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Q: How much does game planning make a different for an offensive line? A: It is huge. We are running the looks. Sometimes you get up there and you get in the box, and they have a safety in the box. Normally, we get out of it. Preseason you want to see what you are made of. You want to run the ball and see what you can do against someone down in the box, working on your four-minute offense, because obviously the starters aren't going to be out at the end of the game at four minutes. So things like that. You aren't putting as big of an emphasis on getting some of your marquee plays called on games that are in the preseason, so there is definitely more that is going to go into it, and obviously there is a lot more pressure when you are in a regular season game to perform and to do those things. So, guys aren't taking as much risk on defense, shooting gaps that they weren't responsible for, so watching the film I know we are a lot closer than we look. We just have to go out there, keep getting better and keep working at it. |
Not saying I am comfortable with the OL because it really hasn't shown much promise, but given the purpose of these games it wouldn't surprise me if the OL isn't this bad during the season. I could have sworn the Giants were 0-4 in the preseason in one of the last two SB's if not both.
Not saying I am comfortable with the OL because it really hasn't shown much promise, but given the purpose of these games it wouldn't surprise me if the OL isn't this bad during the season. I could have sworn the Giants were 0-4 in the preseason in one of the last two SB's if not both.
Agreed. I think this should speak to what really goes on, but I doubt it will..
So although I can see his point, it is also an indictment against the dink-pass systems that have taken hold of this game. 8-men fronts can be blocked. Imposing your will on your opponent with the running game is the best way to close. Work on it. Be successful.
The play calling was bizarre. I get that they want to "work on" certain things. But how does it help work on things if your play calling is utterly predictable and the defense just snuffs the play?
...that crops up again and again in several threads which try to explain why our run-blocking isn't as bad as it appears in preseason games.
But several BBIers are missing a key point.
ALL 31 other NFL teams could say the exact same thing about preseason, but -- believe me -- not all 31 other NFL teams have sucked in the run game like the Giants.
So you're saying all teams struggled as much as the Giants on offense and the offensive line in preseaons because game planning is important? That's false.
So no matter how much you try to candy coat it with persistent optimism, the Giants struggles on the offensive line are cause for concern.
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all the years that this was evident. That it was understood or a given. I guess I was wrong
So you're saying all teams struggled as much as the Giants on offense and the offensive line in preseaons because game planning is important? That's false.
So no matter how much you try to candy coat it with persistent optimism, the Giants struggles on the offensive line are cause for concern.
I don't think he said that at all...kinda cherry picking the comment, no?
I think we also need to keep in mind that the Giants are a passing team and are built with that in mind. I can live with the Giants being a poor running team if the offense is top ten again. The difference between this year and last year is that the Giants probably have a defense this year and they are looking to start the season relatively healthy.
I agree its too early to know anything and they have a new OL coach to add to that. however, If it takes longer than a few games to be where they were last year ( cohesive unit an all ) i will be concerned... and Macadoo is going to have to coach around that too.
can giants run the ball this year ? lets hope !
To see what we are made of you fool.
Preseason is practice. You work on things, you evaluate players, you stray from game-planning as much as possible and you practice in earnest after the last preseason game..Some teams light it up during preseason like, for instance, Spurrier did with the Skins in preseason to no doubt put a fire under the fan base..Others, do not care how they look. It's more important for them to accomplish what the CBA prevents them from doing with their limited practices..
2) In the spots where they have run the ball effectively, they have benefitted from good scheme and execution. This is not a team that can just line up and run it at you. Against a front like the Jets, without the benefit of scheming and game planning, the Giants really had no chance. Not to mention Pugh out and Jerry I think left for a bit.
3) Not all the issues we have seen are the result of guys getting beat physically. Some of it, not all, is as McAdoo said, correctable. Go watch the replay.
4) It is not all about the Giants game plan. Some of it is a matter of how prepared they were for what they faced. I saw the Jets threw some blitzes in there and such the Giants may not have been ready for in the absence of game planning. If one team schemes and mixes it up more than the other, that can skew results. This is part of the learning process of the preseason.
