that he has a place in Secaucus, and I believe he just had a baby.
So he needed the paycheck. Players talk about location and loyalty, but 99% of the time it's all about the money. If the Eagles had made him a serious offer, Philadelphia is not far from Secaucus. But he didn't have the added value of already knowing the Eagles offense, so he wasn't worth it to them.
Part of it is money, but he might also not want to move so he can raise a family.
by Reese's quotes in there. He broke the bank for DRC and Jon Beason based on the Seahawks success of their back 7 and let Linval Joseph and Justin Tuck walk and our run defense took a nosedive. I love DRC for the record, I'm not rehashing anything here just stating that Reese keeps looking to SB winners to pattern himself after.
Now the Broncos win a SB with a menacing DL and speedy LBs and a so so offensive line and he says ours is close to theirs so it's all OK. I know things trend and turn in the NFL, but in all honesty can't he state what his organizational philosophy is and stick to it instead of trying to re-invent the roster every 3 years? McAdoo insists that you win on the lines, and duh you do but we took zero lineman in the draft and that's fine we have tons of holes and maybe the value didn't match up but it always seems like one position group on this team suffers badly each year. Last year it was the DL and OL and he fixed one of those, in previous years it's been secondary, WRs, LBs, TEs and on and on. You can't have 22 All Pros, I get you'll have to balance things but the lines should be first and foremost and he doesn't seem to buy that.
We've been pretty awful for 3 years and we keep bringing in garbage OL as backups and starters, something somewhere is broken in our evaluation of talent on the OL. Maybe it's league wide and pre CBA expectations need to be lowered when it comes to OL play.
I don't think anyone is claiming him a savior. However, neither were beat up and broken down Jake Long, beat up and breaking down Russell Okung or poor play, disinterested Eugene Monroe
If for more competition for the starters or depth either way this is a decent player compared to some of the garbage we have for O-line men now. So good move and it shows the brains of the outfit realized just how weak our oline is.
I hope he gets a chance to start at RT to see what he can do there or maybe they move Flowers over down the road a bit.
BEatty: Hello Mr. Reese, its Will Beatty
Reese:How you doing today WIll?
Beatty:Good...good...Mr. Reese, the OL has really struggled of late and I hate to see that. I know this team can be really good and win a bunch of games. The Giants were my home for my entire career, i want to come back. I want to help in any way possible. I want that OL to be special because I know if they play well our team will be special. I am in great shape, been working out, been working hard to come back to the game and there is no place i rather be than the giants. I have drawn interest from some other teams but they arent home. Give me a shot to compete for a spot whether as a starter or as a backup, i want to come back and i want the opportunity to contribute.
Reese: Will youre a standup guy, i appreciate the call. I will look over some things and we will get back to you soon. Again, i appreciate the call. Have a good day
by Reese's quotes in there. He broke the bank for DRC and Jon Beason based on the Seahawks success of their back 7 and let Linval Joseph and Justin Tuck walk and our run defense took a nosedive. I love DRC for the record, I'm not rehashing anything here just stating that Reese keeps looking to SB winners to pattern himself after.
Now the Broncos win a SB with a menacing DL and speedy LBs and a so so offensive line and he says ours is close to theirs so it's all OK. I know things trend and turn in the NFL, but in all honesty can't he state what his organizational philosophy is and stick to it instead of trying to re-invent the roster every 3 years? McAdoo insists that you win on the lines, and duh you do but we took zero lineman in the draft and that's fine we have tons of holes and maybe the value didn't match up but it always seems like one position group on this team suffers badly each year. Last year it was the DL and OL and he fixed one of those, in previous years it's been secondary, WRs, LBs, TEs and on and on. You can't have 22 All Pros, I get you'll have to balance things but the lines should be first and foremost and he doesn't seem to buy that.
We've been pretty awful for 3 years and we keep bringing in garbage OL as backups and starters, something somewhere is broken in our evaluation of talent on the OL. Maybe it's league wide and pre CBA expectations need to be lowered when it comes to OL play.
I think we've basically been spinning our wheels past few years because we had no "core" to build on. That's due to injuries (Nicks, Cruz, Philips, etc.),poor draft picks, and not keeping guys like LJ & Bennett (Though I understand)
Looks like we've build a core via the last 2-3 drafts + 2016 free agency.
Looks like OL is an issue all over the league. I think 2017 will be the year when we put the pieces in place for one big run with Eli.
by Reese's quotes in there. He broke the bank for DRC and Jon Beason based on the Seahawks success of their back 7 and let Linval Joseph and Justin Tuck walk and our run defense took a nosedive. I love DRC for the record, I'm not rehashing anything here just stating that Reese keeps looking to SB winners to pattern himself after.
Now the Broncos win a SB with a menacing DL and speedy LBs and a so so offensive line and he says ours is close to theirs so it's all OK. I know things trend and turn in the NFL, but in all honesty can't he state what his organizational philosophy is and stick to it instead of trying to re-invent the roster every 3 years? McAdoo insists that you win on the lines, and duh you do but we took zero lineman in the draft and that's fine we have tons of holes and maybe the value didn't match up but it always seems like one position group on this team suffers badly each year. Last year it was the DL and OL and he fixed one of those, in previous years it's been secondary, WRs, LBs, TEs and on and on. You can't have 22 All Pros, I get you'll have to balance things but the lines should be first and foremost and he doesn't seem to buy that.
We've been pretty awful for 3 years and we keep bringing in garbage OL as backups and starters, something somewhere is broken in our evaluation of talent on the OL. Maybe it's league wide and pre CBA expectations need to be lowered when it comes to OL play.
I think we've basically been spinning our wheels past few years because we had no "core" to build on. That's due to injuries (Nicks, Cruz, Philips, etc.),poor draft picks, and not keeping guys like LJ & Bennett (Though I understand)
Looks like we've build a core via the last 2-3 drafts + 2016 free agency.
Looks like OL is an issue all over the league. I think 2017 will be the year when we put the pieces in place for one big run with Eli.
I think our best chance might actually be this year. Are JPP and Hankins coming back next year? Secure the o-line and let's go on another run right now.
is ridiculous the Line still needs help IMO especially
at Center . I am Glad he chose to come back here
he is a good man and a very good player when healthy
and it sounds like he finally is .
Look at his Twitter page he Bleeds Blue and still has
the respect of guys like Richburg I hope he cracks
the lineup and excels
RE: It still doesn't explain why other teams weren't interested
Left tackle is a premium position. 32 teams in the league and with only two weeks until the season starts, he had to "clear the air" with the Giants in order to get an offer. And the offer was $1.1M with $750K in incentives. Not exactly starting quality OT money, is it?
Money talks, bullshit walks. And the money says William Beatty is not a savior. Air quality has gotten nothing to do with it.
Keep up. They were interested and he had two offers on the table and a visit to the Cardinals in the works.
Some of these beat writers should work for Pravda. Then again, most of you will believe anything.
RE: RE: It still doesn't explain why other teams weren't interested
Left tackle is a premium position. 32 teams in the league and with only two weeks until the season starts, he had to "clear the air" with the Giants in order to get an offer. And the offer was $1.1M with $750K in incentives. Not exactly starting quality OT money, is it?
