The misconception: That Eli is not to blame for the interception, that it was 87's fault for not returning to the ball.
Why? It's easy to see that Shepard did not make much of an effort to return to the ball. Clearly Shepard ran a poor route and wasn't in position to make the catch, and worse, to defend the ball. This opinion is validated by McAdoo's explanation in his presser where he said:
| "Sterling's got to get some better separation come back down the stem and he turned the wrong way." |
Why is this wrong? Well - it's not wrong to find fault with Shepard. He clearly didn't win on his route. But why is Eli to blame? Well, a QB's first job is to protect the football. Why was Eli throwing to Shepard in the first place? Was he the primary receiver? He wasn't. Eli actually threw to him after deciding his chances for completing down the middle were not good for whatever reason.
McAdoo:
| We were trying to win down the middle, Eli hitched up tried to push the ball outside. |
emphasis added.
Sterling ran a route and didn't win it. He didn't create separation. He wasn't open. He compounded the mistake by turning the wrong way and not being able to defend the ball.
It's clear that SS didn't win on his route, but Eli is still to blame. He threw a ball he should not have thrown. Replays show that he barely looked and probably didn't have a good view of that side of the field.
I'm not down on Eli. He's a gambler, who takes chances and counts on his receivers to win on their routes. He counts on them to be where they are supposed to be and to not make mistakes. Gambling like this leads to lots of great plays. It is not a major problem generally speaking, as long as your receivers are reliable route runners. Having said that - the QB who gambles isn't protecting the football.
Okay - I know BBI is going to kill me for this post - but go ahead and tell me why I'm wrong.
I'm not down on Eli. He's a gambler, who takes chances and counts on his receivers to win on their routes. He counts on them to be where they are supposed to be and to not make mistakes. Gambling like this leads to lots of great plays. It is not a major problem generally speaking, as long as your receivers are reliable route runners. Having said that - the QB who gambles isn't protecting the football.
All the great QBs are gamblers to varying degrees..That's what makes them great, imv
The INT is on the WR... however Eli should have seen he was covered and the route was trash due to the positioning of the players.
Enough blame to go around.
repeatedly
SS ran a poor route and then turned the wrong way.
Eli threw the ball to where the WR was supposed to be, and clearly did not see that Shepherd had run a terrible route.
We can say Eli should not have thrown it, and that is fair, but the ball has to come out on time. Eli hitched it up because the middle was not open to him. The ball was already coming out later than intended, so he let it go. Not the right call, but in fairness, I understand the thought process. If SS ran a proper route he is likely in a good position to prevent the INT. Dallas defended the play well. Threw off the timing, forced Eli to make a late decision. It happens.
I agree. When I blame Eli for a play, you know he is to blame.
I also agree that it's okay that Eli is a gambler and that we should expect some picks if we're going to have a powerful passing attack, especially if we're going to rely on a rookie as part of that attack.
I also agree that this route is certainly not an indictment of Shepard - he's a very talented guy who just didn't win.
I just wanted to provide a counter-argument to those who only see this as SS's fault. He didn't win on his route, and he turned the wrong way. That doesn't make the move a smart one on Eli's part, and doesn't absolve him of responsibility for the INT. I only made this post because I've read so many times since Sunday that the INT was on SS and that McAdoo said so. He didn't exactly say that - he simply explained what went wrong.
Eli is almost always responsible for the INT's. We shouldn't be discounting INT's to defend him every time.
Nice try - but Eli was not throwing to SS as the 1st read. It was likely his 3rd. So Eli has to look to see where the CB is before throwing that way.
There is no doubt SS screwed up twice, poor route result, turned the wrong way, then compounded it by not even looking and coming back to the ball - I see why BM was pissed.
But Eli HAS to at least locate the DB before just throwing in the general direction of where the WR should be.
They both laid an egg.
I do find it weird people come on to the thread to post "Why do we care?" It is a message board to talk about Giants football. A play from the most recent game doesn't exactly seem like an out of bounds topic, even if it is one you aren't interested in.
