Among the many times I'm beaten up on this site, the only time I actually care is when it's relation to the Giants. Last year I called Norman the best corner in the league and a whole lot of posters called me an idiot for it. Now I'm fully aware that the formula for full-on devastation on BBI is to not only start a thread tooting your own horn, but to do so utilizing PFF data. But that's what's happening. Josh Norman is the best corner in the NFL, IMO. Denial only makes it worse. At the absolute very least he deserves to be in the conversation, if not leading the pack.
I love that he's this good, because if we were to have the #1 receiver in the NFL (I think we have #2) it would make this rivalry even more fun. As it stands, it's still fucking fantastic.
There were then, and still are great arguments for other cornerbacks. But Norman is indisputably top 3, if not #1.
| Through two games, Redskins CB Josh Norman is the league’s leading cornerback, with a 91.6 overall grade—a higher mark even than his 87.9 from last season. |
Some thoughts on Norman not shadowing the best receivers in the game thus far:
When Norman faced Antonio Brown and Dez Bryant in Weeks 1 and 2, respectively, he kept a clean sheet across the board. The problem people have, though, is that he hasn’t done it enough. Many see tracking a No. 1 receiver as a necessary step to being classified as an elite corner, regardless of the fact that it’s not the cornerback’s decision to make.
Seahawks CB Richard Sherman is arguably the best cornerback in the game right now, but that comes with an asterisk to many because he isn’t asked to follow top receivers; guys like Jets CB Darrelle Revis and Cardinals CB Patrick Peterson are. Seattle believes the defense is better overall when keeping Sherman on one side and leaning coverage away from him to help the other side, allowing the No. 2 corner to have help from safeties buzzing down from bracket coverage, generally reducing the amount of space a great receiver can utilize to beat him. |
More PFF Norman content here. - (
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This is akin to the hoopla over Nnamdi Asomugha when he was a Raider and supposed to be god's gift to the cornerback position. No one threw at him because Me-Lo Hall and the rest of the Raiders secondary was so bad. He went to the Eagles and suddenly he was very ordinary.
I have no idea, but for a little context, Janoris is 4th in the NFL so far... and I'm positive you can't find a single BBIer who has issue with his play through 2 games.
This is akin to the hoopla over Nnamdi Asomugha when he was a Raider and supposed to be god's gift to the cornerback position. No one threw at him because Me-Lo Hall and the rest of the Raiders secondary was so bad. He went to the Eagles and suddenly he was very ordinary.
Nnamdi was God's gift, but he faded very quickly after two stellar seasons. It's certainly possible Norman will do the same, but I'm not claiming he's going to the Hall or that he's going to go down as one of the greats. I'm saying right now, there's no one better at covering wideouts... and it's a stance that, for some reason, is considered odd here.
And when that #1 is running rampant and we can't stop him, that #2 will just be sitting there, blanketed by Norman and watching him score touchdowns.
Look at that coverage!
thank you. why are there 3 threads on this dooshbag? who gives a fuck? He's famous because the Giants best player was too immature to be satisfied simply to do his job and torch the asshole and help win a game. Let's hope he's learned his lesson and just catches the damn ball. And if he hasn't that McAdoo will chain his ass to the bench until he grows up.
I don't know enough about how Washington is using Norman to assess whether he is truly refuting the criticism from last year: that he's basically a "system corner" who was great in the role he played in Carolina, but lacks scheme-versatility.
Anyway, the Skins have only played two games (and lost both). Over time, both Redskin corners will probably revert to their respective means somewhat.
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Brown in week1. I hate PFF, but for arguments sake what is Breeland's rating?
I have no idea, but for a little context, Janoris is 4th in the NFL so far... and I'm positive you can't find a single BBIer who has issue with his play through 2 games.
More context. The CBs opposite Jenkins aren't getting lit up like a xmas tree. PFF also has Snacks as a shitty player so far.
And when that #1 is running rampant and we can't stop him, that #2 will just be sitting there, blanketed by Norman and watching him score touchdowns.
Posts like this are just proof that no amount of data, information, or eye tests will change some people's mind. Last year he was dominant in Carolina where he blanketed top receivers plenty of times. Did that season and performance magically disappear after two games? This year the foolish Washington coaching staff that has guided an 0-2 football team chooses to not use him on top players and use their #2, and you hold him accountable for that... but in a parallel argument you'll critique Washington's coaching.
And not sure if you noticed, but Norman is covering Beckham this week. So I guess that makes Beckham not a #1 based on your logic?
What the Hell is the aversion to accepting a fact when it comes to Norman? He's one of the best and maybe the best. It's so peculiar people here (and here only) want to fight this tooth and nail.
I'm not positive on this one, but I'm pretty sure Patrick Peterson and Revis were the only players who had a lower opposing QB's completion percentage when thrown in their directions last year. He was most certainly shut-down.
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Brown in week1. I hate PFF, but for arguments sake what is Breeland's rating?
I have no idea, but for a little context, Janoris is 4th in the NFL so far... and I'm positive you can't find a single BBIer who has issue with his play through 2 games.
so jes nkt as good as your hero because he covered a better plauer in week one?
Which plauer had the harder assignment? Quoting PFF as a definitive source of proof shows a seruois lack of basic football football x and o theory.
Just because the rest of his secondary can't cover, doesn't mean he's shutting his WR down.
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In comment 13134421 figgy2989 said:
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Brown in week1. I hate PFF, but for arguments sake what is Breeland's rating?
I have no idea, but for a little context, Janoris is 4th in the NFL so far... and I'm positive you can't find a single BBIer who has issue with his play through 2 games.
so jes nkt as good as your hero because he covered a better plauer in week one?
Which plauer had the harder assignment? Quoting PFF as a definitive source of proof shows a seruois lack of basic football football x and o theory.
Swing & Miss, and a bad one... because not only did you understand my point, you somehow thought I was making the opposite point.
Forget their PFF rankings. Janoris Jenkins. Has he played well this year? That's rhetorical, because we all know he obviously has.
Now if I told you there was some metric out there that put Jenkins and Norman in the same boat, wouldn't you then consider the idea that the other player is playing very well, too? Now if I told you that same metric, while flawed (like ALL statistics and football evaluation tools) is a respected component of player analysis, so much so that more than 1/2 of NFL teams utilize it, would you then consider, just maybe that Norman is pretty good?
Finally, he's far from my hero. In fact, I've posted on multiple threads this week and last week that he and Dez Bryant are by far my least favorite players in the league. But I also enjoy being impartial, and it can be bang-head-on-desk bad here when it comes to BBIers giving credit where it's due for players on the Skins, Cowboys, and Eagles.
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There's no one better at covering wideouts - so good, we'll use him on the other team's #2, and have the #1 doubled.
