And workout immediately. Should be familiar with the offense, if he is healthy he would at least provide depth, could supplant Newhouse. You would think this is a no brainer but with JR u never know.
Jerry is a competent pass protector and has issues in the run game. Schwartz looks like a mauler but does not play like one, and is injury-prone. There were also attitude/desire concerns. In any case, I don't want him back. No need to retread guys who did not pan out here.
if he's better than our backups. He has been an INC for pretty much two years, and he can't even survive the first cuts on Detroit.
This argument that Beatty, Long Schwartz and whomever the fuck has a name lay people have heard of before is better than our backups isn't really a good one since all three have issues with dependability.
You know what I want in a backup? The ability to play when needed, not to be constantly injured or opting for a season-ending surgery. Why is this point being so obtusely overlooked?
But I think there are likely going to be better OL depth signings after this and the next round of cuts. The Giants also still must believe Hart can play.
if he's better than our backups. He has been an INC for pretty much two years, and he can't even survive the first cuts on Detroit.
This argument that Beatty, Long Schwartz and whomever the fuck has a name lay people have heard of before is better than our backups isn't really a good one since all three have issues with dependability.
You know what I want in a backup? The ability to play when needed, not to be constantly injured or opting for a season-ending surgery. Why is this point being so obtusely overlooked?
So you have no opinion? You dont have a gut feeling as to whether Schwartz is better than Stingly?
I got news for you. Let's say we cut Stingly and Schwartz is our backup and he gets hurt. Stingly will be available to picked up!
is a backup if when you turn to him in a time of need he's unavailable?
People saying we must sign so and so - and lately have been all ex-Giants or injury cases and have spent the last few years bemoaning the injury situation sound like hypocritical idiots.
I also don't understand that people have the view the OL sucks, but think it will get better by bringing back people who were part of the reason the perception existed that the OL sucked.
It's like "Hey - that guy sucks, but I know his name and other than that I know jackshit about OL play. Sign him!!"
I got news for you. Let's say we cut Stingly and Schwartz is our backup and he gets hurt. Stingly will be available to picked up!
With Schwartz's past, he might be injured AS THE BACKUP.
He's also going to get paid like a fringe starter would. There will be cuts coming up who will have less red flags and who will have survived a first cut from a crappy team, that will be better than our backups if we want to use that rationale.
is a backup if when you turn to him in a time of need he's unavailable?
People saying we must sign so and so - and lately have been all ex-Giants or injury cases and have spent the last few years bemoaning the injury situation sound like hypocritical idiots.
I also don't understand that people have the view the OL sucks, but think it will get better by bringing back people who were part of the reason the perception existed that the OL sucked.
It's like "Hey - that guy sucks, but I know his name and other than that I know jackshit about OL play. Sign him!!"
The Giants evaluated Schwartz as a better player than both John Jerry and Marshall newhouse. He was a starter going into last year. The other two were not. The money they gave each player backs this up as well.
Due to injuries and perhaps other factors at play the Giants moved on. They tried multiple times to upgrade the right side of the OL in free agency and failed. They know they need to get better there.
Schwartz may suck but I know for damn sure he's a better football player than stingly. I'm willing to roll the dice on him being healthy if called upon if losing stingly is the downside.
How anyone could disagree with that is beyond comprehension.
It's like some of you guys don't remember RECENT history
Schwartz came here on a fat contract and completely dogged it. Refused to play with minor injuries (he, as most other o-lineman are- was always HURT- he acted like he was INJURED- two different things)
Guys- just because it's a name that you recognize doesn't mean that it's an upgrade.
I'd literally rather have Emmitt Cleary get substantial time rather than sign Geoff Schwartz. At least with a young unproven guy you aren't questioning the effort or desire.
Will asked to be released earlier when it looks like they aren't going to make the team. Gives them more time to find a new home. Wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.
if he's better than our backups. He has been an INC for pretty much two years, and he can't even survive the first cuts on Detroit.
This argument that Beatty, Long Schwartz and whomever the fuck has a name lay people have heard of before is better than our backups isn't really a good one since all three have issues with dependability.
You know what I want in a backup? The ability to play when needed, not to be constantly injured or opting for a season-ending surgery. Why is this point being so obtusely overlooked?
So you have no opinion? You dont have a gut feeling as to whether Schwartz is better than Stingly?
I got news for you. Let's say we cut Stingly and Schwartz is our backup and he gets hurt. Stingly will be available to picked up!
You keep doing this, and it still makes no sense. So when Schwartz is hurt, the reps in practice he took away from the guy we pick up off the street doesn't mean anything? I simply cannot get over that aspect of this regardless of whether Schwartz would be the starter or the backup. He's incredibly undependable, why would we want reps going to someone like him?
really easy to disagree. And you're making it easier with your own words.
Quote:
Schwartz may suck but I know for damn sure he's a better football player than stingly. I'm willing to roll the dice on him being healthy if called upon if losing stingly is the downside.
How anyone could disagree with that is beyond comprehension.
Hey, he may suck, but he sucks less than the backup! Sign him!
The goal should be to sign competent players, not guys who suck, but suck less.
not uncommon for veterans to be released in the first wave of cuts to try and give them a better chance of catching on with another team. Of all the former Giants, I would take a look at, Schwartz would be the first. We have no veteran OL depth. Hart is a second year seventh round pick. The rest are journeyman who have bounced around the league. Schwartz also doesn't have to pass through veterans. He's a vested veteran and can therefore sign with anyone. My understanding is that he didn't leave the Giants on bad terms. I understand if the Giants don't, but I'd be inclined to give him a call.
if he's better than our backups. He has been an INC for pretty much two years, and he can't even survive the first cuts on Detroit.