Money talks, bullshit walks. And the money says William Beatty is not a savior. Air quality has gotten nothing to do with it.
Keep up. They were interested and he had two offers on the table and a visit to the Cardinals in the works.
Some of these beat writers should work for Pravda. Then again, most of you will believe anything.
Like how good Rueben Randle is and how hard he will be to replace, right?
But that's just teams doing their homework. And what kind of offers did he get? It doesn't cost anything to offer him a vet minimum deal with no guarantee of making the 53 man roster. If he had an attractive offer from another team, he would've signed it instead of waiting until August 30th to accept the deal with the Giants.
Teams were kicking the tires, nobody was courting him. He had added value with the Giants because he knows the offense, so it's only natural that they would be the team willing to offer more than the vet minimum. As for it being guaranteed, it was going to be guaranteed anyway once he made the roster for week one. And the incentive money is pretty paltry, too.
Nobody was saying "now there's a guy who can be our starting left tackle."
So your argument is Beatty sucks because he didn't get big offers from other teams?
There's plenty of reasons why teams would shy away. Maybe they wanted to stay away from a guy who's had 2 major injuries over the last few years. Maybe he got a bad rep around the league from the Giants talking with other teams about players (heart/toughness). Maybe teams wanted to trust their own players and scouting before signing a vet coming off an injury.
Beatty was an above average LT before the injury. Can he play at that level now? Is he motivated? Who knows, but it's worth a 1.1 mil investment considering the current status of the OL.
The posters calling him a backup or potential Newhouse replacement are selling him short.
is ridiculous the Line still needs help IMO especially
at Center . I am Glad he chose to come back here
he is a good man and a very good player when healthy
and it sounds like he finally is .
Look at his Twitter page he Bleeds Blue and still has
the respect of guys like Richburg I hope he cracks
the lineup and excels
I think it's basically because of how odd the whole situation is. If you look at the offseason as a whole, one of the biggest question marks was the O-Line. While we had some great signings to fill other holes the O-Line was not one of them. It could be that there were no actual solutions available, the fact we released WB was never really explained other than his inability to stay uninjured last season. We never even offered him a pay cut to stay, it was boom you're gone and left some scratching their heads. Fast forward to now, and here we resign WB after hearing for 5 weeks that the O-line will be fine despite their complete ineptitude to block anyone at all.
So why did it take us this long? Does this mean the theory of the front office that the line was going to be ok is wrong? Was this disagreement that had to be worked out ego based? Was WB dogging it last year like some suspect? Were there options during the offseason that were ignored and now we are scrambling? Is the WB signing more for a CYA for the front office so that they can claim they tried to fix it if it blows this year up? Is he the best option available given the circumstances?
By virtue of how this whole deal has gone down over the last 8 months, these questions are going to get asked
is ridiculous the Line still needs help IMO especially
at Center . I am Glad he chose to come back here
he is a good man and a very good player when healthy
and it sounds like he finally is .
Look at his Twitter page he Bleeds Blue and still has
the respect of guys like Richburg I hope he cracks
the lineup and excels
I think it's basically because of how odd the whole situation is. If you look at the offseason as a whole, one of the biggest question marks was the O-Line. While we had some great signings to fill other holes the O-Line was not one of them. It could be that there were no actual solutions available, the fact we released WB was never really explained other than his inability to stay uninjured last season. We never even offered him a pay cut to stay, it was boom you're gone and left some scratching their heads. Fast forward to now, and here we resign WB after hearing for 5 weeks that the O-line will be fine despite their complete ineptitude to block anyone at all.
So why did it take us this long? Does this mean the theory of the front office that the line was going to be ok is wrong? Was this disagreement that had to be worked out ego based? Was WB dogging it last year like some suspect? Were there options during the offseason that were ignored and now we are scrambling? Is the WB signing more for a CYA for the front office so that they can claim they tried to fix it if it blows this year up? Is he the best option available given the circumstances?
By virtue of how this whole deal has gone down over the last 8 months, these questions are going to get asked
Minny, I think it's simpler than that..Yes, I believe we tried and for various reasons(I think good ones from what I understand) the trigger(s) could never be pulled..
As to them realizing their present OL experiement failed, I believe they've NEVER stopped looking and that Beatty was nothing more than a spare part to fix their depth somewhat, whether he ultimately starts or not..I believe their ongoing search will not stop until their final 53 is set and possibly beyond..
is ridiculous the Line still needs help IMO especially
at Center . I am Glad he chose to come back here
he is a good man and a very good player when healthy
and it sounds like he finally is .
Look at his Twitter page he Bleeds Blue and still has
the respect of guys like Richburg I hope he cracks
the lineup and excels
I think it's basically because of how odd the whole situation is. If you look at the offseason as a whole, one of the biggest question marks was the O-Line. While we had some great signings to fill other holes the O-Line was not one of them. It could be that there were no actual solutions available, the fact we released WB was never really explained other than his inability to stay uninjured last season. We never even offered him a pay cut to stay, it was boom you're gone and left some scratching their heads. Fast forward to now, and here we resign WB after hearing for 5 weeks that the O-line will be fine despite their complete ineptitude to block anyone at all.
So why did it take us this long? Does this mean the theory of the front office that the line was going to be ok is wrong? Was this disagreement that had to be worked out ego based? Was WB dogging it last year like some suspect? Were there options during the offseason that were ignored and now we are scrambling? Is the WB signing more for a CYA for the front office so that they can claim they tried to fix it if it blows this year up? Is he the best option available given the circumstances?
By virtue of how this whole deal has gone down over the last 8 months, these questions are going to get asked
Minny, I think it's simpler than that..Yes, I believe we tried and for various reasons(I think good ones from what I understand) the trigger(s) could never be pulled..
As to them realizing their present OL experiement failed, I believe they've NEVER stopped looking and that Beatty was nothing more than a spare part to fix their depth somewhat, whether he ultimately starts or not..I believe their ongoing search will not stop until their final 53 is set and possibly beyond..
I hope you're correct buddy. I really had high hopes for this year but after watching these preseason games It really put a damper on my thoughts
BleedBlue : 1:49 pm : link : reply
Beatty:........I have drawn interest from some other teams but they arent home. Give me a shot to compete for a spot whether as a starter or as a backup, i want to come back and i want the opportunity to contribute.
Reese: Will youre a standup guy, i appreciate the call. I will look over some things and we will get back to you soon. Again, i appreciate the call. Have a good day
Secretary: Mr. Reese, I've scheduled a press conference for you to announce the signing of Beatty.
Reese: What? I was just blowing smoke up his ass.....Shit! Get me Beatty on the phone!
and now you know the rest of the story........
RE: RE: It still doesn't explain why other teams weren't interested
Left tackle is a premium position. 32 teams in the league and with only two weeks until the season starts, he had to "clear the air" with the Giants in order to get an offer. And the offer was $1.1M with $750K in incentives. Not exactly starting quality OT money, is it?
Money talks, bullshit walks. And the money says William Beatty is not a savior. Air quality has gotten nothing to do with it.
several beat writers reported he had offers (at least one others) and other interest. he maybe figured if he's going to be a backup why not be a backup close to home. Just my guess.
And based on Giants OL performance in pre-season, he probably figured he'd have a good chance to crack the starting lineup at some point and increase his value once he hits FA again next off-season.