But I think the concern is that can Eli find a way to be just a little bit better with not making turnovers? We just watched the Giants first string offense during the preseason not be able to move the ball at all, and the Giants will face much better defensive lines/pass rushers than what Dallas had on the field on Sunday... a game in which the Giants offense, in addition to the Interception, also punted the ball 5 times. So there is a bit of room for concern still, I believe, that the offense needs to click a bit better and get more points. I don't think the expectation for Eli to be a bit better in this area is unfair criticism, even if, for now, it should be mild criticism.
Most of the throws in the Giants offense involve throwing to a spot and counting on a receiver to get himself open.
If you take away all those throws, we basically don't have an offense anymore.
Number B, when I re-watched the play, Sterling "finished" his route, stopped running, and then did nothing. Didn't look back let alone come back. I would classify that giving up on the play even though "he ran his route" or didn't finish it as expected, looking to help the QB.
However, most of the blame for the final result has to go to Shepard. There is absolutely no excuse for WR to pull up like that. He needs to finish and if the CB is beating him to the point he has an opportunity to do something to prevent the INT. Shepard made it easy for the CB.
Some sites, such as PFF, seeem to put all of the blame on Eli. I think thats why most of us here aren't happy with it.
SS is still a rookie and is going to make mistakes. I have a BOATLOAD more faith that he will correct that and be an absolute stud in the future. One of those learning plays that will only make him better going forward.
This.
^^There you go^^
It's all on Sheperd, or 90% and 10% to Eli
"'cause I didn't like the way he died".
Would a conservative QB avoid that pass because he didn't look in that direction first? Sure. But that's also what tends to keep DBs from jumping routes.
At worst, Eli's pass should have been broken up by Carr. That it was intercepted was on Shepard, by and large.
Failing that, I would like to know how we have the balls to call them liars. Not to their faces, but call them that just the same.
Finally, I'm trying to figure out their motivations in lying to protect an established veteran, who is a certain HOF-er, and who has never shown a propensity for rabbit ears, over a rookie trying to gain acceptance from the coach, trust from his QB, and generally fit in. A little help?
Sorry, I went back and watched that a half dozen times. Carr already had position in front of SS and Eli was looking right at them BEFORE he threw the ball. And even if SS had tried to come back for it, Eli threw low where he couldn't contest it. Carr caught it on his knees. The only thing SS could have done would have been to take a penalty running over Carr. Bad route? Most likely. But also a poor decision to throw the pass.
Let's be honest, as good as Eli can be at times, he can also be dreadfully bad; and he's always gotten a pass. He's teflon.
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The end
This.
It was a bad play by both players. No one is disagreeing with that. But that isn't "the end," as the coach placed full blame on Shepard. So the discussion now is to whether or not that was justified.
Keep up.
However, most of the blame for the final result has to go to Shepard. There is absolutely no excuse for WR to pull up like that. He needs to finish and if the CB is beating him to the point he has an opportunity to do something to prevent the INT. Shepard made it easy for the CB.
Some sites, such as PFF, seeem to put all of the blame on Eli. I think thats why most of us here aren't happy with it.
Good post and explanation
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I've been perplexed why Eli got a full pass from McAdoo. Hopefully it was just something Sterling needed to hear and that's why, but he forced it for sure.
Let's be honest, as good as Eli can be at times, he can also be dreadfully bad; and he's always gotten a pass. He's teflon.
He's always gotten a pass? What???
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In comment 13122192 AP in Halfmoon said:
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The end
This.
It was a bad play by both players. No one is disagreeing with that. But that isn't "the end," as the coach placed full blame on Shepard. So the discussion now is to whether or not that was justified.
Keep up.
Fuck off. Any one with half a brain knows what happened on the play. You discussing it changes nothing
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I've been perplexed why Eli got a full pass from McAdoo. Hopefully it was just something Sterling needed to hear and that's why, but he forced it for sure.
Let's be honest, as good as Eli can be at times, he can also be dreadfully bad; and he's always gotten a pass. He's teflon.
This is nonsense.
The correct answer that for some bizarre reason people just can't seem to accept -- to a point where coaches are now idiots, assholes, and/or afraid of Eli's wrath -- is that McAdoo and Ryan (and Shepard) know more than anyone on this board does about what was supposed to happen on a given play in their offense.