This argument that Beatty, Long Schwartz and whomever the fuck has a name lay people have heard of before is better than our backups isn't really a good one since all three have issues with dependability.
You know what I want in a backup? The ability to play when needed, not to be constantly injured or opting for a season-ending surgery. Why is this point being so obtusely overlooked?
So you have no opinion? You dont have a gut feeling as to whether Schwartz is better than Stingly?
I got news for you. Let's say we cut Stingly and Schwartz is our backup and he gets hurt. Stingly will be available to picked up!
You keep doing this, and it still makes no sense. So when Schwartz is hurt, the reps in practice he took away from the guy we pick up off the street doesn't mean anything? I simply cannot get over that aspect of this regardless of whether Schwartz would be the starter or the backup. He's incredibly undependable, why would we want reps going to someone like him?
Geoff Schwartz has more starts than our entire backup OL combined. These guys are literally nobodies. I'm not saying Schwartz is a world beater, he's not. But he knows the system and has actually played in NFL games before.
It's a no fucking brainer. Stingly, Cleary, etc. Give me a break. Those guys suck dick.
really easy to disagree. And you're making it easier with your own words.
Quote:
Schwartz may suck but I know for damn sure he's a better football player than stingly. I'm willing to roll the dice on him being healthy if called upon if losing stingly is the downside.
How anyone could disagree with that is beyond comprehension.
Hey, he may suck, but he sucks less than the backup! Sign him!
The goal should be to sign competent players, not guys who suck, but suck less.
Sucking less is an upgrade and there is little learning curve. He knows the offense. Couldnt be an easier decision.
it is a no brainer to depend on a guy who has been completely undependable for two years.
And you were killing Beason. There isn't a whole lot of difference between Beason and Schwartz other than one was a top 5 guy at his position when healthy and the other guy has been slightly above average.
How is it a no brainer to depend on a guy who has been undependable? Where's the logic in that?
you claim things are no brainers when they are everything but. You are convinced he's better and we all ask you why? Answer that. What practices did you attend, which recent games did you watch that show what he's like in 2016? The Lions cannot protect Stafford and Schwartz just got cut. Is that not alarming to you?
The Lions let up 2.75 sacks per game in 2015, good for 23rd, the Giants, 1.69 per game good for 4th. While this doesn't tell the entire story, it shows we protect Eli and/or he has an offense where he can get rid of the ball and avoid pressure. The same cannot be said in Detroit.
Detroit was also dead last in the league last year in rushing and had 3.8 YPC; Giants were 19th in rushing and 4.0 YPC.
So again, why/how is Schwartz better and why was he cut if Detroit has a worse line (using 2015 as the only tangible benchmark)?
it is a no brainer to depend on a guy who has been completely undependable for two years.
And you were killing Beason. There isn't a whole lot of difference between Beason and Schwartz other than one was a top 5 guy at his position when healthy and the other guy has been slightly above average.
How is it a no brainer to depend on a guy who has been undependable? Where's the logic in that?
you under the impression if you post a variation of this statement several times it makes it true?
Quote:
Couldnt be an easier decision.
It actually isn't an easy or wise decision, and you haven't even used argumentation that makes it true. Basically, you admit you know the guy's name and that he sucks less than the backup.
you claim things are no brainers when they are everything but. You are convinced he's better and we all ask you why? Answer that. What practices did you attend, which recent games did you watch that show what he's like in 2016? The Lions cannot protect Stafford and Schwartz just got cut. Is that not alarming to you?
The Lions let up 2.75 sacks per game in 2015, good for 23rd, the Giants, 1.69 per game good for 4th. While this doesn't tell the entire story, it shows we protect Eli and/or he has an offense where he can get rid of the ball and avoid pressure. The same cannot be said in Detroit.
Detroit was also dead last in the league last year in rushing and had 3.8 YPC; Giants were 19th in rushing and 4.0 YPC.
So again, why/how is Schwartz better and why was he cut if Detroit has a worse line (using 2015 as the only tangible benchmark)?
He's better based on the fact that when he was a free agent NFL teams actually wanted him. The giants had to pony up a legitimate contract to get him. The current backups are closer to being out of the league then they are of starting the amount of games schwartz has in his career and earning a nice contract.
I'm not advocating this guy to come in and start. Sit him on the bench. But anyone here who tells me they'd rather put stingly, cleary, etc in a game over schwartz is full of fucking shit.
than an old retread at this point. Shit...Schwartz could not get on the field when he was here....and some of you actually want him back.
Who are these players with upside though?
Not a damn clue. But based on what Schwartz was unable to do while he was here...added to the fact he was just released...gives me a clue that he ain't the guy with upside.
i try to see the other side in every argument but your take on Schwartz is getting a little tiresome. He's not good. And let's say he was "better" than the backups we have - that doesn't mean you're required to sign him. If that were the case, Giants would bring in every single player for a workout that they thought was better than the backups.
This guy sucks, and he's a roster space eater and generally not interested in focusing on actually playing good football on the field. What else is there to say?
i try to see the other side in every argument but your take on Schwartz is getting a little tiresome. He's not good. And let's say he was "better" than the backups we have - that doesn't mean you're required to sign him. If that were the case, Giants would bring in every single player for a workout that they thought was better than the backups.
This guy sucks, and he's a roster space eater and generally not interested in focusing on actually playing good football on the field. What else is there to say?
Beggers cant be choosers. The Giants have two offensive linemen they can count on going into next year.
