I usually come into the regular season as an optimist, and the team often does worse than my wish-infused expectations.
This year, despite an improved defense, I just can't get there: O-Line, O-line depth, TE, blocking back/FB and the seeming lack of explosiveness at RB all have me worried on offense. I know it is "only" preseason and MacAdoo says the problems on offense are correctable, but I don't quite believe it.
Someone please convince me I'm wrong.
so for example last night the giants continued to run the ball and were not adjusting, they ran the ball on 3rd and 9 woth their 3 wrs on the field, eli never audibled...
that effects the offenaive line because there are no pass protection schemes in place l, so teams with good defnesive lines are going to give teams fits in preseason...
if it was the regular season giants would of adjusted to a spread em out eli in the gun dink and dunk to slow down the pass rush, they never did that it was continuous run run and pass..
the reason the defense has played well because they are basically playing man to man with a 4 man rush, giants dline are beating their man and the secondary is good for the giants...
when it comes to week 1 you will see a completely different offense
Having said that - what I think is most important is for this Giants team to get a good start to the season for once. They cannot go 0-2 to start the season yet again and expect to beat the odds and make the playoffs. If this team can somehow find a way to start 2-0 (or at least 1-1) it might buy some time for the OL to gel and the offense as a whole to settle in.
I do think it'll get better.. I think there's going to be an adjustment period with Solari here. He knows what he's doing.. he'll get them playing better.
Having said that - what I think is most important is for this Giants team to get a good start to the season for once. They cannot go 0-2 to start the season yet again and expect to beat the odds and make the playoffs. If this team can somehow find a way to start 2-0 (or at least 1-1) it might buy some time for the OL to gel and the offense as a whole to settle in.
talented defenses with good secondaries and good defensive lines are always going to play well in preseason..
giants have been basically plahing man to man the entire preseason
Wait until we see what happens with Dallas.
The examples of teams who look either really good in preseason or really bad and have the exact opposite look in the regular season are too many to call out.
And the way preseason is viewed by fans is often skewed and even inconsistent. If Cam Newton has a terrible game, it is considered an anomaly - which is spot on. But people don't hold that same standard of logic for the Giants. And we are wildly erratic in applying logic. Some people in previous seasons actually floated the idea that Nassib should get consideration to play more because his preseasons have been decent and Eli generally sucks in the preseason. This year, you'd swear that Nassib was pissing in people's cornflakes the way the masses want him to be cut and claim he's not even an NFL-calibre player.
The defense is infinitely better than last season. I think it would be ridiculous to be so negative based solely on preseason games.
I agree to a point. But I don't think the Giants were really even trying to adjust or really even try last night. Maybe the goal this preseason is just to get out of it healthy. They know they are thin so why take the risk.
Ultimately we will know the answer in two weeks.
That's pretty much how I see it too. Can't sugarcoat how the OL and TEs have looked so far blocking. On the other hand, I think the first string D is looking great, so that is a refreshing change.
We will see on Sept. 11 - Dallas has some problems of their own ...
The Eagles looked like they couldnt be stopped last year and were marching up and down the field in the preseason.
Look, im not saying the Giants will be great or that they will stink or that they will be mediocre. Nobody knows that. What i am saying is that im not willing to write off a season on August 28th and act all depressed about it. Why would i not be optimistic?
Since the team has zero interest in running that kind of offense in that situation, I'm not sure how much that helps me guage their prospects.
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a truism, then I'd caution those all pumped up about the Giants D (after all, it's a bit disingenuous to let the offense off the hook with "it's only preseason" while simultaneously crediting the defense with being a monster "in the preseason").
Having said that - what I think is most important is for this Giants team to get a good start to the season for once. They cannot go 0-2 to start the season yet again and expect to beat the odds and make the playoffs. If this team can somehow find a way to start 2-0 (or at least 1-1) it might buy some time for the OL to gel and the offense as a whole to settle in.
talented defenses with good secondaries and good defensive lines are always going to play well in preseason..
giants have been basically plahing man to man the entire preseason
nygiants16, I agree. The defense isn't likely as good as it looks. And the offense not as bad (geez, how could it be?)... I think the offense needs some breathing room (i.e. Giants CANNOT start this season, yet again, 0-2).
ITA. I'm assuming they're "working on things" because they're using so many personnel groupings and plays that don't fit the strengths of the offense. Coming out and jamming the run into the LOS repeatedly is not going to result in positive outcomes for this group.
Yeah, I certainly expect better in 2 weeks.. I was just hoping to see something a little encouraging before we went to Big D but it doesn't really matter that much as long as they're ready to go.
I do feel good about the fact that we got through basically all of camp and preseason with minimal damage as far as injuries go.
Yes and they can't spell the coaches name.
12 - 4
The Patriots went on to win the Super Bowl that year.