And when that #1 is running rampant and we can't stop him, that #2 will just be sitting there, blanketed by Norman and watching him score touchdowns.
Posts like this are just proof that no amount of data, information, or eye tests will change some people's mind. Last year he was dominant in Carolina where he blanketed top receivers plenty of times. Did that season and performance magically disappear after two games? This year the foolish Washington coaching staff that has guided an 0-2 football team chooses to not use him on top players and use their #2, and you hold him accountable for that... but in a parallel argument you'll critique Washington's coaching.
And not sure if you noticed, but Norman is covering Beckham this week. So I guess that makes Beckham not a #1 based on your logic?
What the Hell is the aversion to accepting a fact when it comes to Norman? He's one of the best and maybe the best. It's so peculiar people here (and here only) want to fight this tooth and nail.
I blame myself, for bothering to engage with someone who writes 'you can't accept fact' and then that fact is 'he's one of the best and maybe the best'.
Do me a favor, find a 3rd grader and ask him to lend you his dictionary for a few minutes, and look up fact.
As for him covering Beckham - I can't judge Norman on what he hasn't done with the Skins (cover a #1), I can only judge him on the work to date. So far, about the only thing he has going for him is that nice contact tan he got from being so close to the fire on the other side of the field while Breeland got roasted.
Norman is extremely athletic and reads QBs well. I can't post the gif right now, but someone find the one where he, body all contorted, at the last second deflects the ball thrown to Vincent Jackson.
No one's saying he's Darrell Green, but it's fairly obvious some are loathe to admit that he's a really good corner merely because he was a big meanie to Beckham. Would definitely prefer he had stayed outside the NFC East.
Do me a favor, find a 3rd grader and ask him to lend you his dictionary for a few minutes, and look up fact.
Norman is a top 3 corner in the NFL. That is a fact. I'm sure you enjoyed indulging yourself with self-gratification by pointing out the obtuse and useless tidbit that, technically, "any opinion inherently can not be a fact," completely detracting from any reasonable discussion on Josh Norman. Because why wouldn't you turn to such a semantics-driven, totally irrelevant distraction? There is literally no logical or intelligent counter-argument at this point.
So a pat on the back for you, Sir.
Norman is extremely athletic and reads QBs well. I can't post the gif right now, but someone find the one where he, body all contorted, at the last second deflects the ball thrown to Vincent Jackson.
No one's saying he's Darrell Green, but it's fairly obvious some are loathe to admit that he's a really good corner merely because he was a big meanie to Beckham. Would definitely prefer he had stayed outside the NFC East.
Good corner - fine.
Good corner worth what Washington paid him? Unlikely.
Best in the NFL? C'mon.
It's not because he engaged Beckham - if Beckham hadn't lost his shit, he would have burnt Norman alive. Norman's saving grace was playing behind the front 7 of Carolina, which would make just about any CB look good.
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I blame myself, for bothering to engage with someone who writes 'you can't accept fact' and then that fact is 'he's one of the best and maybe the best'.
Do me a favor, find a 3rd grader and ask him to lend you his dictionary for a few minutes, and look up fact.
Norman is a top 3 corner in the NFL. That is a fact. I'm sure you enjoyed indulging yourself with self-gratification by pointing out the obtuse and useless tidbit that, technically, "any opinion inherently can not be a fact," completely detracting from any reasonable discussion on Josh Norman. Because why wouldn't you turn to such a semantics-driven, totally irrelevant distraction? There is literally no logical or intelligent counter-argument at this point.
So a pat on the back for you, Sir.
That's a lot of words for you to just admit you don't know the meaning of the word fact. If I were you, I'd start saving up for my next trip to the Israeli PC shop, you're going to need a new keyboard soon enough if you keep typing like that.
Not shitty exactly, but low-scoring, yes. The combination of a relatively low snap count and no contribution to the pass rush pretty much ensure that his numbers will be lacklustre.
Here's the basic issue: Snacks is unbelievably good at one thing - so good that opponents don't give him many opportunities to do it. That's a key part of his contribution: he dictates to the offense by making it almost impossible to do something they would probably like to do: run between the tackles. So they will throw a lot when he's on the field, forcing him to spend much of his time doing something at which he pretty much sucks: rushing the passer. PFF doesn't give him points for relegating large sections of the opponent's playbook to the scrapheap. Instead, it has to ding him for standing uselessly at the line of scrimmage on pass plays.
That's 2-for-2. Another pat on the back. But just a suggestion... instead of turning to childish distractions from Josh Norman how about try, I don't know, presenting a counter argument for a corner who in your eyes is distinctly better than him.
Your call, big man.
You'll figure it out on Sunday when he supposedly will shadow Beckham.
he also had the help of 2 of the best cover linebackers playing underneath...
this year jenkins has followed the best receiver, he shut down dez bryant in the first game, norman on the other hand let breeland get torched rather than saying ill follow him...
norman is not the best corner in the league, let him go 1 on 1 with a wr all game and then i will consider him the beat corner..
to be the best cornr you got to do what revis did
My guess is they were probably working on their defense throughout minicamps, camp, and preseason, thought they had a good philosophy in mind. After failing week 1, they figured they'd try one more time week 2... Didn't work out.
So they've adjusted this week, as all the reports have stated He's covering OBJ.
You'll figure it out on Sunday when he supposedly will shadow Beckham.
Does that mean PFF (a tool utilized by >half the team in the NFL) doesn't know what they're watching? Since they just rated him the best corner in the NFL? Again, what piece of data will actually show you and other people on BBI, who soo unbelievably clearly can't put aside biases and love of Giants/Beckham that Norman is exceptionally skilled at his craft.
You were one of the posters I referenced in my OP. As expected, and as usual, you just aren't able to admit when you're wrong, even if data is literally posted right in front of your eyes.
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PFF also has Snacks as a shitty player so far.
Not shitty exactly, but low-scoring, yes. The combination of a relatively low snap count and no contribution to the pass rush pretty much ensure that his numbers will be lacklustre.
Here's the basic issue: Snacks is unbelievably good at one thing - so good that opponents don't give him many opportunities to do it. That's a key part of his contribution: he dictates to the offense by making it almost impossible to do something they would probably like to do: run between the tackles. So they will throw a lot when he's on the field, forcing him to spend much of his time doing something at which he pretty much sucks: rushing the passer. PFF doesn't give him points for relegating large sections of the opponent's playbook to the scrapheap. Instead, it has to ding him for standing uselessly at the line of scrimmage on pass plays.
I was under the impression (possibly false) that PFF's new grades aren't dependent on snap count like their old +/- system. That said, I haven't really looked into how their new grades are computed.
And I disagree that Snacks stands uselessly at the LOS on pass plays. He may not get the QB hits/sacks (he did have a hurry nullified by a holding against Dallas), but he does help collapse the pocket and at least makes it uncomfortable for QBs to step up (unlike a guy like Kuhn who even got pushed back on pass plays).
