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Are the Giants using their safeties differently than before?

chris r : 9/19/2016 6:43 pm
It seems like they're playing their safeties in more traditional FS and SS roles than in previous seasons where they were interchangeable. This has played to Collins' strengths closer to the line of scrimmage and he looks primed for a big season.

Has anyone else noticed this?
.  
Danny Kanell : 9/19/2016 6:47 pm : link
Collins has been able to play his natural position which basically has improved both safety positions.
RE: .  
chris r : 9/19/2016 6:53 pm : link
In comment 13131178 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
Collins has been able to play his natural position which basically has improved both safety positions.


So it's true that they've switched to a more traditional FS - SS scheme?
They haven't switched...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/19/2016 6:56 pm : link
they finally have health at the position and because they aren't using duct tape to man the position, Collins is able to come up to the LOS more than he could last year where he was forced into coverage. They had to scheme around the lack of personnel for most of the past two years.
RE: They haven't switched...  
chris r : 9/19/2016 7:06 pm : link
In comment 13131205 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
they finally have health at the position and because they aren't using duct tape to man the position, Collins is able to come up to the LOS more than he could last year where he was forced into coverage. They had to scheme around the lack of personnel for most of the past two years.


I'm not sure I understand. In the past didn't both safeties divide time nearly equally between playing deep and playing close to the line of scrimmage, regardless of who was starting due to injuries? We always heard how they don't use FS-SS descriptors in the scheme and that safeties have to be able to play both.
It would be interesting...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/19/2016 7:11 pm : link
to see the number of snaps taken at the LOS for Collins this year vs. last. I recall he was around the LOS more at the beginning of last year than later on in the year.

So far, he's showing to be quite a force playing up near the LOS this year. Let's hope the Giants are able to keep cheating him up close, because he's a playmaker there.
RE: RE: They haven't switched...  
Modus Operandi : 9/19/2016 7:14 pm : link
In comment 13131231 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 13131205 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


they finally have health at the position and because they aren't using duct tape to man the position, Collins is able to come up to the LOS more than he could last year where he was forced into coverage. They had to scheme around the lack of personnel for most of the past two years.



I'm not sure I understand. In the past didn't both safeties divide time nearly equally between playing deep and playing close to the line of scrimmage, regardless of who was starting due to injuries? We always heard how they don't use FS-SS descriptors in the scheme and that safeties have to be able to play both.


You don't seem to understand the law of averages.

Last year, we had one safety injured. So that means we ran with .5 safeties.

This year we have two safeties. That's a difference of 1.5 safeties.






Amirite?
RE: RE: They haven't switched...  
giantgiantfan : 9/19/2016 7:14 pm : link
In comment 13131231 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 13131205 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


they finally have health at the position and because they aren't using duct tape to man the position, Collins is able to come up to the LOS more than he could last year where he was forced into coverage. They had to scheme around the lack of personnel for most of the past two years.



I'm not sure I understand. In the past didn't both safeties divide time nearly equally between playing deep and playing close to the line of scrimmage, regardless of who was starting due to injuries? We always heard how they don't use FS-SS descriptors in the scheme and that safeties have to be able to play both.


I think last year fans were fed a line of shit about them not having a difference between FS/SS, cause we didn't have a FS. With that said, both Thompson and Collins have looked good tackling near the line of scrimmage and in coverage.
Last year Collins was essentially the FS  
Matt M. : 9/19/2016 9:15 pm : link
This year he is playing his natural SS and is already, thriving. Both Behre in week 1 and Thompson both weeks have also been a big improvement at the other S position already.
Wasn't the traditional role of the SS  
Bill in UT : 9/19/2016 9:19 pm : link
to cover the TE?
Fats is correct  
JonC : 9/20/2016 8:07 am : link
They no longer have to play Collins out of position and try to protect him at FS, or an overmanned SS. They're not forced to scheme to mask weaknesses on the backend any longer.

TE coverage depends on defense call, route run, what route range each defender is responsible for, etc. It could be the SAM, or the SS, etc.
what Fats said  
Victor in CT : 9/20/2016 8:28 am : link
......
FMiC may be correct...  
Klaatu : 9/20/2016 8:50 am : link
But he and others have sidestepped radar's question, which is aren't our Safeties supposed to be interchangeable? Isn't that what we've been told for years?

My answer is yes and no, and before you call that a cop out, let me explain. I think there's a world of difference between wanting your Safeties to be able to play both FS and SS, and recognizing that certain players are better suited to play one vs. the other.

To me, it doesn't make any sense to force a guy like Collins to play FS in the name of "interchangeability" when he's clearly better suited to play SS.

