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Browns Scouts fired before draft wanted Wentz

jlukes : 9/19/2016 6:40 pm
doesn't get much more Brownsier than this


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They may have been wrong about Wentz,  
Mr. Bungle : 9/19/2016 6:43 pm : link
given that Wentz hasn't proven anything yet, other than beating the worst team in the NFL.
Take 29 year old Couch  
joeinpa : 9/19/2016 6:45 pm : link
Pass on Wentz. They just can t seem to get it right
Depotesta sabermetrics  
Giants2012 : 9/19/2016 6:47 pm : link
stick to t-ball
Whether they were right or not on Wentz is immaterial  
Modus Operandi : 9/19/2016 6:49 pm : link
The point is, the Browns fired their scouts just before the draft because their reports didn't jive with what the brain trust wanted.

If you can't trust your scouts, then what have you got? You have a baseball guy running your operations.

Disaster.
Why don't we give Hue Jackson and company some time  
robbieballs2003 : 9/19/2016 6:49 pm : link
To see what they can do. Coleman had a great game yesterday. Way too many franchises fail when they take a QB early when they cannot surround that player with the supporting cast they need. I do not see anything wrong with what the Browns did in the draft. It is hard to change a losing culture like that and it sure as hell isn't happening over night. You have to give them a chance.
1 game  
mattlawson : 9/19/2016 6:50 pm : link
The RG3 thing is more of a red flag to me
Sourgrapes  
Deej : 9/19/2016 6:50 pm : link
Strikes me as really, really unlikely that you'd clean house because of one scouting eval like that, before a draft.. Those people were fired because there was a regime change. Someone with a bad taste in their mouths leaks this now to imply that they were fired BECAUSE of their want of Wentz.

That was a good trade for the Browns. I would not have put all my eggs in the Wentz basket. They got more bodies in and several extra premium picks -- an extra 1, 2, and 3. And then with another trade they got another 2 and a 3. All for not taking a QB they didnt love.

I did not like the top of this draft at all.
TBF  
Toth029 : 9/19/2016 6:51 pm : link
A lot of people were questioning the ability of Wentz. Small school, etc. His future is to be determined.

Gotta feel they'll be picking another QB high next spring.
RE: Sourgrapes  
Modus Operandi : 9/19/2016 6:53 pm : link
In comment 13131186 Deej said:
Quote:
Strikes me as really, really unlikely that you'd clean house because of one scouting eval like that, before a draft.. Those people were fired because there was a regime change. Someone with a bad taste in their mouths leaks this now to imply that they were fired BECAUSE of their want of Wentz.

That was a good trade for the Browns. I would not have put all my eggs in the Wentz basket. They got more bodies in and several extra premium picks -- an extra 1, 2, and 3. And then with another trade they got another 2 and a 3. All for not taking a QB they didnt love.

I did not like the top of this draft at all.


Except, this will be the upteenth time the Browns go into a season without a competent QB. Anyone can accumulate draft picks. At some point you got to settle down your franchise with a guy at the helm who's going to be there.

And you don't stop trying simply because you've failed in the past.

RE: Whether they were right or not on Wentz is immaterial  
Moondawg : 9/19/2016 6:54 pm : link
In comment 13131180 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
The point is, the Browns fired their scouts just before the draft because their reports didn't jive with what the brain trust wanted.

If you can't trust your scouts, then what have you got? You have a baseball guy running your operations.

Disaster.


it's jibe, not jive, soul brother.

Luck hasn't looked great the last 2 years  
robbieballs2003 : 9/19/2016 6:55 pm : link
Not because he isn't capable but because he doesn't have a great supporting cast. He has nice WRs but that is really where it ends. His OL, RB, and defense could all use a serious upgrade. That is a lot to ask of one person.

The Browns have issues so I do not see an issue with them stockpiling picks to play the numbers game while, at the same time, bringing in new players that haven't been part of the losing culture.
(but I'm sympathetic to your point  
Moondawg : 9/19/2016 6:57 pm : link
about the Browns)
RE: RE: Whether they were right or not on Wentz is immaterial  
Modus Operandi : 9/19/2016 6:57 pm : link
In comment 13131198 Moondawg said:
Quote:
In comment 13131180 Modus Operandi said:


Quote:


The point is, the Browns fired their scouts just before the draft because their reports didn't jive with what the brain trust wanted.

