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The national anthem is and always will be a special part of the pre-game ceremony,” the team said in a statement issued to PFT. “It is an opportunity to honor our country and reflect on the great liberties we are afforded as its citizens. In respecting such American principles as freedom of religion and freedom of expression, we recognize the right of an individual to choose to participate, or not, in our celebration of the national anthem.” It’s unclear why Kaepernick sat. However, Kaepernick retweeted the following message on Thursday, which accompanied images of the American and Confederate flags: “The fact that you really believe that there is difference in these flags means that your [sic] ignoring history.” At a time when NFL players are criticized for not speaking out on social issues, Kaepernick has provided a very significant and conspicuous gesture. As the team noted, it’s his right to do so. But given that Kaepernick opted to make a stand by sitting during the traditional pregame honoring of the country and its flag — which is so tightly woven into the DNA of the NFL — there surely will be a reaction. |
How about Kap grabs a gun and stands a post somewhere. I would think that would be more patriotic Bill...
Jimmy, I usually agree with virtually all of your posts. But I have to disagree regarding my views on what differentiates America from the majority of the rest of the world. The right to hold views - and take positions - others might find abhorrent. It is what separates us from police states. In my mind, it is the single most important feature that makes America the great country she is.
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'Blackish'.
That's an awful joke, come on.
Why do you think I'm joking?
You don't watch the show?
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'Blackish'.
That's an awful joke, come on.
I think he's being serious. Do you watch the show, they sometimes take current event social issues and incorporate them into the comedy, very well done in some cases.
I can't think of a group more revolting than the KKK. Yet I would protest vigorously for the right of the KKK to march publicly down every street in America. I'd do that because that is what makes my country great. It is only when we silence the rights of others to protest that we better start worrying about our democracy. Because your voice is likely to be the next one silenced.
+1
I have absolutely no problem with what KP did
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Leftist agrees with leftist, film at 11
Did I say I agreed with him? I said I see no problem with protesting. And I don't. He's allowed to do it. Whether you or I or anyone else likes it or not. I don't appreciate you putting what you think I am or am not on me.
If you think people died for a flag rather than the rights and freedoms that it represents, that is called irony.
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will be over and done too quick as well.
How about Kap grabs a gun and stands a post somewhere. I would think that would be more patriotic Bill...
Jimmy, I usually agree with virtually all of your posts. But I have to disagree regarding my views on what differentiates America from the majority of the rest of the world. The right to hold views - and take positions - others might find abhorrent. It is what separates us from police states. In my mind, it is the single most important feature that makes America the great country she is.
I agree that our right to protest is a incredibly important right. No debate from me as you and are aligned on that.
I just find it easy to find the "fake in the crowd" who prefers simple grandstanding gestures to be a protest versus a the guy who is willing to meaningfully stand by what he believes.
Appreciate your candor...
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In comment 13088699 MOOPS said:
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'Blackish'.
That's an awful joke, come on.
Why do you think I'm joking?
You don't watch the show?
I've seen a few episodes, but I don't watch network tv much anymore. Just seemed to be a bit tongue and cheekish of a comment.
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Leftist agrees with leftist, film at 11
Political correctness hypocrisy. Not breaking.
I view disrespecting the flag and/or the National Anthem as not protesting actions or policies the government or police or even the justice system, but disrespectful to the men and women in uniform.
If that's your goal (colloquially your), I don't get it.
I just find it so conflicted the NFL allows protests like "Hands up Don't Shoot" for the Rams, Beyonce at the SB, they don't require you to stand for the National Anthem which is a protest I guess in Kaepernick's case against the police, but you want to put a decal on your helmet with the arm and arm logo for the citizens and police in Dallas - they reject it.
Sounds like they limit free speech when it's not consistent with their goals.
I view disrespecting the flag and/or the National Anthem as not protesting actions or policies the government or police or even the justice system, but disrespectful to the men and women in uniform.
If that's your goal (colloquially your), I don't get it.
I just find it so conflicted the NFL allows protests like "Hands up Don't Shoot" for the Rams, Beyonce at the SB, they don't require you to stand for the National Anthem which is a protest I guess in Kaepernick's case against the police, but you want to put a decal on your helmet with the arm and arm logo for the citizens and police in Dallas - they reject it.
Sounds like they limit free speech when it's not consistent with their goals.
The only one who's required to do anything in your examples is the person being forced to stand up.
To me, the national anthem is supposed to represent what this country stands for. It's spirit. That is not only the military.
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but I view the National Anthem and the flag not as support for the police or the government, but for the soldiers who have sacrificed their lives to provide the freedoms and liberty we all enjoy today.
I view disrespecting the flag and/or the National Anthem as not protesting actions or policies the government or police or even the justice system, but disrespectful to the men and women in uniform.
If that's your goal (colloquially your), I don't get it.
