The Future of Landon Collins

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In comment 13135304 Moondawg said:

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Not yet. Plus Rolle was a solid leader. I am also happy about Collins' development

Not yet. But he could be more dominant at the line of scrimmage.

Kenny Phillips could never do what Collins does at the line.

Collins will improve exponentially in pass coverage overtime

In his own way.

Eli was made fun of for this very thing at one point in time

though he is better than last year

He seems to have a knack for blitzing and he is good against the run and sniffing out screens.

Still a work in progress and I think the jury is still out on how good he will be.

In comment 13135304 Moondawg said:

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Not in coverage and probably never will be seeing as Rolle was a converted CB, but seems to play the line and tackle just as well as Rolle.

Includes making a good number of pro bowls at SS; perhaps as early as this season.

I wonder if his cover problems are simply a product of his never being taught how to do it at a high level (especially at Alabama).

I've read a couple of articles this past year. In one he confesses that he was thoroughly lost last year, in the other he laughs at himself - how helpless he looked.

This year he knows what he's doing and has a lot better player around him. I think he future is very bright.

Collins already has more passes defended in deep coverage than Rolle had in his entire time here.

Is that he is thinking less and is reacting to what he sees much quicker. He stated several times in the off-season that his number one priority was learning to trust and building rapport with whoever it was who earned the FS job. It's clear he is made that happen with Thompson. I'd say his biggest problem last season was indecisiveness. It's easy to say "he struggled in coverage. He did. But You can't tell me much of that was hesitancy and reluctance to trust that the other guysn1)knew their job and 2) were able to do it.

This year there is none that. He knows that Darian knows his assignments and responsibilities and he isn't worried about whether or not his backfield mats are going to be in the right position while simultaneously reading the play is it develops and locking down his own responsibilities. A year in the system, being surrounded by guys he trusts, and being able to just focus on his own responsibilities without those added concerns is making all the difference in the world.

Finally, I thought this evaluation from retired player turned film junkie Dominique Foxworth was very telling: the Giants starting CB duo casts large shadows. Both experienced vets in their prime, one coming off a pro bowl season, the other the new big ticket FA acquisition. Both are big personalities and presences in the field and in the locker room. But when breaking down the all 22 film of the Saints game Who did Foxwerth identify as the leader of the Giants secondary? Landon Collins:

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. I know not everyone loves defense as much as I do, but the Giants put together a special game that should be appreciated. Especially the defensive backs. Led by Landon Collins, they were the best group on the field

During the modern Eli era. Yes, better than Rolle. His career ending injury has probably done more to set this defense back than any other singular event.

In comment 13135429 Modus Operandi said:

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During the modern Eli era. Yes, better than Rolle. His career ending injury has probably done more to set this defense back than any other singular event.

While I appreciate bold, I think that is just ridiculous. Not maintainining the talent on the D line, TT getting whammied with his ACL and Prince being a disappointment were much much MUCH bigger problems for us. Phillips was good as a CF, but he was not what Rolle was.

I was thrilled we stole last year. He was overlooked in the draft I thought and while I thought he'd have been better in covering backs and TEs, he was a helluva tackler. He also diagnosed plays and was a missile out there. Reminded me a lot of Gibril Wilson's rookie year. But unlike Wilson, Collins is BIG. He can learn how to cover because he is also QUICK. He can blow up plays because he is also faster than most LBs and is a player most lineman will miss on blocks. He plays like an Alabama defender, and is fundamentally sound.

While he might not be fit for the sexier of the safety positions, I look at him as a guy who can augment the LBs and cover a bit. He is a rare asset. He is our Kam Chancellor and I think he will progress more in pass coverage than many of you think.

That's a great post dude...

While it's hard to untangle correlation and causation, look at the timing of KP's injuries in 2009 and 2012. They are almost exactly aligned with huge drops in defensive performance, and jumps in big plays by opponents.

Comparing Phillips and Rolle might be pointless. They were complementary talents. Phillips was a classic centerfielder, and probably the best of his kind for the Giants since Spider Lockhart, maybe longer. Rolle was a bit of an oddity. Despite his CB background and man cover skills, I don't think he was ever particularly good as a deep zone defender.

j_rud said:

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... when breaking down the all 22 film of the Saints game Who did Foxworth identify as the leader of the Giants secondary? Landon Collins

Foxworth also identified Collins (by position, not by name) as the culprit on Willie Snead's TD:

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The Giants were in cover 4 and the initial offensive formation had the tight end aligned to the offensive left, two backs in the backfield and two receivers to the right. Versus that formation, the tight end side safety should double-team the tight end with the cornerback. But that wasn’t the final formation. Before the snap, the fullback motioned to the right, past both receivers, creating a three-receiver formation and the threat of four verticals passing routes. When there are four eligible receivers near the line of scrimmage before the snap, the safeties are responsible for the two inside receivers if they run vertical routes. Of course they did. The safety didn’t recognize the fourth vertical threat, so he turned to double the tight end. Brees immediately recognized the mistake and found Snead wide open for the touchdown.

