'86 Bavaro vs. '86 Banks for this team: Revisited

one season Banks was lites out. It was some of the best linebacker play I ever saw. He had a really good career but that one season was defining for him.

and it isn't close. Banks would mean moving to a 3-4 and changing everything on defense. Bavaro would be a STUD in today's NFL as he overmatches people on the line and eats up the middle in the passing game. Bavaro would put up Gronkowski type numbers.

answer the question but Banks behind this new Dline would be as disruptive as ever. So yes to Banks.

right now I'd take 86 Bavaro hands down. An All-Pro caliber blocking + receiving TE would make a world of difference.

Pretty sure I voted for Banks last time.

In comment 13093930 mfsd said:

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right now I'd take 86 Bavaro hands down. An All-Pro caliber blocking + receiving TE would make a world of difference. Pretty sure I voted for Banks last time.

Yea, it's amazing how in just a couple of pre-season games how much the perception of this teams strengths and weaknesses has changed. In just 3 pre-season games, we've gone from "Potentially Elite O / Questionable D" to the exact opposite.

if I posted in but I would still say the same answer. Bavaro, easily. His pass catching in the middle of the field would hold a lot of safeties so Beckham would be even more explosive. And he would be our best blocker, right now.

I think the one weakness for OBJ is red zone threat (not that he is bad at it by any means), but throw Bavaro there? Oh my goodness.

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should be any question that Bavaro is the guy. I was not a Banks guy. Think he was overrated - that might be too strong, but seeing him every week he just never stood out for me, maybe because of Harry and LT he was the #3 LB on that team.
Bavaro was the best TE the Giants have ever had and probably the best receiver Simms had for numerous seasons. Even at 6'4" and 245 lbs, he'd still be one of the best TEs in the NFL today.
If you are limiting to just 1986, very hard 30 years later to separate one year from 8 or 9...

In comment 13093928 jvm52106 said:

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and it isn't close. Banks would mean moving to a 3-4 and changing everything on defense. Bavaro would be a STUD in today's NFL as he overmatches people on the line and eats up the middle in the passing game. Bavaro would put up Gronkowski type numbers.

Could people on BBI stop saying "it isn't close" for every discussion involving comparison or choice?

In comment 13093947 section125 said:

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should be any question that Bavaro is the guy. I was not a Banks guy. Think he was overrated - that might be too strong, but seeing him every week he just never stood out for me, maybe because of Harry and LT he was the #3 LB on that team. Bavaro was the best TE the Giants have ever had and probably the best receiver Simms had for numerous seasons. Even at 6'4" and 245 lbs, he'd still be one of the best TEs in the NFL today. If you are limiting to just 1986, very hard 30 years later to separate one year from 8 or 9...

'86 was the best full year of both of their careers. So basically them at their absolute best to add perspective.

In comment 13093957 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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In comment 13093947 section125 said: Quote: should be any question that Bavaro is the guy. I was not a Banks guy. Think he was overrated - that might be too strong, but seeing him every week he just never stood out for me, maybe because of Harry and LT he was the #3 LB on that team. Bavaro was the best TE the Giants have ever had and probably the best receiver Simms had for numerous seasons. Even at 6'4" and 245 lbs, he'd still be one of the best TEs in the NFL today. If you are limiting to just 1986, very hard 30 years later to separate one year from 8 or 9... '86 was the best full year of both of their careers. So basically them at their absolute best to add perspective.

I still go with Bavaro.

...but to this team, Bavaro would be huge - he was the best blocking TE the Giants have had in my years as a fan.

The offense can score and although none of the tight ends can block I believe they are in desperate need of more defense.

Although if you included Pepper Johnson I'd take him over Banks. IMO, Johnson's wheels would make him the top MLB in the league.

would add a pass rusher at lb the Giants sorely lack today and would create awesome possibilities with the improved front four from a blitz perspective. . Kennard Brinkley and Thomas along with Keenan Robinson and the BJ Goodson is still a mediocre unit. Banks and Kennard make the Giants above average at lb and the te and backs getting open routinely would be shut down.

TE are weak on this team as well but Will Tye and Donnell will still manage to combine for about 850 receiving yards. Bavaro would be a nice addition yes.

