its all about political correctness with common sense thrown out the window.

It's a miracle you're capable of thinking up so many bad ideas while sitting on your head.

So let me get this straight - California breeds stupid people because it's a liberal state? Some of the brightest and most talented people on Earth have either been born in California or later made it their home. Including Ronald Reagan, whom I presume you're a fan of. Why? Because it's a beautiful state. Most of the amenities and devices that make our lives easier every day were developed here - specifically in the Bay area.

What precisely have you contributed to society?

is the silly attention given to athletes and entertainers. Why should anyone GAF what any of them think or say?

In comment 13089437 Bill in UT said:

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is the silly attention given to athletes and entertainers. Why should anyone GAF what any of them think or say?

+1

I'm definitely a prime example of the liberal agenda of that state.

Come around me some time.

In comment 13088593 LAXin said:

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"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color." I always ask someone who holds such a view of white-oppression: then why do Asians in this country -- not just a selective few at the top, but on average as an ethnic group of tens of millions -- somehow achieve higher education, lower crime rate, and higher income than even the whites, who are supposedly doing all these terrible oppressions from the top? Are Asian people not color enough to be oppressed by the whites? Or did the white ruling class just somehow forgot to oppress this particular ethnic group? Or is the whites' oppression against the Asians so damn sophisticated and well-hidden that it already goes beyond and deeper than the trivial and mundane stuffs like education, income, and incarceration rate?

As a fellow Asian, I'll tell you this to help you out...you need to learn some history of the genesis of the oppression experienced by African Americans since the founding of this nation. While Asians have also been oppressed in certain ways in the past, it is not comparable to the point that you are trying to make.

GiantFilthy's 1:40 pm post reminds me why he is my favorite.

did CK's action (or inaction) have its desired effect?

Are we talking about black people and people of color being oppressed? Bodies in the street with people getting paid leave?

or are we talking about how spoiled and wrong CK was?

or a mix of both, and it was a step in the right direction?

In comment 13088565 Metnut said:

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real guts to do what he did knowing the heat that he was inevitably going to take afterward.

Real guts. That is rich.

In comment 13090259 yankees78 said:

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GiantFilthy's 1:40 pm post reminds me why he is my favorite.

Agreed, he won the thread

Satire. Maybe it's the air in California.

In comment 13090423 Carl in CT said:

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Satire. Maybe it's the air in California.

Well, in Filthy's defense, he's not from California, so there is some other reason why he must have missed your sarcasm...although in this thread it's not as readily apparent that it was satire or sarcasm that you posted.

In comment 13088658 Bluesbreaker said:

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Actually he is actually in the Cam Newton category for me . If anyone is using Roids or whatever it has to be him . Can Remember him early in his career when he took over for Alex Smith he is such a friggen jack ass and I hope he gets decleated every time he touches the FootBall . It Takes some kind of an asshole not to show common curtisy during National Anthem . No matter what his or anyones beliefs are he is a classless asswipe ..

Yes, yes, yes.

killed in this war easily surpasses all the other wars we ever fought. Many here I'm sure are well read on the Civil War and its era and realize that back in high school we learned a great deal of myths about that time.

Lincoln, for instance, we believed freed all the slaves when he signed the Emancipation Proclamation. That document freed the slaves in the Confederate states, but not in the border slavery states of Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky and Tennessee, who had remained in the Union.

Lincoln, although a staunch abolitionist, never made a secret of the fact that the purpose of the war was to restore the Union, not to free the slaves. Lincoln needed the political support of the border states for his 1864 re-election campaign. He believed, correctly as it turned out, that his re-election was necessary to end the war, and most importantly, to manage the peaceful re-union of the states.

The Confederate states had many legitimate grievances against the North. If the entrance into the Union was completely voluntary on the part of each colony, why did the Southern states not have the right to voluntarily withdraw from the Union? If the hallowed Declaration of Independence provided that

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

How did this exclude the states of the Confederacy from instituting a new government? And towards the end of the Civil War, the North began a war of terror against the property and the people of the South that was unparalleled in the last several centuries of Western warfare. Particularly in the Napoleonic Wars both sides had been careful to meet each other out in the open, away from cities and damage to non-combatant civilians.

Best known as a part of Sherman's march through Georgia, which was considered in Europe to be barbarism, the Confederacy has a right to remember these acts.

All in all, the Civil War ended over 150 years ago. All involved are long dead. If someone feels the need to go back in time and criticize those who were in power at the time, just repay him with the attention which he deserves, which is none.

In comment 13088586 Marine One said:

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a hell of a lot for granted. Sure, it's a symbol one that has stood the test of time and had the balls to stand up against tyrrany and shit around the world, THAT SYMBOL! The problem with some of you younger guys is you were "educated" by a gathering of leftists who have no regard for country or American exceptionalism. You bitch and complain about the smallest of inconveniences and then disrespect the country that affords you to live with your parents well into adulthood. Try that in El Salvador, Burma, MEXICO! Realize what you have here, you know, that whole Carpe Diem thing? On the topic of the black cause, I played sports scholastically and collegiately with blacks, served with blacks in the Marine Corps and never had one racial incident! In fact, I was looked at as an honorary "brother" of sorts. So, and having said that, Kapernick can kiss my ass and needs to spend more than two weeks in someplace other than the US. This whole disrespect and disregard for the American Symbol is tired and disgusting. When I watch Usain Bolt pay homage to our National Anthem and this wannabe Joe Montana sits there, Fuck Him and all that think it doesn't make a difference. It (the flag) means too much around the world to those that live in repression and squalor and shit in the street. So before you blow it off as some publicity stunt, there is someone, somewhere watching saying, "see, that whole democracy thing doesn't work as well as you think it does" and will do everything thay can to shit on the USA as opposed to in the street! You stomp, burn, rip the flag in front of me and I'm kicking your ass, or die trying and that is not some beer muscles, or cyber gym workout talking here. You get paid millions per year to play a game (marginally at that) you stand the hell up, or sit permanently! Which in Kapernick's case is not too long down the road!

Thank you. Nothing more to say.

In comment 13090519 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:

Quote:

killed in this war easily surpasses all the other wars we ever fought. Many here I'm sure are well read on the Civil War and its era and realize that back in high school we learned a great deal of myths about that time. Lincoln, for instance, we believed freed all the slaves when he signed the Emancipation Proclamation. That document freed the slaves in the Confederate states, but not in the border slavery states of Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky and Tennessee, who had remained in the Union. Lincoln, although a staunch abolitionist, never made a secret of the fact that the purpose of the war was to restore the Union, not to free the slaves. Lincoln needed the political support of the border states for his 1864 re-election campaign. He believed, correctly as it turned out, that his re-election was necessary to end the war, and most importantly, to manage the peaceful re-union of the states. The Confederate states had many legitimate grievances against the North. If the entrance into the Union was completely voluntary on the part of each colony, why did the Southern states not have the right to voluntarily withdraw from the Union? If the hallowed Declaration of Independence provided that "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." How did this exclude the states of the Confederacy from instituting a new government? And towards the end of the Civil War, the North began a war of terror against the property and the people of the South that was unparalleled in the last several centuries of Western warfare. Particularly in the Napoleonic Wars both sides had been careful to meet each other out in the open, away from cities and damage to non-combatant civilians. Best known as a part of Sherman's march through Georgia, which was considered in Europe to be barbarism, the Confederacy has a right to remember these acts. All in all, the Civil War ended over 150 years ago. All involved are long dead. If someone feels the need to go back in time and criticize those who were in power at the time, just repay him with the attention which he deserves, which is none.

Umm no!

Lincoln was not a staunch abolitionist. William Lloyd Garrison, Wendell Philips, John Brown were. Lincoln was a free spoiler who opposed the extension of slavery. He became an opponent of slavery and determined to end it only as the war dragged on and the sacrifices endured by both hires and blacks made it clear that things could not go back to the status quo.

Second, the Emancipation Proclomation was an act of political expediency and a war time measure born out of necessity. As Union troops drove deeper and deeper into Tennesee, Lousisiana, Mississippi and Alabama in 1862 many slaves were freed by default and there was uncertainty about what to do with them. Army commanders like General Benjamin Butler declared them contraband and freed them. Thus the question was thrust on Lincoln's plate. How should they deal with this new problem. Lincoln couldn't end slavery outright. In the Dred Scott decision the Supreme Court in a 7-2 ruling essentially ruled the federal government didn't have that power. Lincoln knew that if he tried to go that route Chief Justice Taney would rule it unconstitutional. So, Lincoln decided to free the slaves only in those areas in an act of rebellion to the US and sell it as a temporary wartime measure. This is why it did not apply to the border states . That is why when Taney dies in 1864, Lincoln replaces him with a staunch abolitionist Salmon Chase as Chief Justice. He also had two other Supreme Court nominations. Because he knew that the EP was largely a war time measure that is why he pressed so hard for the 13th amendment before the war ended, so there would be no doubt that the peculiar institution would die.

Concerns about alienating the border states was an important consideration behind the EP but constitutional concerns were the main driver.

c

In comment 13090258 RC02XX said:

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As a fellow Asian, I'll tell you this to help you out...you need to learn some history of the genesis of the oppression experienced by African Americans since the founding of this nation. While Asians have also been oppressed in certain ways in the past, it is not comparable to the point that you are trying to make.

Don't patronize me, Ronnie. I know you are Korean, and you're a Marine, and your twin brother is also military. You've broadcasted your background repeatedly, and often voluntarily, over the years. I can't possibly miss it unless I no longer come to Eric's website which I first joyfully visited in the summer of 1996.

Oh yeah, speaking of Asians and the stereotype/oppression against Asians, which you so condescendingly lectured me about, ... A year ago there was a thread here about the weirdest question one got asked in his/her life. And yours was that you were once repeatedly asked where you're from, or what nationality you are, after you'd already firmly replied "California" or " American"; and also because your kids possess a lot of their white mother's features ("blonde hair blue eyes" -- again, your revelation unprompted from a different thread), you were once asked by a stranger about the kids' background in a public place, as if there was doubt in the guy's mind that you could be the father.

You know why I remember this vividly? Because of your final summary that followed: you said you "felt weird" about these inquires, that you were puzzled. Now, forgive my language, WTF were you puzzled and felt weird about??? This was oppression/stereotype right to your face: that despite you spilled blood for this country, that despite you having a spouse who is ethnic majority, your self-identification of "I'm American" or "I'm from CA" were utterly rejected by them. Did you really not see this unmitigated stereotype/oppression? Your feeling should have been anger, not "felt weird": your action should have been confronting the guy right there, not expressing your bewilderment at an Internet forum years later, and now you also lecture me about the need to have the sensitivity to understand the different degrees of oppression suffered by different people of different shades of skin color?

Now back to the original point: as a whole, Asian immigrants arrived at this nation later than others, and as poor as those already at the bottom here. Yet, they generally got out of poverty, got out of welfare, got into college or beyond and entered upper middle class by the 2nd generation, doing even better than the whites as a whole, while being incarcerated far less while getting there. What does this tell me? It tells me that while oppression/discrimination/stereotype surely exists, it's not nearly strong enough and universal enough a social issue to be a deciding factor for any one, and thus it does not deserve neay as much attentions and resources from the society as people like Kapernick so frequently request. He does not see that, then in my eyes he himself is the bigot, the racist.

Let me clarify something to you. Being asked where I'm from or someone looking at my children and wondering what is their make up is not oppression. I find it weird rather than be upset about it is because I actually understand the definition of oppression, and what I have experienced isn't oppression. And I'm certain that whatever you've experienced in your life will never be comparable with the oppression experienced by African Americans past and present. No matter how hard you want to make it seem like it's the same as the oppression experienced by the African American community, your attempt to basically state, "hey, the Asians did it so why can't they" is utter bullshit and weaker than hell.

The history of oppression of those who were brought here as slaves as opposed to those who came here for better opportunities for the most part are so antithesis of each other that only similarity is that both groups aren't white. To compare the two in such an even manner is almost comical.

The funny thing is, you may know about my history, and while I don't know who you are, I do know that you have a penchant for playing the poor Asian boy schtick in your posts, which I've counter in previous threads. Seems like you're playing the same tune again, my good chap.

Lincoln, for instance, we believed freed all the slaves when he signed the Emancipation Proclamation. That document freed the slaves in the Confederate states, but not in the border slavery states of Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky and Tennessee, who had remained in the Union.
I've spent this last year on about eight books on Lincoln.
You've got it wrong....all wrong. and you really ought not to spout off about something you know nothing about
The Emancipation was based on a war time act that gave the US the right to confiscate the PROPERTY of a belligerent.
Because the border states fought on the side of the union they could not be classified as a "belligerent".
Lincoln knew the emancipation was flawed and indeed supported the Dred Scott Decision insomuch that it was based on the fact that slaves were Property.
Knowing that he fought like hell to get the thirteenth amendment passed, that abolished slavery once for all.
As the war ended, Lincoln's last speech cxalled for extending sufferage to the ex-slaves. It's that speech that inflamed John Wilkes Booth and cost Lincoln his life.

Lincoln, for instance, we believed freed all the slaves when he signed the Emancipation Proclamation. That document freed the slaves in the Confederate states, but not in the border slavery states of Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky and Tennessee, who had remained in the Union.
I've spent this last year on about eight books on Lincoln.
You've got it wrong....all wrong. and you really ought not to spout off about something you know nothing about
The Emancipation was based on a war time act that gave the US the right to confiscate the PROPERTY of a belligerent.
Because the border states fought on the side of the union they could not be classified as a "belligerent".
Lincoln knew the emancipation was flawed and indeed supported the Dred Scott Decision insomuch that it was based on the fact that slaves were Property.
Knowing that he fought like hell to get the thirteenth amendment passed, that abolished slavery once for all.
As the war ended, Lincoln's last speech cxalled for extending sufferage to the ex-slaves. It's that speech that inflamed John Wilkes Booth and cost Lincoln his life.