DRC is very good. I'd certainly be willing to hear your argument. Do you actualy have one? Or just stating it without any proof?
-- if so -- how can you stand on PFF as proof of anything?
I think Beckham is going to be just OK this week, but that's less about Norman, really. Thankfully the Giants have a ton of weapons that will overmatch the rest of Washington's secondary. I'm expecting similarly good, but unspectacular stat lines from our big 3. Collectively, it will be a lot of successful pass offense.
-- if so -- how can you stand on PFF as proof of anything?
I haven't mentioned Snacks once. If you're referring to the fact that I said PFF is flawed, like all statistics in sports, then sure... of course it's not the end all, be all. But it also is useful, and perhaps one of the most useful measurements of success/talent. I don't care to prop up PFF. I care when biased posters pummel PFF when their data doesn't support a biased narrative. That's all that's happening here.
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Fekker proving once again that he has no idea what he is watching on Sundays.
You'll figure it out on Sunday when he supposedly will shadow Beckham.
Does that mean PFF (a tool utilized by >half the team in the NFL) doesn't know what they're watching? Since they just rated him the best corner in the NFL? Again, what piece of data will actually show you and other people on BBI, who soo unbelievably clearly can't put aside biases and love of Giants/Beckham that Norman is exceptionally skilled at his craft.
You were one of the posters I referenced in my OP. As expected, and as usual, you just aren't able to admit when you're wrong, even if data is literally posted right in front of your eyes.
Do you have any proof of this (repeated) claim? And proof that they use these 'grades', not just PFF for things like snap counts.
This is the same system that told you Dak Prescott was better than Eli in Week 1 except that anyone who actually watches and understands the game of football knew better.
Josh Norman is a good CB who benefited exponentially from an excellent front 7 and the type of defense he played in. This same player was made a fool of by Ramses Barden and benched only a few short years prior.
The Panthers had no interest in keeping him and felt he was totally replaceable. If he was anywhere near as good as you seem to think he is, that probably wouldn't have been the case. Gettleman didn't want him back.
Not quite shutdown level in the aggregate, but very good. Beckham certainly has the skills to go 100+ and I obviously hope he does, but those acting like its a given he's gonna torch Norman are Panglossian.
Uber athletic corners are IMV the most impressive players in the game. DRC, Patrick Peterson or prime Sanders. Norman is a douche and I hate him as a division rival, but he's fun to watch.
Remember, the battles and smack between Erich Barnes and Bobby Mitchell?
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the OP just admitted that PFF is flawed when it comes to measuring Snacks
-- if so -- how can you stand on PFF as proof of anything?
I haven't mentioned Snacks once. If you're referring to the fact that I said PFF is flawed, like all statistics in sports, then sure... of course it's not the end all, be all. But it also is useful, and perhaps one of the most useful measurements of success/talent. I don't care to prop up PFF. I care when biased posters pummel PFF when their data doesn't support a biased narrative. That's all that's happening here.
yet you are waiving around PFF as your proof of what you are saying -- and -- even affirmatively stating it's fact because of it -- get a grip dude -- it's your opinion - and it is not fact -- and you don't have supporting facts -- you have a deeply flawed stat measurer that arbitrarily assigns the value of its measurements
-- and I'm not even bothering to regurgitate your Snacks comments above -- if you are denying what you said about Snacks -- then you are just a frikken moron -- moronically and drunkenly swinging and wanting to be bashed
That was my impression, but MiLB keeps claiming teams rely on these grades. I thought the teams used PFF for snap counts, formation tendencies and other simple stuff like that.
Do you have any proof of this (repeated) claim? And proof that they use these 'grades', not just PFF for things like snap counts.
I did a quick Google search. Couldn't find the article I read recently that said it was more than 1/2, but this is as of January, 2015 (almost 20 months ago)
Sports Illustrated - ( New Window )
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In comment 13134575 gidiefor said:
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the OP just admitted that PFF is flawed when it comes to measuring Snacks
-- if so -- how can you stand on PFF as proof of anything?
I haven't mentioned Snacks once. If you're referring to the fact that I said PFF is flawed, like all statistics in sports, then sure... of course it's not the end all, be all. But it also is useful, and perhaps one of the most useful measurements of success/talent. I don't care to prop up PFF. I care when biased posters pummel PFF when their data doesn't support a biased narrative. That's all that's happening here.
yet you are waiving around PFF as your proof of what you are saying -- and -- even affirmatively stating it's fact because of it -- get a grip dude -- it's your opinion - and it is not fact -- and you don't have supporting facts -- you have a deeply flawed stat measurer that arbitrarily assigns the value of its measurements
-- and I'm not even bothering to regurgitate your Snacks comments above -- if you are denying what you said about Snacks -- then you are just a frikken moron -- moronically and drunkenly swinging and wanting to be bashed
What the Hell are you talking about? Where did I say anything about Snacks? On this thread? Another one?
DRC isn't even the best CB on the Giants!
21 days till puck drop. It's all I have :)
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Do you have any proof of this (repeated) claim? And proof that they use these 'grades', not just PFF for things like snap counts.
I did a quick Google search. Couldn't find the article I read recently that said it was more than 1/2, but this is as of January, 2015 (almost 20 months ago)
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Neil Hornsby isn’t doing this solely as a labor of love, though that’s precisely how his business, Pro Football Focus, began nine years ago in Luton, England, some 30 miles north of London. Living stateside since October, he now counts 13 NFL teams—40% of the league—as clients, including seven teams from this season’s playoff field. He also oversees a staff of roughly 80 full- and part-time employees who watch countless hours of game footage from their home offices in California, Northern Ireland and seemingly everywhere in between.
Sports Illustrated - ( New Window )
PFF is giving teams data they are requesting. Doesn't say anything about teams using PFF's grades as part of that data.
I stand by my assessment that you deserve a puck in the mouth - and that you are plain and simple asking for it -- and that you have no facts to back anything up if you are citing PFF as fact
How about this one? Pretty basic #
What else do we wanna use?
Again, he's great at what he does, but they don't ask him to do what the great CB's do. Mostly because he can't.
Really? Sorta seems like you... didn't read right... and now you're back tracking
These are your words.
Anything else?
That's fine. Just be a grown-up and admit you read it wrong. You can still call me an idiot for my stance on Norman, but at least have enough dignity to admit you started your argument on a false-pretense and thought I posted something that I didn't. It's okay.
