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Eli pass to Cruz on 3rd and 8 with game on line

Btucker : 9/18/2016 8:08 pm
Did anyone else wonder about the play call/throw by Eli on third and eight with 1:48 to play and the ball on the Saints' 36 yard line? ( Saints had 1 timeout remaining )
Obviously I am pleased that it turned out to be the game winning play of the game. However, it was a very risky ( 50/50 ) throw to make given the game situation and given that Cruz was tightly covered the entire route. An interception would have been devastating and might easily have cost the Giants the game. Only a great play by Cruz saved the day.
Why not a safe, short throw for the first down. An incompletion at that point would still have left the Giants within field goal range.
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Eli has stones so big he should need a wheel barrow  
Daniel in MI : 9/18/2016 8:29 pm : link
Seriously, there are QBs in the league who are happy to make the safest play and keep their stats up. Eli plays to win. He goes where the match-ups are and if that means taking the deep shot, he will. If that's an INT or we kick and they come back to win? He's the one that will stand on the podium and take the questions from the NY press. I admit, I don't always like it (I'm sometimes saying just take the first down), but I respect it.

In any case, Eli was dialed in tonight, and he deserved to have a guy make a play for him after 2 clear dropped TDs, etc.
RE: That pass is the difference between Eli Manning...  
Btucker : 9/18/2016 8:31 pm : link
In comment 13128960 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
and about 27 or so other QB's.



.... if you re-watch the play, you will see that the pass should have been
intercepted.
RE: That pass is the difference between Eli Manning...  
odunde : 9/18/2016 8:31 pm : link
In comment 13128960 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
and about 27 or so other QB's.


What Brit said. I was pretty blown away on the replays by how gutsy this throw was. But Eli is a gunslinger who is willing to put a lot of trust in his receivers to hold up their end and make the play. Sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't but it's guys like him who win you hardware.
RE: There's no such  
Btucker : 9/18/2016 8:33 pm : link
In comment 13128902 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
thing as a safe/sure throw on 3rd and 8 when the opposition needs to force a 4th down.



did not intend to suggest safe --- but a safer, easier throw with less risk of pass being intercepted.
RE: RE: That pass is the difference between Eli Manning...  
Jon in NYC : 9/18/2016 8:33 pm : link
In comment 13128971 Btucker said:
Quote:
In comment 13128960 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


and about 27 or so other QB's.




.... if you re-watch the play, you will see that the pass should have been
intercepted.


But it wasn't. Because the WR made the play on the ball. You gotta go trust your guys to make a play on the outside.
He threaded the needle on many throws  
AP in Halfmoon : 9/18/2016 8:33 pm : link
There's no doubt in my mind they'll put up a bunch of points this year.
Eli play  
stretch234 : 9/18/2016 8:34 pm : link
As someone else mentioned - playing to win vs playing not to lose. The difference between those 2 is night and day.
RE: Plays like that are why  
CooksCar55 : 9/18/2016 8:35 pm : link
In comment 13128953 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
Eli's a two-time Super Bowl MVP.


AMEN!
Haha...  
RC02XX : 9/18/2016 8:36 pm : link
There's always those who complain about a play that worked. Bet you still complain about the helmet catch.
RE: That pass is the difference between Eli Manning...  
TexasGmenFan : 9/18/2016 8:36 pm : link
In comment 13128960 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
and about 27 or so other QB's.


bingo. Eli wants to win and is immune to whether his QBR or something is affected
RE: Eli play  
Btucker : 9/18/2016 8:40 pm : link
In comment 13128984 stretch234 said:
Quote:
As someone else mentioned - playing to win vs playing not to lose. The difference between those 2 is night and day.


Going for the first down is NOT playing to lose ---- the deep throw which was almost intercepted was very risky. Only the great play by Cruz prevented a disaster.
Eli  
GruningsOnTheHill : 9/18/2016 8:41 pm : link
played a great game. His completion % would have been even higher than it was had some beautifully-thrown balls not been dropped.

You could point to many "if this hadn't gone the NYG way" moments--like the uncatchable PI against the Saints on that last drive, but if all those ridiculous punch-in-the-nuts losses counted against them last year, I'm happy to have this one in the win column with the Giants sitting at 2-0.
RE: RE: Eli play  
dep026 : 9/18/2016 8:41 pm : link
In comment 13129001 Btucker said:
Quote:
In comment 13128984 stretch234 said:


Quote:


As someone else mentioned - playing to win vs playing not to lose. The difference between those 2 is night and day.



