admission that the mistake of not addressing the disaster of an OL in the off-season has presented itself. Like many, I wanted an early OL pick in the draft but I can honestly sat that I'm not unhappy with the Apple pick. He looks every bit the part but somewhere, somehow, I would have liked to have seen an OL pick. After coming up empty there I was certain they had a plan B in place but again, nada in FA. No use crying over spilled milk but what frustrates beyond descripition is leaving our franchise QB hanging out to dry in the autumn years of his career ...when he needs the best possible protection the most. The shitty play was evident last season and the personnel hadn't changed along the line, unforgivable IMO. I pray they can put this thing together with spit, glue and tape so that we can witness Eli flourish and make another run to glory.
It's not an admission of a mistake. It's an ongoing process.
I'm suspecting Giants had targets on the OL in both the draft and FA, but the value relative to draft position and/or contract $ commitment wasn't there.
Bratty is back because none of the other options worked out and no UDFA gem was discovered in training camp. He's also healthy now and wasn't last spring when the cut was announced.
Perhaps Beatty's departure was less acrimonious than many fans assumed. And maybe, a few months after Coughlin and Flaherty left the building, some grudges began to abate.
Whatever Will Beatty may be, he's not David Diehl or Shaun O'Hara or Rich Seubert, and he's sure not Chris Snee. Coughlin and Flaherty seemed to love those guys, and stuck with them through good times and bad. If the grumpy old men were still running the show, I suspect Beatty's return would have been more controversial.
admission that the mistake of not addressing the disaster of an OL in the off-season has presented itself. Like many, I wanted an early OL pick in the draft but I can honestly sat that I'm not unhappy with the Apple pick. He looks every bit the part but somewhere, somehow, I would have liked to have seen an OL pick. After coming up empty there I was certain they had a plan B in place but again, nada in FA. No use crying over spilled milk but what frustrates beyond descripition is leaving our franchise QB hanging out to dry in the autumn years of his career ...when he needs the best possible protection the most. The shitty play was evident last season and the personnel hadn't changed along the line, unforgivable IMO. I pray they can put this thing together with spit, glue and tape so that we can witness Eli flourish and make another run to glory.
It's not an admission of a mistake. It's an ongoing process.
I'm suspecting Giants had targets on the OL in both the draft and FA, but the value relative to draft position and/or contract $ commitment wasn't there.
Bratty is back because none of the other options worked out and no UDFA gem was discovered in training camp. He's also healthy now and wasn't last spring when the cut was announced.
You call it a "process" and I'll call it an experiment that's been ongoing since the last SB. Sure, there are those that will point to the various draft picks but in my opinion there have been reaches in the draft, poor evaluation on the FA side and the "process" itself started too late. We needed, and still do need, more cornerstone OL and we're still seeing the FO shuffling the deck.
For Beatty to contribute more than sitting on the bench
they'd have to break up the left side of the OL and kick Flowers to RT, which means several moves they've been avoiding since Beatty went down a year ago.
NYG swallowed pride to reverse their course, and so did Beatty, to return for $1M.
they'd have to break up the left side of the OL and kick Flowers to RT, which means several moves they've been avoiding since Beatty went down a year ago.
Time will tell. I wouldn't rule out Beatty at RT. Let's see how Flowers and Newhouse fare while Beatty gets up to speed and into football shape.
I agree that WB opens the year as the swing tackle. That means he'll get 2nd team reps (at least) on both sides. Solari can take the evaluation from there.
was not possible, it would be foolish of me to make any strong pronouncements as it pertains to him..That said, I'd be further surprised (shocked?) if EF is moved at this point..Beatty of course is insurance at OLT..
I thought they made the right decision originally, it was time to move on from TC leftovers who were determined to be under-performing, struggling with injuries, not earning the full value of their contract, etc. The tea leaves followed suit, until now.
It's a bit disappointing to go in the reverse direction of a good decision, imv.
I thought they made the right decision originally, it was time to move on from TC leftovers who were determined to be under-performing, struggling with injuries, not earning the full value of their contract, etc. The tea leaves followed suit, until now.
It's a bit disappointing to go in the reverse direction of a good decision, imv.
Agreed..The good news is he's a decent, hopefully versatile depth guy, imo
...it was clear the Giants were going to address OL DEPTH during pre-season - they didn't choose to draft an OL, didn't believe any of the available FA's were worth the asking price, were clearly content with the starters.
Will Beatty was NOT signed to START. He has been signed for DEPTH, and I would expect at least one more signing from the training camp castaways.