In comment 13089151 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

I think a large percentage disagree with KP on this. Anyway, my question is how does this end? In week 4 does he stand and then announce to the press that enough progress has been made? What is the progress he seeks? Is he blaming solely the police and not anyone on the other side? What exactly is he trying to get to here?

this is really funny bc to me, this board very obviously skews a little older and at least center right (w a mix of views if course)

In comment 13090655 grizz299 said:

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Lincoln, for instance, we believed freed all the slaves when he signed the Emancipation Proclamation. That document freed the slaves in the Confederate states, but not in the border slavery states of Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky and Tennessee, who had remained in the Union. I've spent this last year on about eight books on Lincoln. You've got it wrong....all wrong. and you really ought not to spout off about something you know nothing about The Emancipation was based on a war time act that gave the US the right to confiscate the PROPERTY of a belligerent. Because the border states fought on the side of the union they could not be classified as a "belligerent". Lincoln knew the emancipation was flawed and indeed supported the Dred Scott Decision insomuch that it was based on the fact that slaves were Property. Knowing that he fought like hell to get the thirteenth amendment passed, that abolished slavery once for all. As the war ended, Lincoln's last speech cxalled for extending sufferage to the ex-slaves. It's that speech that inflamed John Wilkes Booth and cost Lincoln his life.

I was not aware of this and am glad I now understand. Thanks for this post

can bullshit like this be rationalized.
I'm almost speechless....

In comment 13090616 RC02XX said:

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Let me clarify something to you. Being asked where I'm from or someone looking at my children and wondering what is their make up is not oppression. I find it weird rather than be upset about it is because I actually understand the definition of oppression, and what I have experienced isn't oppression. And I'm certain that whatever you've experienced in your life will never be comparable with the oppression experienced by African Americans past and present. No matter how hard you want to make it seem like it's the same as the oppression experienced by the African American community, your attempt to basically state, "hey, the Asians did it so why can't they" is utter bullshit and weaker than hell. The history of oppression of those who were brought here as slaves as opposed to those who came here for better opportunities for the most part are so antithesis of each other that only similarity is that both groups aren't white. To compare the two in such an even manner is almost comical. The funny thing is, you may know about my history, and while I don't know who you are, I do know that you have a penchant for playing the poor Asian boy schtick in your posts, which I've counter in previous threads. Seems like you're playing the same tune again, my good chap.

I will admit I skipped a large portion of this thread from when I was on BBI earlier to when I just got home an hour ago or so, but the opposing argument seems to strangely gloss over the obvious difference: one group of people (asians/south asians which includes my grandparents) chose to emigrate here, the other were brought here under the social contract of slavery, freed from them, then had their newfound freedom actively counteracted via social/political/legal forces.

To Mohamed Abdul Suckyquarterback

In comment 13090519 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:

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killed in this war easily surpasses all the other wars we ever fought. Many here I'm sure are well read on the Civil War and its era and realize that back in high school we learned a great deal of myths about that time. Lincoln, for instance, we believed freed all the slaves when he signed the Emancipation Proclamation. That document freed the slaves in the Confederate states, but not in the border slavery states of Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky and Tennessee, who had remained in the Union. Lincoln, although a staunch abolitionist, never made a secret of the fact that the purpose of the war was to restore the Union, not to free the slaves. Lincoln needed the political support of the border states for his 1864 re-election campaign. He believed, correctly as it turned out, that his re-election was necessary to end the war, and most importantly, to manage the peaceful re-union of the states. The Confederate states had many legitimate grievances against the North. If the entrance into the Union was completely voluntary on the part of each colony, why did the Southern states not have the right to voluntarily withdraw from the Union? If the hallowed Declaration of Independence provided that "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." How did this exclude the states of the Confederacy from instituting a new government? And towards the end of the Civil War, the North began a war of terror against the property and the people of the South that was unparalleled in the last several centuries of Western warfare. Particularly in the Napoleonic Wars both sides had been careful to meet each other out in the open, away from cities and damage to non-combatant civilians. Best known as a part of Sherman's march through Georgia, which was considered in Europe to be barbarism, the Confederacy has a right to remember these acts. All in all, the Civil War ended over 150 years ago. All involved are long dead. If someone feels the need to go back in time and criticize those who were in power at the time, just repay him with the attention which he deserves, which is none.

You have some statements here that are not correct. Be careful when read civil war history books that you do not take the author's point of view home with you all the time...

In comment 13090659 LeonofKiev said:

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can bullshit like this be rationalized. I'm almost speechless....

Almost? What else can we do to make th art a reality?

will he have a problem standing for O Canada for their oppression of Native Americans?

In comment 13088586 Marine One said:

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a hell of a lot for granted... You stomp, burn, rip the flag in front of me and I'm kicking your ass, or die trying and that is not some beer muscles, or cyber gym workout talking here.

Wow. Forced patriotism. Salute the flag or die! Thanks for defending the principles of freedom Marine One.

"this country sucks....be right back after I count my millions"

In comment 13090761 baadbill said:

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In comment 13088586 Marine One said: Quote: a hell of a lot for granted... You stomp, burn, rip the flag in front of me and I'm kicking your ass, or die trying and that is not some beer muscles, or cyber gym workout talking here. Wow. Forced patriotism. Salute the flag or die! Thanks for defending the principles of freedom Marine One.

Baad, hard to disagree with most of what you've posted here, but this is my quick take (opinion):

During the Viet Nam years, I was against the war, protested where I could and was, in sum, totally disgustd by our involvement..I was/am disgusted with how the returning Vets were treated regardless of my stance..

Still, any burning of the flag, the symbol of which has been discussed very cogently on here, was disrespectful, bullshit and repugnant to every fiber of my being. But even then, as now, I ALWAYS recognized any American's right to burn the flag or any other American symbol, regardless of how much I loathe the action..

Themselves to somehow act like authoritative defenders of the ideals of patriotism. What they did is great and admirable, but society shouldn't just differ to them when it comes to the meaning of being patriotic. Everyone has equal say in what is and isn't patriotic as long as they understand and adhere to the basic tenets of the Constitution and at least respect others' right to act accordingly.

The worst thing we can do is to enforce a specific notion or image of patriotism with threat of violence. You can be annoyed by and even pity others for not expressing similar level of reverence for various symbols of this nation and patriotism that you may feel, but to go beyond that and lose your shit over it seems just wrong.

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I'm personally not a big fan of service members taking it upon RC02XX : 10:01 am : link : reply Themselves to somehow act like authoritative defenders of the ideals of patriotism. What they did is great and admirable, but society shouldn't just differ to them when it comes to the meaning of being patriotic. Everyone has equal say in what is and isn't patriotic as long as they understand and adhere to the basic tenets of the Constitution and at least respect others' right to act accordingly. The worst thing we can do is to enforce a specific notion or image of patriotism with threat of violence. You can be annoyed by and even pity others for not expressing similar level of reverence for various symbols of this nation and patriotism that you may feel, but to go beyond that and lose your shit over it seems just wrong.

I don't always agree with Ronnie, but that has more to do with my love of shirts. However, this post here is how I'd like to imagine my feelings would be if I had been a service member myself.

has been the best and most correct poster throughout this thread.

In comment 13090803 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 13090761 baadbill said: Quote: In comment 13088586 Marine One said: Quote: a hell of a lot for granted... You stomp, burn, rip the flag in front of me and I'm kicking your ass, or die trying and that is not some beer muscles, or cyber gym workout talking here. Wow. Forced patriotism. Salute the flag or die! Thanks for defending the principles of freedom Marine One. Baad, hard to disagree with most of what you've posted here, but this is my quick take (opinion): During the Viet Nam years, I was against the war, protested where I could and was, in sum, totally disgustd by our involvement..I was/am disgusted with how the returning Vets were treated regardless of my stance.. Still, any burning of the flag, the symbol of which has been discussed very cogently on here, was disrespectful, bullshit and repugnant to every fiber of my being. But even then, as now, I ALWAYS recognized any American's right to burn the flag or any other American symbol, regardless of how much I loathe the action..

Agree 100% BB56. I'm not saying burning the flag is itself an honorable thing to do. Protecting the rights of those that burn the flag is the honorable thing - the democratic thing - the essence of MY freedom is the act of someone else burning MY flag.

In comment 13090833 Big Al said:

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has been the best and most correct poster throughout this thread.

Thanks Al. But I think there have been many of us basically saying the same thing.

In comment 13090826 GiantFilthy said:

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Quote: I'm personally not a big fan of service members taking it upon RC02XX : 10:01 am : link : reply Themselves to somehow act like authoritative defenders of the ideals of patriotism. What they did is great and admirable, but society shouldn't just differ to them when it comes to the meaning of being patriotic. Everyone has equal say in what is and isn't patriotic as long as they understand and adhere to the basic tenets of the Constitution and at least respect others' right to act accordingly. The worst thing we can do is to enforce a specific notion or image of patriotism with threat of violence. You can be annoyed by and even pity others for not expressing similar level of reverence for various symbols of this nation and patriotism that you may feel, but to go beyond that and lose your shit over it seems just wrong. I don't always agree with Ronnie, but that has more to do with my love of shirts. However, this post here is how I'd like to imagine my feelings would be if I had been a service member myself.

Ronnie hates shirts? He seems like a shirt lover.

I'd certainly stand for the anthem, but that's my view. He's entitled to his, no matter how we may disagree with him. It's one of the great things this country was founded on, period.

What I scratch my head about is when did Kaepernick even develop the inkling that he is or should be a voice for the masses? Did anyone say, "man, what would Kap do? I need his opinion here.". He's not exactly the world changing catalyst one would expect people to rally 'round. So is he simply trying to use the very little currency of celebrity he has to make himself seem more indispensable to a dwindling personal fanbase, or is he burning the last goodwill the league may afford him as a declining football player?

In comment 13090968 pganut said:

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I'd certainly stand for the anthem, but that's my view. He's entitled to his, no matter how we may disagree with him. It's one of the great things this country was founded on, period. What I scratch my head about is when did Kaepernick even develop the inkling that he is or should be a voice for the masses? Did anyone say, "man, what would Kap do? I need his opinion here.". He's not exactly the world changing catalyst one would expect people to rally 'round. So is he simply trying to use the very little currency of celebrity he has to make himself seem more indispensable to a dwindling personal fanbase, or is he burning the last goodwill the league may afford him as a declining football player?

And yet, this is a nation that oft times is rapt with anything that comes out of a Kardashian mouth other than a co*k..

In comment 13090974 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 13090968 pganut said: Quote: I'd certainly stand for the anthem, but that's my view. He's entitled to his, no matter how we may disagree with him. It's one of the great things this country was founded on, period. What I scratch my head about is when did Kaepernick even develop the inkling that he is or should be a voice for the masses? Did anyone say, "man, what would Kap do? I need his opinion here.". He's not exactly the world changing catalyst one would expect people to rally 'round. So is he simply trying to use the very little currency of celebrity he has to make himself seem more indispensable to a dwindling personal fanbase, or is he burning the last goodwill the league may afford him as a declining football player? And yet, this is a nation that oft times is rapt with anything that comes out of a Kardashian mouth other than a co*k..

What did the Kardashians get on the wonderlic ?

In comment 13091017 Big Al said:

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In comment 13090974 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: In comment 13090968 pganut said: Quote: I'd certainly stand for the anthem, but that's my view. He's entitled to his, no matter how we may disagree with him. It's one of the great things this country was founded on, period. What I scratch my head about is when did Kaepernick even develop the inkling that he is or should be a voice for the masses? Did anyone say, "man, what would Kap do? I need his opinion here.". He's not exactly the world changing catalyst one would expect people to rally 'round. So is he simply trying to use the very little currency of celebrity he has to make himself seem more indispensable to a dwindling personal fanbase, or is he burning the last goodwill the league may afford him as a declining football player? And yet, this is a nation that oft times is rapt with anything that comes out of a Kardashian mouth other than a co*k.. What did the Kardashians get on the wonderlic ?

You mean wonderlick?

In comment 13091020 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 13091017 Big Al said: Quote: In comment 13090974 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: In comment 13090968 pganut said: Quote: I'd certainly stand for the anthem, but that's my view. He's entitled to his, no matter how we may disagree with him. It's one of the great things this country was founded on, period. What I scratch my head about is when did Kaepernick even develop the inkling that he is or should be a voice for the masses? Did anyone say, "man, what would Kap do? I need his opinion here.". He's not exactly the world changing catalyst one would expect people to rally 'round. So is he simply trying to use the very little currency of celebrity he has to make himself seem more indispensable to a dwindling personal fanbase, or is he burning the last goodwill the league may afford him as a declining football player? And yet, this is a nation that oft times is rapt with anything that comes out of a Kardashian mouth other than a co*k.. What did the Kardashians get on the wonderlic ? You mean wonderlick?

Ha Ha. Dr. Blue made a dirty funny.

historic human injustice like Spartacus or only injustice for American for blacks? Why linit it

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Pretty deliberate sideline for the Giants during the anthem tonight. All players and staff standing.

Go make your money playing in a country you like. Just like your coach, the league has figured you out anyway.

Obviously he has EVERY right to do/say what he did. So does everyone who criticizes him.

Everyone has choices. His choice is to continue living in a country he hates.

probably will vote for the candidate that insulted a war hero in the senate?

Kap just wants to bring attention to his conversion to Islam(at the request of his finance').
Anti-America, whitey hatin', no pork eatin' Islam.

In comment 13090800 feelflows said:

Quote:

"this country sucks....be right back after I count my millions"

Exactly! if I hated a place so much, and I had the resources to relocate to a more open and accepting place, why stay here and be miserable? the only logical reason is his personal cowardice.

In comment 13091282 sober297 said:

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Kap just wants to bring attention to his conversion to Islam(at the request of his finance'). Anti-America, whitey hatin', no pork eatin' Islam.

And this was necessary because?

In comment 13091277 David in LA said:

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probably will vote for the candidate that insulted a war hero in the senate?

I think this is a shitty move by Kaep and I'm not voting for either shitty candidate. There's many ways to stand up for something you believe in but this is cowardly.

I'm not voting for either shitty candidate either. I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy in logic of certain political zealots when speaking on this matter.

You can't talk about respecting the flag when some people are definitely voting for the candidate that disrespected a highly decorated officer, and a prisoner of war.

.

Which gives lie to the notion of Kaepernick as some kind of deep thinker - the clown was wearing a Fidel Castro shirt during his interview. Clearly, this is a man acutely affected by oppression and dedicated to fighting it in all its forms!