If you can't trust your scouts, then what have you got? You have a baseball guy running your operations.

Disaster.



it's jibe, not jive, soul brother.


For someone who has trouble spelling "dog," you've sure got a lot to say.
RE: RE: Sourgrapes  
Deej : 9/19/2016 6:58 pm : link
In comment 13131193 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:


Except, this will be the upteenth time the Browns go into a season without a competent QB. Anyone can accumulate draft picks. At some point you got to settle down your franchise with a guy at the helm who's going to be there.

And you don't stop trying simply because you've failed in the past.


Yes, they dont have a QB. Does that mean they have to take one at #2? Of course not. Drafting for need is a huge mistake. They'll pick high again this year, and can take a QB that the current management has had a fair chance to scout for a full year.

Also, I could just as easily argue that this is the umpteenth time the Browns have gone into a season with a borderline NFL roster. And if you look at it that way, getting the extra picks fills a need.
Browns have a QB guru HC finally  
est1986 : 9/19/2016 7:00 pm : link
And have a lot of picks next year including two potential top 10 picks. I like Goff alot haven't seen much of Wentz to say whether he was deserving of the pick or not. I will say Goff is my favorite QBbcoming out since Luck. I'm glad Goff isn't a Eagle his accuracy/touch is Rodgers/Brees like.
I think you just dont force QB picks  
Deej : 9/19/2016 7:01 pm : link
You dont do it at #2 overall. You dont do it in the 3rd round. If anything I think the Browns have been guilty of taking fairly uninspiring QBs in the first round simply because of need and availability. Couch, Quinn, Weeden, and Manziel -- all blah. You knew they were blah when the Browns took them. But they needed a QB, so WTF amirite?
RE: RE: RE: Sourgrapes  
Modus Operandi : 9/19/2016 7:03 pm : link
In comment 13131211 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13131193 Modus Operandi said:


Quote:




Except, this will be the upteenth time the Browns go into a season without a competent QB. Anyone can accumulate draft picks. At some point you got to settle down your franchise with a guy at the helm who's going to be there.

And you don't stop trying simply because you've failed in the past.




Yes, they dont have a QB. Does that mean they have to take one at #2? Of course not. Drafting for need is a huge mistake. They'll pick high again this year, and can take a QB that the current management has had a fair chance to scout for a full year.

Also, I could just as easily argue that this is the umpteenth time the Browns have gone into a season with a borderline NFL roster. And if you look at it that way, getting the extra picks fills a need.


In not suggesting you draft on need. I've argued as much each season The outlier being QB. If you don't have a QB, find one should be priority #1 - so that you don't end up over drafting...Cody Kessler.
RE: 1 game  
giantgiantfan : 9/19/2016 7:10 pm : link
In comment 13131185 mattlawson said:
Quote:
The RG3 thing is more of a red flag to me


$6.75 guaranteed over 3 years for him. They'll cut him next year with a $1.75 cap hit. I would've taken that gamble if I were them. They'll always be within striking distance of a top prospect, so whats another year?
RE: RE: 1 game  
giantgiantfan : 9/19/2016 7:11 pm : link
In comment 13131249 giantgiantfan said:
Quote:
In comment 13131185 mattlawson said:


Quote:


The RG3 thing is more of a red flag to me



$6.75 guaranteed over 3 years for him. They'll cut him next year with a $1.75 cap hit. I would've taken that gamble if I were them. They'll always be within striking distance of a top prospect, so whats another year?


2 years, sorry.
RE: Why don't we give Hue Jackson and company some time  
Joe in Cambridge : 9/19/2016 7:20 pm : link
In comment 13131182 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
To see what they can do. Coleman had a great game yesterday. Way too many franchises fail when they take a QB early when they cannot surround that player with the supporting cast they need.
Which franchises have failed after drafting a good QB in the first round?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Sourgrapes  
Deej : 9/19/2016 7:23 pm : link
In comment 13131222 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:


In not suggesting you draft on need. I've argued as much each season The outlier being QB. If you don't have a QB, find one should be priority #1 - so that you don't end up over drafting...Cody Kessler.