Nobody was going to give him starters OT money with his injury, makes sense for him to try to re-establish his value in a place he knows, and a system he played under.
This was a good, low cost signing for the Giants. When healthy, which he now appears to be, he is an above average LT. That's more than they have there right now. His first chance, however, appears to be at RT where the incumbent is not really giving you what you need. Beatty is much more athletic than him and he knows the system. If you were to poll all 32 teams as to who they'd rather have, Beatty or Newhouse, I'd wager that 25 would say Beatty. If he can handle RT, then we will most likely have a new starter by game 4. If Flowers does not improve soon, you now have a plug aond play LT. Worst case is you have a solid backup at either position which is important since Byron Stingly is done for the year.
No complaint with this move.
BleedBlue : 1:49 pm : link : reply
Beatty:........I have drawn interest from some other teams but they arent home. Give me a shot to compete for a spot whether as a starter or as a backup, i want to come back and i want the opportunity to contribute.
Reese: Will youre a standup guy, i appreciate the call. I will look over some things and we will get back to you soon. Again, i appreciate the call. Have a good day
Secretary: Mr. Reese, I've scheduled a press conference for you to announce the signing of Beatty.
Reese: What? I was just blowing smoke up his ass.....Shit! Get me Beatty on the phone!
and now you know the rest of the story........
we may be thanking a secretary shortly!
I for one like the addition...he CANNOT be worse than what we have as backups...he at one point was a proven player in the NFL and im glad to have him back, even if he is just depth, feel a LITTLE better if we suffer and injury
It is a long season, Beatty knows Mcadoo's offense, and Will is health
Even if we only need Beatty for parts of games and so forth he was still a good signing.
If Beatty starts on the left side for any reason, at least he knows the offense just not coach Solari's style. We did well here so long as Will Beatty is healthy and stay healthy.
first, the agents called the FO. then then the principals spoke. then Beatty worked out, then a deal was struck.
History..Before Beatty got hurt wasn't he rated the best LT in the league or close to it?
Why he was let go? Could be for a bunch of things including high expectation of Flowers. WAs he asked he asked to play hurt and refused?
Gentlemen, we're not writing fiction here. We don't know the answers and while I admire your imagination and the retelling of history with such literary license it really puts your foot ball knowledge to question even though the football knowledge is not in question.....but if you have poetic license in making these stories are you pulling Herr Drumpf magic by creating "facts" here?
I think our best chance might actually be this year. Are JPP and Hankins coming back next year? Secure the o-line and let's go on another run right now. [/quote]I believe we will make a run this year. This year reminds me of 2007 in the sense that our DL is looking good; Eli is good; and we appear to have had a solid rookie draft.
I think we will "surprise" this year. The "key" is to get WINs early as the team gels and get hot again late so we win the division. We caught fire with the injuries to Romo for game 1 and Bridgewater for game 4. We can win early and develop momentum. I hate winning against teams with less than QB's but this early in the season we are catching good luck fire.
...and I'm not saying anyone thought he would be a savior.
I'm just saying that him "clearing the air" with Reese had nothing to do with it. It's just spin. He took the best offer he could get and he had added value to the Giants based on familiarity with the offense, so it makes sense that they would be the team willing to offer more than the risk-free vet minimum.
I'm happy about the move. If he stays healthy, he is an upgrade to our depth and important insurance against Flowers shitting the bed. I'm actually more concerned about Flowers than I am about Newhouse. At least with Newhouse, you know what you're getting and you can scheme and game plan accordingly. With Flowers, it's hard to know what to expect. And that's scary.
Milton, how do you know his other offers were for the vet minimum?
there's been plenty of emphasis on both lines during Reese's tenure.
the problem isn't emphasis, but rather on the ability to scout both college and FA recruits.
The buck stops with Reese, but I blame a LOT of it on TC, and on the position coaches.
Ultimately, the prior regime (and partial current regime) has been a big failure at keeping the lines stocked, but that isn't due to a lack of trying.
.
Just don't forget the scouts if you want to assign blame,
a few of those being let go wouldn't have hurt when they
let TC go. I can't think of the last lineman drafted
after the 3rd Round who has done anything here,
not named Diehl. Diehl was not drafted under this GM.
That's all I have to say about that.
We can only speculate. Here's what I think happened:
Beatty's self-evaluation =/= the Giants expectations for him.
Giants were disappointed in the total amount of time he was unavailable to him, and were unwilling to keep him at his past salary. After drafting Flowers they decided he needed to take a paycut in order to stick around.
Beatty saw himself as a talented LT with plenty of opportunities around the league, was slighted by the selection of Flowers and the Giants idea that he could be easily replaced as a rookie. When approached about a restructure he told them to stick it and so they released him.
After rehabbing back to full strength he went back to the FA market, expecting at least average LT starter money. Unfortunately for him most of the FA dollars were already spent, and given his injury history teams were unwilling to commit to a big-dollar contract. He found a few teams who were willing but uncertainty about their organization and their willingness to commit to him caused him to rethink his willingness to work for the Giants. Hoping to get a better FA deal next year by proving himself this year, he decided it would be best for his family to stay at home and reduce the amount of moves he'd have to make by one.
Meanwhile, the Giants realized that a poor OL could sink this season's chances. With plenty of cap room and knowing what Beatty offered they were fine offering him an opportunity to compete for a spot on the OL, pending a physical and workout. The workout went well and so they crafted a deal with incentives so that Beatty could make decent money if he stayed healthy and got on the field. Beatty decided it was good enough, and VIOLA - he's a Giant.
Many BBI posters then went into a tizzy, because it's easier to say "it will never happen" than it is to keep an open mind on the issue, realizing the nuance of the situation.
Lots of arguments follow about what this means, and how it all went down, mostly so said posters can justify to themselves their previous opinions on Beatty, the front office, and the entire situation.
Very few admit that they just might be wrong about the whole situation.
P.S. All of the above is pure speculation and I can certainly be wrong about it.
got him on a great deal, he's healthy and in great shape, played well for us in the past, wants to be here, and we need help on the OL. People will complain about anything.
We can only speculate. Here's what I think happened:
Beatty's self-evaluation =/= the Giants expectations for him.
Giants were disappointed in the total amount of time he was unavailable to him, and were unwilling to keep him at his past salary. After drafting Flowers they decided he needed to take a paycut in order to stick around.
Beatty saw himself as a talented LT with plenty of opportunities around the league, was slighted by the selection of Flowers and the Giants idea that he could be easily replaced as a rookie. When approached about a restructure he told them to stick it and so they released him.
After rehabbing back to full strength he went back to the FA market, expecting at least average LT starter money. Unfortunately for him most of the FA dollars were already spent, and given his injury history teams were unwilling to commit to a big-dollar contract. He found a few teams who were willing but uncertainty about their organization and their willingness to commit to him caused him to rethink his willingness to work for the Giants. Hoping to get a better FA deal next year by proving himself this year, he decided it would be best for his family to stay at home and reduce the amount of moves he'd have to make by one.