Going for the first down is NOT playing to lose ---- the deep throw which was almost intercepted was very risky. Only the great play by Cruz prevented a disaster.


You claim he should have taken a safer throw. Ok, who was open and where?
The criticism of the play  
an_idol_mind : 9/18/2016 8:42 pm : link
is assuming that the Saints defense wouldn't be sitting at the sticks specifically looking for that short stuff to get a first down. It's also ignoring the chemistry Eli has with his receivers.
Post game interview  
weeg in the bronx : 9/18/2016 8:43 pm : link
Manning said he saw Victor in one on one, was a play he threw to him on lots of times, thought they should do it again since they hadn't in a long time. I am sure he went through some progression but clearly it was a pass he was itching to throw based on his comment. Plus I was sitting next to loud obnoxious Saint fans, the play ended all conversation.
Good Lord  
Bluesbreaker : 9/18/2016 8:46 pm : link
Thats what makes the game fantastic Eli put the ball on
the Money both times ...
Cruz made a great play Eli has confidence in him ..
and that nice to say right now about a month ago 3/4 of this
board had him dead and buried ..
The Saints CBs were giving OBJ and Cruz  
mfsd : 9/18/2016 8:46 pm : link
a pretty good cushion most of the game, but on those 2 passes looked like they moved up to press coverage...I assumed that's why Eli took his shots deep with them one on one
I think Eli was thinking Cruz the whole time  
USAF NYG Fan : 9/18/2016 8:48 pm : link
on that one BUT it was based off his pre-snap read. This is something Eli isn't given enough credit for. He's a damn smart QB.

FF the video to the 1:22 mark.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-york-giants/0ap3000000705104/Giants-postgame-press-conference

If you look at the play he starts by looking left but throws almost immediately to the right.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-york-giants/0ap3000000704637/Can-t-Miss-Play-Victor-Cruz-makes-incredible-35-yard-grab
RE: When it was 2nd and 8 . . .  
Btucker : 9/18/2016 8:49 pm : link
In comment 13128932 Ralph.C said:
Quote:
. . . I was thinking "two plays to get 8 yards" and a fresh set of downs already in FG range. I yelled out "No!" On the long pass to OBJ and ""No!" even louder on the pass to Cruz. Initially, I thought it was horrible play calling. But then I realized that they were throwing to two, premier wide receivers (Welcome back Victor!) against two rookie undrafted free agent corners. I then understood their thinking.


Agree --- but still was no need to take very risky DEEP shots.
RE: RE: When it was 2nd and 8 . . .  
dep026 : 9/18/2016 8:51 pm : link
In comment 13129028 Btucker said:
Quote:
In comment 13128932 Ralph.C said:


Quote:


. . . I was thinking "two plays to get 8 yards" and a fresh set of downs already in FG range. I yelled out "No!" On the long pass to OBJ and ""No!" even louder on the pass to Cruz. Initially, I thought it was horrible play calling. But then I realized that they were throwing to two, premier wide receivers (Welcome back Victor!) against two rookie undrafted free agent corners. I then understood their thinking.



Agree --- but still was no need to take very risky DEEP shots.


You didnt answer my question. Who would you have thrown it too instead?
VC said in his presser  
section125 : 9/18/2016 8:51 pm : link
that Eli gave him the sign to run the fly. So Eli was going there from the get go.
VC seems to be able to home in on those high contested passes. Think back when he beat some top of the line CBs on 50/50 passes in important situations. It is not new
Now how he managed to hold that ball is a mystery - the DB made a good play on the ball.

I am now certain Cruz is back.
RE: RE: That pass is the difference between Eli Manning...  
okiegiant : 9/18/2016 8:53 pm : link
In comment 13128971 Btucker said:
Quote:
In comment 13128960 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


and about 27 or so other QB's.




.... if you re-watch the play, you will see that the pass should have been
intercepted.


But it wasn't...so...
RE: I'll be darned  
Btucker : 9/18/2016 8:53 pm : link
In comment 13128917 grizz299 said:
Quote:
Oh my gosh and Drats
The need to second guess is so compelling that we're going to criticize the game-winning play.


