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Fantasy Football Etiquette Question..

arcarsenal : 8/30/2016 8:35 pm
So I am in a 12 team league with a bunch of people.. a handful of them are friends of mine. A few are friends of friends. We have our draft tomorrow night and a couple of the guys in the league just basically admitted that they use the FantasyPros "Draft Wizard".. basically this is a paid service that links up to your draft and you input all of the settings and everything and it more or less tells you who to draft in real time.

It gives you the suggestion based on consensus "expert" rankings basically the way their website does.. it takes everything into account, your positions, what you still need, etc.. it basically takes all the leg work and thought out of drafting. I'm sure it's not perfect but for someone like me, who has done countless mocks and my own research and formed my own opinions of players.. I'll admit, it annoys me that people are using this.

It feels really fucking cheap and shitty. It's only a $50 league and I'm positive I can still draft a team of my own just as good as these stupid computers can but it still bothers me. Am I out of line for calling these dudes out and telling them I think it's essentially "cheating" ?
That's just so bizarre to me  
Sonic Youth : 8/30/2016 8:37 pm : link
drafting is one of the most parts of being in a FF league.

I'd be annoyed, but chances are they'd just sit there and make whatever picks were on the draft board built by that same company anyway.

And on top of that, the chances are also that you'll beat those computer generated teams.
Pretty weak  
pjcas18 : 8/30/2016 8:39 pm : link
not sure if it's cheating or not, but why bother to be in a league if you have to pay someone to draft for you.
Even the "experts" are wrong.  
Gmen1982 : 8/30/2016 8:39 pm : link
No one knows who will breakout, get injured, etc
it's not cheating  
SirYesSir : 8/30/2016 8:40 pm : link
everyone that's downloading rankings is essentially doing the same thing

i agree it's lame, but that's the world we're living in
its 4.99......buy it if bothers you  
George from PA : 8/30/2016 8:40 pm : link
Cheat sheets are basiclly the same thing.....


The key is always....luck and hitting on some late round sleepers and good use of waiver wire
I wouldn't like it either  
steve in ky : 8/30/2016 8:41 pm : link
and really half the fun of FF is drafting so they are the ones missing out but you have nothing to gain by complaining about it and calling them out as cheaters. IMO unless your league has rules against it nothing good will come of doing that.

I really don't see what  
Mike from SI : 8/30/2016 8:41 pm : link
the fun in that is. If you need a few hundred dollars that badly, join Draft Kings and test your algos there. Most of the fun in fantasy is beating your friends and rubbing it in their faces. My league and I still talk shit about several seasons ago.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/30/2016 8:42 pm : link
I guess it's not really "cheating" as much as it's taking a major shortcut.. I don't know, drafting my own team has always been the most enjoyable part of a league for me.

I drafted my 10 team league team the other night with nothing. I jotted down a few notes beforehand and referenced some rankings a couple times if I wanted to double check on recent news on a player or something but that was it. Meanwhile these guys are paying for services that do everything for them.

Whatever, I'm just going to draft a better team than theirs and talk shit the entire season and make them feel like losers.
I'd be courious to hear how they did  
ZogZerg : 8/30/2016 8:48 pm : link
I don't think it will really help them much more than a cheat sheet. All that shit is based on their rankings, which are crap shoot to begin with.
umm  
mdthedream : 8/30/2016 8:50 pm : link
isn't that what is happening when you draft with yahoo? They rank the players all that most people do is use the info and pick by pos and personal likes. I hate because I do a ton of research but its not going to change. Its like waiver pickups they tell very one who is the hot pickups for the week. I wish they would just leave it open as free agents.
RE: I'd be courious to hear how they did  
arcarsenal : 8/30/2016 8:54 pm : link
In comment 13095289 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
I don't think it will really help them much more than a cheat sheet. All that shit is based on their rankings, which are crap shoot to begin with.


It's based on "consensus" rankings.. so it takes like a whole ton of rankings and condenses them and averages them out.
RE: umm  
arcarsenal : 8/30/2016 8:55 pm : link
In comment 13095293 mdthedream said:
Quote:
isn't that what is happening when you draft with yahoo? They rank the players all that most people do is use the info and pick by pos and personal likes. I hate because I do a ton of research but its not going to change. Its like waiver pickups they tell very one who is the hot pickups for the week. I wish they would just leave it open as free agents.