To separate Norman from his scheme, extensive analysis is required. I used the Pre-Snap Reads Analysis Method to go through all 19 games that he played last year. The method is explained in greater detail here, but it essentially looks at every single play a cornerback plays and tracks whether he successfully carried out his assignment or not. It only includes plays where the cornerback and receiver were in fair one-on-one situations. Despite playing 19 games last year, Norman only had 253 qualifying plays. Darrelle Revis had 375 when he played 19 games in 2014. Revis and Richard Sherman have consistently been the best performers in these analyses over the years. Their success rates have hovered around 81 percent for the most part. Any rate over 80 percent is very impressive, while quality starters primarily stay above 75 percent.
Norman finished with a 69.96 percent success rate in 2015. As a one-on-one defender, Norman is below average. He shouldn't be asked to play man coverage in space on a regular basis. When he does play man coverage, he is typically at his best bailing away from the line of scrimmage at the snap. This is because he can't jam receivers in press at the line of scrimmage.
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Josh Norman isn't even the best CB in the division. DRC is.
DRC isn't even the best CB on the Giants!
I think he is but Jackrabbit has been outstanding and I can see making the argument that he's been the best CB on the Giants so far this year. I think they're both better than Norman.
That's the other thing.. 2 games have been played so far. Two. And Fekker is acting like 5 passes defended are part of some major sample. It's so ridiculous.
Now, I know Norman routinely challenged premier receivers -- including the likes of Dez Bryant, Odell Beckham Jr. and Julio Jones -- at the line of scrimmage in recent years, but there are plenty of instances on tape where his lack of elite speed and burst could've resulted in big plays down the field (see: Beckham's drop against Norman in the first quarter of their rowdy matchup last season). In fact, I had an AFC North personnel director suggest that Norman could get "exposed" if he had to match up with a premier WR1 and shadow him for four quarters of coverage.
While I have the utmost respect for Norman's playmaking ability as a zone corner, I don't believe his skills are conducive to playing the role of a CB1 in every system. With a move to the NFC East and intriguing matchups dotting the schedule, the football world might soon see if Norman is the lockdown corner he claims to be.
Link - ( New Window )
To separate Norman from his scheme, extensive analysis is required. I used the Pre-Snap Reads Analysis Method to go through all 19 games that he played last year. The method is explained in greater detail here, but it essentially looks at every single play a cornerback plays and tracks whether he successfully carried out his assignment or not. It only includes plays where the cornerback and receiver were in fair one-on-one situations. Despite playing 19 games last year, Norman only had 253 qualifying plays. Darrelle Revis had 375 when he played 19 games in 2014. Revis and Richard Sherman have consistently been the best performers in these analyses over the years. Their success rates have hovered around 81 percent for the most part. Any rate over 80 percent is very impressive, while quality starters primarily stay above 75 percent.
Norman finished with a 69.96 percent success rate in 2015. As a one-on-one defender, Norman is below average. He shouldn't be asked to play man coverage in space on a regular basis. When he does play man coverage, he is typically at his best bailing away from the line of scrimmage at the snap. This is because he can't jam receivers in press at the line of scrimmage. Link - ( New Window )
Game. Set. Match.
Steelers didn't throw at Breland because he was a hack. On the first TD, Norman's guy was open by several yards. Ben threw to Brown but Breland had better coverage than Norman on the play. Coates was WIDE open on Norman. How is that factored into the PFF grade? It isn't.
His time is coming. And please save this thread for a good laugh by year end.
Norman is not the best CB. Not close. He's a good player. Physical and good with his hands. But he can't run with elite WR. We will see it this week if they are dumb enough to match him up with Beckham with no help.
Given what else went on in that game, I'm not sure torched is the right word, but Beckham and then Jones a week later were the "worst" 2 games Norman had last season.
Don't want to make it sound like I'm Team Norman because I hope he gets embarrassed on Sunday on the Giants' way to 3-0, but I do think he's a really good player. He makes some insanely athletic plays.
Just a reasonable counter-argument. Rare around these blue-tinted parts.
Fair opinion to have, Jenkins is certainly an ascending talent who is just coming into his own. So far, he looks like he's going to be worth every penny. I love the way he plays.
VenteSette : 1:58 pm : link : reply
don't want to give Norman any credit, but what about Washington's coaching staff? It seems that the Giants passing game is more balanced than Dallas. I think it would have made more sense to have him shut down Dez and let Beasley try to beat them than having him chase Beckham around while Cruz and Shephard are out there.
The WAS coaches had him all summer and felt he wasn't good enough to bump Breland from his assignments.
CAR coaches felt he wasn't good enough for the franchise.
But PFF? They have the inside info with their grade? OK.
WAS overpaid for a player who simply isn't worth it. Nothing more to say. We'll see it on the field very soon.
Certainly not, nor did I say it was, but I know you know that.
This was the exchange
Dave: You can't only go by PFF.
Mike: OK, how about this?
Dave: You can't only go by passes defended.
It was just an additional statistic which you stated I needed, then quickly forgot you did that, I guess.
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I like them
That's fine. Just be a grown-up and admit you read it wrong. You can still call me an idiot for my stance on Norman, but at least have enough dignity to admit you started your argument on a false-pretense and thought I posted something that I didn't. It's okay.
son -- you don't know what a grown up is
Norman didnt cover OBJ last year for a damn. He struggled with Julio as well. He is a good corner who exclled because his whole defense excelled.
And sorry pass defended? Horrible stat. Ronald Darby is still chasing Decker and Marshall all over the field.
DRC isn't even the best CB on his team right now and played significantly less snaps than Apple, a rookie.
It's only a matter of time. If he shadows Beckham, I'm confident the fall of Josh Norman starts this week.
It's only a matter of time. If he shadows Beckham, I'm confident the fall of Josh Norman starts this week.
Yeah I didnt watch much of him in the Pitt game. So ii'll take your word for it. Like I said before he couldnt cover OBJ last year. He was jsut successful getting into his head. If OBJ keeps his demeanor of just kicking his ass.... Eli is going for 400 this game.
Because they've been toasting Breeland. Why change what's working?
Reminds me of when I used to try and piss people off around here except I honestly don't think Mike is doing it on purpose
Not BBI. Just Fekker.
OK. Giants defense isn't good. Collins hasn't improved. Shepherd is nothing. Etc.
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not only playing his best football, but he's the best in the league. Wow. BBI never disappoints.
Not BBI. Just Fekker.
I literally copy & pasted the headline from the article. Not my words.
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not only playing his best football, but he's the best in the league. Wow. BBI never disappoints.
OK. Giants defense isn't good. Collins hasn't improved. Shepherd is nothing. Etc.
Link?
Reminds me of when I used to try and piss people off around here except I honestly don't think Mike is doing it on purpose
Giants... again, I encourage you to actually read the exchange before commenting. It took me till post 7,307,501 to post the "passes defended" stat. I was asked by Dave to provide an additional measurement because PFF wasn't good enough. So I literally went to the first measurable I could find and he was at the top of the list. So I posted it.
