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Management and the OL

Burt in Alameda : 9/5/2016 6:46 pm
All during the spring and preseason, most of us have been pessimistic about the performance of the offensive line, the players, and their abilities. Our concerns seem to have been borne out in the preseason games. Management (the front office and coaches) have seen what we have seen. Yet, very little was done during the spring and, other than signing Will Beatty, little change was made during the preseason games and in the last few days. Why does management clearly disagree with us and most of the beat writers? I van only think of three reasons. Management is OK with the players the Giants have. Or, management (Reese in particular) and the coaches are poor evaluators of talent. Or, management just is obstinate and not willing to admit to their mistakes in personnel decisions. Opinions?
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With Beatty at RT our OL is an ok to good line  
PatersonPlank : 9/6/2016 9:44 am : link
We will pass block just fine (assuming the TE's and RB's pull their weight), and we will have trouble establishing the run against the top D's (but most do). We will be a pass first team, which is good because that's where our top skill players are, and run to keep some semblance of balance. This will be a team that finished around #10 in offense (again).

With a #10 defense we are a championship contender.

Do not read anything into preseason.
RE: The biggest issue as I see it was not being willing to move Flowers  
dboom : 9/6/2016 9:57 am : link
In comment 13105053 yatqb said:
Quote:
to RT. We DID speak to a ton of LTs, none of whom were willing to come here to play RT. As good as Apple has looked, it would have been nice to land Conklin, who if I'm not mistaken would have been our pick if he'd have been there for us.



Who has been struggling badly at RT? Not sure how that helps us.
BBI should collectively read  
JonC : 9/6/2016 10:06 am : link
Uber and CHP's posts, in order to gain some clear perspective.

The build is in progress and we knew it would likely go beyond the 2016 cycle.

They pretty clearly need to improve their scouting and decision process for the OL, not unlike the need to improve the LB process.

RE: The biggest issue as I see it was not being willing to move Flowers  
Klaatu : 9/6/2016 10:09 am : link
In comment 13105053 yatqb said:
Quote:
to RT. We DID speak to a ton of LTs, none of whom were willing to come here to play RT. As good as Apple has looked, it would have been nice to land Conklin, who if I'm not mistaken would have been our pick if he'd have been there for us.


A ton of LTs? Seriously?

Monroe retired, Penn blew us off, we weren't going to trade for Clady, and oft-injured Okung preferred to sign with the world champions. Have I left anyone out?

As for Conklin - and remember, prior to the draft I started a thread titled, "Give me Jack Conklin or give me death" - there's no indication that he would have been the Giants' pick if he was still on the board. And if the Giants were hell-bent on drafting another O-Lineman in the 1st Round they could have had Taylor Decker. Clearly they preferred Apple to Decker, and throughout the rest of the draft they passed on several decent O-Line prospects in favor of other players at different positions, and honestly, I can't fault them for that.
Klatu  
idiotsavant : 9/6/2016 11:33 am : link
That's fine rhetoric. But rhetoric does not win football games.
And. Even if we do win, that would not preclude better ways.
As for details, who has time for that? Better you add those, if you have time, as opposed to wasting yours on status quo.
RE: Klatu  
Klaatu : 9/6/2016 11:44 am : link
In comment 13105760 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
That's fine rhetoric. But rhetoric does not win football games.
And. Even if we do win, that would not preclude better ways.
As for details, who has time for that? Better you add those, if you have time, as opposed to wasting yours on status quo.


Yeah, who needs details? It's not like they're important or anything. It's so much better to wax philosophically about what the Giants should do without getting caught up in those pesky details.

And you have the gall to throw "rhetoric" in my face? What have you ever proposed that isn't simply rhetoric? Puh-leeze. You don't understand the free agent market, so you dismiss it out of hand. That's brilliant. You don't understand how a team is put together, so you dismiss that out of hand, too. Even more brilliance.

Climb down from your ivory tower and find your place in the real world.
With health, the OL will be ok imv.  
Big Blue '56 : 9/6/2016 11:52 am : link
We NEEDED to fix the D..Whether you think the 10th best O ranking was a mirage, the fact is the D failed us far more than the O did(and the O failed us plenty in critical moments)..