No, it's not. Yahoo doesn't give you a short list of who to take every time your turn is up with a percentage.
not cheating  
Dankbeerman : 8/30/2016 9:00 pm : link
but they deffinately deserve to hear some crap about it.

its like using a sperm doner vs getting your partner pregnant. you get a kid at the end either way but its better if its yours even if it gets your crappy genes
It would bother me, too  
bigbluehoya : 8/30/2016 9:13 pm : link
But the best way to handle it is beat them and talk shit every step of the way.
Who cares?  
robbieballs2003 : 8/30/2016 9:16 pm : link
They base a lot of it off ADP. I used their rankingz as a guide but I don't really like their rankings passed 30 or 40 or so. What is the difference between that and what any other site allows with their projections. If you did your homework you are in a better position than thet will be.
meh, it's just a slightly better tool than a cheat sheet  
YAJ2112 : 8/30/2016 9:28 pm : link
also makes them predictable... just find a copy of the fantasy pros rankings and you can snipe players you like by taking them slightly earlier than the tool would tell those guys to take them
lighten up francis  
mattlawson : 8/30/2016 9:30 pm : link
.
My league is run through the NFL.com website.  
smshmth8690 : 8/30/2016 9:56 pm : link
Our draft is tomorrow night, but I've got work, so it looks like NFL.com is picking my team for me.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/30/2016 9:58 pm : link
I'm not even really worried about them winding up with better teams than me because of it.. just seems cheap. Like, what's the point? I feel like if I left my team in the hands of algorithms and computers, it would be so much less enjoyable.
Just enjoy your team and don't let them doing that impact your fun  
steve in ky : 8/30/2016 10:00 pm : link
.
RE: .  
robbieballs2003 : 8/30/2016 10:21 pm : link
In comment 13095401 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I'm not even really worried about them winding up with better teams than me because of it.. just seems cheap. Like, what's the point? I feel like if I left my team in the hands of algorithms and computers, it would be so much less enjoyable.


Exactly. Worry about your own team and let the other owners worry about their team. Relax. Have fun. It isn't your job to determine the level of fun other owners are having.
It would  
NJGiantFan84 : 8/30/2016 11:05 pm : link
Also annoy me, but its just another form of research, although cheap research. I have used sites that rank based upon settings as an additional source in the past, but never in real time and never did I follow it exclusively.

I wouldnt say anything, though other than to make fun of them. I wouldnt make it an issue. But its annoying and cheap for sure.
Go Try Fantasy Pro Mock  
TomersJewels : 8/31/2016 12:27 am : link
You will see exactly the recommendations that your league mates will be getting. I think the recommendations kinda suck. I've done a ton of FantasyPro mocks and rarely follow their recommended player. TAke a look it is not very sophisticated. Not much more than their consensus rankings.

Finally a topic to make me reactivate/recreate my account that has been toast since the hacking. Never really posted on anything but ff topics.
Pretty weak if you ask me  
Kulish29 : 8/31/2016 2:04 am : link
My brother Nick in LA and I co-own a team in a money league and, we have a live, face to face draft with all of the other owners every year. No computers or cellphones allowed. Who you draft is based on research you've done beforehand.

The guys you play with in this league might as well let the computer auto draft for them.
Not cheating but def taking the easy way out  
leatherneck570 : 8/31/2016 5:25 am : link
There really no upper hand in drafting based on ADP. FF is a crap shoot and championships are not won at the draft. I'd call them out and bust their balls a little bit, but wouldn't go so far as to call it cheating.
If this bothers you  
ron mexico : 8/31/2016 7:45 am : link
I suggest you get a life

Eh  
leatherneck570 : 8/31/2016 7:57 am : link
it would bother me a little too and definitely shame worthy but not enough to lose my cool over.
arcarsenal  
FJ : 8/31/2016 8:19 am : link
Do you use information on players from the Internet, or do you watch every preseason game and run around to all the teams' training camps to evaluate the players live in action by yourself? If you use research, projections and rankings from the Internet, I don't see what you're complaining about - this sounds like the same thing, perhaps in a simpler, consolidated form.
RE: If this bothers you  
arcarsenal : 8/31/2016 8:22 am : link
In comment 13095636 ron mexico said:
Quote:
I suggest you get a life


LOL.. I'm good, thanks for the useless input.

It was just a question since it's a money league. I was curious as to how other people would view it.

I don't think all of you really understand how what I am describing works since you keep comparing it to regular rankings. But it's all good.

Just seems weak to me. I'm not quitting the league or kicking them out because of it.
Arc  
EricJ : 8/31/2016 8:40 am : link
honestly, I have subscribed to those things in the past. It really does not give those guys an advantage. The only thing it does is reinforce what you were already thinking, or makes you second guess yourself and end up picking a different player who ends up being a bust.

