Does it bother anyone else? Beckham vs. Brown

is more talented than Brown?

Not outside of NY IMO.

Almost everyone I read who has an opinion about it says Brown is the best receiver in football.

while Brown does a lot of possession stuff.

to complete passes on broken plays and initially failed routes. Eli doesn't really have that ability and relies almost exclusively on precision and timed routes.
Brown therefore has more time to break coverage on many plays and get open.

...with the possible exception that he has more receiving yards in his first two years than any other receiver in the history of the NFL.

Has been in the league longer. Compare OBJs first two seasons with Browns. No comparison. Brown is the better WR right now. Experience and maturity will get Beckham there. Give it time.

In comment 13119473 DonQuixote said:

Quote:

...with the possible exception that he has more receiving yards in his first two years than any other receiver in the history of the NFL.

Hahahaha...

In comment 13119473 DonQuixote said:

Quote:

...with the possible exception that he has more receiving yards in his first two years than any other receiver in the history of the NFL.

I guess you're right. I think I get a bit antsy when OBJ doesn't get 100 yards and no TDs, which tells you everything you need to know about the bar he set. And I really think that he has the talent to be considered the best WR in the league.

so it's not like he's being overlooked.

They run picks for him every week. It helps him get open. They pass to him a lot more often at the LOS. Giants could learn a few things from PITs use of Brown.

Brown had 2 TD's tonight - Beckham none.

Which means most of the board now forgets what Odell did his first two years.

At least most morons are past calling him "Becky"

And for once, we have one of those guys..

I wonder if any of those posters are still around and if they would admit to being idiots.

as a slight to Beckham at all. People get so sensitive with this stuff.

I'm not talking about who had the better first two years of their career.

Right now, for the next game, most people think brown is the better receiver.

that's my opinion.

saying Antonio Brown is the better receiver isn't calling Beckham becky or discounting the first two seasons of his career.

it's just stating an opinion.

Brown, Jones, Bryant...so much talent. Someone's always going to have a better stretch than someone else. It's fun to watch and like a poster mentioned above fun to have one of these guys for a change.

In comment 13119505 okiegiant said:

Quote:

I wonder if any of those posters are still around and if they would admit to being idiots.

Oh they're still around alright...

(in the same way that Alex Daddario has a "better" rack than Kate Upton), but the Giants are still fine tuning this offense and for its first 2 years the talent outside of Beckham was mostly average...at best. With Randle gone and Cruz, hopefully Shepard producing, and hopefully Vereen used way more, safeties will have to make real choices.

This offense could use a real Tight End (although Tye I think could be useful/slightly above JAG level...another Jake Ballard if you will).

Playcalling. Period. It does wonders.

and Tomlin's job is probably the 2nd safest among all NFL HCs.

Averages about 1.5 more targets a game which is significant.

The Pitt offense had other threats too which helps.

But brown is not better than Beckham. Put Beckham in same situation he goes for over 2000 yards last year. Beckham is the superior athlete and his yac and td shows that.

In comment 13119493 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

Brown had 2 TD's tonight - Beckham none. Which means most of the board now forgets what Odell did his first two years. At least most morons are past calling him "Becky"

Why do you post on a board you seem to think so poorly of?

In comment 13119505 okiegiant said:

Quote:

I wonder if any of those posters are still around and if they would admit to being idiots.

What about the shit people said about JPP last year?

In comment 13119477 BigBlueShock said:

Quote:

Has been in the league longer. Compare OBJs first two seasons with Browns. No comparison. Brown is the better WR right now. Experience and maturity will get Beckham there. Give it time.

this isn't true...at all.
Enjoy - ( New Window )

In comment 13119603 chris r said:

Quote:

In comment 13119493 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Brown had 2 TD's tonight - Beckham none. Which means most of the board now forgets what Odell did his first two years. At least most morons are past calling him "Becky" Why do you post on a board you seem to think so poorly of?

why do you criticize people for being critical of people when they say stupid shit, demand people read their posts by saying the same dumb shit 40 times a day and then not admitting they were foolish when it becomes clear that if you say something once or twice fine...but when you make it a mission to make a point and its just ridiculous, why wouldn't you expect a reply?

Also why do you comment on everyone who doesn't agree with everyone else? And why do you post here 500 times a day and then criticize people who speak on a topic as though they care? Wasn't that your question to me? Why do I like sports so much? You can't even stop yourself from posting over and over.

Quote:

SethFromAstoria : 3:12 am : link : reply this isn't true...at all.

Doesn't that link prove exactly what Shock said? That OBJ's first two seasons dominate Brown's.

This is the part of the game Eli kills us with he is making adjustments right out of the huddle even before getting to the line. I know your going to have some bad play calls but way to often it seems like it would be just much easier to run the play. All to often he changes the play but it's like right into a terrible running play that is just not very challenging for the defense set.

