Management and the OL

and then maybe post this.

but do to an atrocious defense and a need to upgrade the 2nd wr spot, our resources this year went in different directions. I wouldn't be surprised to see us add one or two free agents or high picks to the ol in the next off-season.

Management has been on this most likely 24/7..You can only sign what's healthy and available..If you waited this long, how about waiting a little longer? This is the ONLY time that counts..Let's allow them to play enough snaps so that they can begin to mesh..

Management knows what they're doing. Sure they've gotten things wrong, but their track record is still 50 x better than ours when it comes to determining personnel moves

"very little was done during the spring and, other than signing Will Beatty,"

Or in other words, "very little was done except where a lot was done."

Again, on the OL the Giants invested 2 #1s, 1 #2, a medium priced FA and a resigned #2 choice and signed Jerry and Newhouse as backups. Then they lost two starters to injury. They did more in this offseason to rebuild this team than probably any team in the NFL but because they didn't do what you wanted on the OL it's ok to whine say they're "obstinate and not willing to admit to their mistakes in personnel decisions." What BS.

The WCO short passing game, coupled with 2 (OBJ & Shepard) and hopefully 3 (Cruz) "shifty guys" who can get open quickly after the LOS might make a strong OL not as critical.

Thanks. I've been reading and not reacting.

"Wait til the games begin before making judgements about the team"

What a novel idea. Wait to we see how they play before coming down on management for doing a poor job.

To be honest I learned long ago to take little of what is expressed on BBI seriously and I m glad I have. Otherwise the posts over the past two weeks would have destroyed the enthusiasm I have for the beginning of this season.

Wait unti they play. Who d a thunk it

Were not overly Impressed with the over all play of
the Starters or the backup's and Immediately got on the
horn with Mr. Beatty and will continue to audition
a few more this week .
Hopefully they can find another Player to compete at
RT my hope is that Beatty can unseat Marshall and possibly
find a TE who can run block some ...
I think we are real close to making a run but I would
not be too happy not to beat the Boys this week .

to RT. We DID speak to a ton of LTs, none of whom were willing to come here to play RT. As good as Apple has looked, it would have been nice to land Conklin, who if I'm not mistaken would have been our pick if he'd have been there for us.

They are coming off a year with an offense that performed in the top 10 in the league and a defense that was dead last. They were faced with a scenario where the rebuild was likely to require more than one season. The priority was to fix the defense. Thye spent huge amount of resources in this effort and the returns are looking promising thus far.

In terms of the draft, the team was quite possibly targeting Jack Conklin, but after a bizarre set of events with Tunsil on draft night, Conklin didn't reach them. They went BPA, and appear to have gotten a good one.

The back up plan is not nearly as unreasonable as people have made out. The unit got the job done a year ago, and in fact finished the year with one of the stronger string of rushing performance they have had in a number of years. Additionally, young draftee Hart saw some action as a backup and looked promising.

So you have spent your allotted FA budget and roll with what you have in hoped that A) Hart continues his development and unseats Newhouse or B) consistency of the group, maturation of Flowers, and Solari can raise the level of play. At the least, it is not unreasonable to assume they can match the level of play from a year ago and your mega QB and WR can carry your offense for another year until they can invest further resources.

None of this is unreasonable.

The problem is, we have not seen improvements expected, in fact, they have looked worse.

This was significant enough for the team to swallow their pride and going out and bring Beatty back. Perhaps not immediately, but make no mistake about it, Beatty is an upgrade.

I further expect that a change of Flowers to RT is not out of the question. Just like Beatty returning, this is not the plan, but if things don't improve, changes will be made. I get not wanting to move him, but when a young player is struggling, you need to protect him. Before Beatty, there was no real alternative. But if Beatty shows something, you know he can get the job done, and a move is not out of the question. BM has already said Beatty would get looks at multiple spots. I still think it is unlikely, but make no mistake, this has at least been discussed. And of course BM would not give any considerations away. We know how he feels about showing his hand to opponents looking to game plan.

Bottom line, we knew it was not going to be a one year fix. Yes, there is cap available, but who knows what that was budgeted for -they have several core players with contracts on the horizon. Would you wish them to tap into $$ designated to keep the core in place and risk losing some one key down the road in favor of a past their prime stop gap fix? They will do what they can, but they aren't going to mortgage the future and we all knew going what we were facing.