Meanwhile, the Giants realized that a poor OL could sink this season's chances. With plenty of cap room and knowing what Beatty offered they were fine offering him an opportunity to compete for a spot on the OL, pending a physical and workout. The workout went well and so they crafted a deal with incentives so that Beatty could make decent money if he stayed healthy and got on the field. Beatty decided it was good enough, and VIOLA - he's a Giant.
Many BBI posters then went into a tizzy, because it's easier to say "it will never happen" than it is to keep an open mind on the issue, realizing the nuance of the situation.
Lots of arguments follow about what this means, and how it all went down, mostly so said posters can justify to themselves their previous opinions on Beatty, the front office, and the entire situation.
Very few admit that they just might be wrong about the whole situation.
P.S. All of the above is pure speculation and I can certainly be wrong about it.
Dan I think you may be pretty close to the truth here, the only thing to keep in mind is that the Giants never offered him a paycut deal
... was a much better player than his whipping boy status. He was more than serviceable for us when healthy. That said, as I mentioned before he is a depth signing (and a damn good one) right now until he proves otherwise. And if he works his way backing into the starting lineup? More power to him.
I'd still like to grab another guard though... not sure anyone worth signing is going to shake loose though.
We can only speculate. Here's what I think happened:
Beatty's self-evaluation =/= the Giants expectations for him.
Giants were disappointed in the total amount of time he was unavailable to him, and were unwilling to keep him at his past salary. After drafting Flowers they decided he needed to take a paycut in order to stick around.
Beatty saw himself as a talented LT with plenty of opportunities around the league, was slighted by the selection of Flowers and the Giants idea that he could be easily replaced as a rookie. When approached about a restructure he told them to stick it and so they released him.
After rehabbing back to full strength he went back to the FA market, expecting at least average LT starter money. Unfortunately for him most of the FA dollars were already spent, and given his injury history teams were unwilling to commit to a big-dollar contract. He found a few teams who were willing but uncertainty about their organization and their willingness to commit to him caused him to rethink his willingness to work for the Giants. Hoping to get a better FA deal next year by proving himself this year, he decided it would be best for his family to stay at home and reduce the amount of moves he'd have to make by one.
Meanwhile, the Giants realized that a poor OL could sink this season's chances. With plenty of cap room and knowing what Beatty offered they were fine offering him an opportunity to compete for a spot on the OL, pending a physical and workout. The workout went well and so they crafted a deal with incentives so that Beatty could make decent money if he stayed healthy and got on the field. Beatty decided it was good enough, and VIOLA - he's a Giant.
Many BBI posters then went into a tizzy, because it's easier to say "it will never happen" than it is to keep an open mind on the issue, realizing the nuance of the situation.
Lots of arguments follow about what this means, and how it all went down, mostly so said posters can justify to themselves their previous opinions on Beatty, the front office, and the entire situation.
Very few admit that they just might be wrong about the whole situation.
P.S. All of the above is pure speculation and I can certainly be wrong about it.
Dan I think you may be pretty close to the truth here, the only thing to keep in mind is that the Giants never offered him a paycut deal
Milton, how do you know his other offers were for the vet minimum?
The timeline of events and the offer he ultimately accepted from the Giants suggests any previous offer had to be either the vet minimum or close to it. My assumptions are based on the history of these types of deals at this time of year.
It's somewhat comparable to Leon Hall, who accepted the vet minimum of $885K from the Giants plus an additional $115K signing bonus and a $500K roster bonus tied to games played (I think). The vet minimum for Beatty was also $885K, so the $1.1M salary is just a skosh north of that and the fact that it's guaranteed isn't really meaningful because it was going to become guaranteed simply by his veteran status once the season started. As for the $750K in incentives, is it tied to starts, snaps, game day status, or roster status?
I doubt very much he turned down better offers from other teams but I guess it's possible. Just not likely.
Milton: You really ARE moving the goalposts, not just clarifying them.
Milton, how do you know his other offers were for the vet minimum?
Milton said:
Quote:
The timeline of events and the offer he ultimately accepted from the Giants suggests any previous offer had to be either the vet minimum or close to it. My assumptions are based on the history of these types of deals at this time of year.
It's somewhat comparable to Leon Hall, who accepted the vet minimum of $885K from the Giants plus an additional $115K signing bonus and a $500K roster bonus tied to games played (I think). The vet minimum for Beatty was also $885K, so the $1.1M salary is just a skosh north of that and the fact that it's guaranteed isn't really meaningful because it was going to become guaranteed simply by his veteran status once the season started. As for the $750K in incentives, is it tied to starts, snaps, game day status, or roster status?
I doubt very much he turned down better offers from other teams but I guess it's possible. Just not likely.
First of all, there's a big difference between a qualifying, veteran-minimum contract and something "a skosh north of that", because the skosh and guarantees render the contract ineligible for cap relief. A veteran-minimum contract looks like Kelvin Sheppard's or Bobby Rainey's, not Leon Hall's or Will Beatty's. If you think the difference is trivial, then explain why teams bother with qualifying deals.
Even your Hall analogy is highly questionable. Hall can be cut in the next week with minimal cap consequences, though I'm not among those who believe it will happen. Beatty will clearly make the team. And in terms of relocation, Hall is the opposite of Beatty: Hall left the team where he had spent nine seasons, to try and extend his career. It's reasonable to assume that the Giants' offer was the best he got. You can't make the same assumption with Beatty, for reasons that have been hammered home repeatedly in this thread and others. I doubt anyone offered significantly more than the Giants, but there's no basis for assuming that the Giants' offer stood out on the high side either.
Personally, I'm pleasantly surprised by Beatty. I really thought that he would retire when the confronted with the reality of his battered market value. Instead, he recommitted himself, got into shape and re-signed for "prove-it" money. If he's the Will Beatty of 2012 or 2014, this is a great move. If not, he still upgrades the OL depth.
And in terms of relocation, Hall is the opposite of Beatty: Hall left the team where he had spent nine seasons, to try and extend his career. It's reasonable to assume that the Giants' offer was the best he got. You can't make the same assumption with Beatty, for reasons that have been hammered home repeatedly in this thread and others. I doubt anyone offered significantly more than the Giants, but there's no basis for assuming that the Giants' offer stood out on the high side either.
If you don't want make that assumption, that's your right, but I feel comfortable with it. And yes, I think the difference between $885K and $1.1M is pretty minor even including the subsidy. It's not like the Giants were in cap hell and needed to lowball him.
Quote:
Personally, I'm pleasantly surprised by Beatty. I really thought that he would retire when the confronted with the reality of his battered market value. Instead, he recommitted himself, got into shape and re-signed for "prove-it" money. If he's the Will Beatty of 2012 or 2014, this is a great move. If not, he still upgrades the OL depth.
I agree with the part about him being an upgrade to the OL depth. He's good value for the price tag and I consider his return good news, mainly because I don't trust Flowers. But my enthusiasm is tempered by the fact that out of 32 teams, many of whom need help along the OL, he was only able to command a $1.1M deal with $750K in incentives. Money don't lie.
Money doesn't lie, but it can certainly mislead...
Beatty's new contract puts him in the same income bracket as Marshall Newhouse. That's where the similarity ends.
Newhouse is a try-hard swing tackle who probably won't hurt you too much if he has to start a few games. That's what the Giants signed him for, and that's what he remains, no matter how many snaps he takes because there isn't a better option at RT.