When Eli is at his best the offense is running at a crisp pace before the defense can settle into a comfort level due to time wasted before snapping the ball. The other factor is that all these checks or counters makes the offense look like they are moving at snail pace which I'm sure is not the plan.

I don't like to see that OBJ was in on every offensive play that's not a good sign especially when he was a target for only 8 chances. We have to have a plan in place where he has fresh legs at the end of games and this was the first game.

Bc the Cowboys dominated time of possession. Throughout the last few years we've targeted OBJ a lot.

Not sure if it compares to Brown, but give it this week against the Saints

In comment 13119473 DonQuixote said:

Quote:

...with the possible exception that he has more receiving yards in his first two years than any other receiver in the history of the NFL.

Even though he missed some games in his first year.

of this is:

Quote:

Why do you post on a board you seem to think so poorly of?

Wht do you post at all? Seriously. You never have anything to say that isn't a contrarian take just to be an annoying fuck. Your sole intent is to incite and you are universally dislike here.

And this comes from a poster who has a lot of people who take issue with me calling them out. The difference is, a lot of idiots and people who can't formulate a cogent thought dislike me compared to pretty much the entire population of BBI disliking you.

In comment 13119484 BestFeature said:

Quote:

In comment 13119473 DonQuixote said: Quote: ...with the possible exception that he has more receiving yards in his first two years than any other receiver in the history of the NFL. I guess you're right. I think I get a bit antsy when OBJ doesn't get 100 yards and no TDs, which tells you everything you need to know about the bar he set. And I really think that he has the talent to be considered the best WR in the league.

Get less antsy and look at the W/L column.

Next week he could easily have 150 yards vs the saints

TOP
NYG 23:17
DAL 36:43

is on a hall of fame stretch right now.

I think Beckham is there talent wise, but Brown is crazy refined in every tiny movement he has.

Two totally different schemes. The Giants, a version of the west coast offense with some downfield principals. Haley's offense is more predicated on short short passes like hitches and screens that open up different things. Philisophically they are different. The Steelers also took advantage of some stupid defensive scheme that saw a CB covering Brown who NO ONE has ever heard of.

The name of the game is WIN. Giants are 1-0

Would you people ever stop complaining?

In comment 13119605 chris r said:

Quote:

In comment 13119505 okiegiant said: Quote: I wonder if any of those posters are still around and if they would admit to being idiots. What about the shit people said about JPP last year?

I think they were idiots, as well. I had my doubts JPP would be back but some people took the incident beyond personally.

Apples to oranges comparison by the way. Beckham was injured and being held out...JPP was, of course, self inflicted.

I get impatient and want to get the ball in OBJs hands at any cost, then I realize there's a gameplan and other guys you need to get involved.

You start seeing Crush and Shep making plays, and you'll see a lot of stuff open up over the top for OBJ.

Bottom line I'd rather he get quality not quantity touches.

Brown had 8 catches on 11 targets. Brown caught roughly 80% of his targets while Beckham only 50%. 3 more passes went to Brown and he caught 30% more of his passes. If Beckham would have caught a couple more passes then it would have looked better.

are 1a and 1b for me, i've had this opinion for a while now. The league is changing and speed/route running is probably more valuable now than the big RZ target freak which is why I like both over Julio Jones.

But the situations are vastly different. I think you can interchange the players and have just about the same success if they swapped teams. IMO every kid out their should model their games after these two, their precision is mind blowing.

It's a game of matchups, and I would bet any amount of money Brown faces more 1:1 matchups than Beckham. If we had a running game where teams had to put an extra man in the box from time to time, you would see ODB explode.

at 5.5 a pop, I can pretty much assure you Odell's numbers would have been better.

notably moreso than Manning. He's gotten way better (and the stats reflect this), but Manning will still throw high fairly often, like the endzone ball to Beckham...a sure TD if he threw it at OB's chest.

That obviously helps Brown vs Beckham but it's only one factor among several.

In comment 13119621 GiantFilthy said:

Quote:

Quote: SethFromAstoria : 3:12 am : link : reply this isn't true...at all. Doesn't that link prove exactly what Shock said? That OBJ's first two seasons dominate Brown's.

Thank you Filthy. I'm not sure what Seths point is, my point was that OBJ has had much more success early on in his career than Brown did. Assuming OBJ continues to progress, the sky is the limit. I wouldn't trade OBJ for Brown or any other WR in football.

and someone will start a thread about Eli focusing too much on Beckham to the detriment of the offense.

Brown had almost 2,000 yards last year. Yes OBJ is great and had a better first two years than Brown did, and in 3-5 years could be the best WR in the NFL.

But Brown is the best WR in the game right now. He's five years older than Odell.

Absurd to think Brown was a sixth round pick. Check out this scouting report on him (see link):
Review of Brown - ( New Window )

1. As previously mentioned, Ben does a good job of creating himself more time in the pocket. Eli is great at feeling the pressure and side stepping but Ben is very good throwing on the run. AB is great at giving Ben a target in those situation.

