The hulk scenarios have happened, but it isn't every time. Tazers are often still effective, as is pepper spray. Now that might have contributed to her heightened sense of alarm but by itself it doesn't excuse the conduct.
RE: RE: Whether a mistake or a bad judgement, why shouldn't a police officer Â
Be held accountable? As others have already stated, if she is convicted, she can serve minimal time. However, this idea that if you make a bad judgement call and someone dies, you shouldn't be held accountable because you're a cop and your job is hard is utter bullshit. We give police officers great authority (even to the point of allowing them to take a life if necey), and in the same regards, they should be held to the highest of standards.
You don't think the collateral damage of this woman carrying around that she ended someones life the rest of her life and the fact her Career is over is not punishment. She made a judgement and killed someone because of it. I'm sure the Android Police force without emotions could handle that but this was a inexperienced officer who do to the training did the wrong thing.
She was a 5 year vet (not a rookie) and I have no doubt she is a good person who had no intention of killing somebody on purpose.
She may have killed somebody by mistake, but she did end a man's life that did not have a weapon.
RE: RE: Whether a mistake or a bad judgement, why shouldn't a police officer Â
Be held accountable? As others have already stated, if she is convicted, she can serve minimal time. However, this idea that if you make a bad judgement call and someone dies, you shouldn't be held accountable because you're a cop and your job is hard is utter bullshit. We give police officers great authority (even to the point of allowing them to take a life if necey), and in the same regards, they should be held to the highest of standards.
You don't think the collateral damage of this woman carrying around that she ended someones life the rest of her life and the fact her Career is over is not punishment. She made a judgement and killed someone because of it. I'm sure the Android Police force without emotions could handle that but this was a inexperienced officer who do to the training did the wrong thing.
She was a 5 year vet (not a rookie) and I have no doubt she is a good person who had no intention of killing somebody on purpose.
She may have killed somebody by mistake, but she did end a man's life that did not have a weapon.
Of course it's a different standard, and it should be... Â
Police have the authority to use force and where appropriate to display and sometimes to discharge firearms. They must be expected to refrain from arbitrary or malicious use of that authority, but an officer can make a mistake, even a lethal mistake, without it necessarily being criminal. Because what is asked of them is so different, the standard should be different. Of course someone who may not be criminally culpable may be deserving.of administrative discipline or termination.
Of course it's a different standard, and it should be... Â
Police have the authority to use force and where appropriate to display and sometimes to discharge firearms. They must be expected to refrain from arbitrary or malicious use of that authority, but an officer can make a mistake, even a lethal mistake, without it necessarily being criminal. Because what is asked of them is so different, the standard should be different. Of course someone who may not be criminally culpable may be deserving.of administrative discipline or termination.
RE: RE: Whether a mistake or a bad judgement, why shouldn't a police officer Â
Be held accountable? As others have already stated, if she is convicted, she can serve minimal time. However, this idea that if you make a bad judgement call and someone dies, you shouldn't be held accountable because you're a cop and your job is hard is utter bullshit. We give police officers great authority (even to the point of allowing them to take a life if necey), and in the same regards, they should be held to the highest of standards.
This I agree with. My concealed weapons instructor was the weapons instructor for the local PD (himself a cop). He said quite clearly, the police have the same requirements that civilians do in the use of deadly force. Obviously, with police, any encounter can turn deadly and they meet "bad" people many times per week.
It's a little different in that a citizen can just leave a dicey situation instead of forcing a resolution. And they definitely don't have to apprehend anyone. So the citizen has the benefit of avoiding confrontation which might escalate. But just as with police a citizen can be deemed justified using deadly force if they reasonably feared for their life. Just like the Zimmerman case. And then it's still controversial.
RE: Of course it's a different standard, and it should be... Â
Police have the authority to use force and where appropriate to display and sometimes to discharge firearms. They must be expected to refrain from arbitrary or malicious use of that authority, but an officer can make a mistake, even a lethal mistake, without it necessarily being criminal. Because what is asked of them is so different, the standard should be different. Of course someone who may not be criminally culpable may be deserving.of administrative discipline or termination.
Dunedin, are you referencing my post? If so, I'm just telling you what was taught at my course. This fellow was all about the rules. Also, police have much better training than any civilian, so they should actually be held to a higher standard, shouldn't they? No doubt people do stupid/purposeful things to force the police officer's hand.
Heck, I was just thinking that maybe the other cop shooting the taser may have jolted her into squeezing trigger, which should not have been on the trigger.
RE: Of course it's a different standard, and it should be... Â
Police have the authority to use force and where appropriate to display and sometimes to discharge firearms. They must be expected to refrain from arbitrary or malicious use of that authority, but an officer can make a mistake, even a lethal mistake, without it necessarily being criminal. Because what is asked of them is so different, the standard should be different. Of course someone who may not be criminally culpable may be deserving.of administrative discipline or termination.