As the saying goes "stop making sense."

as being the first year of the fix?

the fix began a year or two ago.

Jerry and Newhouse are below average starters (to be kind), we don't have a blocking TE (maybe Adams?) and don't have a fullback. There's really no mystery about any of that. We're likely going to struggle to run the ball, so the pressure will be on the revamped D to get stops late in tight games.

In comment 13105066 fkap said:

Quote:

as being the first year of the fix? the fix began a year or two ago.

If you are referring to me, well read my post. I is pretty clear that I was talking about what the plan was coming into the season.

If you go back to the spring, no LT would come to Giants that they courted to play RT. Reason was, FLowers was not to be moved.

For better or worse this is why you have the talent you have out there today.

Free agency didn't offer much in the way of solutions for the OL - and Reese was unwilling to overpay for the guys that did see the open market (this is a GOOD thing).

Meanwhile, our defense was the worst in the NFL last season. How many games did we lose because we couldn't count on the team to make a stop in the final minutes? Clearly, the defense needed to be (and was) the priority this offseason. And some analysts still suggested that we overpaid to sign the likes of Jenkins, Vernon, and Harrison (this remains to be seen).

In short, it makes little sense to criticize the front office for not making big moves improve the OL - not if those moves weren't out there to be made, and not if making them would entail throwing money at marginal players just for the sake of doing it.

In comment 13105066 fkap said:

Quote:

as being the first year of the fix?the fix began a year or two ago.

Or three years ago. I also find bceagle05's post to be eminently reasonable, about seeing what we had last year.

UberAlias, another smart, informed poster is nothing if not reasonable in characterizing the past 12 months when he said:

Quote:

So you have spent your allotted FA budget and roll with what you have in hoped that A) Hart continues his development and unseats Newhouse or B) consistency of the group, maturation of Flowers, and Solari can raise the level of play. At the least, it is not unreasonable to assume they can match the level of play from a year ago and your mega QB and WR can carry your offense for another year until they can invest further resources. None of this is unreasonable. The problem is, we have not seen improvements expected, in fact, they have looked worse.

The problem is as UA says, except it's beyond that: Reese & Co. have shown to be very poor judges of talent on the OL in FA and the draft except at the very top of the draft. They are not good at this, it's been a five year slog to where we find ourselves now.

Beatty strikes me a good move but one made out of desperation, perhaps pushed, hard, by BM and Solari. Flowers is a tough not to crack and he has not been developing. As bceagle05 says, Newhouse and JJ are what they are, mediocre journeymen holding down very nice paying jobs.

I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that the Giants' #10 ranking on offense was based predominantly on the brilliance of OBJ and Eli, and we know that more than ever OBJ is a marked man this year. Yes, we have Shepard and, maybe, Cruz, but it still leaves the O vulnerable and one dimensional if the OL is weak, not only in depth, but the starters.

I think it's a failure of judgment over multiple years in how to identify and allocate resources and execute a plan to protect the key asset in his finitely numbered remaining years. So, I'm sympathetic to the thrust of the OP.

but so far I see no reason to believe anything you project other than you are basing your condemnation on a very limited amount of information.

Challenge that!

You do NOT sit in on the meetings with the head coach and the position coaches. Your information at the very least is biased and extremely limited.

I do respect the fact that you're trying to make soup out of a pile of rock but it is just hot water. You have absolutely NO information of what the actual facts are!

Please continue trying but making yourself agonize over nof facts is hard to watch.
go back and review exactly what you know about what is happening when the beat writers don't have to write SOMETHING to sell their news and keep their jobs.

Again, Limited facts, extremely limited ability to get the opinions of the PAID PERSONNEL who's jobs depend on their decisions.

But Don Quixoti don't let the truth stop you....ONWARD, Brave knight!!!!

Reese has said that he will take a ball handler who can make big plays over a blocker every time. And that is exactly what he has done repeatedly. He takes backs and receivers when he should be drafting OLs. It's a major reason for the decline in this team's record over the past three seasons, actually since 2011 when he should have started paying more attention to rebuilding the OL.

His reasoning makes no sense to me. It doesn't matter who you have handling the ball if he doesn't have quality blocking to open the holes for the running game and/or to protect the passer. After the snap, you typically have two guys handling the ball on an offensive play, but you need nine more guys to block for them.