Ha!
even that game though the starters looked like crap, he did it with nassib and rhett bomar as the qbs...
i cant remember the last time the offense has looked good in the preseason...
One of the strangest things about this place, and this place is filled with strange people and strange things.
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But I have to say, it has been a while since I was encouraged by the offense performance in the preseason. Maybe since a young Cruz broke out, perhaps?
even that game though the starters looked like crap, he did it with nassib and rhett bomar as the qbs...
i cant remember the last time the offense has looked good in the preseason...
not nassib i think it was carr
The Special teams are OK Middle of the road ..
Kickers are above average ..
The Offense has decent weapons especially if Cruz continues
to get better . Also Davis and King and Possibly Lewis
can contribute .
The Running backs are average no one is outstanding .
With the current offensive line and the Blocking from the
Tight End position clearly does not help .
Eli is not getting any younger and to me not adding
a couple of Vets and preferably a starter the Offense
will see some of the same struggles that will cost
us games . It would be a shame IMO if this isn't addressed soon .
I still think we can go 10-6 but my optimism is slightly
less now we are getting to the end of pre-season and
the same problems exist ..
I do think it'll get better.. I think there's going to be an adjustment period with Solari here. He knows what he's doing.. he'll get them playing better.
this preseason showing is similar to last years preseason offensively which makes me think its a macadoo offensive thing
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But I really can't just dismiss what I saw the last two weeks offensively. The offensive line play was about as bad as I could imagine. I really think we're going to have a very hard time running the ball this year. The pass game will work well as it did last year, but...
I do think it'll get better.. I think there's going to be an adjustment period with Solari here. He knows what he's doing.. he'll get them playing better.
this preseason showing is similar to last years preseason offensively which makes me think its a macadoo offensive thing
2014 was kind of the same thing.. I remember in the HoF game it looked like we ran a few plays from the actual playbook or similar looks but then the other 3 games we basically ran nothing but super basic plays that didn't even look like this offense at all. So yeah, it does seem like something McAdoo is doing on purpose.
Like I said, I don't care about the results of the plays as much as I was just concerned about the way the line seemed to be physically overmatched.
Gadzooks, I don't remember this much gloom and doom from any other preseasons.
So, nobody knows how they are til end of sept to midway thru season..to get an idea..if giants are good or bad.
Those things give me reason for optimism. I know the preseason has looked like shit, but I won't make a judgement on this team until the season actually starts.
They are set up great for week 1 against a poor Dallas defense and a 4th rookie QB. Where we improved matches up well against the strength of the Dallas team, their offensive line and running attack. We can win that game.
Last, why wouldn't you want to be optimistic? Helluva late better than being a bitter bitch. We'll all know for sure on the 11th.
Since Coughlin's tenure I have never liked the offense in the preseason but somehow they manage to get some things together. The fact that the defense is playing this well is my biggest surprise. Everyone was saying it would take time for these guys to get learn how to play together but they look very cohesive to me.
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In comment 13091583 UberAlias said:
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But I have to say, it has been a while since I was encouraged by the offense performance in the preseason. Maybe since a young Cruz broke out, perhaps?
even that game though the starters looked like crap, he did it with nassib and rhett bomar as the qbs...
i cant remember the last time the offense has looked good in the preseason...
not nassib i think it was carr
Yeah even the Giants preseason wins lately have been come from behind wins like that one with Nassib and Washington. Mainly Nassib was just flinging the ball and scrambling. It was effective though.
The mantra has always been it's just preseason.
Have we played a game yet?
Agree with this too.
The defense will be awesome. I expect a top 10 D and a top 10 offense.
So I felt, if we can stay healthy, this team is more than capable of winning the division....
And winning games in preseason really means nothing......I always look at, how our first team fared against their first team....
But this offense is sputtering, just like it did last preseason.....and what happened in the first game last year against Dallas.....the offense could not put one drive into the endzone, outside of when the defense had a turnover, and gave the offense the ball on the Dallas one yard line....the offense struggled....
And they are struggling, it seems, even more than last preseason.......I don't care if they lose, these games....but at least, show some execution on the offense's part......they almost look lethargic out there at times....
It's just hard to imagine this offense just flipping a switch, and moving the ball downfield......I mean Dallas, is nothing special defensively......but this team needs to get off on the right foot this season.....Romo may be out.....they will have a rookie QB......the Giants have to take advantage of this, and start on a winning note....
If those three positions end up better than they seem right now, then, yes, this will be a good team, with all of the quality on defense.
Send help
Really people?
Wouldn't be too sure, they may kick the tires with him now!!!
Brad Van Pelt, Dave Jennings only Pro Bowlers
The examples of teams who look either really good in preseason or really bad and have the exact opposite look in the regular season are too many to call out.