Beatty has a much higher ceiling (above-average starting LT in 2012 and 2014), but the questions about his health and motivation make him a gamble - especially in a new system, so close to the regular season. We'll never know how he might have fared in the March free agency period had he been fully rehabbed. It doesn't matter now. In any case, it's easy to understand why other teams would not have offered him much in late August, no matter how impressive he might have looked in workouts. If those factors worked to the Giants' advantage by pushing his value down, so much the better.
Good post. To nitpick, there's no gamble here imo, NOT
at his price..At best, he regains his form and contributes on a regular basis. At worst, he is a viable and probably versatile backup who helps our depth..
Win-win, especially at what we're paying him
We've spent two first round picks (including a top 10 pick),
and a second round pick in the past four years on offensive linemen, and our line still sucks. We've also spent big money in free agency on guys that are no longer here and barely lasted a season or two.
Now I'm not saying that these guys won't be good, or can't be good, but all of these high draft picks are in year 2, 3, or 4 since being picked.
When are we going to see some goddamned results? Our line has sucked for a really long time.
RE: Money doesn't lie, but it can certainly mislead...
Newhouse is a try-hard swing tackle who probably won't hurt you too much if he has to start a few games. That's what the Giants signed him for, and that's what he remains, no matter how many snaps he takes because there isn't a better option at RT.
I agree 100%. IMO, both players Marshall Newhouse and Beatty have hit their peak. The Beatty signing really helps to get an Oline through the season.
With all we've invested in the O-line for the past five years...
205 K is a big difference.when you're talking a 1000 K contract. Players balk over it, and teams have to be careful in throwing that kind of kaching around.
I think overall you're on the right track, but you're being a bit cavalier with people's livelihoods and how teams keep the budget under control. that includes the ability to use the vet minimum clause, which is thrown out the window here.
Obviously, he's not a highly sought after FA. but, the Giants made him the best offer. The guarantee is semi significant. He can come in and suck donkey balls and NY is still on the hook for his salary. Yes, it is likely he'll be on the roster for game one, but it also says the Giants are confident he's not going to suck donkey balls.
this is a good contract for all involved, once you factor in reality. Beatty wants to be paid huge dollars. Giants want a star LT. neither of those is reality.
the bottom line is that the offers were probably similar, and both the Giants and Beatty decided that this situation is the best fit, and a hundred grand here or there makes a difference in deciding the right fit.
Quote:
that he has a place in Secaucus, and I believe he just had a baby.
So he needed the paycheck. Players talk about location and loyalty, but 99% of the time it's all about the money. If the Eagles had made him a serious offer, Philadelphia is not far from Secaucus. But he didn't have the added value of already knowing the Eagles offense, so he wasn't worth it to them.
Part of it is money, but he might also not want to move so he can raise a family.
Now the Broncos win a SB with a menacing DL and speedy LBs and a so so offensive line and he says ours is close to theirs so it's all OK. I know things trend and turn in the NFL, but in all honesty can't he state what his organizational philosophy is and stick to it instead of trying to re-invent the roster every 3 years? McAdoo insists that you win on the lines, and duh you do but we took zero lineman in the draft and that's fine we have tons of holes and maybe the value didn't match up but it always seems like one position group on this team suffers badly each year. Last year it was the DL and OL and he fixed one of those, in previous years it's been secondary, WRs, LBs, TEs and on and on. You can't have 22 All Pros, I get you'll have to balance things but the lines should be first and foremost and he doesn't seem to buy that.
We've been pretty awful for 3 years and we keep bringing in garbage OL as backups and starters, something somewhere is broken in our evaluation of talent on the OL. Maybe it's league wide and pre CBA expectations need to be lowered when it comes to OL play.
Other teams were interested.
It is nothing but positive
I hope he gets a chance to start at RT to see what he can do there or maybe they move Flowers over down the road a bit.
Reese:How you doing today WIll?
Beatty:Good...good...Mr. Reese, the OL has really struggled of late and I hate to see that. I know this team can be really good and win a bunch of games. The Giants were my home for my entire career, i want to come back. I want to help in any way possible. I want that OL to be special because I know if they play well our team will be special. I am in great shape, been working out, been working hard to come back to the game and there is no place i rather be than the giants. I have drawn interest from some other teams but they arent home. Give me a shot to compete for a spot whether as a starter or as a backup, i want to come back and i want the opportunity to contribute.
Reese: Will youre a standup guy, i appreciate the call. I will look over some things and we will get back to you soon. Again, i appreciate the call. Have a good day
Now the Broncos win a SB with a menacing DL and speedy LBs and a so so offensive line and he says ours is close to theirs so it's all OK. I know things trend and turn in the NFL, but in all honesty can't he state what his organizational philosophy is and stick to it instead of trying to re-invent the roster every 3 years? McAdoo insists that you win on the lines, and duh you do but we took zero lineman in the draft and that's fine we have tons of holes and maybe the value didn't match up but it always seems like one position group on this team suffers badly each year. Last year it was the DL and OL and he fixed one of those, in previous years it's been secondary, WRs, LBs, TEs and on and on. You can't have 22 All Pros, I get you'll have to balance things but the lines should be first and foremost and he doesn't seem to buy that.
We've been pretty awful for 3 years and we keep bringing in garbage OL as backups and starters, something somewhere is broken in our evaluation of talent on the OL. Maybe it's league wide and pre CBA expectations need to be lowered when it comes to OL play.
I think we've basically been spinning our wheels past few years because we had no "core" to build on. That's due to injuries (Nicks, Cruz, Philips, etc.),poor draft picks, and not keeping guys like LJ & Bennett (Though I understand)
Looks like we've build a core via the last 2-3 drafts + 2016 free agency.
Looks like OL is an issue all over the league. I think 2017 will be the year when we put the pieces in place for one big run with Eli.
Quote:
by Reese's quotes in there. He broke the bank for DRC and Jon Beason based on the Seahawks success of their back 7 and let Linval Joseph and Justin Tuck walk and our run defense took a nosedive. I love DRC for the record, I'm not rehashing anything here just stating that Reese keeps looking to SB winners to pattern himself after.
Now the Broncos win a SB with a menacing DL and speedy LBs and a so so offensive line and he says ours is close to theirs so it's all OK. I know things trend and turn in the NFL, but in all honesty can't he state what his organizational philosophy is and stick to it instead of trying to re-invent the roster every 3 years? McAdoo insists that you win on the lines, and duh you do but we took zero lineman in the draft and that's fine we have tons of holes and maybe the value didn't match up but it always seems like one position group on this team suffers badly each year. Last year it was the DL and OL and he fixed one of those, in previous years it's been secondary, WRs, LBs, TEs and on and on. You can't have 22 All Pros, I get you'll have to balance things but the lines should be first and foremost and he doesn't seem to buy that.
We've been pretty awful for 3 years and we keep bringing in garbage OL as backups and starters, something somewhere is broken in our evaluation of talent on the OL. Maybe it's league wide and pre CBA expectations need to be lowered when it comes to OL play.
I think we've basically been spinning our wheels past few years because we had no "core" to build on. That's due to injuries (Nicks, Cruz, Philips, etc.),poor draft picks, and not keeping guys like LJ & Bennett (Though I understand)
Looks like we've build a core via the last 2-3 drafts + 2016 free agency.