If you look at it on a simple numbers basis, you need to draft or sign multiple quality blockers for every back or receiver, not counting the QB. And Reese simply doesn't draft or sign enough blockers. Plus, he largely ignores blocking ability at positions like RB and TE - for example, David Wilson couldn't block a lick and neither can Larry Donnell or Will Tye.

Further, Reese and company have also shown a near total inability to find decent blockers after the first two rounds of the draft, or to sign decent ones in veteran free agency. The guys signed to reinforce the OL for this season are a good example. Reese talked about all of them having experience in the league, which was true. However, they were all rejected by typically more than one team, and usually teams with losing records. In short, these guys were dregs, not good prospects. They've brought in a long list of OLs and TEs who didn't make it for whatever reason. This says there is something wrong with their approach to team building that goes beyond just not valuing blockers as highly as the ball handlers. They are not making the right decisions on who to bring in.

And for those who want to argue about who he has drafted and signed, all I will say is look at this team's record over the last four seasons. What Reese is doing is obviously not working, or this wouldn't be a 6-10 team for the past two seasons, with what was widely regarded as one of the worst overall rosters in the league despite the presence of a few real stars. Don't start on the injury excuse, either. Every team has to deal with them.

every team DID NOT have to deal with the record-setting injuries that we did, not even close..We have every right to inject the injury card into the equation as it was a huge part of our failures the last 3 years..We had injuries to starters AND their backups..Hard to overcome for ANY team..

Dallas and other teams are beginning to experience already this year what we have in recent years..

Quote:

Reese has said that he will take a ball handler who can make big plays over a blocker every time. And that is exactly what he has done repeatedly. He takes backs and receivers when he should be drafting OLs. It's a major reason for the decline in this team's record over the past three seasons, actually since 2011 when he should have started paying more attention to rebuilding the OL. His reasoning makes no sense to me. It doesn't matter who you have handling the ball if he doesn't have quality blocking to open the holes for the running game and/or to protect the passer. After the snap, you typically have two guys handling the ball on an offensive play, but you need nine more guys to block for them.

His reasoning might not make much sense to you because it isn't true.

We took Flowers last year when several capable "ball handlers" were there. We took Pugh in the 1st. This idea that the OL has been ignored or that Reese won't take linemen is so overplayed and false to boot.

It isn't rocket science on what happened. The Giants felt they could get by with an aging line and they couldn't. Several OL declined rapidly at the same time which forced a rebuild which has been happening since 2013.

The OL may or may not be good, but the hand wringing that the FO has done nothing is just pure bullshit.

In comment 13105093 ColHowPepper said:

Quote:

except it's beyond that: Reese & Co. have shown to be very poor judges of talent on the OL in FA and the draft except at the very top of the draft. They are not good at this, it's been a five year slog to where we find ourselves now. Beatty strikes me a good move but one made out of desperation, perhaps pushed, hard, by BM and Solari. Flowers is a tough not to crack and he has not been developing. As bceagle05 says, Newhouse and JJ are what they are, mediocre journeymen holding down very nice paying jobs. I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that the Giants' #10 ranking on offense was based predominantly on the brilliance of OBJ and Eli, and we know that more than ever OBJ is a marked man this year. Yes, we have Shepard and, maybe, Cruz, but it still leaves the O vulnerable and one dimensional if the OL is weak, not only in depth, but the starters. I think it's a failure of judgment over multiple years in how to identify and allocate resources and execute a plan to protect the key asset in his finitely numbered remaining years.

Unfortunately, I can't argue against any of this. You are more than fair account, CHP.

In comment 13105141 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

Quote: Reese has said that he will take a ball handler who can make big plays over a blocker every time. And that is exactly what he has done repeatedly. He takes backs and receivers when he should be drafting OLs. It's a major reason for the decline in this team's record over the past three seasons, actually since 2011 when he should have started paying more attention to rebuilding the OL. His reasoning makes no sense to me. It doesn't matter who you have handling the ball if he doesn't have quality blocking to open the holes for the running game and/or to protect the passer. After the snap, you typically have two guys handling the ball on an offensive play, but you need nine more guys to block for them. His reasoning might not make much sense to you because it isn't true. We took Flowers last year when several capable "ball handlers" were there. We took Pugh in the 1st. This idea that the OL has been ignored or that Reese won't take linemen is so overplayed and false to boot. It isn't rocket science on what happened. The Giants felt they could get by with an aging line and they couldn't. Several OL declined rapidly at the same time which forced a rebuild which has been happening since 2013. The OL may or may not be good, but the hand wringing that the FO has done nothing is just pure bullshit.