No --- have seen McAdoo make boneheaded calls in the past.
Only a GREAT play by Cruz prevented this play from falling into the same category.
You need to throw it where the best matchup is  
PatersonPlank : 9/18/2016 8:55 pm : link
The defense knows you need 8 yards, so they likely were in a formation where the short passes were covered. This left Cruz 1-on-1. Eli saw this and took advantage. That is what the top QB's do, they find the weak spot and exploit it. How many times have you seen QB's throw into double-coverage, or throw a 4 yd slant, in those situations.
The Cruz pass wasn't a play call  
PatersonPlank : 9/18/2016 8:56 pm : link
The play had multiple passes and its up to Eli to pick the best matchup, or the one that will be open.
RE: RE: I'll be darned  
dep026 : 9/18/2016 8:57 pm : link
In comment 13129042 Btucker said:
Quote:
In comment 13128917 grizz299 said:


Quote:


Oh my gosh and Drats
The need to second guess is so compelling that we're going to criticize the game-winning play.



No --- have seen McAdoo make boneheaded calls in the past.
Only a GREAT play by Cruz prevented this play from falling into the same category.


Why wont you answer my question. Its a pretty simple one.
It was a perfectly placed ball by eli  
EJV79 : 9/18/2016 9:00 pm : link
and a hell of an athletic play be cruz
RE: The Cruz pass wasn't a play call  
section125 : 9/18/2016 9:08 pm : link
In comment 13129051 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
The play had multiple passes and its up to Eli to pick the best matchup, or the one that will be open.


You are right. VC said Eli gave him the sign to run that route.
The Giants couldn't run the ball today  
eclipz928 : 9/18/2016 9:17 pm : link
and Josh Brown was not going to hit a 50+ yard field goal. After Odell dropped the pass on 2nd Down Giants pretty much needed at least a 10-yard completion to win the game - deep pass made sense.
If Giants throw..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/18/2016 9:27 pm : link
a 6 yard pass and kick a FG and then give up the winning score, people would say McAdoo or eli played scared. They play to win and people still shit their pants.

i really don't get this fucking place more and more.
you are a  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/18/2016 9:35 pm : link
mosquito circumciser
The entire premise is wrong  
AP in Halfmoon : 9/18/2016 9:40 pm : link
The risky play was forcing a 10 yard crossing route where the DBs were camped. The other advantage- when teams see the film, it creates problems for DCs
Big game hunters  
trueblueinpw : 9/18/2016 9:47 pm : link
Eli and Cruz aren't game managers, they are big time players that make big time plays. As the Tuna might say, these guys have some pelts on the wall. Haven't seen the replay but at the game you could just sense that the Aints would roll the S over to OBJ who just beat his man easily and that left Cruz in man coverage. The play was there and the two time Super Bowl MVP made the throw and his thousand yard per season, play making WR went up and got the ball to win the game

Try and enjoy it, Eli, Shep and OBJ and Cruz are gonna make a lot of DBs look silly this year.
RE: Big game hunters  
section125 : 9/18/2016 9:53 pm : link
In comment 13129175 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Eli and Cruz aren't game managers, they are big time players that make big time plays. As the Tuna might say, these guys have some pelts on the wall. Haven't seen the replay but at the game you could just sense that the Aints would roll the S over to OBJ who just beat his man easily and that left Cruz in man coverage. The play was there and the two time Super Bowl MVP made the throw and his thousand yard per season, play making WR went up and got the ball to win the game

Try and enjoy it, Eli, Shep and OBJ and Cruz are gonna make a lot of DBs look silly this year.


trueblue you hit the nail on the head. After two games, I now feel confortable Cruz is back. Damn three very good to outstanding WRs. Would like to see King get into a 4 WR set....
Cruz  
trueblueinpw : 9/18/2016 10:01 pm : link
I was saying at the game, you hate to see Cruz fumble, of course, but that was 10 yard catch and then a sweet sweet Cruz YAC run for 30 yards. The two years off are gonna leave some rust but the wheels are turning for Victah and it's so nice to watch because his one of the good guys.
Eli has brass balls  
Paulie Walnuts : 9/18/2016 11:02 pm : link
.
Sports "pundits" and football people  
Montreal Man : 9/18/2016 11:52 pm : link
are always praising WR's and TE's who MAKE A PLAY. That's as much as part of the QB and WR relationship. Give your wideout a chance to show what he can do. That's what Eli did and Cruz sure showed us what he can do, as he usually does.
Any time you have a WR one-on-one down the field  
Vanzetti : 9/19/2016 1:11 am : link
you go there. Especially when you have receivers like the Giants do.