Looks like OL is an issue all over the league. I think 2017 will be the year when we put the pieces in place for one big run with Eli.
I think our best chance might actually be this year. Are JPP and Hankins coming back next year? Secure the o-line and let's go on another run right now.
at Center . I am Glad he chose to come back here
he is a good man and a very good player when healthy
and it sounds like he finally is .
Look at his Twitter page he Bleeds Blue and still has
the respect of guys like Richburg I hope he cracks
the lineup and excels
Money talks, bullshit walks. And the money says William Beatty is not a savior. Air quality has gotten nothing to do with it.
Some of these beat writers should work for Pravda. Then again, most of you will believe anything.
Quote:
Left tackle is a premium position. 32 teams in the league and with only two weeks until the season starts, he had to "clear the air" with the Giants in order to get an offer. And the offer was $1.1M with $750K in incentives. Not exactly starting quality OT money, is it?
Money talks, bullshit walks. And the money says William Beatty is not a savior. Air quality has gotten nothing to do with it.
Keep up. They were interested and he had two offers on the table and a visit to the Cardinals in the works.
Some of these beat writers should work for Pravda. Then again, most of you will believe anything.
Like how good Rueben Randle is and how hard he will be to replace, right?
Teams were kicking the tires, nobody was courting him. He had added value with the Giants because he knows the offense, so it's only natural that they would be the team willing to offer more than the vet minimum. As for it being guaranteed, it was going to be guaranteed anyway once he made the roster for week one. And the incentive money is pretty paltry, too.
Nobody was saying "now there's a guy who can be our starting left tackle."
So your argument is Beatty sucks because he didn't get big offers from other teams?
There's plenty of reasons why teams would shy away. Maybe they wanted to stay away from a guy who's had 2 major injuries over the last few years. Maybe he got a bad rep around the league from the Giants talking with other teams about players (heart/toughness). Maybe teams wanted to trust their own players and scouting before signing a vet coming off an injury.
Beatty was an above average LT before the injury. Can he play at that level now? Is he motivated? Who knows, but it's worth a 1.1 mil investment considering the current status of the OL.
The posters calling him a backup or potential Newhouse replacement are selling him short.
at Center . I am Glad he chose to come back here
he is a good man and a very good player when healthy
and it sounds like he finally is .
Look at his Twitter page he Bleeds Blue and still has
the respect of guys like Richburg I hope he cracks
the lineup and excels
I think it's basically because of how odd the whole situation is. If you look at the offseason as a whole, one of the biggest question marks was the O-Line. While we had some great signings to fill other holes the O-Line was not one of them. It could be that there were no actual solutions available, the fact we released WB was never really explained other than his inability to stay uninjured last season. We never even offered him a pay cut to stay, it was boom you're gone and left some scratching their heads. Fast forward to now, and here we resign WB after hearing for 5 weeks that the O-line will be fine despite their complete ineptitude to block anyone at all.
So why did it take us this long? Does this mean the theory of the front office that the line was going to be ok is wrong? Was this disagreement that had to be worked out ego based? Was WB dogging it last year like some suspect? Were there options during the offseason that were ignored and now we are scrambling? Is the WB signing more for a CYA for the front office so that they can claim they tried to fix it if it blows this year up? Is he the best option available given the circumstances?
By virtue of how this whole deal has gone down over the last 8 months, these questions are going to get asked
Many would pick okung, and then feel buyer's remorse.
Quote:
is ridiculous the Line still needs help IMO especially
at Center . I am Glad he chose to come back here
he is a good man and a very good player when healthy
and it sounds like he finally is .
Look at his Twitter page he Bleeds Blue and still has
the respect of guys like Richburg I hope he cracks
the lineup and excels
I think it's basically because of how odd the whole situation is. If you look at the offseason as a whole, one of the biggest question marks was the O-Line. While we had some great signings to fill other holes the O-Line was not one of them. It could be that there were no actual solutions available, the fact we released WB was never really explained other than his inability to stay uninjured last season. We never even offered him a pay cut to stay, it was boom you're gone and left some scratching their heads. Fast forward to now, and here we resign WB after hearing for 5 weeks that the O-line will be fine despite their complete ineptitude to block anyone at all.
So why did it take us this long? Does this mean the theory of the front office that the line was going to be ok is wrong? Was this disagreement that had to be worked out ego based? Was WB dogging it last year like some suspect? Were there options during the offseason that were ignored and now we are scrambling? Is the WB signing more for a CYA for the front office so that they can claim they tried to fix it if it blows this year up? Is he the best option available given the circumstances?
By virtue of how this whole deal has gone down over the last 8 months, these questions are going to get asked
Minny, I think it's simpler than that..Yes, I believe we tried and for various reasons(I think good ones from what I understand) the trigger(s) could never be pulled..
As to them realizing their present OL experiement failed, I believe they've NEVER stopped looking and that Beatty was nothing more than a spare part to fix their depth somewhat, whether he ultimately starts or not..I believe their ongoing search will not stop until their final 53 is set and possibly beyond..
and is better than the guy who gets cut. Also if Reese
still signs another vet.
Quote:
In comment 13096403 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
is ridiculous the Line still needs help IMO especially
at Center . I am Glad he chose to come back here
he is a good man and a very good player when healthy
and it sounds like he finally is .
Look at his Twitter page he Bleeds Blue and still has
the respect of guys like Richburg I hope he cracks
the lineup and excels
I think it's basically because of how odd the whole situation is. If you look at the offseason as a whole, one of the biggest question marks was the O-Line. While we had some great signings to fill other holes the O-Line was not one of them. It could be that there were no actual solutions available, the fact we released WB was never really explained other than his inability to stay uninjured last season. We never even offered him a pay cut to stay, it was boom you're gone and left some scratching their heads. Fast forward to now, and here we resign WB after hearing for 5 weeks that the O-line will be fine despite their complete ineptitude to block anyone at all.
So why did it take us this long? Does this mean the theory of the front office that the line was going to be ok is wrong? Was this disagreement that had to be worked out ego based? Was WB dogging it last year like some suspect? Were there options during the offseason that were ignored and now we are scrambling? Is the WB signing more for a CYA for the front office so that they can claim they tried to fix it if it blows this year up? Is he the best option available given the circumstances?
By virtue of how this whole deal has gone down over the last 8 months, these questions are going to get asked
Minny, I think it's simpler than that..Yes, I believe we tried and for various reasons(I think good ones from what I understand) the trigger(s) could never be pulled..
As to them realizing their present OL experiement failed, I believe they've NEVER stopped looking and that Beatty was nothing more than a spare part to fix their depth somewhat, whether he ultimately starts or not..I believe their ongoing search will not stop until their final 53 is set and possibly beyond..
I hope you're correct buddy. I really had high hopes for this year but after watching these preseason games It really put a damper on my thoughts
Beatty:........I have drawn interest from some other teams but they arent home. Give me a shot to compete for a spot whether as a starter or as a backup, i want to come back and i want the opportunity to contribute.
Reese: Will youre a standup guy, i appreciate the call. I will look over some things and we will get back to you soon. Again, i appreciate the call. Have a good day
Secretary: Mr. Reese, I've scheduled a press conference for you to announce the signing of Beatty.
