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The national anthem is and always will be a special part of the pre-game ceremony,” the team said in a statement issued to PFT. “It is an opportunity to honor our country and reflect on the great liberties we are afforded as its citizens. In respecting such American principles as freedom of religion and freedom of expression, we recognize the right of an individual to choose to participate, or not, in our celebration of the national anthem.” It’s unclear why Kaepernick sat. However, Kaepernick retweeted the following message on Thursday, which accompanied images of the American and Confederate flags: “The fact that you really believe that there is difference in these flags means that your [sic] ignoring history.” At a time when NFL players are criticized for not speaking out on social issues, Kaepernick has provided a very significant and conspicuous gesture. As the team noted, it’s his right to do so. But given that Kaepernick opted to make a stand by sitting during the traditional pregame honoring of the country and its flag — which is so tightly woven into the DNA of the NFL — there surely will be a reaction. |
The problem is not that CK has an opinion on something. (One that I happen to sympathize with.) It's that he's using the NFL as his bully pulpit to peddle it in a puerile way.
And I totally agree with those who begrudge famous people for pushing politics/issues/etc. from a place of ignorance or at least a place of false esteem. Like that weasel Jenny McCarthy with her pro-communicable-debilitating-disease activism borne out of her showing her plastic fun bags in magazines.
The NFL doesn't exist so that players can exercise their right to protest in the middle of their private events. And, in fact, the constitution has no bearing on the major issues people have with this. So, all that first amendment masturbation can fuck off.
He doesn't even have a right to be in the stadium at all. You and I can't go to Metlife and burn a flag at the fifty yard line during halftime. It's armchair politics from the bench. Luckily, he won't have to move come game time...
You had me at puerile..😎
The problem is not that CK has an opinion on something. (One that I happen to sympathize with.) It's that he's using the NFL as his bully pulpit to peddle it in a puerile way.
And I totally agree with those who begrudge famous people for pushing politics/issues/etc. from a place of ignorance or at least a place of false esteem. Like that weasel Jenny McCarthy with her pro-communicable-debilitating-disease activism borne out of her showing her plastic fun bags in magazines.
The NFL doesn't exist so that players can exercise their right to protest in the middle of their private events. And, in fact, the constitution has no bearing on the major issues people have with this. So, all that first amendment masturbation can fuck off.
He doesn't even have a right to be in the stadium at all. You and I can't go to Metlife and burn a flag at the fifty yard line during halftime. It's armchair politics from the bench. Luckily, he won't have to move come game time...
Says who? I mean, an entire section of the stadium can stay seated and not stand for the national anthem, and nothing can be done about them. So why doesn't this guy have the right to be at the stadium? Unless you are referring to him sucking as a QB, which I won't disagree with you on.
You're really not separating yourself from everyone else, who want to run him out of town for the way he protested, no matter how much you think your views are different. And while you're correct about the First Amendment not mattering in this situation since it's not the government he has to worry about, unless the NFL or his team forbids him to do so, he hasn't broken any league/team policies on this matter, so he hasn't done anything wrong.
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But as I'm more of a douchebag type than those who've taken this tact I'll put it differently.
The problem is not that CK has an opinion on something. (One that I happen to sympathize with.) It's that he's using the NFL as his bully pulpit to peddle it in a puerile way.
And I totally agree with those who begrudge famous people for pushing politics/issues/etc. from a place of ignorance or at least a place of false esteem. Like that weasel Jenny McCarthy with her pro-communicable-debilitating-disease activism borne out of her showing her plastic fun bags in magazines.
The NFL doesn't exist so that players can exercise their right to protest in the middle of their private events. And, in fact, the constitution has no bearing on the major issues people have with this. So, all that first amendment masturbation can fuck off.
He doesn't even have a right to be in the stadium at all. You and I can't go to Metlife and burn a flag at the fifty yard line during halftime. It's armchair politics from the bench. Luckily, he won't have to move come game time...
Says who? I mean, an entire section of the stadium can stay seated and not stand for the national anthem, and nothing can be done about them. So why doesn't this guy have the right to be at the stadium? Unless you are referring to him sucking as a QB, which I won't disagree with you on.
You're really not separating yourself from everyone else, who want to run him out of town for the way he protested, no matter how much you think your views are different. And while you're correct about the First Amendment not mattering in this situation since it's not the government he has to worry about, unless the NFL or his team forbids him to do so, he hasn't broken any league/team policies on this matter, so he hasn't done anything wrong.
Stupid(imo) does not have to be wrong..