I am just puzzled by the Giants reluctance to move Flowers. They had opportunities to sign LTs, but they would not play RT... and Giants insisted because Flowers was staying put..

Hopefully he looks great next week and it all makes sense but has me wondering what they were thinking.

"...more than fair in your account..."

In comment 13105161 shabu said:

Quote:

In comment 13105141 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Quote: Reese has said that he will take a ball handler who can make big plays over a blocker every time. And that is exactly what he has done repeatedly. He takes backs and receivers when he should be drafting OLs. It's a major reason for the decline in this team's record over the past three seasons, actually since 2011 when he should have started paying more attention to rebuilding the OL. His reasoning makes no sense to me. It doesn't matter who you have handling the ball if he doesn't have quality blocking to open the holes for the running game and/or to protect the passer. After the snap, you typically have two guys handling the ball on an offensive play, but you need nine more guys to block for them. His reasoning might not make much sense to you because it isn't true. We took Flowers last year when several capable "ball handlers" were there. We took Pugh in the 1st. This idea that the OL has been ignored or that Reese won't take linemen is so overplayed and false to boot. It isn't rocket science on what happened. The Giants felt they could get by with an aging line and they couldn't. Several OL declined rapidly at the same time which forced a rebuild which has been happening since 2013. The OL may or may not be good, but the hand wringing that the FO has done nothing is just pure bullshit. I am just puzzled by the Giants reluctance to move Flowers. They had opportunities to sign LTs, but they would not play RT... and Giants insisted because Flowers was staying put.. Hopefully he looks great next week and it all makes sense but has me wondering what they were thinking.

Even if it's true, that some OLTs were reluctant to move to the right side, the fact is, they were all well past their prime or coming off severe injuries..Flowers is only 21 and played on one leg last year..I WILL NOT evaluate hom based on limited snaps in preseason, even of he might have looked poorly..Hard to get your groove and work things out when the continuity you rely on is taken away with the limited PT that these glorified scrimmages present

(1) The OL in a WCO doesn't have to be THAT good. It doesn't have to keep Visigoths at bay for centuries.

(2) Management probably thought (understandably) the floor for this year's OL was last year's performance. Which on the whole, across all five positions, was OK.

(3) We should take OL rather than skill positions? FO has mistakenly been focused on WRs and RBs? OK, let's give OBJ back. We've taken more OL in 1st round than RBs in the last few years. In fact, aside from D. Wilson, the only RBs I remember them taking (A. Williams, P. Perkins) came in Rds 4 and 5 -- not exactly prizing the position. Meanwhile, we have 2 OTs and a C taken in the top two rounds in the last 4 years or so.

(4) Point to the last SB champ that had an absolutely dominant OL. Point to the last SB champ that had playmakers.

(5) People on this site cream over the Cowboys OL. They've had one winning record in the last 6 years. They were 4-12 last year.

All that said, yes, it would be great to have a better OL (and even a TE who can block). You can't fix everything at once. If the fixes to our historically bad D hold, I fully expect management to pick an OT in the first 2 rounds (again). And unless J. Adams is a revelation this year, they will upgrade the TE position, especially blocking, through the draft or FA.

It's not like OTs are available at Cotsco

and Jones. And last year's #7 offensive line and team with Randle the only backup WR. Surely the chicken licken crowd here on BBI know best.

The games are about to start. Is it the I told you so thing to make yourself feel better? Whatever it is it makes no sense now, we will find out the answers to everything on the field, can we do that first then discuss about how this plan went.

regardless of any move made. We have not played a real snap, and you're already trying to kick him out the door.

However, I do think you can fault management for being a little bit inflexible regarding Flowers. Many football people were questioning whether this guy would not be better off at RT.

You also need a better backup plan for Jerry/Newhouse than just Hart. They seemingly lucked into Beatty. But still I don't think you can say mangement did a good job with the OL.

Obviously, they had a lot of other things to take care. But the OL is crucial. Does not do any good to have Eli and Odell and draft a number two WR if the line can't protect adequately.