5) Between the secrecy over who is calling the plays and vanilla play calling, it is clear McAdoo wants to keep Dallas guessing as much as possible about what to expect. We can debate about how beneficial this is, but he has the card, he gets to play it only once, and he's chosen to play it.
6) There is some hope in the fact that this offense did produce a year ago with nearly identical personnel. That said, see #1. Rankings do not always tell the whole story and consistency has been somewhat of a challenge, but the history should give some encouragement.
7) When you pay the big bucks to the QB, you have to expect they are going to elevate the play of the offense even when things are not ideal around them. The Defense looks vastly improved; the Oline and running game are likely to leave much to be desired, hence we are likely going to have to count on the offense being carried on the backs of Eli and Odell.
What is the net of all of this? I'm not exactly sure, but I can say the full story of it is not the preseason we've seen. That is just one piece of the equation. The answers are forthcoming.
Same here. I laugh because every single year, everyone agrees (pundits and fans) that preseason means little. Most important thing is getting out healthy. Then the preseason happens, and those same people take the preseason as an indicator of what to expect for the season. I don't get it!
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In comment 13093171 Big Blue '56 said:
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all the years that this was evident. That it was understood or a given. I guess I was wrong
So you're saying all teams struggled as much as the Giants on offense and the offensive line in preseaons because game planning is important? That's false.
So no matter how much you try to candy coat it with persistent optimism, the Giants struggles on the offensive line are cause for concern.
I don't think he said that at all...kinda cherry picking the comment, no?
I think the implication is you stupid BBI plebes worrying about preseason, the OL will get better once the start game planning. As though the Giants are the only team not game planning in the preseason.
What you can certainly tell to some extent is how certain individuals perform in their individual matchups/assignments.
For example - when Cruz ran that beautiful route and got behind the defense - it told me something about Cruz and what he might be able to provide to the team.
In the past, we have lost games in the preseason but seen the battle of the LOS won either offensively or defensively. I don't think there's anything one can say with certainty about this offense yet, because the offense is much more than just the play of the OL. After watching the first three games I think it's fair to say that there are significant issues in trying to sustain run blocks or to form a pocket to protect the QB. I haven't really taken the time to rewatch this season's games like in years past to identify who is struggling the most, but when knowledgable posters who I respect get online after rewatching the games and post that certain players (like our TE's) are struggling with blocking fundamentals I trust what they are writing. This isn't something that spells doom for the team, but it means we are likely in store for another season of less than dominant OL play.
That's not the end of the world - as we've seen Eli produce in this offense even without a great OL.
Trying to dismiss it out of hand is another thing altogether and I can't buy into that right now. They will improve, but doubtful we're going to see the 2008 OL this year.
2) In the spots where they have run the ball effectively, they have benefitted from good scheme and execution. This is not a team that can just line up and run it at you. Against a front like the Jets, without the benefit of scheming and game planning, the Giants really had no chance. Not to mention Pugh out and Jerry I think left for a bit.
3) Not all the issues we have seen are the result of guys getting beat physically. Some of it, not all, is as McAdoo said, correctable. Go watch the replay.
4) It is not all about the Giants game plan. Some of it is a matter of how prepared they were for what they faced. I saw the Jets threw some blitzes in there and such the Giants may not have been ready for in the absence of game planning. If one team schemes and mixes it up more than the other, that can skew results. This is part of the learning process of the preseason.
5) Between the secrecy over who is calling the plays and vanilla play calling, it is clear McAdoo wants to keep Dallas guessing as much as possible about what to expect. We can debate about how beneficial this is, but he has the card, he gets to play it only once, and he's chosen to play it.
6) There is some hope in the fact that this offense did produce a year ago with nearly identical personnel. That said, see #1. Rankings do not always tell the whole story and consistency has been somewhat of a challenge, but the history should give some encouragement.
7) When you pay the big bucks to the QB, you have to expect they are going to elevate the play of the offense even when things are not ideal around them. The Defense looks vastly improved; the Oline and running game are likely to leave much to be desired, hence we are likely going to have to count on the offense being carried on the backs of Eli and Odell.
What is the net of all of this? I'm not exactly sure, but I can say the full story of it is not the preseason we've seen. That is just one piece of the equation. The answers are forthcoming.