Reese: What? I was just blowing smoke up his ass.....Shit! Get me Beatty on the phone!
and now you know the rest of the story........
Quote:
Left tackle is a premium position. 32 teams in the league and with only two weeks until the season starts, he had to "clear the air" with the Giants in order to get an offer. And the offer was $1.1M with $750K in incentives. Not exactly starting quality OT money, is it?
Money talks, bullshit walks. And the money says William Beatty is not a savior. Air quality has gotten nothing to do with it.
several beat writers reported he had offers (at least one others) and other interest. he maybe figured if he's going to be a backup why not be a backup close to home. Just my guess.
And based on Giants OL performance in pre-season, he probably figured he'd have a good chance to crack the starting lineup at some point and increase his value once he hits FA again next off-season.
Nobody was going to give him starters OT money with his injury, makes sense for him to try to re-establish his value in a place he knows, and a system he played under.
No complaint with this move.
Beatty:........I have drawn interest from some other teams but they arent home. Give me a shot to compete for a spot whether as a starter or as a backup, i want to come back and i want the opportunity to contribute.
Reese: Will youre a standup guy, i appreciate the call. I will look over some things and we will get back to you soon. Again, i appreciate the call. Have a good day
Secretary: Mr. Reese, I've scheduled a press conference for you to announce the signing of Beatty.
Reese: What? I was just blowing smoke up his ass.....Shit! Get me Beatty on the phone!
and now you know the rest of the story........
we may be thanking a secretary shortly!
I for one like the addition...he CANNOT be worse than what we have as backups...he at one point was a proven player in the NFL and im glad to have him back, even if he is just depth, feel a LITTLE better if we suffer and injury
Even if we only need Beatty for parts of games and so forth he was still a good signing.
If Beatty starts on the left side for any reason, at least he knows the offense just not coach Solari's style. We did well here so long as Will Beatty is healthy and stay healthy.
first, the agents called the FO. then then the principals spoke. then Beatty worked out, then a deal was struck.
History..Before Beatty got hurt wasn't he rated the best LT in the league or close to it?
Why he was let go? Could be for a bunch of things including high expectation of Flowers. WAs he asked he asked to play hurt and refused?
Gentlemen, we're not writing fiction here. We don't know the answers and while I admire your imagination and the retelling of history with such literary license it really puts your foot ball knowledge to question even though the football knowledge is not in question.....but if you have poetic license in making these stories are you pulling Herr Drumpf magic by creating "facts" here?
Should read " Pulling Herr Drumpf magic by creating "facts" in other aspects of the game?"
Charlie -- you're too young to haytes on Twitter
I think we will "surprise" this year. The "key" is to get WINs early as the team gels and get hot again late so we win the division. We caught fire with the injuries to Romo for game 1 and Bridgewater for game 4. We can win early and develop momentum. I hate winning against teams with less than QB's but this early in the season we are catching good luck fire.
I'm just saying that him "clearing the air" with Reese had nothing to do with it. It's just spin. He took the best offer he could get and he had added value to the Giants based on familiarity with the offense, so it makes sense that they would be the team willing to offer more than the risk-free vet minimum.
I'm happy about the move. If he stays healthy, he is an upgrade to our depth and important insurance against Flowers shitting the bed. I'm actually more concerned about Flowers than I am about Newhouse. At least with Newhouse, you know what you're getting and you can scheme and game plan accordingly. With Flowers, it's hard to know what to expect. And that's scary.
Milton, how do you know his other offers were for the vet minimum?
the problem isn't emphasis, but rather on the ability to scout both college and FA recruits.
The buck stops with Reese, but I blame a LOT of it on TC, and on the position coaches.
Ultimately, the prior regime (and partial current regime) has been a big failure at keeping the lines stocked, but that isn't due to a lack of trying.
LJ, a different story.
the problem isn't emphasis, but rather on the ability to scout both college and FA recruits.
The buck stops with Reese, but I blame a LOT of it on TC, and on the position coaches.
Ultimately, the prior regime (and partial current regime) has been a big failure at keeping the lines stocked, but that isn't due to a lack of trying.
Just don't forget the scouts if you want to assign blame,
a few of those being let go wouldn't have hurt when they
let TC go. I can't think of the last lineman drafted
after the 3rd Round who has done anything here,
not named Diehl. Diehl was not drafted under this GM.
That's all I have to say about that.
LJ, a different story.
Except they kept Kiwi around, so that didn't help.
It was a joke watching that guy trot out there as a
starter, the last couple of years he was here.
Beatty's self-evaluation =/= the Giants expectations for him.
Giants were disappointed in the total amount of time he was unavailable to him, and were unwilling to keep him at his past salary. After drafting Flowers they decided he needed to take a paycut in order to stick around.
Beatty saw himself as a talented LT with plenty of opportunities around the league, was slighted by the selection of Flowers and the Giants idea that he could be easily replaced as a rookie. When approached about a restructure he told them to stick it and so they released him.
After rehabbing back to full strength he went back to the FA market, expecting at least average LT starter money. Unfortunately for him most of the FA dollars were already spent, and given his injury history teams were unwilling to commit to a big-dollar contract. He found a few teams who were willing but uncertainty about their organization and their willingness to commit to him caused him to rethink his willingness to work for the Giants. Hoping to get a better FA deal next year by proving himself this year, he decided it would be best for his family to stay at home and reduce the amount of moves he'd have to make by one.
Meanwhile, the Giants realized that a poor OL could sink this season's chances. With plenty of cap room and knowing what Beatty offered they were fine offering him an opportunity to compete for a spot on the OL, pending a physical and workout. The workout went well and so they crafted a deal with incentives so that Beatty could make decent money if he stayed healthy and got on the field. Beatty decided it was good enough, and VIOLA - he's a Giant.
Many BBI posters then went into a tizzy, because it's easier to say "it will never happen" than it is to keep an open mind on the issue, realizing the nuance of the situation.
Lots of arguments follow about what this means, and how it all went down, mostly so said posters can justify to themselves their previous opinions on Beatty, the front office, and the entire situation.
Very few admit that they just might be wrong about the whole situation.
P.S. All of the above is pure speculation and I can certainly be wrong about it.
.
Beatty's self-evaluation =/= the Giants expectations for him.
Giants were disappointed in the total amount of time he was unavailable to him, and were unwilling to keep him at his past salary. After drafting Flowers they decided he needed to take a paycut in order to stick around.
Beatty saw himself as a talented LT with plenty of opportunities around the league, was slighted by the selection of Flowers and the Giants idea that he could be easily replaced as a rookie. When approached about a restructure he told them to stick it and so they released him.
After rehabbing back to full strength he went back to the FA market, expecting at least average LT starter money. Unfortunately for him most of the FA dollars were already spent, and given his injury history teams were unwilling to commit to a big-dollar contract. He found a few teams who were willing but uncertainty about their organization and their willingness to commit to him caused him to rethink his willingness to work for the Giants. Hoping to get a better FA deal next year by proving himself this year, he decided it would be best for his family to stay at home and reduce the amount of moves he'd have to make by one.