Another thing to consider. Quality LBs are in less supply than in the 80s. Quality TEs much more so today. Don't underestimate that. A pro bowl caliber lb of the 80s is probably still one today. TEs, not so much, and as great as Bavaro was for his day would be look as good compared to the Gronks, Grahams and Kelce of today's game?

its close. Give me a break with the not close comment.

you reading the answer incorrectly. I did not say it isn't close between talent levels, I am saying it isn't close on what would be the better fit now. Banks with our defense would not help much unless we changed to a 3-4 completely. Which means JPP, Vernon would have to change positions and the rest of our backers aren't exactly the right fit either. Bavaro would come in as the offense is and be a WORLD changer for this team. Nobody would dare double OBJ and leave Bavaro one on one and at the same time Bavaro would completely change our running game.

So again, based on my options of Banks 86 or Bavaro 86 for this current team it isn't close on who would be the better addition.

a difference with the quality depth charts we have at TE and LB...

I'm a big fan of adding to your strengths. Nothing wrong with further fortifying an already good front 7.

Banks won this vote going away. Because of need. We are now suggesting after three preseason games its switched drastically??

One may prefer one over the other (understandable), but there is no blowout here.

They were similar talents during their day. Those suggesting Bavaro would be Gronk like seem to not realize tons of tight ends today are Bavaro's size and faster.

Gronk is worlds better than Bavaro. Bavaro cannot run like Gronk and gives up several inches. Of course, its not fair to compare a player who is playing 30 years later, but still.

Meanwhile, Banks would still have better than average skills as an LB. LB has regressed as a position, unlike TE, in today nfl relative to 20-30 years ago.

On that same thread, as good as Bavaro and Banks were, both are overrated here, as I suggested. When I see the comparisons to Gronk I know just how much that is the case.

That combines Bavaros power game with his speed game?

Trick question, none of them have Bavaros power game. Bavaro could block Reggie White and run over Ronnie Lott. Gronk isn't blocking JJ Watt.

Bavaro was the hands down best TE in the league in '86 and would be one of the Top 2 TEs today, the only other TE even remotely close to Gronk.

LT is considered the best Defender of all time in general and especially on this site. '86 is the pinnacle of LTs career, MVP + Ring. On the short list of best defensive seasons ever. And yet Carl Banks who was the 2nd best LBer on his own team while playing in a 34 scheme from the 80s is supposed to be a safer bet to add more than Bavaro?

I know Banks was a beast in the '86 playoff run. But I picked Bavaro then and I'm even more in that direction now.

Btw, some of you might want to review your position on LT being the absolute GOAT on D if Banks was so clearly better than him in the playoffs during what was considered LTs peak.

The best comp for Bavaro is Kelce.

Kelce has an edge on movement.

Bavaro is better inline and blocking.

But...

Kelce is also an excellent blocker and plays a Bavaro-type physical game.

But also...Bavaro had excellent movement skills and could have played in a Kelc-ttype role where he moves around, plays in slot and wide, and plays inline.

and it's not even .... just kidding. It's very close. I think what gives Bavaro the edge here is that Banks played in a 3-4 defense and Giants currently run a 4-3. Although, this is not the 86' Giants offense they are running either.

Yea I'll stick with Bavaro. The defense has already taken some big strides and I think the team is use to poor LB play at this point. They haven't been this bad at TE for awhile and I think McAdoo's offense would prefer to feature the TE more. Also I think the LB core may at least have Casillas who is playing well. I'm not seeing anything from the TEs except for Adams but he's still got a lot to learn.

there need be no reevaluation of LTs status. He's the goat. And the one player Id say if i could choose him over anyone else its not close, save tom brady or jerry rice or someone of that status. And yes, this is with Banks skill level being extremely high during the 86 playoff. Banks wrecked sf offense that divisional round like a one man army.

Bavaro ran a 4.81 40-pedestrian by today's standards, in fact several te prospects will run that or better every year. His blocking skills are awesome and would be tops in today's game but the tight end is not asked to do that as much, not nearly. Its a stretch to say he'd be the second best te today. Possibly, but I doubt it.

Banks would fall victim to the same--players are faster at his position today.....but my guess is he would be closer in raw measurables that Bavaro is to his peers today.

Of course, its subjective, and I feel both would probably be near pro bowlers today, if not outright, but its clearly hard to transfer their skills to today's game.

People tend to think and speak in certainties around here, and I would temper any of that.

good post, I think your points are valid.