How does it hurt to bring in a player who knows the system and is obviously better than the backups on the team? What is the downside? The upside is they have an experienced backup who can play two fucking positions.
enough with the cap space. You keep missing the point on that one too.
You think in video game terms. Ohh he's hurt, just sign that guy who we would have had in his place and plug him in if there's an injury. Their ratings are both 55 so its a wash, we should just take the guy who we signed over 2 years ago that had a lot of interest because there's no way he can suck worse.
That's basically what you are saying. If a GM operated that way their career would be very short.
From three seasons ago. Then he missed two seasons to injury. And on top of that, there seems to be a perception that he'd rather be doing something else with his tI'm ex but doesn't mind if you pay him while he tries to figure out what that other thing is.
Paul Kruger was just released by the Browns - he's "better" than some of the backup linebackers we have. However, he was released because he's just not that good, overpaid, and young guys are busting their ass more than he is. Are you saying we should sign him too?
Paul Kruger was just released by the Browns - he's "better" than some of the backup linebackers we have. However, he was released because he's just not that good, overpaid, and young guys are busting their ass more than he is. Are you saying we should sign him too?
He had a 40 million dollar contract. It's not comparable. schwartz will cost us nothing.
now you're just talking silly. Are you saying just because of the fact that Schwartz "earned himself a nice contract" that NOW - he deserves to be signed even though he has sucked and hasn't played in 2 seasons SINCE he signed that contract? C'mon man, that is nonsensical.
make the first 75 for Detroit coming off injuries galore on top of a less than auspicious tenure with the Giants.
And from a functional standpoint I think the Giants want less of a plodder and more of an athletic OG (not saying what the Giants have at the RG now is ideal, mind you). And Schwartz - while huge and powerful - is more of a plodder. He's not going to do much out in space. He's not going to pull off tackle because he can't move. His mobility was always the question when he first got to NY - now over a year later - does anyone think he's somehow gotten more athletic? More mobile? More functional? (haven't even really gotten into the gamble it would be physically) I seriously doubt it - and the fact that Detroit cut him so quickly tells me plenty.
now you're just talking silly. Are you saying just because of the fact that Schwartz "earned himself a nice contract" that NOW - he deserves to be signed even though he has sucked and hasn't played in 2 seasons SINCE he signed that contract? C'mon man, that is nonsensical.
When comparing him to the bags of shit that we have behind our starters, yeah. Absolutely. Those guys are closer to being out of the NFL then they are ever playing well enough to earn a real contract.
I already did. At no point in any of the backups careers have they been able to play at a level that earned them a nice contract.
That's good enough for me.
It wasn't good enough in Beason's case, and you ripped the GM there.
Come to think of it, the main constant in both situations is the angle to rip the GM. In Beason'rs case for signing him and in Schwartz's case for not signing him.
I already did. At no point in any of the backups careers have they been able to play at a level that earned them a nice contract.
That's good enough for me.
It wasn't good enough in Beason's case, and you ripped the GM there.
Come to think of it, the main constant in both situations is the angle to rip the GM. In Beason'rs case for signing him and in Schwartz's case for not signing him.
At least keep your arguments consistent.
Fatman
I'm not a reese basher. He makes a million moves every off season. Just because I dont like a couple doesnt make me a reese basher.
I was not in the fire reese camp and I'm still not. You guy are over thinking this. It's an upgrade. It's cheap. The biggest downside is we lose one of stingly, cleary and whoever else sucks on the backup unit.
Since I haven't seen Schwartz play since he stunk it up for the Giants and was cut loose. Getting released after the third week of preseason by a team with a less than imposing OL doesn't speak well of Geoff Schwartz.
Since I haven't seen Schwartz play since he stunk it up for the Giants and was cut loose. Getting released after the third week of preseason by a team with a less than imposing OL doesn't speak well of Geoff Schwartz.
2014 (Signing him) and 2015 (playing over Jerry) have to do with 2016? Does nothing that actually happened during those years mean anything, you know, like injuries, poor play, and interest outside of football? Those can't possibly matter can they?
I can't sit here and pretend to know which back up is better than which Free Agent, I can admit that. But so should you. I go off of camp reports, practice reports, some in game footage if I can catch the game, and what I read about their play post-game. None of this points to signing Schwartz. If it does for you, i'd like to see the reports I may have missed, or why you are interpreting reports the complete opposite way I am.
Every single thing I read on the guy defines him as a familiar name who can't play anymore.
This guy was considered a pretty good OL while with KC
more comical is that some of the same posters who were happy that we went a different direction is getting rid of players who were often injured or had questions about desire now think it is border-line incompetency not to sign those same guys!
I really do laugh because it is really like people are saying, "That guy sucks, but I know his name! And I really have no clue what else is out there. But I wade in my ignorance proudly! Most simple decision ever - sign Schwartz - I've heard of him!"
2014 (Signing him) and 2015 (playing over Jerry) have to do with 2016? Does nothing that actually happened during those years mean anything, you know, like injuries, poor play, and interest outside of football? Those can't possibly matter can they?
I can't sit here and pretend to know which back up is better than which Free Agent, I can admit that. But so should you. I go off of camp reports, practice reports, some in game footage if I can catch the game, and what I read about their play post-game. None of this points to signing Schwartz. If it does for you, i'd like to see the reports I may have missed, or why you are interpreting reports the complete opposite way I am.
Every single thing I read on the guy defines him as a familiar name who can't play anymore.
He has proven he can play at one point in time. He's not old. The guys we have havent proven they can play in the NFL.
That's good enough for me.
This is the last thing I'll say on this...if the giants do sign him I want apologies lolololol!!!!