The move makes me happy - to me, this was - and IS the Achilles heel of this team. Beatty gives the Giants a MUCH NEEDED solid backup - and if he can regain his form - who knows? Possibly a starting role in the future. His injury history is what got him cut, and his injury history is what will keep him on the bench - you simply can't rely on him.
leave it to the Giants to play a prototype RT at LT and a LT at RT.
The game has changed. Good Pass rushers come off both sides. 3-4 OLBs move side to side.
Look at the Giants, OV moved JPP to the left DE position. The Giants aren't the only team with two good edge rushers that require the opposing team to have two good pass protection OTs.
against the Jets. He also played LG the entire first half against the Bills the week before. Got two series at RT in that game in third period.
I know there's also practices, but before the Pugh injury, my recollection is that the competition between Newhouse and Hart was up in the air. And Hart has also had to spend time at LG in practices the last two weeks in anticipation of playing there in the games.
I'm not a huge Hart fan but it seems an odd context to render a verdict on Hart as an OT. There's been a lot more of Newhouse at OT on display the last two weeks.
I guess we'll see.
This is a good thought process. BBI has been looking for the next Kevin Boothe. It might be Hart. Not quite good enough to start, but a flexible OL that can play Tackle or Guard. When they have him take snaps at center, we will know. IIRC, Boothe could not play OT, just OG and C. At 22 Hart is young enough to still grow and develop his technique.
...it was clear the Giants were going to address OL DEPTH during pre-season - they didn't choose to draft an OL, didn't believe any of the available FA's were worth the asking price, were clearly content with the starters.
Will Beatty was NOT signed to START. He has been signed for DEPTH, and I would expect at least one more signing from the training camp castaways.
The move makes me happy - to me, this was - and IS the Achilles heel of this team. Beatty gives the Giants a MUCH NEEDED solid backup - and if he can regain his form - who knows? Possibly a starting role in the future. His injury history is what got him cut, and his injury history is what will keep him on the bench - you simply can't rely on him.
Maybe it's not so much "hysterics" but rather a great, big "yawn" when it comes to the signing of Will Beatty. He is not the answer in raising the overall quality of the O-line unit. He's the best the Giants can do at this late stage -- he adds a little back-up glue to a thin offense line that will need lots of serious attention in the 2017 off-season.
Starting Tackle of the SuperBowl Champion Giants, Will Beatty.
if he did that as a Packer, Raven or Seahawk, everyone would be happy.
He didn't start for the Super Bowl Champion Giants, but Newhouse started for the Super Bowl Chamption Pakers. And it didn't make everyone happy. Irony can be so ironic.
This is also false. Newhouse wasn't in the league in 2010. His first year was 2011.. he was on the 15-1 Packer team we beat in the Divisional rd.
I guess irony isn't as ironic as I thought it was.
p.s.-- I think the addition of Beatty is as much about Flowers as it is about Newhouse. Whoever sucks the most will be the guy Beatty replaces and it won't involve a move to the right side by Flowers.
Maybe it's not so much "hysterics" but rather a great, big "yawn" when it comes to the signing of Will Beatty. He is not the answer in raising the overall quality of the O-line unit. He's the best the Giants can do at this late stage -- he adds a little back-up glue to a thin offense line that will need lots of serious attention in the 2017 off-season.
I don't think it's a 'Yawn' to add Will Beatty to offset the Hart/Rodgers tackle depth.
I thought they made the right decision originally, it was time to move on from TC leftovers who were determined to be under-performing, struggling with injuries, not earning the full value of their contract, etc. The tea leaves followed suit, until now.
It's a bit disappointing to go in the reverse direction of a good decision, imv.
you make it sound like TC signed these players you speak of lol
To be in this position with the offensive line after an off-season of enormous cap wealth is a managerial failure. We are now relying partially on luck for the line to play well.
No plan.
They brought him back when the word and tea leaves suggested
To be in this position with the offensive line after an off-season of enormous cap wealth is a managerial failure. We are now relying partially on luck for the line to play well.
No plan.
I don't assign fault here. Money was not an issue. Players worthy of that money were..
Having money to spend does not mean that there were players
Then how are the defensive expenditures explained? Even the people that like the signings concede that the Giants overpaid for those players.
I've been a Reese guy but I do assign blame. There were offensive linemen on the market that cost a fraction of what we spent.
We can spend all the money on defense we want. This team is still only going where Eli takes it. To put him behind that right side is tough to justify.
Then how are the defensive expenditures explained? Even the people that like the signings concede that the Giants overpaid for those players.
I've been a Reese guy but I do assign blame. There were offensive linemen on the market that cost a fraction of what we spent.
We can spend all the money on defense we want. This team is still only going where Eli takes it. To put him behind that right side is tough to justify.
WHO? Osemele?
I wanted Conklin, but he went before us.
