for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

If we're trying now to improve the OL, how about

That’s Gold, Jerry : 8/30/2016 4:07 pm
Joe Thomas from Cleveland or Luke Joeckel from Jacksonville. Bear with me for a second...we have to admit that the Beatty signing has a lot of questions. Some of mine are is he in football shape? Was this a depth signing or is some shifting going to be done on the offensive line? To me, Beatty was cheap and we know him but I'm not sure he is that much of an upgrade unless they plan to move Flowers to RT. Beatty was always hurt and does not have what is the required toughness to play full time.

Cleveland is in a major rebuild and getting rid of a lot of older players. They crave draft picks...why not give them a no. 1 for Thomas? We would have a huge upgrade at LT and Flowers could move to RT where many think he would be a perennial all pro. Then there is Joeckel who is in the final year of his deal with Jacksonville and has been moved inside to guard. We could still move Flowers over to RT.

Are we all in, here, or what is this Beatty signing really about because, quite frankly, I think it is just for depth.

Over to you...blast away
Not a fan  
djstat : 8/30/2016 4:09 pm : link
Of giving a 1st round pick for a 8+ year vet
I'm just not giving up a #1 pick for a 31 year old lineman  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/30/2016 4:11 pm : link
The Giants haven't demonstrated that they're anywhere near close enough to a super bowl team to justify that risk v. reward.

Maybe you should  
lecky : 8/30/2016 4:14 pm : link
check out Joeckel's highlights from the other day. Looks like he will fit right in with this group
RE: Not a fan  
OC2.0 : 8/30/2016 4:14 pm : link
In comment 13094819 djstat said:
Quote:
Of giving a 1st round pick for a 8+ year vet


Same here
The best you can do this year....  
Reb8thVA : 8/30/2016 4:18 pm : link
is to work on improving your depth and prepare a real plan to improve the OL next off season.
Giving a #1 for a 31 year old tackle  
scouser : 8/30/2016 4:21 pm : link
is going back to the bad years of the 60s and 70s when Wellington was trying to play GM.

As for Joeckel, Jacksonville declined to pick up the 5th year option for him. They've moved him to guard and he was thrown around like a rag doll in Sunday's exhibition. Hell, the guy who beat him out at tackle made his pre-season debut Sunday after coming back from knee surgery last year.
I think they will try to add an interior linemen with the cuts  
Rjanyg : 8/30/2016 4:24 pm : link
As for next year, they need to get a young guard and the best TE available in the draft next year. Imagine a road grader at Right Guard along with a true 2 way TE that can hold a block.
Joeckel had a rough day against Geno Atkins (who doesn't)  
regulator : 8/30/2016 4:41 pm : link
but I agree that he has been a major disappointment since going #2 overall. I think it's fair to say that with Joeckel at LG, JAX isn't getting great value for that pick, and our choice of Pugh certainly compares favorably to some of the other linemen picked ahead of him (for instance, Lane Johnson, Jonathan Cooper).
If we were a better overall team  
jvm52106 : 8/30/2016 5:00 pm : link
I would say hell yeah. But, we are still not that good and just can't see giving away what it would cost to get Thomas. But, John Sullivan (Vikings) and Patrick lewis (Seahawks) could provide depth at Center and Guard. Gotta be better than what we have now backing up. Hart is not the answer at backup Guard or Tackle.
I always assumed they were going to get a new starter  
chris r : 8/30/2016 5:02 pm : link
on the right side. It's one of the worst right sides in the league and even adding an average player there and bumping one of the two guys to the bench would be huge.

I'm not giving away any #1s for a 31 year old Lineman  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/30/2016 5:04 pm : link
I don;t care how good he is
Can Thomas' salary fit under the cap?  
njm : 8/30/2016 5:06 pm : link
That's the first question.
Giving up a 1st round pick for any player is not a good move,  
GeorgeFox : 8/30/2016 5:38 pm : link
to give up one for a 31 year old OL is just plain stupid!
Hurt our chances at resigning OBJ, Pugh, Richburg, Hankins, and JPP  
David in LA : 8/30/2016 6:07 pm : link
because we want a 31 year old LT. Sounds like a pragmatic approach with the long term in mind.
Bad move.  
Spider 67 : 8/30/2016 6:28 pm : link
The only way they will move Flowers is for a young, sure fire, long term pro bowl type left tackle. They showed this past spring they won't move him for older, 2-3 yr fixes. They probably felt it is easier to find a right tackle than a left. They were wrong, at least this year.