There is so much about fantasy football that you cannot control (novice or experts). Plus, what those sites cannot help you with is suggesting players by how some coaches manage their team, or whether there are a certain number of QBs already taken and if you want a good one you better take one now vs the WR that the site is recommending.

You can dominate your league if you study what each team/coach wants to do with their offense. Learn who the go-to guys are and I dont mean the obvious players that will go in the first two rounds. Stay away from players on certain teams and lean towards players who are on teams that will score a lot = more opportunity.

Dont waste your time with defenses and kickers until your last two picks
I had a guy use this in my draft.  
Keith : 8/31/2016 9:22 am : link
I don't think it's cheating, I don't care, but it's still lame. How is that fun?

That being said, I don't agree with a lot of these lists and we all have our own opinion. At the end of the day, I think it only gives you a very small advantage. To me, fantasy football is 50% draft, 25% luck and 25% management. So at the draft, these programs(which aren't much different than the lists we use), gives him a very small advantage.

I'll get extra enjoyment beating this guy and I'll be sure to let him know about it.
Im shocked by the responses here  
ThatLimerickGuy : 8/31/2016 9:23 am : link
You do know if say you have a league from cbs the cheat sheets you print from the sight are league specific right?

What is the difference between bringing a print out and crossing off the names as they are picked?

Also, in that app, which i use to track the draft, yoi can go in and manually move guys up and down.
RE: Im shocked by the responses here  
arcarsenal : 8/31/2016 9:25 am : link
In comment 13095804 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
You do know if say you have a league from cbs the cheat sheets you print from the sight are league specific right?

What is the difference between bringing a print out and crossing off the names as they are picked?

Also, in that app, which i use to track the draft, yoi can go in and manually move guys up and down.


The difference is that a cheat sheet doesn't sync up with your draft in real time and tell you who to pick when you are up based on who is left in the pool, what positions you need filled and who the best players available are.

I feel like it takes all the fun out of drafting and is really lame. But like I said.. I'm not going to leave the league over it I am just going to draft a better team myself and give them shit all year.
RE: RE: Im shocked by the responses here  
EricJ : 8/31/2016 9:29 am : link
In comment 13095809 arcarsenal said:
Quote:


I feel like it takes all the fun out of drafting and is really lame.


Then those guys are missing out on the fun. I agree that drafting is fun. I am in some yahoo leagues and I do the mock drafts when I have time. You get that "fun" you are talking about as often as you want.
RE: RE: Im shocked by the responses here  
YAJ2112 : 8/31/2016 9:46 am : link
In comment 13095809 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13095804 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


You do know if say you have a league from cbs the cheat sheets you print from the sight are league specific right?

What is the difference between bringing a print out and crossing off the names as they are picked?

Also, in that app, which i use to track the draft, yoi can go in and manually move guys up and down.



The difference is that a cheat sheet doesn't sync up with your draft in real time and tell you who to pick when you are up based on who is left in the pool, what positions you need filled and who the best players available are.

I feel like it takes all the fun out of drafting and is really lame. But like I said.. I'm not going to leave the league over it I am just going to draft a better team myself and give them shit all year.


arc, I've used a few different versions of those tools myself (through free trials or other incentives) to test them out to see if I'm missing out on anything. Anyone who is using them without adding their own reasoning is not gaining any advantage on you.

Are they building a better team than they would on their own? Probably, but from a competitive standpoint what difference does it make whether a tool is doing it or they actually spent the time to come to that answer on their own. At the end of the day, you'll be better off from making your own informed decisions rather than going off a generic template, no matter how sophisticated it might be.
arc  
Chicken Teriyaki Boy : 8/31/2016 10:05 am : link
Are you a Luddite? Is this league set up on-line or do you get the stats from a newspaper and tally the scores at the end of every week?
RE: RE: RE: Im shocked by the responses here  
arcarsenal : 8/31/2016 10:09 am : link
In comment 13095861 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
In comment 13095809 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 13095804 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


You do know if say you have a league from cbs the cheat sheets you print from the sight are league specific right?

What is the difference between bringing a print out and crossing off the names as they are picked?

Also, in that app, which i use to track the draft, yoi can go in and manually move guys up and down.



The difference is that a cheat sheet doesn't sync up with your draft in real time and tell you who to pick when you are up based on who is left in the pool, what positions you need filled and who the best players available are.