I agree. However, being stupid doesn't mean you aren't allowed to do things that does not violate any laws, policies, regulations, rules, etc. No matter what peoples' views and opinions about Kaepernick's actions are regarding this silent protest, he has every bit of right (legally and according to NFL and his team) to keep doing it.
Private engagements aren't included in that, as you acknowledged. That was the point...
My point is... who gives a shit? It's a football player talking about politics.
I think he shouldn't use the actual NFL games as a platform. I think that's murky waters.
Obviously, the owners think it's bad business.
I want football with my football and politics with my politics.
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Stupid(imo) does not have to be wrong..
I agree. However, being stupid doesn't mean you aren't allowed to do things that does not violate any laws, policies, regulations, rules, etc. No matter what peoples' views and opinions about Kaepernick's actions are regarding this silent protest, he has every bit of right (legally and according to NFL and his team) to keep doing it.
Now you're contradicting yourself. He doesn't have the RIGHT to protest AND play. The owners have the final say. Playing football isn't a right...
He can say and do what he wants. He's not immune to retribution from the owners.
Stupid(imo) does not have to be wrong..
BB'56 ... I wouldn't call what he did stupid or wrong (or right, for that matter.) To me, what seems to have people in an uproar has more to do with going against the grain of our accepted culture, which is to stand during the anthem. It's what most of us have grown up doing and understanding and when it's "violated" we get our noses out of joint. We can apply words like "unseemly," "inappropriate," "unacceptable," "unsuitable," "unfitting," etc. None of those words have anything to do with free speech. They just describe the kind of feelings and thoughts Kap generated. What he did is like a guy wearing a pink suit at a funeral. Not right or wrong -- you just don't do it.
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Stupid(imo) does not have to be wrong..
BB'56 ... I wouldn't call what he did stupid or wrong (or right, for that matter.) To me, what seems to have people in an uproar has more to do with going against the grain of our accepted culture, which is to stand during the anthem. It's what most of us have grown up doing and understanding and when it's "violated" we get our noses out of joint. We can apply words like "unseemly," "inappropriate," "unacceptable," "unsuitable," "unfitting," etc. None of those words have anything to do with free speech. They just describe the kind of feelings and thoughts Kap generated. What he did is like a guy wearing a pink suit at a funeral. Not right or wrong -- you just don't do it.
Fair enough
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In comment 13097552 Big Blue '56 said:
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Stupid(imo) does not have to be wrong..
BB'56 ... I wouldn't call what he did stupid or wrong (or right, for that matter.) To me, what seems to have people in an uproar has more to do with going against the grain of our accepted culture, which is to stand during the anthem. It's what most of us have grown up doing and understanding and when it's "violated" we get our noses out of joint. We can apply words like "unseemly," "inappropriate," "unacceptable," "unsuitable," "unfitting," etc. None of those words have anything to do with free speech. They just describe the kind of feelings and thoughts Kap generated. What he did is like a guy wearing a pink suit at a funeral. Not right or wrong -- you just don't do it.
Fair enough
He's come a long way since applauding threats of assault earlier in this thread, hasn't he...
TV footage of last Friday’s game between the Packers and 49ers shows plainly that Kaepernick’s helmet still had a decal of the flag that he has decided not to honor. It’s unknown whether he considered removing it then, or whether he’s considering removing it for Thursday night’s game.
It’s a fair question to ponder, especially in light of the image making the rounds of Kaepernick wearing socks at practice earlier this month showing pigs in police hats. It’s a much broader attack on law enforcement than his deliberate, thoughtful remarks about the topic from Sunday, and it invites plenty of speculation about how else he’ll go about making his point.
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In comment 13097552 Big Blue '56 said:
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Stupid(imo) does not have to be wrong..
I agree. However, being stupid doesn't mean you aren't allowed to do things that does not violate any laws, policies, regulations, rules, etc. No matter what peoples' views and opinions about Kaepernick's actions are regarding this silent protest, he has every bit of right (legally and according to NFL and his team) to keep doing it.
Now you're contradicting yourself. He doesn't have the RIGHT to protest AND play. The owners have the final say. Playing football isn't a right...
He can say and do what he wants. He's not immune to retribution from the owners.
You are correct in that he doesn't have the RIGHT to play the game (it's at the behest of the NFL and the team). However, he has every right to protest (even in the medium of a football game) while still playing as long as the NFL and his team are ok with it. And while things may change in the near future, he hasn't been told not to protest. So he does in fact have every right to protest while still playing.
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In comment 13097589 Montreal Man said:
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In comment 13097552 Big Blue '56 said:
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Stupid(imo) does not have to be wrong..