Failing that, I would like to know how we have the balls to call them liars. Not to their faces, but call them that just the same.
Finally, I'm trying to figure out their motivations in lying to protect an established veteran, who is a certain HOF-er, and who has never shown a propensity for rabbit ears, over a rookie trying to gain acceptance from the coach, trust from his QB, and generally fit in. A little help?
Not sure if you are referring to me here Bill, but I'll respond as though you are.
First of all, I'm not disagreeing with McAdoo. I'm disagreeing with a common interpretation of his words. He's clearly explaining what went wrong. He was asked if it was a communication problem. He responded explaining what went wrong. He wasn't asked who was at fault.
A lot of people see the issue as only which way did Shepard turn at the top of the route. He started with explaining that SS needed to get better separation. This is overlooked by many here - who simply think that turning at the top of the route would have eliminated the INT. The reality is that the DB was not fooled on the route and was prepared to jump it. Had SS not given up on the play he might have been able to defend it, but given how tight the coverage was, and how the defender was waiting on the route, it's no sure thing that the INT could have been prevented.
I've not said nor implied that the coach would lie about who was at fault to protect Eli. I would agree with you that this is illogical. I'm suggesting that the question wasn't about who was at fault - it was about what went wrong. To me, the primary thing that went wrong was that SS didn't create separation, and the secondary thing that went wrong is that he turned the wrong way. I would've answered the same question in the same way as BM.
Had I been asked the question of who is to blame, I might have added in that Eli has to do a better job of "protecting The Duke", and I suspect he might have as well.
It's BBI who takes BM's statements and turns them into arguments for how Eli shares none of the blame.
I just wanted to set the record straight regarding the coach's comments.
As mentioned on Sunday- ss needs to finish his route- and Eli needs to not throw across the field to a secondary option off his back foot a bit on a covered comeback route in our own territory- there are lessons to be learned for all.
Amen JonC! You just made me smile, because I always do the same.
I BBI misinterpreting McAdoo when Shepard says the same thing?
Link - ( New Window )
The problem: the result you see -- Carr standing between Eli and Sheppard -- only occurs because of Sheppard's actions. Eli releases the ball before the receiver is supposed to make his cut. Sheppard is supposed to be running a hook and come back to the ball. If he does that, he's between Carr and Eli. And there's no interception.
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“Just the little things, the little mistakes. I got to stick to what I know, pretty much. I caused the interception,(emphasis mine) running the wrong routes. I gotta just stick to what I know, do what I’m taught, not let the game get to me,” Shepard told Metro.
I BBI misinterpreting McAdoo when Shepard says the same thing? Link - ( New Window )
This is Shepard taking the blame. He is correct when he says he needs to do things better.
The BBI misconception is a subtle one. Shepard clearly lost on the route and compounded his mistake. Both Shepard and McAdoo have confirmed that.
BBI is wrong when they say that Eli is not to blame. Eli has to accept responsibility for winging the ball downfield without checking the target. I know that it's a timing route, but there are reads he can make that tell him whether the throw should be made.
I'm not his coach so I don't know what he's been told, but even I know that you can check how the route is developing to determine whether you should throw the ball. The DB had inside leverage and hadn't flipped his hips to turn downfield. This means that SS hadn't sold the route, and a short, inside throw would have been nearly impossible to complete. When a receiver has a very small chance of completing the reception, the QB has to not throw the ball. In this case Eli threw it anyway. A testament to the confidence he has in SS.
Again - this isn't really a knock on Eli, just a reminder that we have to accept that sometimes, even when the receiver runs a bad route or fails to defend the ball, the QB is ultimately responsible for the pick. McAdoo's explanation of what went wrong was not meant to absolve Eli of all blame, as many here seem want to believe.
This, and the team's head coach said the same thing so why is it still being questioned?
The kids a rookie and it is to be expected that some mistakes will happen. If anything Eli maybe should not have gone that way based on that aspect
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He trusts the WR to either win and get open or at least be in a position to prevent the INT. Neither happened.