I think Collins is blossoming into a playmaker, and that he will "lead" by example and performance, which is how Foxworth meant it. In the the broader sense of leadership, though, Thompson seems more likely to emerge as the QB of that secondary.

In comment 13135444 Big Blue Blogger said:

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While it's hard to untangle correlation and causation, look at the timing of KP's injuries in 2009 and 2012. They are almost exactly aligned with huge drops in defensive performance, and jumps in big plays by opponents. Comparing Phillips and Rolle might be pointless. They were complementary talents. Phillips was a classic centerfielder, and probably the best of his kind for the Giants since Spider Lockhart, maybe longer. Rolle was a bit of an oddity. Despite his CB background and man cover skills, I don't think he was ever particularly good as a deep zone defender.

That may be. But I just felt Phillips was TOO much of a CF. It was also at a time when we had some pretty good corners in CW and TT. i just think that Rolle was much more of an impact player.

Phillips was never a conspicuous playmaker like Troy Polamalu, that's true. His impact, IMO, was more like Damon Harrison's: in his brief prime, KP did one, un-sexy job so well that opponents seldom challenged him. Phillips influenced offenses' appetite to attack the deep middle as Harrison erases the inside running game, though of course less completely. I do take your point, though, and it's a fair one.

Coming back to the current safety duo, I love what we've seen from Collins and Thompson so far. It's really early, but the signs are there.

In comment 13135397 Vanzetti said:

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though he is better than last year He seems to have a knack for blitzing and he is good against the run and sniffing out screens. Still a work in progress and I think the jury is still out on how good he will be.

Spags will figure it out. He wasn't much of a liabilty last week. I thought he had a great game - especially early.

this season.

is permitted to use the phrase "best I ever remember" unless discussing candy or onesies.

In comment 13135445 Big Blue Blogger said:

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j_rud said: Quote: ... when breaking down the all 22 film of the Saints game Who did Foxworth identify as the leader of the Giants secondary? Landon Collins Foxworth also identified Collins (by position, not by name) as the culprit on Willie Snead's TD: Quote: The Giants were in cover 4 and the initial offensive formation had the tight end aligned to the offensive left, two backs in the backfield and two receivers to the right. Versus that formation, the tight end side safety should double-team the tight end with the cornerback. But that wasn’t the final formation. Before the snap, the fullback motioned to the right, past both receivers, creating a three-receiver formation and the threat of four verticals passing routes. When there are four eligible receivers near the line of scrimmage before the snap, the safeties are responsible for the two inside receivers if they run vertical routes. Of course they did. The safety didn’t recognize the fourth vertical threat, so he turned to double the tight end. Brees immediately recognized the mistake and found Snead wide open for the touchdown. I think Collins is blossoming into a playmaker, and that he will "lead" by example and performance, which is how Foxworth meant it. In the the broader sense of leadership, though, Thompson seems more likely to emerge as the QB of that secondary.

Sure, quite possible if not likely. But there are different types of leadership. Thompson may end up the QB ofmthenback 7 but there's obviously something to be said for leading by example and setting the tone on D. In fact you could easily argue that it's better to have two guys splitting leadership responsibilities, the cerebral guy who reads the O and gets everyone sorted out pre-snap and the physical presence who sets the tone once the play is underway.

In any case, I think it's obvious that the team not only solved its longstanding problem with the safety position, they just may have turned it into a strength.

they stay hit.

In comment 13135429 Modus Operandi said:

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During the modern Eli era. Yes, better than Rolle. His career ending injury has probably done more to set this defense back than any other singular event.

Good call.

I do not think he is a libility in coverage like he was last year playing out of position. If you are asking him to cover Dez multiple times that is a DC issue.

Rolle was very good except to me he was not good at taking angles on deep throws. His advantage is he could actually play both S positions well

Philips was their best center field type S. He seemed more adept at defending the vertical passing game and knew how to stay deep when needed.

I always found it interesting that Phillips received more props from opposing teams than from his own fan base

Collins looks night and day better by playing his natural position and being a little lighter

Much of which was spent working with retired safety Ryan Clark at his "DB Precision" camp in Baton Rouge. By all accounts it sounds like he put in serious work, not only on the field but changing some habits away from it as well. Some selected quotes, including some basic comparisons that are sure to excite some and, knowing BBI, worry others...

