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How important are ST in making roster decisions anyway?

aquidneck : 8/27/2016 1:27 pm
Even if you only reserve spots for the kicker, punter and snapper on your roster, you're likely - imo - to keep a few guys who might be buried deep on the offensive or defensive depth chart if they make key contributions to multiple ST units. Ruben Droughns was a 5th active RB for us in such circumstances one year.

Herzlich and Darkwa come to mind as current candidates.

Do I have this right or wrong? If right, how many guys like this do you think a team can keep without undermining themselves? Are there any other currently marginal Giants that might make the 53-man roster because of ST?
let's use an example  
giants#1 : 8/27/2016 1:33 pm : link
If a player is clearly superior to someone else at his position (e.g. WR) then he'll likely make the team even without playing specials. But if it's a close competition (e.g. King vs Lewis or Herzlich vs JTT) then special teams performance is likely the deciding factor.
adding to that  
giants#1 : 8/27/2016 1:35 pm : link
at RB let's assume Jennings, Vereen, and Perkins are all locks (though Perkins probably isn't) and that they are going to keep only 4 RBs. Let's also assume that as RB's, it's debatable whether Williams or Darkwa is the better player. But Darkwa >> Williams on specials, so he would make the team.
RE: let's use an example  
aquidneck : 8/27/2016 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13088649 giants#1 said:
Quote:
If a player is clearly superior to someone else at his position (e.g. WR) then he'll likely make the team even without playing specials. But if it's a close competition (e.g. King vs Lewis or Herzlich vs JTT) then special teams performance is likely the deciding factor.


Your examples all assume good roster balance by position. But when you keep a guy primarily for ST contributions, like Droughns, sometimes you forfeit good positional balance.
Might be a factor in the TE decision as well  
BillT : 8/27/2016 1:48 pm : link
I think once you're not the clear starter ST must come into the equation. When Donnell was the starting TE it didn't matter he wasn't a STer. The backups were there for that. But if you're the 2nd/3rd team and don't play ST it means they have to fill that hole with someone else. Maybe even a starter. It's got to matter.
Unfortunately, we still have way too many marginal Giants  
Jimmy Googs : 8/27/2016 1:54 pm : link
that will make this 53-man roster.

And they should all be working their asses off to contribute on Special Teams...
.  
est1986 : 8/27/2016 1:55 pm : link
RE: Unfortunately, we still have way too many marginal Giants  
RDJR : 8/27/2016 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13088688 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
that will make this 53-man roster.

And they should all be working their asses off to contribute on Special Teams...


I've thought that the reason Herzlich has made this roster the past three seasons is because we lack talent. The fact that a player with his ability makes an NFL roster is a statement about that team's roster, not his ability as a player.
Totally agree RDJR. I have often mentioned we should  
Jimmy Googs : 8/27/2016 2:10 pm : link
always strive to keep the player who has the potential to be a future starter versus the guy who is a serviceable backup but Special Team standout (with a few exceptions mostly related to speed returners). The roster is just simply worse.

Herzlich, who had a very difficult life story for certain, has been very fortunate to be a NY Giant during a period where his below average LB skills aren't all that much worse than the rest of that depth chart. So he keeps a job because he hustles on STs...
RE: Totally agree RDJR. I have often mentioned we should  
aquidneck : 8/27/2016 2:25 pm : link
In comment 13088718 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
always strive to keep the player who has the potential to be a future starter versus the guy who is a serviceable backup but Special Team standout (with a few exceptions mostly related to speed returners).


Do you do this even if you're trying to win a championship?
Should always be trying to win a championship  
Jimmy Googs : 8/27/2016 2:48 pm : link
Not hard and fast, but imo a team should be built with the most talented current and future positional players. I find it difficult to think a solid STs unit should not be able to be found from these same guys. Again save for a talented returner-type.

Or said differently, give me the potential future starter and I will make him a good STer. But I don't think I can have the same success rate with a good STers and make them good future starters.

The key  
Vanzetti : 8/27/2016 5:13 pm : link
The key is to find guys who are great ST players but also contribute in other ways, like David Tyree. For whatever reason, the last few years the Giants were not able to do that. They do have Harris but they had to give him a big contract. They have to do a better job drafting guys like Tyree and Harris in the later rounds.

Keeping guys primarily because of their ST ability is not a good thing.

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