Dunedin, are you referencing my post? If so, I'm just telling you what was taught at my course. This fellow was all about the rules. Also, police have much better training than any civilian, so they should actually be held to a higher standard, shouldn't they? No doubt people do stupid/purposeful things to force the police officer's hand.
Heck, I was just thinking that maybe the other cop shooting the taser may have jolted her into squeezing trigger, which should not have been on the trigger.
RE: RE: Whether a mistake or a bad judgement, why shouldn't a police officer Â
Be held accountable? As others have already stated, if she is convicted, she can serve minimal time. However, this idea that if you make a bad judgement call and someone dies, you shouldn't be held accountable because you're a cop and your job is hard is utter bullshit. We give police officers great authority (even to the point of allowing them to take a life if necey), and in the same regards, they should be held to the highest of standards.
You don't think the collateral damage of this woman carrying around that she ended someones life the rest of her life and the fact her Career is over is not punishment. She made a judgement and killed someone because of it. I'm sure the Android Police force without emotions could handle that but this was a inexperienced officer who do to the training did the wrong thing.
Let talk about the victim too If he was on illegal drugs and was influenced then he put himself in danger when he got behind the wheel and left the safety of his house.
So yes he did put himself in Danger and was not just a stranded motorist. Ever see someone on PCP get Tazed I have in the ER and seen it not effect them at all.
There is your accountability.
Wait... so you're saying that the possible grief that this woman may feel should be punishment enough? For killing an innocent man who posed no threat to her (except for the one she created in her mind)?
Interesting perspective.
It never ceases to amaze me at the way it always seems to get turned on to the victim in these cases.
While on vacation this past summer in Florida I remember seeing a story about a kid down there. Good lookin, well built kid who worked out. Can't remember the age but the kid was at least in high school. So one day the kid's mom calls 911 and tells the dispatcher that her son is acting strange and she's concerned and he just left the house. The kid proceeds to walk down the street and sees a couple, husband and wife... mid-high 50's... sitting in their garage. The kid... high on PCP (or something like it)... proceeds to attack and kill the couple... and begins to eat the husband's face. Officer shows up to see this going on and tries to tase him. No effect. The kid gets in a knockdown-drag out fight in the garage with a few officers... dogs have little effect... and it takes multiple officers to finally subdue the kid.
He's sitting in a cell right now awaiting trial. But he's alive.
Guess what his race is?
It's when we see stories like that... and then stories like this... that frustrates many of us. This kid WAS high on something... DID actually kill someone... DID attack and fight several police officers... and lived to tell about it. This other guy MIGHT HAVE been high on something... didn't hurt anyone or committing any crime (at least not a violent one)... and at worst walked away and not heed orders... and he's dead.
But hey... I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. I'm also seeing some seemingly suggest that it's ok to shoot and kill someone (instead of tase... because you know... it might not work) if the officer even THINKS the other person MIGHT have a gun. This is a big reason why events such as this one will continue to happen.
As horrible as that story is I guess the question raised is did the officers in that case ever believe the boy had a weapon and also believe that their lives were at risk.
The fact the he killed someone with his bare hands is irrelevant unless you believe police should become judge, jury, and executioners of crimes.
a discussion about why the police are on such edge when it comes to dealing with the African American community. Accepting the
narrative that this was simply a bias shooting, what would cause a Black police officer in Charlotte to shoot a Black citizen for no reason? Could it have something to do with the fact that while African Americans make up
only 13% of the population, they are responsible for 52% of gun deaths? That Black on Black gun deaths top 6,000 per year in this country? Is it any wonder that cops, Black or White, are fearful? Scott has shot a man in the past and served time for it as well as for assault with a deadly weapon. Of course this doesn't justify bad shootings by the police. But at some point, there needs to be some self examination in the Black community to assess why there is so much confrontational contact between the community and law enforcement.
It's not about race, it's about poverty. Poor people tend to be much more frequently involved with violent crimes. Now, ask yourself what percentage of white people find themselves below the poverty line, and what percentage of black and Hispanics do, and it'll all be clear.
RE: At some point, some day, there will have to be... Â
a discussion about why the police are on such edge when it comes to dealing with the African American community. Accepting the
narrative that this was simply a bias shooting, what would cause a Black police officer in Charlotte to shoot a Black citizen for no reason? Could it have something to do with the fact that while African Americans make up
only 13% of the population, they are responsible for 52% of gun deaths? That Black on Black gun deaths top 6,000 per year in this country? Is it any wonder that cops, Black or White, are fearful? Scott has shot a man in the past and served time for it as well as for assault with a deadly weapon. Of course this doesn't justify bad shootings by the police. But at some point, there needs to be some self examination in the Black community to assess why there is so much confrontational contact between the community and law enforcement.
It's not about race, it's about poverty. Poor people tend to be much more frequently involved with violent crimes. Now, ask yourself what percentage of white people find themselves below the poverty line, and what percentage of black and Hispanics do, and it'll all be clear.