RE: This guy was considered a pretty good OL while with KC
more comical is that some of the same posters who were happy that we went a different direction is getting rid of players who were often injured or had questions about desire now think it is border-line incompetency not to sign those same guys!
I really do laugh because it is really like people are saying, "That guy sucks, but I know his name! And I really have no clue what else is out there. But I wade in my ignorance proudly! Most simple decision ever - sign Schwartz - I've heard of him!"
Fatman
I havent heard of Schwartz. I've seen him play 13 games with the New York Giants. He has 39 career starts.
In the present, he's been cut loose by two teams with OL issues within a year. Which point do you find more germane to the question of signing him for 2016?
career starts is what dictates the worth of a backup?
Might as well just go out and sign any 10+ year veteran who gets cut then.
There will be much better options to sign players in the next two weeks that don't have massive injury red flags and minor red flags about desire.
This is very odd to continue to pin the logic of signing Schwartz to whether or not he's better than the backup. Beason was our best LB period (when healthy), and being injured absolutely did not help the team.
think you believe based on career starts or any other absurd metric mentioned by those who want him signed.
As i mentioned above, I don't think he's a fit from a scheme and functionality standpoint. They don't want statues at the G spots. They want skilled and athletic Guards. Schwartz is not that - at all. He wasn't two years ago and he certainly isn't now.
And they definitely don't need another distraction posting bullshit on Twitter and living through social media.
There's a point you continue to miss. It isn't that he wasn't a good player. Yes, he may be a more talented player than our current backups.
After suffering a volley of injuries and having two seasons off, his play has steadily dropped off from starter, to backup, to missing off season cuts.
As I'd mentioned earlier, there's some reason to believe that's due to a lack of dedication to the game. And I don't want to bring these types of guys here - guys who are content being what they are. Those guys aren't even worth vet minimum deals, imho.
I want guys who battle to get better. Guys who will ascend.
traded(?) for a younger guy(name escapes me at present)..Also, not sure what the Lions' GM is doing there, but he signed 3 FAs this offseason that he recently let go. It's his call of course..
I wouldn't rant and rave if he was brought in a vet depth, but my sense was once he healed here, his desire(imo) went kaput, so no, I'd pass. Not sure if he has anything left..If he's brought back, then that tells me that tge Giants think he still has some viable role here..
if healthy I have zero issue. Health was the major concern with him here which wasn't an issue before he got to the Giants and was a team issue which lead to a change in how we do things anyway. I mean come on, how long has it been since we were this healthy going into the final preseason game?
And it's not like Schwartz was a tissue issue or like Beatty. The guy broke is ankle. If I recall it was so bad that he couldn't train properly and was playing without feeling in his foot. Some of us wouldn't go to work if we had the same problem. If we can continue to give Flowers a pass for the ankle sprain we should be able to do the same for a player willing to gut it out with no feeling at all. At least he was willing to play through and showed toughness which again separates him from Beatty.
As for being cut, he saved us $3 million in cap space. Mind you that was before free agency where we've made some of the biggest FA splashes ever in team history. We didn't know what we were spending yet.
Unlike the Giants, the Lions have invested in their line more recently. Their first rounder last season is their starting LG and in this year's draft they used three picks on the line which included Taylor Decker in the first and two mid round pickups who have versatility. A few days ago they traded for Brandon Thomas, whose versatile and younger than Schwartz. The writing was on the wall but that doesn't mean he isn't better than Newhouse and Jerry and he's certainly better than the rag tag, journeyman we're calling backups.
Lastly, it's not uncommon for a team to cut a proven veteran in the first round of cuts to give them a better chance at catching on with another team. The Eagles did the same with Andrew Garnder. I'm sure we'll see more of it by the end of tomorrow.
So yeah, if healthy I don't think it hurts to bring back a player who I believe left on good terms, knows the playbook and could push our mediocre starters on the right side. We'll see.
if healthy I have zero issue. Health was the major concern with him here which wasn't an issue before he got to the Giants and was a team issue which lead to a change in how we do things anyway. I mean come on, how long has it been since we were this healthy going into the final preseason game?
And it's not like Schwartz was a tissue issue or like Beatty. The guy broke is ankle. If I recall it was so bad that he couldn't train properly and was playing without feeling in his foot. Some of us wouldn't go to work if we had the same problem. If we can continue to give Flowers a pass for the ankle sprain we should be able to do the same for a player willing to gut it out with no feeling at all. At least he was willing to play through and showed toughness which again separates him from Beatty.
As for being cut, he saved us $3 million in cap space. Mind you that was before free agency where we've made some of the biggest FA splashes ever in team history. We didn't know what we were spending yet.
Unlike the Giants, the Lions have invested in their line more recently. Their first rounder last season is their starting LG and in this year's draft they used three picks on the line which included Taylor Decker in the first and two mid round pickups who have versatility. A few days ago they traded for Brandon Thomas, whose versatile and younger than Schwartz. The writing was on the wall but that doesn't mean he isn't better than Newhouse and Jerry and he's certainly better than the rag tag, journeyman we're calling backups.
Lastly, it's not uncommon for a team to cut a proven veteran in the first round of cuts to give them a better chance at catching on with another team. The Eagles did the same with Andrew Garnder. I'm sure we'll see more of it by the end of tomorrow.
So yeah, if healthy I don't think it hurts to bring back a player who I believe left on good terms, knows the playbook and could push our mediocre starters on the right side. We'll see.
.
I would be more interested in Gardner than G. Schwartz.
Schwartz is not reliable, health wise.
As a starter I don't just because of the injury accumulation over the past few years.
As far as a starter I would fear the injury bug. As a backup I think he fills to rolls.