BB'56 ... I wouldn't call what he did stupid or wrong (or right, for that matter.) To me, what seems to have people in an uproar has more to do with going against the grain of our accepted culture, which is to stand during the anthem. It's what most of us have grown up doing and understanding and when it's "violated" we get our noses out of joint. We can apply words like "unseemly," "inappropriate," "unacceptable," "unsuitable," "unfitting," etc. None of those words have anything to do with free speech. They just describe the kind of feelings and thoughts Kap generated. What he did is like a guy wearing a pink suit at a funeral. Not right or wrong -- you just don't do it.
Fair enough
He's come a long way since applauding threats of assault earlier in this thread, hasn't he...
Haha...I noticed that too.
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TV footage of last Friday’s game between the Packers and 49ers shows plainly that Kaepernick’s helmet still had a decal of the flag that he has decided not to honor. It’s unknown whether he considered removing it then, or whether he’s considering removing it for Thursday night’s game.
It’s a fair question to ponder, especially in light of the image making the rounds of Kaepernick wearing socks at practice earlier this month showing pigs in police hats. It’s a much broader attack on law enforcement than his deliberate, thoughtful remarks about the topic from Sunday, and it invites plenty of speculation about how else he’ll go about making his point.
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Will Kaep remove the flag decal from his helmet tonight? Isn't this exciting?
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TV footage of last Friday’s game between the Packers and 49ers shows plainly that Kaepernick’s helmet still had a decal of the flag that he has decided not to honor. It’s unknown whether he considered removing it then, or whether he’s considering removing it for Thursday night’s game.
It’s a fair question to ponder, especially in light of the image making the rounds of Kaepernick wearing socks at practice earlier this month showing pigs in police hats. It’s a much broader attack on law enforcement than his deliberate, thoughtful remarks about the topic from Sunday, and it invites plenty of speculation about how else he’ll go about making his point.
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That would be a really interesting one, since I'm assuming that the flag decal is part of the uniform. Removing it might put him in violation of the nfl's uniform code and they're pretty rigid about enforcement and actual fines. There would be absolutely no gray area here for him.
31, good point. We know how petty they can be with uniform codes
Pfffft. Come on now. I mean, he probably has a very small sock collection and maybe he doesn't even know what the pig in a police hat represents? Ever think of that? Can't kill a guy for the random socks he decides to wear.
---David in LA
It isn't about the socks or the shirt - it is about the lack of self awareness in both crafting his message and in proudly sporting Castro.
I happen to think guys like CK have far too much power than their worth (i posted on this much earlier in the thread) and that because of it he should really be setting an example. He can take the SFPD's offer, go visit with their recruit class, go talk to their police chief, go visit inner city schools alongside a police officer and just talk about everyday problems. Instead he's inciting division, and nothing good will come of it. He can be doing so much more and he simply isn't (atleast not that I am aware of) and that's sad.
Players aren’t required to stand for the national anthem. However, they are required to display the American flag on their helmets.
League spokesman Brian McCarthy tells PFT that players are not permitted to remove the flag decal that appears on the back of every player’s helmet.
Ok, carry on..
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but there are a group of posters that are extremely vocal about this, that 10 times out of 10 have been looking for bullshit qualifiers to make the police brutality cases out to be illegitimate because of a variety of reasons that don't justify the outcomes. They even preface it with acknowledgement of the issues, but then buries their head in the sand when it's time to discuss the issues. No spokesperson is going to be perfect, especially pro athletes. IMO people don't want to acknowledge how ugly things are, because it doesn't directly affect them, so it's more difficult to really empathize with someone else's grievance.
And some vice versa. The police are always wrong no matter what facts come out.
The police should be held to a higher standard than normal civilians, and I want things to be better. I just choose not to shut off my ears to other people's complaints about how bad things are, over shirts and socks.
That is the argument, not his stance on police brutality which is legitimate.
If he does, he gets in trouble as he would knowingly be breaking NFL rules, as silly as some of them might be
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In comment 13097959 David in LA said:
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but there are a group of posters that are extremely vocal about this, that 10 times out of 10 have been looking for bullshit qualifiers to make the police brutality cases out to be illegitimate because of a variety of reasons that don't justify the outcomes. They even preface it with acknowledgement of the issues, but then buries their head in the sand when it's time to discuss the issues. No spokesperson is going to be perfect, especially pro athletes. IMO people don't want to acknowledge how ugly things are, because it doesn't directly affect them, so it's more difficult to really empathize with someone else's grievance.
And some vice versa. The police are always wrong no matter what facts come out.
