Among the many times I'm beaten up on this site, the only time I actually care is when it's relation to the Giants. Last year I called Norman the best corner in the league and a whole lot of posters called me an idiot for it. Now I'm fully aware that the formula for full-on devastation on BBI is to not only start a thread tooting your own horn, but to do so utilizing PFF data. But that's what's happening. Josh Norman is the best corner in the NFL, IMO. Denial only makes it worse. At the absolute very least he deserves to be in the conversation, if not leading the pack.
I love that he's this good, because if we were to have the #1 receiver in the NFL (I think we have #2) it would make this rivalry even more fun. As it stands, it's still fucking fantastic.
There were then, and still are great arguments for other cornerbacks. But Norman is indisputably top 3, if not #1.
| Through two games, Redskins CB Josh Norman is the league’s leading cornerback, with a 91.6 overall grade—a higher mark even than his 87.9 from last season. |
Some thoughts on Norman not shadowing the best receivers in the game thus far:
When Norman faced Antonio Brown and Dez Bryant in Weeks 1 and 2, respectively, he kept a clean sheet across the board. The problem people have, though, is that he hasn’t done it enough. Many see tracking a No. 1 receiver as a necessary step to being classified as an elite corner, regardless of the fact that it’s not the cornerback’s decision to make.
Seahawks CB Richard Sherman is arguably the best cornerback in the game right now, but that comes with an asterisk to many because he isn’t asked to follow top receivers; guys like Jets CB Darrelle Revis and Cardinals CB Patrick Peterson are. Seattle believes the defense is better overall when keeping Sherman on one side and leaning coverage away from him to help the other side, allowing the No. 2 corner to have help from safeties buzzing down from bracket coverage, generally reducing the amount of space a great receiver can utilize to beat him. |
More PFF Norman content here. - (
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Unfortunately the Beckham incident has made Giants' fans not as objective in their view of him just like Niner fans and Richard Sherman. It's just reality.
Both CBs play one side, both have great supporting personnel and coaching. A lot of similarities there. Carolina might have had a better front 7 than the Seahawks but their secondary was never quite as good as the Earl Thomas/Kam Chancellor combo (combined with Pete Carroll's cover 3 scheme). In critical pass rushing situations, the Michael Bennett/Cliff Avril combo was probably better than Greg Hardy and their other DE.
Sherman always got benefit of the doubt while Norman hasn't.
Another thing Norman has going over Sherman was that he was never accused of the subtle illegal contact the Seahawks had gotten away with years ago and might still be doing now.
Joe Haden never had anywhere near the level of support of these other guys in Cleveland, so maybe people should be talking him up as the best CB in the game right now.
Really a silly thing to get worked up on, because the issue of whether a CB is shutdown or not doesn't change a whole lot in the grand scheme of how good a defense really is.
Interesting question about the better front 7, CAR vs. SEA. At first I thpught SEA hands down, but Carolina had the better DT in Lotulelei. Still, Mebane was not much of a drop off. While I still think the Hawks with Irvin as SAM was the better unit, the Panthers are right behind them with Thompson there.
At the end of the day, I think both Norman and Sherman are very overrated...and ODB owned both of them despite being the number one focus of the offense.
And as for Fast Eddie's fuck-up, I absolutely think DRC, Revis (although this year that might not be the case), and Aquib Talib are better than either Sherman or Norman. Joe Haden too.
To enact such hypocrisy, contradictory logic, and brute stupidity upon a group of people with such ferocity and indignation is actually a kind of accomplishment.
Mike, you said Norman was good before PFF did. You called it! You're such a fucking hipster genius, I'm in awe. Thank you for correcting all us wee BBIers in our ignorance of your greatness and that of the greatness of the PFF champion of the secondary: Josh Norman. Can we proceed with not being pretentious little fucks now, who nitpick and self-congratulate every other post?
Winner for post with the most nouns that end with "y" goes to adamg
PS- if you called him a pussy, you would have set the bar a little higher.
😉
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in self-aggrandizing, ex post facto one-upmanship I've ever seen.
To enact such hypocrisy, contradictory logic, and brute stupidity upon a group of people with such ferocity and indignation is actually a kind of accomplishment.
Mike, you said Norman was good before PFF did. You called it! You're such a fucking hipster genius, I'm in awe. Thank you for correcting all us wee BBIers in our ignorance of your greatness and that of the greatness of the PFF champion of the secondary: Josh Norman. Can we proceed with not being pretentious little fucks now, who nitpick and self-congratulate every other post?
Winner for post with the most nouns that end with "y" goes to adamg
PS- if you called him a pussy, you would have set the bar a little higher.
😉
All the time I spent on that and I forget to add 'pussy'...
I hope we get him to cry harder than that. Now that he has Perry Fewell teaching him everything he knows, it's going to be even sweeter to expose this jackass as the loudmouth fucking weasel that he is.
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In comment 13135437 adamg said:
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in self-aggrandizing, ex post facto one-upmanship I've ever seen.
To enact such hypocrisy, contradictory logic, and brute stupidity upon a group of people with such ferocity and indignation is actually a kind of accomplishment.
Mike, you said Norman was good before PFF did. You called it! You're such a fucking hipster genius, I'm in awe. Thank you for correcting all us wee BBIers in our ignorance of your greatness and that of the greatness of the PFF champion of the secondary: Josh Norman. Can we proceed with not being pretentious little fucks now, who nitpick and self-congratulate every other post?
Winner for post with the most nouns that end with "y" goes to adamg
PS- if you called him a pussy, you would have set the bar a little higher.
😉
All the time I spent on that and I forget to add 'pussy'...
Lol.....you need to surrender to the flow.