This, and the team's head coach said the same thing so why is it still being questioned?
The kids a rookie and it is to be expected that some mistakes will happen. If anything Eli maybe should not have gone that way based on that aspect
Mark this down people, it wont happen often!
- if we have a communication problem between QB and rookie, why the f is he out there and not prepared such that our QB fires the ball automatically in assuming everything is completely fine. BS.
- Do you think we would be having the same conversation if this were a highly competitive high stakes playoff or championship game? I guarantee we would be discussing why did the rookie do what he did and why did Eli recklessly fire that ball in there assuming all is well.
Sorry do not buy it. Its a team game that requires communication otherwise why do we need real people out there? Eli gets the benefit of the doubt due to his franchise status, pay, and accomplishments. But like I said if this happened in a super important game I doubt this conversation would be the same even from the coaching.
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In comment 13122206 Andy in Halifax said:
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He trusts the WR to either win and get open or at least be in a position to prevent the INT. Neither happened.
This, and the team's head coach said the same thing so why is it still being questioned?
The kids a rookie and it is to be expected that some mistakes will happen. If anything Eli maybe should not have gone that way based on that aspect
Then I have to ask, if it's Eli' fault or he shares the blame because he threw to a receiver that is not ready to be on the field, then why was he on the field in the first place?
Because any Rookie has a learning curve and the only way to overcome it is playing time. If this was not the case then they would come out of college completely game ready, how many times do you see that?
- if we have a communication problem between QB and rookie, why the f is he out there and not prepared such that our QB fires the ball automatically in assuming everything is completely fine. BS.
- Do you think we would be having the same conversation if this were a highly competitive high stakes playoff or championship game? I guarantee we would be discussing why did the rookie do what he did and why did Eli recklessly fire that ball in there assuming all is well.
Sorry do not buy it. Its a team game that requires communication otherwise why do we need real people out there? Eli gets the benefit of the doubt due to his franchise status, pay, and accomplishments. But like I said if this happened in a super important game I doubt this conversation would be the same even from the coaching.
So the coach just made this up? Could you explain why he would do that?
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In comment 13122201 Mike in Long Beach said:
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I've been perplexed why Eli got a full pass from McAdoo. Hopefully it was just something Sterling needed to hear and that's why, but he forced it for sure.
Let's be honest, as good as Eli can be at times, he can also be dreadfully bad; and he's always gotten a pass. He's teflon.
This is nonsense.
The correct answer that for some bizarre reason people just can't seem to accept -- to a point where coaches are now idiots, assholes, and/or afraid of Eli's wrath -- is that McAdoo and Ryan (and Shepard) know more than anyone on this board does about what was supposed to happen on a given play in their offense.
Absolutely, the stretch of imagination applied to this subject is baffling to say the least. The HC already gave an explanation, but to the experts on BBI he is incorrect
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“Just the little things, the little mistakes. I got to stick to what I know, pretty much. I caused the interception,(emphasis mine) running the wrong routes. I gotta just stick to what I know, do what I’m taught, not let the game get to me,” Shepard told Metro.
I BBI misinterpreting McAdoo when Shepard says the same thing? Link - ( New Window )
This is Shepard taking the blame. He is correct when he says he needs to do things better.
The BBI misconception is a subtle one. Shepard clearly lost on the route and compounded his mistake. Both Shepard and McAdoo have confirmed that.
BBI is wrong when they say that Eli is not to blame. Eli has to accept responsibility for winging the ball downfield without checking the target. I know that it's a timing route, but there are reads he can make that tell him whether the throw should be made.
I'm not his coach so I don't know what he's been told, but even I know that you can check how the route is developing to determine whether you should throw the ball. The DB had inside leverage and hadn't flipped his hips to turn downfield. This means that SS hadn't sold the route, and a short, inside throw would have been nearly impossible to complete. When a receiver has a very small chance of completing the reception, the QB has to not throw the ball. In this case Eli threw it anyway. A testament to the confidence he has in SS.