RE: RE: RE: Whether a mistake or a bad judgement, why shouldn't a police officer Â
Be held accountable? As others have already stated, if she is convicted, she can serve minimal time. However, this idea that if you make a bad judgement call and someone dies, you shouldn't be held accountable because you're a cop and your job is hard is utter bullshit. We give police officers great authority (even to the point of allowing them to take a life if necey), and in the same regards, they should be held to the highest of standards.
You don't think the collateral damage of this woman carrying around that she ended someones life the rest of her life and the fact her Career is over is not punishment. She made a judgement and killed someone because of it. I'm sure the Android Police force without emotions could handle that but this was a inexperienced officer who do to the training did the wrong thing.
Let talk about the victim too If he was on illegal drugs and was influenced then he put himself in danger when he got behind the wheel and left the safety of his house.
So yes he did put himself in Danger and was not just a stranded motorist. Ever see someone on PCP get Tazed I have in the ER and seen it not effect them at all.
There is your accountability.
Wait... so you're saying that the possible grief that this woman may feel should be punishment enough? For killing an innocent man who posed no threat to her (except for the one she created in her mind)?
Interesting perspective.
It never ceases to amaze me at the way it always seems to get turned on to the victim in these cases.
While on vacation this past summer in Florida I remember seeing a story about a kid down there. Good lookin, well built kid who worked out. Can't remember the age but the kid was at least in high school. So one day the kid's mom calls 911 and tells the dispatcher that her son is acting strange and she's concerned and he just left the house. The kid proceeds to walk down the street and sees a couple, husband and wife... mid-high 50's... sitting in their garage. The kid... high on PCP (or something like it)... proceeds to attack and kill the couple... and begins to eat the husband's face. Officer shows up to see this going on and tries to tase him. No effect. The kid gets in a knockdown-drag out fight in the garage with a few officers... dogs have little effect... and it takes multiple officers to finally subdue the kid.
He's sitting in a cell right now awaiting trial. But he's alive.
Guess what his race is?
It's when we see stories like that... and then stories like this... that frustrates many of us. This kid WAS high on something... DID actually kill someone... DID attack and fight several police officers... and lived to tell about it. This other guy MIGHT HAVE been high on something... didn't hurt anyone or committing any crime (at least not a violent one)... and at worst walked away and not heed orders... and he's dead.
But hey... I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. I'm also seeing some seemingly suggest that it's ok to shoot and kill someone (instead of tase... because you know... it might not work) if the officer even THINKS the other person MIGHT have a gun. This is a big reason why events such as this one will continue to happen.
a discussion about why the police are on such edge when it comes to dealing with the African American community. Accepting the
narrative that this was simply a bias shooting, what would cause a Black police officer in Charlotte to shoot a Black citizen for no reason? Could it have something to do with the fact that while African Americans make up
only 13% of the population, they are responsible for 52% of gun deaths? That Black on Black gun deaths top 6,000 per year in this country? Is it any wonder that cops, Black or White, are fearful? Scott has shot a man in the past and served time for it as well as for assault with a deadly weapon. Of course this doesn't justify bad shootings by the police. But at some point, there needs to be some self examination in the Black community to assess why there is so much confrontational contact between the community and law enforcement.
It's not about race, it's about poverty. Poor people tend to be much more frequently involved with violent crimes. Now, ask yourself what percentage of white people find themselves below the poverty line, and what percentage of black and Hispanics do, and it'll all be clear.
I always hear black on black. Never hear white on white. It just needs to be neighbor against neighbor. The guy above me is right. There is a correlation between high unemployment and high crime rate.
Thing is it's not like police don't also shoot unarmed white people Â
According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Postnoted in a new analysis, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
check out the link at 7:29 for a video I watched a few times, around the 49/50 seconds mark the wall of officers split some and you see his arms and hands suddenly down.
Any movement like that could cause a officer to believe his life is in danger. Remember they didn't know that he didn't have a gun until later.
Just my opinion.
It is a shame anyway you look at it.
Everyone should just listen to the police and do as they say, later if you feel they were wrong take them to court.
That way your alive, their alive.
According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Postnoted in a new analysis, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
But then you are getting into the discussion some already touched on with economics and percentage of people involved in violent crimes.
The thing is police shoot unarmed whites also. They aren't targeting blacks.
According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Postnoted in a new analysis, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
Using that kind of blind unthinking population, analysis, you can prove by population statistics, that police discriminate extremely stronger against men over women in fatal shootings,
Cops should be held to a higher standard not lower Â
As horrible as that story is I guess the question raised is did the officers in that case ever believe the boy had a weapon and also believe that their lives were at risk.
The fact the he killed someone with his bare hands is irrelevant unless you believe police should become judge, jury, and executioners of crimes.
Let's see steve... you pull up on a kid who you see has killed two people and is eating the FACE off of one of them... and proceeded to fight other officers... and on the other hand you have a man who has a car broken down in the middle of the road and appears to be high on something but at no point makes a threatening move towards an officer... which one appears to be the more dangerous situation to you?
The argument that they should be held to a lower standard than the public is mindblowing.
What could go wrong giving people huge authority with little reprecussions for bad actions?