I just find it so conflicted the NFL allows protests like "Hands up Don't Shoot" for the Rams, Beyonce at the SB, they don't require you to stand for the National Anthem which is a protest I guess in Kaepernick's case against the police, but you want to put a decal on your helmet with the arm and arm logo for the citizens and police in Dallas - they reject it.
Sounds like they limit free speech when it's not consistent with their goals.
The only one who's required to do anything in your examples is the person being forced to stand up.
To me, the national anthem is supposed to represent what this country stands for. It's spirit. That is not only the military.
Required yes. No one is required to show respect.
Did you ever go to a sporting event "Please stand up and remove your hats for the singing of the National Anthem"
Almost everyone does. but when a person on a pulpit doesn't it's meaningful. to me.
but I do respect his choice, I just find his reasoning suspect. And yes, hypocritical.
What I don't want to ever hear from him is a complaint one day how he is losing out on something because of backlash to his actions. He believes in it enough to do it then own it and every negative that comes a along with it. When he misses out on some endorsement or gets cut as soon as his skills hint at diminishing don't cry about it.
I view disrespecting the flag and/or the National Anthem as not protesting actions or policies the government or police or even the justice system, but disrespectful to the men and women in uniform.
I don't associate the American flag or national anthem with soldiers unless it is the Revolutionary War. But, if I did associate those symbols with soldiers dying to protect those freedoms, then my protecting those freedoms is the greatest way I can think of to honor those who died for those very freedoms.
And my point is that I can't think of a greater way to illustrate the freedom of America than for American's to stand up for the rights of protesters to protest (and especially to stand up for protesters who espouse something we may not agree with). It isn't the protester who is necessarily being patriotic.
A group of Nazis marching down main street in a small Illinois town isn't something most Americans would agree with or favor. Certainly the Nazis aren't being patriotic. But get a few hundred Americans to protest for the rights of the Nazis to march - or for them to burn the flag - all the while hating Nazis - now THAT is being patriotic - and would be a great honor to those who sacrificed their lives to protect those rights.
What I don't want to ever hear from him is a complaint one day how he is losing out on something because of backlash to his actions. He believes in it enough to do it then own it and every negative that comes a along with it. When he misses out on some endorsement or gets cut as soon as his skills hint at diminishing don't cry about it.
he already said if he loses his NFL career or endorsements over it then he knows he was right.
I think NFL endorsements should be more about on-field and marketability so he should lose endorsements as a backup QB, but he's set it up now to make it about race.
Im going to periodically repost this gem, until something even dumber comes up on this thread.
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but it is his right to do it.
What I don't want to ever hear from him is a complaint one day how he is losing out on something because of backlash to his actions. He believes in it enough to do it then own it and every negative that comes a along with it. When he misses out on some endorsement or gets cut as soon as his skills hint at diminishing don't cry about it.
he already said if he loses his NFL career or endorsements over it then he knows he was right.
I think NFL endorsements should be more about on-field and marketability so he should lose endorsements as a backup QB, but he's set it up now to make it about race.
You think endorsements should be more about on-field and marketability, but marketability also encompasses off the field. Seems like this topic has you really fired up.
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but I view the National Anthem and the flag not as support for the police or the government, but for the soldiers who have sacrificed their lives to provide the freedoms and liberty we all enjoy today.
I view disrespecting the flag and/or the National Anthem as not protesting actions or policies the government or police or even the justice system, but disrespectful to the men and women in uniform.
I don't associate the American flag or national anthem with soldiers unless it is the Revolutionary War. But, if I did associate those symbols with soldiers dying to protect those freedoms, then my protecting those freedoms is the greatest way I can think of to honor those who died for those very freedoms.
And my point is that I can't think of a greater way to illustrate the freedom of America than for American's to stand up for the rights of protesters to protest (and especially to stand up for protesters who espouse something we may not agree with). It isn't the protester who is necessarily being patriotic.
A group of Nazis marching down main street in a small Illinois town isn't something most Americans would agree with or favor. Certainly the Nazis aren't being patriotic. But get a few hundred Americans to protest for the rights of the Nazis to march - or for them to burn the flag - all the while hating Nazis - now THAT is being patriotic - and would be a great honor to those who sacrificed their lives to protect those rights.
I agree with you almost completely other than the flag, but that's just my personal opinion.
but there's no better example of this than Westboro Baptist Church or other hate groups protesting military funerals and then bikers or veterans blocking out the protests of the Westboro Baptist Church so families can bury their deceased in privacy.
First Amendment in action.
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In comment 13088830 steve in ky said:
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but it is his right to do it.
What I don't want to ever hear from him is a complaint one day how he is losing out on something because of backlash to his actions. He believes in it enough to do it then own it and every negative that comes a along with it. When he misses out on some endorsement or gets cut as soon as his skills hint at diminishing don't cry about it.
he already said if he loses his NFL career or endorsements over it then he knows he was right.
I think NFL endorsements should be more about on-field and marketability so he should lose endorsements as a backup QB, but he's set it up now to make it about race.