The amount of anger spewed in these posts feeds my soul.

Yes, yes...let the hate flow through you!

In comment 13091340 Greg from LI said:

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Which gives lie to the notion of Kaepernick as some kind of deep thinker - the clown was wearing a Fidel Castro shirt during his interview. Clearly, this is a man acutely affected by oppression and dedicated to fighting it in all its forms!

Hey! Fidel was a freedom fighter, duh!

In all seriousness though. Too many people are giving Kaepernick way too much credit at this point regarding his political stance and as a result going way out in defense of their notion of patriotism. He's an athlete who did something many of us don't agree with. Whoopty fucking doo. He's got the right to do no matter how shallow his understanding is of the issues. But the reaction is just as lame with all of those coming around to now get into the tired old "you can leave if you hate this country" or "how dare you disrespect those, who have fought to defend the flag" BS.

It really is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

But it's a trite, childish act that should be ignored. He doesn't deserve any praise for his supposed bravery - hell, the public outcry in the Bay Area would be louder if he had denigrated the hammer and sickle. He should be able to do whatever he wants, but I don't know why anyone would do him the favor of paying attention to his Sociology 102-level opinions.

"For doing the very thing this country allows you to do" really dont make any sense. He is exercising his right to show disrespect to a nation that allows him to protest and make 19 million a year? Huh? Maybe if he sat out the year to protest police brutality, or to speak against those holding up signs that say "pigs under a blanket" or "fry like bacon" or perhaps organize community events that bring blacks and whites together to maybe bridge the gap a little bit.

His action was the epitome of ignorance and his statement was childish and stupid. I hope he loses his job and is relegated to obscurity as a back up until he goes away for good the fucking loser.

Kaepernick isn't the brightest crayon in the box, even for a pro athlete.

In comment 13091344 RC02XX said:

Quote:

In comment 13091340 Greg from LI said: Quote: Which gives lie to the notion of Kaepernick as some kind of deep thinker - the clown was wearing a Fidel Castro shirt during his interview. Clearly, this is a man acutely affected by oppression and dedicated to fighting it in all its forms! Hey! Fidel was a freedom fighter, duh! In all seriousness though. Too many people are giving Kaepernick way too much credit at this point regarding his political stance and as a result going way out in defense of their notion of patriotism. He's an athlete who did something many of us don't agree with. Whoopty fucking doo. He's got the right to do no matter how shallow his understanding is of the issues. But the reaction is just as lame with all of those coming around to now get into the tired old "you can leave if you hate this country" or "how dare you disrespect those, who have fought to defend the flag" BS. It really is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

But if he doesnt like the way the way things are going in this country, leaving is really the only form of protest. If he leaves, the government loses is out on his income tax and taxes on any purchases hes made.

His move was about as disingenuous a gesture as there is. And yes, he SHOULD leave because Im going to guess that 90+ % of the people in this country are proud of it and would not do what he did if it afforded him the privilege of being a multimillionaire for two years of good work.

while lettering in 3 sports, and has a Bible verse tattooed on his right arm.

Still, I wish he'd get cut so that nobody'd pay any attention to what he has to say.

While I don't think you have to personally experience something in order to protest against it, and I have no ways of knowing if he was discriminated against or not, but he was raised by white parents, after being abandoned by his African American father. I'm sure the awkwardness of being raised in a white family with his skin was distressing, but there are so many things from his upbringing and particular background he could choose to speak out about, but he chose this.

What kind of oppression did he get aside from curious stares? He could've chosen to serve his race/community much better by speaking out against African American children born to out of wedlock parents. Instead, he decided to do this. I guess this topic is more controversial and more noteworthy.

Well, I hope he's enjoying the attention he's getting now. I can't wait to hear him complain that he got cut because society doesn't like black quarterbacks.

What I find stupid about stunts like Kapernick's and those who burn flags is that they're SOOOOO easy to do. It costs nothing, requires no effort and once they're done NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

Kap, how about taking some of your money and subsidize a couple of inner city kids to good educations? That's changing things. There's a millionaire in Orlando who's been doing just that -- his name is Harris Rosen. Haven't heard of him, have you Kap? That's because he's DOING something quietly and effectively. And there's George Weiss who, ten years ago, promised 69 second graders that if they finished high school, he'd pay their college tuition. Forty six have done it, many on their way to good careers or the military. Kap, have you heard of this guy? Of course not. He just does things.

I am so EFFIN' tired of celebrities and guilt ridden white liberals opening their fat mouths about a social issue and then go back to their TV's, doing NOTHING to back up their bullshit.

Vent over.

In comment 13091356 Greg from LI said:

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But it's a trite, childish act that should be ignored. He doesn't deserve any praise for his supposed bravery - hell, the public outcry in the Bay Area would be louder if he had denigrated the hammer and sickle. He should be able to do whatever he wants, but I don't know why anyone would do him the favor of paying attention to his Sociology 102-level opinions.

I agree...it's lame, but that doesn't mean that he should apologize or leave the country or be threatens physically because of it.

In comment 13091369 chopperhatch said:

Quote:

In comment 13091344 RC02XX said: Quote: In comment 13091340 Greg from LI said: Quote: Which gives lie to the notion of Kaepernick as some kind of deep thinker - the clown was wearing a Fidel Castro shirt during his interview. Clearly, this is a man acutely affected by oppression and dedicated to fighting it in all its forms! Hey! Fidel was a freedom fighter, duh! In all seriousness though. Too many people are giving Kaepernick way too much credit at this point regarding his political stance and as a result going way out in defense of their notion of patriotism. He's an athlete who did something many of us don't agree with. Whoopty fucking doo. He's got the right to do no matter how shallow his understanding is of the issues. But the reaction is just as lame with all of those coming around to now get into the tired old "you can leave if you hate this country" or "how dare you disrespect those, who have fought to defend the flag" BS. It really is making a mountain out of a mole hill. But if he doesnt like the way the way things are going in this country, leaving is really the only form of protest. If he leaves, the government loses is out on his income tax and taxes on any purchases hes made. His move was about as disingenuous a gesture as there is. And yes, he SHOULD leave because Im going to guess that 90+ % of the people in this country are proud of it and would not do what he did if it afforded him the privilege of being a multimillionaire for two years of good work.

Disingenuous or not, what many of us are stating isn't that we praise his actions or motives. However, we are stating that his actions should not garner such embarrassing level of hate espoused by some on this thread as well as outside of BBI. People's reactions are just lame as this action by Kaepernick, but as he has every right to do so, I guess so do everyone have in telling him to leave or that they'll beat his ass. They're both embarrassing, nonetheless.

In comment 13090659 LeonofKiev said:

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can bullshit like this be rationalized. I'm almost speechless....

If only you could complete the process.

In comment 13091282 sober297 said:

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Kap just wants to bring attention to his conversion to Islam(at the request of his finance'). Anti-America, whitey hatin', no pork eatin' Islam.

So he's doing it to get laid?

I can dig that.

He even got benched during the national anthem.

In comment 13091376 Montreal Man said:

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... I am so EFFIN' tired of celebrities and guilt ridden white liberals opening their fat mouths about a social issue and then go back to their TV's, doing NOTHING to back up their bullshit.

I'm curious. Who are the guilt ridden white liberals? And I suppose confederate flag waiving conservatives are all ok because God knows they are all "action" people?

The nice thing about democracy is that political speech isn't burdened with any requirement to do anything to be entitled to have a voice. Political free speech is what separates this country from the rest of the world. People who want to restrict free speech are bigger threats to this country than Kaepernick ever will be.

killing it here

does with his money.

Nothing.

In comment 13091500 Mr. Bungle said:

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does with his money. Nothing.

I was about to ask if MM took the time to research any of CK's off field endeavors. Not claiming that I know myself, but it just seems like an off the cuff comment.

In comment 13091460 baadbill said:

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In comment 13091376 Montreal Man said: Quote: ... I am so EFFIN' tired of celebrities and guilt ridden white liberals opening their fat mouths about a social issue and then go back to their TV's, doing NOTHING to back up their bullshit. I'm curious. Who are the guilt ridden white liberals? And I suppose confederate flag waiving conservatives are all ok because God knows they are all "action" people? The nice thing about democracy is that political speech isn't burdened with any requirement to do anything to be entitled to have a voice. Political free speech is what separates this country from the rest of the world. People who want to restrict free speech are bigger threats to this country than Kaepernick ever will be.

Lol, WUT? There are plenty of free countries that have celebrities who
dont pull meaningless shit like this for attention. They talk about it and raise awareness but don't pull twitter-feeding horseshit maneuvers like this to get attention.


Who are the Confederate flag waiving conservatives?

In comment 13091572 David in LA said:

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In comment 13091500 Mr. Bungle said: Quote: does with his money. Nothing. I was about to ask if MM took the time to research any of CK's off field endeavors. Not claiming that I know myself, but it just seems like an off the cuff comment.

So far as I know he hosts a golf tournament (played in by celebrities and whose donations are 100% tax deductible) that raised 900k to Heart Disease research. Still 18.1 million that didnt go into improving,inner city schools, youth programs outside of schools, inner city athletic facilities to keep them off the streets...those are just a couple things he could have spent ten times what he raised for heart disease, made much more of a difference and not looked like a douche.

He's an ignorant, ungrateful douche.

In comment 13091663 David in LA said:

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You want me to sing Dixie? ;-)

come off as so personally insulted by him choosing to sit down. His employer seems to be ok with it.

"Well he made X so he should give 80% of that away."

C'mon, that's nonsense.

If you understood the country you live in, you'd understand the issue isn't about Kaepernick. He may be a douche. He made have abhorrent views. The issue is - if we get to shut him up - then we get to shut you up too.

In comment 13091671 David in LA said:

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come off as so personally insulted by him choosing to sit down. His employer seems to be ok with it.

There's frankly nothing wrong with what he did. It's baffling to see the outrage at someone making use of their rights as a citizen. And yeah, you have the right to criticise him for what he's doing, but why are we criticising someone for making himself heard against a very real problem?

In comment 13091375 Jim in Hoboken said:

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while lettering in 3 sports, and has a Bible verse tattooed on his right arm. Still, I wish he'd get cut so that nobody'd pay any attention to what he has to say. While I don't think you have to personally experience something in order to protest against it, and I have no ways of knowing if he was discriminated against or not, but he was raised by white parents, after being abandoned by his African American father. I'm sure the awkwardness of being raised in a white family with his skin was distressing, but there are so many things from his upbringing and particular background he could choose to speak out about, but he chose this. What kind of oppression did he get aside from curious stares? He could've chosen to serve his race/community much better by speaking out against African American children born to out of wedlock parents. Instead, he decided to do this. I guess this topic is more controversial and more noteworthy. Well, I hope he's enjoying the attention he's getting now. I can't wait to hear him complain that he got cut because society doesn't like black quarterbacks.

Never knew he was abandoned by his biological parents and raised by another family. Interesting.

In comment 13091696 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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"Well he made X so he should give 80% of that away." C'mon, that's nonsense.

what's kind of funny is that I know more than a couple people who would agree that's nonsense and then in the same conversation say "Well, he made X so the govt should take 80% of that away".

However, in my personal opinion, I disagree with him (which is my right also). If he wants to do something about the specific issue he mentioned then get involved and try. To me though, the national anthem thing says "All America is bad", not I have an issue with police violence in the colored community. America is a great country that has given him an opportunity to be a huge success (which he took). My other point here is I still don't know what he wants. Is he of the mindset that its all the cops fault? Is he going to stand next week, so this was a one week thing? What improvements does he think he has to see to stand up (which may not happen)? Etc.

problems with his methods, but based on his blanket condemnations, it is certainly in poor taste. He deserves to be soundly criticized in the court of public opinion, because his stance has very little credibility when he condemns an entire country for the actions of a tiny minority.

Still, as many here have argued, his right to protest should be defended to the last stand.

I look forward to reading more and hearing what he will say to see whether he redeems himself as far as reason and moral clarity are concerned, or doubles down on what seems to be his full swallowing of demagoguery du jour.

In comment 13091701 baadbill said:

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If you understood the country you live in, you'd understand the issue isn't about Kaepernick. He may be a douche. He made have abhorrent views. The issue is - if we get to shut him up - then we get to shut you up too.

Not once did I say "shut him up"...I do think he should be publicly admonished for his shitty form of "protest." Which, let's be frank, really didnt hit the nail on the head did it? Are people talking about him standing up to this racist machine, or his feeble attempt to garner attention?

In comment 13091706 PatersonPlank said:

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However, in my personal opinion, I disagree with him (which is my right also). If he wants to do something about the specific issue he mentioned then get involved and try. To me though, the national anthem thing says "All America is bad", not I have an issue with police violence in the colored community. America is a great country that has given him an opportunity to be a huge success (which he took). My other point here is I still don't know what he wants. Is he of the mindset that its all the cops fault? Is he going to stand next week, so this was a one week thing? What improvements does he think he has to see to stand up (which may not happen)? Etc.

I read that he sat for the anthem for the other 2 preseason games, but no one who gets outraged at this sort of thing noticed

In comment 13091696 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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"Well he made X so he should give 80% of that away." C'mon, that's nonsense.

Its really not. I was merely pointing out that if he thinks change should happen, he has plenty of resources to....you know, actually make it happen. I am no socialist. But before disrespecting the country's symbol and getting people who arent even racists, pissed off, how bout showing so.e initiative?

You guys are not this naive. Even the most left of you. This is the definition of a straw man argument and many of you look foolish defending it.

Yes it was his right...it's not like he went to jaim or was charged. So just stop saying that. It is the method and mode of his "protest" that I question.

I respected the guy at first, but thinking this is quintessential pathetic, pussy ass acting out behind the wall of celebrity. Fuck him qnd he should have been left by the curb.

You certainly have the right to dislike him. For his views and for how he presents them. The very best political speech is to ostracize people who have abhorrent views. So, go for it.

My only point is I consider it unamerican to get worked up over the burning of the flag; or the refusal to stand for the national anthem, recite the pledge of allegiance, etc. Dislike his views but don't take away the very thing that makes America great - the fact we allow assholes to be assholes publicly. The fact we even go so far as to allow Americans to vilify America and her symbols. Take that away from my country and you take my country with it.