It's a different standard. There are very few circumstances where a civilian can lawfully present a firearm. Within those circumstances criminal liability is limited, even in the case of a mistake or an accident.
these are used to force better training methods for handling weapons for law enforcement. That it leads to using methods other than deadly force unless otherwise being unavoidable and it teaches police that being irresponsible has repurcussions.
I have no idea why the man was shot, but anytime a police officer's versions of events is so out of skew with video evidence, I hope there is punishment like this.
And just to be clear, I haven't formed a conclusion as to her guilt or innocence. This is what I said earlier in thread.
Quote:
This is another example of why we always should wait until all the evidence is presented at a hearing or in this case a trial.
You are the one who appears to have formed a conclusion based on limited evidence.
Based on the video, I feel pretty confident about my conclusion so far. If I turn out to be wrong, I can admit that I was wrong based on the evidence that I'd seen at this point.
Literally 15 shootings in Trenton over the weekend. One which left a pregnant mother dead???
#dothoselivesmatter?
As a general principle, people get upset by a killing of a group from the "Other" whether it be race, religion, nationality or in cases we are discussing the evil police. Not so much when killing is within the group.
Literally 15 shootings in Trenton over the weekend. One which left a pregnant mother dead???
#dothoselivesmatter?
As a general principle, people get upset by a killing of a group from the "Other" whether it be race, religion, nationality or in cases we are discussing the evil police. Not so much when killing is within the group.
Literally 15 shootings in Trenton over the weekend. One which left a pregnant mother dead???
#dothoselivesmatter?
Yes, those lives matter. However, their circumstances don't further anyone's agenda.
See the post above. The police shot and killed 990 people in in 2015. Out of the tens of millions of interactions with civilians, that's everyone. One would think there were a lot more than that.
RE: RE: Why isn't anyone upset over the 15...... Â
Literally 15 shootings in Trenton over the weekend. One which left a pregnant mother dead???
#dothoselivesmatter?
Yes, those lives matter. However, their circumstances don't further anyone's agenda.
See the post above. The police shot and killed 990 people in in 2015. Out of the tens of millions of interactions with civilians, that's everyone. One would think there were a lot more than that.
If we are to believe that police are purposely targeting others then you would have to think that number would be much higher, no?
Literally 15 shootings in Trenton over the weekend. One which left a pregnant mother dead???
#dothoselivesmatter?
As a general principle, people get upset by a killing of a group from the "Other" whether it be race, religion, nationality or in cases we are discussing the evil police. Not so much when killing is within the group.
While this is probably true, police shootings uncover another level of outrage than garden variety inter-racial killings or same race killings do because police are seen as an extension of the government.
that's why even though it was a black police officer in Charlotte people didn't care. With police from what I can tell there is no racial distinction of the officer.
Also there are plenty of times when cops shoot unarmed white men also. So based on your reasoning how do you explain that?
Oh... well that means it's ok I guess.
Of course not, but you inferred it was because of race.
What other difference is there between the two? Age? Financial status? Those are more valid reasons in your eyes?
Umm perceived threat?
The point is that if cops shoot BOTH black and white men and the common denominator rightly or wrongly is a perceived threat.
I'm talking about in these two specific cases steve.
OK so if I post a link to two other cases where in one an unarmed white man was shot and in the other a black man was tazed does that prove anything?
I remember reading about two or three times this summer where an unarmed white man was shot by police. It happens, and the better question is about police training and if there can be improvements. Making claims based on only two cases and inferring it is about race in IMO unproductive.
RE: RE: RE: Why isn't anyone upset over the 15...... Â
Literally 15 shootings in Trenton over the weekend. One which left a pregnant mother dead???
#dothoselivesmatter?
As a general principle, people get upset by a killing of a group from the "Other" whether it be race, religion, nationality or in cases we are discussing the evil police. Not so much when killing is within the group.
While this is probably true, police shootings uncover another level of outrage than garden variety inter-racial killings or same race killings do because police are seen as an extension of the government.
that's why even though it was a black police officer in Charlotte people didn't care. With police from what I can tell there is no racial distinction of the officer.
The protesters should walk in an officers shoes for a day. Especially in the inner city locations.
Since these police shootings have started to really catch on as a hot-button topic over the last several years, I've constantly been told that the reason why there are so many police shootings of black people is because black people are more prone to violence and crime. This is a narrative I've been hearing repeatedly. But then, when it appears to be convenient to bring up, it's brought up that police shoot more white people than black people. So... by using the logic applied above... since there are more shootings done by police to white people... that would mean that white people are actually more prone to violence and crime correct? Or am I missing something somewhere?
I don't think the color of anyones skin makes them more or less prone Â
Also there are plenty of times when cops shoot unarmed white men also. So based on your reasoning how do you explain that?
Oh... well that means it's ok I guess.
Of course not, but you inferred it was because of race.
What other difference is there between the two? Age? Financial status? Those are more valid reasons in your eyes?
Umm perceived threat?