The defensive expenditures are explained by the fact this year's FA
Who were the two noteworthy LTs out there? Russ Okung, a failed first-round pick his own team didn't really want (and who's name travels a lot more than his actual skill level) or Ryan Clady, a consistently injured big name player his team didn't really want.
The only other player of note is Mitchell Schwartz, who signed a deal that puts him in the highest paid players at his position.
it turns out Beatty may have been the best guy on the market and they got him back at a bargain. They also massively upgraded the defense. That's a great plan, IMO.
If Flowers did stink it up and Beatty took over LT, I am not sure Flowers just "slides" to the right side. I have no knowledge that Flowers has ever practiced on the right side? A switch over Newhouse wouldn't happen right away - at least that is my guess.
It's not an admission of a mistake. It's an ongoing process.
I'm suspecting Giants had targets on the OL in both the draft and FA, but the value relative to draft position and/or contract $ commitment wasn't there.
Bratty is back because none of the other options worked out and no UDFA gem was discovered in training camp. He's also healthy now and wasn't last spring when the cut was announced.
I mean, Tunsil fell but we didn't bite so who would you wants?
It is a passing league and the more solid DB's you have the better off you are on defense. Our defense needed a lot of help.
Perhaps Beatty's departure was less acrimonious than many fans assumed. And maybe, a few months after Coughlin and Flaherty left the building, some grudges began to abate.
Whatever Will Beatty may be, he's not David Diehl or Shaun O'Hara or Rich Seubert, and he's sure not Chris Snee. Coughlin and Flaherty seemed to love those guys, and stuck with them through good times and bad. If the grumpy old men were still running the show, I suspect Beatty's return would have been more controversial.
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admission that the mistake of not addressing the disaster of an OL in the off-season has presented itself. Like many, I wanted an early OL pick in the draft but I can honestly sat that I'm not unhappy with the Apple pick. He looks every bit the part but somewhere, somehow, I would have liked to have seen an OL pick. After coming up empty there I was certain they had a plan B in place but again, nada in FA. No use crying over spilled milk but what frustrates beyond descripition is leaving our franchise QB hanging out to dry in the autumn years of his career ...when he needs the best possible protection the most. The shitty play was evident last season and the personnel hadn't changed along the line, unforgivable IMO. I pray they can put this thing together with spit, glue and tape so that we can witness Eli flourish and make another run to glory.
It's not an admission of a mistake. It's an ongoing process.
I'm suspecting Giants had targets on the OL in both the draft and FA, but the value relative to draft position and/or contract $ commitment wasn't there.
Bratty is back because none of the other options worked out and no UDFA gem was discovered in training camp. He's also healthy now and wasn't last spring when the cut was announced.
You call it a "process" and I'll call it an experiment that's been ongoing since the last SB. Sure, there are those that will point to the various draft picks but in my opinion there have been reaches in the draft, poor evaluation on the FA side and the "process" itself started too late. We needed, and still do need, more cornerstone OL and we're still seeing the FO shuffling the deck.
NYG swallowed pride to reverse their course, and so did Beatty, to return for $1M.
Time will tell. I wouldn't rule out Beatty at RT. Let's see how Flowers and Newhouse fare while Beatty gets up to speed and into football shape.
I agree that WB opens the year as the swing tackle. That means he'll get 2nd team reps (at least) on both sides. Solari can take the evaluation from there.
So, now the front office has bitten the bullet and brought him back, will the coaches do the same and pull musical chairs? Fubar.
He doesn't have that kind of status to do that.
It's a bit disappointing to go in the reverse direction of a good decision, imv.
As in many things with BBI, the most accurate answer is somewhere between the two extremes.
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Now he's the savior.
As in many things with BBI, the most accurate answer is somewhere between the two extremes.
No doubt. I always liked Beatty, thought he was solid, not spectacular, and was paid for what he was- an average LT. Good in PP.
I'm all for this..Hope he has something left.
It's a bit disappointing to go in the reverse direction of a good decision, imv.
Agreed..The good news is he's a decent, hopefully versatile depth guy, imo
...of the New York Giants, the bar is set very low. The real, significant upgrading of this unit will occur in 2017. Will Beatty is a 2016 stand-in.
Will Beatty was NOT signed to START. He has been signed for DEPTH, and I would expect at least one more signing from the training camp castaways.
The move makes me happy - to me, this was - and IS the Achilles heel of this team. Beatty gives the Giants a MUCH NEEDED solid backup - and if he can regain his form - who knows? Possibly a starting role in the future. His injury history is what got him cut, and his injury history is what will keep him on the bench - you simply can't rely on him.
The game has changed. Good Pass rushers come off both sides. 3-4 OLBs move side to side.