I know you know that I know passes defended in 2 games means next to nothing. I was simply adding more detail. Obviously my OP was the crux of my point.
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while tied with 4 others players to pad your argument is laugh out loud funny.
Reminds me of when I used to try and piss people off around here except I honestly don't think Mike is doing it on purpose
Giants... again, I encourage you to actually read the exchange before commenting. It took me till post 7,307,501 to post the "passes defended" stat. I was asked by Dave to provide an additional measurement because PFF wasn't good enough. So I literally went to the first measurable I could find and he was at the top of the list. So I posted it.
I know you know that I know passes defended in 2 games means next to nothing. I was simply adding more detail. Obviously my OP was the crux of my point.
Gotcha, Mike. I just found the vagueness of the stat funny. Granted, I only skimmed the entirety of the thread. Anyway. PFF doesn't take common sense and what your eyes actually tell you into consideration. It's the equivalent of looking at a box score and using it to determine who played well and who didn't.
It's admittedly only partially about Norman. There's only so many times I can read that someone "sucks" when they're in fact awesome. There needs to be some sort of counter to the biased talk on this guy here. I don't get why one can't be a Giant fan and still acknowledge talent. I can't count how many times Tony Romo, DeSean Jackson, Dez, McNabb, and countless others have been trashed. I get hating them, but denying they're good? Bizarre. With Norman it's been so over the top. Everyone is looking for an excuse to prove he's average, but if he were, then what fun would it be when Beckham owns him this weekend?
Hahaha, definitely didn't see that coming. Thank you.
What sucks is when Beckham lights him up this week I'm gonna look like an asshole. But what else is new, I guess.
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What purpose does this serve on a Giants forum? I just don't get it.
It's admittedly only partially about Norman. There's only so many times I can read that someone "sucks" when they're in fact awesome. There needs to be some sort of counter to the biased talk on this guy here. I don't get why one can't be a Giant fan and still acknowledge talent. I can't count how many times Tony Romo, DeSean Jackson, Dez, McNabb, and countless others have been trashed. I get hating them, but denying they're good? Bizarre. With Norman it's been so over the top. Everyone is looking for an excuse to prove he's average, but if he were, then what fun would it be when Beckham owns him this weekend?
That has to be the craziest shit I've heard in a long time. So in essence you want to build Norman up ( and in the process piss off many) just to hope that Odell kills him and prove Odell is great? Wow what a really long freaking journey that is for a not so much return. By the way I don't believe that's your intention at all. I believe you are just some dude who woke up this morning and was bored to hell and thought this was a good way to kill time.
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In comment 13134742 map7711 said:
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What purpose does this serve on a Giants forum? I just don't get it.
It's admittedly only partially about Norman. There's only so many times I can read that someone "sucks" when they're in fact awesome. There needs to be some sort of counter to the biased talk on this guy here. I don't get why one can't be a Giant fan and still acknowledge talent. I can't count how many times Tony Romo, DeSean Jackson, Dez, McNabb, and countless others have been trashed. I get hating them, but denying they're good? Bizarre. With Norman it's been so over the top. Everyone is looking for an excuse to prove he's average, but if he were, then what fun would it be when Beckham owns him this weekend?
That has to be the craziest shit I've heard in a long time. So in essence you want to build Norman up ( and in the process piss off many) just to hope that Odell kills him and prove Odell is great? Wow what a really long freaking journey that is for a not so much return. By the way I don't believe that's your intention at all. I believe you are just some dude who woke up this morning and was bored to hell and thought this was a good way to kill time.
Why can't it also be my attention along with me looking for a way to kill time? But fortunately I don't even have to defend myself on this one as the same posters I'm exchanging with now I also exchanged with then. So they certainly know my opinions and intentions, even if they disagree with them.
And a long journey? It's a football message board thread. Settle down, Francis. If stating Josh Norman is excellent pisses people off, that's OK with me.
Right, so I guess the rest of the league was wrong about DRC when he hit free agency? Cmon, look at the contracts the two players have. Norman is clearly better than DRC.
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I'm not surprised that Giants fans
VenteSette : 1:58 pm : link : reply
don't want to give Norman any credit, but what about Washington's coaching staff? It seems that the Giants passing game is more balanced than Dallas. I think it would have made more sense to have him shut down Dez and let Beasley try to beat them than having him chase Beckham around while Cruz and Shephard are out there.
The WAS coaches had him all summer and felt he wasn't good enough to bump Breland from his assignments.
CAR coaches felt he wasn't good enough for the franchise.
But PFF? They have the inside info with their grade? OK.
WAS overpaid for a player who simply isn't worth it. Nothing more to say. We'll see it on the field very soon.
Didnt the Giants potentially do that with Vernon too? Jenkins? Snacks? Or are we all basing are opinions on all four players after two fucking games?
Every team overpays in FA. You can be overpaid and still be a top 5 player at your position.
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Josh Norman isn't even the best CB in the division. DRC is.
Right, so I guess the rest of the league was wrong about DRC when he hit free agency? Cmon, look at the contracts the two players have. Norman is clearly better than DRC.
It sucks trying to get an honest discussion going when people just start their argument with the most absurd claims.
How do you discuss anything from that starting point. I love DRC and actually do think he's very underrated, but there's not a pundit or coach or anyone else associated with NFL outside of this board who would take DRC over Norman. It's just absurd.
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In comment 13134792 Mike in Long Beach said:
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In comment 13134742 map7711 said:
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What purpose does this serve on a Giants forum? I just don't get it.
It's admittedly only partially about Norman. There's only so many times I can read that someone "sucks" when they're in fact awesome. There needs to be some sort of counter to the biased talk on this guy here. I don't get why one can't be a Giant fan and still acknowledge talent. I can't count how many times Tony Romo, DeSean Jackson, Dez, McNabb, and countless others have been trashed. I get hating them, but denying they're good? Bizarre. With Norman it's been so over the top. Everyone is looking for an excuse to prove he's average, but if he were, then what fun would it be when Beckham owns him this weekend?
That has to be the craziest shit I've heard in a long time. So in essence you want to build Norman up ( and in the process piss off many) just to hope that Odell kills him and prove Odell is great? Wow what a really long freaking journey that is for a not so much return. By the way I don't believe that's your intention at all. I believe you are just some dude who woke up this morning and was bored to hell and thought this was a good way to kill time.
Why can't it also be my attention along with me looking for a way to kill time? But fortunately I don't even have to defend myself on this one as the same posters I'm exchanging with now I also exchanged with then. So they certainly know my opinions and intentions, even if they disagree with them.
And a long journey? It's a football message board thread. Settle down, Francis. If stating Josh Norman is excellent pisses people off, that's OK with me.
You are the very definition of passive aggressive.
Slip O' the Lip.