2. Like the Giants do, the Steelers look for ways to move AB around, create mismatches, find ways to get AB the ball. They just do it a lot more than the Giants do. Giants look to spread the ball around more. I think the Steelers just have more plays to "feature" AB.

3. After just these 2 games to review on the season I also believe the Cowboys worked a little harder to control OBJ than the Skins did to control AB. As has been discussed in many threads here already, the Skins stuck to their zone keeping their DBs on one side. AB had plenty of single coverage on a rookie DB. Cowboys had OBJ doubled, their best DB, or both on OBJ.

On to more talented. I think OBJ "could" very well have a slight bit more talent than AB. However it's really too close to call for sure. For now, AB has more experience and a higher maturity level. My fear is OBJ will want to take on Norman every chance he gets. AB was just fine (maybe even preferred) to stay away from Norman. Not because he can't beat Norman but because he can be that much more dangerous away from him. Play to win the game and not the matchup.

Brown catches a lot of screens and quick passes to get him in space the giants did this with nicks a lot for some reason it doesnt seem part of the gameplan with OBJ

will open up the playbook for Beckham more and more as the season goes on. Designed plays to get Backham the ball at the LOS is something I can see being worked in much more.

This offense is still a work in progress despite having very good weapons. New HC new OC while the regime in Pitt has been pretty consistent the past few years.

In comment 13119623 Dragon said:

Quote:

This is the part of the game Eli kills us with he is making adjustments right out of the huddle even before getting to the line. I know your going to have some bad play calls but way to often it seems like it would be just much easier to run the play. All to often he changes the play but it's like right into a terrible running play that is just not very challenging for the defense set.

You mean like in the preseason, where Eli is generally just "running the play" and not adjusting to get us into positions to actually exploit alignments and coverages the defense puts out? We were pretty effective there...

Quote:

When Eli is at his best the offense is running at a crisp pace before the defense can settle into a comfort level due to time wasted before snapping the ball. The other factor is that all these checks or counters makes the offense look like they are moving at snail pace which I'm sure is not the plan.

This is true, but in two minute/hurry-up situations, players are aware of a number of possible calls (different protections, routes, run plays, etc.) and Eli is making a call at the line based on what he sees. In huddles during stoppages of play, there are usually a few calls/combinations made.

Part of the difficulty in running that offense is the variability, and importance of recognizing a defense and getting a team into the right play based on the look. The Giants' effectiveness in that phase of the game is a testament to Eli's intellect as a quarterback... precisely the opposite of "killing us with adjustments"; to the contrary, those adjustments are among the reasons it works.

You can't expect every aspect of the offense to shine
in the 1st game . Getting a win in this game is Huge .
Now they have some game film to work off of not only
ours but the Saint's as well .
We should become more consistent each week the young and
new players got there feet wet .
The few times I really got riled was a slow developing
run play trying to get Jennings to the outside I just
don't feel that it's not so much the play but the guy
carrying the ball . Jennings does not have great speed
or quick moves to be effective running wide .
We have a chance to put some distance in the standings early . Having the Saints at home is a blessing sure
Breese is capable of burning us but moreso in the dome .
Redskins and the Boys despise each other and if we can
come on on top this week . I think we can make a statement against the Skins .

In comment 13119621 GiantFilthy said:

Quote:

Quote: SethFromAstoria : 3:12 am : link : reply this isn't true...at all. Doesn't that link prove exactly what Shock said? That OBJ's first two seasons dominate Brown's.

my fault. Completely misread the point. I thought he was saying it the other way around. Apologies.

There are 4 reasons Brown gets more receptions...

1. They scheme for him better especially on short stuff, Chris Simms had a great breakdown of Odell vs. Brown on a Yahoo/NFL segment last year that showed how much more diverse Brown's routes were

2. Ben buys more time and takes longer to get rid of the ball than Eli, giving Antonio more broken/extended plays to work with

3. Antonio is more experienced and thus, knows more tricks of the WR trade when it comes to route running and finding soft spots

4. He has the best start-stop of any top WR around, better than Odell. He has more of a Punt Returner skillset than Odell and while Odell is more explosive, Brown is shiftier

In comment 13119742 BigBlueShock said:

Quote:

In comment 13119621 GiantFilthy said: Quote: Quote: SethFromAstoria : 3:12 am : link : reply this isn't true...at all. Doesn't that link prove exactly what Shock said? That OBJ's first two seasons dominate Brown's. Thank you Filthy. I'm not sure what Seths point is, my point was that OBJ has had much more success early on in his career than Brown did. Assuming OBJ continues to progress, the sky is the limit. I wouldn't trade OBJ for Brown or any other WR in football.

Yeah its just that I read it as you saying the opposite. Its funny because I was watching Randy Moss talk about how he's the best (not the guy who just ended his rookie records) and I wanted to check a comparison. And yeah Beckham has been better.