Whereas I think QB is the last position you draft for need at. Because, particularly with high picks, you're basically committing to a course with that QB over the next 5 or so years. QB decisions are franchise-direction movers, and you cant force a pick like that even if your need is huge.
They are a mess  
KWALL2 : 9/19/2016 7:41 pm : link
but Coleman will be a great pick for them. Did you see the 2nd TD yesterday? The guy is an explosive and very strong runner. He'll be a TD machine and impact player for years.
RE: RE: Whether they were right or not on Wentz is immaterial  
BMac : 9/19/2016 7:53 pm : link
In comment 13131198 Moondawg said:
Quote:
In comment 13131180 Modus Operandi said:


Quote:


The point is, the Browns fired their scouts just before the draft because their reports didn't jive with what the brain trust wanted.

If you can't trust your scouts, then what have you got? You have a baseball guy running your operations.

Disaster.



it's jibe, not jive, soul brother.


It's jive, whitebread. Jive means tio agree; jibe means to change course.
RE: RE: RE: Whether they were right or not on Wentz is immaterial  
Moondawg : 9/20/2016 12:10 am : link
In comment 13131210 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
In comment 13131198 Moondawg said:


Quote:


In comment 13131180 Modus Operandi said:


Quote:


The point is, the Browns fired their scouts just before the draft because their reports didn't jive with what the brain trust wanted.

If you can't trust your scouts, then what have you got? You have a baseball guy running your operations.

Disaster.



it's jibe, not jive, soul brother.




For someone who has trouble spelling "dog," you've sure got a lot to say.


Lol
I think the Browns' approach makes sense overall.  
Big Blue Blogger : 9/20/2016 7:38 am : link
They are building for the long term, and if they didn't love Goff or Wentz, trading down could yield better dividends than forcing the pick.

Jackson really liked Kessler. While the third round may have been early for him, I think you have to keep a little perspective there. They did trade way down in Round Three before taking him. And even if his ceiling really is "game manager/solid career backup" as advertised, getting that with the 93rd pick isn't bad value. The upside of Kessler playing so soon is that the Browns will get a thorough read on him before the 2017 Draft, when they will probably have their pick of what should be a deeper QB class. The downside is that he's stepping into a dumpster fire that has already broken two veteran QBs, when even Jackson has said he's not remotely ready.

Cleveland's true head-scratchers came at the bottom of the fourth round. Kindred and DeValve have the look of "Moneyball" picks, since they don't appear to have been on anyone's radar that early. Contrarianism is fine, but the edge a team get by swimming against the tide is that they can, in theory, draft players later than they have them graded. The Browns may have thrown away that edge by sticking rigidly to their own board. Then again, maybe the Browns graded both players in the top 100, and considered them steals already at 129 and 138. Besides, the 129th and 138th picks are basically dart-throws anyway.
RE: Why don't we give Hue Jackson and company some time  
DonQuixote : 9/20/2016 8:31 am : link
In comment 13131182 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
To see what they can do. Coleman had a great game yesterday. Way too many franchises fail when they take a QB early when they cannot surround that player with the supporting cast they need. I do not see anything wrong with what the Browns did in the draft. It is hard to change a losing culture like that and it sure as hell isn't happening over night. You have to give them a chance.


I agree with this. They started something like 14 rookies in the first week. Seems like they made a decision to wait on a QB and build the team first. I am not saying they are on the right track, it is just that we don't know in the first year of a complete rebuild.
I thought Wentz was better than Goff  
SomeFan : 9/20/2016 8:44 am : link
Seemed LA picked the hometown boy instead of bettrr playrt. Wentz will be a good QB if he kerps away from those crazy hits. He will learn how to avoid them. I believe the Eagles got their longterm QB.
RE: Take 29 year old Couch  
YAJ2112 : 9/20/2016 8:48 am : link
In comment 13131175 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Pass on Wentz. They just can t seem to get it right


Speaking of can't get it right, Couch? You mean Weeden.
Coaching plays a big part in this....  
sober297 : 9/20/2016 9:34 am : link
some teams take for granted that great physical talent needs to be coached up.
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