I don't agree with CK and I believe everyone should remove their hats and show respect

With that being said, let me get this straight...

Not standing for the National Anthem as an expression of free speech/protest = not ok

Refusing to bake a cake for a gay person is totally fine if its against your religion?

In comment 13091788 Ned In Atlanta said:

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I don't agree with CK and I believe everyone should remove their hats and show respect With that being said, let me get this straight... Not standing for the National Anthem as an expression of free speech/protest = not ok Refusing to bake a cake for a gay person is totally fine if its against your religion?

I think most people are against his actions and logic, but defend his right to do them, but also defend the right of his employers to act accordingly.

So, I don't think you have it straight, but maybe you want to feel righteous.

If he actually has donated a decent amount of his 19M to the cause he claims to be supporting he might be legit with his stance. But the fact is he has not made any kind of personal sacrifice himself other than being a pretentious attention whore with this.

I hate someone who goes through the motions with the obvious intent to draw attention to themselves more then the cause the claim to be behind

In comment 13091789 madgiantscow009 said:

Quote:

In comment 13091788 Ned In Atlanta said: Quote: I don't agree with CK and I believe everyone should remove their hats and show respect With that being said, let me get this straight... Not standing for the National Anthem as an expression of free speech/protest = not ok Refusing to bake a cake for a gay person is totally fine if its against your religion? I think most people are against his actions and logic, but defend his right to do them, but also defend the right of his employers to act accordingly. So, I don't think you have it straight, but maybe you want to feel righteous.

His employer put out a statement, they're ok with it.

In comment 13091793 montanagiant said:

Quote:

If he actually has donated a decent amount of his 19M to the cause he claims to be supporting he might be legit with his stance. But the fact is he has not made any kind of personal sacrifice himself other than being a pretentious attention whore with this. I hate someone who goes through the motions with the obvious intent to draw attention to themselves more then the cause the claim to be behind

Dumb. It's not up to you to deem what amount of someone else's salary needs to be given to a cause for his stance to be deemed acceptable.

In comment 13091795 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13091793 montanagiant said: Quote: If he actually has donated a decent amount of his 19M to the cause he claims to be supporting he might be legit with his stance. But the fact is he has not made any kind of personal sacrifice himself other than being a pretentious attention whore with this. I hate someone who goes through the motions with the obvious intent to draw attention to themselves more then the cause the claim to be behind Dumb. It's not up to you to deem what amount of someone else's salary needs to be given to a cause for his stance to be deemed acceptable.

LOL...Sure it is when i put forth an opinion on what I believe. You want to call out a population on their sacrifice, show me your sacrifice first. His sacrifice was plopping his ass, if this was such an issue to him why was this the first public showing of it? If he really wanted to make a statement why not do it when he actually was relevant instead of waiting until now?

their money? That's an awful sense of entitlement and owner ship coming from another man speaking of what should be done with someone else's money.

In comment 13091793 montanagiant said:

Quote:

If he actually has donated a decent amount of his 19M to the cause he claims to be supporting he might be legit with his stance. But the fact is he has not made any kind of personal sacrifice himself other than being a pretentious attention whore with this. I hate someone who goes through the motions with the obvious intent to draw attention to themselves more then the cause the claim to be behind

different spectrum, but reminds of the ALS ice bucket challenge... a bunch of celebrities participated, but I wonder how much was actually donated... I'm sure some donated large sums

In comment 13091799 David in LA said:

Quote:

their money? That's an awful sense of entitlement and owner ship coming from another man speaking of what should be done with someone else's money.

So then illustrate us all with the other personal sacrifices HE has made regarding this issue. It should be an easy thing to show if in fact this is an problem he personally has taken issue with. You can't because as of right now CK's personal sacrifice has been to sit down while talking a big game, and nothing more then drawing attention to himself.

You can claim all you want that no one can judge him, but the fact remains that as of right now he has not done one thing personally to solidify the stance he has taken, its nothing more than lip service at this point. Make a personal sacrifice, don't just talk about it

He's been doing this since the first preseason game this year. What kind of person puts a dollar amount on the price of exercising their right? Thought that shit was free. But I guess exercising a free right comes with a lot on the checklist.

1) Are you a good enough spokesperson for this cause? (Made too much money? Quit yer complaining!)
2) Are you directly suffering from said oppression? (as if you can't voice a grievance unless it directly affects you)
3) I'm going to go ahead and question your motives behind your protest, anyways. You should spend more money to prove to me you're sincere about exercising your free right.

-Montana

In comment 13091800 J said:

Quote:

In comment 13091793 montanagiant said: Quote: If he actually has donated a decent amount of his 19M to the cause he claims to be supporting he might be legit with his stance. But the fact is he has not made any kind of personal sacrifice himself other than being a pretentious attention whore with this. I hate someone who goes through the motions with the obvious intent to draw attention to themselves more then the cause the claim to be behind different spectrum, but reminds of the ALS ice bucket challenge... a bunch of celebrities participated, but I wonder how much was actually donated... I'm sure some donated large sums

It does not have to be just money, it could be charitable events, speaking engagements, foundations he helps that support this issue, etc...Hell he could do free Football clinics at the very least. Unfortunately he has not done one of those things, the only sacrifice he has made is sitting on his ass. Don't talk it, walk it.

In comment 13091803 David in LA said:

Quote:

-Montana

Don't really have anything to show he is really all about this, so let me type "Sacrifcey" and hope that works...Please!!!!

~ Dave

but will bend over backwards to just dismiss all the repeated red flags on Josh Brown.

In comment 13091802 David in LA said:

Quote:

He's been doing this since the first preseason game this year. What kind of person puts a dollar amount on the price of exercising their right? Thought that shit was free. But I guess exercising a free right comes with a lot on the checklist. 1) Are you a good enough spokesperson for this cause? (Made too much money? Quit yer complaining!) 2) Are you directly suffering from said oppression? (as if you can't voice a grievance unless it directly affects you) 3) I'm going to go ahead and question your motives behind your protest, anyways. You should spend more money to prove to me you're sincere about exercising your free right.

Well fuck it, he has sat for 3 preseason games, he is all in then...Thanks for proving my point that his biggest effort for the cause is getting a good rest

In comment 13091806 David in LA said:

Quote:

but will bend over backwards to just dismiss all the repeated red flags on Josh Brown.

Great false equivalency, really makes your point

that CK needs to prove himself to show sincerity behind a cause. There's also an awful lot of paternalism involved in making proclamations that someone else needs to invest more of their money.

In comment 13091808 montanagiant said:

Quote:

In comment 13091806 David in LA said: Quote: but will bend over backwards to just dismiss all the repeated red flags on Josh Brown. Great false equivalency, really makes your point

Josh Brown has a pattern of repeated history that suggests he beats his wife. CK exercised a free right. The level of outrage on your end is backwards.

Better Sang that Anthem Boy!

In comment 13091726 baadbill said:

Quote:

You certainly have the right to dislike him. For his views and for how he presents them. The very best political speech is to ostracize people who have abhorrent views. So, go for it. My only point is I consider it unamerican to get worked up over the burning of the flag; or the refusal to stand for the national anthem, recite the pledge of allegiance, etc. Dislike his views but don't take away the very thing that makes America great - the fact we allow assholes to be assholes publicly. The fact we even go so far as to allow Americans to vilify America and her symbols. Take that away from my country and you take my country with it.

No, it's not un-American to get worked up over burning the flag etc. It would be to try to outlaw it. But that is a completely different thing. Telling people they can't criticize or get worked up over it is stifling their free speech. You can vilify America and you can vilify the people who do that.

In comment 13091815 buford said:

Quote:

In comment 13091726 baadbill said: Quote: You certainly have the right to dislike him. For his views and for how he presents them. The very best political speech is to ostracize people who have abhorrent views. So, go for it. My only point is I consider it unamerican to get worked up over the burning of the flag; or the refusal to stand for the national anthem, recite the pledge of allegiance, etc. Dislike his views but don't take away the very thing that makes America great - the fact we allow assholes to be assholes publicly. The fact we even go so far as to allow Americans to vilify America and her symbols. Take that away from my country and you take my country with it. ---------- Buford said: No, it's not un-American to get worked up over burning the flag etc. It would be to try to outlaw it. But that is a completely different thing. Telling people they can't criticize or get worked up over it is stifling their free speech. You can vilify America and you can vilify the people who do that.

You're right of course.

There is a huge difference between the government restricting free speech by passing a law making it illegal to fail to respect an American symbol versus Americans expressing their personal disapproval (which is as American as it gets). I was wrong in that chacterization.

Having said that, honoring the form of protest of someone refusing to salute the flag (or similar actions) is the ultimate demonstration of our country's principles. Attacking that form of protest shows a failure to appreciate the importance of free speech as the very foundation of our freedoms. Attacking the form of speech (not saluting the flag) rather than the content of speech (whatever it is Kaepernick is trying to say) is dangerous imo. Attacking a failure to salute the flag (or stand for the anthem, or recite the pledge of allegiance) is an attempt to force compulsory honor of national symbols. I can't think of anything more abhorrent and is how North Korea or Iran and other police states operate.

As Alanis would say.......

In comment 13091795 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13091793 montanagiant said: Quote: If he actually has donated a decent amount of his 19M to the cause he claims to be supporting he might be legit with his stance. But the fact is he has not made any kind of personal sacrifice himself other than being a pretentious attention whore with this. I hate someone who goes through the motions with the obvious intent to draw attention to themselves more then the cause the claim to be behind Dumb. It's not up to you to deem what amount of someone else's salary needs to be given to a cause for his stance to be deemed acceptable.

Hey, that's our tax structure.

In comment 13091799 David in LA said:

Quote:

their money? That's an awful sense of entitlement and owner ship coming from another man speaking of what should be done with someone else's money.

Actually, this is a better example of it.

In comment 13091827 baadbill said:

Quote:

In comment 13091815 buford said: Quote: There is a huge difference between the government restricting free speech by passing a law making it illegal to fail to respect an American symbol versus Americans expressing their personal disapproval (which is as American as it gets). I was wrong in that chacterization. Having said that, honoring the form of protest of someone refusing to salute the flag (or similar actions) is the ultimate demonstration of our country's principles. Attacking that form of protest shows a failure to appreciate the importance of free speech as the very foundation of our freedoms. Attacking the form of speech (not saluting the flag) rather than the content of speech (whatever it is Kaepernick is trying to say) is dangerous imo. Attacking a failure to salute the flag (or stand for the anthem, or recite the pledge of allegiance) is an attempt to force compulsory honor of national symbols. I can't think of anything more abhorrent and is how North Korea or Iran and other police states operate.

Catch 22 - it is not right to limit CK's right to make a protest.
Therefore, it is also not right to attack people calling him out for said protest.
Has to be a two way street. What makes his protest more important than those protesting his protest?

In comment 13091830 AP in Halfmoon said:

Quote:

As Alanis would say.......

Except that at the end he went back to confuse individuals with the State.

And, he's essentially saying that he's for free speech but only when it's the "right" kind of speech. He's wrong, IMO, in that speech is speech. CK's protest and the response are not qualitatively different. Well, in one sense they are different. In the sense that there is no real relationship between the focus of what CK is protesting for (whatever it is) and the vehicle he chooses to use for his protest versus how the responders. The latter are interpreting it overly broadly..."CK hates America" whereas the former treats it like Lent, doing something, anything, and attributing it to the cause in his head. He might as well have stopped eating potato chips for all the relationship it has to anything specific.

For giving Mike Florio and the rest of the football/sports media something to talk about other than the Josh Brown situation.

In comment 13091701 baadbill said:

Quote:

If you understood the country you live in, you'd understand the issue isn't about Kaepernick. He may be a douche. He made have abhorrent views. The issue is - if we get to shut him up - then we get to shut you up too.

Nobody is talking about shutting him up. This is a tangent this thread has taken.

Personally, I'm saying that what he's doing is nothing more than a stunt. Like Lena Dunham or Alec Baldwin saying they'll leave the country if this person or that person is elected resident. Big whoop. It's meaningless B.S. that accomplishes NOTHING to directly help the people he says are being victimized.

No, I don't know what he does with his money. Chopper mentioned a golf tournament or some such event -- big effin' deal. He's not protesting that inner city kids don't have enough golf courses or clubs. He's protesting real bad conditions in the black and/or brown community that are chronic and exacerbated by isolated problems with the police, conditions that -- okay, as far as I know -- he hasn't done s**t about and yet he sets himself up as a symbolic representative of what's wrong with the country.

He's doing EASY, EASY, EASY protesting stuff and inflicting it on the rest of us. Some of us like it, some don't, but nobody says he CAN'T do it. All he's done is create a publicity furor (surprise!!!!!) while poor kids are still going to bad schools and roaming the streets because they haven't got real opportunities to better themselves.

Do something about THAT, CK, then sitting makes sense and will be effective.

I couldn't agree more.

I'm more disappointed that Kap has decided to take a stand on the wrong issues.

If he wants to protest police shootings, that his prerogative, but he shouldn't confuse those shootings with the concept of oppression.

To say that the flag stands for oppression as a black President is nearing the end of his second term is ridiculous. To say that the flag represents oppression as he takes the field with several minority millionaires flies in the face of logic.

Oppression means a concerted denying of rights. It means that minorities are actively overlooked in favor of whites. Oppression has nothing to do with his rants on police and the ridiculous statements that cosmetologists get more training than officers.

Putting aside all of the things I disagree with in his protest, I have a hard time getting past the fact that the guy really doesn't know what his protest means.

In comment 13091375 Jim in Hoboken said:

Quote:

while lettering in 3 sports, and has a Bible verse tattooed on his right arm. Still, I wish he'd get cut so that nobody'd pay any attention to what he has to say. While I don't think you have to personally experience something in order to protest against it, and I have no ways of knowing if he was discriminated against or not, but he was raised by white parents, after being abandoned by his African American father. I'm sure the awkwardness of being raised in a white family with his skin was distressing, but there are so many things from his upbringing and particular background he could choose to speak out about, but he chose this. What kind of oppression did he get aside from curious stares? He could've chosen to serve his race/community much better by speaking out against African American children born to out of wedlock parents. Instead, he decided to do this. I guess this topic is more controversial and more noteworthy. Well, I hope he's enjoying the attention he's getting now. I can't wait to hear him complain that he got cut because society doesn't like black quarterbacks.