Again - this isn't really a knock on Eli, just a reminder that we have to accept that sometimes, even when the receiver runs a bad route or fails to defend the ball, the QB is ultimately responsible for the pick. McAdoo's explanation of what went wrong was not meant to absolve Eli of all blame, as many here seem want to believe.
Do you understand QB play at all? The way you think about it is the reason a guy like Tebow is out of the league. Good QBs throw the ball BEFORE the receiver is open. BEFORE the WR gets to the place where he supposed to catch it. Sometimes he doesn't get back to the spot. Shit happens.
You seem to just want to blame the QB no matter what because he's "supposed to protect the ball". That's a myopic approach to the game.
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In comment 13122625 PeterinAtlanta said:
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“Just the little things, the little mistakes. I got to stick to what I know, pretty much. I caused the interception,(emphasis mine) running the wrong routes. I gotta just stick to what I know, do what I’m taught, not let the game get to me,” Shepard told Metro.
I BBI misinterpreting McAdoo when Shepard says the same thing? Link - ( New Window )
This is Shepard taking the blame. He is correct when he says he needs to do things better.
The BBI misconception is a subtle one. Shepard clearly lost on the route and compounded his mistake. Both Shepard and McAdoo have confirmed that.
BBI is wrong when they say that Eli is not to blame. Eli has to accept responsibility for winging the ball downfield without checking the target. I know that it's a timing route, but there are reads he can make that tell him whether the throw should be made.
I'm not his coach so I don't know what he's been told, but even I know that you can check how the route is developing to determine whether you should throw the ball. The DB had inside leverage and hadn't flipped his hips to turn downfield. This means that SS hadn't sold the route, and a short, inside throw would have been nearly impossible to complete. When a receiver has a very small chance of completing the reception, the QB has to not throw the ball. In this case Eli threw it anyway. A testament to the confidence he has in SS.
Again - this isn't really a knock on Eli, just a reminder that we have to accept that sometimes, even when the receiver runs a bad route or fails to defend the ball, the QB is ultimately responsible for the pick. McAdoo's explanation of what went wrong was not meant to absolve Eli of all blame, as many here seem want to believe.
Do you understand QB play at all? The way you think about it is the reason a guy like Tebow is out of the league. Good QBs throw the ball BEFORE the receiver is open. BEFORE the WR gets to the place where he supposed to catch it. Sometimes he doesn't get back to the spot. Shit happens.
You seem to just want to blame the QB no matter what because he's "supposed to protect the ball". That's a myopic approach to the game.
I can't say I'm an expert, but I do understand the concept of a timing route, and throwing the ball before the receiver is open. I tried to say that before but you seem firm in your belief that I think aQB must wait until he's open to throw the ball.
There are a lot of reads that aQB has that tell whether the route has a chance. The defense shows looks and the defenders show their technique. In a system like Gilbride's the QB and receiver has tons of them and adjusted their routes accordingly. While this offense has fewer route adjustments, the need to read the defense is still there. Eli didn't do that. Watch the play again. He looks over the middle of the field hesitates then turns and throws to SS. It's pretty clear that his line of sight was obstructed and he never hesitated.
Eli decided he didn't like the throw over the middle and so he chucked it where SS was supposed to be. The defender has perfect positioning and made the play.
Let me ask a question, if the QB throws the ball where the receiver is supposed to be on a timing route, are they EVER responsible for a pick?
- if we have a communication problem between QB and rookie, why the f is he out there and not prepared such that our QB fires the ball automatically in assuming everything is completely fine. BS.
- Do you think we would be having the same conversation if this were a highly competitive high stakes playoff or championship game? I guarantee we would be discussing why did the rookie do what he did and why did Eli recklessly fire that ball in there assuming all is well.
Sorry do not buy it. Its a team game that requires communication otherwise why do we need real people out there? Eli gets the benefit of the doubt due to his franchise status, pay, and accomplishments. But like I said if this happened in a super important game I doubt this conversation would be the same even from the coaching.
ugh just go away.