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In comment 13134555 arcarsenal said:
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Josh Norman isn't even the best CB in the division. DRC is.
Right, so I guess the rest of the league was wrong about DRC when he hit free agency? Cmon, look at the contracts the two players have. Norman is clearly better than DRC.
It sucks trying to get an honest discussion going when people just start their argument with the most absurd claims.
How do you discuss anything from that starting point. I love DRC and actually do think he's very underrated, but there's not a pundit or coach or anyone else associated with NFL outside of this board who would take DRC over Norman. It's just absurd.
Care to justify that statement, or is it only opinion?
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Josh Norman isn't even the best CB in the division. DRC is.
Right, so I guess the rest of the league was wrong about DRC when he hit free agency? Cmon, look at the contracts the two players have. Norman is clearly better than DRC.
Are you new to the NFL? By your logic, Tavon Auston is better than Brandon Marshall because he makes more money.
Norman is not "clearly" better than DRC and if your only metric to go by is the contract he was given by the Redskins (because we all know they've never overpaid for anyone before...) then you're not paying attention.
Why didn't Carolina want Norman back? They literally had no issue whatsoever letting him walk away.
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In comment 13134555 arcarsenal said:
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Josh Norman isn't even the best CB in the division. DRC is.
Right, so I guess the rest of the league was wrong about DRC when he hit free agency? Cmon, look at the contracts the two players have. Norman is clearly better than DRC.
It sucks trying to get an honest discussion going when people just start their argument with the most absurd claims.
How do you discuss anything from that starting point. I love DRC and actually do think he's very underrated, but there's not a pundit or coach or anyone else associated with NFL outside of this board who would take DRC over Norman. It's just absurd.
LOL, yes.. I am the one making the absurd claim. Not you who is calling PFF grades "facts"..
Can you prove that there's "not a pundit or coach or anyone else associated with the NFL" who would take DRC over Norman? Of course you can't.. but I'm the one who's making absurd claims.
Your lack of self-awareness is truly astonishing.
Norman is a good corner. He sure as hell isn't the best one in the league. Go watch some Cardinals games and tell me he's better than their top CB. He's not. His man coverage skills aren't good enough for him to deserve this rep. You'll realize it on Sunday when he tries to cover Beckham and gets roasted just like he did last year.
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He torched Norman last year. The only reason he was under 100 yards was because he dropped a sure TD on a play when he ran by Norman as if he were standing still.
Given what else went on in that game, I'm not sure torched is the right word, but Beckham and then Jones a week later were the "worst" 2 games Norman had last season.
Don't want to make it sound like I'm Team Norman because I hope he gets embarrassed on Sunday on the Giants' way to 3-0, but I do think he's a really good player. He makes some insanely athletic plays.
He barely covered Beckham and I'm sure he was rarely on Jones too. Can't give him credit if he's not covering guys, and in Carolina,mhe stayed on one side most of the time
yes indeedy !
Can you prove that there's "not a pundit or coach or anyone else associated with the NFL" who would take DRC over Norman? Of course you can't.. but I'm the one who's making absurd claims.
Your lack of self-awareness is truly astonishing.
Norman is a good corner. He sure as hell isn't the best one in the league. Go watch some Cardinals games and tell me he's better than their top CB. He's not. His man coverage skills aren't good enough for him to deserve this rep. You'll realize it on Sunday when he tries to cover Beckham and gets roasted just like he did last year.
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If you're taking DRC over Norman, simply put, you aren't worth discussing football with. It's an idiotic thought.
PFF isn't nonsense and Norman isn't some system made JAG. But PFF grades still have like a 70% accuracy in my eyes and that's for an entire seasons worth of data. We're talking about 2 games here, April baseball stats are always taken with a grain of salt and baseball stats are a lot better than football grades. Norman has had 7 passes thrown in his direction I believe.
I like the fact that you made this "lose-lose" thread because i do think it's noteworthy that he's grades so highly despite being trashed by the public for not taking on the Antonio Brown challenge and only switching to Dez late.
But 2 games and PFF doesn't mean much. I think he's susceptible to being beaten over the top. Odell did it to him last year and DeSean was doing it in practice often according to the reports. Can't wait to see it.
Can you prove that there's "not a pundit or coach or anyone else associated with the NFL" who would take DRC over Norman? Of course you can't.. but I'm the one who's making absurd claims.
Your lack of self-awareness is truly astonishing.
Norman is a good corner. He sure as hell isn't the best one in the league. Go watch some Cardinals games and tell me he's better than their top CB. He's not. His man coverage skills aren't good enough for him to deserve this rep. You'll realize it on Sunday when he tries to cover Beckham and gets roasted just like he did last year.
[/quote[
If you're taking DRC over Norman, simply put, you aren't worth discussing football with. It's an idiotic thought.
I'd love to hear you elaborate on why it's an "idiotic" thought.
Because PFF told you it is?
Josh Norman doesn't do the things that elite CB's do. You literally came here today and said "PFF says Norman is the best corner in the NFL so he is"
Doesn't mean I think he's a bad player, doesn't mean he sucks. If you're running the type of system Carolina or Washington runs, he's a good fit in those systems. To me, if you're not locking players down 1 on 1 and can't run with the best WR's in the game, you don't deserve to be called the best CB in the game nor do you belong in the conversation.
A guy who has spent most of his time dropping into a Cover 3 doesn't deserve the rep people like you give him.
I've seen DRC man up on top tier WR's and shut them down. Is he still in his prime? Maybe not. But he's an elite athlete with legit coverage ability. He's not a system guy. He thrived in Denver as a cover corner, he's also done it here. He was miscast in Philly.
I can't say I've ever seen Josh Norman lock up man to man on a top tier WR for 4 quarters and hold him down. Have you? He brags about the stat lines he "held" guys like Jones and Hopkins to but he was only covering them when they were running routes in his area.
If the Redskins are going to shift their approach and let him shadow Beckham on Sunday I can promise you it won't be pretty for him and you'll see exactly what I mean. His only saving grace might be the fact that Breeland sucks so much that Shepard will probably have a field day against him.
and another against Hilton
You guys can hate him all you want,but he's a good player.
Looking at the bigger picture, he conveniently forgot that the Giants gave Carolina all they could handle while DC got violated by the same team. Vi. O. La. Ted.
This game can't get here quick enough. I may need to take a four-day weekend and pop enough ambien to wake up at kickoff.
You're not engaging it because you can't come up with anything to counter on your own. You're ridiculously transparent and getting hung up on something that isn't even vital to the conversation.
You think he's the best CB in the league because PFF says so. Forget DRC, Mike.. explain to me what sets Josh Norman apart from Patrick Peterson or why he's better than Chris Harris Jr or Richard Sherman. In your words, tell me what he does better.