Word was he was getting recruited out of HS by Ivy schools but went to Nevada because their no athletic scholarship rules meant he couldn't get a full ride, only a partial need based grant.

My problem is more with the ignorance of his statements (no difference between the two flags) than the fact he protested. To get a 4.0, in light of those statements, he must have had a US history teacher who was a VERY easy grader.

everyone on this thread who agrees or disagrees with going the route that CK took knows that he's free to say whatever he wants and I don't actually believe anyone is trying to silence him. Like everything else on BBI (or in the real world for that matter) this isn't a black and white scenario, its extremely grey.

If CK has a point to make, fine, can't stop you from "protesting" our nations anthem. But I think he owes an explanation other than "something needs to be done".

I saw a piece this morning on Dwyane Wade's mom who's a pastor and spoke out about her niece getting murdered in Chicago. She used the word "UNITY" as the focal point of her message. So why can't CK? Why can't he promote unity and not division? He plays a game where unity is the #1 factor of success. He was raised in a house that unified races. Instead we get "I will stand when I see progress is made"....what? What does that even mean? Is he going to help with that progress or just sit on the sideline until the work is done for him?

I hate how much attention he's gotten. He's a lousy player with, IMO, a lousy opinion on the troubling times we face day in and day out as a nation. He isn't helping anything.

bringing the fire...��

It's unfortunate this isn't getting the attention it deserves which is ZERO

Why? Give it the attention it deserves by ignoring him.

In comment 13091898 AP in Halfmoon said:

Quote:

It's unfortunate this isn't getting the attention it deserves which is ZERO

Yes. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more players and fans doing the same thing at the same time and got no mention whatsoever

My Dad stood, so I stood..I then carried on the tradition. My kids decided they wanted to stand also. I would have been disappointed if they didn't, but ok with their right not to do so..

"No, I don't know what Kaepernick does with his money. But he should do different things with his money than what he's doing!"

Good grief.

In comment 13091876 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

I'm more disappointed that Kap has decided to take a stand on the wrong issues. If he wants to protest police shootings, that his prerogative, but he shouldn't confuse those shootings with the concept of oppression. To say that the flag stands for oppression as a black President is nearing the end of his second term is ridiculous. To say that the flag represents oppression as he takes the field with several minority millionaires flies in the face of logic. Oppression means a concerted denying of rights. It means that minorities are actively overlooked in favor of whites. Oppression has nothing to do with his rants on police and the ridiculous statements that cosmetologists get more training than officers. Putting aside all of the things I disagree with in his protest, I have a hard time getting past the fact that the guy really doesn't know what his protest means.

For me, this is the crux of things. And, everything else stems from this basic misunderstanding on CK's part.

In comment 13091889 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

everyone on this thread who agrees or disagrees with going the route that CK took knows that he's free to say whatever he wants and I don't actually believe anyone is trying to silence him. Like everything else on BBI (or in the real world for that matter) this isn't a black and white scenario, its extremely grey. If CK has a point to make, fine, can't stop you from "protesting" our nations anthem. But I think he owes an explanation other than "something needs to be done". I saw a piece this morning on Dwyane Wade's mom who's a pastor and spoke out about her niece getting murdered in Chicago. She used the word "UNITY" as the focal point of her message. So why can't CK? Why can't he promote unity and not division? He plays a game where unity is the #1 factor of success. He was raised in a house that unified races. Instead we get "I will stand when I see progress is made"....what? What does that even mean? Is he going to help with that progress or just sit on the sideline until the work is done for him? I hate how much attention he's gotten. He's a lousy player with, IMO, a lousy opinion on the troubling times we face day in and day out as a nation. He isn't helping anything.

I agree. Everyone has the right to their opinion on this matter. And I don't begrudge anyone for thinking Kaepernick's actions were lame since I agree that it's lame.

However, there are two points that annoys me about this situation, more specifically in this thread:

1) Some of these military veterans posting about wanting to shut him down by kicking his ass. At no time does his actions deserve physical violence, and for people, who swore an oath to defend the Constitution, they should know better than what the Constitution stands for. The fact that these people (many of them pretty damn senior) want to take on the role of the self-appointed protectors and enforcers of the ideals of patriotism is not only embarrassing but in many ways scary to think about. The military is a servant of the people. They don't enforce patriotism but rather ensures that people can display their patriotism or lack thereof in any form they want as long as it's lawful. And then to use the tired-old "brave men and women have sacrificed for the flag" is insulting to anyone, who have worn the uniform. It's a catchy cliche that has no place in a stupid posts assailing someone for doing something that's lawful and in this case is something that shouldn't even be newsworthy.

2) The fact that people are giving him far more attention than he really deserves. As I've stated, I think what he's done is pretty lame. As Greg pointed out, I doubt that Kaeparnick really has thought this through beyond at a shallow level. As Fatman stated above (and as many have pointed out already), what is his angle? While I can respect his right to such a protest, I can also be critical of his actions and the motive behind it. Yet what's even more annoying than those is the fact that people are acting like this is a personal insult to them. Yes, everyone has the right to criticize him and ridicule him for it, but is it really worth it? He's some celebrity, who probably brings very little of substance to the issue. The less attention we give him and other celebrities, the better.

In comment 13090833 Big Al said:

Quote:

has been the best and most correct poster throughout this thread.

That's certainly a subjective opinion. There's been a lot of good thoughts posted throughout by many posters, and certainly some dumb mixed in too.

Bottom line i'm not sure an employee (last i checked, when you are in a football uniform standing in front of 60,000 customers - you are on the clock) has all these rights to freedom of expression so many here (including baadbill) are espousing. What Kaepernick does in his personal time - we all agree, he can do whatever the fuck he wants... but we all live under a different set of rules when in the workplace.

I'm not up to speed on the NFL code of conduct policies nor what the 49ers rights as employers going forward are however.

I do know if Kaepernick thinks loss of endorsements/job would prove "he was right" - reflects someone completely clueless with his own (lack of) ability spanning the past few seasons.

Personally if I sucked at my profession i'd be less concerned about making political statements while on the job... and more concerned with proving to my coaches and teammates that I belong.

In comment 13091860 Montreal Man said:

Quote:

In comment 13091701 baadbill said: Quote: If you understood the country you live in, you'd understand the issue isn't about Kaepernick. He may be a douche. He made have abhorrent views. The issue is - if we get to shut him up - then we get to shut you up too. Nobody is talking about shutting him up. This is a tangent this thread has taken. Personally, I'm saying that what he's doing is nothing more than a stunt. Like Lena Dunham or Alec Baldwin saying they'll leave the country if this person or that person is elected resident. Big whoop. It's meaningless B.S. that accomplishes NOTHING to directly help the people he says are being victimized. No, I don't know what he does with his money. Chopper mentioned a golf tournament or some such event -- big effin' deal. He's not protesting that inner city kids don't have enough golf courses or clubs. He's protesting real bad conditions in the black and/or brown community that are chronic and exacerbated by isolated problems with the police, conditions that -- okay, as far as I know -- he hasn't done s**t about and yet he sets himself up as a symbolic representative of what's wrong with the country. He's doing EASY, EASY, EASY protesting stuff and inflicting it on the rest of us. Some of us like it, some don't, but nobody says he CAN'T do it. All he's done is create a publicity furor (surprise!!!!!) while poor kids are still going to bad schools and roaming the streets because they haven't got real opportunities to better themselves. Do something about THAT, CK, then sitting makes sense and will be effective.

100% spot on

In comment 13092122 MetsAreBack said:

Quote:

In comment 13090833 Big Al said: Quote: has been the best and most correct poster throughout this thread. That's certainly a subjective opinion. There's been a lot of good thoughts posted throughout by many posters, and certainly some dumb mixed in too. Bottom line i'm not sure an employee (last i checked, when you are in a football uniform standing in front of 60,000 customers - you are on the clock) has all these rights to freedom of expression so many here (including baadbill) are espousing. What Kaepernick does in his personal time - we all agree, he can do whatever the fuck he wants... but we all live under a different set of rules when in the workplace. I'm not up to speed on the NFL code of conduct policies nor what the 49ers rights as employers going forward are however. I do know if Kaepernick thinks loss of endorsements/job would prove "he was right" - reflects someone completely clueless with his own (lack of) ability spanning the past few seasons. Personally if I sucked at my profession i'd be less concerned about making political statements while on the job... and more concerned with proving to my coaches and teammates that I belong.

Yes it is subjective but if you disagree with my thoughts or actions I will seek you out and punch you in the face.

Baseball got rid of streaking by turning the cameras away form the attention-seeker.

I'm pretty sure that would work here. CK can do what he wants and pursue his cause on his own time. Thats fine. The NFL can stop being his fool and we would be better off.

to deny the quote serious inequality of opportunity issues in minority communities, as well as some pretty abhorrent statistics on profiling and arrests.

That said, CK is also a troll; this movement was DOA from the start, as it allows people to wrap themselves in a thin veneer of nationalism and ignore the greater issues.

In comment 13091810 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13091808 montanagiant said: Quote: In comment 13091806 David in LA said: Quote: but will bend over backwards to just dismiss all the repeated red flags on Josh Brown. Great false equivalency, really makes your point Josh Brown has a pattern of repeated history that suggests he beats his wife. CK exercised a free right. The level of outrage on your end is backwards. Better Sang that Anthem Boy!

What Josh Brown has done is one thing, what CK is doing is another. You trying to combine the two as one weak comparison is about as desperate an attempt as could be made to try to bolster your own argument. It's a false equivalency, and you're doing it because you don't have anything to show that this is nothing more than a stunt to call attention to himself.

Prior to this we:
Never once saw him mention this in an interview
Never once saw him write an op/ed regarding his concern with this issue
Never heard of him joining in with any peaceful protests regarding the issue

There is no question this is a major issue in this country right now, and everyone has the right in this country to express themselves within legal means such as sitting for 2 mins while it plays. Conversely, others have the same right to express their opinion over those actions, when the most this person has done regarding this issue is call attention to himself using it as a means. It rings hollow on his part, and it hinders the issue instead of helping it.

In comment 13092270 Big Al said:

Quote:

Yes it is subjective but if you disagree with my thoughts or actions I will seek you out and punch you in the face.

Well that sounds mature. And you could try - the end result is I either end up kicking your Internet toughguy ass, or you end up in court paying me restitution & punitive for the assault.

In comment 13091940 Mr. Bungle said:

Quote:

"No, I don't know what Kaepernick does with his money. But he should do different things with his money than what he's doing!" Good grief.

You're missing the point. It could be money, volunteer work, editorials, etc... ANYTHING that involves actual effort and/or personal sacrifice on his part to aid the cause he claims to support. Until that happens this is lip service that takes the discussion into a different direction than the actual issue. He has made it about himself, not the problem.

In comment 13092273 WideRight said:

Quote:

Baseball got rid of streaking by turning the cameras away form the attention-seeker. I'm pretty sure that would work here. CK can do what he wants and pursue his cause on his own time. Thats fine. The NFL can stop being his fool and we would be better off.

Mike Curtis solved the problem for the NFL, but I'm not sure that would be appropriate in this case.

In comment 13091860 Montreal Man said:

Quote:

No, I don't know what he does with his money. Chopper mentioned a golf tournament or some such event -- big effin' deal. He's not protesting that inner city kids don't have enough golf courses or clubs.

Kaepernick has been involved for years with the Camp Taylor charity, a camp for kids with heart defects.

"Big effin' deal." -- Montreal Man

In comment 13092335 MetsAreBack said:

Quote:

In comment 13092270 Big Al said: Quote: Yes it is subjective but if you disagree with my thoughts or actions I will seek you out and punch you in the face. Well that sounds mature. And you could try - the end result is I either end up kicking your Internet toughguy ass, or you end up in court paying me restitution & punitive for the assault.

You clearly didn't read the entirety of the thread. Baadbill has been Wyatt effin Earp of this thread.

In comment 13091889 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

I hate how much attention he's gotten. He's a lousy player with, IMO, a lousy opinion on the troubling times we face day in and day out as a nation. He isn't helping anything.

Totally unrelated to the OP, but I'm not sure he should be counted out as a QB yet. He's a rather enigmatic player. No, I'm certainly not claiming, like Jaworski, he could be "one of the greatest QBs ever" (ridiculous), but he's got tremendous athleticism, a cannon for an arm, and has won in some really big spots incl 2 playoff games against Aaron Rodgers. That one where he was a God Damned cheetah scrambling for almost 200 and the other where he Eli'd a 2 min drill to win the game.

The talent on the Niners' roster has been gutted so it's far from certain he'll turn it around and maybe he peaked and that's it, but don't think he's a definite lost cause. Kelly might help him improve. Someone like Andy Reid would do so even better.

Anyone else notice all the dupes who signed up just to post in this thread supporting a couple of other posts? Go back and read the first few pages, it's pretty funny to see all the 8/16'ers supporting just these two posts

In comment 13091940 Mr. Bungle said:

Quote:

"No, I don't know what Kaepernick does with his money. But he should do different things with his money than what he's doing!" Good grief.

Good grief for entirely missing the point. You bungled this one.

I think what Kapaernick did was stupid, but not because he's an asshole or wrong. It was stupid because it isn't the type of protest that sheds positive attention on anything. It just makes him look like a douchebag, and it isn't going to bring about any social change.

In comment 13092341 montanagiant said:

Quote:

In comment 13091940 Mr. Bungle said: Quote: "No, I don't know what Kaepernick does with his money. But he should do different things with his money than what he's doing!" Good grief. You're missing the point. It could be money, volunteer work, editorials, etc... ANYTHING that involves actual effort and/or personal sacrifice on his part to aid the cause he claims to support. Until that happens this is lip service that takes the discussion into a different direction than the actual issue. He has made it about himself, not the problem.

100% don't believe you'd risk alienating sponsors if your career is at the crossroads. You're full of shit, and your level of paternalism is frankly embarrassing. CK didn't jump through enough hoops to show whether he's genuine or not. You're not some arbiter of what someone should put forth to truly be behind a cause.

it applies to his supposed understanding of history and meanings of words.

