Coughlin wasn't the problem...It was Reese

.

will go well.

Shit.. someone tell John Mara, maybe we can fire Jerry and get Tom back before it's too late!!!!

?

You realize how the draft works with the Giants, right? Well, obviously not if you posted this. I am not happy with Reese for not getting one of Okung, Clady, or Penn because we were dead set on having Flowers there even though he never earned the position. He never had competition. It was just blind faith that he would work out. But how can I get on him about not being able to draft a LB? It is a group effort when it comes to the draft.

could basically call you a liar.

In comment 13092707 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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could basically call you a liar.

I've done that post more times than I can count

position. My anger at Bald Baldinger overtook my spelling abilities.

In comment 13092706 robbieballs2003 said:

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You realize how the draft works with the Giants, right? Well, obviously not if you posted this. I am not happy with Reese for not getting one of Okung, Clady, or Penn because we were dead set on having Flowers there even though he never earned the position. He never had competition. It was just blind faith that he would work out. But how can I get on him about not being able to draft a LB? It is a group effort when it comes to the draft.

Robbie, Okung was here but opted not to sign..Clady re-signed immediately, no? Penn never got on the plane and opted to re-sign with the Raiders

not Reese for fuck sake. If you're going to complain like a mental patient at least get that part right.

And it's not about drafting or upgrading the TE Possession (whateverthefuck that is) - it's about being asleep at the wheel.

is on the Jets...who didn't have nearly the need we had/have

But sometimes change is a good thing. Firing Reese would accomplish nothing. How about you let things play out for 2 years and see how McAdoo does?

Things have been playing out for the past 4 years and we have suuucccckkkeeeed.

And both should have gone.

he's also a massive injury risk.

In comment 13092715 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 13092706 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: You realize how the draft works with the Giants, right? Well, obviously not if you posted this. I am not happy with Reese for not getting one of Okung, Clady, or Penn because we were dead set on having Flowers there even though he never earned the position. He never had competition. It was just blind faith that he would work out. But how can I get on him about not being able to draft a LB? It is a group effort when it comes to the draft. Robbie, Okung was here but opted not to sign..Clady re-signed immediately, no? Penn never got on the plane and opted to re-sign with the Raiders

It was reported that we have had conversations about these players but wanted them as RTs. Why would Penn get on a plane if he doesn't want to play RT. If we wanted one of them bad enough they would have been here. If we said LT was a position they could play they would have had more interest.

The point isn't to nitpick how they could have been acquired. The point is that management was dead set on keeping Flowers at LT at the expense of improving the team.

without jerry reese's draft classes and signings

and am angry at the state of the OL. However, I've grown tired of listening to myself complain and typing the same complaints so I've stopped. Maybe some kind of gentleman's moratorium is in order. No more Reese sucks threads until after game 6 at that point we should have a fairly good take on the direction of he team and whether there are grounds for any new fresh complaints.

In comment 13092726 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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he's also a massive injury risk.

True. My bad

first game? No, no we cannot.

at fault, as they both had responsibility for talent acquisition. we also had a number of tough breaks with injuries: david Wilson, hakeem nicks, steve smith, Terrell Thomas, Kenny Phillips that were not the fault of either reese or coughlin. if those guys don't all suffer career limiting injuries, or even if just only 2 out of the 5 of them do, our fortunes probably would have been a lot different.

didn't do well for a few years. Recently, he's done much better. Move on to a new subject please.

In comment 13092721 bigbluewreckingcrew25 said:

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Things have been playing out for the past 4 years and we have suuucccckkkeeeed.

OK, then don't let it play out. The choice is yours

are a moron.

was that the Giants were always against the cap until this year, so they needed to be almost perfect in the draft. This problem has been around awhile and took a long time to clean up. Remember Ernie record with the draft was improved greatly once Reese changed their scouting. Coughlin problem was that he was around for just to long and it was time for a change.

Pre-Madonna

Move on bro.

In comment 13092718 AP in Halfmoon said:

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But sometimes change is a good thing. Firing Reese would accomplish nothing. How about you let things play out for 2 years and see how McAdoo does?

Its always been Ross, not Reese imo. The bad drafts are what put the Giants in a bad spot and injuries... which could be on TC's program .

How was he supposed to succeed with a roster full of JAG FA's with questionable injury histories and shit drafts.

That said, the decision has been made, time to move on.

In comment 13092800 shabu said:

Quote:

In comment 13092718 AP in Halfmoon said: Quote: But sometimes change is a good thing. Firing Reese would accomplish nothing. How about you let things play out for 2 years and see how McAdoo does? Its always been Ross, not Reese imo. The bad drafts are what put the Giants in a bad spot and injuries... which could be on TC's program .

Reese is Ross's boss. He is responsible for his performance, or lack thereof.

I loved TC, but I think it was time for him to go. The Beckham fiasco against CAR sealed it for me. He seemed out of touch.

I thought they should have cleaned house and Reese should have gone too, but he's still here, so let's hope it was the right call.

In comment 13092735 robbieballs2003 said:

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The point isn't to nitpick how they could have been acquired. The point is that management was dead set on keeping Flowers at LT at the expense of improving the team.

I can see having an issue with the fact that Flowers was given the job without even a whiff of competition. I get that. I probably would have done that trade.

At the same time, what we all said all offseason long was that it wasn't smart to put money or picks into injury players.