Be careful with banging your head on your desk; you might knock over your dolls.
Unfortunately the Beckham incident has made Giants' fans not as objective in their view of him just like Niner fans and Richard Sherman. It's just reality.
Both CBs play one side, both have great supporting personnel and coaching. A lot of similarities there. Carolina might have had a better front 7 than the Seahawks but their secondary was never quite as good as the Earl Thomas/Kam Chancellor combo (combined with Pete Carroll's cover 3 scheme). In critical pass rushing situations, the Michael Bennett/Cliff Avril combo was probably better than Greg Hardy and their other DE.
Sherman always got benefit of the doubt while Norman hasn't.
Another thing Norman has going over Sherman was that he was never accused of the subtle illegal contact the Seahawks had gotten away with years ago and might still be doing now.
Joe Haden never had anywhere near the level of support of these other guys in Cleveland, so maybe people should be talking him up as the best CB in the game right now.
Really a silly thing to get worked up on, because the issue of whether a CB is shutdown or not doesn't change a whole lot in the grand scheme of how good a defense really is.
Sherman is a similar corner scheme/responsibility-wise but last year they really had no one on the other side. Cary Williams was there for a chunk of the season and sucked. Sherman was asked to do more and they had him travel and cover top WR's more often and he did a pretty good job. He did cover Antonio Brown unlike Norman and Brown finished that day with 6 catches for just 51 yards.
Norman is going to try to do the same thing this Sunday if you believe what's coming out of DC.. I have a feeling he won't fare quite as well.
- a sophomore season where he played in 5 games and was inactive for 7 games
- a 3rd season that saw the Panthers change from a man-to-man scheme to a zone. Norman started the year as a backup, but became a start in week 8 and played well
- a 4th season where he was considered a top CB in the league.
People acting as if this guy has been great consistently conveniently overlook the fact that he has had really just one good season - a season in zone coverage with the best LB's in the league in front of him.
Sticks to his guns and the only fact he accepts is the pff grade. He accepts this as a fact because an article states nfl teams use pff. The article is unclear whether these teams use the raw data or flawed rating system but he ignores that too.
The guy is good but not the best. There's a very logical and coherent argument stated by several posters when you look at his history as a player and the scheme he played in last season.
I hope we get him to cry harder than that. Now that he has Perry Fewell teaching him everything he knows, it's going to be even sweeter to expose this jackass as the loudmouth fucking weasel that he is.
This is a very good omen. Just this morning, I saw a Siberian weasel while I was climbing a local mountain. Giants win big on Sunday.
Norman is extremely athletic and reads QBs well. I can't post the gif right now, but someone find the one where he, body all contorted, at the last second deflects the ball thrown to Vincent Jackson.
No one's saying he's Darrell Green, but it's fairly obvious some are loathe to admit that he's a really good corner merely because he was a big meanie to Beckham. Would definitely prefer he had stayed outside the NFC East.
Agreed.
If we dug up the thread(s) when Norman was released from NC and before he signed with Washington there were many here who were like "sign him"...
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But I also enjoy being impartial, and it can be bang-head-on-desk bad here when it comes to BBIers giving credit where it's due for players on the Skins, Cowboys, and Eagles.
Be careful with banging your head on your desk; you might knock over your dolls.
hahahahaha.
Fekker isn't the only one who is confused..
radar in April...
chris r : 4/21/2016 6:22 am : link
player who will go the Nnamdi Asomugha route when not in the system. Except he's a giant asshole too.
radar in September playing his favorite role...
chris r : 9/21/2016 3:48 pm : link : reply
and the Skins always double the other guy, why wouldn't teams always line their best receiver across from Norman to get single coverage?
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But I also enjoy being impartial, and it can be bang-head-on-desk bad here when it comes to BBIers giving credit where it's due for players on the Skins, Cowboys, and Eagles.
Be careful with banging your head on your desk; you might knock over your dolls.
They're replica figurines!
And I don't blame him one bit.
And I don't blame him one bit.
Sounds like a euphemism.
It's pretty easy to conflate overrated, overpaid, overexposed, and annoying with sucking, but I don't think anyone is saying that.
Can't he be a good player and all the other things?
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Here's the thread when the Panthers rescinded the tag. Going through the thread, Mike in Long Beach was confused then, and still confused now. Gee, FEK, if there's no benefit for rescinding the tag, why did they do it? Link - ( New Window )
Fekker isn't the only one who is confused..
radar in April...
Quote:
system
chris r : 4/21/2016 6:22 am : link
player who will go the Nnamdi Asomugha route when not in the system. Except he's a giant asshole too.
radar in September playing his favorite role...
Quote:
If Norman wasn't good
chris r : 9/21/2016 3:48 pm : link : reply
and the Skins always double the other guy, why wouldn't teams always line their best receiver across from Norman to get single coverage?
Hahaha this is great
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In comment 13136072 David in LA said:
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Here's the thread when the Panthers rescinded the tag. Going through the thread, Mike in Long Beach was confused then, and still confused now. Gee, FEK, if there's no benefit for rescinding the tag, why did they do it? Link - ( New Window )
Fekker isn't the only one who is confused..
radar in April...
Quote:
system
chris r : 4/21/2016 6:22 am : link
player who will go the Nnamdi Asomugha route when not in the system. Except he's a giant asshole too.
radar in September playing his favorite role...
Quote:
If Norman wasn't good
chris r : 9/21/2016 3:48 pm : link : reply
and the Skins always double the other guy, why wouldn't teams always line their best receiver across from Norman to get single coverage?
Hahaha this is great
To be fair, that actually could have just been a legitimate question... why don't teams just put their best player on Norman when he's si...
...never mind, I can't do it.