As for trading a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rd pick for anyone, only if it puts them in the Super bowl or for that extra special player. Bill Parcells gave up a 1st for Curtis Martin when he was with the Jets. That worked. But most don't. The Giants traded many high picks in the early 60's for established star players that put their very good team in the championship game 3 years in a row. But come the 4th year, they were done and the team dropped to last place.
This is not baseball or basketball  
ThatLimerickGuy : 8/30/2016 6:33 pm : link
There is no really no incentive to trade for a guy

"on the last year of his contract"

It doesn't work like that. An NFL player can very rarely just plop onto the field with a new team and produce. Every team runs complex schemes. In MLB it's- hey go hit and play right field like you have been doing since you were 13.

In essence, your idea gets a D-.
RE: This is not baseball or basketball  
Big Blue '56 : 8/30/2016 6:49 pm : link
In comment 13095133 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
There is no really no incentive to trade for a guy

"on the last year of his contract"

It doesn't work like that. An NFL player can very rarely just plop onto the field with a new team and produce. Every team runs complex schemes. In MLB it's- hey go hit and play right field like you have been doing since you were 13.

In essence, your idea gets a D-.


I think we should throw them a 5th..They're stupid enough to bite..😜
Not sure the Jags are ready to give up on Joeckel  
Beer Man : 8/30/2016 7:49 pm : link
Sure they chose not to take the fifth year option, but he has been starting at LT for them during the preseason
RE: Hurt our chances at resigning OBJ, Pugh, Richburg, Hankins, and JPP  
chris r : 8/31/2016 7:21 pm : link
In comment 13095101 David in LA said:
Quote:
because we want a 31 year old LT. Sounds like a pragmatic approach with the long term in mind.


Not protect your 35 year old franchise QB sounds pragmatic to you?
RE: This is not baseball or basketball  
SGMen : 8/31/2016 8:09 pm : link
In comment 13095133 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
There is no really no incentive to trade for a guy

"on the last year of his contract"

It doesn't work like that. An NFL player can very rarely just plop onto the field with a new team and produce. Every team runs complex schemes. In MLB it's- hey go hit and play right field like you have been doing since you were 13.

In essence, your idea gets a D-.
Exactly, and this is especially true for OL and DL as they must "coordinate" efforts. The only positions that make sense for a late trade are K, P and maybe a CB (outside). I know a guy can come in late and figure it out in say 2 weeks but he'll make mistakes galore and learn on the job.

Beatty makes sense cause he knows the offensive system from 2014 and 2015 study at least. It is a shame we could not sign him even 2 weeks earlier so he got some camp in and a chance to work with Solari.

I figure it will be about between week 3 to even 6 before we see Beatty in any capacity. I just think it will take time for him to re-learn the offense and its new wrinkles plus get into "game shape".
Really wanted  
giantgiantfan : 8/31/2016 8:26 pm : link
the Giants to address RG/LG in the off season which would have given them a ton of flexibility. That, with Hart, would insulate the Gians from an injury to Flowers, Pugh, or Newhouse. With this signing...even more.

But I guess there were no options available, price was too high, or they just didn't care. We gonna roll with this squad, maybe we'll grab someone off of waivers or grab a vet post-week 1 when I think salaries are no longer guaranteed.

I like our changes week 1 against the Romo-less and defense-less Cowboys. We invested a chunk of change and a chunk of weight on the defensive line this off season which hopefully will either neutralize or at least slow down that Dallas offensive line.
Signing Beatty should  
mrvax : 8/31/2016 11:04 pm : link
push Newhouse back to the bench. Beatty to RT or LT. Maybe takes a few weeks.
Just 3 points  
chopperhatch : 9/1/2016 2:29 am : link
1) I would absolutely never give up a 1st for a 30 plus year old linemen. Not one dominant OL I can think of (not Walter Jones, not Orlando Pace, not Jonathan Ogden) amounted to much once they got close to the 10 year mark except for Bruce Matthews. And if you told me in '93 I could have Matthews for a 1st, I'd tell you to GFY. Trading a pick for a decade old OL is the epitome of betting stupid. A 4thand a player? Okay...keep talking.

2) I agree that signing Beatty to play RT is not ideal and that sliding Flowers over there for a year or two could help him find his groove instead of just being mediocre at LT. It would improve two positions on the line and give is more depth.

3) Beatty is much better than Newslouch on every day of the week thAT ends in "y"
sounds like someone was listening to  
eli4life : 9/1/2016 2:52 am : link
Moving the chains today.
Back to the Corner