Can you prove that there's "not a pundit or coach or anyone else associated with the NFL" who would take DRC over Norman? Of course you can't.. but I'm the one who's making absurd claims.
Your lack of self-awareness is truly astonishing.
Norman is a good corner. He sure as hell isn't the best one in the league. Go watch some Cardinals games and tell me he's better than their top CB. He's not. His man coverage skills aren't good enough for him to deserve this rep. You'll realize it on Sunday when he tries to cover Beckham and gets roasted just like he did last year.
[/quote[
If you're taking DRC over Norman, simply put, you aren't worth discussing football with. It's an idiotic thought.
The reason why people dismiss your dumb ass posts and you as a poster is because you make flippant, antagonistic, irresponsible statements like this. All the while quoting a rag like PFF.
Your original post is such a "look at me" piece of shit attempt at trying to gain empathy for your dumb ass comments, it just furthered the cause that Mike in Long Beach is a punk and a schmuck.
Nice work Mike.
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As long as it frees up VC and SS AND CO., i can live with that
thank you. why are there 3 threads on this dooshbag? who gives a fuck? He's famous because the Giants best player was too immature to be satisfied simply to do his job and torch the asshole and help win a game.
To be fair, I remember back here on BBI when Richard Sherman taunted Tom Brady post game people literally asking "WTF is Richard Sherman?".
Between that and the Crabtree incident in the NFC Championship game a year later, a decent percentage of a top CB's hype is the trash talk they bring. If Sherman never did those two things he'd still be good, but the perception wouldn't be quite as good.
Unfortunately the Beckham incident has made Giants' fans not as objective in their view of him just like Niner fans and Richard Sherman. It's just reality.
Both CBs play one side, both have great supporting personnel and coaching. A lot of similarities there. Carolina might have had a better front 7 than the Seahawks but their secondary was never quite as good as the Earl Thomas/Kam Chancellor combo (combined with Pete Carroll's cover 3 scheme). In critical pass rushing situations, the Michael Bennett/Cliff Avril combo was probably better than Greg Hardy and their other DE.
Sherman always got benefit of the doubt while Norman hasn't.
Another thing Norman has going over Sherman was that he was never accused of the subtle illegal contact the Seahawks had gotten away with years ago and might still be doing now.
Joe Haden never had anywhere near the level of support of these other guys in Cleveland, so maybe people should be talking him up as the best CB in the game right now.
Really a silly thing to get worked up on, because the issue of whether a CB is shutdown or not doesn't change a whole lot in the grand scheme of how good a defense really is.
Why did Carolina show little effort in retaining his services? They thought he was good, but certainly not worth the price tag. They had the space to at least retain him for the money earmarked for the franchise tag. They let him go without wanting any compensation.
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I'm not even engaging in this. It's downright absurd. If any non-Giant fan stumbled upon this place and saw people saying DRC is better the would get quite a laugh.
Why did Carolina show little effort in retaining his services? They thought he was good, but certainly not worth the price tag. They had the space to at least retain him for the money earmarked for the franchise tag. They let him go without wanting any compensation.
Engaging the kid in real discourse is an exercise in futility. He probably still has a subscription to MAXIM.
To enact such hypocrisy, contradictory logic, and brute stupidity upon a group of people with such ferocity and indignation is actually a kind of accomplishment.
Mike, you said Norman was good before PFF did. You called it! You're such a fucking hipster genius, I'm in awe. Thank you for correcting all us wee BBIers in our ignorance of your greatness and that of the greatness of the PFF champion of the secondary: Josh Norman. Can we proceed with not being pretentious little fucks now, who nitpick and self-congratulate every other post?
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In comment 13135121 Mike in Long Beach said:
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I'm not even engaging in this. It's downright absurd. If any non-Giant fan stumbled upon this place and saw people saying DRC is better the would get quite a laugh.
Why did Carolina show little effort in retaining his services? They thought he was good, but certainly not worth the price tag. They had the space to at least retain him for the money earmarked for the franchise tag. They let him go without wanting any compensation.
Engaging the kid in real discourse is an exercise in futility. He probably still has a subscription to MAXIM.
LMAO
Unfortunately the Beckham incident has made Giants' fans not as objective in their view of him just like Niner fans and Richard Sherman. It's just reality.
Both CBs play one side, both have great supporting personnel and coaching. A lot of similarities there. Carolina might have had a better front 7 than the Seahawks but their secondary was never quite as good as the Earl Thomas/Kam Chancellor combo (combined with Pete Carroll's cover 3 scheme). In critical pass rushing situations, the Michael Bennett/Cliff Avril combo was probably better than Greg Hardy and their other DE.
Sherman always got benefit of the doubt while Norman hasn't.
Another thing Norman has going over Sherman was that he was never accused of the subtle illegal contact the Seahawks had gotten away with years ago and might still be doing now.
Joe Haden never had anywhere near the level of support of these other guys in Cleveland, so maybe people should be talking him up as the best CB in the game right now.
Really a silly thing to get worked up on, because the issue of whether a CB is shutdown or not doesn't change a whole lot in the grand scheme of how good a defense really is.
Interesting question about the better front 7, CAR vs. SEA. At first I thpught SEA hands down, but Carolina had the better DT in Lotulelei. Still, Mebane was not much of a drop off. While I still think the Hawks with Irvin as SAM was the better unit, the Panthers are right behind them with Thompson there.
At the end of the day, I think both Norman and Sherman are very overrated...and ODB owned both of them despite being the number one focus of the offense.
And as for Fast Eddie's fuck-up, I absolutely think DRC, Revis (although this year that might not be the case), and Aquib Talib are better than either Sherman or Norman. Joe Haden too.
To enact such hypocrisy, contradictory logic, and brute stupidity upon a group of people with such ferocity and indignation is actually a kind of accomplishment.
Mike, you said Norman was good before PFF did. You called it! You're such a fucking hipster genius, I'm in awe. Thank you for correcting all us wee BBIers in our ignorance of your greatness and that of the greatness of the PFF champion of the secondary: Josh Norman. Can we proceed with not being pretentious little fucks now, who nitpick and self-congratulate every other post?
Winner for post with the most nouns that end with "y" goes to adamg
PS- if you called him a pussy, you would have set the bar a little higher.
😉
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in self-aggrandizing, ex post facto one-upmanship I've ever seen.
To enact such hypocrisy, contradictory logic, and brute stupidity upon a group of people with such ferocity and indignation is actually a kind of accomplishment.
Mike, you said Norman was good before PFF did. You called it! You're such a fucking hipster genius, I'm in awe. Thank you for correcting all us wee BBIers in our ignorance of your greatness and that of the greatness of the PFF champion of the secondary: Josh Norman. Can we proceed with not being pretentious little fucks now, who nitpick and self-congratulate every other post?