On making changes away from the field and putting down the Oreos

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Clark said he believes Collins can be a special player. “I do, I do,” Clark said. “I am very hard on him. There was many a day I called him ‘fat.’ And told him, that ‘Hey, if you want to continue to be seen as a box safety, then don’t eat right. If you want to continue to be seen as a guy that can only play one type of football, don’t take the training seriously.’ And I was on him about ‘What you did at Alabama, what you did at high school, that’s over. Every day you’re building your résumé.’

On remaining teachable and Collins desire to excel...

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“It was his desire to be great,” Clark said. “A lot of times you run across these young athletes, or athletes who have been highly touted for so long in their life, and you feel like part of the desire isn’t there, that they’ve achieved what they’ve always worked for, and now, ‘I’m gonna rest on my laurels.’ But to watch him each and every day ask questions, to constantly be seeking information and experience and wisdom, it was good for me to see this young, hungry man trying to be better, and so I enjoy working with him.”

And finally, who Collins' strength, explosiveness, and athleticism reminds Clark of, despite having a ways to go...

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“I think as a player, it’s just how strong he is,” Clark told The Post. “I played with Troy Polamalu, who’s extremely strong, and as far as in the weight room and the way he’s able to move, the way he’s able to explode, he reminds me of Troy, in that sense. Obviously, the on-the-field play has to progress and pick up to be that level, but he’s that type of explosive athlete.”

Ryan Clark Raves about Landon Collins - ( New Window )

and his ability to get from sideline to sideline in incredible time used to absolutely shrink the field on opponents. He was a massive loss. Especially when you replace him with CC Brown.

In comment 13135490 English Alaister said:

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and his ability to get from sideline to sideline in incredible time used to absolutely shrink the field on opponents. He was a massive loss. Especially when you replace him with CC Brown.

CC Brown...good Lord. Just when Will Demps turns in what you think is the worst possible performance one could see from a safety, in came CC Brown, who turned in more bad plays than a community theater group...

In comment 13135487 j_rud said:

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Much of which was spent working with retired safety Ryan Clark at his "DB Precision" camp in Baton Rouge. By all accounts it sounds like he put in serious work, not only on the field but changing some habits away from it as well. Some selected quotes, including some basic comparisons that are sure to excite some and, knowing BBI, worry others... On making changes away from the field and putting down the Oreos Quote: Clark said he believes Collins can be a special player. “I do, I do,” Clark said. “I am very hard on him. There was many a day I called him ‘fat.’ And told him, that ‘Hey, if you want to continue to be seen as a box safety, then don’t eat right. If you want to continue to be seen as a guy that can only play one type of football, don’t take the training seriously.’ And I was on him about ‘What you did at Alabama, what you did at high school, that’s over. Every day you’re building your résumé.’ On remaining teachable and Collins desire to excel... Quote: “It was his desire to be great,” Clark said. “A lot of times you run across these young athletes, or athletes who have been highly touted for so long in their life, and you feel like part of the desire isn’t there, that they’ve achieved what they’ve always worked for, and now, ‘I’m gonna rest on my laurels.’ But to watch him each and every day ask questions, to constantly be seeking information and experience and wisdom, it was good for me to see this young, hungry man trying to be better, and so I enjoy working with him.” And finally, who Collins' strength, explosiveness, and athleticism reminds Clark of, despite having a ways to go... Quote: “I think as a player, it’s just how strong he is,” Clark told The Post. “I played with Troy Polamalu, who’s extremely strong, and as far as in the weight room and the way he’s able to move, the way he’s able to explode, he reminds me of Troy, in that sense. Obviously, the on-the-field play has to progress and pick up to be that level, but he’s that type of explosive athlete.” Ryan Clark Raves about Landon Collins - ( New Window )

Wow, great link (and quotes) J_rud. Thanks. Those 2 could be the best Safety tandem we have had back there in a while. Hoping they can both stay healthy and continually dedicated.

Giants Life feature on Landon Collins. You can see Clark talk about him and watch some of his offseason workouts.
Giants Life - Landon Collins - ( New Window )

by comparing him to what we have had out there.....but he was good, not great....he played like a deep centerfielder, the last line of defense, in a defense that was bend don't break...he was not a turnover machine by any means...a lot of his int's were hail mary, desperation passes at end of games.....he had one good, not great, season....those knees took their toll on him....at the end, he complained he played the position the way he was told to play it, and not the way he wanted to....