He clearly isn't using the right definition of oppression and he showed up for a press conference wearing a shirt with Fidel Castro on it. That's almost like a PETA member wearing a mink fur and leather pants.

If somebody can clearly communicate their points, I may disagree with the message, but rarely will call them stupid. In Kap's case, he most definitely comes across as stupid or at least ignorant to the situation. If you care so much about something to take a stand (or I guess sit), it really behooves one to at least know the right background so you can intelligently discuss the issue without sounding like a moron or spouting off conflicting messages.

In comment 13092564 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

it applies to his supposed understanding of history and meanings of words. He clearly isn't using the right definition of oppression and he showed up for a press conference wearing a shirt with Fidel Castro on it. That's almost like a PETA member wearing a mink fur and leather pants. If somebody can clearly communicate their points, I may disagree with the message, but rarely will call them stupid. In Kap's case, he most definitely comes across as stupid or at least ignorant to the situation. If you care so much about something to take a stand (or I guess sit), it really behooves one to at least know the right background so you can intelligently discuss the issue without sounding like a moron or spouting off conflicting messages.

You're looking for any reason to discredit whether a guy is genuine enough. So his point is moot because he wore a shirt. Kevin Durant was wearing a Ramones shirt, and was asked what his favorite song was, and he told the person asking that he stumped him good.

In comment 13092560 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13092341 montanagiant said: Quote: In comment 13091940 Mr. Bungle said: Quote: "No, I don't know what Kaepernick does with his money. But he should do different things with his money than what he's doing!" Good grief. You're missing the point. It could be money, volunteer work, editorials, etc... ANYTHING that involves actual effort and/or personal sacrifice on his part to aid the cause he claims to support. Until that happens this is lip service that takes the discussion into a different direction than the actual issue. He has made it about himself, not the problem. 100% don't believe you'd risk alienating sponsors if your career is at the crossroads. You're full of shit, and your level of paternalism is frankly embarrassing. CK didn't jump through enough hoops to show whether he's genuine or not. You're not some arbiter of what someone should put forth to truly be behind a cause.

He has not inked a new sponsorship deal since 2014. So the answer is he is not risking much, if at all.
Sponsorpitch/Colin Kaaepernick - ( New Window )

he's still risking the ones he still has. Are you this obtuse? Seems like your beef with CK is that you don't think he should be protesting at all, because you don't personally believe he has anything to protest about. Just come out and say it.

CK willingly chose a poor platform with which to protest, and that will simply galvanize those opposed to equality of opportunity.

CK picked a trollish way of attacking an important issue, and one that has spectacularly backfired. And one that he should have known would have backfired.

it goes to credibility of the messenger. The onus is on Kap to make sure that he comes across as credible or his "protest" really has nothing to stand on.

When a guy bases a protest on oppression, but then cites examples of why he's protesting that have nothing to do with oppression, and when he's apparently so pissed off at oppression that he wears a shirt with one of the biggest oppressors in world history, that's not very smart.

I'm not joking when I said it would be like a PETA member standing up with a mink coat and leather pants.

If you think that's just looking for a reason to discredit him, then I don't know what to say - it is a glaring, obvious contradiction. It isn't some minor oversight that has nothing to do with his message.

It would be like Kevin Durant sitting out a game to protest long-haired, drugged out rockers and then showing up to the press conference in that same Ramones shirt.

In comment 13092573 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13092564 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: it applies to his supposed understanding of history and meanings of words. He clearly isn't using the right definition of oppression and he showed up for a press conference wearing a shirt with Fidel Castro on it. That's almost like a PETA member wearing a mink fur and leather pants. If somebody can clearly communicate their points, I may disagree with the message, but rarely will call them stupid. In Kap's case, he most definitely comes across as stupid or at least ignorant to the situation. If you care so much about something to take a stand (or I guess sit), it really behooves one to at least know the right background so you can intelligently discuss the issue without sounding like a moron or spouting off conflicting messages. You're looking for any reason to discredit whether a guy is genuine enough. So his point is moot because he wore a shirt. Kevin Durant was wearing a Ramones shirt, and was asked what his favorite song was, and he told the person asking that he stumped him good.

How many people did the Ramones line up against a wall and execute?

In comment 13092573 David in LA said:

Quote:

You're looking for any reason to discredit whether a guy is genuine enough. So his point is moot because he wore a shirt. Kevin Durant was wearing a Ramones shirt, and was asked what his favorite song was, and he told the person asking that he stumped him good.

So you're admitting that he's not very bright?

In comment 13092583 David in LA said:

Quote:

he's still risking the ones he still has. Are you this obtuse? Seems like your beef with CK is that you don't think he should be protesting at all, because you don't personally believe he has anything to protest about. Just come out and say it.

The only risk he would have is if they were planning on reusing him, which is unlikely given he is a back-up at this point.

You won't see Beats or Jaguar producing a new nationally televised commercial anytime soon with CK as the spokesperson for that fact alone

the league in a few years, similar to how Chris Kluwe milked the "my career ended because I don't hate gay people" storyline for several years.

In comment 13092586 kicker said:

Quote:

CK willingly chose a poor platform with which to protest, and that will simply galvanize those opposed to equality of opportunity. CK picked a trollish way of attacking an important issue, and one that has spectacularly backfired. And one that he should have known would have backfired.

That's a reasonable stance. To insist he didn't put out enough out of his pocket is my main beef. Why is it that these issues require a perfect spokesperson? I get the sense anything short of Lebron isn't good enough.

In comment 13092592 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 13092573 David in LA said: Quote: You're looking for any reason to discredit whether a guy is genuine enough. So his point is moot because he wore a shirt. Kevin Durant was wearing a Ramones shirt, and was asked what his favorite song was, and he told the person asking that he stumped him good. So you're admitting that he's not very bright?

Nice, steering the convo about another man's intellect, all because of a t-shirt.

how having a shirt on that contradicts someone's favorite style of music compares to someone wearing a shirt of a hated communist (talk about oppression) during a press conference where he was trying to defend not standing up for his nation's national anthem, because of...oppression. Was this just a coincidence? The only shirt he had on hand?

I get those that want to defend his freedom of speech, can't argue that, but it stops there.

Has he stated what he's going to do to help the cause, or is he expecting everyone else to do the heavy lifting?

In comment 13092605 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13092586 kicker said: Quote: CK willingly chose a poor platform with which to protest, and that will simply galvanize those opposed to equality of opportunity. CK picked a trollish way of attacking an important issue, and one that has spectacularly backfired. And one that he should have known would have backfired. That's a reasonable stance. To insist he didn't put out enough out of his pocket is my main beef. Why is it that these issues require a perfect spokesperson? I get the sense anything short of Lebron isn't good enough.

Eh, it's not that he's not the perfect spokesman. It's that, all too often, these people are really in a position to enact meaningful social change, and they fall far short.

Is it that he's deeply cared about these issues, or is it all the talk about his football career (or lack thereof) that has trended a lot of his recent behavior?

That, and these trollish displays really set back a movement that does not need him.

You compared this to Kevin Durant not knowing anything about the Ramones despite wearing a Ramones shirt. This implies that Colin Kaepernick doesn't actually know who Fidel Castro is. The alternative is that he does know who Fidel Castro is and wears the shirt anyway.

So, based on what you've said, the choice for Kaepernick is ignorance and stupidity or mendacity and hypocrisy. Neither reflects particularly well on him.

In comment 13092599 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

the league in a few years, similar to how Chris Kluwe milked the "my career ended because I don't hate gay people" storyline for several years.

Not the same, CK seems to be ok with whatever consequences happen.

In comment 13092621 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13092599 Greg from LI said: Quote: the league in a few years, similar to how Chris Kluwe milked the "my career ended because I don't hate gay people" storyline for several years. Not the same, CK seems to be ok with whatever consequences happen.

Kaep has 61 million reasons to feel that way

.

that Kap isn't exactly OK with the consequences since he said if he's released it will be evidence that he's right.

Pretty much he's covered all the bases. If he stays and plays, he can continue to sit for the National Anthem and if he's benched or released, he can claim that the man is oppressing him.

In comment 13092587 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

it goes to credibility of the messenger. The onus is on Kap to make sure that he comes across as credible or his "protest" really has nothing to stand on. When a guy bases a protest on oppression, but then cites examples of why he's protesting that have nothing to do with oppression, and when he's apparently so pissed off at oppression that he wears a shirt with one of the biggest oppressors in world history, that's not very smart. I'm not joking when I said it would be like a PETA member standing up with a mink coat and leather pants. If you think that's just looking for a reason to discredit him, then I don't know what to say - it is a glaring, obvious contradiction. It isn't some minor oversight that has nothing to do with his message. It would be like Kevin Durant sitting out a game to protest long-haired, drugged out rockers and then showing up to the press conference in that same Ramones shirt.

Whoah, whoah, whoah!!! Outside of Dee Dee, who are you calling "drugged out"?

In comment 13092638 David in LA said:

Quote:

.

t

To some (many?), I think so..Wouldn't to me though

were long-haired:)

In comment 13092649 Mr. Bungle said:

Quote:

In comment 13092587 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: it goes to credibility of the messenger. The onus is on Kap to make sure that he comes across as credible or his "protest" really has nothing to stand on. When a guy bases a protest on oppression, but then cites examples of why he's protesting that have nothing to do with oppression, and when he's apparently so pissed off at oppression that he wears a shirt with one of the biggest oppressors in world history, that's not very smart. I'm not joking when I said it would be like a PETA member standing up with a mink coat and leather pants. If you think that's just looking for a reason to discredit him, then I don't know what to say - it is a glaring, obvious contradiction. It isn't some minor oversight that has nothing to do with his message. It would be like Kevin Durant sitting out a game to protest long-haired, drugged out rockers and then showing up to the press conference in that same Ramones shirt. Whoah, whoah, whoah!!! Outside of Dee Dee, who are you calling "drugged out"?

Now we get to the important stuff.

In comment 13092624 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 13092621 David in LA said: Quote: In comment 13092599 Greg from LI said: Quote: the league in a few years, similar to how Chris Kluwe milked the "my career ended because I don't hate gay people" storyline for several years. Not the same, CK seems to be ok with whatever consequences happen. Kaep has 61 million reasons to feel that way

There's also been no consequences so I'm not sure we really know what he is okay with. I think it's possible that he could construe football decisions as pushback but until that happens nobody,even him, knows for sure.

In comment 13092605 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13092586 kicker said: Quote: CK willingly chose a poor platform with which to protest, and that will simply galvanize those opposed to equality of opportunity. CK picked a trollish way of attacking an important issue, and one that has spectacularly backfired. And one that he should have known would have backfired. That's a reasonable stance. To insist he didn't put out enough out of his pocket is my main beef. Why is it that these issues require a perfect spokesperson? I get the sense anything short of Lebron isn't good enough.

Geez,I know it's just me, but I'd buy whatever CK was selling any day over what was pushed by Lebron.

that has amassed wealth, he cannot speak out on issues. You have to be a perfect spokesperson to do so.

In comment 13092672 David in LA said:

Quote:

that has amassed wealth, he cannot speak out on issues. You have to be a perfect spokesperson to do so.

Not to be (too) argumentative, but I haven't seen anyone say he cannot speak out on issues. I think people criticized him wrt the National Anthem and the murky means, if that was his vehicle for speaking out.

Quote:

You have to be a perfect spokesperson to do so

Perfection isn't required. Good athletic performance isn't required. You know what is? Being able to clearly convey a message that is either supported by facts or reasonable opinion.

Using the term oppression to describe police shootings shows a lack of understanding what the word means. Wearing a shirt with Castro on it while discussing oppression show a lack of awareness.

You don't have to be perfect, you just can't come off seeming like an ignorant schmuck.

In comment 13092586 kicker said:

Quote:

CK willingly chose a poor platform with which to protest, and that will simply galvanize those opposed to equality of opportunity. CK picked a trollish way of attacking an important issue, and one that has spectacularly backfired. And one that he should have known would have backfired.

This is one where he could have learned from a guy like Richard Sherman. At least he articulated his concerns and protests.

David Diehl on Facebook:

Quote:

On July 4, 1776, the Continental Congress passed a resolution authorizing a committee to devise a seal for the United States of America. This mission, designed to reflect the Founding Fathers' beliefs, values, and sovereignty of the new Nation, did not become a reality until June 20, 1782. In heraldic devices, such as seals, each element has a specific meaning. Even colors have specific meanings. The colors red, white, and blue did not have meanings for the Stars and Stripes when it was adopted in 1777. However, the colors in the Great Seal did have specific meanings. Charles Thompson, Secretary of the Continental Congress, reporting to Congress on the Seal, stated: "The colors of the pales (the vertical stripes) are those used in the flag of the United States of America; White signifies purity and innocence, Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue, the color of the Chief (the broad band above the stripes) signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice."

"protest", so I'll say one more thing and be done with it. Give his sartorial choices, I'd find it instructive to see what Kaepernick's answer would be to this question - would you rather be a black man in the United States or an average Cuban under Castro?

Silly as the "love it or leave it" comments are, they unwittingly do make a salient point. Regimes that are truly oppressive do generate a lot of fleeing refugees. People are willing to drown to get out of Cuba, as they were to escape Vietnam in the '70s. They risk death from dehydration and heatstroke to cross the southwestern desert from Mexico to the US. They pack themselves like sardines into shipping containers for weeks to escape China.

In comment 13092681 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

Quote: You have to be a perfect spokesperson to do so Perfection isn't required. Good athletic performance isn't required. You know what is? Being able to clearly convey a message that is either supported by facts or reasonable opinion. Using the term oppression to describe police shootings shows a lack of understanding what the word means. Wearing a shirt with Castro on it while discussing oppression show a lack of awareness. You don't have to be perfect, you just can't come off seeming like an ignorant schmuck.

Sure, he might have used a word that's too strong for your liking. That doesn't take away from the fact that he perceives things are so bad in this country, that he was motivated enough to protest the anthem. You're hanging onto a word, when you should be asking why he's doing all of this.