Meanwhile, the Giants realized that a poor OL could sink this season's chances. With plenty of cap room and knowing what Beatty offered they were fine offering him an opportunity to compete for a spot on the OL, pending a physical and workout. The workout went well and so they crafted a deal with incentives so that Beatty could make decent money if he stayed healthy and got on the field. Beatty decided it was good enough, and VIOLA - he's a Giant.
Many BBI posters then went into a tizzy, because it's easier to say "it will never happen" than it is to keep an open mind on the issue, realizing the nuance of the situation.
Lots of arguments follow about what this means, and how it all went down, mostly so said posters can justify to themselves their previous opinions on Beatty, the front office, and the entire situation.
Very few admit that they just might be wrong about the whole situation.
P.S. All of the above is pure speculation and I can certainly be wrong about it.
Dan I think you may be pretty close to the truth here, the only thing to keep in mind is that the Giants never offered him a paycut deal
I'd still like to grab another guard though... not sure anyone worth signing is going to shake loose though.
Quote:
We can only speculate. Here's what I think happened:
Beatty's self-evaluation =/= the Giants expectations for him.
Giants were disappointed in the total amount of time he was unavailable to him, and were unwilling to keep him at his past salary. After drafting Flowers they decided he needed to take a paycut in order to stick around.
Beatty saw himself as a talented LT with plenty of opportunities around the league, was slighted by the selection of Flowers and the Giants idea that he could be easily replaced as a rookie. When approached about a restructure he told them to stick it and so they released him.
After rehabbing back to full strength he went back to the FA market, expecting at least average LT starter money. Unfortunately for him most of the FA dollars were already spent, and given his injury history teams were unwilling to commit to a big-dollar contract. He found a few teams who were willing but uncertainty about their organization and their willingness to commit to him caused him to rethink his willingness to work for the Giants. Hoping to get a better FA deal next year by proving himself this year, he decided it would be best for his family to stay at home and reduce the amount of moves he'd have to make by one.
Meanwhile, the Giants realized that a poor OL could sink this season's chances. With plenty of cap room and knowing what Beatty offered they were fine offering him an opportunity to compete for a spot on the OL, pending a physical and workout. The workout went well and so they crafted a deal with incentives so that Beatty could make decent money if he stayed healthy and got on the field. Beatty decided it was good enough, and VIOLA - he's a Giant.
Many BBI posters then went into a tizzy, because it's easier to say "it will never happen" than it is to keep an open mind on the issue, realizing the nuance of the situation.
Lots of arguments follow about what this means, and how it all went down, mostly so said posters can justify to themselves their previous opinions on Beatty, the front office, and the entire situation.
Very few admit that they just might be wrong about the whole situation.
P.S. All of the above is pure speculation and I can certainly be wrong about it.
Dan I think you may be pretty close to the truth here, the only thing to keep in mind is that the Giants never offered him a paycut deal
Agreed. Excellent analysis.
Milton, how do you know his other offers were for the vet minimum?
It's somewhat comparable to Leon Hall, who accepted the vet minimum of $885K from the Giants plus an additional $115K signing bonus and a $500K roster bonus tied to games played (I think). The vet minimum for Beatty was also $885K, so the $1.1M salary is just a skosh north of that and the fact that it's guaranteed isn't really meaningful because it was going to become guaranteed simply by his veteran status once the season started. As for the $750K in incentives, is it tied to starts, snaps, game day status, or roster status?
I doubt very much he turned down better offers from other teams but I guess it's possible. Just not likely.
Milton said:
It's somewhat comparable to Leon Hall, who accepted the vet minimum of $885K from the Giants plus an additional $115K signing bonus and a $500K roster bonus tied to games played (I think). The vet minimum for Beatty was also $885K, so the $1.1M salary is just a skosh north of that and the fact that it's guaranteed isn't really meaningful because it was going to become guaranteed simply by his veteran status once the season started. As for the $750K in incentives, is it tied to starts, snaps, game day status, or roster status?
I doubt very much he turned down better offers from other teams but I guess it's possible. Just not likely.
First of all, there's a big difference between a qualifying, veteran-minimum contract and something "a skosh north of that", because the skosh and guarantees render the contract ineligible for cap relief. A veteran-minimum contract looks like Kelvin Sheppard's or Bobby Rainey's, not Leon Hall's or Will Beatty's. If you think the difference is trivial, then explain why teams bother with qualifying deals.
Even your Hall analogy is highly questionable. Hall can be cut in the next week with minimal cap consequences, though I'm not among those who believe it will happen. Beatty will clearly make the team. And in terms of relocation, Hall is the opposite of Beatty: Hall left the team where he had spent nine seasons, to try and extend his career. It's reasonable to assume that the Giants' offer was the best he got. You can't make the same assumption with Beatty, for reasons that have been hammered home repeatedly in this thread and others. I doubt anyone offered significantly more than the Giants, but there's no basis for assuming that the Giants' offer stood out on the high side either.
Personally, I'm pleasantly surprised by Beatty. I really thought that he would retire when the confronted with the reality of his battered market value. Instead, he recommitted himself, got into shape and re-signed for "prove-it" money. If he's the Will Beatty of 2012 or 2014, this is a great move. If not, he still upgrades the OL depth.
Now's he has patched things up and accepted a "modest" contract. My, what a difference a week can make.
Beatty's new contract puts him in the same income bracket as Marshall Newhouse. That's where the similarity ends.
Newhouse is a try-hard swing tackle who probably won't hurt you too much if he has to start a few games. That's what the Giants signed him for, and that's what he remains, no matter how many snaps he takes because there isn't a better option at RT.
Beatty has a much higher ceiling (above-average starting LT in 2012 and 2014), but the questions about his health and motivation make him a gamble - especially in a new system, so close to the regular season. We'll never know how he might have fared in the March free agency period had he been fully rehabbed. It doesn't matter now. In any case, it's easy to understand why other teams would not have offered him much in late August, no matter how impressive he might have looked in workouts. If those factors worked to the Giants' advantage by pushing his value down, so much the better.
Win-win, especially at what we're paying him
Now I'm not saying that these guys won't be good, or can't be good, but all of these high draft picks are in year 2, 3, or 4 since being picked.
When are we going to see some goddamned results? Our line has sucked for a really long time.
Newhouse is a try-hard swing tackle who probably won't hurt you too much if he has to start a few games. That's what the Giants signed him for, and that's what he remains, no matter how many snaps he takes because there isn't a better option at RT.
I agree 100%. IMO, both players Marshall Newhouse and Beatty have hit their peak. The Beatty signing really helps to get an Oline through the season.
I think overall you're on the right track, but you're being a bit cavalier with people's livelihoods and how teams keep the budget under control. that includes the ability to use the vet minimum clause, which is thrown out the window here.
Obviously, he's not a highly sought after FA. but, the Giants made him the best offer. The guarantee is semi significant. He can come in and suck donkey balls and NY is still on the hook for his salary. Yes, it is likely he'll be on the roster for game one, but it also says the Giants are confident he's not going to suck donkey balls.
this is a good contract for all involved, once you factor in reality. Beatty wants to be paid huge dollars. Giants want a star LT. neither of those is reality.
the bottom line is that the offers were probably similar, and both the Giants and Beatty decided that this situation is the best fit, and a hundred grand here or there makes a difference in deciding the right fit.