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In comment 13122698 Dan in the Springs said:
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In comment 13122625 PeterinAtlanta said:
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“Just the little things, the little mistakes. I got to stick to what I know, pretty much. I caused the interception,(emphasis mine) running the wrong routes. I gotta just stick to what I know, do what I’m taught, not let the game get to me,” Shepard told Metro.
I BBI misinterpreting McAdoo when Shepard says the same thing? Link - ( New Window )
This is Shepard taking the blame. He is correct when he says he needs to do things better.
The BBI misconception is a subtle one. Shepard clearly lost on the route and compounded his mistake. Both Shepard and McAdoo have confirmed that.
BBI is wrong when they say that Eli is not to blame. Eli has to accept responsibility for winging the ball downfield without checking the target. I know that it's a timing route, but there are reads he can make that tell him whether the throw should be made.
I'm not his coach so I don't know what he's been told, but even I know that you can check how the route is developing to determine whether you should throw the ball. The DB had inside leverage and hadn't flipped his hips to turn downfield. This means that SS hadn't sold the route, and a short, inside throw would have been nearly impossible to complete. When a receiver has a very small chance of completing the reception, the QB has to not throw the ball. In this case Eli threw it anyway. A testament to the confidence he has in SS.
Again - this isn't really a knock on Eli, just a reminder that we have to accept that sometimes, even when the receiver runs a bad route or fails to defend the ball, the QB is ultimately responsible for the pick. McAdoo's explanation of what went wrong was not meant to absolve Eli of all blame, as many here seem want to believe.
Do you understand QB play at all? The way you think about it is the reason a guy like Tebow is out of the league. Good QBs throw the ball BEFORE the receiver is open. BEFORE the WR gets to the place where he supposed to catch it. Sometimes he doesn't get back to the spot. Shit happens.
You seem to just want to blame the QB no matter what because he's "supposed to protect the ball". That's a myopic approach to the game.
I can't say I'm an expert, but I do understand the concept of a timing route, and throwing the ball before the receiver is open. I tried to say that before but you seem firm in your belief that I think aQB must wait until he's open to throw the ball.
There are a lot of reads that aQB has that tell whether the route has a chance. The defense shows looks and the defenders show their technique. In a system like Gilbride's the QB and receiver has tons of them and adjusted their routes accordingly. While this offense has fewer route adjustments, the need to read the defense is still there. Eli didn't do that. Watch the play again. He looks over the middle of the field hesitates then turns and throws to SS. It's pretty clear that his line of sight was obstructed and he never hesitated.
Eli decided he didn't like the throw over the middle and so he chucked it where SS was supposed to be. The defender has perfect positioning and made the play.
Let me ask a question, if the QB throws the ball where the receiver is supposed to be on a timing route, are they EVER responsible for a pick?
Yeah. If it's a shitty throw. That wasn't a shitty throw. The receiver wasn't where he was supposed to be. The guys on the team are the one's who say that. The pros. The experts. The guys who you admit that you're not.
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Let me ask a question, if the QB throws the ball where the receiver is supposed to be on a timing route, are they EVER responsible for a pick?
Yeah. If it's a shitty throw. That wasn't a shitty throw. The receiver wasn't where he was supposed to be. The guys on the team are the one's who say that. The pros. The experts. The guys who you admit that you're not.
Interesting. So it doesn't matter at all if the scheme puts a defender right into the route - the QB has no responsibility for making the throw, it's all on the WR. Also, it doesn't matter if the WR is jammed or slips at the LOS and never gets off - the QB has no responsibility for throwing at a spot the WR clearly never had a chance to get to.
Basically, the QB just has to know where the WR is supposed to be and throw it there. If he knows that has a blindfold on and hits that spot, the rest of what happens is on the receiver.
Got it. Thanks for the education.
Aww, is that the best you can do shithead? It must suck being a miserable fuck like yourself who comes and spouts the same things day in, day out and being completely wrong about it every time.
I know that if I was as fucking stupid as you, I would try not interacting with people period. It must be embarrassing being shown up every time, but the good thing for you is that you probably do not even realize people mock and make fun of you. Yes, you are that guy in the group.
Makes me thinking you've missed my point. I get that the receiver wasn't where he was supposed to be - that I've been clear on. I've agreed with all that McAdoo and Shepard have said on the matter.