I feel like it takes all the fun out of drafting and is really lame. But like I said.. I'm not going to leave the league over it I am just going to draft a better team myself and give them shit all year.



arc, I've used a few different versions of those tools myself (through free trials or other incentives) to test them out to see if I'm missing out on anything. Anyone who is using them without adding their own reasoning is not gaining any advantage on you.

Are they building a better team than they would on their own? Probably, but from a competitive standpoint what difference does it make whether a tool is doing it or they actually spent the time to come to that answer on their own. At the end of the day, you'll be better off from making your own informed decisions rather than going off a generic template, no matter how sophisticated it might be.


I guess because one guy in the league is bragging about how it won him "4 championships in 5 years" it's rubbing me the wrong way. But those leagues were probably filled with dopes. It won't work in this one.
RE: arc  
arcarsenal : 8/31/2016 10:12 am : link
In comment 13095887 Chicken Teriyaki Boy said:
Quote:
Are you a Luddite? Is this league set up on-line or do you get the stats from a newspaper and tally the scores at the end of every week?


Of course it's set up online. Again, you're going to tell me having a cheat sheet and crossing off players as they are drafted is the same thing as running a program that syncs with your draft that uses a bunch of algorithms and tells you who to take on a pick by pick basis? Okay.. I don't agree.
4 in 5  
giants#1 : 8/31/2016 10:18 am : link
the guy is probably full of shit or playing with toddlers.

Think of it another way, any guy using this is likely doing minimal research so when some injuries strike or guys struggle (which will happen), he'll be underprepared to deal with it compared to everyone doing their own research.
If they told you that you had to use that tool,  
Mr. Bungle : 8/31/2016 10:19 am : link
that would be uncool.

But if you still get to build your team the way you like to, I don't really see the problem.
plus it kills the fun  
giants#1 : 8/31/2016 10:21 am : link
it's not like you even get bragging rights if you happen to win since someone else won your league for you. And the draft is the best part of fantasy.
What a loser.  
BrettNYG10 : 8/31/2016 10:22 am : link
.
Just call them cowards  
JoeMoney19 : 8/31/2016 10:24 am : link
and draft yourself like a man. The experts are always wrong anyway.
RE: plus it kills the fun  
arcarsenal : 8/31/2016 10:30 am : link
In comment 13095923 giants#1 said:
Quote:
it's not like you even get bragging rights if you happen to win since someone else won your league for you. And the draft is the best part of fantasy.


That's basically my main point. Like if one of these guys win now, everyone's just gonna make jokes about it and if their teams suck, it'll be even funnier.
I think i get it.  
ThatLimerickGuy : 8/31/2016 11:10 am : link
You are pissed because you put in extra work to do your own analysis and then these guys show up with something automated. Like if you spent a day digging a ditch with a shovel and then a guy comes by next to you and does his with a backhoe and acts like he is more efficient. Well guess what? He is.

My advice? Buy a backhoe for $4.99 or get to sweating.

I use the app. I use it to pre-rank my guys and manage the live draft to see who is taken or not. The tool is powerful. You can adjust it based on whether you value security or potential, and you can even prioritize positions.

To be honest, if they just download and go using the default rankings you are WAAAY ahead of the game. Their defaults aren't that good.
RE: I think i get it.  
arcarsenal : 8/31/2016 11:18 am : link
In comment 13096022 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
You are pissed because you put in extra work to do your own analysis and then these guys show up with something automated. Like if you spent a day digging a ditch with a shovel and then a guy comes by next to you and does his with a backhoe and acts like he is more efficient. Well guess what? He is.

My advice? Buy a backhoe for $4.99 or get to sweating.

I use the app. I use it to pre-rank my guys and manage the live draft to see who is taken or not. The tool is powerful. You can adjust it based on whether you value security or potential, and you can even prioritize positions.

To be honest, if they just download and go using the default rankings you are WAAAY ahead of the game. Their defaults aren't that good.


I don't think you're talking about the same thing.. this site they subscribe to is like 20-30 bucks.

And I don't want something telling me who to draft. It takes all the fun out of it for me. I think it's just the principle.

Anyway, I'm really not that pissed about it. I was annoyed when I found out but I'm over it. Like I said, it just seems cheap.
RE: RE: arc  
Chicken Teriyaki Boy : 8/31/2016 1:50 pm : link
In comment 13095907 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13095887 Chicken Teriyaki Boy said:


Quote:


Are you a Luddite? Is this league set up on-line or do you get the stats from a newspaper and tally the scores at the end of every week?



Of course it's set up online. Again, you're going to tell me having a cheat sheet and crossing off players as they are drafted is the same thing as running a program that syncs with your draft that uses a bunch of algorithms and tells you who to take on a pick by pick basis? Okay.. I don't agree.