#4 is correct. The Jets threw some pass rush and run blitzes which the Giants TE/RB's didn't pick up. During regular season these guys wouldn't be in, plus Eli would have checked into something else.
Sure we are not a dominant line, but we are no where near as bad as is being shown. The lack of scheming is a big part of the bad look.
Now, that's not to say the OL doesn't need to improve. Especially for 4 minute offense scenarios, again as Pugh stated. But anyone who thinks this offense won't look better come the regular season, when they're not just trying to gauge the O but game planning for specific defenses and looks, is simply a fool. Again, this isn't to say that there isn't work to be done. But if you're hitting the panic button right now you simply don't understand what the preseason is for, and you don't know what you're watching.
Now, that's not to say the OL doesn't need to improve. Especially for 4 minute offense scenarios, again as Pugh stated. But anyone who thinks this offense won't look better come the regular season, when they're not just trying to gauge the O but game planning for specific defenses and looks, is simply a fool. Again, this isn't to say that there isn't work to be done. But if you're hitting the panic button right now you simply don't understand what the preseason is for, and you don't know what you're watching.
This is the perfect or near perfect post and Pugh would approve as do I and a bunch of others..I might have to start quoting you..👏🏼👏🏼😊
M.S. : 8/29/2016 6:31 pm : link : reply
...that crops up again and again in several threads which try to explain why our run-blocking isn't as bad as it appears in preseason games.
But several BBIers are missing a key point.
ALL 31 other NFL teams could say the exact same thing about preseason, but -- believe me -- not all 31 other NFL teams have sucked in the run game like the Giants.
But some very supposed good teams have had bad games and struggled in the preseason.
The Panthers have looked terrible, especially Cam Newton. The Texans D has looked pretty bad. The Cardinals and Carson Palmer look bad.
It is really hard to tell people that this doesn't matter. Even though they see it every year, both with examples of players who look awesome in preseason and can't do anything in the regular season to guys who look awful and then play great when it counts, they still refuse to comprehend that preseason rarely tells us anything of note.
I don't think Eli's ever had a good preseason. Meanwhile, guys like Corey Washington and Sean Bennett forced their way onto teams based on preseason play and that was the height of their contributions.
There are probably a few things of note that come from each preseason, but the bulk of the evaluation and development happens in practices and the training camp. But each year, unfounded optimism and needless pessimism permeates the board.
And it isn't just idle opinion. You have people who are CERTAIN on what the performance will mean in the regular season.
In 2014, they steamrolled through the preseason 5-0, and we all then saw how awful the offensive line really was when they went 3-9 in the first 12 games.
So, yes, the preseason can mislead you, but it also doesn't mean that everything is going to be alright, or that they're just being clever.
The problem i have this far, is that they are not winning individual matchups. Blown assignments aside, individual matchups have me concerned.
The problem i have this far, is that they are not winning individual matchups. Blown assignments aside, individual matchups have me concerned.
but in a regular season game they are never going to have lacosse blocking wilkerson..
that is the point he is trying to make, they basically ran the play that was called regardless of ehat the defense was showing, that makes it hard to run plays..
In 2014, they steamrolled through the preseason 5-0, and we all then saw how awful the offensive line really was when they went 3-9 in the first 12 games.
So, yes, the preseason can mislead you, but it also doesn't mean that everything is going to be alright, or that they're just being clever.
Of course not and no one is asserting such a thing. It just means, take it with a grain of salt and when the bullets start flying for real, when gameplans are in place, when Eli starts audibling pursuant to what he sees, when the fodder is cut and when the continuity kicks in(and THAT is going to take several games or more, imo), you'll see the real squad, good or bad..What we're seeing now is more for the coaches than it is for the fan, imv..
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Practice like you play?
Preseason is practice. You work on things, you evaluate players, you stray from game-planning as much as possible and you practice in earnest after the last preseason game..Some teams light it up during preseason like, for instance, Spurrier did with the Skins in preseason to no doubt put a fire under the fan base..Others, do not care how they look. It's more important for them to accomplish what the CBA prevents them from doing with their limited practices..
Most insightful remarks in this thread, especially re the CBA.