As for Collins, he has looked better this season....being thrown into the fire last season, many expected a miracle....he missed tackles, couldn't cover, and made many mistakes(remember when he forgot to down a player?)....

But it looks like he has learned from those mistakes......he came to play this year....he is all over the field .....he still needs work with coverage skills, but he seems to be playing with a confidence he didn't have last year....

Honestly my inspiration for the post.

He can tackle your biggest running back behind the line of scrimmage and cover Dez down field. Impressive

In comment 13135468 WillieYoung said:

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is permitted to use the phrase "best I ever remember" unless discussing candy or onesies.

Ha! Which is why I allowed you guys to know my age. I have a limited perspective for sure. Rolle and Phillips are his only competition in his second year.

And C.c. brown

Pleasantly surprised. If he continues playing as is, he's a core player.

is the new NFL's safety/linebacker and he's damn good at it. Love what I'm seeing so far. Best tackling safety we've had in some time.

knocked/thought it was absurd to say Collins had a good rookie season leading all rookies in tackles because "the defense was on the field the whole game." Well - what it showed was he's an excellent tackler and very good near the LOS.

In comment 13135435 chopperhatch said:

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I was thrilled we stole last year. He was overlooked in the draft I thought and while I thought he'd have been better in covering backs and TEs, he was a helluva tackler. He also diagnosed plays and was a missile out there. Reminded me a lot of Gibril Wilson's rookie year. But unlike Wilson, Collins is BIG. He can learn how to cover because he is also QUICK. He can blow up plays because he is also faster than most LBs and is a player most lineman will miss on blocks. He plays like an Alabama defender, and is fundamentally sound. While he might not be fit for the sexier of the safety positions, I look at him as a guy who can augment the LBs and cover a bit. He is a rare asset. He is our Kam Chancellor and I think he will progress more in pass coverage than many of you think.

Thanks Seth, you saved me from wasting words..Not surprisingly, this is an excellent post..

I believe Collins' apparent increase in speed has much to do with his 10-15 pound weight loss in the offseason, along with better anticipation/recognition skills, imv

In comment 13135319 EricJ said:

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In comment 13135304 Moondawg said: Quote: . Not yet. Plus Rolle was a solid leader. I am also happy about Collins' development

Collins is better in year 2 than Rolle was in year 2

if u put a guy like that behind a great front 4 you've got big problems because you can't block him. he just smashes anybody that pops thru

now, sure, every S in the league is better behind a good front 4 but LC is a destructive force behind it

perfect fit behind this DLine

Tells me that his future, as bright as it may be, is also linked to the rest of the young guns in the secondary. May they all stay healthy and productive. Along with veterans like DRC and JJ, this could be the best defensive backfield the Giants have showcased in quite a while.

In comment 13135519 SomeFan said:

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Pleasantly surprised. If he continues playing as is, he's a core player.

To me, he's already a core player. The question is just how good can he be? Imagine this defense without collins. He has already made huge plays in both the run and pass game. Not to mention what we can't see as fans such as scheme alignment pre snap.

His play in both run and pass defense is a HUGE reason why the Giants are 2-0. I fear his loss would be extremely difficult to overcome.

(yes, i Know, they had nobody else) and 2) he was too big/heavy. Kids showing that he's a player now that he lightened up a little and is being used properly.

In comment 13135568 Tony-in-Wichita said:

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In comment 13135519 SomeFan said: Quote: Pleasantly surprised. If he continues playing as is, he's a core player. To me, he's already a core player. The question is just how good can he be? Imagine this defense without collins. He has already made huge plays in both the run and pass game. Not to mention what we can't see as fans such as scheme alignment pre snap. His play in both run and pass defense is a HUGE reason why the Giants bare 2-0. I fear his loss would be extremely difficult to overcome.

I wouldn't argue against that.

... very near future. Again, nothing illegal or dirty. Just good, clean football fun.

a great in the box safety. Won't kill you in coverage but won't be remembered for his coverage skills. Overall we should be very happy with Collins over the long haul. He's a great tackler.

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In comment 13135700 djm said:

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a great in the box safety. Won't kill you in coverage but won't be remembered for his coverage skills. Overall we should be very happy with Collins over the long haul. He's a great tackler.

His pass coverage against Dez was memorable, to me. His play against tight ends in his young career have certain highlights, one this year that I can recall. I found myself dogging his cover skills as well. The guy was thrown into a terrible defense last year as a rookie.

...but there's no doubt Collins would be badly missed. On top of which, there would then be absolutely nothing behind Berhe.

In comment 13135667 Boy Cord said:

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... very near future. Again, nothing illegal or dirty. Just good, clean football fun.

I was just thinking the exact same thing while reading down this thread.