The point is that if cops shoot BOTH black and white men and the common denominator rightly or wrongly is a perceived threat.
I'm talking about in these two specific cases steve.
OK so if I post a link to two other cases where in one an unarmed white man was shot and in the other a black man was tazed does that prove anything?
I remember reading about two or three times this summer where an unarmed white man was shot by police. It happens, and the better question is about police training and if there can be improvements. Making claims based on only two cases and inferring it is about race in IMO unproductive.
If you can do it, please feel free. But remember, it has to be under the same circumstances where the white person wasn't (or perhaps I should say shouldn't have been) a perceived threat and the black person was please.
Quote:
Be held accountable? As others have already stated, if she is convicted, she can serve minimal time. However, this idea that if you make a bad judgement call and someone dies, you shouldn't be held accountable because you're a cop and your job is hard is utter bullshit. We give police officers great authority (even to the point of allowing them to take a life if necey), and in the same regards, they should be held to the highest of standards.
You don't think the collateral damage of this woman carrying around that she ended someones life the rest of her life and the fact her Career is over is not punishment. She made a judgement and killed someone because of it. I'm sure the Android Police force without emotions could handle that but this was a inexperienced officer who do to the training did the wrong thing.
She was a 5 year vet (not a rookie) and I have no doubt she is a good person who had no intention of killing somebody on purpose.
She may have killed somebody by mistake, but she did end a man's life that did not have a weapon.
Quote:
Be held accountable? As others have already stated, if she is convicted, she can serve minimal time. However, this idea that if you make a bad judgement call and someone dies, you shouldn't be held accountable because you're a cop and your job is hard is utter bullshit. We give police officers great authority (even to the point of allowing them to take a life if necey), and in the same regards, they should be held to the highest of standards.
You don't think the collateral damage of this woman carrying around that she ended someones life the rest of her life and the fact her Career is over is not punishment. She made a judgement and killed someone because of it. I'm sure the Android Police force without emotions could handle that but this was a inexperienced officer who do to the training did the wrong thing.
She was a 5 year vet (not a rookie) and I have no doubt she is a good person who had no intention of killing somebody on purpose.
She may have killed somebody by mistake, but she did end a man's life that did not have a weapon.
Quote:
Be held accountable? As others have already stated, if she is convicted, she can serve minimal time. However, this idea that if you make a bad judgement call and someone dies, you shouldn't be held accountable because you're a cop and your job is hard is utter bullshit. We give police officers great authority (even to the point of allowing them to take a life if necey), and in the same regards, they should be held to the highest of standards.
This I agree with. My concealed weapons instructor was the weapons instructor for the local PD (himself a cop). He said quite clearly, the police have the same requirements that civilians do in the use of deadly force. Obviously, with police, any encounter can turn deadly and they meet "bad" people many times per week.
It's a little different in that a citizen can just leave a dicey situation instead of forcing a resolution. And they definitely don't have to apprehend anyone. So the citizen has the benefit of avoiding confrontation which might escalate. But just as with police a citizen can be deemed justified using deadly force if they reasonably feared for their life. Just like the Zimmerman case. And then it's still controversial.
Dunedin, are you referencing my post? If so, I'm just telling you what was taught at my course. This fellow was all about the rules. Also, police have much better training than any civilian, so they should actually be held to a higher standard, shouldn't they? No doubt people do stupid/purposeful things to force the police officer's hand.
Heck, I was just thinking that maybe the other cop shooting the taser may have jolted her into squeezing trigger, which should not have been on the trigger.
Dunedin, are you referencing my post? If so, I'm just telling you what was taught at my course. This fellow was all about the rules. Also, police have much better training than any civilian, so they should actually be held to a higher standard, shouldn't they? No doubt people do stupid/purposeful things to force the police officer's hand.
Heck, I was just thinking that maybe the other cop shooting the taser may have jolted her into squeezing trigger, which should not have been on the trigger.
Quote:
Be held accountable? As others have already stated, if she is convicted, she can serve minimal time. However, this idea that if you make a bad judgement call and someone dies, you shouldn't be held accountable because you're a cop and your job is hard is utter bullshit. We give police officers great authority (even to the point of allowing them to take a life if necey), and in the same regards, they should be held to the highest of standards.
You don't think the collateral damage of this woman carrying around that she ended someones life the rest of her life and the fact her Career is over is not punishment. She made a judgement and killed someone because of it. I'm sure the Android Police force without emotions could handle that but this was a inexperienced officer who do to the training did the wrong thing.
Let talk about the victim too If he was on illegal drugs and was influenced then he put himself in danger when he got behind the wheel and left the safety of his house.
So yes he did put himself in Danger and was not just a stranded motorist. Ever see someone on PCP get Tazed I have in the ER and seen it not effect them at all.
There is your accountability.
Wait... so you're saying that the possible grief that this woman may feel should be punishment enough? For killing an innocent man who posed no threat to her (except for the one she created in her mind)?
Interesting perspective.
It never ceases to amaze me at the way it always seems to get turned on to the victim in these cases.