And the way preseason is viewed by fans is often skewed and even inconsistent. If Cam Newton has a terrible game, it is considered an anomaly - which is spot on. But people don't hold that same standard of logic for the Giants. And we are wildly erratic in applying logic. Some people in previous seasons actually floated the idea that Nassib should get consideration to play more because his preseasons have been decent and Eli generally sucks in the preseason. This year, you'd swear that Nassib was pissing in people's cornflakes the way the masses want him to be cut and claim he's not even an NFL-calibre player.
So you don't even watch the games? Just read the injury reports afterwards?
2) Their division is not great
3) OBJ is, in my opinion, the best offensive weapon in the league and perhaps in my lifetime. Yes, I am that high on him.
4) The D is much improved? How much? Who knows. But, they had the worst D in the league last year and had a legitimate shot in all but one game and very well could have won the division with an even marginally better D.
5) I truly believe Perkins will be the biggest steal of this draft. I expect him to have a large role by the second half, regardless of playing time this summer. He has more talent than any RB on the roster, right now.
6) This is the same offense that has put up points and yards for a couple of years and saw Eli finally get the recognition he has long deserved...including the warts of the running game.
After the 2nd preseason game McAdoo was asked why the Giants 1st string offense played so long, his response was he kept them playing because they couldn't move the ball. So preseason or not, unless he's full of crap, he's saying that's a problem.
Fast forward to the 3rd preseason game: This is the game known to everyone as the dress rehearsal for the regular season. When the 1st team plays late into the game putting it all together. Obviously, many have decided that's not true. I really don't know. But the first 3 quarters of offensive football that the Giants played wasn't just bad, it was EPICALLY bad!
So according to the HC it's a problem in the 2nd preseason, game, but according to some here it isn't in the 3rd? I sincerely hope that all of the reasons and rationalizations given here for the Giants' performance are absolutely right. I will be delighted if going into the regular season this a competitive team that has a shot to win any game they play. But to answer the OP's question, no, I can't be optimistic at this point.
And as an aside, Darkwa really disappointed me last night, did anybody else notice he nearly got Eli killed on that blitz? He got run over like he wasn't even there.
The way you beat the Jets is draw them in and then beat them downfield, which is exactly what Eli did except OBJ did not go for the ball because he did not want to get injured.
This is also an emotional game for them because of their second banana status in NY. So, really, you just have to write it off.
Flowers, Pugh and Richberg are all young guys so you have to assume they will get better. Jerry and Newhouse should be able to be OK. We saw it last year. Why would it be different this year?
To be optimistic about the season
And I said.....
Does anybody really know what time it is? - ( New Window )
Defense is light years better.
Yes, there is optimism - I think they are the best team in the division, with or w/out Romo
There has been zero show of the screen pass to the RB, of which they have 3 guys who can catch, plus some of the bunch WR sets.
Preseason has told us that running to the right will not be a strength, however, they keep working on it.
This offense looks exactly the same as last preseason
^^^^Spot on^^^^ Never understood the logic....simply put, it's a good indicator if the team does well in these games, but means nothing if they do poorly......and the "doing poorly" comes with a host of excuses, while the "doing well is simply a "good indicator"....like WTF???? Reeeeeally?
( without reading the thread)
Well, let's say cautiously optimistic.
We have a productive offense despite the lack of a running game. Times have changed, it's a short passing league now. Eli averaged 1.25 passes per game last year over 20 yards downfield and put up excellent numbers. We have the perfect WR to take a short pass a long way. How the rest of the offense shapes up through the year would be half of the cautiosly but if Cruz and/or at least one other WR from the group proves reliable we'll be able to move the ball and possibly get a running game going by establishing the passing offense.
The defense was an embarrassment, we addressed it in the offseason, all indications so far are that it won't be embarrassing this year. Maybe even a team strength. Personally, I think it's a gambling defense based on superior individual athletic ability, that means sometimes it'll get burnt but it also means a high turnover rate in our favor. It should at least be exciting.
One of the best veteran QBs in the game.
One of the best and explosive WRs in the game.
A nice mix of veteran and youthful skill players in the background.
An exciting defense that leans toward the confidence building side.
For me, that adds up to optimism.
Has your contrarian role been so played out and reduced that you don't even fucking understand the posts you comment on now?
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I'm a fan. I grew up with a team that was Dave Jennings and Defense. Why else be a fan?
Brad Van Pelt, Dave Jennings only Pro Bowlers
Ironically, we're still cheering for #10 and #13.
K, I know zip about Rodgers, tell me what you know about him
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And Larry Donnell gets cut.
K, I know zip about Rodgers, tell me what you know about him
Nothing. I'm just doubling down on my "Rogers" fixation after rooting for Rogers Gaines to make the team last year.
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it's a bit disingenuous to let the offense off the hook with "it's only preseason" while simultaneously crediting the defense with being a monster "in the preseason").
^^^^Spot on^^^^ Never understood the logic....