NO was stacking the middle of the field, betting Eli would not go deep in that situation. They bet wrong.
.  
NFL4SanAntonio : 9/19/2016 2:17 am : link


The main takeaway from that play  
Mike from SI : 9/19/2016 3:28 am : link
should be that Cruz is back, not a critique of the decision. We may have a three-headed monster at WR. I can't recall the Giants ever having such a skilled WR group in my lifetime. This group is better than Nicks-Cruz-Manningham.
RE: I was expecting a short  
M.S. : 9/19/2016 4:19 am : link
In comment 13128959 bluepepper said:
Quote:
pass to make it a more reasonable FG. They were at the the 36 - that's a 54 yarder. Not sure Ben even tries it. Brown missed from 52 earlier. You can't risk giving Brees the ball back at the 44. A 5-6 yard pass brings the FG under 50 and of course the receiver could pick up the extra couple of yards for a first down. It was a gutsy call by either Ben (if Cruz was the first option) or more likely Eli.

Also the pass really should have been broken up or even intercepted - we'd be killing a Giant DB who let Cruz make that catch.

Exactly! Well played, Sir!
That's what separates Eli from Captain Checkdown on Washington.  
PetesHereNow : 9/19/2016 4:27 am : link
He's gonna trust his guy to go get it. And it was a great play by VC to go get the ball.
If it's intercepted  
hammock man : 9/19/2016 6:07 am : link
it's better than a punt. They get the ball inside the 10.
RE: Plays like that are why  
GloryDayz : 9/19/2016 6:39 am : link
In comment 13128953 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
Eli's a two-time Super Bowl MVP.


And to some extent why he has 200 INTs in his career, and not considered "elite" by some.

But like you said, its those kind of plays that gave us 2 magical SB runs & wins. I'll take the 2 SB wins, & the SB MVPs, thank you very much.

It sucks that when Favre did the same, he was referred to as a "gunslinger", a great HOF QB, who knows when to take chances, but in Eli's case its "but but but..."

I am glad  
Carson53 : 9/19/2016 9:06 am : link
that Cruzzzzz bailed out Beckham, that was a terrible drop!
The thread wouldn't be here about Cruz, if Beckham does his
job, on a relatively easy catch. They came out on top,
but they still have work to do.
My first thought...  
LG in NYC : 9/19/2016 9:10 am : link
after establishing that it was an INT... was that Eli has brass f-ing balls.

That was a gutsy call in that situation, and while I would've been pissed if it didn't work and we lost, I cannot argue that that is Eli, always has been. He is a gunslinger.
RE: RE: I was expecting a short  
section125 : 9/19/2016 9:15 am : link
In comment 13129419 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 13128959 bluepepper said:


Quote:


pass to make it a more reasonable FG. They were at the the 36 - that's a 54 yarder. Not sure Ben even tries it. Brown missed from 52 earlier. You can't risk giving Brees the ball back at the 44. A 5-6 yard pass brings the FG under 50 and of course the receiver could pick up the extra couple of yards for a first down. It was a gutsy call by either Ben (if Cruz was the first option) or more likely Eli.

Also the pass really should have been broken up or even intercepted - we'd be killing a Giant DB who let Cruz make that catch.


Exactly! Well played, Sir!


Brown's missed 53 yarder was a football width or less outside the post with plenty of distance. It wasn't hooked or poorly struck. He just didn't have it lined up correctly. Not a bad miss at all.
Not sure BM attempts the 54 yarder there, just in case of a miss that would have given the Saints the ball on the 44 with less than 2 minutes. If it was earlier in the game, he would definitely try the FG.
RE: .  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/19/2016 10:39 am : link
In comment 13129402 NFL4SanAntonio said:
Quote:




Great GiFs NFL4... !
That was a great play  
DavidinBMNY : 9/19/2016 10:44 am : link
And man he had OBJ the play before. Manning threw the ball perfectly. There should have been at least 3 catches of dropped balls.
In case it's not already been argued: Eli threw the safest pass  
Mark C : 9/19/2016 11:00 am : link
available on that play. If it's picked, Brees gets the ball back inside his own ten yard line. Just like a pooch punt. That was the moment to take a chance and let your player make a play.
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