While on vacation this past summer in Florida I remember seeing a story about a kid down there. Good lookin, well built kid who worked out. Can't remember the age but the kid was at least in high school. So one day the kid's mom calls 911 and tells the dispatcher that her son is acting strange and she's concerned and he just left the house. The kid proceeds to walk down the street and sees a couple, husband and wife... mid-high 50's... sitting in their garage. The kid... high on PCP (or something like it)... proceeds to attack and kill the couple... and begins to eat the husband's face. Officer shows up to see this going on and tries to tase him. No effect. The kid gets in a knockdown-drag out fight in the garage with a few officers... dogs have little effect... and it takes multiple officers to finally subdue the kid.
He's sitting in a cell right now awaiting trial. But he's alive.
Guess what his race is?
It's when we see stories like that... and then stories like this... that frustrates many of us. This kid WAS high on something... DID actually kill someone... DID attack and fight several police officers... and lived to tell about it. This other guy MIGHT HAVE been high on something... didn't hurt anyone or committing any crime (at least not a violent one)... and at worst walked away and not heed orders... and he's dead.
But hey... I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. I'm also seeing some seemingly suggest that it's ok to shoot and kill someone (instead of tase... because you know... it might not work) if the officer even THINKS the other person MIGHT have a gun. This is a big reason why events such as this one will continue to happen.
The fact the he killed someone with his bare hands is irrelevant unless you believe police should become judge, jury, and executioners of crimes.
If we are OK with following any order they give to preserve ourselves, maybe we should take a look at the police institution itself.
narrative that this was simply a bias shooting, what would cause a Black police officer in Charlotte to shoot a Black citizen for no reason? Could it have something to do with the fact that while African Americans make up
only 13% of the population, they are responsible for 52% of gun deaths? That Black on Black gun deaths top 6,000 per year in this country? Is it any wonder that cops, Black or White, are fearful? Scott has shot a man in the past and served time for it as well as for assault with a deadly weapon. Of course this doesn't justify bad shootings by the police. But at some point, there needs to be some self examination in the Black community to assess why there is so much confrontational contact between the community and law enforcement.
It's not about race, it's about poverty. Poor people tend to be much more frequently involved with violent crimes. Now, ask yourself what percentage of white people find themselves below the poverty line, and what percentage of black and Hispanics do, and it'll all be clear.
narrative that this was simply a bias shooting, what would cause a Black police officer in Charlotte to shoot a Black citizen for no reason? Could it have something to do with the fact that while African Americans make up
only 13% of the population, they are responsible for 52% of gun deaths? That Black on Black gun deaths top 6,000 per year in this country? Is it any wonder that cops, Black or White, are fearful? Scott has shot a man in the past and served time for it as well as for assault with a deadly weapon. Of course this doesn't justify bad shootings by the police. But at some point, there needs to be some self examination in the Black community to assess why there is so much confrontational contact between the community and law enforcement.
It's not about race, it's about poverty. Poor people tend to be much more frequently involved with violent crimes. Now, ask yourself what percentage of white people find themselves below the poverty line, and what percentage of black and Hispanics do, and it'll all be clear.
I love that logic. So I guess every person that does something that ends another's life and regrets it should not serve time in prison? Absurd
In comment 13136953 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13136831 RC02XX said:
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Be held accountable? As others have already stated, if she is convicted, she can serve minimal time. However, this idea that if you make a bad judgement call and someone dies, you shouldn't be held accountable because you're a cop and your job is hard is utter bullshit. We give police officers great authority (even to the point of allowing them to take a life if necey), and in the same regards, they should be held to the highest of standards.
You don't think the collateral damage of this woman carrying around that she ended someones life the rest of her life and the fact her Career is over is not punishment. She made a judgement and killed someone because of it. I'm sure the Android Police force without emotions could handle that but this was a inexperienced officer who do to the training did the wrong thing.
Let talk about the victim too If he was on illegal drugs and was influenced then he put himself in danger when he got behind the wheel and left the safety of his house.
So yes he did put himself in Danger and was not just a stranded motorist. Ever see someone on PCP get Tazed I have in the ER and seen it not effect them at all.
There is your accountability.
Wait... so you're saying that the possible grief that this woman may feel should be punishment enough? For killing an innocent man who posed no threat to her (except for the one she created in her mind)?
Interesting perspective.
It never ceases to amaze me at the way it always seems to get turned on to the victim in these cases.
While on vacation this past summer in Florida I remember seeing a story about a kid down there. Good lookin, well built kid who worked out. Can't remember the age but the kid was at least in high school. So one day the kid's mom calls 911 and tells the dispatcher that her son is acting strange and she's concerned and he just left the house. The kid proceeds to walk down the street and sees a couple, husband and wife... mid-high 50's... sitting in their garage. The kid... high on PCP (or something like it)... proceeds to attack and kill the couple... and begins to eat the husband's face. Officer shows up to see this going on and tries to tase him. No effect. The kid gets in a knockdown-drag out fight in the garage with a few officers... dogs have little effect... and it takes multiple officers to finally subdue the kid.