In comment 13092695 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

"protest", so I'll say one more thing and be done with it. Give his sartorial choices, I'd find it instructive to see what Kaepernick's answer would be to this question - would you rather be a black man in the United States or an average Cuban under Castro? Silly as the "love it or leave it" comments are, they unwittingly do make a salient point. Regimes that are truly oppressive do generate a lot of fleeing refugees. People are willing to drown to get out of Cuba, as they were to escape Vietnam in the '70s. They risk death from dehydration and heatstroke to cross the southwestern desert from Mexico to the US. They pack themselves like sardines into shipping containers for weeks to escape China.

To your second point, no matter what the situation is in truly oppressive nations where it's either flee and risk death in order to get freedom or stay and live under oppressive control, it still doesn't change the fact that "love it or leave it" is still a lame and lowest common denominator response to someone holding differing view of this nation. One step worse is to evoke the "sacrifices of the brave men and women, who fought for the flag." But the worst is when people say "if you do that in front of me, I'll kick your ass." Sure fella...get yourself arrested and ruin your life just to save a piece of cloth.

In comment 13092695 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

"protest", so I'll say one more thing and be done with it. Give his sartorial choices, I'd find it instructive to see what Kaepernick's answer would be to this question - would you rather be a black man in the United States or an average Cuban under Castro?

And from things I've read but obviously am unable to confirm, an even more relevant question is whether he would rather be a black man in the US or a black man in Cuba.

Quote:

You're hanging onto a word, when you should be asking why he's doing all of this.

The onus shouldn't be on us as to why he's doing this. The onus should be on him to clearly communicate it. If he's truly effective, we wouldn't be parsing words or dissecting his t-shirt. Forms of protest are only effective is people know what the fuck you're protesting and I not to be egotistical, but I consider myself smarter than the average person, and I have a hard time understanding what he's protesting.

A main point of language isn't just a random assortment of sounds or characters, it is to communicate in a way a lot of people understand.

Put it this way - from appearances alone, it doesn't look like Kap took the time to understand historical references or the definition of key words. Hell, I'm on a message board and if I go on a rant about fuckwads and the like, I almost always make sure that if I'm quoting any facts or stats that they are correct before I tell mudbear that he'a a fucking lunatic for thinking that OJ Anderson fumbled away the 2000 SB.

For Kap to not seem to craft his message indicates to me that he's either not fully behind his protest or he's pretty much a fucking idiot.

Quote:

Forms of protest are only effective is people know what the fuck you're protesting and I not to be egotistical, but I consider myself smarter than the average person, and I have a hard time understanding what he's protesting.

If I was reading this sentence, I'd wonder how fucking stupid is the twat that wrote it.

In comment 13092766 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

Quote: Forms of protest are only effective is people know what the fuck you're protesting and I not to be egotistical, but I consider myself smarter than the average person, and I have a hard time understanding what he's protesting. If I was reading this sentence, I'd wonder how fucking stupid is the twat that wrote it.

GDI...I was going to agree with you and did a Ctrl+F to find who wrote that. Now I really agree with you and say that is one fucking stupid twat...:0

In comment 13092647 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

that Kap isn't exactly OK with the consequences since he said if he's released it will be evidence that he's right. Pretty much he's covered all the bases. If he stays and plays, he can continue to sit for the National Anthem and if he's benched or released, he can claim that the man is oppressing him.

More evidence of claiming to be supporting a real cause, while all actions speak more of himself and his own personal cause.

In comment 13092695 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

"protest", so I'll say one more thing and be done with it. Give his sartorial choices, I'd find it instructive to see what Kaepernick's answer would be to this question - would you rather be a black man in the United States or an average Cuban under Castro? Silly as the "love it or leave it" comments are, they unwittingly do make a salient point. Regimes that are truly oppressive do generate a lot of fleeing refugees. People are willing to drown to get out of Cuba, as they were to escape Vietnam in the '70s. They risk death from dehydration and heatstroke to cross the southwestern desert from Mexico to the US. They pack themselves like sardines into shipping containers for weeks to escape China.

We should probably aim higher than those places.

In comment 13092734 RC02XX said:

Quote:

In comment 13092695 Greg from LI said: Quote: But the worst is when people say "if you do that in front of me, I'll kick your ass." Sure fella...get yourself arrested and ruin your life just to save a piece of cloth.

Rick Monday

In comment 13092808 Montreal Man said:

Quote:

In comment 13092734 RC02XX said: Quote: In comment 13092695 Greg from LI said: Quote: But the worst is when people say "if you do that in front of me, I'll kick your ass." Sure fella...get yourself arrested and ruin your life just to save a piece of cloth. Rick Monday

Big difference between someone saving a flag and someone espousing violence against those, who burn it. Come on, Jon.

In comment 13092672 David in LA said:

Quote:

that has amassed wealth, he cannot speak out on issues. You have to be a perfect spokesperson to do so.

He can do whatever he wants, but he should be prepared for the backlash since we are entitled to give it to him.

He created this mess and now he has to stick with it, no turning back from something like this. As others pointed out, he wins either way; sitting or getting cut and "proving his point".

I don't believe celebrities should be treated differently than regular citizens nor do I think they should be required to give back, donate, etc (I obviously would prefer that). But when they use their fame to accuse and incite the masses, I have a problem with that. CK's voice and opinion is no better or worse than mine or yours, but its louder. He can influence change just by being famous moreso than your average citizen. That's actual power that he isn't responsibly wielding.

Sitting during a national anthem and saying he wants change without any actual plan is so incredibly ignorant. He deserves the backlash he's getting because this clearly wasn't a well thought out plan (if change is actually what he wants).

After Monday saved the flag, and the cameras were no longer on him, he ran back to the outfield with a bat and beat the stuffings out of those two guys.

In comment 13092825 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

After Monday saved the flag, and the cameras were no longer on him, he ran back to the outfield with a bat and beat the stuffings out of those two guys.

That would have sucked since one of them was an 11 year old boy. Never mind, little kids need some beating every once in a while...amirite?

Obviously one person can't "solve" racism. The issue is far too complex that that, so it gets buried constantly.

In comment 13092846 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

Obviously one person can't "solve" racism. The issue is far too complex that that, so it gets buried constantly.

+1

In comment 13092815 RC02XX said:

Quote:

In comment 13092808 Montreal Man said: [quote] In comment 13092695 Greg from LI said: Quote: But the worst is when people say "if you do that in front of me, I'll kick your ass." Sure fella...get yourself arrested and ruin your life just to save a piece of cloth. Rick Monday Big difference between someone saving a flag and someone espousing violence against those, who burn it. Come on, Jon.

First, the post has so many grandparents I don't know who I'm responding to. But, whomever ...

Who's espousing violence against those who burn it? Not me. My whole point is that it's a futile gesture that will do nothing to help the people he wants to help.

In comment 13092824 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

In comment 13092672 David in LA said: Quote: that has amassed wealth, he cannot speak out on issues. You have to be a perfect spokesperson to do so. He can do whatever he wants, but he should be prepared for the backlash since we are entitled to give it to him. He created this mess and now he has to stick with it, no turning back from something like this. As others pointed out, he wins either way; sitting or getting cut and "proving his point". I don't believe celebrities should be treated differently than regular citizens nor do I think they should be required to give back, donate, etc (I obviously would prefer that). But when they use their fame to accuse and incite the masses, I have a problem with that. CK's voice and opinion is no better or worse than mine or yours, but its louder. He can influence change just by being famous moreso than your average citizen. That's actual power that he isn't responsibly wielding. Sitting during a national anthem and saying he wants change without any actual plan is so incredibly ignorant. He deserves the backlash he's getting because this clearly wasn't a well thought out plan (if change is actually what he wants).

Well, well put UConn. Bases covered.

More important news and let's get on it.

Anthony Weiner just flashed a third time. Carlos Danger is back.

about not standing, I deleted the thread

In comment 13093109 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

about not standing, I deleted the thread

I was wondering where that went. So wait, his statement said he couldn't stand by and not do something, but now he took that back? Haha, this whole thing is ridiculous since absolutely nothing good will come of it. I bet he, like Kaep, has no idea what he's even protesting.

In comment 13092758 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

Hell, I'm on a message board and if I go on a rant about fuckwads and the like, I almost always make sure that if I'm quoting any facts or stats that they are correct before I tell mudbear that he'a a fucking lunatic for thinking that OJ Anderson fumbled away the 2000 SB.

That's idiotic of Mudbear to write that. Rodney Hampton fumbled away the 2000 Super Bowl.

it is with the a government and the system in place that openly shown callous disregard for the lives of people of color past and present.

The funny part is so many people but he makes millions ....



3:30 min mark until 4:20 mark (Sums up most of the thinking here) - ( New Window )

In comment 13093195 MotownGIANTS said:

Quote:

it is with the a government and the system in place that openly shown callous disregard for the lives of people of color past and present. The funny part is so many people but he makes millions .... 3:30 min mark until 4:20 mark (Sums up most of the thinking here) - ( New Window )

What there's not enough affirmative action and ass kissing?

In comment 13093094 Montreal Man said:

Quote:

In comment 13092815 RC02XX said: Quote: In comment 13092808 Montreal Man said: [quote] In comment 13092695 Greg from LI said: Quote: But the worst is when people say "if you do that in front of me, I'll kick your ass." Sure fella...get yourself arrested and ruin your life just to save a piece of cloth. Rick Monday Big difference between someone saving a flag and someone espousing violence against those, who burn it. Come on, Jon. First, the post has so many grandparents I don't know who I'm responding to. But, whomever ... Who's espousing violence against those who burn it? Not me. My whole point is that it's a futile gesture that will do nothing to help the people he wants to help.

I know you aren't the one to threaten violence against someone burning the flag or not standing during our national anthem, but others have. And sadly, you acknowledged such a post on this thread as having been well written when my personal opinion is that it was an embarrassing post by someone who should know better. But it's your prerogative to support such positions.

talks about oppression by the government, abuses by cops - vaguely, Clinton and Trump, and then seems to forget he was fined for using a racial slur toward an opposing player in a football game.

almost every athlete I hear talk about this agrees it was his right to do it, almost all say they are sympathetic to the cause, but almost all (in fact maybe all) say they wouldn't have done it. they'd find a different way to protest if they were so inclined.

others like Brees or Jim Harbaugh or those who have close ties to law enforcement are more critical, not of his rights, or his cause, just of his forum.

there is a lot combating straw men on here, but I think it's an overwhelming majority (ON THIS BOARD) who understand the right he has for this protest and even most agree the issues should be addressed (though not all lumped into one big issue), but a lot of people feel the forum he chose isn't the best.

and who the F am I or anyone else to tell him what forum he can use to express himself? I'm no one, but just by the same right he has to protest i and others have a right to have opinions about it. that are not suggesting he didn't have a right to do it or that what he's protesting doesn't need to be addressed.

but his brother John was okay with Kaep's expressing his feelings through the sitting down..

In comment 13091307 David in LA said:

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.

he refused to be drafted into the U.S. Military, served his time in jail, debt served, but other than being a showman, I don't hold him in high regard.

In comment 13093322 sober297 said:

Quote:

In comment 13091307 David in LA said: Quote: . he refused to be drafted into the U.S. Military, served his time in jail, debt served, but other than being a showman, I don't hold him in high regard.

Ali never served time in prison

In comment 13091298 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 13091282 sober297 said: Quote: Kap just wants to bring attention to his conversion to Islam(at the request of his finance'). Anti-America, whitey hatin', no pork eatin' Islam. because it gives him a pulpit to be heard from. Nation of Islam is notoriously Anti- Law Enforcement. if he were playing Arena FB, no one would care. And this was necessary because?

In comment 13093231 RC02XX said:

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In comment 13093094 Montreal Man said: Quote: In comment 13092815 RC02XX said: Quote: In comment 13092808 Montreal Man said: [quote] In comment 13092695 Greg from LI said: Quote: But the worst is when people say "if you do that in front of me, I'll kick your ass." Sure fella...get yourself arrested and ruin your life just to save a piece of cloth. Rick Monday Big difference between someone saving a flag and someone espousing violence against those, who burn it. Come on, Jon. First, the post has so many grandparents I don't know who I'm responding to. But, whomever ... Who's espousing violence against those who burn it? Not me. My whole point is that it's a futile gesture that will do nothing to help the people he wants to help. I know you aren't the one to threaten violence against someone burning the flag or not standing during our national anthem, but others have. And sadly, you acknowledged such a post on this thread as having been well written when my personal opinion is that it was an embarrassing post by someone who should know better. But it's your prerogative to support such positions.

What post are you talking about?

It was a post by Marine One on the 27th at 12:06. Linked below. I just couldn't agree with the sentiments on many levels. A lot of sanctimony and threat of violence. Definitely not something I expect from otherwise a good poster from reading his previous posts.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13093322 sober297 said:

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In comment 13091307 David in LA said: Quote: . he refused to be drafted into the U.S. Military, served his time in jail, debt served, but other than being a showman, I don't hold him in high regard.

I dont think you are as sober as you think you are. Ali never served time.

to the letter from the San Francisco PD. If this guy actually gave a shit he'd meet them half way and try to atleast learn more about the other side of argument. He has a chance to turn around his image and also work towards some sort of mutual ground. We'll see how big of a man he is.

Jim Brown, supports Kaep

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Jim Brown - ( New Window )

he says he understands but wouldn't do it himself, then goes on to say he pays his taxes, doesn't want to open up the door to ISIS, and wants to keep the progress this country has made in tact. Its a far more reasonable stance.

of must-read posters, especially in regards to topics like this one.

In comment 13093228 LeonofKiev said:

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In comment 13093195 MotownGIANTS said: Quote: it is with the a government and the system in place that openly shown callous disregard for the lives of people of color past and present. The funny part is so many people but he makes millions .... 3:30 min mark until 4:20 mark (Sums up most of the thinking here) - ( New Window ) What there's not enough affirmative action and ass kissing?

All that affirmative action and ass kissing you speak of ... - ( New Window )

In comment 13093735 Mr. Bungle said:

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of must-read posters, especially in regards to topics like this one.

Hopefully it's not because I bring the laughs...:)

And I do go against the grain a lot (along with my favorite disgruntled Marine friend, Greg) it appears when it comes to these topics.

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What's your point?

Also, what's the point of you and Rocky continuing to use your little alias screen names when everyone knows who you are now?

should've given people a trigger warning or let them go to a safe space before taking a political stand. I think the guy's a blowhard but can't believe that this is somehow still national news. The worst is that after he gets cut or benched he'll blame this incident (rather than his terrible QB play) and the cycle of garbage news will repeat itself.