That said, it is foolish to get up in arms until we see how the OL plays in the regular season.

of the most frustrating parts about BBI is when people just make shit up.

Quote:

Why do I have a feeling that Red Dog would have bitched about Reese David in LA : 9:40 pm : link : reply regardless of any move made. We have not played a real snap, and you're already trying to kick him out the door.

There is a reasonable discussion and argument to make regarding the OL, but in the past several days, I've seen such crap posted like:
- Reese will pick ball handlers over blockers every time
- Reese picks to show off his ego and arrogance
- Reese won't draft OL because it would admit he made mistakes
- Reese is so arrogant he refused to do anything at all on the OL
- Reese wasted money on D while the OL sits unimproved
- Reese won't let Flowers be moved because his ego won't allow it.

All of the above things have been posted. The OL situation is one to worry about, but just making shit up on the reasons behind it doesn't help anyone.

There just wasn't much to choose from this off-season. Plus remember, just because someone is available doesn't mean they want to come to NY. Take Sitton, I'm sure in a "perfect world" we wouldn't mind having him but at that price? We need an OT more than an OG as has been noted on many a thread.

I think Reese and company were hoping the young cheap guys would develop, even if just one, into an OT. B. Jones developed just enough to make the roster as the backup OC and that is a good thing. He'll improve as the year goes along.

I see Will Beatty being used as the blocking TE early on and once he is in shape and knows the updated offense and zone blocking style he'll push for playing time at RT. I can see a lineup of Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Beatty by say the MN game on Monday night. This would not be a bad pass protecting OL.

You play the cards you are dealt.

In comment 13105168 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 13105161 shabu said: Quote: In comment 13105141 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Quote: Reese has said that he will take a ball handler who can make big plays over a blocker every time. And that is exactly what he has done repeatedly. He takes backs and receivers when he should be drafting OLs. It's a major reason for the decline in this team's record over the past three seasons, actually since 2011 when he should have started paying more attention to rebuilding the OL. His reasoning makes no sense to me. It doesn't matter who you have handling the ball if he doesn't have quality blocking to open the holes for the running game and/or to protect the passer. After the snap, you typically have two guys handling the ball on an offensive play, but you need nine more guys to block for them. His reasoning might not make much sense to you because it isn't true. We took Flowers last year when several capable "ball handlers" were there. We took Pugh in the 1st. This idea that the OL has been ignored or that Reese won't take linemen is so overplayed and false to boot. It isn't rocket science on what happened. The Giants felt they could get by with an aging line and they couldn't. Several OL declined rapidly at the same time which forced a rebuild which has been happening since 2013. The OL may or may not be good, but the hand wringing that the FO has done nothing is just pure bullshit. I am just puzzled by the Giants reluctance to move Flowers. They had opportunities to sign LTs, but they would not play RT... and Giants insisted because Flowers was staying put.. Hopefully he looks great next week and it all makes sense but has me wondering what they were thinking. Even if it's true, that some OLTs were reluctant to move to the right side, the fact is, they were all well past their prime or coming off severe injuries..Flowers is only 21 and played on one leg last year..I WILL NOT evaluate hom based on limited snaps in preseason, even of he might have looked poorly..Hard to get your groove and work things out when the continuity you rely on is taken away with the limited PT that these glorified scrimmages present

I don't recall the detail on who was available but, ya lets hope flowers at least locks down LT this year , that would be a win in my book.

In comment 13105249 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

of the most frustrating parts about BBI is when people just make shit up. Quote: Why do I have a feeling that Red Dog would have bitched about Reese David in LA : 9:40 pm : link : reply regardless of any move made. We have not played a real snap, and you're already trying to kick him out the door. There is a reasonable discussion and argument to make regarding the OL, but in the past several days, I've seen such crap posted like: - Reese will pick ball handlers over blockers every time - Reese picks to show off his ego and arrogance - Reese won't draft OL because it would admit he made mistakes - Reese is so arrogant he refused to do anything at all on the OL - Reese wasted money on D while the OL sits unimproved - Reese won't let Flowers be moved because his ego won't allow it. All of the above things have been posted. The OL situation is one to worry about, but just making shit up on the reasons behind it doesn't help anyone.