Winner for post with the most nouns that end with "y" goes to adamg
PS- if you called him a pussy, you would have set the bar a little higher.
😉
All the time I spent on that and I forget to add 'pussy'...
I hope we get him to cry harder than that. Now that he has Perry Fewell teaching him everything he knows, it's going to be even sweeter to expose this jackass as the loudmouth fucking weasel that he is.
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In comment 13135437 adamg said:
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in self-aggrandizing, ex post facto one-upmanship I've ever seen.
To enact such hypocrisy, contradictory logic, and brute stupidity upon a group of people with such ferocity and indignation is actually a kind of accomplishment.
Mike, you said Norman was good before PFF did. You called it! You're such a fucking hipster genius, I'm in awe. Thank you for correcting all us wee BBIers in our ignorance of your greatness and that of the greatness of the PFF champion of the secondary: Josh Norman. Can we proceed with not being pretentious little fucks now, who nitpick and self-congratulate every other post?
Winner for post with the most nouns that end with "y" goes to adamg
PS- if you called him a pussy, you would have set the bar a little higher.
😉
All the time I spent on that and I forget to add 'pussy'...
Lol.....you need to surrender to the flow.
Be careful with banging your head on your desk; you might knock over your dolls.
Unfortunately the Beckham incident has made Giants' fans not as objective in their view of him just like Niner fans and Richard Sherman. It's just reality.
Both CBs play one side, both have great supporting personnel and coaching. A lot of similarities there. Carolina might have had a better front 7 than the Seahawks but their secondary was never quite as good as the Earl Thomas/Kam Chancellor combo (combined with Pete Carroll's cover 3 scheme). In critical pass rushing situations, the Michael Bennett/Cliff Avril combo was probably better than Greg Hardy and their other DE.
Sherman always got benefit of the doubt while Norman hasn't.
Another thing Norman has going over Sherman was that he was never accused of the subtle illegal contact the Seahawks had gotten away with years ago and might still be doing now.
Joe Haden never had anywhere near the level of support of these other guys in Cleveland, so maybe people should be talking him up as the best CB in the game right now.
Really a silly thing to get worked up on, because the issue of whether a CB is shutdown or not doesn't change a whole lot in the grand scheme of how good a defense really is.
Sherman is a similar corner scheme/responsibility-wise but last year they really had no one on the other side. Cary Williams was there for a chunk of the season and sucked. Sherman was asked to do more and they had him travel and cover top WR's more often and he did a pretty good job. He did cover Antonio Brown unlike Norman and Brown finished that day with 6 catches for just 51 yards.
Norman is going to try to do the same thing this Sunday if you believe what's coming out of DC.. I have a feeling he won't fare quite as well.
- a sophomore season where he played in 5 games and was inactive for 7 games
- a 3rd season that saw the Panthers change from a man-to-man scheme to a zone. Norman started the year as a backup, but became a start in week 8 and played well
- a 4th season where he was considered a top CB in the league.
People acting as if this guy has been great consistently conveniently overlook the fact that he has had really just one good season - a season in zone coverage with the best LB's in the league in front of him.
Sticks to his guns and the only fact he accepts is the pff grade. He accepts this as a fact because an article states nfl teams use pff. The article is unclear whether these teams use the raw data or flawed rating system but he ignores that too.
The guy is good but not the best. There's a very logical and coherent argument stated by several posters when you look at his history as a player and the scheme he played in last season.
I hope we get him to cry harder than that. Now that he has Perry Fewell teaching him everything he knows, it's going to be even sweeter to expose this jackass as the loudmouth fucking weasel that he is.
This is a very good omen. Just this morning, I saw a Siberian weasel while I was climbing a local mountain. Giants win big on Sunday.
Norman is extremely athletic and reads QBs well. I can't post the gif right now, but someone find the one where he, body all contorted, at the last second deflects the ball thrown to Vincent Jackson.
No one's saying he's Darrell Green, but it's fairly obvious some are loathe to admit that he's a really good corner merely because he was a big meanie to Beckham. Would definitely prefer he had stayed outside the NFC East.
Agreed.
If we dug up the thread(s) when Norman was released from NC and before he signed with Washington there were many here who were like "sign him"...
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But I also enjoy being impartial, and it can be bang-head-on-desk bad here when it comes to BBIers giving credit where it's due for players on the Skins, Cowboys, and Eagles.
Be careful with banging your head on your desk; you might knock over your dolls.
hahahahaha.
Fekker isn't the only one who is confused..
radar in April...
chris r : 4/21/2016 6:22 am : link
player who will go the Nnamdi Asomugha route when not in the system. Except he's a giant asshole too.
radar in September playing his favorite role...
chris r : 9/21/2016 3:48 pm : link : reply
and the Skins always double the other guy, why wouldn't teams always line their best receiver across from Norman to get single coverage?
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But I also enjoy being impartial, and it can be bang-head-on-desk bad here when it comes to BBIers giving credit where it's due for players on the Skins, Cowboys, and Eagles.
Be careful with banging your head on your desk; you might knock over your dolls.
They're replica figurines!
And I don't blame him one bit.
And I don't blame him one bit.
Sounds like a euphemism.
It's pretty easy to conflate overrated, overpaid, overexposed, and annoying with sucking, but I don't think anyone is saying that.
Can't he be a good player and all the other things?
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Here's the thread when the Panthers rescinded the tag. Going through the thread, Mike in Long Beach was confused then, and still confused now. Gee, FEK, if there's no benefit for rescinding the tag, why did they do it? Link - ( New Window )
Fekker isn't the only one who is confused..
radar in April...
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system
chris r : 4/21/2016 6:22 am : link
player who will go the Nnamdi Asomugha route when not in the system. Except he's a giant asshole too.
radar in September playing his favorite role...
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If Norman wasn't good
chris r : 9/21/2016 3:48 pm : link : reply
and the Skins always double the other guy, why wouldn't teams always line their best receiver across from Norman to get single coverage?
Hahaha this is great
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In comment 13136072 David in LA said:
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Here's the thread when the Panthers rescinded the tag. Going through the thread, Mike in Long Beach was confused then, and still confused now. Gee, FEK, if there's no benefit for rescinding the tag, why did they do it? Link - ( New Window )
Fekker isn't the only one who is confused..
radar in April...
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system
chris r : 4/21/2016 6:22 am : link
player who will go the Nnamdi Asomugha route when not in the system. Except he's a giant asshole too.
radar in September playing his favorite role...
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If Norman wasn't good
chris r : 9/21/2016 3:48 pm : link : reply
and the Skins always double the other guy, why wouldn't teams always line their best receiver across from Norman to get single coverage?
Hahaha this is great
To be fair, that actually could have just been a legitimate question... why don't teams just put their best player on Norman when he's si...
...never mind, I can't do it.