Been there, done that.

that it was time to turn the Tom Coughlin page.....yes, Reese gave him a nil hand as far as personnel was concerned, but Tom made some head scratching decisions last year too...it remains to be seen if Mac is the answer, though....

You could make the argument that Reese stockpiled cap, until Coughlin was gone.....But Reese has been backing himself into a corner the last few seasons with the decisions he has made....he has gone all or nothing on the the defense this offseason, and left the offense high and dry.....he is hoping that drafted players come through for him on offense, and that this OL will improve on last year's performance.....it's kind of a make or break year for him...if this team does not make the playoffs again this year, for the 7th time in 8 years, with a franchise qb, no less, and after spending all that money in free agency, his job could definitely be on the line....

I think we've finally paid the price for that when we went 7-9 (with the talent of a 3/4 win team), 6-10, and 6-10. His drafts from 2013-2016 have been very fruitful. He's replenished a defense that was so talent deficient last year that it resulted in one of the worst single season defense in league history. Yes we all are upset over the OL. Reese will probably be the first to admit he should have done more there. And I'm sure if we don't make the playoffs, he'll be grilled about the OL by ownership and the media. I'm not the biggest JR fan by any means, but let's see where they are at the bye though before we start shitting on the guy.

The revamped D (1st team) has looked very good.

The offense is offensive at this point, but lets play for real before getting crazy.

In comment 13092849 The_Boss said:

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I think we've finally paid the price for that when we went 7-9 (with the talent of a 3/4 win team), 6-10, and 6-10. His drafts from 2013-2016 have been very fruitful. He's replenished a defense that was so talent deficient last year that it resulted in one of the worst single season defense in league history. Yes we all are upset over the OL. Reese will probably be the first to admit he should have done more there. And I'm sure if we don't make the playoffs, he'll be grilled about the OL by ownership and the media. I'm not the biggest JR fan by any means, but let's see where they are at the bye though before we start shitting on the guy.

Reese did solid work in 2008-2010. The shitty drafting and injury luck in 2011-2012 set the team back.

Before the stupidity begins.

But, they chose loyalty to TC and the incumbent players after the 2012 season.

In comment 13092880 JonC said:

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But, they chose loyalty to TC and the incumbent players after the 2012 season.

Yes. I said the same ting in a thread last week. That stupid attempt to try to make the Met Life SB with the infamous SB clock set them back 2 years

In so doing it hurt the team as well as Coach. The Giants became a very shitty team in 13 & 14. Nobody outside of Reese, the owners and spoiled Giant fans expected them to compete. I've said this before: it was Coughlin who made it possible to avoid the "feeling" that the team was 70s bad. Had they stayed remotely healthy, Tom might have pulled a couple of Allies, 16-game version (8-8), but they did not.

Coughlin could not win under those circumstances. But he did bring sense to the 15 season. The excruciating losses were caused mostly by a series of weird events such as ace QB telling the RB not to score, vaunted rookie S dropping manna from heaven, punter grabbing a face mask- I mean you've got to be shitting me. But it was his responsibility as HC. That along with his age finished him. Were Reese of a similar age, he would be gone, too.

The Irishman from Waterloo, NY is still seething. He leaves. 80 million gets spent in a day. But he understands the business. And Reese has been about 75 percent successful in rebuilding the roster. So what else other than to find out if Mara hired himself a good HC?

of a HC just two years after a SB championship..

They worked hand in hand to build a losing roster they should have paid the piper together as well.

Agree the team showed positive signs and growth in 2015, a defense that couldn't stop the run or close out games killed them.

No doubt TC could still coach and NYG suffered from a talent deficiency for several seasons, but with the coach pushing 70 and a rebuild needed (albeit avoided), there should've been changes made Jan '13, imo.

No one was the problem. Not Coughlin. Not Reese. The team simply went through a downturn that inevitably impacts most NFL teams, with the Pats being the lone exception. That's not to say that Reese and Brass didn't make mistakes, they did, but with every passing season, thanks to attrition, the salary cap, paying guys that won super bowls and bad luck, the Giants had less margin for error. SOme of the miscalculations and misses finally caught up with them in 2012-2013 and only now are the emerging with a pretty good (on paper) roster.

Shit happens. Fucking deal with it. Assigning blame and asking for guys to be fired simply because "someone has to pay" is just a stupid way to operate. Someone doesn't always have to pay but they need to be held accountable if ownership doesn't like the direction they are headed in. Looks like ownership does in fact like where things are headed. Accept it and move the fuck on and stop letting a preseason game influence too much. It's not the end all be all.

but we knew then, as we know now, NYG doesn't typically fire their GM ...

but I was wondering what the reasons were for the Jags to fire him and found this. It does sound familiar. I know TC was not the Giants GM, but he was involved in personnel decisions.

Quote:

More than any single move, however, it was Coughlin's insistence — with Weaver's approval — on keeping the aging, expensive Super Bowl-contending core of his team together for two years too long that landed the Jaguars in their current mess.

http://beta.deseretnews.com/article/956690/Jaguars-fire-Coughlin-after-3rd-losing-year.html?pg=all

In comment 13092880 JonC said:

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But, they chose loyalty to TC and the incumbent players after the 2012 season.

My suspicions were that the 2nd SB afforded TC a longer leash, and lulled our FO into a false sense of security with the roster.