He's sitting in a cell right now awaiting trial. But he's alive.
Guess what his race is?
It's when we see stories like that... and then stories like this... that frustrates many of us. This kid WAS high on something... DID actually kill someone... DID attack and fight several police officers... and lived to tell about it. This other guy MIGHT HAVE been high on something... didn't hurt anyone or committing any crime (at least not a violent one)... and at worst walked away and not heed orders... and he's dead.
But hey... I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. I'm also seeing some seemingly suggest that it's ok to shoot and kill someone (instead of tase... because you know... it might not work) if the officer even THINKS the other person MIGHT have a gun. This is a big reason why events such as this one will continue to happen.
White- 494
Black- 258
Hispanic- 172
Other- 38
Unknown- 28
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a discussion about why the police are on such edge when it comes to dealing with the African American community. Accepting the
narrative that this was simply a bias shooting, what would cause a Black police officer in Charlotte to shoot a Black citizen for no reason? Could it have something to do with the fact that while African Americans make up
only 13% of the population, they are responsible for 52% of gun deaths? That Black on Black gun deaths top 6,000 per year in this country? Is it any wonder that cops, Black or White, are fearful? Scott has shot a man in the past and served time for it as well as for assault with a deadly weapon. Of course this doesn't justify bad shootings by the police. But at some point, there needs to be some self examination in the Black community to assess why there is so much confrontational contact between the community and law enforcement.
It's not about race, it's about poverty. Poor people tend to be much more frequently involved with violent crimes. Now, ask yourself what percentage of white people find themselves below the poverty line, and what percentage of black and Hispanics do, and it'll all be clear.
I always hear black on black. Never hear white on white. It just needs to be neighbor against neighbor. The guy above me is right. There is a correlation between high unemployment and high crime rate.
White- 494
Black- 258
Hispanic- 172
Other- 38
Unknown- 28
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According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Postnoted in a new analysis, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
Any movement like that could cause a officer to believe his life is in danger. Remember they didn't know that he didn't have a gun until later.
Just my opinion.
It is a shame anyway you look at it.
Everyone should just listen to the police and do as they say, later if you feel they were wrong take them to court.
That way your alive, their alive.
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People shot and killed by police in 2015 by race
White- 494
Black- 258
Hispanic- 172
Other- 38
Unknown- 28
Link - ( New Window )
According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Postnoted in a new analysis, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
But then you are getting into the discussion some already touched on with economics and percentage of people involved in violent crimes.
The thing is police shoot unarmed whites also. They aren't targeting blacks.
The public doesn't deserve a police force.
Close Your Eyes (and count to fuck) - ( New Window )
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People shot and killed by police in 2015 by race
White- 494
Black- 258
Hispanic- 172
Other- 38
Unknown- 28
Link - ( New Window )
According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Postnoted in a new analysis, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
What could go wrong giving people huge authority with little reprecussions for bad actions?
The fact the he killed someone with his bare hands is irrelevant unless you believe police should become judge, jury, and executioners of crimes.
Let's see steve... you pull up on a kid who you see has killed two people and is eating the FACE off of one of them... and proceeded to fight other officers... and on the other hand you have a man who has a car broken down in the middle of the road and appears to be high on something but at no point makes a threatening move towards an officer... which one appears to be the more dangerous situation to you?
C'mon man.
But that is the million dollar question. The officers claim he did. And it is impossible to for certain either way from the video.
What could go wrong giving people huge authority with little reprecussions for bad actions?
It's a different standard. There are very few circumstances where a civilian can lawfully present a firearm. Within those circumstances criminal liability is limited, even in the case of a mistake or an accident.
You are the one who appears to have formed a conclusion based on limited evidence.
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but at no point makes a threatening move towards an officer
But that is the million dollar question. The officers claim he did. And it is impossible to for certain either way from the video.
No... they claim he simply reached in his car (which appears to might be a lie). They never claimed that he made any threatening move towards them.
I have no idea why the man was shot, but anytime a police officer's versions of events is so out of skew with video evidence, I hope there is punishment like this.
#dothoselivesmatter?
Oh... well that means it's ok I guess.
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Also there are plenty of times when cops shoot unarmed white men also. So based on your reasoning how do you explain that?
Oh... well that means it's ok I guess.
Of course not, but you inferred it was because of race.
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This is another example of why we always should wait until all the evidence is presented at a hearing or in this case a trial.
You are the one who appears to have formed a conclusion based on limited evidence.
Based on the video, I feel pretty confident about my conclusion so far. If I turn out to be wrong, I can admit that I was wrong based on the evidence that I'd seen at this point.
#dothoselivesmatter?
#dothoselivesmatter?
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In comment 13137151 steve in ky said:
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Also there are plenty of times when cops shoot unarmed white men also. So based on your reasoning how do you explain that?
Oh... well that means it's ok I guess.
Of course not, but you inferred it was because of race.