The police should be held to a higher standard than normal civilians, and I want things to be better. I just choose not to shut off my ears to other people's complaints about how bad things are, over shirts and socks.
That is the argument, not his stance on police brutality which is legitimate.
UConn, people are giving more attention to the tertiary crap, then they are to the actual reason he's sitting. Sure, there are better, more effective avenues to send his message, but he's still bringing it attention.
Why do you keep calling things tertiary? The thing that is most unclear is the primary thing - his message.
Why do you keep calling things tertiary? The thing that is most unclear is the primary thing - his message.
Improvement in how the police are recruited, trained, and evaluated. That seems to be a meat of his argument, and I've pointed that out for you.
And you are a better man than I to figure out what his message is. I thought it was about oppressing minorities
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Click on the link above. Obviously, he's going to wear a pair of socks with cops depicted as pigs. Point made!
What the hell does CK know about the training that goes into being a policeman? Or the hiring process? Perhaps if he'd take the SFPD up on their offer, he'd be more in tune with the risks that these policemen deal with on a daily basis. Some of them have been trigger happy. Sometimes a minority is on the losing end and in any case, these guys must be held accountable. If he wants to use accountability as his crying call, fine, but he seems to be moving the goal posts each and every day. Is it oppression of minorities in the entire country? Is it not holding BAD policemen accountable? Is it poor training? Poor hiring practices? He knows absolutely nothing about training and hiring practices. And you can blow off the shirt and socks all you want. It's hard to take a guys message seriously when he keeps changing his cause and wears a Castro shirt and pig wearing police hat socks. It all just seems so forced and fake on his part.
We all know there are bad cops out there doing bad things. But he has botched this entire thing and it's well wishing everyone's right to call him out on it. It just doesn't come across as sincere to me. Which is a shame, because we do have to address the issues.
That said, I would love to know how thorough psyche evaluations are in assessing their qualifications for a life or death job..I'm concerned far more about emotional/mental states than I am the physical..
And you are a better man than I to figure out what his message is. I thought it was about oppressing minorities
How about 21 days without shooting a minority? Shooting whites is likely ok in his book, since this is about oppressing minorities.
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what metric of improvement gets him to stop protesting. No police shootings for 21 days?
And you are a better man than I to figure out what his message is. I thought it was about oppressing minorities
How about 21 days without shooting a minority? Shooting whites is likely ok in his book, since this is about oppressing minorities.
Really? Presumptuous comments like this is why race discussions go nowhere. It's the same logic that equates BLM to white people hate groups.
And for the millionth time on this thread, you completely miss the point. My post had zero to do with race relations and everything to do with CK continuously moving the goal posts, based on public outcry and media attention. Police training and hiring practices are completely separate issues than this country oppressing minorities. So I simply put them both together, in jest, but leave it to you to cherry pick posts to find something to fit your agenda. Ive wasted enough time on this thread. Your mind is made up and nothing any of us say will change that. Those of us that think that he has botched this thing from the start will continue to get accused of not knowing there is a police brutality issue and we will also get accused of ignoring the racial divide. We've all acknowledged these issues, yet somehow you keep insinuating that's the brunt of our arguments.
And for the millionth time on this thread, you completely miss the point. My post had zero to do with race relations and everything to do with CK continuously moving the goal posts, based on public outcry and media attention. Police training and hiring practices are completely separate issues than this country oppressing minorities. So I simply put them both together, in jest, but leave it to you to cherry pick posts to find something to fit your agenda. Ive wasted enough time on this thread. Your mind is made up and nothing any of us say will change that. Those of us that think that he has botched this thing from the start will continue to get accused of not knowing there is a police brutality issue and we will also get accused of ignoring the racial divide. We've all acknowledged these issues, yet somehow you keep insinuating that's the brunt of our arguments.
I didn't say you're the reason, holy fuck. Comments like "I bet he's ok with cops killing a black guy" is the type of bullshit equivalency that doesn't help these type of conversations. YOu keep talking about moving goalposts, but to me, it seems like it's the people criticizing CK that are moving goalposts.
-Protests should be peaceful not violent.
-CK sits down for national anthem, in non violent protest outrage **TRIGGERED** Kick his ass! Find another country! His parents are white, what does he know about oppression?
-People wish celebrities would do more with their platform to make a stand on social issues.
-CK makes a stand by sitting, outrage **TRIGGERED** Not smart enough, not eloquent enough, not clear enough in his message, etc.
My point being is that there is probably no such thing as a true spokesperson in your eyes, or no method of delivery that is good enough, because they will always be picked apart. Just like the police threads, every victim has some jackass sticking up for the cops, no matter what.