FMiC, you also forgot the passing shots at Reese's intelligence and public speaking ability, and over crediting, and over embellishment of Ernie Accorsi's tenure here. Some posters' criticism of Reese likely comes from a not so wholesome place.

Was thinking about your point, flowers being 21. Ya, I would say let the kid play.. I get now why you keep flowers there @ LT. Given the recent injury issues, it's even more "go with youth" and it should be IMO.

In comment 13105076 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

Jerry and Newhouse are below average starters (to be kind), we don't have a blocking TE (maybe Adams?) and don't have a fullback. There's really no mystery about any of that. We're likely going to struggle to run the ball, so the pressure will be on the revamped D to get stops late in tight games.

And Eli to get the ball out fast to ODB and Shephard.

Namely Ereck Flowers, as Pat Traina rightly detailed - his technique stinks.

Remember when Wes Richburg called out the O-line (last May) for not working harder (as in attending the LeCharles Bentley camp).

Me thinks he was focusing his statements at Flowers (who has more talent than everybody else combined), but is wasting his and the team's time with his mediocre play.

In comment 13105335 Manny in CA said:

Quote:

Namely Ereck Flowers, as Pat Traina rightly detailed - his technique stinks. Remember when Wes Richburg called out the O-line (last May) for not working harder (as in attending the LeCharles Bentley camp). Me thinks he was focusing his statements at Flowers (who has more talent than everybody else combined), but is wasting his and the team's time with his mediocre play.

I too read Pat's report as well as some other commentator comments (Carl Banks) and Erek does have all the talent in the world BUT he isn't consistent enough with his technique. It is like he plays 5 well and then goes to sleep for the 6th one. You can't do that in the NFL.

"Our OL sucks" comments come from the history of our last dominant line (2006-2010) and the tried and true ability to blame Reese for everything. What most people tend to forget is that A) our OL doesn't suck, B) the ability to form a dominant OL in the NFL is a thing of the past and C) Reese has invested serious resources in the OL recently, just not covering all the bases if you will.

In case you forgot, teams have to field 11 starters on offense - and they'd all like to be paid accordingly. If the right side of the OL has to be last on the totem pole of issues - so be it.

Reese would have gone OL in the draft and passed on Shepard or other WR and all BBI would have done all training camp and preseason was complain about the lack of playmakers.

The beat goes on..let's focus on kicking the shit out of Dallas on Sunday and see what this terrible OL can do eh?

its just not something the seem to do very well.

Reese inherited the OL that won them the two rings.

In comment 13105394 chris r said:

Quote:

its just not something the seem to do very well. Reese inherited the OL that won them the two rings.

Not true. Reese made the decision to release Luke Petitgout, who was a decent LT. There were fans going nuts about his decision, and he was ok with rolling the dice with Diehl. Tiki retired on that season too. We went into our 2007 season with unproven RB's (Jacobs, Ward, and Droughns), and some guy we moved around the line is now our LT (DD).

In comment 13105249 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

of the most frustrating parts about BBI is when people just make shit up. Quote: Why do I have a feeling that Red Dog would have bitched about Reese David in LA : 9:40 pm : link : reply regardless of any move made. We have not played a real snap, and you're already trying to kick him out the door. There is a reasonable discussion and argument to make regarding the OL, but in the past several days, I've seen such crap posted like: - Reese will pick ball handlers over blockers every time - Reese picks to show off his ego and arrogance - Reese won't draft OL because it would admit he made mistakes - Reese is so arrogant he refused to do anything at all on the OL - Reese wasted money on D while the OL sits unimproved - Reese won't let Flowers be moved because his ego won't allow it. All of the above things have been posted. The OL situation is one to worry about, but just making shit up on the reasons behind it doesn't help anyone.

What's not reasonable with any of those comments? :-)

Come on...vents and knucklehead stuff isn't really getting in the way of discussing the Oline if anybody wants. There must be a level headed debate out there amongst the 45 other threads per day on Oline concerns...

In comment 13105303 shabu said:

Quote:

Was thinking about your point, flowers being 21. Ya, I would say let the kid play.. I get now why you keep flowers there @ LT. Given the recent injury issues, it's even more "go with youth" and it should be IMO.

The kid has the important requisites to do well at OLT, imv..He's a friggin' warrior, mean and plays to the whistle..Being 21 allows him to hone his craft, learn better technique, etc..