What they haven't said is that it was the right decision to make that throw. The misunderstanding I'm getting at is this syllogism:
A. If the QB threw to where the WR was supposed to be, and
B. the WR wasn't there
C. the QB did their job.
That's not always true, and in no way does pointing out B imply C.
McAdoo and Shepard have both admitted to B, not C.
Schemes put players in a position to win 1-on-1 matchups, even on defense. IF the players win these matchups is the difference.
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In comment 13122837 Dan in the Springs said:
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Let me ask a question, if the QB throws the ball where the receiver is supposed to be on a timing route, are they EVER responsible for a pick?
Yeah. If it's a shitty throw. That wasn't a shitty throw. The receiver wasn't where he was supposed to be. The guys on the team are the one's who say that. The pros. The experts. The guys who you admit that you're not.
Interesting. So it doesn't matter at all if the scheme puts a defender right into the route - the QB has no responsibility for making the throw, it's all on the WR. Also, it doesn't matter if the WR is jammed or slips at the LOS and never gets off - the QB has no responsibility for throwing at a spot the WR clearly never had a chance to get to.
Basically, the QB just has to know where the WR is supposed to be and throw it there. If he knows that has a blindfold on and hits that spot, the rest of what happens is on the receiver.
Got it. Thanks for the education.
After reading that, it is apparent that you need even more of an education. This statement by you is pretty stupid
That wasn't the situation. Clearly, the QB is throwing the ball BEFORE the receiver comes out of his break. Again, BEFORE he gets open. EVERYONE has stated the receiver turned the wrong way and couldn't get to the spot. That's not on the QB. That's on the receiver. If you can't grasp this simple concept, there's no point in continuing because you'll never get it.
Okay, there are a handful of people that want to still put this on Eli to some degree. Fine. You're not going to convince anybody otherwise.
Sides have been drawn and every nuance discussed. Nobody is changing their mind at this point.
Bill L - I appreciate the thoughtful response. My issue isn't with what has been said - it's with how it has been interpreted.
As dorgan mentioned yesterday - it's a dead horse. I chose this INT for a discussion point BECAUSE we had evidence that the route was run poorly and the WR failed to defend the ball. It was for that reason that I figured a thread like this might lead to a helpful discussion on what the QB's responsibilities are on these kinds of routes, to help guys like me learn the game.
Showing me I'm wrong by explaining how what Eli did was right would be one thing. Showing me I'm wrong by pointing out that Shepard failed on the play is another.
I'm not attacking Eli either - we have a true gunslinger who's not afraid to take chances. I'm fine with that. I'd rather have a guy who gives a David Tyree a chance to make a play than a guy who's afraid and crumbles and takes the sack every time.
I think the need to defend Eli from accusations by non-Giants fans that he throws too many picks gets carried away into defending too many picks, even the ones that were a decent gamble from the start.
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The receiver wasn't where he was supposed to be. The guys on the team are the one's who say that. The pros. The experts. The guys who you admit that you're not.
Makes me thinking you've missed my point. I get that the receiver wasn't where he was supposed to be - that I've been clear on. I've agreed with all that McAdoo and Shepard have said on the matter.
What they haven't said is that it was the right decision to make that throw. The misunderstanding I'm getting at is this syllogism:
A. If the QB threw to where the WR was supposed to be, and
B. the WR wasn't there
C. the QB did their job.
That's not always true, and in no way does pointing out B imply C.
McAdoo and Shepard have both admitted to B, not C.
I think that when they all said it was the WR's fault, then you don't have to look any further. There are no lines to read between. There's what they said and no reason whatsoever to believe that what they said is not what they meant. [/quote]
I don't think McAdoo or Eli said that it was Shepard's fault though. McAdoo was asked if there was a communication issue on the INT and he explained that there wasn't, that Eli tried to push the ball outside and Shepard didn't gain separation and that he didn't turn the right way.
That doesn't exactly mean that Eli was right to try and push the ball outside, although most on BBI have interpreted it that way.
this is true but Sheperd is the one taking all of the heat