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There is a huge BBI deception...
M.S. : 8/29/2016 6:31 pm : link : reply
...that crops up again and again in several threads which try to explain why our run-blocking isn't as bad as it appears in preseason games.
But several BBIers are missing a key point.
ALL 31 other NFL teams could say the exact same thing about preseason, but -- believe me -- not all 31 other NFL teams have sucked in the run game like the Giants.
But some very supposed good teams have had bad games and struggled in the preseason.
The Panthers have looked terrible, especially Cam Newton. The Texans D has looked pretty bad. The Cardinals and Carson Palmer look bad.
It is really hard to tell people that this doesn't matter. Even though they see it every year, both with examples of players who look awesome in preseason and can't do anything in the regular season to guys who look awful and then play great when it counts, they still refuse to comprehend that preseason rarely tells us anything of note.
I don't think Eli's ever had a good preseason. Meanwhile, guys like Corey Washington and Sean Bennett forced their way onto teams based on preseason play and that was the height of their contributions.
There are probably a few things of note that come from each preseason, but the bulk of the evaluation and development happens in practices and the training camp. But each year, unfounded optimism and needless pessimism permeates the board.
And it isn't just idle opinion. You have people who are CERTAIN on what the performance will mean in the regular season.
Interesting how, when the facts are presented by someone who knows more than any of us, there are very few responses on here..Other OL threads, sure. Thread from a Giants' player, no..😎😝😄
The optimist says that once the games matter, being able to change the play at the line and not having mismatches at the edge will make things look better.
The pessimist says they didn't have the personnel last year, and they're all returning in the same roles, so why the optimism?
There's no point in going in circles. I have no doubt Pugh knows what he's talking about, but I also don't know why anyone would expect anything but a positive outlook from a player going into a season.
The optimist says that once the games matter, being able to change the play at the line and not having mismatches at the edge will make things look better.
The pessimist says they didn't have the personnel last year, and they're all returning in the same roles, so why the optimism?
There's no point in going in circles. I have no doubt Pugh knows what he's talking about, but I also don't know why anyone would expect anything but a positive outlook from a player going into a season.
Agreed T..But removing the optimism for discussion purposes, what he's disclosing vis a vis modus operandi has more to do with facts than positive or negative, no?
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continuing on.
The optimist says that once the games matter, being able to change the play at the line and not having mismatches at the edge will make things look better.
The pessimist says they didn't have the personnel last year, and they're all returning in the same roles, so why the optimism?
There's no point in going in circles. I have no doubt Pugh knows what he's talking about, but I also don't know why anyone would expect anything but a positive outlook from a player going into a season.
Agreed T..But removing the optimism for discussion purposes, what he's disclosing vis a vis modus operandi has more to do with facts than positive or negative, no?
You could be 100% right. I'm just a "truth is somewhere in the middle" type of person.
I remember the year Pugh was just abysmal, and he swore up and down that he was fit to play while you could see he had a protective sleeve the size of a chevy suburban on his left arm.
People talking about lack of execution may be off base(when you run into a stacked line intentionally), but people saying there are times when people are outmatched one-on-one are probably most justified in their views. A TE not sealing the edge or completing a block is either exhibiting poor technique or just isn't talented enough to carry it out.
Those observations, IMO have the most weight, but you stil have several people posting about how the playcalling is shit, McAdoo's in over his head with the gameplanning and assorted other happy shit.
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In comment 13094273 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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continuing on.
The optimist says that once the games matter, being able to change the play at the line and not having mismatches at the edge will make things look better.
The pessimist says they didn't have the personnel last year, and they're all returning in the same roles, so why the optimism?
There's no point in going in circles. I have no doubt Pugh knows what he's talking about, but I also don't know why anyone would expect anything but a positive outlook from a player going into a season.
Agreed T..But removing the optimism for discussion purposes, what he's disclosing vis a vis modus operandi has more to do with facts than positive or negative, no?
You could be 100% right. I'm just a "truth is somewhere in the middle" type of person.
I remember the year Pugh was just abysmal, and he swore up and down that he was fit to play while you could see he had a protective sleeve the size of a chevy suburban on his left arm.
I hear ya, buddy