It's crazy how today's culture is so PC and anything not-PC just causes tons of outrage. I remember when Carlos Delgado used to not stand for the national anthem, and while some people were annoyed, it wasn't a 24/7 outrage machine. He ended up being reasonably popular on the Mets because it seemed like you were allowed to have non-PC views back then.

to the next thing we can all rally around being outraged over.

In comment 13093963 Heisenberg said:

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to the next thing we can all rally around being outraged over.

Yep, I personally am more outraged about ketchup on hot dogs.

In comment 13093945 Greg from LI said:

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What's your point? Also, what's the point of you and Rocky continuing to use your little alias screen names when everyone knows who you are now?

Huh? My name is AP and I live in Halfmoon. There is and never has been a secret about who I am. Doesn't everyone have some type of alias?

In comment 13093974 Big Al said:

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In comment 13093963 Heisenberg said: Quote: to the next thing we can all rally around being outraged over. Yep, I personally am more outraged about ketchup on hot dogs.

You, me and Harry Callahan
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13093950 Metnut said:

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should've given people a trigger warning or let them go to a safe space before taking a political stand. I think the guy's a blowhard but can't believe that this is somehow still national news. The worst is that after he gets cut or benched he'll blame this incident (rather than his terrible QB play) and the cycle of garbage news will repeat itself. It's crazy how today's culture is so PC and anything not-PC just causes tons of outrage. I remember when Carlos Delgado used to not stand for the national anthem, and while some people were annoyed, it wasn't a 24/7 outrage machine. He ended up being reasonably popular on the Mets because it seemed like you were allowed to have non-PC views back then.

I don't know. I remember when Marco Lokar was run out of Seton Hall in a similar situation. Why an Italian Christian needed to support a foreign war to the point of death threats, I have no idea.

And yeah, the Venn Diagram of people that decry the PC world we live in and are outraged by Kaep would be interesting to see.

his actions don't effect me personally, but its already got national headlines and whether you think its stupid or not, its impacting the NFL, sports in general, and society in general.

There's a whole lot of rhetoric being spewed from all walks of life, and a lot of it isn't effect, isn't bridging gaps, and is actually making things worse.

In comment 13093974 Big Al said:

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In comment 13093963 Heisenberg said: Quote: to the next thing we can all rally around being outraged over. Yep, I personally am more outraged about ketchup on hot dogs.

Because it's Red?

In comment 13094005 schabadoo said:

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In comment 13093950 Metnut said: Quote: should've given people a trigger warning or let them go to a safe space before taking a political stand. I think the guy's a blowhard but can't believe that this is somehow still national news. The worst is that after he gets cut or benched he'll blame this incident (rather than his terrible QB play) and the cycle of garbage news will repeat itself. It's crazy how today's culture is so PC and anything not-PC just causes tons of outrage. I remember when Carlos Delgado used to not stand for the national anthem, and while some people were annoyed, it wasn't a 24/7 outrage machine. He ended up being reasonably popular on the Mets because it seemed like you were allowed to have non-PC views back then. I don't know. I remember when Marco Lokar was run out of Seton Hall in a similar situation. Why an Italian Christian needed to support a foreign war to the point of death threats, I have no idea. And yeah, the Venn Diagram of people that decry the PC world we live in and are outraged by Kaep would be interesting to see.

Being outraged about that is not the same as trying to prohibit it as the pc crowd wishes to do about certain behaviors.

I would tell you to turn off Fox News but it's obviously too late for that.

comments
Fisher - ( New Window )

In comment 13094018 AP in Halfmoon said:

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I would tell you to turn off Fox News but it's obviously too late for that.

When you have nothing really to add, just say Fox News. Eight years ago it would have been Haliburton. Racist is always good,

In comment 13094018 AP in Halfmoon said:

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I would tell you to turn off Fox News but it's obviously too late for that.

You are an abysmal poster. You always just have to turn everything into an anti-conservative rant, don't you? We get it. You're a liberal and don't like Fox News. You are incapable of having an adult discussion without bringing your political biases into, so please, go away.

Seriously?

Holy crap

In comment 13094041 AP in Halfmoon said:

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Seriously?

It is a serious conversation about an inconsequential event.

Jerry Rice told him to stand so that should end it.

In comment 13094053 pjcas18 said:

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Quote: Jerry Rice✔ @JerryRice All lives matter. So much going on in this world today.Can we all just get along! Colin,I respect your stance but don't disrespect the Flag.

That's awesome, we need more of this. I hope more come out and challenge him. Also, the Jeff Fisher clip is great. I know most don't think too highly of him as a coach whether its his ability or ethics on the football field, but he's 100% correct, IMO about what standing on that field means.

clip was one of the first things I thought of. Football is a team game, so many cocaches (like Coughlin and Belichick) plan every single detail - how you stand and hold your helmet included). The part about being disrespectful to your teammates and your team should be a consideration before deciding this is your chosen forum of protest too.

Giants sideline before the Jets game:

that draw ire, I tend to feel like it is less about public outrage and more about media manipulation.

Look at the attention given to Ryan Lochte, mainly fueled because of initial media attention that couldn't wait for facts before fluffing off a bogus story. In the grand scheme of things, we spent 4 days discussing a lying swimmer, as if a regular swimmer is supposed to be known for truthfulness instead of athletic prowess. Meanwhile, we probably just hung gold medals on several athletes taking PED's and are effectively lying about it. Lochte's just bad at it.

The Kap situation to me is less about outrage over his actions and more about pointing out the hypocrisy of his take and the general ignorance he has regarding the meaning of oppression and historical symbols of oppression. And guess what? The Media has taken his half-assed protest and gave it attention. Instead of calling him out for having Castro on a t-shirt or asking him if he even knows what the fuck oppression means, they give him a podium as if he has something educated to say.

They do this time and again and continually look like fools. You'd think at some point it would stop.

In comment 13094053 pjcas18 said:

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Quote: Jerry Rice✔ @JerryRice All lives matter. So much going on in this world today.Can we all just get along! Colin,I respect your stance but don't disrespect the Flag.

Perfect

Blame the people who click on the links and sit through a news segment or multiple segments (See Fox News, Al) covering what should be a non-issue. As long as Americans want to see this crap, the media will cover it.

Jerry said it perfectly.

I agree. But the Media has gone from an entity that is supposed to be above the fray (even if it was just for appearances), to an entity that crafts their own version of events and vies for popularity.

In a perfect world, a scoop that ended up being false would result in penalties and reprimand. Accountability.

Instead, they promote and incite, often with premature and incomplete information, and even sometimes with plain old wrong information.

This would take on even more of a life of it's own if they had opened Sunday.

In comment 13094077 AP in Halfmoon said:

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Blame the people who click on the links and sit through a news segment or multiple segments (See Fox News, Al) covering what should be a non-issue. As long as Americans want to see this crap, the media will cover it.

You really are obsessive.

In comment 13094077 AP in Halfmoon said:

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Blame the people who click on the links and sit through a news segment or multiple segments (See Fox News, Al) covering what should be a non-issue. As long as Americans want to see this crap, the media will cover it.

Also see CNN with both Anderson Cooper and Don Lemon along with the PBS News Hour. And I'll bet MSNBC covered it as well.

In comment 13094146 njm said:

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In comment 13094077 AP in Halfmoon said: Quote: Blame the people who click on the links and sit through a news segment or multiple segments (See Fox News, Al) covering what should be a non-issue. As long as Americans want to see this crap, the media will cover it. Also see CNN with both Anderson Cooper and Don Lemon along with the PBS News Hour. And I'll bet MSNBC covered it as well.

Why wouldn't they? Look at the interest. This thread has nine pages.

In comment 13094202 schabadoo said:

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In comment 13094146 njm said: Quote: In comment 13094077 AP in Halfmoon said: Quote: Blame the people who click on the links and sit through a news segment or multiple segments (See Fox News, Al) covering what should be a non-issue. As long as Americans want to see this crap, the media will cover it. Also see CNN with both Anderson Cooper and Don Lemon along with the PBS News Hour. And I'll bet MSNBC covered it as well. Why wouldn't they? Look at the interest. This thread has nine pages.

But it contradicts the suggestion that this is being driven by Fox.

Cuba is not, as it turns out, a particularly hospitable place for its black citizens. Do Cuban lives matter?


Link - ( New Window )

gets it right, IMO.


Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Kaepernick - ( New Window )

putting himself out there while playing in the NFL for a popular franchise. Even if I don't agree with it, if you feel some type of then do something about it. Kaep started a conversation, which is all he was doing.

Harrison is a fucking idiot.

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but respect him for his motivation.

In comment 13094262 Jay in Toronto said:

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gets it right, IMO. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Kaepernick - ( New Window )

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Kaepernick’s choice not to stand during the national anthem could create a public backlash that might cost him millions in future endorsements and affect his value as a player on his team, reducing salary earnings or even jeopardizing his job. If team ticket sales seriously dipped as a result, he would pay for his stance.

Montana thinks Kaep is risking nothing lol, I guess Montana knows more than Kareem about this type of stuff.

In comment 13094262 Jay in Toronto said:

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gets it right, IMO. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Kaepernick - ( New Window )

Not bad, but he artfully ignores one aspect of this. Many people are not threatening Kaepernick nor denying his right to sit, but believe his comment that there is no difference between the two flags is wrong and/or ignorant.

...

In comment 13094409 njm said:

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In comment 13094262 Jay in Toronto said: Quote: gets it right, IMO. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Kaepernick - ( New Window ) Not bad, but he artfully ignores one aspect of this. Many people are not threatening Kaepernick nor denying his right to sit, but believe his comment that there is no difference between the two flags is wrong and/or ignorant.

There are pockets of people that are asking him to get of the country, and a few posters were certainly behaving combative over this. Again, I only see one side getting REALLY angry over someone choosing to sit down.

In comment 13094534 David in LA said:

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In comment 13094409 njm said: Quote: In comment 13094262 Jay in Toronto said: Quote: gets it right, IMO. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Kaepernick - ( New Window ) Not bad, but he artfully ignores one aspect of this. Many people are not threatening Kaepernick nor denying his right to sit, but believe his comment that there is no difference between the two flags is wrong and/or ignorant. There are pockets of people that are asking him to get of the country, and a few posters were certainly behaving combative over this. Again, I only see one side getting REALLY angry over someone choosing to sit down.

OF COURSE only one side gets angry. Any time an issue comes up that's the case. Next time, with a different issue, it may be the OTHER side acting the same way.

are all the active and former military making themselves heard through twitter, people who don't usually get their voices heard, but get named in all sorts of causes.

the #VeteransForKapernick thing is really taking off. It's a fun read.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/VeteransForKaepernick?src=hash

earlier

There have been multiple threads in the past about free speech controversies where BBI lefties have posted this cartoon:



Yet they don't seem to believe it applies to Colin Kaepernick.

If there's one thing I've learned in recent years, it's how flexible and malleable virtually everyone's principles are. I do not exclude myself from that observation, although I believe that I'm trying to avoid it now that I'm more aware of how much I do it.

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If there's one thing I've learned in recent years, it's how flexible and malleable virtually everyone's principles are. I do not exclude myself from that observation, although I believe that I'm trying to avoid it now that I'm more aware of how much I do it.

Agreed. To combat being malleable, I try to have one rule when events happen - to be patient enough to gather facts or information that will provide as much completeness to a story.

I will say that one reason I'm aggressive against other's takes on things is because many people seem to violate a very important rule - the rule of patience.

Taking a stand, presuming guilt or innocence, calling somebody a bust, thinking somebody needs to be fired, wanting immediate results or immediate impacts all happens by a slew of people who react early and often, even before situations play out. And then they will stand by the initial reaction - facts be damned.

this site would have closed down years ago

In comment 13095974 pjcas18 said:

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Quote: Hines Ward Yesterday at 10:21am · I'm not down on Kaepernick promoting his cause or the timing of it. I respect that. But I don't agree with the method he chose. Our national anthem stands for our freedom for all Americans regardless of color. It symbolizes the very reason Kaepernick is able to speak his mind and exercise his first amendment rights. If you want to make a point or take a stand, go straight after the root of that cause. Don't disrespect the whole country or the organization that's paying you millions of dollars to play football. Hines

+1.

Aren't there more pressing issues out there today? Talk about a slow news day.

In comment 13096107 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Quote: If there's one thing I've learned in recent years, it's how flexible and malleable virtually everyone's principles are. I do not exclude myself from that observation, although I believe that I'm trying to avoid it now that I'm more aware of how much I do it. Agreed. To combat being malleable, I try to have one rule when events happen - to be patient enough to gather facts or information that will provide as much completeness to a story. I will say that one reason I'm aggressive against other's takes on things is because many people seem to violate a very important rule - the rule of patience. Taking a stand, presuming guilt or innocence, calling somebody a bust, thinking somebody needs to be fired, wanting immediate results or immediate impacts all happens by a slew of people who react early and often, even before situations play out. And then they will stand by the initial reaction - facts be damned.

And what I find here is that those of us who generally like to wait until we get facts are pounced on by the mob as being defenders of evil.

In comment 13096125 RC02XX said:

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Aren't there more pressing issues out there today? Talk about a slow news day.

Must be a slow news week, because I don't know why it was still a story a few days ago.

In comment 13096129 Big Al said:

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In comment 13096107 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Quote: If there's one thing I've learned in recent years, it's how flexible and malleable virtually everyone's principles are. I do not exclude myself from that observation, although I believe that I'm trying to avoid it now that I'm more aware of how much I do it. Agreed. To combat being malleable, I try to have one rule when events happen - to be patient enough to gather facts or information that will provide as much completeness to a story. I will say that one reason I'm aggressive against other's takes on things is because many people seem to violate a very important rule - the rule of patience. Taking a stand, presuming guilt or innocence, calling somebody a bust, thinking somebody needs to be fired, wanting immediate results or immediate impacts all happens by a slew of people who react early and often, even before situations play out. And then they will stand by the initial reaction - facts be damned. And what I find here is that those of us who generally like to wait until we get facts are pounced on by the mob as being defenders of evil.

I assume you're referring to the ignorant?