Maybe more people will be cut, but he already knows the offense and the center of our line last year was far better with him then without him (again I don't think he would start).
But what we really need are two very good starters o the right side. Rookie coach says the o-Line problems are fundamentals. To me when you have veterans with fundamentals problems that's another way to say they suck and sadly that's exactly what our oline does. It sucks!
Hopefully, we can bring some better players in from FA.
We will not win with this o-line as it stands now. We may win a few but no way do we get to the playoffs.
of Geoff Schwartz -- he is not the answer, and if I'm Reese - it's fool me once, OK -- fool me twice, and bye
The problem is the guys currently at the bottom of the roster are even worse journeyman talent wise with no experience or upside outside of Hart...bringing Schwartz in now doesn't mean we stop looking to continually upgrade by bring in better talent to raise the level of competition...we can bring Schwartz in then add other people latter so that those at the bottom of the roster are not given anything but constantly fighting for there jobs...just because we bring him in doesn't guarantee anything for Schwartz...he could always be cut later on if he doesn't perform or we find someone better...this is a no brain situation a decent experienced OL with 39 career starts that outplayed some of the guys here...Schwartz won the starters job over Jerry got sidelined by injury and knows the system so he could be thrusted into action...even if we found someone better...there would be a learning curve to learn the plays that would effect performance...Bring Schwartz in it would literally cost nothing
that many wanted the Giants to keep, and blasted Reese for not doing so, has been cut. And those same fans now want the Giants to sign him even though he hasn't played or played well in 3 years and has been cut TWICE in 6 months.
Not one fan will admit they were wrong about Schwartz instead they will rally and kill Reese even more for not signing him because he's once again, available. Irony.
Even when he was "healthy" -- which was rarely. YES worse than the current starters. Huge guy, can't run block. Whatever he once may have been, he is DONE now.
of Geoff Schwartz -- he is not the answer, and if I'm Reese - it's fool me once, OK -- fool me twice, and bye
That's the thing to me. The guy was released by the Giants in part due to the health and performance.
Then, 6+ months later he is released again by Detroit in a league where lineman that are healthy and just provide adequate performance (we are setting the bar low) is in extremely high demand right now.
What does that say about him?
He has been dangling in print and TV media during the offseason, so don't be surprised when he is breaking down X's and O's on TV soon.
It's hard for any of us to know how he's looked this preseason.
Only our pro personnel group could offer an informed opinion on that. I never wanted us to cut him in the first place, so I'd be in favor of bringing him back if he showed anything good this preseason.
Link - ( New Window )
3-Did he leave on good terms?
Sign him!!
Sign him!!
Fatman,
Is he better then the guys who are backups? In your opinion? Don't give me anything about the Giants and what they're thinking.
In your mind is he a better backup then the guys the Giants have?
Shit,mnow you've got the Kinison scene with Dangerfield swirling around in my head.."Say it! Say it!"
This argument that Beatty, Long Schwartz and whomever the fuck has a name lay people have heard of before is better than our backups isn't really a good one since all three have issues with dependability.
You know what I want in a backup? The ability to play when needed, not to be constantly injured or opting for a season-ending surgery. Why is this point being so obtusely overlooked?
When he actually played here he played well.....just wasn't healthy all that much.
Actually I do want him on this team because he once gave me free tickets, but for the good of this team, I think there will be better options.
He gave me free tickets once so I like his Twitter use :D
Might as well wait to see how things shake out.
This argument that Beatty, Long Schwartz and whomever the fuck has a name lay people have heard of before is better than our backups isn't really a good one since all three have issues with dependability.
You know what I want in a backup? The ability to play when needed, not to be constantly injured or opting for a season-ending surgery. Why is this point being so obtusely overlooked?
So you have no opinion? You dont have a gut feeling as to whether Schwartz is better than Stingly?
I got news for you. Let's say we cut Stingly and Schwartz is our backup and he gets hurt. Stingly will be available to picked up!
People saying we must sign so and so - and lately have been all ex-Giants or injury cases and have spent the last few years bemoaning the injury situation sound like hypocritical idiots.
I also don't understand that people have the view the OL sucks, but think it will get better by bringing back people who were part of the reason the perception existed that the OL sucked.
It's like "Hey - that guy sucks, but I know his name and other than that I know jackshit about OL play. Sign him!!"
With Schwartz's past, he might be injured AS THE BACKUP.
He's also going to get paid like a fringe starter would. There will be cuts coming up who will have less red flags and who will have survived a first cut from a crappy team, that will be better than our backups if we want to use that rationale.
Not sure why Schwartz is that desirable.
People saying we must sign so and so - and lately have been all ex-Giants or injury cases and have spent the last few years bemoaning the injury situation sound like hypocritical idiots.
I also don't understand that people have the view the OL sucks, but think it will get better by bringing back people who were part of the reason the perception existed that the OL sucked.
It's like "Hey - that guy sucks, but I know his name and other than that I know jackshit about OL play. Sign him!!"
The Giants evaluated Schwartz as a better player than both John Jerry and Marshall newhouse. He was a starter going into last year. The other two were not. The money they gave each player backs this up as well.
Due to injuries and perhaps other factors at play the Giants moved on. They tried multiple times to upgrade the right side of the OL in free agency and failed. They know they need to get better there.
Schwartz may suck but I know for damn sure he's a better football player than stingly. I'm willing to roll the dice on him being healthy if called upon if losing stingly is the downside.
How anyone could disagree with that is beyond comprehension.
WHY? What planet are you guys on?
Schwartz came here on a fat contract and completely dogged it. Refused to play with minor injuries (he, as most other o-lineman are- was always HURT- he acted like he was INJURED- two different things)
Guys- just because it's a name that you recognize doesn't mean that it's an upgrade.