Look at the Giants, OV moved JPP to the left DE position. The Giants aren't the only team with two good edge rushers that require the opposing team to have two good pass protection OTs.
I know there's also practices, but before the Pugh injury, my recollection is that the competition between Newhouse and Hart was up in the air. And Hart has also had to spend time at LG in practices the last two weeks in anticipation of playing there in the games.
I'm not a huge Hart fan but it seems an odd context to render a verdict on Hart as an OT. There's been a lot more of Newhouse at OT on display the last two weeks.
I guess we'll see.
This is a good thought process. BBI has been looking for the next Kevin Boothe. It might be Hart. Not quite good enough to start, but a flexible OL that can play Tackle or Guard. When they have him take snaps at center, we will know. IIRC, Boothe could not play OT, just OG and C. At 22 Hart is young enough to still grow and develop his technique.
Will Beatty was NOT signed to START. He has been signed for DEPTH, and I would expect at least one more signing from the training camp castaways.
The move makes me happy - to me, this was - and IS the Achilles heel of this team. Beatty gives the Giants a MUCH NEEDED solid backup - and if he can regain his form - who knows? Possibly a starting role in the future. His injury history is what got him cut, and his injury history is what will keep him on the bench - you simply can't rely on him.
Maybe it's not so much "hysterics" but rather a great, big "yawn" when it comes to the signing of Will Beatty. He is not the answer in raising the overall quality of the O-line unit. He's the best the Giants can do at this late stage -- he adds a little back-up glue to a thin offense line that will need lots of serious attention in the 2017 off-season.
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In comment 13094452 YorkAveGiant said:
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Starting Tackle of the SuperBowl Champion Giants, Will Beatty.
if he did that as a Packer, Raven or Seahawk, everyone would be happy.
He didn't start for the Super Bowl Champion Giants, but Newhouse started for the Super Bowl Chamption Pakers. And it didn't make everyone happy. Irony can be so ironic.
This is also false. Newhouse wasn't in the league in 2010. His first year was 2011.. he was on the 15-1 Packer team we beat in the Divisional rd.
p.s.-- I think the addition of Beatty is as much about Flowers as it is about Newhouse. Whoever sucks the most will be the guy Beatty replaces and it won't involve a move to the right side by Flowers.
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Maybe it's not so much "hysterics" but rather a great, big "yawn" when it comes to the signing of Will Beatty. He is not the answer in raising the overall quality of the O-line unit. He's the best the Giants can do at this late stage -- he adds a little back-up glue to a thin offense line that will need lots of serious attention in the 2017 off-season.
I see that as an important upgrade.
It's a bit disappointing to go in the reverse direction of a good decision, imv.
you make it sound like TC signed these players you speak of lol
No plan.
No plan.
I don't assign fault here. Money was not an issue. Players worthy of that money were..
I've been a Reese guy but I do assign blame. There were offensive linemen on the market that cost a fraction of what we spent.
We can spend all the money on defense we want. This team is still only going where Eli takes it. To put him behind that right side is tough to justify.
Yeah, that wasn't directed at you.
I've been a Reese guy but I do assign blame. There were offensive linemen on the market that cost a fraction of what we spent.
We can spend all the money on defense we want. This team is still only going where Eli takes it. To put him behind that right side is tough to justify.
WHO? Osemele?
I wanted Conklin, but he went before us.
Who were the two noteworthy LTs out there? Russ Okung, a failed first-round pick his own team didn't really want (and who's name travels a lot more than his actual skill level) or Ryan Clady, a consistently injured big name player his team didn't really want.
The only other player of note is Mitchell Schwartz, who signed a deal that puts him in the highest paid players at his position.
OTs - ( New Window )
Osemele got 60/5 and Schwartz got 5/33. So yes, infinitely more.
Who gives a fuck about Jenkins? It's not like the dumped all resources on him- They didn't.
They clearly explored OTs.....
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I can't look now but did Osemele and Schwartz combined even cost as much as Jenkins?
Osemele got 60/5 and Schwartz got 5/33. So yes, infinitely more.
Guaranteed? And I believe that non-guaranteed money is still less than Vernon.
There wasn't an OT to be had. Okung is a major injury risk, let's see if he makes it through the year.
And have you explored the possibility that Osemele/Schwartz never wanted to play here?
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In comment 13096630 Go Terps said:
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I can't look now but did Osemele and Schwartz combined even cost as much as Jenkins?
Osemele got 60/5 and Schwartz got 5/33. So yes, infinitely more.
Guaranteed? And I believe that non-guaranteed money is still less than Vernon.
Guarantees:
Osemele: $25.4
Schwartz: $20.7
Vernon was $85m ($54m guaranteed). It wasn't less.