We addressed the D with lots of talented and mostly YOUNG players. No stopgaps..They will be with us for at least Eli's remaining years imv..

We can move the ball. If it's mostly through the air (a la Brady) then so be it..Our D is what will or should get us to the Tourney along with our franchise QB and his weapons, imv
RE: RE: @bb56  
shabu : 9/6/2016 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13105415 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13105303 shabu said:


Quote:


Was thinking about your point, flowers being 21. Ya, I would say let the kid play.. I get now why you keep flowers there @ LT. Given the recent injury issues, it's even more "go with youth" and it should be IMO.





The kid has the important requisites to do well at OLT, imv..He's a friggin' warrior, mean and plays to the whistle..Being 21 allows him to hone his craft, learn better technique, etc..

Worst case scenario? He eventually moves to ORT..But for now, you non-experts need to let the kid play and develop and mesh with his OL mates as the season progresses..


Yep, i think flowers should have another year at LT before he is moved. Have to give him another year, new OL coach etc. Its the right call, thanks for getting me there ;)
Dallas is widely believed to have the league's best OL  
Bluenatic : 9/6/2016 12:54 pm : link
And the league's best OL couldn't prevent their franchise QB from getting obliterated not once but twice.
All teams give up sacks here and there  
idiotsavant : 9/6/2016 1:38 pm : link
But, if we have, and the season has not started yet, if we lack the ability to pull off convincing powerfull run blocking with some kind of faximili of regularity, that would be a problem.
Then, for klatuu  
idiotsavant : 9/6/2016 1:50 pm : link
Go ahead and educate me, since I admit not having time anymore, why was it, in your view, that there were no guards available, or why we could not sign one or two, or why the best ones were no good, starting as soon as possible, after the end if last season.

Otherwise not sure who your comments are directed to or what the basis is.
idiotsavant  
Klaatu : 9/6/2016 3:20 pm : link
I already have, several times. I suggest you spend less time pontificating and more time reading.
Eli deserves some kind of award  
gmenatlarge : 9/7/2016 12:00 pm : link
for not complaining about the amount of money and draft picks spent on the D (which needed help) during the offseason while he plays behind this shitshow of an O-line.

Management/FO totally disregarded the lack of a running game that could have won at least 2 or 3 games not relying on the D.

Just because they ended up with a #8 offensive ranking doesn't mean you don't try to improve. Not getting ANY lineman or a blocking TE of some sort is really going to bite them in the ass and may be the difference in making the playoffs!
They did get a blocking TE. He's out for the season.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/7/2016 12:01 pm : link
.
the fact that the Giants still have the same  
Jersey55 : 9/8/2016 10:56 am : link
O line problems stems from their reluctance to move Flowers to RT. This O line could have been fixed by adding solid veterans but it didn't happen because of the team being stubborn about moving Flowers to RT. What has Flowers shown at LT that makes this move to RT so hard to do.....
RE: the fact that the Giants still have the same  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/8/2016 11:06 am : link
In comment 13109322 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
O line problems stems from their reluctance to move Flowers to RT. This O line could have been fixed by adding solid veterans but it didn't happen because of the team being stubborn about moving Flowers to RT. What has Flowers shown at LT that makes this move to RT so hard to do.....


Who were the players that they didn't sign because they didn't want to move Flowers to RT?
RE: the fact that the Giants still have the same  
Big Blue '56 : 9/8/2016 11:13 am : link
In comment 13109322 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
O line problems stems from their reluctance to move Flowers to RT. This O line could have been fixed by adding solid veterans but it didn't happen because of the team being stubborn about moving Flowers to RT. What has Flowers shown at LT that makes this move to RT so hard to do.....


What flucking problems? The season hasn't started yet!
Circular convo that gets hung up  
idiotsavant : 9/8/2016 11:17 am : link
On signing tackles, whereas a great guard or two could have made a difference.

Another way these conversations get hung up is on the fallacious logic that if player A is a mediocre guard that he could never be a better tackle or that tackles can automatically play guard. Each player is different.

You never know Pugh's upside at left until you try.
The OL  
aquidneck : 9/8/2016 11:41 am : link
will be fine.

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