I'd literally rather have Emmitt Cleary get substantial time rather than sign Geoff Schwartz. At least with a young unproven guy you aren't questioning the effort or desire.
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if he's better than our backups. He has been an INC for pretty much two years, and he can't even survive the first cuts on Detroit.
This argument that Beatty, Long Schwartz and whomever the fuck has a name lay people have heard of before is better than our backups isn't really a good one since all three have issues with dependability.
You know what I want in a backup? The ability to play when needed, not to be constantly injured or opting for a season-ending surgery. Why is this point being so obtusely overlooked?
So you have no opinion? You dont have a gut feeling as to whether Schwartz is better than Stingly?
I got news for you. Let's say we cut Stingly and Schwartz is our backup and he gets hurt. Stingly will be available to picked up!
You keep doing this, and it still makes no sense. So when Schwartz is hurt, the reps in practice he took away from the guy we pick up off the street doesn't mean anything? I simply cannot get over that aspect of this regardless of whether Schwartz would be the starter or the backup. He's incredibly undependable, why would we want reps going to someone like him?
How anyone could disagree with that is beyond comprehension.
Hey, he may suck, but he sucks less than the backup! Sign him!
The goal should be to sign competent players, not guys who suck, but suck less.
Only if he's healthy and wants to play.
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In comment 13092271 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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if he's better than our backups. He has been an INC for pretty much two years, and he can't even survive the first cuts on Detroit.
This argument that Beatty, Long Schwartz and whomever the fuck has a name lay people have heard of before is better than our backups isn't really a good one since all three have issues with dependability.
You know what I want in a backup? The ability to play when needed, not to be constantly injured or opting for a season-ending surgery. Why is this point being so obtusely overlooked?
So you have no opinion? You dont have a gut feeling as to whether Schwartz is better than Stingly?
I got news for you. Let's say we cut Stingly and Schwartz is our backup and he gets hurt. Stingly will be available to picked up!
You keep doing this, and it still makes no sense. So when Schwartz is hurt, the reps in practice he took away from the guy we pick up off the street doesn't mean anything? I simply cannot get over that aspect of this regardless of whether Schwartz would be the starter or the backup. He's incredibly undependable, why would we want reps going to someone like him?
Geoff Schwartz has more starts than our entire backup OL combined. These guys are literally nobodies. I'm not saying Schwartz is a world beater, he's not. But he knows the system and has actually played in NFL games before.
It's a no fucking brainer. Stingly, Cleary, etc. Give me a break. Those guys suck dick.
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Schwartz may suck but I know for damn sure he's a better football player than stingly. I'm willing to roll the dice on him being healthy if called upon if losing stingly is the downside.
How anyone could disagree with that is beyond comprehension.
Hey, he may suck, but he sucks less than the backup! Sign him!
The goal should be to sign competent players, not guys who suck, but suck less.
Sucking less is an upgrade and there is little learning curve. He knows the offense. Couldnt be an easier decision.
Hey guys, let's bring back Will Beatty and Geoff Schwartz so we can have a great OL like in 2014!!!
And you were killing Beason. There isn't a whole lot of difference between Beason and Schwartz other than one was a top 5 guy at his position when healthy and the other guy has been slightly above average.
How is it a no brainer to depend on a guy who has been undependable? Where's the logic in that?
The Lions let up 2.75 sacks per game in 2015, good for 23rd, the Giants, 1.69 per game good for 4th. While this doesn't tell the entire story, it shows we protect Eli and/or he has an offense where he can get rid of the ball and avoid pressure. The same cannot be said in Detroit.
Detroit was also dead last in the league last year in rushing and had 3.8 YPC; Giants were 19th in rushing and 4.0 YPC.
So again, why/how is Schwartz better and why was he cut if Detroit has a worse line (using 2015 as the only tangible benchmark)?
And you were killing Beason. There isn't a whole lot of difference between Beason and Schwartz other than one was a top 5 guy at his position when healthy and the other guy has been slightly above average.
How is it a no brainer to depend on a guy who has been undependable? Where's the logic in that?
more like "no brains"
Who are these players with upside though?
It actually isn't an easy or wise decision, and you haven't even used argumentation that makes it true. Basically, you admit you know the guy's name and that he sucks less than the backup.
And that's a good decision? Yeah, right.
The Lions let up 2.75 sacks per game in 2015, good for 23rd, the Giants, 1.69 per game good for 4th. While this doesn't tell the entire story, it shows we protect Eli and/or he has an offense where he can get rid of the ball and avoid pressure. The same cannot be said in Detroit.
Detroit was also dead last in the league last year in rushing and had 3.8 YPC; Giants were 19th in rushing and 4.0 YPC.
So again, why/how is Schwartz better and why was he cut if Detroit has a worse line (using 2015 as the only tangible benchmark)?
He's better based on the fact that when he was a free agent NFL teams actually wanted him. The giants had to pony up a legitimate contract to get him. The current backups are closer to being out of the league then they are of starting the amount of games schwartz has in his career and earning a nice contract.
I'm not advocating this guy to come in and start. Sit him on the bench. But anyone here who tells me they'd rather put stingly, cleary, etc in a game over schwartz is full of fucking shit.
What do they have to lose? Money? They have 17 million in cap space. If he's healthy enough to play it's an upgrade at the backup position, right? If he's not they lose one of four useless backup linemen. Oh no!
#1 Ranking Going Into Free Agency Where Is Stingly on this list? - ( New Window )
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than an old retread at this point. Shit...Schwartz could not get on the field when he was here....and some of you actually want him back.