In terms of likelihood of success, they're the same. Essentially no different than auto drafting.

Unless the projections on that site are from the Sports Almanac in Back the Future.
Arc, I think you're justified in how you feel  
Mike in Philly : 8/31/2016 3:21 pm : link
but i don't think this gives them a competitive edge. Doing the draft is just one part of the fantasy experience, the other parts are the waiver and trades. How often do you end a season with the players you drafted?

These guys are not doing their homework and it's going to come back and bite them.
RE: RE: I think i get it.  
ThatLimerickGuy : 8/31/2016 4:00 pm : link
In comment 13096039 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13096022 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


You are pissed because you put in extra work to do your own analysis and then these guys show up with something automated. Like if you spent a day digging a ditch with a shovel and then a guy comes by next to you and does his with a backhoe and acts like he is more efficient. Well guess what? He is.

My advice? Buy a backhoe for $4.99 or get to sweating.

I use the app. I use it to pre-rank my guys and manage the live draft to see who is taken or not. The tool is powerful. You can adjust it based on whether you value security or potential, and you can even prioritize positions.

To be honest, if they just download and go using the default rankings you are WAAAY ahead of the game. Their defaults aren't that good.



I don't think you're talking about the same thing.. this site they subscribe to is like 20-30 bucks.

And I don't want something telling me who to draft. It takes all the fun out of it for me. I think it's just the principle.

Anyway, I'm really not that pissed about it. I was annoyed when I found out but I'm over it. Like I said, it just seems cheap.


The app for the draft is $4.99 on google play store or itunes. You are talking about a year long subscription to footballguys.com

I don't subscribe to that or anything else but if someone does I say ore power to them.

Also, it could be that the guys are in more than one league, so the $50 buy in may not be relevant.
Just give them hell  
allstarjim : 9/1/2016 12:49 am : link
When they lose. A lot of it.
Arc  
Kulish29 : 9/1/2016 1:03 am : link
Screw the ignorant mass on this thread who mock (pun unintended) or call you out as some sort of sore, whiny player. The fact is, the people you're playing with that take part in what you're describing are taking the easy road. There's no merit or honor in that.
I'll put time into baseball prep, not football  
aimrocky : 9/1/2016 6:06 am : link
It's a waste in the standard 12 team leagues. All the research in the world can't shield you from an injury to your star that ends your season. If it works for them, awesome.

A combination of expert rankings and a little personal knowledge is the best way to go. And the best part of Fantasy Football is NOT drafting your team. It's boozing at the draft live with your buddies. For a Father of two, I'd give anything for a night as an adult.
I'm in a keeper league  
Les in TO : 9/1/2016 6:25 am : link
Where a friend kept Calvin Johnson. We told him the bad news and he wants to retract the keeper though the deadline had passed for keepers. Most of us are friends but not all. Allow it or not?
RE: I'm in a keeper league  
Mike in NY : 9/1/2016 6:38 am : link
In comment 13097365 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Where a friend kept Calvin Johnson. We told him the bad news and he wants to retract the keeper though the deadline had passed for keepers. Most of us are friends but not all. Allow it or not?


I say allow it. Accidents happen and not everyone who plays fantasy follows it religiously. That is why in the keeper league I am in the commissioner asks that people e-mail him their keepers as well because it allows him to double check if a situation like this occurs. He also posts his keepers on the message board pretty quickly so it is not like he is seeing who everyone else is keeping and then chooses his keepers
RE: Arc  
ron mexico : 9/1/2016 6:59 am : link
In comment 13097328 Kulish29 said:
Quote:
Screw the ignorant mass on this thread who mock (pun unintended) or call you out as some sort of sore, whiny player. The fact is, the people you're playing with that take part in what you're describing are taking the easy road. There's no merit or honor in that.


Merit? Honor?
It's fucking fantasy football.

I play it and enjoy it but come on.
RE: I'm in a keeper league  
aimrocky : 9/1/2016 9:09 am : link
In comment 13097365 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Where a friend kept Calvin Johnson. We told him the bad news and he wants to retract the keeper though the deadline had passed for keepers. Most of us are friends but not all. Allow it or not?


Let him retract it. I'd rather it be an honest/competitive league then having one team destroy themselves before the season starts.
RE: RE: Arc  
aimrocky : 9/1/2016 9:11 am : link
In comment 13097375 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 13097328 Kulish29 said:

Merit? Honor?
It's fucking fantasy football.

I play it and enjoy it but come on.


Well said.
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