Injuries can always force your hand, of course, and it's good to have guys like Darian Thompson and Nat Berhe who have the versatility to play "centerfield" or "in the box," but there's nothing wrong with keeping your roles strictly defined and playing to the individual strengths of particular players as long as things are working.
There is more to it than that guys...  
EricJ : 9/20/2016 8:55 am : link
last year teams were running on us and we were giving up big plays in the passing game. This year, our front can hold its own in the running game with some support from the LBs.

This in itself is huge and gives you more options in how you position your safeties. Add in the fact that our CB situation is better and what you are seeing now is a situation where safeties are not having to cover for the rest of the defensive shortcomings.
The "interchangeable" answer from Spags  
JonC : 9/20/2016 8:58 am : link
was more about expecting the players to know both positions, and in some cases we saw some flipping based on matchups. But, the emphasis was heavier here on the forum than it was on the field, imv.
Collins also said in an interview yesterday  
SwirlingEddie : 9/20/2016 9:09 am : link
"We trust the call" meaning they have more confidence this season in acting decisively, which you see in Landon's play now and in others on that D.
I did notice Thompson playing deep-centerfield...  
Big Blue Blogger : 9/20/2016 9:54 am : link
...a few times, in what looked like single-high. That's nothing new. It's in every defensive playbook, including Perry Fewell's, despite his "Tampa-2" background. The difference - if there is one - might be that Thompson gives the Giants their first legitimate centerfielder since Kenny Phillips started losing cartilage and range. Rolle in his prime was fine, but it wasn't the best use of his skills. Now Spagnuolo can trust a true single-high safety without much deep help. Obviously, as receivers run their patterns, everyone has to react accordingly. Otherwise, the safety ends up in the kind of bind Thompson was in on the Snead TD, forced to choose between multiple receivers going deep. That one appeared to be on Kelvin Sheppard, who was trailing and got called out by the TV crew. Snead vs. Sheppard is a mismatch under the best of circumstances, so I don't know what the design there was. In any case, it didn't work.

Spagnuolo also seems to like Berhe, whose range could be better than advertised. To the extent Berhe plays centerfield, though, I think it suggests Spagnuolo is anticipating run, and wants numbers in the box with a hitter as the last line of defense.

I'm sure others who can X-and-O better have a clearer read on this.
Definitely on Sheppard  
JonC : 9/20/2016 10:33 am : link
He might not have been able to defend the pass as it reached the receiver anyway, but he turned the wrong way and lost the receiver instead of driving his drop as deep as he could before turning his head to find the ball.
No  
oldog : 9/20/2016 10:52 am : link
its just a return to the Spider Lockhart spirit. There is once again very little safety if you have the ball and one of our safeties is closing. No more powder puff.
Wow  
djstat : 9/20/2016 11:22 am : link
Half the knuckleheads here called Collins a bust in the offseason...

Collins was a great draft pick

- Learning Curve ins 2015 and doing things that he was not accustomed to

- Year older and wiser + better CB's next to and Front 7 in front of
RE: Wow  
Klaatu : 9/20/2016 11:36 am : link
In comment 13132294 djstat said:
Quote:
Half the knuckleheads here called Collins a bust in the offseason...


There was really only one "knucklehead" calling Collins a bust in the offseason and that was the OP, which, when you think about it, is most likely the impetus behind this thread.

Recently, radar has been criticized for saying that Collins was "awful" last year, which is debatable, and also for maintaining that he would not get any better no matter who he was playing with in the defensive backfield, which is ridiculously short-sighted.

Now that Collins has lost a good bit of weight in order to increase his speed, and he's playing next to Darian Thompson and Nat Berhe instead of Brandon Meriweather and Craig Dahl, you might expect radar to say, Hey, maybe I was mistaken about this guy, but you shouldn't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

No, it has to be that the Giants are simply using their Safeties differently. Yeah...that's the ticket.
^^^ nailed it  
Canton : 9/20/2016 11:43 am : link
+1
The Willie Snead touchdown...  
Jimmy Googs : 9/20/2016 12:06 pm : link
Basically not very good coverage from any of our three guys - Sheppard, Collins and Thompson.

Snead basically runs straight ahead as Sheppard decides to run with him but, as mentioned, he turns the wrong way before the end zone and is way out of position.

Collins gets caught staring into the backfield too long causing him to not get deep enough with his drop as the ball sails over his head into the end zone. Snead sees that shallow drop as well and raises his hand to Brees to throw it.

Thompson is also late reacting as well as he is watching the receiver to the right.

Bottom of line is Snead got behind 3 guys on the Defense and nobody was protecting the end zone.

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