Who are these players with upside though?
Not a damn clue. But based on what Schwartz was unable to do while he was here...added to the fact he was just released...gives me a clue that he ain't the guy with upside.
This guy sucks, and he's a roster space eater and generally not interested in focusing on actually playing good football on the field. What else is there to say?
This guy sucks, and he's a roster space eater and generally not interested in focusing on actually playing good football on the field. What else is there to say?
Beggers cant be choosers. The Giants have two offensive linemen they can count on going into next year.
How does it hurt to bring in a player who knows the system and is obviously better than the backups on the team? What is the downside? The upside is they have an experienced backup who can play two fucking positions.
You think in video game terms. Ohh he's hurt, just sign that guy who we would have had in his place and plug him in if there's an injury. Their ratings are both 55 so its a wash, we should just take the guy who we signed over 2 years ago that had a lot of interest because there's no way he can suck worse.
That's basically what you are saying. If a GM operated that way their career would be very short.
No thanks.
I already did. At no point in any of the backups careers have they been able to play at a level that earned them a nice contract.
That's good enough for me.
But he's not better than the backups who are behind Jerry?
He had a 40 million dollar contract. It's not comparable. schwartz will cost us nothing.
And from a functional standpoint I think the Giants want less of a plodder and more of an athletic OG (not saying what the Giants have at the RG now is ideal, mind you). And Schwartz - while huge and powerful - is more of a plodder. He's not going to do much out in space. He's not going to pull off tackle because he can't move. His mobility was always the question when he first got to NY - now over a year later - does anyone think he's somehow gotten more athletic? More mobile? More functional? (haven't even really gotten into the gamble it would be physically) I seriously doubt it - and the fact that Detroit cut him so quickly tells me plenty.
When comparing him to the bags of shit that we have behind our starters, yeah. Absolutely. Those guys are closer to being out of the NFL then they are ever playing well enough to earn a real contract.
That's good enough for me.
It wasn't good enough in Beason's case, and you ripped the GM there.
Come to think of it, the main constant in both situations is the angle to rip the GM. In Beason'rs case for signing him and in Schwartz's case for not signing him.
At least keep your arguments consistent.
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I already did. At no point in any of the backups careers have they been able to play at a level that earned them a nice contract.
That's good enough for me.
It wasn't good enough in Beason's case, and you ripped the GM there.
Come to think of it, the main constant in both situations is the angle to rip the GM. In Beason'rs case for signing him and in Schwartz's case for not signing him.
At least keep your arguments consistent.
Fatman
I'm not a reese basher. He makes a million moves every off season. Just because I dont like a couple doesnt make me a reese basher.
I was not in the fire reese camp and I'm still not. You guy are over thinking this. It's an upgrade. It's cheap. The biggest downside is we lose one of stingly, cleary and whoever else sucks on the backup unit.
There are multiple people on this thread who have said to sign him so I dont think I'll have that hard of a time.
And then, after having both of them on the team for a season, they cut Schwartz loose. As have the Lions.
If the Giants wanted him as a backup, they would have simply kept him in the first place.
Nonsense. I'm all for signing him....I'm sure there are many others as well.
Check Jordan Rannans tweet about him being a free agent. The timeline has tons of Giant fans sharing my sentiment.
I may be overly digressive about it but those of you completely dismissing it confuse me.
Common sense dictates schwartz is better.
I can't sit here and pretend to know which back up is better than which Free Agent, I can admit that. But so should you. I go off of camp reports, practice reports, some in game footage if I can catch the game, and what I read about their play post-game. None of this points to signing Schwartz. If it does for you, i'd like to see the reports I may have missed, or why you are interpreting reports the complete opposite way I am.
Every single thing I read on the guy defines him as a familiar name who can't play anymore.
I really do laugh because it is really like people are saying, "That guy sucks, but I know his name! And I really have no clue what else is out there. But I wade in my ignorance proudly! Most simple decision ever - sign Schwartz - I've heard of him!"
I can't sit here and pretend to know which back up is better than which Free Agent, I can admit that. But so should you. I go off of camp reports, practice reports, some in game footage if I can catch the game, and what I read about their play post-game. None of this points to signing Schwartz. If it does for you, i'd like to see the reports I may have missed, or why you are interpreting reports the complete opposite way I am.
Every single thing I read on the guy defines him as a familiar name who can't play anymore.
He has proven he can play at one point in time. He's not old. The guys we have havent proven they can play in the NFL.
That's good enough for me.
This is the last thing I'll say on this...if the giants do sign him I want apologies lolololol!!!!
When you're 300 pounds and up, lower leg injuries really suck. Even after they've "healed."
I really do laugh because it is really like people are saying, "That guy sucks, but I know his name! And I really have no clue what else is out there. But I wade in my ignorance proudly! Most simple decision ever - sign Schwartz - I've heard of him!"
Fatman
I havent heard of Schwartz. I've seen him play 13 games with the New York Giants. He has 39 career starts.
How many do our backups have combined?
Might as well just go out and sign any 10+ year veteran who gets cut then.
There will be much better options to sign players in the next two weeks that don't have massive injury red flags and minor red flags about desire.
This is very odd to continue to pin the logic of signing Schwartz to whether or not he's better than the backup. Beason was our best LB period (when healthy), and being injured absolutely did not help the team.
Your reluctance to move on is baffling at best.
As i mentioned above, I don't think he's a fit from a scheme and functionality standpoint. They don't want statues at the G spots. They want skilled and athletic Guards. Schwartz is not that - at all. He wasn't two years ago and he certainly isn't now.