What other difference is there between the two? Age? Financial status? Those are more valid reasons in your eyes?
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In comment 13137184 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13137151 steve in ky said:
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Also there are plenty of times when cops shoot unarmed white men also. So based on your reasoning how do you explain that?
Oh... well that means it's ok I guess.
Of course not, but you inferred it was because of race.
What other difference is there between the two? Age? Financial status? Those are more valid reasons in your eyes?
Umm perceived threat?
The point is that if cops shoot BOTH black and white men and the common denominator rightly or wrongly is a perceived threat.
#dothoselivesmatter?
Yes, those lives matter. However, their circumstances don't further anyone's agenda.
See the post above. The police shot and killed 990 people in in 2015. Out of the tens of millions of interactions with civilians, that's everyone. One would think there were a lot more than that.
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Literally 15 shootings in Trenton over the weekend. One which left a pregnant mother dead???
#dothoselivesmatter?
Yes, those lives matter. However, their circumstances don't further anyone's agenda.
See the post above. The police shot and killed 990 people in in 2015. Out of the tens of millions of interactions with civilians, that's everyone. One would think there were a lot more than that.
If we are to believe that police are purposely targeting others then you would have to think that number would be much higher, no?
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In comment 13137189 steve in ky said:
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In comment 13137184 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13137151 steve in ky said:
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Also there are plenty of times when cops shoot unarmed white men also. So based on your reasoning how do you explain that?
Oh... well that means it's ok I guess.
Of course not, but you inferred it was because of race.
What other difference is there between the two? Age? Financial status? Those are more valid reasons in your eyes?
Umm perceived threat?
The point is that if cops shoot BOTH black and white men and the common denominator rightly or wrongly is a perceived threat.
I'm talking about in these two specific cases steve.
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Literally 15 shootings in Trenton over the weekend. One which left a pregnant mother dead???
#dothoselivesmatter?
As a general principle, people get upset by a killing of a group from the "Other" whether it be race, religion, nationality or in cases we are discussing the evil police. Not so much when killing is within the group.
While this is probably true, police shootings uncover another level of outrage than garden variety inter-racial killings or same race killings do because police are seen as an extension of the government.
that's why even though it was a black police officer in Charlotte people didn't care. With police from what I can tell there is no racial distinction of the officer.
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In comment 13137200 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13137189 steve in ky said:
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In comment 13137184 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13137151 steve in ky said:
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Also there are plenty of times when cops shoot unarmed white men also. So based on your reasoning how do you explain that?
Oh... well that means it's ok I guess.
Of course not, but you inferred it was because of race.
What other difference is there between the two? Age? Financial status? Those are more valid reasons in your eyes?
Umm perceived threat?
The point is that if cops shoot BOTH black and white men and the common denominator rightly or wrongly is a perceived threat.
I'm talking about in these two specific cases steve.
OK so if I post a link to two other cases where in one an unarmed white man was shot and in the other a black man was tazed does that prove anything?
I remember reading about two or three times this summer where an unarmed white man was shot by police. It happens, and the better question is about police training and if there can be improvements. Making claims based on only two cases and inferring it is about race in IMO unproductive.
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In comment 13137175 BlueHurricane said:
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Literally 15 shootings in Trenton over the weekend. One which left a pregnant mother dead???
#dothoselivesmatter?
As a general principle, people get upset by a killing of a group from the "Other" whether it be race, religion, nationality or in cases we are discussing the evil police. Not so much when killing is within the group.
While this is probably true, police shootings uncover another level of outrage than garden variety inter-racial killings or same race killings do because police are seen as an extension of the government.
that's why even though it was a black police officer in Charlotte people didn't care. With police from what I can tell there is no racial distinction of the officer.
The protesters should walk in an officers shoes for a day. Especially in the inner city locations.
But people did care. It was initially reported that it was a white officer.
I don't think it would've blown up if the first few hours weren't covered thinking this was a white officer shooting an unarmed black man.
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In comment 13137206 steve in ky said:
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In comment 13137200 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13137189 steve in ky said:
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In comment 13137184 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13137151 steve in ky said:
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Also there are plenty of times when cops shoot unarmed white men also. So based on your reasoning how do you explain that?
Oh... well that means it's ok I guess.
Of course not, but you inferred it was because of race.
What other difference is there between the two? Age? Financial status? Those are more valid reasons in your eyes?
Umm perceived threat?
The point is that if cops shoot BOTH black and white men and the common denominator rightly or wrongly is a perceived threat.
I'm talking about in these two specific cases steve.
OK so if I post a link to two other cases where in one an unarmed white man was shot and in the other a black man was tazed does that prove anything?
I remember reading about two or three times this summer where an unarmed white man was shot by police. It happens, and the better question is about police training and if there can be improvements. Making claims based on only two cases and inferring it is about race in IMO unproductive.
If you can do it, please feel free. But remember, it has to be under the same circumstances where the white person wasn't (or perhaps I should say shouldn't have been) a perceived threat and the black person was please.
Thanks!