You think endorsements should be more about on-field and marketability, but marketability also encompasses off the field. Seems like this topic has you really fired up.
Not fire up, but bored. Any time you make yourself controversial, you impact your marketability. Not sure how that's contrary to what I said.
if you're good enough on-field (like Peyton Manning or LT) your off-field issues don't impact your marketability as much.
Tell that to Tark10.
He can't even beat out Gabbert for the starting gig...
Bless you
The idea that it is somehow laudable to threaten violence on those that choose to utilize those freedoms is disturbing, and Paulie's hot take as a veteran of the Great Polish War of '80 is unsurprising.
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but it is his right to do it.
What I don't want to ever hear from him is a complaint one day how he is losing out on something because of backlash to his actions. He believes in it enough to do it then own it and every negative that comes a along with it. When he misses out on some endorsement or gets cut as soon as his skills hint at diminishing don't cry about it.
he already said if he loses his NFL career or endorsements over it then he knows he was right.
I think NFL endorsements should be more about on-field and marketability so he should lose endorsements as a backup QB, but he's set it up now to make it about race.
The idea that it is somehow laudable to threaten violence on those that choose to utilize those freedoms is disturbing, and Paulie's hot take as a veteran of the Great Polish War of '80 is unsurprising.
Agree with the second part completely, but many of those people who die for exactly what you say in the first part consider the piece of cloth symbolic of those things.
I have a rich military history in my family, in fact I'm the first generation to NOT serve so it's certainly possible I feel a little guilt or over-sensitivity because of that, but they all take disrespecting the flag personally and as an affront to their service.
The WWII veterans in my family definitely different than my father who is a Vietnam veteran and didn't receive a heroes welcome like other wars, but it's still the same sentiment among most of my family which had a big influence on my values.
I wouldn't suggest it's not someone's right to protest in any legal manner, including burning the flag, but how people legally react to that protest is also their right.
Practically speaking, however, no one's service is diminished by what happens to a piece of cloth...the anger comes from the perception of the beliefs of the person behind the action.
But that's something I learned the hard way over time belonging to and striving for better with flawed things. Myself prime amongst them.
Like yet, when I was younger I was much more sure protest was standing up.
It's good to stand up. Feels righteous. Judges others in the process...always feels good for awhile. It's a lot tougher to consider how to do the right thing and be quietly effective at moving the needle forward.
Imho
Practically speaking, however, no one's service is diminished by what happens to a piece of cloth...the anger comes from the perception of the beliefs of the person behind the action.
No argument from me with that. I do the last part of your last sentence is human nature though and explains a lot of behavior.
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That many people conflate their service or their love of country with the treatment of the flag - symbols have power, which is why we argue over the display of a swastika or the stars and bars.
Practically speaking, however, no one's service is diminished by what happens to a piece of cloth...the anger comes from the perception of the beliefs of the person behind the action.
No argument from me with that. I do the last part of your last sentence is human nature though and explains a lot of behavior.
I do *think* the last part...
100% supported Ali back in the day..One of the very few sport's idols in my life
I don't know what universe you were living in back then, Doc, but a hell of a lot of people didn't support what he did. I can't find any polling, but this article shows that even in the sports world many didn't support him. He certainly became an icon over time, but back in '66 he was a lightning rod.
Link - ( New Window )
Sadly, it takes a great deal of wisdom to figure out the short and long term consequences of some behaviors...and even well thought out actions can be propagandized against effectively in such a divided citizenry.
hes not protesting an issue; it's a rejection of the country through its symbols. So yeah, glomming its benefits is hypocritical.
But he's still free to be one. He's sheltered and nurtured by the country, and still allowed to behave as he wishes.
You seem to be assuming that there is one way of being an American and that if someone does not conform to it they should leave the country or if they stay they are a hypocrite.
Kaepernick is every bit as American as you are and has a right to assert his vision of what HIS country should be.
Thoreau refused to pay his taxes because he did not support a war. This has been taught in most high schools for years as an exemplary act of freedom of thought and individual liberty. What Kaep did is mild compared to what Thoreau did.
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100% supported Ali back in the day..One of the very few sport's idols in my life
I don't know what universe you were living in back then, Doc, but a hell of a lot of people didn't support what he did. I can't find any polling, but this article shows that even in the sports world many didn't support him. He certainly became an icon over time, but back in '66 he was a lightning rod. Link - ( New Window )
And a helluva lot did support him. I'd say it was split. College kids and anti-war protesters sided with him, the Vets and political establishment didn't..Cosell did a lot for him..
Um, what?
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The 49ers referenced the 'freedom of religion" in their statement may be a clue about where this is coming from.
Um, what?
He's black so it's possible he's a Muslim which means he hates America
And one of the things I served for was to defend the right for CK to do exactly what he did.
Forced allegiance is no allegiance. It's fascism.
I never perpetuate negativity on social media but this pisses me off. You won't stand in respect of your country? You're welcome to leave, you ungreatful prick!!!!