And they definitely don't need another distraction posting bullshit on Twitter and living through social media.
After suffering a volley of injuries and having two seasons off, his play has steadily dropped off from starter, to backup, to missing off season cuts.
As I'd mentioned earlier, there's some reason to believe that's due to a lack of dedication to the game. And I don't want to bring these types of guys here - guys who are content being what they are. Those guys aren't even worth vet minimum deals, imho.
I want guys who battle to get better. Guys who will ascend.
I wouldn't rant and rave if he was brought in a vet depth, but my sense was once he healed here, his desire(imo) went kaput, so no, I'd pass. Not sure if he has anything left..If he's brought back, then that tells me that tge Giants think he still has some viable role here..
And it's not like Schwartz was a tissue issue or like Beatty. The guy broke is ankle. If I recall it was so bad that he couldn't train properly and was playing without feeling in his foot. Some of us wouldn't go to work if we had the same problem. If we can continue to give Flowers a pass for the ankle sprain we should be able to do the same for a player willing to gut it out with no feeling at all. At least he was willing to play through and showed toughness which again separates him from Beatty.
As for being cut, he saved us $3 million in cap space. Mind you that was before free agency where we've made some of the biggest FA splashes ever in team history. We didn't know what we were spending yet.
Unlike the Giants, the Lions have invested in their line more recently. Their first rounder last season is their starting LG and in this year's draft they used three picks on the line which included Taylor Decker in the first and two mid round pickups who have versatility. A few days ago they traded for Brandon Thomas, whose versatile and younger than Schwartz. The writing was on the wall but that doesn't mean he isn't better than Newhouse and Jerry and he's certainly better than the rag tag, journeyman we're calling backups.
Lastly, it's not uncommon for a team to cut a proven veteran in the first round of cuts to give them a better chance at catching on with another team. The Eagles did the same with Andrew Garnder. I'm sure we'll see more of it by the end of tomorrow.
So yeah, if healthy I don't think it hurts to bring back a player who I believe left on good terms, knows the playbook and could push our mediocre starters on the right side. We'll see.
that's right his brother in the offseason.
And it's not like Schwartz was a tissue issue or like Beatty. The guy broke is ankle. If I recall it was so bad that he couldn't train properly and was playing without feeling in his foot. Some of us wouldn't go to work if we had the same problem. If we can continue to give Flowers a pass for the ankle sprain we should be able to do the same for a player willing to gut it out with no feeling at all. At least he was willing to play through and showed toughness which again separates him from Beatty.
As for being cut, he saved us $3 million in cap space. Mind you that was before free agency where we've made some of the biggest FA splashes ever in team history. We didn't know what we were spending yet.
Unlike the Giants, the Lions have invested in their line more recently. Their first rounder last season is their starting LG and in this year's draft they used three picks on the line which included Taylor Decker in the first and two mid round pickups who have versatility. A few days ago they traded for Brandon Thomas, whose versatile and younger than Schwartz. The writing was on the wall but that doesn't mean he isn't better than Newhouse and Jerry and he's certainly better than the rag tag, journeyman we're calling backups.
Lastly, it's not uncommon for a team to cut a proven veteran in the first round of cuts to give them a better chance at catching on with another team. The Eagles did the same with Andrew Garnder. I'm sure we'll see more of it by the end of tomorrow.
So yeah, if healthy I don't think it hurts to bring back a player who I believe left on good terms, knows the playbook and could push our mediocre starters on the right side. We'll see.
I would be more interested in Gardner than G. Schwartz.
Schwartz is not reliable, health wise.
As far as a starter I would fear the injury bug. As a backup I think he fills to rolls.
Maybe more people will be cut, but he already knows the offense and the center of our line last year was far better with him then without him (again I don't think he would start).
Hopefully, we can bring some better players in from FA.
We will not win with this o-line as it stands now. We may win a few but no way do we get to the playoffs.
The problem is the guys currently at the bottom of the roster are even worse journeyman talent wise with no experience or upside outside of Hart...bringing Schwartz in now doesn't mean we stop looking to continually upgrade by bring in better talent to raise the level of competition...we can bring Schwartz in then add other people latter so that those at the bottom of the roster are not given anything but constantly fighting for there jobs...just because we bring him in doesn't guarantee anything for Schwartz...he could always be cut later on if he doesn't perform or we find someone better...this is a no brain situation a decent experienced OL with 39 career starts that outplayed some of the guys here...Schwartz won the starters job over Jerry got sidelined by injury and knows the system so he could be thrusted into action...even if we found someone better...there would be a learning curve to learn the plays that would effect performance...Bring Schwartz in it would literally cost nothing
Is he playing for free or even visiting for free? Are they going to give him water and gruel and make him drive to NY?
Not one fan will admit they were wrong about Schwartz instead they will rally and kill Reese even more for not signing him because he's once again, available. Irony.
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Bring Schwartz in it would literally cost nothing
Is he playing for free or even visiting for free? Are they going to give him water and gruel and make him drive to NY?
Perhaps you shouldnt take things so literally. I take it you're not actually fat therefore you're not literally fatman in charlotte.
In terms of the monetary commitment the Giants would have to make to schwartz it would be nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Perhaps you shouldnt take things so literally. I take it you're not actually fat therefore you're not literally fatman in charlotte.
?
That's the thing to me. The guy was released by the Giants in part due to the health and performance.
Then, 6+ months later he is released again by Detroit in a league where lineman that are healthy and just provide adequate performance (we are setting the bar low) is in extremely high demand right now.
What does that say about him?
He has been dangling in print and TV media during the offseason, so don't be surprised when he is breaking down X's and O's on TV soon.