Worst case scenario? He eventually moves to ORT..But for now, you non-experts need to let the kid play and develop and mesh with his OL mates as the season progresses..

the OL and all the negativity: I ain't buying it.

First, I think the starting OL is solid enough in pass protection BUT admittedly doesn't have a mauling run blocker on the right side. That is a flaw and can hurt us in games when it is 3rd and a yard and such.

Second, I am a big believer in continuity for an OL and this is year #2 for this bunch. Yes, the zone blocking style that coach Solari brings is "new" but outside of Flowers this is a veteran group and I suspect it will take a few games to get it down technique wise. But they will get it down.

Third, I think Flowers-Pugh-Richburg will be far better than last year's grouping and better than most middle to left groups in the NFL. Flowers needs technique work in pass protection, especially when he faces speed rushers, but he does have the talent to do it. In matter of fact, he does do well at times only to be inconsistent in other times. He'll get better with playing time.

The negatives I have from camp is that it doesn't seem like TE Will Tye took that big step forward with his blocking like I thought. I had figured 2nd year guy out of Stony Brook would make a big leap. He ended last year seemingly on the upside and we ran well late last year. But I want to see him in a real game before I judge and i think we should do the same.

The Giants signed Will Johnson for two reasons as I see it: versatile blocker AND excellent special teamer. He will be missed but you have to move on and hope the remaining TE's can do just enough when called upon for us to succeed.

Overall, this offense returns in tact and it is now year #3 in this system. I personally look for slight improvement across the board. The redzone scoring concerns me as does short yardage but every team has deficiencies. A key guy for us in the redzone could end up being TE Larry Donnell. He is a big body guy who can outmuscle others for the ball.

I am not going to worry about the OL unless injuries hit. We know we have a solid pass protection group and we also know we finished last year strong running the ball. I look for Eli to use the short passing game as our running game at times and this is an area with Cruz, Shepard added where I believe we have a real shot at improving.
I want to see about 3 games before I re-write the above comments.

People seem to forget that the OL that was really good consisted of an UDFA center that was a castoff from an awful team, that no one heard of.

Suebert was an UDFA that no one heard of

Deihl was a 5th rd pick as a G - no one heard of

McKenzie was a FA and former 3rd rd pick

Snee was the high draft pick in rd 2.

Reese seemed to try and build the same way - sign Baas and Schwartz - when played they were fine - they were too injured.

Baas missed 1 game in 5 years in SF and missed 18 in NY in 3 years and was done at 32.

Snee was effectively done at 30, at a position many play in well into their 30's. Two separate occasions we heard from doctors and Snee himself he was healthy and he was done

Think about 2013 - Baas & Snee both played 3 games and their careers were over.

They drafted Petrus, Moseley, McCants & Brewer in 10-12. Petrus plays some games and seems to show ability and he is gone, Mosley plays a little and shows some ability and he is gone, McCants is still on the Raiders. Brewer was moved all over the OL. He could not play T in the NFL he was OK at G. The staff was supposed to develop the depth. They developed nothing

There is blame to go all around the organization

was okay at Guard.

If you think the guys we have now on the Oline struggle then what the hell would you call what Brewer did for 4 years?

Was that there were maybe 2 great free agent guards available in the spring. At this point Pugh at left tackle, flowers at right, two great guards and ruchburg having had all off season to prepare looks rational.
But the little self appointed pir bulls said it was a craven sin to Nov flowers, that Pugh lacked power for ort, and that was the BBI coonsnsus rejecting that. Now, signing Beatty is an admission of the oversight.

.

It has nothing to do with some posters saying that we should have signed a couple of UDFA Guards, while admitting that they had no idea who was available or what they might have cost.

It has nothing to do with some posters saying we should have signed a UFA OT, without acknowledging that the few that were available all had age or injury concerns (with the possible exception of Mitchell Schwartz).

It has nothing to do with some posters refusing to accept that the Giants aren't giving up on Flowers at LT after one season where he struggled, or that signing Will Beatty had more to do with Bobby Hart's struggles than Ereck Flowers'.

It has nothing to do with some posters refusing to accept that the Giants prefer that Justin Pugh remain at LG, where they believe he can excel, rather than moving him to LT or RT, where his physical traits are less than ideal.

No, it's all about the pit bulls