The difference is it's the same offense as last year minus Reuben Randle and plus Will Johnson, Sterling Shepard, and a potentially healthy Victor Cruz. So there is reason to believe that the poor offensive production in the preseason is misleading. What the preseason told us about the offense is that the starting five OL need to stay healthy (and a healthy Will Johnson should help, too).
On the other hand, the defensive personnel is not the same as last year's. So seeing Olivier Vernon consistently beating the man across from him does give reason for encouragement. Same with seeing the other additions to the defense performing well (for the most part). I understand that things could look different once opposing offenses game plan agains the Giants D, but the talent is there.
one of our major division rivals and our first opponent just lost their brittle but effective starting QB for at least half of the season. kirk cousins improved last year but isn't about to scare anyone.
What's not to be optimistic about?
Learned long ago that it isn't worth freaking until you're mathematically eliminated, because 2007, 2011.
Learned long ago that losing your most important player isn't worth Hare-Kare because Phil Simms, 1990.
And learned multiple times over the last decade not to panic over glaring positional weakness over the last decade - see Wide Receiver, 2011.
Seriously - if you can't be optimistic even in PRESEASON, why bother at all? Regular Season is where the rubber meets the road - right now, I'm Super Bowl dreaming about a really exciting defense, and a stable of really talented skill players on offense who are still covered by a tarp.
joe48 : 9:15 am : link : reply
We are not an 8th ranked offense. Whoever posted this needs to STOP!
Yet, you can take space up on most threads reiterating that they aren't a top 10 offense? At least people saying the offense was ranked 8th are basing it on actual stats from last year and not assumptions made watching glorified scrimmages.
Until proven otherwise, the Giants go into the season as a top 10 offense. That's based on last year's stats, not conjecture and opinion.
Let's see how we look Thursday.
Typical Coughlin season:
Start off hot - 5-1 or 4-2 most seasons. Team cracks the top 5 in most polls.
Midseason funk - typical about 2-2, 1-3, maddening, because most of these teams would show up for the big games, only to lose to crappy teams the following week.
Lateseason crash. Coughlin's teams only did better than 3-3 in the final six games ONE TIME.
I've had enough of that. I wrote off BOTH the 2007 and 2011 teams for DEAD after miserable late season losses.
I'll miss the high points of the Coughlin years - but what I'd really love is consistency.
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it's a bit disingenuous to let the offense off the hook with "it's only preseason" while simultaneously crediting the defense with being a monster "in the preseason").
^^^^Spot on^^^^ Never understood the logic....simply put, it's a good indicator if the team does well in these games, but means nothing if they do poorly......and the "doing poorly" comes with a host of excuses, while the "doing well is simply a "good indicator"....like WTF???? Reeeeeally?
The defense is playing well because they have a lot more physical ability than they used to. Their success hasn't been scheme and game-planning related.
The offense needs the proper scheme and game-planning to do well. They simply don't have the offensive line to line up and do whatever they want regardless of what the defense is doing or who they're playing. Using multiple TEs and TE/FB looks is not what the Giants do well on offense. Jamming the run into the LOS regardless of the team they're playing or the defensive look they're seeing is not what the Giants do well. They've done both of those things A LOT in the last 2 preseason games.
One example of this, which I listed in the post game discussion thread, was 7 of the Giants first 13 plays involved 2 TEs or a TE/FB combo. If you've watched the past 2 seasons under Ben McAdoo, you know that's not how the Giants play offense. Another example of this was a 2nd quarter first down run against the Jets. The Giants had 3 WRs on the field with Eli under center and the RB behind him. The Jets had 7 defenders TIGHT in the box. Eli simply turned around and handed the ball off. Not surprisingly, the RB was tackled for a 3 yard loss by an unblocked defender off the edge.
I could be wrong and maybe this is the offense they want to play during the regular season (a lot of Donnell and Tye on the field at the same time), but I doubt it.
That said I'm still realistically hopeful we can make strides this season. That includes a winning record and potentially a playoff appearance with an early exit from the tournament.
So enjoy 2016 for what it is. A transition season with a rookie head coach guiding a seriously flawed roster. The real fun begins in 2017.
Snacks, Vernon, D. Thompson, Eli Apple, Landon Collins all playing well. Encouraging!
Victor Cruz is making progress. Encouraging. Ryan Nassib seems to be regressing, which would be discouraging if we thought he was going to play.
The O-line all playing badly. Discouraging.
A small reason for optimism about the O-line: You reach a certain level of competency at something. You want to go to the next level. So you add new. different, advanced techniques. After that, there is going to be a period of time where you are actually worse than you were when you started, because you're working on the new stuff but you haven't mastered it yet. So if they're working with those guys on new and different techniques and approaches, they're bound to look bad for a while. That could extend into the regular season, but at some point it should stop.
Hopefully.